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Last Minute Medicaid Planning Can Still Protect Assets · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzky. I'm Susan
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  Speaker 2: Powers of Financial Advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group and
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Todd Latsky, a partner with the law
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a Masters in taxation.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Welcome Todd, how are you today?
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I am great? Thank you what you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: I've got for the new month of August.
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  Speaker 2: I can I bring you new guys?
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  Speaker 3: Oh crazy too? Huh. Flying by Idaho, we got a
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court case there, you know, basically dealing with a
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  Speaker 3: situation where people got married, then they got divorced, then
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  Speaker 3: they gave their respective half interest and property that they
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  Speaker 3: owned together to their five kids and kept half and
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  Speaker 3: then went on medicaid. And then the question is whether
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  Speaker 3: those gifts were disqualifying transfers or not to the kids,
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  Speaker 3: and on and on we go. And it's not even
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  Speaker 3: so much about whether they get eligible for medicaid, although
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  Speaker 3: we'll factor that in here, but it's also just how
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  Speaker 3: do you plan with real estate? Don't don't just be
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  Speaker 3: given real estate away. Don't just be adding people's names
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  Speaker 3: to the accounts, folks, or to the to the deeds.
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  Speaker 3: Then we head over to Illinois. We got a Supreme
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  Speaker 3: Court decision there in a situation where you know, Sean
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  Speaker 3: in this case is a guardian for the brother and John,
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  Speaker 3: and John fights guardianship and then he doesn't want to
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  Speaker 3: he doesn't want to be declared incompetent. Then he ends
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  Speaker 3: up marrying Elizabeth, and the question is whether that marriage
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  Speaker 3: is actually void or void abinetio or you know, doesn't
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't exist. And then then he of course dies
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  Speaker 3: without a will, and so is she a spouse or
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  Speaker 3: not a spouse? Is she going to get the money? Both? Folks?
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  Speaker 3: This is all about not planning again, right, not planning?
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  Speaker 3: And you know what that does happen? I get it.
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  Speaker 3: And that's really what this guide this month is all about. Right.
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  Speaker 3: And it's not just for folks who didn't plan, because
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  Speaker 3: you could have planned and protected assets from the nursing
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  Speaker 3: home and still have assets that are at risk for
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  Speaker 3: the nursing home outside the trust. It happens all the time.
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  Speaker 3: But if you haven't planned, there's a lot more assets
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  Speaker 3: outside the trust that are at risk either way, folks.
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  Speaker 3: The guide this month is last minute Medicaid eligibility. How
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  Speaker 3: can you become eligible for medicaid? Even though you have assets?
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  Speaker 3: Assets are treated differently, right, They're accountable, there's countable assets,
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  Speaker 3: non countable assets. There's you know, married couples. How is
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  Speaker 3: a house treated if you're married versus single? How are
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  Speaker 3: joint bank accounts treated if you're married versus single? Versus
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  Speaker 3: investment accounts which are different than bank accounts versus life insurance?
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  Speaker 3: How does that work? What about qualified plan money, folks?
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  Speaker 3: Rental property another one all these assets are treated differently
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  Speaker 3: last minute for Medicaid eligibility. Some are accountable, some are not.
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  Speaker 3: Learn how to become eligible for Medicaid. Don't just write
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  Speaker 3: the check. If you're faced with nursing home admission, call
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: and get this guide eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com
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  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
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  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com brand new for
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  Speaker 3: the month. Let's go to where we go in Idaho first.
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  Speaker 3: So in this case, the situation is Robert owns property
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  Speaker 3: and deeds one half to his wife Juanita. Fine, he
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  Speaker 3: does that in nineteen ninety They're divorced in two thousand
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  Speaker 3: and five, at which time they prepared two deeds transferring
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  Speaker 3: their respective interests to themselves and to five kids. And
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  Speaker 3: they wrote them the deed for valuable consideration, but no
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  Speaker 3: money amount listed. No money amount, Okay, Well. Juanita then
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  Speaker 3: gets on Medicaid. From I guess nineteen ninety six to
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  Speaker 3: two thy fifteen, they owe one hundred and thirty seven
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  Speaker 3: thousand dollars to the state. Robert goes on Medicaid from
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  Speaker 3: six to eight owes about four thousand dollars to the state.
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  Speaker 3: And so the Department of Medicaid files a claim to
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  Speaker 3: have the deeds set aside because they were transferred without
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  Speaker 3: valuable consideration to the kids disqualifying transfer. And this is
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  Speaker 3: according to the State of Indiana rule or Idaho rules. Well,
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  Speaker 3: all the defendants agreed that they were transferred without consideration,
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  Speaker 3: but for valuable consideration, whatever that means. So the trial
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  Speaker 3: court granted the department's summary judgment deed and said motion
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  Speaker 3: and said the deed should be set aside, you know,
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  Speaker 3: stating that the claim was timely filed. Still, and the
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court agreed, saying it was timely filed by some
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  Speaker 3: four year catch all rule in Idaho and the provisions
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  Speaker 3: of that rule, but they didn't get caught by the
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  Speaker 3: ten year statute of limitations. So again, the whole point
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  Speaker 3: here is that these properties, this was a problem at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day for this medicaid situation. They
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  Speaker 3: somehow got on Medicaid. Maybe that house was a primary
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  Speaker 3: resident and it was non countable. I don't know how.
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  Speaker 3: But now they're saying we want to be paid back
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  Speaker 3: because they died, because these assets should have never been transferred.
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  Speaker 2: What a nightmare owning property with seven people in total.
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  Speaker 2: You're right, Susan, that's crazy looking at this saying what
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  Speaker 2: are you what are you doing here? So these are
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  Speaker 2: really some major problems that you should avoid. So let's
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  Speaker 2: just the lesson here is more.
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  Speaker 3: You know, let's just talk about how to deal with
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  Speaker 3: real estate in general. I don't care so much about
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  Speaker 3: the outcome of this case as I do what we
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  Speaker 3: can learn from it.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: The general rule is, you know, once you put a
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  Speaker 3: child or a grandchild's name on the deed, you've made
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  Speaker 3: a completed gift of that half or that portion that
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  Speaker 3: you give, whatever portion it is. You know, if it's
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  Speaker 3: done without consideration, and oftentimes you'll see that. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I give the property to my child for one dollar, right, Well,
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  Speaker 3: that's not valuable consideration, folks. That's a gift, so you
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  Speaker 3: have to be fair market value. Right, that's just a gift.
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  Speaker 3: They say, well, no, I sold it for a dollar.
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  Speaker 3: No you didn't. You gave it away, Okay. And from
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  Speaker 3: a medica So from a gift tax standpoint, certainly it's
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  Speaker 3: a taxable gift. Well, from a medicaid standpoint, it's a
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  Speaker 3: disqualifying transfer because you gave something away and got less
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  Speaker 3: than fair market value in return for what you gave away.
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  Speaker 3: So Medicaid says you're disqualified for five years or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: The penalty period is based on the calculation. Okay, So
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  Speaker 3: I don't love that. Now Here they're saying it was
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  Speaker 3: gray because they said it was done for valuable consideration,
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  Speaker 3: but no money was listed. I'm pretty sure with no
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  Speaker 3: money being listed, that's a gift. Yeah, I'm not sure
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  Speaker 3: you're going to get away with that. What's the lesson here?
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  Speaker 3: What do we learn? Well, first and foremost, Susan, you
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  Speaker 3: could say it in your sleep. Don't put kids' names
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  Speaker 3: on deeds.
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  Speaker 2: Don't give your stuff away during life. If your real estate,
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  Speaker 2: nothing good comes from that.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, now the problems begin, right, the kids own
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  Speaker 3: half in this case. If there's a divorce, half that risk, and.
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  Speaker 2: You got five kids, chances are one of.
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  Speaker 3: Them getting divorced five times the risk. Right, You're right,
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  Speaker 3: fifty percent people get divorced. You're going to have a problem.
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  Speaker 2: Two and a half divorces coming out.
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  Speaker 3: Get ready, buckle up, you know, say, say there's no divorce.
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  Speaker 3: Now you want to sell your property, Well, half the
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  Speaker 3: proceeds are going to go to the kids.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 3: Plus you know you need the kids permission to sell
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  Speaker 3: because their names on the deed.
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  Speaker 2: Five permissions. Let's just put that one there.
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  Speaker 3: You're right, Then you got tax problems, right. The kids
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  Speaker 3: don't live there, so they don't get a capital gains exclusion,
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  Speaker 3: so they're going to pay higher capital gains tax. You know,
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  Speaker 3: you get your two hundred and fifty or five hundred
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  Speaker 3: thousand dollars exclusion if you're single versus married, So you
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  Speaker 3: have that going for you. But then the problem is
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  Speaker 3: you only get half the money back, and you might
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  Speaker 3: need more money than that, even if the kids give
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  Speaker 3: you permission to buy your new home. And so now
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  Speaker 3: the kids have to hopefully give you back their money
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  Speaker 3: less the taxes they paid, and now they might have
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  Speaker 3: a gift tax on top of the capital gains tax
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  Speaker 3: that they paid because of the property you gave them.
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  Speaker 2: And Robert, we needed a divorce to begin with. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: let's muddy these waters a little bit more.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, I mean, this is just problematic, right. And then
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  Speaker 3: of course, if death occurs, the property would go to
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  Speaker 3: the kid, which might disinherit other kids because you only
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  Speaker 3: put certain kids. I don't know, folks, And from a
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  Speaker 3: medicaid standpoint, remember, even if you still owned half, that
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  Speaker 3: half is going to remain at risk, So it's not
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  Speaker 3: like you've really protected these assets. Now the kids are
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  Speaker 3: going to have to buy out your half to try
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  Speaker 3: and get the property to them if they want to
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  Speaker 3: keep it, So you've really not done a lot. And
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  Speaker 3: if you own it as tenants in common, the state
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  Speaker 3: can recover against your probate assets. So, folks, this is
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  Speaker 3: just a disaster. Right, put a trust together and you're
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  Speaker 3: not gonna have any of these problems, but you could
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  Speaker 3: be faced with last minute situations, and this guide will
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: help you understand what's countable, what's not, and how not
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  Speaker 3: to just write the check. Eight six six eight four
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  Speaker 3: eight five six, nine to nine.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back
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  Speaker 2: with more in just a few minutes. On the legal
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  Speaker 2: exchange with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Latsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Todd,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: where are we headed now?
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, We're gonna head over to Illinois. We got a
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court case going on over there. So in this case,
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  Speaker 3: the facts are that Sean is guardian for his brother.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Now keep in mind brother no wife kids here for
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: brother John as of May thirtieth, twenty seventeen. Well, John says, no,
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to have a guardian for me, So
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: he fights the guardianship and the court denies it, but
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: appoints Anthony, an attorney to help John with the fight
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to terminate it because he petitioned to sure now he
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: wants to fight it free Brittany to fight, Yeah, terminate
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: the guardianship. July twenty seventeen, John and Elizabeth get married,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: but they never tell Anthony. Anthony's the attorney. Anthony, how however,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: had on several occasions told Elizabeth not to marry because
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: the marriage would be voidable because of the guardians Yes. Well,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: on December eleventh, twenty seventeen, John dies, and of course
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the fight begins as to who gets what. Right. Well, John,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: as you might imagine, died without a will, so he
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: died intest eight. Now why does that matter? Well, John's
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: parents and the siblings brother are the only heirs or
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: no kids unless he's married. Right, then there's a spouse.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: So you see where this is headed.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It stops right there with Elizabeth.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Because we're going to argue. They're arguing that the marriage
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: is void abinetio, meaning it never existed. John lacked capacity
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: to consent to the marriage. Well, the trial court agreed
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: and said no marriage existed, an intestate succession statute applies
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: because there's no will. Good night Elizabeth, so could be
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: goodbye Elizabeth on this one. Well, Elizabeth appealed and the
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court reversed. I'm sorry the appellate court reversed the
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: trial court to say she's in. Say she's in, and
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court reversed the appellate court saying she's out.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: And their argument was, to become a putative spouse, you
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: would have to go through a ceremony, live with a person,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: and have good faith belief that you are married to
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: that person. Then you're a punitive spouse, which means you'd
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: apply until you gain knowledge you're not married. Well, the
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: rule here is she knew in advance of getting married
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: that it was voidable. The attorney told her, don't marry
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: this guy. You've got a problem. Therefore, there can be
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: no good faith belief that she was married, and therefore
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court agrees with the trial court. Elizabeth is out. Yeah,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: and might be the right decision. Don't really know on
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: this case, kind of you know, in my eyes, it's
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I get it. You know, were they married or not?
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Was he competent or not?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Was he didn't I'm going to need more details. I'm
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: gonna need like an ABC Movie of the Week kind
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: of details.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I think this is going anywhere, But but again, we
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: need to learn what we learn from this, because someone
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: died without a will. And this whole marital status is
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: so important when you're dealing with the intestate succession statute
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: because you didn't tell anybody where you want stuff to go. Folks,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: things happen when I say things happen. You can also
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: find yourself entering a nursing home or a family member
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: entering a nursing home, and you got to deal with
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: assets that are either outside of a trust if you've
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: done planning, because there's always some or a lot more
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: assets if you've done none. And this guide is the
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: last minute Medicaid eligibility guide, so that in essence, it says,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: don't write a check to the nursing home just because
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: you think you're not eligible for medicaid. The example in
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: this guide is two point four million dollar couple that
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: gets sick, no planning, yet we get them eligible for
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: medicaid last minute. That's because the guide talks about countable
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: assets versus non countable assets, rental property versus a house.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: A house whether you're married or single makes a difference.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Joint bank accounts versus investment accounts whether you're married or
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: single also makes a difference. How these assets are treated
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: are important, and it makes a difference as to whether
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: they're accountable or not countable. And then of course even
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: deals with annuities for assets that you have over the
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: financial eligibility limit, folks don't write the check. Get the
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: guide how to become Medicaid eligible last Minute eight six
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Exchange show dot com again eight six six eight four
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: And you can also go to Cushing Dolan PC for
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: more information on her Instagram page tips and lessons. Well,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: in this case, I think the biggest issue is not planning. Yeah,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: no planning, So it's a big, big problem here. Waiting
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: till you have questional capacity to plan, or to marry
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: for that matter, is a problem. Right, So don't put
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: your planning off. Now, let's explain what could have happened here.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: If they're married in this case, the spouse is likely
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: under the intestate succession statute because again no planning, no will,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: no nothing, likely she probably would have got all the
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: money because if the assets through the intestate succession statue
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: when they have no kids, remember they said he only
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: had parents and siblings. But if you had a spouse.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: The spouse would be first in line. I don't know
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: every state intestate succession statue, but I have a funny
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: feeling the spouse is going to be pretty high on
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: that Plinko board. So you know you at least want
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: to do a will to direct where your assets go
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: if you're going to get married, and do planning if
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: you get married. And John, you're getting married here, if
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: you're competent, please do planning after you're married to take
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: care of your spouse and to take care of your
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: rest of your family if you want you Okay, Now
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: remember the will here. Even if they did a will,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: it would at least direct where the assets go, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: it would not have avoided probate, it would not have
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: reduced the estate taxes, and it would not be protecting
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: the assets from the cost of nursing home care down
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: the line. Now, what about a guardianship. Well, if you've
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: not done any planning and you think it's too late
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: to do planning, it might not be. You can do
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: a guardianship. Right. If you have a guardianship, you could
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: have said, listen, I want them to appoint a guardian EDLTEM,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: which is an attorney to represent the ward and then
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the family which is also kind of working with the
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: father in this case or the parent, and say, look,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: we need to do an estate plan. Why and explain
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: to the guardian adem the benefits. I want to take
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: care of my spouse if he believes he's married. I
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: want to then provide how it goes to my children.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: There's a reason for it. And if the Guardian ad
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: litem agrees that this is a good reason to protect
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: the ward and foster the ward's wishes, then both the
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: estate planning attorney and the Guardian edlightem would go to
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: the lawyer and say, and maybe this case Anthony would
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: go to the judge and say, this is what we
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: want to do. Everybody agrees it's a good idea, and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: the judge would say, okay, do it. It's called a
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: petition to do an estate plan through the guardianship. So
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: you could have done that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think about Todd the without having
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: anything in place, and you know Elizabeth is out. Those
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: assets go up a generation. Mom, dad could be in
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: a nursing home. They could be at risk, you know,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: so you point you put that at risk, and then
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: it's got to be taxed on the way down again.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: You're absolutely right. There's so many things, so many layers
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: to think about here that if in this case you're right,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I can tell you that parents come before siblings yep
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: in most intestate succession statutes. So you're right. If if
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: she's out here, yep, the parents are in so the
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: parents would end up getting these assets. And you're right
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: if they're in a nursing home or they are old.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: These are assets that are now not only going to
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: be subject to the nursing home, but as you said,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: you're going to be taxed again on the way back
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: down to the sibling, in this case, the son or
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: daughter of that client. Folks, The goal here is get
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: your planning in order. If a trust was in place,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: he could have provided for the spouse and still preserved
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: assets for mom and dad and his siblings if he
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: wanted to. Or you can do it for your family,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: your kids, your kids from a second marriage, whatever. Take
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: care of the spouse, take care of the kids, folks.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Last minute Medicaid eligibility Guide brand new for the month.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Don't write to check to the nursing home. Learn what
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: can be done last minute to save assets eight six
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: six eight four, eight, five, six nine to nine or
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com and you can download the
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: guide right there.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: will answer your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you can't return home after rehab. Now you're faced with
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions, get the facts.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility, explains
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: common misconceptions about Medicaid, what assets may or may not
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: be at risk, and why the first answer you receive
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: isn't always your only option. Call right now eight six
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine and get
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: or you can request the guide online at Legal exchange
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: proceeding is paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal investment services. Cushing and
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: are not affiliated.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: The biggest retirement decision you make may have nothing to
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: do with your investments. This is Mike Armstrong from the
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Armstrong Advice Regroup. You worked hard preparing your finances for retirement,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: so take the time to think about whether your home
• 25:06
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• 25:09
  Speaker 4: house that's perfect today could become more work than it's
• 25:12
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• 25:15
  Speaker 4: or even being too far from the people and places
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: that matter. Our new guide, Navigating Retirement Housing Choices, walks
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: through the different stages of retirement, the housing options available,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: and the questions you should be asking now before a
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: decision becomes urgent. Get your free copy today by calling
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one. That's
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one, or
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: you can request the guide by visiting Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: advisory services for veterans. Every day is a commitment to service.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: This Veterans Day weekend, be part of something meaningful. That
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: that DAV five k Boston join the thousands of runners
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and walkers at Fort Independence on Castle Island for a
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: day of community remembrance and gratitude. Proceeds help fund the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: programs and services provided by the Disabled American Veterans Department
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: of Massachusetts. To register or make a donation, please visit
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: davfivek dot Boston. That's davfivek dot Boston. A single nursing
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: home stay could cost you more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a month. That's why so many families believe they'll have
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to spend almost everything before a loved one can qualify
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: for Medicaid. But that isn't always the case. Cushing and
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Dolan has created a new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: In it, you'll learn how Medicaid eligibility works, get information
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: about last minute planning options that may still be available,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the mistakes that could cost your family, and why acting
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: quickly could give you more options. Don't assume you have
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to lose everything to pay for long term care. Get
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: your free copy of our new guide called Last Minute
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Eligibility right now by calling eight six six eight
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine. That's eight six six
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six nine nine, or you can
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: request it online at Legal Exchange show dot com. That's
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan Into or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd of a few questions from listeners for you.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Bob and Hyennas Mass and Bob writs,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: can I buy my mother's house from her at a
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: discount and then let her live there rent free for
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the rest of her life in exchange for that discount?
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: She's having a hard time keeping up with the mortgage payments,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: and I'm in a position to help her out. The
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: sale would leave her with around one hundred thousand in
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: proceeds after she pays off the mortgage if she ends
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: up going into a nursing home. Would this be an
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: issue with Medicaid if she sells it to me at
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: a discount, even if it's in exchange for living rent free.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Hmm, So we're.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Looking for loophole here.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure we're going to find it. This
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: is a very interesting question because here's what you need
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: to think about in this case. You know, mom owns
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: a house. Yeah, let's just say it's it's a million
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: dollar home, and they sell it for six hundred thousand discount, right,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: and she gets six hundred so she technically got less
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: than fair market value up front.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Four hundred thousand less right upfront.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: So that's going to look like a part sale, part gift.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: A four hundred thousand dollars gift, right.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly that's how the IRS will treat it as
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: a part sale, part gift. You know the fact that
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: you're letting her live with you, well in her house,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: I guess since you own it. Yeah, now you know
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: rent free. I mean lots of times parents live with
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: family members and it's the rent is not an issue.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: It's not like the government imputes rent and says, oh,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: you can't live there for free, so therefore you have
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: rental income child. Oh yeah, they don't, you know, would
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: never know and would never really impute rent that way.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: So I'm not sure that the nursing home or the
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: state rather from a medicaid perspective, is going to allow that.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: They're not going to say that is value received for
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the house to eliminate the four hundred thousand dollars freebie
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: or gift, if you will, I don't think that that
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: would happen. So, I mean, you're welcome to try it,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: but I think in the back of your mind you're
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: going to need to know that there's a five year
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: waiting period.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: For that four hundred thousand, for.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: The four hundred thousand, right, not for the pace that
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: you bought.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: It'd be a penalty, right, that four hundred thousand would
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: be a penalty for the nursing home.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Right. This is what I think. That's what we say.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: It's a I think it's a it's a partially disqualifying transfer.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You know, if she walked away with a million, well
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: then that's okay. The nursing home says, well, we don't care.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: She's got million dollars, she's got the fair market value
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: in return.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: In fact, they're happy because they can easily attach the
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: million the million dollar money. Whereas if she actually had
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: a home and never sold it and ended up going
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: in the nursing home, and let's say it's a million dollars,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: that's still even if she's single. Even under the new
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: rules that are coming out in twenty twenty seven for medicaid,
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: which is the value of the house for disqualifying valuation
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: for a single person is going to drop to a
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: million nationwide. Right now, in Massachusetts it's much higher. Right,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: it's gone up over a million to make the house
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: for a single person non countable if you go over
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: that number. The house is countable if you're single. That
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: number is coming down after the BBBA.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I hadn't heard that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, twenty twenty seven, it's going to drop to a million,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: and so it'll be across the board. So even here,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: if it was a million dollars, even in the future,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: that house would be non countable. If she got sick
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: and went into the nursing home, yeah they'd put a
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: lean on it, but at least she'd be on Medicaid, right,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: so that would be. But with a million dollars, there's
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: no non countable house anymore, so you'd have to do
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: some other last minute technique to protect that. So I
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: don't love this.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: If he if she's having trouble paying the bills, would
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: he be better off just paying her bills for a
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: while and keeping the house. So that might be if
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: she's going to go to a nursing home, then they
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: could get it protected. Plus will be a stepar moving
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: into a nursing an irrevocable trust now and then yeah,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: maybe do.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: That, Yeah, maybe just do some planning. I mean, she
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't know she's going in the nursing home many times.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Soon she's just struggling financially. Yeah, plowed into the end
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: of the trust and help her pay some bills. Not
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: a bad idea at all, but folks, these are some
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: last minute things to think about. Right. A house is
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: different than money. Money. You have to deal with annuities
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: last minute to try to buy those rental property. How
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: are those treated? How is a vacation home treated? How
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: is the house treated? Married versus single? Different rules, folks,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: but they still could be non countable. How much money
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: can you keep as a community spouse versus a single person?
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: You know, folks, all this is in the guide. When
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: you're faced with entering a nursing home brand new for
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: the month, do not write the check. That's the message.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Look at this guide, call a lawyer, learn what can
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: be done last minute to protect assets that are still
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: at risk when you're entering a nursing home call and
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com. And you can also go
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: to Cushing Dolean PC the Instagram page for more information.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Tony and Scusset mass And
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Tony writes, my wife has been taking care of her
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: mom for a few years now. She moved in with
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: us a year ago and started renting out her home.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: She's now going into a nursing home. Can we save
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: her home if she's been living with us for the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: past year and it was not her primary residence.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Well, the answer is going to be yes. Oh so,
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: how's that?
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I enjoy that answer, and I thought for sure it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: was going to be It depends and.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: It's going to be yes. And again, this is why
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I want you folks to get this guy. This is
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: a great example. How is a rental Now she's converted
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: the home from a home to a rental property the
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: way I see it, and so either way depending on
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: the value. But in this case, because it's a rental
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: property and it's not your home, remember those valuational limitations
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I was talking about a minute ago and how they
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: might change in twenty twenty seven regarding the value of
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: your primary residence for a single person, which is what
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: we got here. You don't have that issue with a
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: rental property. With a rental property, there's no value limitation,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: but there's a regulation that says property generating income essential
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: to self support is non countable but leanable. Okay, but
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: non countable, which means it's not going to prevent Mom
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: from becoming eligible for Medicaid, even though she's done no
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: planning and has this nowntal property in her name. Not
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: going to be countable but leanable. I'll explain that, Okay,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: So I love this because it will help. Again, I don't.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: I think she should do advanced planning and of course
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: put the house in but if you know, if you
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: don't have that advanced planning done, this will prevent it
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: from becoming accountable asset. Now, when I say leanable, the
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: lean is actually your friend.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: How So, because it doesn't sound very friendly, it's not.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: But it's your friend here because if I can get
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: on Medicaid instead of paying sixteen seventeen thousand, I've seen
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: even more lately a month for the cost of the
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: nursing home, it's more like seven if you're on medicaid. Okay,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: So if I'm on Medicaid, I'm only bleeding down my
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: assets at seven thousand a month, right, And if I've
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: got Social Security and pension of say three combined.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Income in this case.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: And in this case, I've got rental income of maybe
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: two yep. Now I'm at five thousand a month coming
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: in of income of income, that means that goes to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: the nursing home yep, to pay the bill. And if
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: I'm on Medicaid and the private pay and the Medicaid
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: rate is only seven, that means the state is only
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: paying two.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: So twenty four grand a year is the lean you
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: except for one month of your private paying lean is
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: your friend.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you that is so darn important.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: So even though if she hadn't been renting it, you
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: could do the same process because it's her primary residence. Correct,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: if she'd been living there, she had been, But now
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: that she's renting it, same.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Thing, same thing, so you could have You could have
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: even turned the house into a rental if you wanted to,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: but you wouldn't have to. So while folks call and
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: get this guy the these are exactly the kinds of
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: answers you're gonna find in the guide. Call and get
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: it eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: to nine.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange show dot com and click
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: life stories. I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Armstrong Advisory Group. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: partner with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan, and
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: we'll be back with more after this quick break on
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: you can't return home after rehab. Now you're faced with
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions. Get the
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: facts Cushing and Dolan new guide, Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: It explains common misconceptions about Medicaid, what assets may or
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: may not be at risk, and why the first answer
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: you receive isn't always your only option. Call right now
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and get you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid eligibility.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at Legal exchange
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: preceding is paid for and the views expressed are solely those
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong Advisory
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: are not affiliated.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Retirement isn't just one stage of life. It changes over time,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: and your home should change with it. This is Mike
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. You may have heard
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: of the go go years, when you're traveling and enjoying
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: the freedom you've worked so hard to earn. Then come
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: the slowgo years, when convenience starts to matter more, and
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: eventually the Nogo years, when safety and support take center stage.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: Our new guide, Navigating Retirement Housing Choices, shows you how
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: different housing options can fit each stage of retirement, from
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: staying in your home to downsizing to exploring elder life communities.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: You'll learn what questions to ask before you're forced to
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: make a decision. Get your free copy today by calling
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one. That's
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one, or
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: request the guide at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: advisory services. A nursing home stake can cost more than
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: fourteen thousand dollars a month. Before you assume you have
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: to spend everything to qualify for Medigaid, Get the facts.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Call eight sixty six eight four eight five six ninet
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: nine for your free copy of Cushing and Dolan's new
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Guide Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility that's eight six six eight
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine, or requested online at
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange Show dot comed. He was paid for in
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the views expressed or solely those of Chrishian Dolan. Cushing
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: do not endorse each other and are not affiliated. For veterans,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: every day is a commitment to service. This Veterans Day weekend,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: be part of something meaningful at the DAV five K
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Boston join the thousands of runners and walkers at Fort
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Independence on Castle Island for a day of community remembrance
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: and gratitude. Proceeds help fund the programs and services provided
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: by the Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts. To register
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: or make a donation, please visit DAV five K dot Boston.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: That's DAV five K dot Boston. Your tune to the
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If you are a loved
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: one needs a nursing homestay, call Todd right now at
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and let him make sure your assets are protected. That's
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: eight sixty six eight for eight five six nine nine,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: or visit him online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legally Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers of Financial Advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd this month's guide, it's all
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: about last minute planning for the nursing home, applying for medicaid,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: seeing you know what assets are risk, what can be protected,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and so forth. I want to actually go through a
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: list of different types of assets and you can tell
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: us and I want to do married couples as well
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: as single individuals. Here what's it risk and how they're
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: all treated.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: All right, let's go through the list.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: How about the home. We talked about single people in
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the last the last segment. How is the home treated
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: for married couples?
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Well, certainly the biggest asset most people have times. Yeah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: all right, so the home for single you want.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: To married, Let's start with married pumples.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, start married. So with married couples, it becomes the
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: easiest asset to protect, believe it or not, because there's
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: really no rules.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Here's the only rule west of the homestead.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So if it's a house and it is your
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: primary residence, community spouse meaning you're living there, healthy spouse,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: you're living there, it is your primary residence, and it
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: is located in Massachusetts.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is specific for mass.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, located here. Yep, regardless of how much it's worth.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Remember the value.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Limitation have that threshold of a mammillion.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: We have no value limitation rule. So living in it
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: located in Massachusetts and no value limitation rule, it is
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: automatically non countable. Nice, but you can't stop there.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Well it's not only non countable, it's non leanable.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Oh it's a total freebee.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a protected doesn't matter. But if it's
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: own jointly, and I just want to go one step
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: further with your question. If it's own jointly, don't leave
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: it that way. When you're going through the application process, right,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: you have ninety days from the date of approval to
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: move that asset to the spouse in the home, the
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: community spouse living in the community one get the six
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: spouse's name off it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: How come, well, what if.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: What if the healthy spouse dies first?
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: That's happened. We've seen that happen time and time again.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Right, So the jointly held property would pass to the
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: surviving joint owner, which is the six spouse in the
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: nursing home. Now it's leanable.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Okay and at risk.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: So so you don't want to do that, and there's
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: rules that allow you to transfer assets to spouses with
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: no penalty period. So get the house in the name
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: of the community spouse one hundred percent and then plan
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: for her later.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Right, because this is not a lifetime freebie. Because if
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: the six spouse it's in the nursing home dies, now
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: she's a single person with a house, So how is
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: that treated.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Right, So that's why we don't want to stop. So
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: after eligibility is obtained for the six spouse. After after
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: it's obtained, that's important, and you've moved the house to
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: this healthy spouse one hundred percent, which that can be
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: done during the process. But even if you wait, you
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: have ninety days after the process is complete to get
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: the house over to the healthy spouse. Once it's in
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: the hands of the healthy spouse and six spouses approved
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid, you need to get back to your lawyer yep,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: and say I now want to do medicaid planning for
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: me as a single person. I want to take the
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: house and put it in a medicaid trust. I want
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: to take some of my money put it in a medicaid
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: trust because if I get sick in the future, I'm
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: now a single person and rules are different, and I
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: might not be able to dodge the bullet as easily
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: as I did. Then, folks, that's a everyday last minute technique.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: The goal of this trust, of this guide last minute
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Medicaid eligibility is simply to say, don't write to check
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: to the nursing home when you're going to be admitting
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: somebody to a nursing home. Learn what assets are protected,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Learn what's countable, what's non countable. Learn how married couples
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: are treated differently when you talk about houses, rental properties,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: life insurance. You know four to oh one k's iras,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: they're treated differently depending on married versus single, and are
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: non countable. And of course annuities help last minute to
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: save excess resources. So folks call and get the guide.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: It's brand new for the month eight six six eight
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: four eight five six ninety nine, or Legal Exchange Show
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. And
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: you can always go to Cushing Dolean pc Instagram page
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: for more.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: So let's say in this example, Todd, the healthy spouse
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't get the right guidance legally and she just leaves
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: the house in her name, and he in the nursing home.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: He passes away along the way, and now she's a
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: single person with a house not transferred to the trust,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: and she goes in the nursing home. How will they
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: then treat that house.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: So as a single person, assuming they've done no additional planning.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Right when you go into a nursing When you go
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: into a nursing home as a single person, the rules
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: governing the home are slightly differ. One still has to
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: be your primary residence when you were going in and
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: you left the house to go into a nursing home. Right,
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: if you leave your house and go to assisted living
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: for a year and then go to a nursing home
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: not your primary house, isn't you didn't leave your house
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: to go to a nursing home. That's going to make the.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: House completely you go back for a day.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know how that would work. I want to
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: loophole so one. As long as it was your primary residence. Yep,
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: then what happens is you got to go through this checklist.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Is there a value limitation?
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Right now. It's a little over a million dollars in
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: mass in twenty twenty seven, it's going to be a
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: million dollars locked in at a million. If it's a million,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: one million, two million, three, your house is automatically accountable.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: If you're single, hard stop. Don't bother applying. That's right,
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: don't bother applying. But so let's say it's your prime residence.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: It's under this valuation limitation number.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: Good. Then you go through this checklist. It's going to
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: be non countable if a spouse is living there. No,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: it's single. If you have a sibling that you own
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: it with jointly.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, the little wild card exception could.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Be non countable. Right, But most importantly, if you check
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: a box that says I intend to return home, even
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: though you might never return home, it's subjective.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: So as long as that box is checked on the
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: medicaid application, the.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Biggest thing is to check that box. There's no special
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: person living there, there's no disabled child, there's no exception
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: to the rule. And so you got to check that
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: box saying it was my home, it's under the threshold
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: of the valuational limitation, and I intend to return home.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: It's now non countable but leanable.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, And we know the leans are friends.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the leans are different, right, and so there's
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: no lean when you're married, but there is a lean
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: when you're single. But again it's still your friend. We
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: went through that example way better than just you know,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: selling the house and sure taking the money and then
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: dealing with money. Don't sell it.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: So those are primary residents. Is what if, say you
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: have a vacation home, is that treated the same way
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: with a lean.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: So a vacation home is a much bigger problem. So
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: a vacation home is not your home. And at least currently,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: it's not a rental essential to self support, not generating
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: any income essential to self support. It's just a piece
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: of property that you go hang out in. It will
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: be a hundred percent countable and will cause you the
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: inability to become eligible for medicaid. But don't panic. This
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: is why you get the guy, This is why you
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: learn about things. This is why you call your lawyer
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: when you go to a nursing home. The advice I
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: might give at that point is why not convert it
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: to a rental. You've not been renting it, rent it, Okay,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: then it would be considered and we've got to go
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: through how rental properties work, but then it would be
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: nonc countable. Folks, it's the end of the month, call
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: and get this guide right. It's last minute Medicaid eligibilities.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: The goal is don't write a check to the nursing home.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Learn what you can do last minute to protect assets
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: eight six six, eight four eight five six nine nine
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange show dot com again eight six six
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine to nine.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing in Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week. On the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: you can't return home after rehab. Now you're faced with
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions, get the facts.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility explains
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: common misconceptions about Medicaid, what assets may or may not
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: be at risk, and why the first answer you receive
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: isn't always your only option. Call right now eight six
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine and get
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at Legal Exchange
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: proceeding is paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: The biggest retirement decision you make may have nothing to
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: do with your investments. This is Mike Armstrong from the
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: Armstrong Advisory Group. You worked hard preparing your finances for retirement,
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: so take the time to think about whether your home
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: will still fit the life you want to live. The
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: house that's perfect today could become more work than it's
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: worth a few years from now. Stairs maintenance, a big yard,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: or even being too far from the people and places
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: that matter. Our new guide Navigating Retirement Housing Choices walks
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: through the different stages of retirement, the housing options available,
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: and the questions you should be asking now before a
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: decision becomes urgent. Get your free copy today by calling
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one. That's
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one, or
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: you can request the guide by visiting Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services. A nursing homestake can cost more than fourteen
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month. Before you assume you have to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: spend everything to qualify for Medicaid. Get the facts. Call
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninet nine
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: for your free copy of Cushing and Dolan's new Guide
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's eight six six eight four
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninet nine, or requested online at Legal
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: For veterans, every day is a commitment to service. This
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Veterans Day weekend, be part of something meaningful at the
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: DAV five K Boston. Join the thousands of runners and
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: walkers at Fort Independence on Castle Island for a day
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of community remembrance and gratitude. Proceeds help fund the programs
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: and services provided by the Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: To register or make a donation, please visit DAV fivek
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: dot Boston. That's DAV five k dot Boston.