Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #686 Extra Curricular Activities 101

Transcript

#686 Extra Curricular Activities 101 · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, I think that there's an argument we made for
0:12
Speaker 2: encouraging kids to persist at something that we know that
0:15
Speaker 2: they'll be grateful for that they've expressed interest in and
0:18
Speaker 2: love for previously. If we can just get the activity right.
0:22
Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, My mum
0:25
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:26
Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy
0:28
Speaker 2: Families dot com dot a U. Season two of Parental
0:30
Speaker 2: Guidance coming soon to Channel nine. We can't wait to
0:35
Speaker 2: share everything great about the brand new season of Parental
0:39
Speaker 2: Guidance that's coming up. I mean with Kylie, my wife
0:42
Speaker 2: and mum to our six children, our six daughters, Kylie.
0:45
Speaker 2: As we start off the school year, parents are enrolling
0:47
Speaker 2: their kids in all kinds of activities, extracurricular stuff. God
0:51
Speaker 2: enrich them. Got to help them to have fancy and
0:53
Speaker 2: fulfilled lives doing all those things that we know are
0:55
Speaker 2: going to make such a difference in their lives and
0:58
Speaker 2: their wellbeing. Sport, music, art, drama, all that kind of stuff.
1:03
Speaker 2: And it's around about this time that we usually have
1:05
Speaker 2: questions from parents who say, how do we how do
1:08
Speaker 2: we get this right? Like? How many activities should they
1:11
Speaker 2: be doing? And what if they don't want to do
1:13
Speaker 2: the activity that we know that they should be doing,
1:15
Speaker 2: or what if they start an activity that they really
1:17
Speaker 2: want to do and they want to quit after they've
1:19
Speaker 2: only been doing it for one or two weeks? How
1:20
Speaker 2: do we figure this out? I thought that today would
1:22
Speaker 2: be a good day to answer those questions. I think
1:26
Speaker 2: I'm going to start with the first obvious one, how
1:29
Speaker 2: many extracurricular activities should our kids be doing? I don't
1:33
Speaker 2: know if you and I agree on this or not.
1:35
Speaker 2: We seem to have a little bit of conflict in
1:36
Speaker 2: our relationship about this one. What's your thought.
1:40
Speaker 3: Some of the early days, we ca with this great plan. Well,
1:42
Speaker 3: at least we thought it was great because we had
1:44
Speaker 3: never done it, that the children would have two extracurriculars
1:48
Speaker 3: each until you realize that six times two equals twelve.
1:53
Speaker 2: And that's a recipe for bankruptcy. That not only that,
1:57
Speaker 2: an exhaustion.
1:58
Speaker 3: Time poor, like how do you physic do it all?
2:00
Speaker 3: And then you're dragging X amount of kids along to
2:04
Speaker 3: watch one child explore and enjoy their experience. Well, everyone
2:08
Speaker 3: else is moaning and groaning because the last thing they
2:09
Speaker 3: want to do is sit in a waiting room.
2:11
Speaker 2: So we decided that we're going to have the kids
2:13
Speaker 2: do one musical instrument and one sport, and so we
2:17
Speaker 2: chose swimming because we want the kids to be safe
2:19
Speaker 2: in the water, and they could choose their musical instrument,
2:21
Speaker 2: until we realized that was too hard, and so we
2:22
Speaker 2: basically booked them all into swimming lessons on the same
2:25
Speaker 2: day at the same time, which was brilliant, And we
2:27
Speaker 2: booked them in for music lessons with the same teacher
2:30
Speaker 2: one after the other, until we realized that doesn't work
2:34
Speaker 2: very well at all. And then we had one child
2:36
Speaker 2: that didn't really want to learn that instrument. She wanted
2:38
Speaker 2: to learn something else. And we had kids that were
2:40
Speaker 2: starting to get better at swimming because they were bigger
2:41
Speaker 2: and older, and they had to go to the squad
2:43
Speaker 2: instead of the swimming lessons, and it started to fall apart.
2:47
Speaker 2: It got really really messy.
2:50
Speaker 3: Well, and your way of seeing things is, if the
2:53
Speaker 3: kids want to do it, let them do it well.
2:55
Speaker 2: I want them to have enriching experiences, even if it's
2:57
Speaker 2: going to break me financially well it's.
3:00
Speaker 3: Breaking you financially but me physically because you're often not
3:04
Speaker 3: home and I'm the one trying to navigate the challenges
3:07
Speaker 3: of a very busy schedule.
3:09
Speaker 2: And then that means that we come home late and
3:11
Speaker 2: there's no dinner organized, and everyone's tired, and like, it's
3:15
Speaker 2: really really hard to get this right. So for the
3:19
Speaker 2: average parent who's only got one or two kids and
3:21
Speaker 2: maybe three, I still think that the idea of having
3:25
Speaker 2: them involved in one sporting activity for health and teamwork
3:29
Speaker 2: and fitness and all that kind of stuff, I think
3:31
Speaker 2: that's a really good thing to do. And I really
3:33
Speaker 2: believe that getting them involved in some kind of art,
3:36
Speaker 2: some kind of music, some sort of drumma, something creative, creative, Yeah,
3:41
Speaker 2: I think there's value in that, because if you're going
3:43
Speaker 2: to do a sport, it's usually quite structured. It doesn't
3:46
Speaker 2: necessarily always lend itself to a whole lot of creativity
3:49
Speaker 2: and a whole lot of strategic thinking. You get in
3:52
Speaker 2: the pool and you swim as fast as you can,
3:53
Speaker 2: or you get in the bike and you ride as
3:54
Speaker 2: fast as you can, or you get on the field
3:56
Speaker 2: and you run as fast as you can. And I
3:58
Speaker 2: don't want to be too reduction. I know that some
4:00
Speaker 2: people who are big sporting of Fishnado are going to
4:02
Speaker 2: be upset about what I just said, But as a
4:04
Speaker 2: general rule, I'm being fairly simplistic. Whereas when the kids
4:06
Speaker 2: are learning music, they're learning to be creative there, or
4:11
Speaker 2: if they're doing drama or art, they're expanding the repertoire of.
4:16
Speaker 3: Using different sides of your brain different entirety.
4:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:18
Speaker 2: Completely, So I reckon that that's a really good idea.
4:21
Speaker 2: But we've got to go deeper than that. We've got
4:23
Speaker 2: to explore other ways to help our kids to have
4:27
Speaker 2: that enrichment and what is the right amount, how.
4:30
Speaker 3: Are we supposed to do it?
4:31
Speaker 2: We also need to talk about when to start. I mean,
4:34
Speaker 2: I talk to some parents who've got their kids into
4:36
Speaker 2: tutoring and into different sports and maybe dancing or gymnastics
4:41
Speaker 2: or whatever it might be from a really, really young age.
4:44
Speaker 2: So I reckon, when it comes to kids and extracurricular activities,
4:48
Speaker 2: there are some things that they want to start as
4:50
Speaker 2: soon as possible for safety, such as swimming. So we
4:53
Speaker 2: want to teach our kids to swim full stop, endo story.
4:55
Speaker 2: But in terms of more organized kinds of sports and activities,
4:59
Speaker 2: more structured activity. I don't think that there's really good
5:01
Speaker 2: research evidence to support getting our kids involved in that
5:03
Speaker 2: until they're at least eight, nine, maybe even ten years
5:06
Speaker 2: of age, perhaps even a little bit older.
5:08
Speaker 3: Again, and we've watched this time and time again every
5:11
Speaker 3: now and again because we've got so many children. The
5:13
Speaker 3: little kids have seen their big sisters involved in things
5:15
Speaker 3: and want to get involved, and it's just never been
5:19
Speaker 3: a positive experience while they're.
5:21
Speaker 2: Young, right, So research on kids and competitiveness shows that
5:25
Speaker 2: that's not in their best interests. So I think we
5:27
Speaker 2: want to hold off on anything competitive for as long
5:30
Speaker 2: as possible. I don't know. Some parents say, yeah, but
5:31
Speaker 2: my kids are going to have the edge, they're going
5:33
Speaker 2: to be so much better at it if they start younger. Again,
5:36
Speaker 2: the research evidence doesn't support that they may develop a
5:39
Speaker 2: reasonable level of competence. But if you get a kid
5:41
Speaker 2: playing let's say ball sport from the age of eight,
5:44
Speaker 2: and another kid starts at eleven, within a year or two,
5:47
Speaker 2: that eleven year old will have caught up without any
5:49
Speaker 2: problems at all. You look at someone like Roger Federer,
5:51
Speaker 2: one of the.
5:51
Speaker 3: Well it's life experience, right right, they're much better equipped
5:55
Speaker 3: with their hand eye coordination. They're more physically developed and
6:03
Speaker 3: have better strength and coordination. There's just there's so much
6:06
Speaker 3: more available to them because they're actually older.
6:10
Speaker 2: And so speaking of the older thing, Federer's mum was
6:13
Speaker 2: a tennis coach. He hated tennis. He didn't want to
6:15
Speaker 2: play tennis. He wanted to be involved in all sorts
6:18
Speaker 2: of other sports so long as it wasn't tennis. And
6:20
Speaker 2: it wasn't until he was in his late teams that
6:23
Speaker 2: he decided that he wanted to give tennis a shot.
6:25
Speaker 2: And we all know how that turned out. He's essentially
6:27
Speaker 2: the greatest tennis player in the history of the world.
6:30
Speaker 2: A really really incredible phenomenon, Roger Federer, and he didn't
6:34
Speaker 2: start until late. We have other incredible success stories like
6:37
Speaker 2: Patrick Johnson, the sprinter who started in his twenties and
6:41
Speaker 2: went on to win gold medals for Australia.
6:43
Speaker 3: So I think it comes down to motivation exactly. If
6:45
Speaker 3: our children actually want to participate and want to do
6:49
Speaker 3: well at something, then they're motivated to do it and
6:51
Speaker 3: regardless of their age, they're going to move forward in
6:54
Speaker 3: really positive and strong ways.
6:56
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's do a quick stop down here and
6:58
Speaker 2: just summarize what we've talked about. First off, in terms
7:01
Speaker 2: of getting kids involved, yes, but wait until they're older,
7:05
Speaker 2: especially for structured and competitive activities.
7:08
Speaker 3: So if you want to start saving from an.
7:10
Speaker 2: Early number two in terms of how many activities, our
7:19
Speaker 2: recommendation is that you do as many activities as you
7:22
Speaker 2: can comfortably both afford from a time perspective and from
7:26
Speaker 2: a financial perspective.
7:27
Speaker 3: So we totally disagree on this, and I'm going to
7:29
Speaker 3: say less is more.
7:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do a disagree. I just want the kids
7:33
Speaker 2: to do as many things as they can because they
7:35
Speaker 2: want to do them. But you've got to be able
7:37
Speaker 2: to afford it, and you've got to have the time
7:38
Speaker 2: and capacity to run them around and get them to
7:40
Speaker 2: all the places they're supposed to be. And that's a
7:43
Speaker 2: little bit of a challenge.
7:45
Speaker 3: You spend your whole life in a car instead of
7:48
Speaker 3: actually allowing them to just live their lives.
7:51
Speaker 2: The third thing that we're going to touch on that
7:54
Speaker 2: I think we will agree on is that we want
7:56
Speaker 2: to follow our children's interests. So we've got that.
8:00
Speaker 3: You've got it right. When your kid is sitting in
8:02
Speaker 3: the backseat literally three weeks after season's finished and they're
8:06
Speaker 3: asking you when the next season is.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, when you're saying, hey, it's time to go,
8:10
Speaker 2: and they say, I know, I'm already in the car
8:12
Speaker 2: waiting because they're excited for it. They're dressed, they're ready
8:15
Speaker 2: to go. So we've got one of our kids doing acro.
8:18
Speaker 2: I don't even know what acro actually is, but I
8:21
Speaker 2: drop her off every week and she loves it so much,
8:26
Speaker 2: like she just loves it. And I never really wanted
8:30
Speaker 2: to have a child doing whatever this acro thing is.
8:32
Speaker 3: And it's called acrobatics. Mayni.
8:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what it is, but I don't really
8:37
Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't actually get it.
8:39
Speaker 3: She's on the silks, and she's on lyra, and she's
8:41
Speaker 3: on the hoop and she is in heaven. Yeah. Yeah,
8:45
Speaker 3: doesn't have a clue what she's doing at this point.
8:47
Speaker 3: She literally has done twelve weeks. But there was a
8:50
Speaker 3: demonstration in the shopping center the other day when we
8:52
Speaker 3: went to buy our school shoes and it just stopped
8:55
Speaker 3: her in the tracks. Yeah, these girls are amazing what
8:58
Speaker 3: they can do. And I just sat and I thought,
9:00
Speaker 3: if that was my kid, I would be so impressed.
9:03
Speaker 2: Whereas swimming. I mean, we are dragging these kids out
9:06
Speaker 2: the door and saying you need to get in the car,
9:08
Speaker 2: you need to swim. We live near the beach, we
9:09
Speaker 2: spend time at the ocean. Swimming is compulsory and they're like,
9:12
Speaker 2: no bird, swim like it's a It's such hard work
9:16
Speaker 2: to get them doing that.
9:16
Speaker 3: It didn't used to be, but unfortunately because of the
9:19
Speaker 3: moves that we've had, we haven't had consistency with the coach.
9:22
Speaker 3: It makes such a difference.
9:24
Speaker 2: So that brings me on next point, and that is relationships.
9:27
Speaker 2: Relationships really matter. So you don't just follow your kids' interests,
9:30
Speaker 2: but you also follow their relationships. If all of their
9:33
Speaker 2: friends are playing a sport, they're much more likely to
9:36
Speaker 2: want to play that sport.
9:38
Speaker 3: Well, Emily had no interest in a team sport whatsoever,
9:41
Speaker 3: but one of her little friends was putting together a
9:44
Speaker 3: team for oz tag and asked if Emily wanted to
9:46
Speaker 3: join in, and Emily kind of shrugged his shoulder and said, yeah, okay.
9:50
Speaker 3: But three weeks after season's over, she's like, Mum, when's
9:54
Speaker 3: Ostag gone again? I really want to play. She's missing
9:57
Speaker 3: the connection with her friends and she's missing the opportunity
10:00
Speaker 3: to learn and grow. She knows that she's not particularly
10:03
Speaker 3: good at it, she's only had one season, but she's
10:06
Speaker 3: so excited about going back. Yes, and that is perfection
10:10
Speaker 3: in my books.
10:11
Speaker 2: Okay, great, So we've got to follow their interests, we've
10:14
Speaker 2: got to follow the relationships. Let's change it up just
10:18
Speaker 2: a little bit. What about when they want to quit?
10:22
Speaker 3: So this was really really hard for me on the
10:24
Speaker 3: early days, especially when budgeting was so tight. It was
10:28
Speaker 3: hard for me to recognize that we've just spent two
10:30
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty dollars on their uniforms and their sign up,
10:33
Speaker 3: and now they don't want to do it anymore.
10:34
Speaker 2: Do you remember when I was riding my bike on
10:37
Speaker 2: the velodrome, I was competing, and our eldest daughter, Chanelle, said,
10:40
Speaker 2: I want to ride with you. So we got her
10:42
Speaker 2: involved in the club a little bit, and we went
10:44
Speaker 2: out and we bought her a bike, and to buy
10:46
Speaker 2: when you ride on the velodrome competitively, you can't just
10:49
Speaker 2: ride any old bike. You have to have a track bike, which.
10:51
Speaker 3: Can't be ridden any other way. It's only for the track.
10:55
Speaker 2: So this is a bike that has no brakes and
10:56
Speaker 2: it's a bike that has a fixed gear. So if
10:58
Speaker 2: the wheels are spinning, the pedals to spinning and you
11:01
Speaker 2: can't stop unless you're just sort of pushing gently against
11:04
Speaker 2: the pedals to slow it down until eventually you stop.
11:06
Speaker 2: It's a specialized piece of bicycling equipment only for the velodrome.
11:11
Speaker 3: So went, now, you got to buy the Likra.
11:12
Speaker 2: You got to buy the Likera, got to buy the pedal,
11:15
Speaker 2: like the shoes that clip into the pedals, and the
11:17
Speaker 2: gloves and the helmet like. So we were poor UNI
11:20
Speaker 2: students the time. I think I had spent maybe eleven
11:23
Speaker 2: hundred twelve hundred dollars on setting her up, plus she
11:25
Speaker 2: had to become a member of the club and all
11:27
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. It was a huge sacrifice to
11:30
Speaker 2: get her recycling. But she was young, and she was
11:33
Speaker 2: competing against maybe three or four other girls who had
11:36
Speaker 2: all been cycling their dads had gotten the into cycling
11:38
Speaker 2: at about the age of five, and they were.
11:40
Speaker 3: It wasn't a particularly big club, so she didn't have
11:43
Speaker 3: anyone her age or at her level.
11:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was like, she was the worst by
11:48
Speaker 2: a mile. She was about half the speed of everyone else.
11:51
Speaker 2: It was embarrassingly awfully horribly bad for her, and after
11:54
Speaker 2: three or four weeks she said that I don't want
11:56
Speaker 2: to do this anymore. And I remember just going, don't.
12:02
Speaker 2: You've got to keep trying. You've got to practice, Like
12:04
Speaker 2: the more you practice, the better you'll get, and soon
12:06
Speaker 2: you'll be able to And I was doing all the
12:07
Speaker 2: motivational talks and I was doing the big pump up speeches.
12:10
Speaker 2: I was like, just come along for one more week,
12:11
Speaker 2: Let's just give it one more go. And eventually we
12:15
Speaker 2: were having major conflict over it, and within about six
12:18
Speaker 2: weeks she was out. She was completely fully out. We
12:22
Speaker 2: spent all that money and eventually we sold everything and
12:26
Speaker 2: we got a good portion of the money back, but
12:28
Speaker 2: not all of it. And it was a really expensive
12:30
Speaker 2: and painful exercise. But sometimes you've just got to let
12:32
Speaker 2: them work it out for themselves.
12:34
Speaker 3: In the early days, it was actually really really hard
12:37
Speaker 3: to let them change their mind because of that financial outlay.
12:42
Speaker 3: And for some families where you're stuck in that place
12:44
Speaker 3: and it is it's really hard. But what we've recognized
12:47
Speaker 3: as we have gotten to a much more comfortable position
12:51
Speaker 3: financially firstly, but secondly, have alone so much as parents
12:55
Speaker 3: through this process is that if we can work with
12:59
Speaker 3: our children's in trists and their relationships and their skill
13:03
Speaker 3: set their strengths, life is actually great. They enjoy life more,
13:10
Speaker 3: there's more energy around everything that they're doing, and what
13:13
Speaker 3: they bring back to us is better. And so sometimes
13:18
Speaker 3: it can be really really frustrating to sign up and
13:22
Speaker 3: then have them pull out. But you don't know what
13:26
Speaker 3: you don't know. Our kids don't know that they're not
13:29
Speaker 3: going to enjoy X, Y, and Z unless they give
13:32
Speaker 3: it a go. And if we have the capacity to
13:35
Speaker 3: allow them to actually experience and experiment, then they're better
13:41
Speaker 3: for it.
13:43
Speaker 2: The last point that I want to make as we
13:45
Speaker 2: wrap this up is every now and again, you'll have
13:47
Speaker 2: a child who doesn't want to do something, and I
13:50
Speaker 2: think that it's okay to push a little bit now
13:52
Speaker 2: and then, even if they don't have the relationships or
13:54
Speaker 2: the competence and skills, and they don't even necessarily have
13:57
Speaker 2: the interest, and that's because of time, they will be grateful.
14:02
Speaker 2: The case in point is music lessons. So at the moment,
14:05
Speaker 2: we're dealing with a twelve year old who's saying, I
14:07
Speaker 2: just don't want to do it. I don't want to
14:08
Speaker 2: learn an instrument. I don't like this instrument. I don't
14:11
Speaker 2: like that instrument. I don't enjoy it. I don't want
14:12
Speaker 2: to be doing it at all. She's happy to sit
14:14
Speaker 2: on the piano and bang out some chords and sing
14:16
Speaker 2: at the top of a voice, but she doesn't want
14:17
Speaker 2: to do the work. She doesn't want to exercise that
14:21
Speaker 2: conscientiousness that's required to practice and learn the skill. She
14:26
Speaker 2: doesn't want to literally do the work. And what I'm
14:30
Speaker 2: finding in my conversation with her is I need you
14:33
Speaker 2: to trust me on this. One day, I think you're
14:36
Speaker 2: going to be really glad that you've persisted with it,
14:38
Speaker 2: that you're stuck with it, and that you made it happen,
14:40
Speaker 2: because one day you're going to be like your big
14:41
Speaker 2: sister and you're going to be able to pick up
14:43
Speaker 2: the guitar and go down to the street corner and
14:45
Speaker 2: busk and make some money. Or you're gonna be able
14:47
Speaker 2: to sit around with some friends and play the piano
14:48
Speaker 2: and all singing. Or you'll be able to do these things,
14:51
Speaker 2: and you'll be so grateful for that skill, for that capacity,
14:54
Speaker 2: for that knowledge that you've accrued over the years, that
14:57
Speaker 2: we've paid all that money for and so we've got
15:00
Speaker 2: to tread carefully and we shouldn't be forcing our kids.
15:04
Speaker 2: But I do think that there's an argument who made
15:06
Speaker 2: so long as our motivations are right, we're not doing
15:08
Speaker 2: it because it's about us and our ego. I think
15:11
Speaker 2: that there's an argument to be made for encouraging kids
15:14
Speaker 2: to persist at something that we know that they'll be
15:16
Speaker 2: grateful for that they've expressed interest in and love for previously,
15:20
Speaker 2: if we can just get the activity right.
15:23
Speaker 3: And I guess in line with that is an acknowledgment
15:25
Speaker 3: that timing is really important. So Emily wanted to do gymnastics,
15:31
Speaker 3: but she wanted to do it when she was about six,
15:33
Speaker 3: and against all of our conversations and considerations around starting
15:38
Speaker 3: children that early, recognizing that she's a ridiculously busy kid, yeah,
15:42
Speaker 3: we decided we'd give it a go. And it was
15:44
Speaker 3: a disaster. It was an absolute disaster. She lasted two
15:47
Speaker 3: lessons and literally ran out there of the second lesson
15:51
Speaker 3: screaming at the top of her lung saying, I hate this,
15:53
Speaker 3: I'm never coming back.
15:55
Speaker 1: Right.
15:56
Speaker 3: But two years.
15:57
Speaker 2: Later, yeah, yeah, as an eight year old, rather than.
16:00
Speaker 3: And recognizing and learning more about her and how she works,
16:04
Speaker 3: checking in and realizing that gymnastics is quite structured but
16:08
Speaker 3: acro is not. And so I put her into ACRO
16:11
Speaker 3: classes as an eight year old instead of a six
16:14
Speaker 3: year old, less structure, and her body is just in heaven.
16:20
Speaker 3: She is loving it. We go to the shopping center
16:23
Speaker 3: and I have to stop her from doing handstand. She
16:26
Speaker 3: cartwell's in the corridors of the shopping center.
16:30
Speaker 2: So now we've just got to work out what musical
16:31
Speaker 2: instrument she's going to play, because she's old enough for that,
16:33
Speaker 2: and I.
16:33
Speaker 3: Think she really wants to play the violin.
16:35
Speaker 2: Oh no, We really hope that this has been a
16:38
Speaker 2: helpful podcast. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin
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Speaker 2: and Rulin from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
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Speaker 2: The take home message get the kids involved in extracurricular
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Speaker 2: activities if you can afford and you've got the time,
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Speaker 2: But let their interests and their relationships be the motivation.
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Speaker 2: Push them now and then if you know better, but
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Speaker 2: please make sure it's not about your ego, Please make
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Speaker 2: sure it's really about them, and wait until old enough.
17:01
Speaker 2: Can't wait to share more with you on The Happy
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Speaker 2: Families podcast tomorrow as we go back to an interview
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Speaker 2: from our Little People Big Feelings Conversation Our Summit I
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Speaker 2: Should Say, with Reenie Jane of Gozen Little Kids, Big Feelings.
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Speaker 2: If that's what you're struggling with, you don't want to
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Speaker 2: miss tomorrow's podcast episode and for more information, please visit
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Speaker 2: us at Happy families dot com Donau