Latest / This Week On ICE / New Asylum Ruling Shakes Trump Policy, an Adelanto Transparency Battle, and 1k+ Afghans in Limbo

Transcript

New Asylum Ruling Shakes Trump Policy, an Adelanto Transparency Battle, and 1k+ Afghans in Limbo · This Week On ICE

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to This Week On ICE for April 29th, 2026.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kelly Kimball.
• 0:13
  This week is really special because we have a new co-host for a
• 0:16
  little bit while
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Matt is traveling.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Our co-host is none other than Ben Camacho.
• 0:22
  He is a multi-award winning investigative journalist and
• 0:24
  documentary photographer.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: In 2022 and 2025,
• 0:28
  Ben's reporting helped expose a police gang and forced the city
• 0:31
  of Glendale to
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: cancel a contract with ICE.
• 0:34
  And the Los Angeles Press Club honored his reporting project
• 0:36
  called The Blue Hand,
• 0:38
  which is a deep dive investigation into an LAPD shooting and
• 0:41
  abusive search warrant
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: processes with the Charles M.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Rapalye Investigative Journalism Award.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ben, I'm so happy to have you co-piloting the show with me.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 0:52
  Kelly thank you so much when you first reached out about this I
• 0:54
  was just elated to
• 0:56
  hear from you of course but also that we can report on such an
• 1:01
  important topic
• 1:02
  together thank you to you and Matthew as well oh it's so nice
• 1:05
  of you thank you so
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: much well why don't you go ahead and kick off the show for us
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: We definitely got a few really awesome stories that we'll get into.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: The first one,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: last Friday,
• 1:16
  we had the Appeals Court block President Trump's executive
• 1:20
  order suspending asylum
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: across the U.S.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: southern border.
• 1:25
  The executive order was a key pillar of the president's plan to
• 1:27
  crack down on
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: immigration and migration abroad,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: and that pillar has now toppled.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So Kelly,
• 1:34
  I definitely want to hear from you breaking down what this
• 1:37
  means and also talking
• 1:38
  about other consequential developments that you're seeing at
• 1:41
  the southern border,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: including how expansions of the border wall and how those are reportedly
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: encroaching on an indigenous community over there.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Next up,
• 1:53
  over the weekend ICE activated a new 700-bed detention facility
• 1:56
  in former prison in
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: California,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: operated by the for-profit prison company GEO Group.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this facility is called Central Valley Annex,
• 2:05
  and it brings the total number of active detention centers in
• 2:08
  California to eight,
• 2:09
  making the state the fourth highest number of ICE detention
• 2:13
  facilities in the
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: country,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: just behind Texas,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Florida,
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: and Louisiana.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So in a little bit,
• 2:19
  Ben is going to do a deep dive into an ongoing lawsuit centered
• 2:22
  around another ICE
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: detention facility owned by GEO Group.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this facility,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: many folks on this podcast may be familiar with at this point,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: the Atalanto ICE Detention Facility.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: And after the break,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: last fall,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Trump halted a key U.S.
• 2:38
  resettlement program for Afghans who helped the American war
• 2:41
  effort in Afghanistan.
• 2:43
  So over 1100 of these allies have been in limbo at a weigh
• 2:47
  station run by the
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: state department in Qatar for over a year.
• 2:51
  We fast forward to today and the president is in talks to force
• 2:55
  these allies to
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: choose between two impossible choices.
• 2:58
  Essentially get deported back to Afghanistan where they face
• 3:02
  near certain death by the
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Taliban for their services to the US military or get deported to the DRC,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: the Democratic Republic of Congo.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: And Kelly,
• 3:11
  you covered the initial US troop withdrawal and subsequent
• 3:15
  Taliban takeover of
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Afghanistan in August 2021.
• 3:19
  Really interested to hear your perspective on what you saw on
• 3:21
  the ground there as well.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you'll also break down what this development,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: considered a betrayal by many humanitarian advocates,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: means for Afghan allies.
• 3:32
  absolutely and then our final story for this episode a federal
• 3:35
  appeals court ruled
• 3:37
  against the forced detention of people arrested by ICE agents
• 3:40
  and Ben is going to
• 3:41
  explain the story of the man at the center of this court case
• 3:45
  and the government's
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: underlying motivations into these mandatory detentions let's get into it
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Kelly,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: last week the U.S.
• 3:56
  Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit found
• 3:59
  that the president
• 4:00
  can't circumvent immigration laws which give people the right
• 4:03
  to apply for asylum
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: at the border.
• 4:05
  Can you tell us a bit more about this ruling and what it means
• 4:08
  for asylum seekers in the future?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really consequential decision by the Federal Court of Appeals.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to take us back to Inauguration Day last January.
• 4:17
  So day one,
• 4:18
  Trump declared that there was an invasion of America at the
• 4:22
  U.S.
• 4:22
  southern border.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he moved to, yeah.
• 4:25
  and he moved to suspend physical entry of migrants along with
• 4:29
  the suspension of
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: their ability to seek asylum,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: basically,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: because of this invasion at the southern border.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So since then,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: since January 2025,
• 4:37
  this executive order has denied migrants even a hearing to
• 4:40
  present their asylum
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: claims,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: but not anymore.
• 4:44
  Yeah,
• 4:44
  there has been no asylum cases since January 2025 at the U.S.
• 4:48
  southern border.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: But as of last week,
• 4:51
  this appeals court basically said that the president can't
• 4:54
  circumvent the law.
• 4:56
  uh go figure they can circumvent immigration laws which give
• 4:59
  people the right to
• 5:00
  apply for asylum at the border so um exactly and as a result
• 5:05
  DHS strongly disagrees
• 5:06
  with the ruling a DOJ spokesperson told NPR that they would
• 5:10
  seek further review of
• 5:11
  the decision but as of right now people can plead an asylum
• 5:15
  case at the US southern
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: border
• 5:17
  It reminds me of Trump 1.0 where he came into office and
• 5:21
  immediately declared a
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: national emergency at the southern border.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's that just on steroids now.
• 5:28
  What does this activity at the southern border look like since
• 5:31
  the executive order?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what might it look like moving forward?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 5:36
  this has had really serious knock-on effects that I haven't
• 5:39
  seen in many major news
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: outlets.
• 5:40
  I had to really do some digging and make some phone calls to
• 5:43
  get a sense of what
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: the impact has been like on the ground.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: When the asylum case suspension was active,
• 5:49
  it significantly impacted the flow of migrants north from the
• 5:53
  southern border.
• 5:54
  I spoke with a representative at Doctors Without Borders based
• 5:57
  in Mexico City,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: and he was telling me how they had actually set up
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: a program and facilities at the border in Juarez,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: which is just across the border from El Paso,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Texas.
• 6:07
  And they had enough resources and facilities to take care of up
• 6:12
  to 2,000 migrants
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: that would have been crossing from Juarez past the southern U.S.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: border.
• 6:20
  And what they actually got instead in the whole 2025 was just
• 6:24
  200 migrants.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: They were expecting 2,000.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: they got around 200.
• 6:29
  This has really impacted just exponentially the amount of
• 6:32
  people that are crossing
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: through the U.S.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: southern border.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right now,
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: predominantly migrants from Haiti,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cuba,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Venezuela,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: they have tried to seek refuge in Mexico's asylum system,
• 6:41
  which at this point is quite overwhelmed with the amount of
• 6:44
  people seeking asylum
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: in that country.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because of this new appeals court decision,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: this week hundreds of migrants,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: mostly migrants from Haiti,
• 6:53
  they left the southern Mexican city of Tapachula on foot to
• 6:56
  potentially seek better
• 6:57
  living conditions elsewhere in Mexico and perhaps many of them
• 7:02
  may make their way
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: up to the U.S.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: border to seek asylum.
• 7:05
  It's still really early to know for certain where this migrant
• 7:08
  caravan will be
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: going,
• 7:09
  but it looks like migrant caravans will continue to assemble
• 7:12
  and start moving
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: somewhere.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: In response to this federal appeals court decision,
• 7:17
  the Trump administration now has 45 days to ask for the case to
• 7:20
  be re-heard by the
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: full appellate court.
• 7:24
  but the Trump administration can also appeal directly to the
• 7:27
  Supreme Court.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we might expect moving forward.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Can you give us a status update on the border wall construction?
• 7:36
  Even though that this federal appeals court has pretty much
• 7:38
  said that Trump's
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: executive order is illegal,
• 7:41
  there is still a lot happening full speed ahead at the border
• 7:44
  wall right now.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: This story was originally reported by El Pais.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So there's an indigenous community called the Kauaia people.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're located in a town called Tecate in Baja California.
• 7:55
  but their indigenous community spreads across the border into
• 7:59
  the southern part of
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: the United States.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: They are alleging that there is construction,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: excavation and even detonation that has begun near this really culturally
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: significant mountain called Cerro Chuchama.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: this mountain,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: which is culturally significant to them,
• 8:16
  it's been part of this agreement established between their
• 8:19
  community and the United
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: States that says,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: we will never build in this area,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: we will not build a border wall,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: and we will keep it safe because of its significance to your community.
• 8:28
  It was even listed on the National Register of Historic Places
• 8:32
  in October of 1992.
• 8:34
  What this community is saying is that they are seeing
• 8:36
  construction facilities,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: they're seeing people starting to build the border wall there.
• 8:43
  this is what this indicates to me is that while the federal
• 8:46
  appeals court decision
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: is in place for now,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: there is construction at a key gap in the southern border wall,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: which and I'm pulling up some numbers from 2023.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So these numbers might not be accurate anymore.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: But in 2023,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's it's interesting and also sad that
• 9:15
  you know the tribe has to deal with this border that now
• 9:18
  intersects their land
• 9:20
  which has been there and the border came long after these
• 9:23
  people had been there and
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: so just the fact that they have to deal with construction at a culturally
• 9:28
  significant site is really depressing to hear because this is
• 9:32
  not something that
• 9:32
  indigenous people who have been here for thousands of years in
• 9:36
  that area should
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: have to deal with and so thank you for bringing us that update
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: just to add to that,
• 9:42
  one of the reasons that Matt and I even founded this podcast
• 9:45
  and started doing it
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: was because when it comes to the Trump administration,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: in every way that is possible,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: rule of law has been atrophied.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Rule of law is a suggestion.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So in this case, they are impeding on an agreement made in the 90s.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're moving full speed ahead.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really the courts that are almost the last defense.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But even then,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: courts move slowly or not as fast as they could,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: given the pace,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: the breathless pace at which the Trump administration has instituted its
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: immigration agenda.
• 10:10
  You explained how the courts essentially are always behind
• 10:14
  what's going on.
• 10:14
  That reminded me of last year when the federal judge ruled that
• 10:18
  some deportations
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: were illegal,
• 10:21
  but they couldn't keep up because essentially the Trump
• 10:24
  administration had pretty
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: much authorized the people to be deported.
• 10:28
  And so we're now playing catch up and we're seeing the effects
• 10:31
  of the judicial
• 10:32
  branch of the government struggling to keep up with justice
• 10:36
  essentially on the
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: ground.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:40
  Speaking of court cases,
• 10:41
  you're tracing a really interesting story as well.
• 10:44
  An advocacy organization called Public Justice was just granted
• 10:47
  something called a
• 10:48
  motion to intervene in a court case which challenges a major
• 10:52
  instance of use of
• 10:52
  force and chemical agents at the Atalanto ICE Processing Center
• 10:57
  in California.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ben, can you break down this case for us?
• 10:59
  You know,
• 11:00
  what is this lawsuit about and what is a motion to intervene
• 11:04
  actually?
• 11:05
  I should say at the top that I'm part of one of the newsrooms
• 11:09
  that is intervening
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: in this lawsuit.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: So this is kind of a monster of a case.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: It goes back years.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: We are looking at unspeakable
• 11:20
  has been on the ceiling records that were filed essentially
• 11:23
  confidentially in an
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: ongoing case that stems from a use of force at the facility.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: The use of force incident was something that happened in June of 2020.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And just to give some context there,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: there was a protest outside of the facility,
• 11:40
  which is about two and a half hours northeast of Los Angeles
• 11:44
  where I'm at.
• 11:45
  And because folks were essentially protesting the conditions
• 11:49
  inside and there
• 11:50
  There are stories of medical neglect and mistreatment of
• 11:54
  detainees,
• 11:55
  lack of water.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Basically it's almost unlivable, if not unlivable.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so there was a protest outside and folks inside were also hearing
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: is a production of the U.S.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: team to the detainees who were refusing to go back into their cells.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And this was all prompted by the protests outside.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: The facility essentially went on lockdown.
• 12:32
  And so the detainees were shot with chemical weapons and not
• 12:39
  given adequate medical
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: care or water to even
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: wash these chemicals off themselves after it happened.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's the incident behind the lawsuit.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: And we,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: it's a small coalition,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: the First Amendment Coalition,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: the public justice law firm,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: and my news reviewer
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: newsroom,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: the Southlander,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: and another local newsroom,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: the LA Public Press,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: decided to intervene in this case to fight to unseal those records.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we know that the records exist.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're not suing GeoGroup or
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: were kind of walking into the courtroom and being like,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: those records that you all filed under seal,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: we want those.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what our motion to intervene was asking.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: We were essentially asking the judge to let us do this.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we were granted this motion.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations on being granted the motion.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Once you unseal the documents, what do you intend to do with them?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, we're journalists.
• 13:46
  I personally would love to report on something like this
• 13:49
  because these facilities
• 13:52
  that are essentially prisons are almost like black sites for
• 13:56
  private corporations
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: like GPS.
• 13:58
  group or CoreCivic to operate essentially and these are
• 14:05
  directly contracted with
• 14:06
  the federal government and I see this as a way that the federal
• 14:10
  government can kind
• 14:11
  of shift liability away from itself onto these private
• 14:14
  corporations and I think
• 14:16
  shining a light into what's going on at these types of
• 14:19
  facilities whether they're
• 14:21
  immigration detention facilities or prisons one and the same
• 14:25
  really if you ask me I
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: think is really important
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious to hear from you.
• 14:31
  These partnerships between the government and private prison
• 14:34
  companies like the GEO
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Group,
• 14:36
  what has been the defining markers of these partnerships in
• 14:40
  this administration and
• 14:43
  how it relates to this motion to intervene that your newsroom
• 14:46
  is working on?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, the defining thing, it's money.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's money, money, money.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's the heart of it, really.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And just to give you more insight as to how much money,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: detention and prisons are a multi-billion dollar institutions.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: industry in the United States.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: But even just last year,
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: in 2025,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: between GeoGroup,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: who operates the Adelanto ICE Processing Center,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: and CoreCivic,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: which is another private prison company,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: they received over $2 billion from the federal government just last year.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I can't really wrap my head around how much money that is,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: but that was just last year and put into context,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: the raids,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: the courthouse arrests,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: the brutalities,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: the summary executions of US citizens,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: and all of the resistance that happened across America.
• 15:43
  it's a industry of violence that is fueled by violence and
• 15:48
  people at the top are
• 15:49
  getting paid by it and I think there's something really wrong
• 15:52
  about that that these
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: people at the top who are profiting off of
• 15:57
  state sanctioned kidnappings and summary executions of US
• 16:02
  citizens are being able
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: to are operating these prisons almost as black sites.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so this lawsuit intervention that we're doing is a step into having
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: transparency and perhaps accountability,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: maybe years down the line.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what is going to happen next with this case?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: We actually have a hearing in a few weeks here.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: I believe it's May 18th.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of like a two-step process.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: The motion to intervene was granted.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: That essentially allows us to stay in the courtroom.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And now the motion to unseal is what will be heard on May 18th.
• 16:40
  And that's going to essentially determine whether we will get
• 16:45
  the records unsealed or not.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:48
  So until May 18th,
• 16:49
  best of luck to you and congrats on the motion to intervene.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 16:54
  So we are going to take a quick break and we will be right back
• 16:57
  with more stories for you.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hey folks, Matt here.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: We are in the middle of this independent launch for our show.
• 17:08
  And the number one thing you can do to help us is share this
• 17:12
  show with a friend.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Send them a Spotify link,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: send them an Apple Music link,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: send them a Substack link.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: In addition,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: if you would be so kind as to leave a five star review,
• 17:23
  that does so much to help us gain visibility and bring our
• 17:27
  reporting out to the
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: wider world.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can, we would so appreciate having your support.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to This Week On ICE.
• 17:40
  We started this episode talking about a consequential federal
• 17:43
  appeals court
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: decision impacting asylum seekers at the U.S.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: southern border
• 17:47
  Ben is going to take up the torch again to talk about another
• 17:51
  key appeals court
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: decision made recently.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Ben, what have you got for us?
• 17:56
  Yeah,
• 17:56
  so I found this case coming out of the Second Circuit Appellate
• 18:01
  District.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: This case, the name is of versus Frieden.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And this was a recent decision where, and actually, let me give some
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: was filed by Ricardo Kunja
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: is a Brazilian national and entered the U.S.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: in around 2004,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: 2005 and had lived in Massachusetts for over 20 years.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: He had built a whole life here.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: He is married, has a family and owns a
• 18:41
  construction business and last year in September 2025 he was
• 18:46
  taken by ICE and you
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: know you can imagine the just the absolute terror and derailment
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so he fought for a, he wanted to get bail, right?
• 19:05
  When you're taken by ICE and you're in detention,
• 19:08
  you can make a case for getting out on bond.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: is one of the most important things that we have in the country.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: is one of the most important things that we have to do with.
• 19:41
  the mandatory detention on bail and the federal government
• 19:45
  opposed this the federal
• 19:46
  government actually not only did they want him to stay in
• 19:50
  detention but they began
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: arguing that anyone who is taken
• 19:56
  during the raids,
• 19:58
  if they're in the country illegally,
• 20:00
  they must be automatically locked up.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: They don't get a hearing, they don't get bond, and there's no exceptions.
• 20:09
  What that equates to is mandatory indefinite detention for
• 20:16
  anyone who gets taken by ICE.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: and I think that's what's at the heart of this case, right?
• 20:26
  If you zoom out and apply that principle to everybody that has
• 20:30
  been taken by ICE,
• 20:31
  you're looking at an entire demographic or multiple
• 20:34
  demographics of people that are
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: being held indefinitely in these detention centers.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Ben, had this gone ICE's way, what would have happened?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: My brain goes to a very extreme example,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm really struggling to come up with something else.
• 20:55
  But it's a very scary reality where masked agents can take
• 20:59
  somebody on the basis of
• 21:01
  race or what language they're speaking and put them into these
• 21:06
  detention centers
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: slash prisons that,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: just like we talked about Adelanto,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: where you aren't given proper medical care,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: where you don't have
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: immigration law is being weaponized against other communities.
• 21:43
  you know and the way that we saw this was during Japanese
• 21:46
  internment that's like
• 21:47
  the most immediate echo of this instance right now is that
• 21:52
  we're able to detain
• 21:52
  people without a legal process without due process and then put
• 21:57
  them away somewhere
• 21:58
  because we have othered them so we're using the levers of the
• 22:01
  law to continue to
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: other people in ways that pretty much drive impunity
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: To answer your question,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: had this gone ICE's way,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: it's really the erosion of due process,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is something that from the start,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: we have seen Trump and just like in the other stories that you mentioned,
• 22:17
  where rulings or like a federal court's opinions on something
• 22:22
  are almost like a
• 22:23
  suggestion to the federal government where they can act with
• 22:26
  impunity and their
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: corporate partners can seemingly act with impunity.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: and not be transparent about what they're doing.
• 22:35
  I think it would have just made the issues worse than what
• 22:38
  we're seeing with ICE
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: right now and how people are being treated at their facilities.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for sharing that story.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And again, looking forward to following it as it progresses.
• 22:50
  So,
• 22:50
  Kelly,
• 22:51
  I'm going to give you the mic to close this out for this
• 22:53
  episode.
• 22:54
  You and Matt have talked about the expansion of these so-called
• 22:57
  third country
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: deportations,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: air quotes here,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: where we're seeing deportations of immigrants to unfamiliar countries.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: rather than where they originally came from.
• 23:08
  And so oftentimes these third countries are facing their own
• 23:12
  levels of insecurity
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: and instability.
• 23:15
  But now there's a bleak update on how Afghan allies who aided
• 23:19
  the US military
• 23:20
  during its occupation of Afghanistan from September 2001 to
• 23:24
  August 2021 are a new
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: party to this program.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell us what's going on with us?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to give a little bit of a history lesson.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So just stick with me on this one, Ben.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to take us back to 9-11.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: 9-11 happens in 2001, right?
• 23:39
  We invade Afghanistan to try to dismantle Al-Qaeda and remove
• 23:42
  the Taliban from the country.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: 20 years go by.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And in that 20 years,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: there are tens of thousands of Afghans who are allies to the U.S.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: war effort.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And these are people that acted as members of the Afghan special forces.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: These were interpreters.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: These were cultural advisors.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: logistical supporters.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: They were drivers.
• 24:01
  They were serving at the front lines along with the American
• 24:05
  military to keep
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: troops safe for those 20 years.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's fast forward again to August 2021.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's the Biden administration.
• 24:13
  We ended up having a really,
• 24:15
  really messy end to the occupation,
• 24:17
  a messy troop withdrawal.
• 24:19
  The Taliban ends up taking control very swiftly of Afghanistan
• 24:22
  in a matter of days.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Afghan president flees in a helicopter.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: and then there is a humanitarian crisis ever since.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: There still is, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So from 2021 through 2025,
• 24:36
  about 190,000 Afghans who served the American war effort were
• 24:40
  then resettled
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: lawfully under this thing called the Special Immigrant Visa.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was under this project called Operation Allies Welcome,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: which allowed them to come to the U.S.
• 24:49
  instead of staying in Afghanistan where they would have faced
• 24:52
  near certain
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: death or immense persecution at the hands of Taliban forces.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is all important because they were allies to us.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: We promised their safety and protection from the Taliban.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And now let's fast forward again to November 2025.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's a shooting that occurs, right?
• 25:10
  And one of these Afghan allies who went through Operation
• 25:14
  Allies Welcome and was
• 25:15
  resettled in the United States ends up shooting two National
• 25:18
  Guard troops stationed
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: near a metro stop in downtown DC.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: I remember this.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: in the absolute fog that is the news cycle these days,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I would understand if this ended up getting buried.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: When that happens,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: when that shooting happens,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Trump ends the special immigration process for Afghan allies,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: claiming that the entire vetting process was shoddy,
• 25:42
  that we need to have more strict vetting processes to be sure
• 25:45
  that something like
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: this never happens again.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't end there.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's fast forward to last week.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 25:51
  the New York Times broke news that Trump is now considering
• 25:54
  sending about 1100 of
• 25:56
  the same Afghan allies that are and their families who are
• 26:00
  stationed currently at a
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: State Department.
• 26:02
  Yeah,
• 26:03
  they're stationed currently at a State Department facility in
• 26:05
  Doha,
• 26:05
  Qatar.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: They many of them have been there since January 2025.
• 26:09
  um and they're giving them a choice between two impossible
• 26:13
  outcomes one choice is
• 26:16
  go back to Afghanistan self-deport to Afghanistan where again
• 26:20
  they may face near
• 26:21
  certain death or immense persecution at the hands of the
• 26:23
  Taliban or two be deported
• 26:26
  to a third country and that third country is the DRC which at
• 26:31
  this point there is
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: an active conflict and
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't self-deport back, that is pretty much their only option.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is an important case because it is ongoing.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that Trump has effectively floated.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that kind of remains in limbo at this time.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Jeez.
• 26:47
  What are the political parties here in the USA and what are
• 26:50
  both sides saying about this?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so,
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: as is pretty characteristic of the Trump administration,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: there are extreme sentiments about what's happening,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 26:59
  So Republicans have claimed that the 190,000 Afghans that were
• 27:04
  admitted to the U.S.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: under the special immigrant visa process,
• 27:07
  that they were not properly vetted and that they are
• 27:10
  contributing to a national
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: security dilemma or threat in the United States.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 27:15
  Democratic ranking members of the House Foreign Relations
• 27:18
  Committee have firmly
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: disagreed with this claim.
• 27:21
  and advocates and even veterans as well who were in Afghanistan
• 27:26
  agree with the
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Democratic ranking members.
• 27:28
  And they say that this special immigrant visa process is
• 27:31
  actually the most strict
• 27:32
  of any immigrant visa process that we have available at the
• 27:36
  United States in the
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: United States right now.
• 27:38
  So I attended a press conference recently that was held by an
• 27:42
  advocacy organization
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: called Afghan Evac.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a gentleman named John Feiner.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: He was a senior White House official who directed
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: this thing called Operation Enduring Welcome.
• 27:52
  He was also a Deputy National Security Advisor and he said
• 27:56
  almost verbatim that
• 27:57
  this process is the most vetted lawful immigrant process in the
• 28:03
  United States among
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: all categories of people who come to the United States.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a robust program.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: high bar.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: and this is the real kicker here,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: is that this program did not just come out of thin air.
• 28:18
  The program used existing lawful immigration pathways that were
• 28:22
  created by Congress.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: It built on top of those pathways.
• 28:26
  It actually built on top of immigration pathways that were
• 28:29
  forged during the first
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Trump administration.
• 28:31
  The way that the Republican Party is portraying this is that
• 28:33
  this was a messy
• 28:35
  emergency evacuation lever being pulled to just grab people in
• 28:39
  Afghanistan and come to the U.S.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: But really,
• 28:42
  it was an intentional pathway to citizenship that was built
• 28:46
  upon by many other
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: vetted immigration pathways to come to the United States.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it's quite literally the opposite of what they're saying it was.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if anything,
• 28:56
  it's actually criticizing its own immigration pathways that
• 28:59
  were some of which were
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: established during the first Trump term.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is ICE involved in any of this here?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: What is the connection to ICE?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when we started this podcast,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: we called this podcast something that covers ICE,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: but also covers the ballooning of the U.S.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: immigration apparatus.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the operative phrase that is coming into play here right now.
• 29:24
  is that what is happening to Afghan allies really echoes the
• 29:27
  rhetoric that Trump
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: has used in other contexts about immigrants.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So he has said things like, you know, they're not bringing their best.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: People are coming from shithole countries.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is all the same package for the administration.
• 29:40
  on top of the fact that again we're seeing the activation of
• 29:45
  third country
• 29:45
  deportations okay and when I think about countries that
• 29:50
  couldn't be more insecure
• 29:52
  or more ill-equipped to receive refugees among them is probably
• 29:57
  DRC and the thing
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: is and we have said this in previous episodes
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: is that when you are deported to a third country,
• 30:05
  which is something that has just completely ballooned and
• 30:07
  metastasized under this
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: administration,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: when they're deported,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: we kind of relinquish control of what happens to them.
• 30:16
  So it's hard for them to then have due process to potentially
• 30:19
  come back to the United States.
• 30:22
  And then we don't know how they're going to be treated in these
• 30:24
  detention facilities abroad.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Jeez, where does this go from here?
• 30:31
  the State Department has declined to provide any further
• 30:34
  information regarding
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: these negotiations and what they're going to do with Afghan allies.
• 30:40
  What we do know is that the advocacy group Afghan EVAC that
• 30:43
  hosted the press
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: conference that I was party to,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: they're working on an emergency bill to protect these allies,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: these 1100 allies that are currently in Doha,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Qatar.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: The camp in Qatar is reportedly slated for closure in the near future.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: That is a fact.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So between
• 31:00
  what is being negotiated about Afghan allies and that time is
• 31:05
  kind of this black box,
• 31:06
  right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's slated for closure.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what's going to happen to Afghan allies.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where we're at right now.
• 31:12
  Here's the other thing that I found really compelling during
• 31:14
  this press conference
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: is that they also had veterans on the line,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: one of whom was Major General Paul Eaton.
• 31:20
  He was a former United States Army officer who commanded the
• 31:23
  operations to train
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Iraqi troops during Operation Iraqi Freedom.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the argument that he presented
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: was that this is a very bad strategy.
• 31:33
  We're basically saying that we promised Afghan allies a pathway
• 31:36
  to citizenship to protect them.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if in the future we start another war,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: which under this administration,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: pretty likely,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: and we need allies on the front lines to protect our troops,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to look toward what happened to Afghan allies and wonder,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: will that happen to us?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: So now it becomes a national security issue.
• 31:58
  which is the very thing the Trump administration has said
• 32:00
  they're trying to prevent
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: in deporting Afghan allies to DRC.
• 32:07
  Yeah,
• 32:07
  it really sounds like a potential blowback if it goes down that
• 32:10
  route.
• 32:12
  yeah well that is actually it for us this week Ben again thank
• 32:15
  you so much what a
• 32:16
  fantastic first episode for This Week On ICE and to you our
• 32:21
  listeners you can reach
• 32:22
  us at thisweekonice at gmail.com with questions comments or
• 32:26
  tips if you like this
• 32:28
  podcast please share it with a friend stay safe look out for
• 32:31
  your neighbors and
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: we'll see you next time thank you