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TRACKING KOHBERGER: Idaho Student Murders · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are live here in Moscow, Idaho,
0:16
Speaker 1: camp outside the so called murder house where four beautiful
0:21
Speaker 1: young co eds, three girls, one guy lost their lives.
0:27
Speaker 1: And I've got to tell you there is an eerie
0:29
Speaker 1: silence here. One thing I just noticed as I sat
0:33
Speaker 1: down at this fold out table, about twenty feet from
0:37
Speaker 1: me is an apartment complex, an apartment building, right beside
0:41
Speaker 1: the murder house, and I can clearly hear an infant
0:46
Speaker 1: inside crying. My point is that the video cam, the
0:52
Speaker 1: security cam about fifty feet away from the murder house,
0:57
Speaker 1: a pearsha have caught whimpering, muted whimpering at the time
1:02
Speaker 1: we believe the murders occurred of those four students. And
1:06
Speaker 1: from what I can tell now, that is entirely possible,
1:11
Speaker 1: if not overwhelmingly probable. I mean, I can hear everything
1:16
Speaker 1: that's happening right beside me and out of the street.
1:21
Speaker 1: There's no question that security cam could have picked up
1:24
Speaker 1: any sounds, including a loud thud or a dog barking
1:28
Speaker 1: or whimpering. And speaking of whimpering, I've got an all
1:32
Speaker 1: star panel. I'll introduce him as we go along. But
1:34
Speaker 1: to Cheryl, McCollum joining me, forensic expert out of the
1:38
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, now start off Zone seven and
1:41
Speaker 1: new hit podcast. Cheryl, when I hear that word whimpering,
1:46
Speaker 1: I can't get away from it. I cannot get away
1:49
Speaker 1: from one of those girls or possibly Ethan, actually whimpering
1:55
Speaker 1: after they've been stabbed, you know, half away, half asleep.
1:59
Speaker 1: I'm not really even sure they were all asleep, Cheryl,
2:02
Speaker 1: because one of them just got indoor dashed for something.
2:05
Speaker 1: How could they be asleep at the time of the murders.
2:08
Speaker 1: But I do believe they were in their beds. But
2:10
Speaker 1: the whimpering, Cheryl, just it's awful. WHOA wait, did you
2:15
Speaker 1: could you hear that? I can hear the baby, and
2:18
Speaker 1: it's further away from me than the murder house. So
2:22
Speaker 1: there's no question that security cam was picking up the
2:26
Speaker 1: sounds of the murders. Go ahead, Cheryl, Nancy. What it
2:29
Speaker 1: does to me is it allows the general public to
2:32
Speaker 1: hear this crime in progress, which normally we are not
2:37
Speaker 1: at all able to, you know, witness that as an
2:41
Speaker 1: ear witness, and it's it's gonna be followed up by
2:44
Speaker 1: what the security camera says. Is also a thud We're
2:49
Speaker 1: gonna know when this life ended in real time, and
2:53
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be critical in the future
2:56
Speaker 1: for a jury to understand this is not something off TV.
3:01
Speaker 1: This happened. You know, to everybody on the panel, you've
3:04
Speaker 1: all been to crime scenes, murder scenes, but I've only
3:08
Speaker 1: felt this feeling at a couple of murders in the past.
3:12
Speaker 1: It's very eerie here. It's quiet. I was saying earlier
3:18
Speaker 1: that it feels like you've gone into an empty church
3:20
Speaker 1: or you're out in a cemetery. There's just a very
3:24
Speaker 1: eerie feeling around the house. And it's just the way
3:29
Speaker 1: you described it. Joining me also is Chris mcdonna, director
3:33
Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective and start of the
3:38
Speaker 1: interview room on YouTube. I'm looking right over at the
3:42
Speaker 1: Sigma Kai house and it's amazing to me. You warned me, Chris,
3:47
Speaker 1: I have circled this house on foot and in an
3:50
Speaker 1: suv over and over and over. There is nowhere that
3:55
Speaker 1: you don't have a bird's ivy straight into their home.
3:58
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, Nancy, And isn't that chilling just in of
4:02
Speaker 1: itself when you as the way you describe how you
4:06
Speaker 1: know the scene is so silent. It's almost as if
4:08
Speaker 1: the universe is frozen that moment of this horrific crime.
4:15
Speaker 1: And I felt the same thing when I was there,
4:18
Speaker 1: right there on the same road with you. It is
4:22
Speaker 1: extremely I don't know, just unsettling yet, Holly. At the
4:29
Speaker 1: same time, you know another thing, when you said it
4:31
Speaker 1: was frozen in time. In the back, it looks like
4:34
Speaker 1: they've still got Christmas lights strung up. But another thing
4:39
Speaker 1: I noticed, and this is really interesting to me, David
4:42
Speaker 1: Leroy is with me. Guys. You know that name. Well,
4:45
Speaker 1: he's a high profile lawyer out of Idaho. He's the
4:48
Speaker 1: former Idaho Attorney General and lieutenant governor, former prosecutor at
4:53
Speaker 1: Leroy dot com. But what intrigues me the most is
4:57
Speaker 1: not just his legal prowess. He has been in this
5:01
Speaker 1: home many times, you know, David Leroy. Kristen Dunna tried
5:05
Speaker 1: to warm me. But how easy it was. I could
5:08
Speaker 1: not really fathom how easy it was to see. I mean,
5:11
Speaker 1: these girls were like fishing in a little fish bowl
5:15
Speaker 1: for the killer to spy on them, laughing, making breakfast,
5:20
Speaker 1: changing clothes, getting out of the bathtub or the shower,
5:23
Speaker 1: making out with their boyfriends. I mean, how many times
5:26
Speaker 1: do you think Coburger stood right behind this house and
5:31
Speaker 1: looked in. You know, their trees right behind the house,
5:34
Speaker 1: David Leroy, But they're not thick at all. I can
5:38
Speaker 1: see straight through them. What would you say, Sydney, Maybe
5:41
Speaker 1: seven or eight trees, and they're tall and spinda ly
5:44
Speaker 1: you can see straight through them. They might as well
5:46
Speaker 1: not even be there. Well, the setting, as you have discovered, Nancy,
5:50
Speaker 1: is both somewhat intimate to little offshoot of the road
5:56
Speaker 1: that almost did ends halfway up a hill that therefore
6:01
Speaker 1: is on a rim where you can look across to
6:03
Speaker 1: the Sigma Kai house. But one thing that hasn't been
6:07
Speaker 1: particularly well detailed is across the street from the Sigma
6:11
Speaker 1: Kai house and behind the next hill is the administration
6:15
Speaker 1: building for the university, perhaps just a quarter of a
6:18
Speaker 1: mile as the crow would fly from that house, So
6:23
Speaker 1: it's isolated. It's halfway up a hill. It has these
6:26
Speaker 1: vistas and views, but it's really almost smacked out in
6:31
Speaker 1: the middle of the campus itself. Guys. Another thing we
6:34
Speaker 1: learned last night. We got an suv and the suv
6:41
Speaker 1: was taken from the murder scene all the way back
6:45
Speaker 1: to Coburger's pullman home and I want to tell you
6:49
Speaker 1: what we learned. He didn't go straight home. I think
6:51
Speaker 1: it was trying to throw off Elie law enforcement. What
6:56
Speaker 1: should have been a nine to fifteen minute drive turn
6:59
Speaker 1: out to be an hour drive. It reminds me a
7:02
Speaker 1: lot of murdog on his rural route when he got
7:07
Speaker 1: shot in the head and lied about it. Remember he
7:10
Speaker 1: claimed he took this long, circuitous route from A to
7:14
Speaker 1: B when it would have been about an eleven minute drive.
7:18
Speaker 1: He chose to make a forty five minute drive so
7:21
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be seen when he had himself shot in
7:23
Speaker 1: the head as an alumi of sorts. But long story short,
7:27
Speaker 1: This route taken in the middle of the night. That's
7:30
Speaker 1: when we took the route in the pitch dark. It's
7:34
Speaker 1: very sparse. It's a real no man's land. He could
7:37
Speaker 1: have thrown that knife anywhere. It does not get even
7:42
Speaker 1: close to the Snake River, so I don't believe the
7:44
Speaker 1: knife is in the Snake River. But there were some
7:47
Speaker 1: homes but no traffic. We passed about two or three
7:52
Speaker 1: cars the whole hour, pitch dark, no street lights, which
7:56
Speaker 1: is common in the country. But he could have done
7:59
Speaker 1: anything he wanted with that knife. Now, this is what
8:02
Speaker 1: I want to throw to you, guys. Do you believe
8:06
Speaker 1: as I do that if Ellie law enforcement looks at
8:11
Speaker 1: the records long enough, they will catch him with his
8:15
Speaker 1: cell phone plotting that route, practicing that route. What do
8:20
Speaker 1: you think, Cheryl McCallum, Nancy, I think he's going to
8:22
Speaker 1: have maps on the wall inside his apartment. I think
8:26
Speaker 1: not only is it on his phone and on his computer.
8:29
Speaker 1: I literally think he has pinpointed and charted this thing
8:33
Speaker 1: out where he can look at it every day. You know,
8:35
Speaker 1: you said interesting, and I don't know a few minute
8:38
Speaker 1: the way I took it to look at it every day. Cheryl,
8:43
Speaker 1: you know what I carry with me all the time,
8:45
Speaker 1: my dad's shirt, and I look at it every morning
8:49
Speaker 1: when I wake up. I look at it at night
8:51
Speaker 1: before I go to sleep. I miss him so much.
8:54
Speaker 1: It's something that I love, hey, because it's part of him.
8:58
Speaker 1: Did you hear what she said, doctor Angela Arnold? I
9:01
Speaker 1: don't know if she meant it this way with me?
9:03
Speaker 1: Is doctor Angie Arnold renowned psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
9:06
Speaker 1: You can find her at Angela Arnold, MD. Dot com.
9:10
Speaker 1: She said, he looks at it all the time, all
9:16
Speaker 1: the time as a memento, like I would look at
9:19
Speaker 1: a scrapbook of the twins growing up their first grade,
9:22
Speaker 1: they're christening their first Christmas. Explain that why would he
9:26
Speaker 1: want to look at the map? Dancy? To me more
9:30
Speaker 1: than a memento, it's an obsession. He's obsessing over what
9:34
Speaker 1: he's going to do. He's got these obsessive thoughts. They're
9:38
Speaker 1: very bad thoughts that go through his head, and so
9:42
Speaker 1: he's he's plotting this out. Okay, I'm looking for a
9:46
Speaker 1: little more from you, doctor Angie. Not very bad thoughts.
9:50
Speaker 1: I mean, I can say that you're the psychiatrist. He's
9:53
Speaker 1: got incongruent thoughts in his head about murder, about murdering someone,
10:00
Speaker 1: and it just so happens that these people are the
10:03
Speaker 1: target of who he has set out to murder at
10:06
Speaker 1: this particular time in his life. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
10:25
Speaker 1: you know, we look for a motive, even though the
10:28
Speaker 1: state doesn't have to prove a motive ever in any case,
10:31
Speaker 1: but a jury likes to hear what's the motive? Why
10:34
Speaker 1: would the person do this? Well, you've got to rape
10:38
Speaker 1: somebody you've got to steal something, You've got anger, you've
10:41
Speaker 1: got drugs or alcohol. In this case, we had none
10:44
Speaker 1: of that. But I'm just wondering. I think about those
10:49
Speaker 1: questionnaires he sent to felons, like what were you thinking?
10:52
Speaker 1: What was going through your mind? What were you feeling
10:54
Speaker 1: when you committed that murder? When you raped that lady?
10:59
Speaker 1: What were you thinking? Nancy can I would never even
11:02
Speaker 1: imagine asking something like that, But I really think I
11:06
Speaker 1: think that's Chris, listen to this theory and you can
11:08
Speaker 1: shoot it down if you feel like it. But what
11:11
Speaker 1: about this that When the questionnaires wouldn't do it for
11:15
Speaker 1: me anymore, he tried to get on with a police department,
11:18
Speaker 1: hoping to see crime scenes. When that didn't fall When
11:22
Speaker 1: that fell through, he finally acted on his impulses, on
11:28
Speaker 1: his obsession. Go ahead, we used to say, and homicide.
11:33
Speaker 1: Knowledge is having the correct answer. Intelligence is asking the
11:37
Speaker 1: right question. And this guy, to your point, got to
11:43
Speaker 1: a point where there was something that had built up.
11:48
Speaker 1: And you know, when you start paying attention to the
11:50
Speaker 1: detail like we're talking here, then the big picture will
11:54
Speaker 1: start taking care of itself. The pre planning all of
11:58
Speaker 1: the move movements, he was making prior to the incident,
12:03
Speaker 1: the incident itself, and the post incident. All of those
12:07
Speaker 1: behavior patterns established with all of the evidence will paint
12:12
Speaker 1: the big picture of who this guy really is. Nancy
12:15
Speaker 1: back on the big picture. Those three roadways are important,
12:21
Speaker 1: the directions they go and what they are to your
12:25
Speaker 1: observation about and in relation to this big picture. Two
12:30
Speaker 1: of them are major highways into and out of Moscow
12:34
Speaker 1: and Pullman, and the one that is most significant is
12:38
Speaker 1: the back road that you were talking about that has
12:41
Speaker 1: literally almost no population, going through rolling hills and wheat fields.
12:48
Speaker 1: The first road he took was a major highway south
12:51
Speaker 1: to Lewis and Idaho, and that would suggest, were he
12:55
Speaker 1: to be followed, that he was interested in being in
13:00
Speaker 1: Lewiston or going to Lewiston, but it is exactly away
13:04
Speaker 1: from Pullman, Washington. The road that he ended up on
13:08
Speaker 1: going back to Pullman was a major highway going from
13:11
Speaker 1: south to north. That would indicate somebody on it had
13:15
Speaker 1: no relationship to Moscow. And what he did to tie
13:19
Speaker 1: those two things together, neither one of which suggests any
13:24
Speaker 1: relationship to Pullman, is to cross between those two highways
13:30
Speaker 1: on this rural agricultural back road that spans some six
13:36
Speaker 1: or seven or eight miles. And so the idea here
13:40
Speaker 1: was to leave town going away from Pullman, to come
13:44
Speaker 1: back to town not having any relationship to having been
13:48
Speaker 1: in Moscow, and to obscure those two directions by this
13:53
Speaker 1: back road where he would run into nobody. That's the
13:55
Speaker 1: importance of this three road connection. Hey, Nancy, I gotta
13:59
Speaker 1: jump back in here real Yeah, go ahead, Okay. So
14:02
Speaker 1: when I said he would be staring at it, I
14:04
Speaker 1: meant that that's why he literally, I believe, put things
14:07
Speaker 1: on the wall. Remember when you took the twins across
14:10
Speaker 1: the country, how long did you spend looking at national
14:14
Speaker 1: parks and state parks and places to stay and roadside
14:18
Speaker 1: attractions and show them. For the past four months, this
14:22
Speaker 1: is all he has done. We know of twelve times
14:25
Speaker 1: he visited before the murders. We know at least four
14:28
Speaker 1: he visited the day of the murders. One very significant
14:33
Speaker 1: thing about this guy, Ted Bundy worked at rape Crisis
14:37
Speaker 1: so he could hear from the victims, because that's what
14:40
Speaker 1: got him off. This guy wanted to hear from perpetrators.
14:45
Speaker 1: That's where his mind is, because that's how he sees himself.
14:49
Speaker 1: That's a solid point, you know. I'm just thinking about
14:51
Speaker 1: how the cops tore apart his apartment, and I'm wondering.
14:57
Speaker 1: We know he is extremely fastidious. Did he keep written notes,
15:01
Speaker 1: did he plan in writing? Did he have a list
15:05
Speaker 1: on his computer? I wonder what he bought when he
15:08
Speaker 1: went to Albert Sutton's, which I think isn't Albertsons a
15:11
Speaker 1: grocery store. Guys, he went to an Albertson's. I'm wondering
15:16
Speaker 1: what he got there right after the murders, after he
15:19
Speaker 1: came back and looked at the crime scene again. And
15:22
Speaker 1: we catch criminals coming back to the scene so often.
15:24
Speaker 1: I mean, think of Scott Peterson. Remember how he would
15:27
Speaker 1: go to the edge of a scenic vista and look
15:30
Speaker 1: out on the San Francisco Bay. I guess what was
15:32
Speaker 1: he looking to see? If Lacy's body had popped up
15:34
Speaker 1: in the water. But it's almost instinctual. I'm just hoping
15:40
Speaker 1: the cops can get him practicing that route on his
15:43
Speaker 1: cell phone. Very circuitous route when we drove it last night,
15:47
Speaker 1: pitch dark. Everybody point is you gotta know where you're
15:51
Speaker 1: going a lot of twists and turns on that route.
15:55
Speaker 1: And I guarantee you just knowing him as much as
15:59
Speaker 1: we know him now after seeing him, after hearing about
16:03
Speaker 1: him cleaning out his car, say meticulously wearing gloves even
16:08
Speaker 1: after the incident. You know he planned this out and
16:12
Speaker 1: he had to leave a trail, But can we find
16:15
Speaker 1: the trail? Also, we know that in a few short
16:20
Speaker 1: hours there's going to be what is called a status hearing.
16:24
Speaker 1: It's going to be Thursday morning, straight out to you,
16:27
Speaker 1: David Leroy. In this jurisdiction, what is a status hearing?
16:33
Speaker 1: The status hearing before the magistrate early on in a
16:35
Speaker 1: felony case before a preliminary hearing has head, will simply
16:40
Speaker 1: be a scheduling conference at which probably two things will
16:43
Speaker 1: come up. Number One, the judge will be asking the
16:46
Speaker 1: defense if they are ready to or wish to have
16:50
Speaker 1: their preliminary hearing, of which the prosecution would be required
16:54
Speaker 1: to call witnesses and produce evidence to show a belief
16:57
Speaker 1: to a Probably because the status principally will be called
17:03
Speaker 1: to show the defense the opportunity. I'm going to start
17:07
Speaker 1: again here and answer the defense will have an opportunity
17:12
Speaker 1: at this status hearing to indicate to the judge whether
17:14
Speaker 1: they wish to go forward with the probable cause hearing
17:19
Speaker 1: called a preliminary hearing immediately or delay. That that will
17:23
Speaker 1: be the first issue that is considered. The second issue
17:26
Speaker 1: will likely be a discussion about whether discovery, the exchange
17:29
Speaker 1: of police reports and other materials back and forth from
17:34
Speaker 1: the prosecutor to the defense, and the defense's response to
17:37
Speaker 1: it is going adequately and smooth. So it's essentially a
17:40
Speaker 1: scheduling conference. Okay, you know what. Another thing you hear
17:44
Speaker 1: about status conferences, typically in civil cases where the judge
17:49
Speaker 1: is saying, okay, you had a carrec Are you going
17:52
Speaker 1: to settle? Or do I need to put this on
17:54
Speaker 1: a trial calendar? Can't you people get along talking to
17:57
Speaker 1: the lawyers, not the parties? Trust me? Can you come
17:59
Speaker 1: up something so we don't have to go to trial?
18:01
Speaker 1: That's how I view status conferences in this case, which
18:04
Speaker 1: of course is not civil, it's criminal. Just as David
18:08
Speaker 1: Leroy is describing, it's kind of an update. How are
18:11
Speaker 1: we moving along? Do you need experts paid for by
18:14
Speaker 1: the state? Do you need other people on your team? Also,
18:18
Speaker 1: when it comes to a preliminary hearing, I would imagine
18:22
Speaker 1: that the state would ought for a grand jury proceeding,
18:25
Speaker 1: rather than putting their witnesses up on the stand for
18:29
Speaker 1: the defense to get a first strike, you know, take
18:31
Speaker 1: a whack at them before the jury trial. So I'm imagining,
18:35
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that the state will act with a grand
18:38
Speaker 1: jury as opposed to a preliminary hearing. As we wait
18:42
Speaker 1: for that status hearing to start. Also, we're wondering if
18:46
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger will be at the status hearing, and I
18:49
Speaker 1: can guarantee you I believe he will. Why is there
18:53
Speaker 1: anything important really going on? No, there's not. It's just
18:57
Speaker 1: a scheduling matter. But if they don't bring the defendant in,
19:02
Speaker 1: he could later claim he missed something important and his
19:05
Speaker 1: constitutional rights were violated. And we've also learned the jail
19:09
Speaker 1: here is in the courthouse, so why not just shuttle
19:12
Speaker 1: him up the elevator and get him in there for
19:14
Speaker 1: that status hearing whether he needs to be there or not.
19:17
Speaker 1: Cross your teas, dot your eyes. You know, nobody means
19:21
Speaker 1: to make a mistake, but it happens in criminal cases,
19:25
Speaker 1: and once it's happened, it can actually change the course
19:29
Speaker 1: of the investigation. In the trial. You know, a lot
19:33
Speaker 1: is going down, and I want to take some calls
19:35
Speaker 1: from our viewers and emails all of their questions. Here's
19:38
Speaker 1: a good one. Take a listen to this, guys. This
19:41
Speaker 1: is from Bambi. Interested in the door dash delivery person.
19:44
Speaker 1: Did they drop the food off at the door or
19:47
Speaker 1: does someone get it from them? Once the delivery person
19:50
Speaker 1: interviewed my police to see if Hey police, glad to
19:55
Speaker 1: see you, Masco police glad to see you. And I
19:59
Speaker 1: want to tell you they have been patrolling this area NonStop.
20:04
Speaker 1: You would be surprised at all of the rubberneckers that
20:08
Speaker 1: are just coming by to stare at the house. It's
20:11
Speaker 1: a little freaky, right, but of course maybe they're trying
20:15
Speaker 1: to figure something out, just like we are. Okay, back
20:18
Speaker 1: to Banby. Was a delivery person interviewed by police to
20:21
Speaker 1: see if they notice the killer's car or anything else
20:24
Speaker 1: that happened that night. Okay, that leads me to another question, Sidney,
20:28
Speaker 1: you would know the answer to this. Probably don't door
20:30
Speaker 1: dash cars have a camera, so not necessarily. I was
20:35
Speaker 1: thinking more about ubers or lyfts. They always have a camera,
20:41
Speaker 1: may or may not have a camera. Okay, let's go
20:44
Speaker 1: with this question, door dash delivery person. Okay, you guys
20:47
Speaker 1: are very familiar with the timeline. What do you make
20:50
Speaker 1: of the door dash delivery so close to the time
20:53
Speaker 1: of the murder, Cheryl McCollum, I think it very well
20:56
Speaker 1: may have been his opening. If he was in the
20:59
Speaker 1: watch area, he saw maybe she opened the door and
21:01
Speaker 1: just closed it right back. She didn't maybe engage the
21:04
Speaker 1: lock that gave him his little entry into the home.
21:08
Speaker 1: You know, here's a good question from Jennifer, and guys,
21:10
Speaker 1: everybody on the panel, jump in if you have a thought. Jennifer,
21:13
Speaker 1: we know he spent a lot of time scoping the
21:15
Speaker 1: house prior to that night. We know it was a
21:18
Speaker 1: party house when I lived in. When I was in college,
21:21
Speaker 1: I lived in a party house. We never questioned strangers
21:24
Speaker 1: who stopped in. We always thought they were just friends
21:26
Speaker 1: of friends. I wonder if he ever drove by when
21:29
Speaker 1: there was a party and actually went in. Wow, Okay,
21:34
Speaker 1: this guy was socially awkward, but he also tried to
21:40
Speaker 1: make friends with people, and in fact, some of his
21:42
Speaker 1: neighbors would try to get away from him because he
21:44
Speaker 1: wanted to talk so much. Who was that was that?
21:46
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnough or David Leroy? That was Nancy? Jump in,
21:51
Speaker 1: go ahead. You know what this guy's ego that would
21:54
Speaker 1: not surprise me if he tried to, you know, blend
22:00
Speaker 1: into a party scene. Oh you mean like James Bond
22:04
Speaker 1: going into the casino, acting all natural, like he's really gambling. Yeah,
22:09
Speaker 1: got it. I could see that too, now that you're
22:11
Speaker 1: saying it that way and really getting off on it.
22:14
Speaker 1: What about that, Cheryl. I'm going to come back to you, Chris.
22:16
Speaker 1: Can't you see him trying to blend into a party?
22:20
Speaker 1: I have a nineteen year old girl, and there is
22:22
Speaker 1: no way an almost thirty year old man would blend
22:25
Speaker 1: into a party she was at. He would stick out
22:28
Speaker 1: like a door song. Well I know that, and you
22:31
Speaker 1: know that, but other partygoers would have come forward. By Now,
22:35
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a classic quote from Caddyshack.
22:40
Speaker 1: If you want to catch a varmint, you got to
22:42
Speaker 1: think like a varmint. This guy was so obsessed with
22:45
Speaker 1: this house and these girls. Back to you, Chris McDonald,
22:49
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, can't you see him trying to get closer
22:52
Speaker 1: and closer and closer to the interior of that home? Absolutely?
22:55
Speaker 1: And look what he used to do in the bars
22:57
Speaker 1: where he would project himselfish ladies man, and of course
23:02
Speaker 1: you know the radar would go up with the women.
23:06
Speaker 1: Was like, you know, this guy is just an oddball here.
23:09
Speaker 1: I could see him in trying to blend in and
23:14
Speaker 1: a chameleon, as a chameleon into the college environment. Now
23:17
Speaker 1: would he fit No, of course not. But his eagle
23:22
Speaker 1: will not stop him from trying. I'm trying to take
23:26
Speaker 1: in everything you guys are saying from j y L.
23:31
Speaker 1: What do you think about the fact he told the
23:33
Speaker 1: defense attorney in Pennsylvania, Hello police again that he was
23:36
Speaker 1: quote eager to be exonerated. Hey, Jackie, could you play
23:41
Speaker 1: the sound of the lawyer to answer jy L's question.
23:46
Speaker 1: I want to examine that the sound that we talked about,
23:48
Speaker 1: where the lawyer is stating verbatim what Koberger told him.
23:52
Speaker 1: Let's hear that, jack Thanks. Jason Labar says he first
23:55
Speaker 1: met his client at the Monroe County Correctional Facility. Ordinary
24:00
Speaker 1: rich type guy, he says. The first thing he said
24:02
Speaker 1: to the suspect was, don't tell me anything about the case.
24:05
Speaker 1: Don't tell me any facts. That's information for your Idaho attorney.
24:09
Speaker 1: He was very calm, he was aware of what was
24:12
Speaker 1: going on. He was aware of the murders. He says
24:15
Speaker 1: his client was intentional about what was said on his
24:18
Speaker 1: behalf in the statement to the public. The statement that
24:21
Speaker 1: was written was written by myself in my office. But
24:25
Speaker 1: be exonerated. The ear to be exonerated was his key
24:30
Speaker 1: specifically said eager to be exonerated, rather than he was
24:34
Speaker 1: innocent or something like that. Did you hear his words
24:39
Speaker 1: Coburger's Awards through his lawyer, I'm eager to be exonerated,
24:46
Speaker 1: as opposed to I didn't do this, I had nothing
24:48
Speaker 1: to do with this. I'm eager to be exonerated. Why
24:53
Speaker 1: do you make of that? Guys, let's go to our shrink,
24:56
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist out of Atlanta. Why do you
24:59
Speaker 1: make of that warning? It's like he lives above the fray.
25:03
Speaker 1: It's like he's got some sort of grandiosity to him.
25:06
Speaker 1: And you know, I'll tell y'all something. I know that
25:10
Speaker 1: we're trying to say that somehow he was attached to
25:13
Speaker 1: these girls that he killed. I don't see that there
25:16
Speaker 1: was an attachment that he had. It was a it
25:19
Speaker 1: was something that he wanted to carry out. It's like
25:22
Speaker 1: an experiment, doctor Angie. It's like one of his freaky experiments,
25:26
Speaker 1: like those questionnaires, he would send a valance. He has
25:29
Speaker 1: no remorse about it. This is an action that he
25:33
Speaker 1: wanted to carry out. Okay, if psychopaths don't have any
25:38
Speaker 1: strong inhibitions about physically injuring other people, then I can
25:42
Speaker 1: promise you they don't have any inhibitions about walking into
25:45
Speaker 1: a party house and trying to make themselves comfortable in there.
25:51
Speaker 1: They think differently than other people do, and I know
25:55
Speaker 1: that it is very hard to understand. But this man
25:57
Speaker 1: is a psychopath all day long, and he thinks differently
26:02
Speaker 1: than we do, and that's why it's hard for us
26:05
Speaker 1: to pinpoint exactly how he was thinking through all of them.
26:08
Speaker 1: Here's a question from Corey. How dark is a surrounding
26:10
Speaker 1: area near the house at night? Corey, it's pitch black.
26:15
Speaker 1: It is pitch black and inside, Hey, Sydney, is that
26:19
Speaker 1: bottom guys? Is that bottom light on the right on
26:22
Speaker 1: the home still turned on? Because when we drove up
26:25
Speaker 1: in the dark this morning, we were really early getting
26:28
Speaker 1: year and the light is on the bottom right it
26:34
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like it's on now, but I know
26:36
Speaker 1: nobody's going in that house, but it was on this morning,
26:39
Speaker 1: it appears to be off. Now, hold on, Christ mcdone,
26:44
Speaker 1: I think that was you can I tell you it's
26:46
Speaker 1: so dark, Corey, that when the inside of the home
26:49
Speaker 1: is lit up, you can see everything. I tried to
26:54
Speaker 1: take pictures of it and post so everybody could see.
26:57
Speaker 1: But it's like you're watching a movie where you're in
27:00
Speaker 1: the dark, and the movies and the light. That's how
27:04
Speaker 1: the dark works around this home. It seems as if
27:08
Speaker 1: it illuminates the inside of the home. That's from Corey.
27:11
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Chris Nancy, right where you're standing there the
27:14
Speaker 1: apartment complex, you know up at the top. Yeah, up
27:18
Speaker 1: there that light that was not working the night of
27:21
Speaker 1: the incident, that that light was out, so it would
27:25
Speaker 1: have been even darker. It was darker. And another thing
27:28
Speaker 1: to Corey who sent me this question. I was sitting
27:30
Speaker 1: right here last night, and I can look across. The
27:33
Speaker 1: street is so tight here, The streets are so narrow.
27:37
Speaker 1: This must be a really old area of town, because
27:40
Speaker 1: the apartments look very old. I can sit right here
27:43
Speaker 1: and look, and I can tell you what kind of
27:45
Speaker 1: soda can they have on their ledge? Right there, I
27:50
Speaker 1: can see what the guy was cooking for dinner. Right
27:53
Speaker 1: in that window, and I just wonder. Another person asked
27:57
Speaker 1: how long had he been watching and stalking of the girls.
28:00
Speaker 1: Did you catch in the problem? Cause after David David
28:05
Speaker 1: Leroy David Leroy joining me, a high profile lawyer out
28:08
Speaker 1: of Boise, Idaho, this is his neck of the woods,
28:10
Speaker 1: the cops said, at least twelve times, we've got him
28:15
Speaker 1: at the murder house. Well, ab certainly would be no accident.
28:18
Speaker 1: You don't show up at that particular locale without an
28:21
Speaker 1: intend to be in the neighborhood. And if that's as
28:25
Speaker 1: if visible is indicated, obviously many things were seen and
28:30
Speaker 1: many things were available to be seen. At least caught
28:35
Speaker 1: my attention, Cheryl McCollum, which tells me that he was
28:38
Speaker 1: here many, many more times than twelve. They only gave
28:42
Speaker 1: a nothing that Advidavid to arrest him. They have got
28:47
Speaker 1: so much more information on him, so much more evidence
28:51
Speaker 1: on him. I think it's going to be mind boggling.
28:53
Speaker 1: But Nancy, let me finish my point about the party, please,
28:56
Speaker 1: so your listener can hear this. Yeah, even I mentioned
28:59
Speaker 1: that about Caroline, and he would have stuck out to her.
29:01
Speaker 1: The two surviving roommates and any other person at that
29:05
Speaker 1: party now have his face, they would have already told
29:08
Speaker 1: law enforcement he'd been in the house. So again they're
29:10
Speaker 1: going to already know that because he would have stuck
29:13
Speaker 1: out like a thirty year old dude, not doing a
29:15
Speaker 1: keke Dan, not drinking mystery shots, and not dancing, which
29:19
Speaker 1: makes me think he may not have ever entered the hall.
29:21
Speaker 1: But I guarantee you, Cheryl, he got as close as
29:23
Speaker 1: he could, even maybe up on the porch to where
29:27
Speaker 1: that sliding glass door. And they're two sliding glass doors.
29:29
Speaker 1: There's one on the side and one on the back.
29:31
Speaker 1: Oh here's another thing I've learned. You know, at the beginning,
29:34
Speaker 1: we were speculating that from this angle on the street
29:39
Speaker 1: you see that entrance. Only only when you come around
29:42
Speaker 1: to the side do you see the sliding glass door
29:45
Speaker 1: entrance on the second floor, and there's another on the back.
29:48
Speaker 1: We were completely wrong. There's no way you can look
29:52
Speaker 1: at this house, even from the front and not know
29:54
Speaker 1: that there are entrances elsewhere. Because when you come up
29:58
Speaker 1: on the house, when you drive up on it and
30:00
Speaker 1: see the side, so you see the side before you
30:03
Speaker 1: see the front, so you would see the other entrances.
30:18
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. Another question people are wondering,
30:27
Speaker 1: let's go to a why the call from roommate to
30:29
Speaker 1: nine on one state it was an unconscious person. Clearly
30:33
Speaker 1: it was a bloody scene. There is speculation that one
30:37
Speaker 1: of the roommates passed out and wouldn't wake up. I
30:42
Speaker 1: find that to be too coincidental. I think that they
30:46
Speaker 1: call nine one one about the dead bodies. What do
30:49
Speaker 1: you think, guys? I agree if we take into consideration
30:52
Speaker 1: the roommate who witnessed the perpetrator. Her room is directly
31:00
Speaker 1: below where Kaylie and Madison where their lives were taken,
31:05
Speaker 1: so she had to have heard a lot of information
31:10
Speaker 1: going down which put her well. I find the phrasing
31:14
Speaker 1: in the APPI Davit where the investigator says the frozen state,
31:19
Speaker 1: and so there's a variety of other things taking place
31:23
Speaker 1: here in her statement that we're just not privy to
31:27
Speaker 1: at this point. And so that wouldn't surprise me that
31:31
Speaker 1: that trauma took over and she either froze for quite
31:36
Speaker 1: some time, because that suspect, not only was she listening
31:42
Speaker 1: to what was going on, she heard him, she saw him,
31:46
Speaker 1: and then at this point that really must have played
31:51
Speaker 1: a major role in her psyche and relationship to her
31:54
Speaker 1: being potentially taken as well. I also heard a speculation
31:59
Speaker 1: that was simply and in the very early initial dispatch
32:04
Speaker 1: category that was entered into the record when somebody called
32:08
Speaker 1: in and without any detail, the unconscious person was entered
32:14
Speaker 1: in the logs. I think that's just as logical as
32:17
Speaker 1: somebody not fully describing what they did see. Guys, here's
32:22
Speaker 1: some more questions. Here's Jackson on Twitter. I'd like to
32:24
Speaker 1: see how far the house is from the school and
32:27
Speaker 1: all the reporting we see the house and the town.
32:29
Speaker 1: How close is the school from home? Guys? Is the
32:32
Speaker 1: Sigma Kai house on school property? Oh? It's just off, Actually,
32:37
Speaker 1: it's off. Well, I would say that we're only maybe
32:42
Speaker 1: two blocks from where the school starts, Max, And that's
32:47
Speaker 1: as the growth lies. Because I'm looking over, I can
32:51
Speaker 1: see campus from here. That's correct. That ridge up there said,
32:54
Speaker 1: isn't that campus? Yeah? I see everybody going to class
32:58
Speaker 1: from here. People are going down this stretch right here,
33:03
Speaker 1: going to and from class as we're talking. So it's
33:06
Speaker 1: really really close. Again, the streets are so tight, there's
33:10
Speaker 1: no way if there have been surveillance videocams here that
33:13
Speaker 1: they would not have caught the car. Okay, here's here's one.
33:18
Speaker 1: The dad anyway, he was aware his son was involved,
33:21
Speaker 1: especially after the FBI was looking for a white car.
33:24
Speaker 1: If he didn't not the dad did not know that
33:27
Speaker 1: Ellie was looking for a white launcher, he would probably
33:30
Speaker 1: be the only one in the country that didn't know.
33:32
Speaker 1: And then he goes and gets his son in Pullman
33:35
Speaker 1: ten minutes from the murder scene and drives him home.
33:39
Speaker 1: I mean, how could he not know? Nancy? I think
33:42
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things to point out about Dad.
33:44
Speaker 1: Was he sent there, you know, in recent days to
33:49
Speaker 1: drive back with him, or was that something planned before
33:51
Speaker 1: the murders. I'd like to it was long plan, and
33:55
Speaker 1: it was long plan. He'd stop my law enforcement dad
33:58
Speaker 1: is answering questions for him to the officer. Is that
34:01
Speaker 1: something he typically one of them say they were going
34:03
Speaker 1: for ty food? Said it? Who the hey would say
34:09
Speaker 1: we're going for ty food on the day I'm driving home.
34:13
Speaker 1: That's a lie, right. His parents also had to know,
34:16
Speaker 1: and this is where patterns come in. How often did
34:18
Speaker 1: he take out the trash? I bet he didn't never
34:21
Speaker 1: take it out with a four am Brian, how many
34:25
Speaker 1: times in the freezing cold that he'd cleaned his car?
34:28
Speaker 1: I bet never. Here's another question, guys from the v ee.
34:33
Speaker 1: How big are the windows? Could he see? I guess
34:37
Speaker 1: she's sucking about d s in DM and bedrooms. Maybe
34:43
Speaker 1: lights on if he was looking from a distance before
34:45
Speaker 1: or after the crime. Oh my goodness, they're big and
34:49
Speaker 1: they don't have the criss cross panes in them. They're
34:51
Speaker 1: just big, clear paned windows. What would you say that?
34:57
Speaker 1: They're about four by four windows? Three by four. They're big.
35:02
Speaker 1: They looked to be the windows that you slide open
35:05
Speaker 1: horizontally because they're not pained. There's nothing obscuring his vision.
35:12
Speaker 1: Here's from Gina. Everyone saying Dylan locked eyes with the killer.
35:17
Speaker 1: That's not in the PC document. Any idea of the
35:20
Speaker 1: killer actually saw her as he was leaving. I would
35:23
Speaker 1: say a big note of that. That's online rumors that
35:27
Speaker 1: they locked eyes. Nobody has said that except on social media.
35:31
Speaker 1: And I think if the killer actually locked eyes with
35:34
Speaker 1: her or saw her, he would have killed her. Two.
35:37
Speaker 1: He walked through the room that was totally dark with
35:40
Speaker 1: that neon light shining that said good vibes, And I
35:45
Speaker 1: think amazingly, he walked right by her. Here was a
35:51
Speaker 1: question about how far the house is from the school.
35:54
Speaker 1: Here's a really good one from Kara. Any unsolved murders
35:58
Speaker 1: in a sixty mile radius from Pullman since this summer?
36:01
Speaker 1: How about sixteen miles from his home in Pennsylvania, New Jersey,
36:05
Speaker 1: New York? What about that? I mean, how likely is it,
36:09
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, that he goes from zero to one
36:13
Speaker 1: hundred mph on his first try, that he goes into
36:17
Speaker 1: a home and in sixteen minutes stabs dead four people
36:23
Speaker 1: and almost gets away with it. And of course he's
36:26
Speaker 1: assumed innocent until proven guilty. We know that. But that
36:31
Speaker 1: does that happen overnight? Or is this just round two
36:35
Speaker 1: or three for him? I believe it's going to be
36:37
Speaker 1: round two or three or ten for him. And I
36:41
Speaker 1: have a feeling we have found a serial killer that
36:44
Speaker 1: has been living amongst us, and I shudder to think
36:48
Speaker 1: that what we're going to discover that he's done, I
36:51
Speaker 1: really did. What do you think, guys, anybody else want
36:53
Speaker 1: to jump in on that? Do you think this is
36:55
Speaker 1: his first time? I don't. I believe that he's a
36:59
Speaker 1: mesh murder who is in development to become a cereal.
37:04
Speaker 1: And I think some of the programs that the FEDS,
37:07
Speaker 1: you know the ViCAP program for an example of the
37:10
Speaker 1: Violent Information Criminal Apprehension Program, all this data is going
37:14
Speaker 1: to be put into that, and then that will flow
37:16
Speaker 1: into NCIC. And I think at this point, investigators from
37:20
Speaker 1: around the country, if he is a surreal, we'll start
37:25
Speaker 1: doing an investigative analysis and do some comparisons. Yeah, you
37:29
Speaker 1: know this is this Chris mcdonna speaking Chris, I can
37:33
Speaker 1: guarantee you that they have already taken a vehicle swab
37:36
Speaker 1: or some people say a buckle swab out of his mouth.
37:38
Speaker 1: It's like sticking a Q tip in there and rubbing
37:41
Speaker 1: it against the inside lining of your mouth. And now
37:44
Speaker 1: they have You get that through a search warrant. Just
37:46
Speaker 1: like you get a search warrant for a home or
37:47
Speaker 1: a car or a safe deposit box. You get a
37:50
Speaker 1: search wart for a person, and you can get their
37:53
Speaker 1: blood type, you can get their DNA from the inside
37:56
Speaker 1: their mouth, you can get pubic hares, you can get
37:59
Speaker 1: a lot from there. Is considered a search under the
38:01
Speaker 1: Fourth Amendment of our Constitution. Now that they have his DNA,
38:06
Speaker 1: it can be compared to DNA found at crime scenes
38:10
Speaker 1: all across the country, and I can only assume that's
38:13
Speaker 1: happening right now. Here's another question, get ready, David Leroy,
38:18
Speaker 1: I want to know if any of your legal experts
38:20
Speaker 1: are concerned about the basis for the initial initial search
38:23
Speaker 1: warrant for his sales GEO location. And I gotta say no,
38:29
Speaker 1: because when they got the restaurant, they had to have
38:33
Speaker 1: PC for that. They had to have PC for that.
38:36
Speaker 1: They also had to have probable cause to get his
38:38
Speaker 1: cell phone records. And what they had at that time
38:43
Speaker 1: is a white Elantra close to the murder scene. And
38:47
Speaker 1: two WSU Washington State University cops spotted the white Elantra
38:54
Speaker 1: right there in Pullman, ten minutes away from the murder scene.
38:59
Speaker 1: And what we didn't know at the time that we
39:02
Speaker 1: learned later is d M had already given her description
39:07
Speaker 1: of a tall, white male with bushy eyebrows, athletic but
39:13
Speaker 1: not muscular. So these two cops at WSU c the Elantra.
39:20
Speaker 1: They connected back through the college registration to Coburger, So
39:27
Speaker 1: they've got his name and they've got the Elantra, and
39:29
Speaker 1: he fits d m's description of the purp. That's more
39:35
Speaker 1: than enough PC to get a search warrant for his
39:39
Speaker 1: cell phone. Would you disagree or agree? David Leroy, I'm slar.
39:44
Speaker 1: Your argument is very compelling. This is meant to buy
39:47
Speaker 1: the book in terms of the investigation and in terms
39:51
Speaker 1: of the logical steps the police have taken. I think
39:53
Speaker 1: you very nicely summarized where that went and likely what
39:58
Speaker 1: the effa they've been in support of the So here's
40:01
Speaker 1: another question for Stephanie. I'm curious about the previously reported
40:05
Speaker 1: automatic locks on each of the bedroom doors. How did
40:08
Speaker 1: he get in? Were they propped open or were those
40:11
Speaker 1: reports of automatic locks not true? We got the reports
40:15
Speaker 1: from an automatic locks on each bedroom door from a
40:20
Speaker 1: previous tenant. I cannot imagine that they have been removed. However,
40:26
Speaker 1: we don't know whether the doors were propped open to
40:29
Speaker 1: avoid sticking in the code every time they went in
40:32
Speaker 1: and out of the room, which is entirely possible. But Kelly,
40:37
Speaker 1: looking right down behind me, the automatic the keypad on
40:41
Speaker 1: the door lock is still there. I think I noticed
40:43
Speaker 1: it last night. But I think it's much more likely
40:47
Speaker 1: he came in through a sliding glass door and that
40:49
Speaker 1: the bedroom doors that he got into were not totally closed.
40:54
Speaker 1: That would be my best guests. Also, hold on, guys,
41:00
Speaker 1: why did they wait so long to arrest him? It
41:03
Speaker 1: seems like they knew it was him, They suspect that
41:06
Speaker 1: it was him, or much earlier. Why let risk letting him,
41:10
Speaker 1: letting him get away or commit another crime. I think
41:13
Speaker 1: because they wanted to stake him out and see what
41:16
Speaker 1: he would do, like wash his car inside and out
41:20
Speaker 1: in the early morning hours and the freezing cold outside,
41:24
Speaker 1: like throw his DNA in trash into the neighbor's receptacle.
41:28
Speaker 1: What do you think, Cheryl McCall him? Why did they
41:30
Speaker 1: take so long, Nancy? I think they were waiting for
41:32
Speaker 1: the DNA to come back. I think that was done
41:35
Speaker 1: so quickly. I think once they got the sample, they
41:38
Speaker 1: got the profile and it matched the trash. I think
41:41
Speaker 1: that's what they were waiting. Now, guys, we are still
41:44
Speaker 1: taking all of your questions. Find us on social on ANSTA,
41:48
Speaker 1: on Facebook, on Twitter. Let me hear your questions. We'll
41:52
Speaker 1: try to answer them. We are live here in Moscow,
41:56
Speaker 1: just outside the murders singing. I can tell you right now,
42:00
Speaker 1: the silence and the pall over this whole area remains.
42:06
Speaker 1: We wait as the evidence unfolds. I'll see in court
42:10
Speaker 1: to morrow for that status hearing. Goodbye friend,