Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Ruby Ridge Incident - Part 1

Transcript

The Ruby Ridge Incident - Part 1 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: A dream for many people today is finding a piece
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: of land, often a beautiful, secluded place to call home,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to get away from the ever growing, faster pace of
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the world. Each and every one of the people who
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: share this dream have their own reasons for it, and
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the Weaver family was no different when they bought their
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: twenty acre dream property. However, as time unfolded, this dream
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: property would become a home of a nightmare shootout as
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a group of military men slowly infiltrated their lives and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: open fire. This is the story of Ruby Ridge.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Wicked and.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: The following.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: More mature audience listener discretion. The holiday season is over
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and it's officially twenty twenty four.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: That's wild, Oh happy New Year.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I had to like force that out of Nicole. I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: was pointing at it for a minute. What's going on?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit I have a little bit of
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: a cold, and so I was just like not present.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I had no idea what the freak was going on.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Well, when someone says it's the new year, generally it's
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: foiled up with a happy New Year.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, generally, I suppose I.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Was giving you that opportunity and you just like gave
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: me a sar. You guys won't know the awkwardness that
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: happened because it was so awkward and blank that I'm
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: going to be editing it. But it was just silence
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: for like thirty seconds. Is Nicole stared at me and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I silently tried to give her hints to say happy new.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, I should be in bed. It
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: should be clearly bear with me, please, I.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Should be in bed too. I've been just working my
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: ass off today non stop.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: You have.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've done good, But that's besides the point. You
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: guys don't want to hear stories of working her butts off.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: That's no fun.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: No, you want to hear stories of true crime and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: stories of people being assholes to people, I guess.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Because other people, because they suck to humanity.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: To humanity. Yeah, and some people are getting a little
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: extra of those stories. Are our patrons so over on
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Patreon this week we had Julianne I'm sorry, Julian Santos
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: and Michelle Smith both sign up. They're getting extra episodes
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes, all that good stuff over around Patreon.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Do you want to sign up? Link is down below.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: If you don't, Hey, that's totally cool. You're here. That's awesome.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much. And do you want
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to just drop what episode we just dropped for our patrons?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I certainly can. It was the murder of Kimberly Kates.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: It's really disturbing.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It's a doozy. That one's a doozy. Yeah, to be fair,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Today's episode here that you're about to listen to as
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a doozy too, but just in a whole other sense.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: That one was just murderous and what the fuck? Yeah,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and this one's more like conspiracy sort of situation. Okay,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: but it's still trust me, this is a wild ride
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: this one today too. But before we get into that,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: we still have a bunch of other stuff that we
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: got to talk about, particularly some of the stuff going
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: on over in our YouTube because Wicked and Grim will
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: soon be in video form over on our YouTube channel,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: so you will be able to not only listen to
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: our podcast every Tuesday, but in the days following it,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: we will then upload a video form of it so
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you can watch us behind the scenes in our tiny
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: home do it as well.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Our reactions to what is going on, Yeah, which is
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: kind of cool but also kind of sad because, to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: be honest, half the time when we're recording, I literally
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: look like I am a homeless person, so do I
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So I feel like I have to at least like
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: put a bra on and stuff.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Nah, you're good, They're good. I don't think people care
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: what we look like. They just want to, you know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy the part of being there because I know, if
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I'm being honest, I think part of our podcast is like,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: we like you guys to feel like you're sitting here
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: having a drink, talking or chatting with us. Yeah, So
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: if we put it in video form I think it's
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: going to add to that experience even more.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I didn't say I was gonna get all dulled up.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna put up brall on.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: So, you know, isn't that getting dulled up. We also
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: had some pretty cool stuff going over on YouTube. In
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: preparation for starting to post, we did a vlogness, which
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: we mentioned a little bit.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we I think we ended up getting fourteen
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: or so videos we wanted to get like the whole month,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: But I mean it was still a win because We
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: went fourteen more videos than we usually do in a.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Month exactly, so that's a win. Yeah, it was fun.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: You should go check those videos out.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It was fun.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: All you have to do is look up a Wicked Life.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: That's where we'll be uploading everything. If you don't want
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to look it up, hey, link is in the description
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of this podcast right here.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: With all of that being said, are you ready? I'm
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: ready for the Ruby Ridge Incident?
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think you are.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: That was a song. I resisted every urge to start.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Singing, what What's what?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think you're ready for this?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Oh God, I don't think you're ready. Fold this My
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: body too delicious, your babe? Was that the song you're
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah, I don't think you are ready for this.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: But I will forewarn everyone. This is a two parter.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: So this is the first part to the Ruby Ridge
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Incident because there is a whole slew if honestly, if
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: we did like a serious deep dive on this, we
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: could probably have like a five six seven part serials.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It is a massive thing, really, because there's allegations left,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: right and center. He said, she said this isn't true,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: but this is like, it's wow, it is a wild
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole. A lot of it is like circumstantial or
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: it's allegations and there's no real evidence for it. So
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: it's just, yeah, I'm trying to stick to all the
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: facts on this one. There are some situations where we
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: have to go with like the allegation stuff for what
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: certain people claimed how it happened, because we just have
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: no other way to go, so we just kind of
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: go with the most accepted route of that story. Yeah,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that's fair, but we are sticking with as much of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the facts as we can in this. So with all
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of that, you ready for it, I'm ready, Okay, Well,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: let's start the Ruby Ridge incident.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: So.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge is a place that is situated in the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: south southernmost section of a group of ridges extending east
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of the Bottleneck Slash Roman Nose Mountain Range towards the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Cootney River. Caribou Ridge lies to the north, with the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Ruby Creek draining the area between them. Now, the term
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge was coined by the press to describe the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: events that transpired on the property situated on Caribou Ridge
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: in the Boundary County of Idaho. This location is approximately
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes, sorry, thirty miles south of the Canadian border
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of British Columbia.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not gonna lie, but I thought Ruby Ridge
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: was a person.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Noe, Ruby Ridge is a location. Okay, yeah, most certainly
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a location. Now, this story encompasses an individual by the
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: name of Randy Weaver. Now. Randy was born in Velliska,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Ohio in nineteen forty eight, and he had a unique
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: life journey. After graduating high school in nineteen sixty six,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: he initially enrolled in community college and met his future wife,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Vicki Jordison, despite successfully completing a Green Beret training, which
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: is a division of a particular badass special forces in
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the United States Military in preparation for deployment in Vietnam. So, like,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: just to clarify, Green Berets are like some of the
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: most badass special forces like in the world. Like they
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: are badass. Like that's all I can say to describe them,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: because they're fucking badass. Like these are the kind of
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: guys that like sneak up on dudes in the middle
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: of the night and like slice them open and keep
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: going on with like not even the thought, like the mission.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So really like laser focus.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Like their machines. So he successfully completed that Green Beret
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: training and Randy was stationed in Fort Bragg, North Carolina,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and was discharged in nineteen seventy one without ever seeing combat. Okay, yeah, Now,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in that same year as his discharge, Randy married the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: love of his life, Vicki, and the couple settled in
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Cedar Falls, Iowa. Due to financial constraints, Randy dropped out
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: of Northern Iowa University and the couple worked various odd
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: jobs to make ends meet, which I think is rather relatable,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: especially in today's society and all the increase in prices
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: this past year or two.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the cost of living is outrageous.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: It's wild. Now. Throughout their life, Randy and Vicki Weaver
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: maintained a close relationship with their spiritual beliefs, referring to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: God as yahweah or yawe. I'm not sure how you
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: pronounce that exactly. I'm assuming maybe yahwe but either way,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and studying the Bible nightly. In the nineteen seventies, influenced
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: by the Arab Israeli War, they were beginning to become
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: convinced that a biblical doomsday and prophecies were unfolding, and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: soon the end of the world would be coming.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Oh that's like terrifying, though.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine actually thinking, for one reason or another,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: whether it's religious beliefs or just personal beliefs, that the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: end of the world is legitimately coming.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: That you've convinced yourself that. I mean, I feel like
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: there's enough stresses in the world.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I would rather live in ignorance where I don't see
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: it coming, and.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: It's just like over I agree.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Actually, at least that way I can just I don't know,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss right, So yeah, now,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Vicki actually even shared a reoccurring dream with Randy, one
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: where she had been envisioning a mountaintop retreat where their
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: family would be safe and the impending evil of the apocalypse. Now.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: This dream and belief led the Weavers to plan for
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: their future, with Randy acquiring weapons they deemed necessary for
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: family protection during the apocalypse or armageddon. Right in nineteen
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: eighty two, the Weavers welcomed their third child, Rachel, and
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the following year they sold their possessions and home and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: began seeking guidance from the Amish community on living without electricity.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: They then purchased twenty acres of land on the now
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: known Ruby Ridge area of northern Idaho and built a
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: rudimentary cabin without electricity or running water. Here they began
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: their life in the wilds of the mountain, and Vicki
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: homeschooled their children, a practice that was actually a violation
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of law in Idaho.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Oh really, Okay.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: So that they're like going full out into the wild
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: on top of this like mountainous ridge and just they're
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: doing it, huh.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, the thought of living without like electricity
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and water. I mean I get electricity in a sense,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: but water, like, gosh, that seems so difficult.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: That's a life necessity. You need that. Yeah, without water,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you're dead.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I mean I can last probably twice as long without
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: or sorry without electricity than water. If I'm dead within
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: ten days with electricity, it's gonna be twenty days without
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: internet before I die.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Oh so you're sure about that?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe eighteen sixteen somewhere in there. I need the Internet.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I love me some memes, you sure do. Plus, how
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: would we upload a podcast?
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I know that's true.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, over time, the Weavers integrated themselves into the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: local community as well, it's in the surrounding area, even
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: taking in a troubled teenager into their home by the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: name of Kevin Harris.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's nice.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Life in their home was mostly smooth for the Weavers,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: but perfection took a hit in nineteen eighty four when
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Randy Weaver and his neighbor Terry Kinnison found themselves in
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a dispute over three thousand, eight three thousand dollars land deal. Now,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: after losing the subsequent lawsuit, Terry was ordered to pay
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the Weavers an additional twenty one hundred dollars in court
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: costs and damages, which of course soured the relationship at
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: least even further.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess, especially back then, that's a big
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: chunk of money.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is eighty four. Yeah, so we're talking.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: He owed them a total of five thousand, one hundred dollars. Okay,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I imagine that's probably somewhere in the vicinity of twenty
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to thirty grand or something like that.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that that's significant for sure. Now, in the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: aftermath of this math of this dispute, Terry allegedly took
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: revenge on writing letters to the FBC or the FBI,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the Secret Service, and the county sheriff accusing Randy Weaver
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: of threatening to kill Pope John Paul the Second, oh
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: President Ronald Reagan, and Idaho Governor John V.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Evans seriously just making up this shit allegedly, Okay, okay, allegedly,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: but still that's some that's some allegations right there.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Definitely, and these are serious allegations that would prompt some
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: serious response.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: So. Now this led to an investigation launched by the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: FBI and the Secret Service in January of nineteen eighty
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: five into the claims of threats against these officials. So
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go on the record here of my
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: own opinion saying that the FBI and Secret Service are
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: launching an investigation into the claims of these threats. Clearly,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: these claims and threats existed, Yeah, for one reason or another, however,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: they existed. These claims that he was threatening these individuals
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: are real.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: But I mean, gosh, I mean, it's not really something
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: they can let go, I suppose. But then also that's
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: kind of scary that someone can just I don't know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: slander you like that kind of you know.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Well, slander only goes so far too right. And I
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: mean we see that today on the internet cancel culture
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. There's people out there who like
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: try to cancel in individuals who it's like they didn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: actually do anything. You need some fucking evidence to do
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: some shit, totally. It's a matter of if you jump
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: on the bandwagon and make the assumptions, you need the facts.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And that's what the FBI and Secret Services were doing.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: They were looking in to see if there was some
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: facts to back it up.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Now, on February twelfth that same year, Randy and his
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: wife underwent interviews with two FBI agents, two Secret Service agents,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and a Boundary County sheriff and his chief investigator. The
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Secret Service had been informed that Randy was also associated
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: with Aryan Nations, which was a white supremacist terrorist organization
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and had substantial weapons cached at a residents and or property.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Randy denied these allegations and no charges were filed by
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the government. Now, while the investigation was going on, it
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: was revealed that the Weavers had in fact actually attended
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the Aryan Nations meeting at Hate Lake. Randy clarified this
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: though he clarified that he and his associate, Frank Kumnik,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: were not members, but acknowledged that Frank had an affiliation
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: with other reported similar groups like the Covenant, the Sword
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: and the Arm and the Lord. So he's associated with
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: these groups by proxy sort of thing, not actually being
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: within them, okay, but he did in fact attend meetings,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: so he's got some friends and associates within these groups. So,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: in a proactive move, the Weavers actually filed a legal
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: affid David with the County Courtroom on February twenty eighth,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: alleging that their personal enemies were plotting to incite the
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: FBI into attacking and killing their family. Basically, what that
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: means is they went to the court and filed a
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: legal document with these statements saying that these people have
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the these people trying to do this thing.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it's kind of on record, it's.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Recorded, documented, can be used in court evidence if something occurs.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It's a legal thing that is filed away. So right now,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have to have reason who I can't
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: just randomly do it. But right now, if I go
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to the court and say my wife is trying to
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: kill me, I think she's trying to do this this,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: And then a week or a month later, I die
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: mysteriously and they think it's you. They can use that.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: It's evidence against you in court.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's good that they did this.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Then, oh definitely yeah. Now, later on May sixth, the
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Weavers also sent a letter a letter to President Reagan
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: suggesting that their adversaries might have sent him a threatening
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: letter under a forged signature, although no evidence of such
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a letter ever emerged. Now to worse than the view
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of the Weavers on the public and the government view.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: In the late nineteen eighties, media coverage began highlighting militia
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: groups in the Northwest. The stories often featured footage of
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: families and camouflage engaging in military style drills with weapons,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and the media portrayed these groups as radical right wing
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: extremists seeking to overthrow the government, eliciting fear and anger
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: from the public and prompting calls for congressional action. Now,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: whether or not true, whether anyone believed it or not,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: it certainly would have planted a bit of a seed
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: in the mind of some and could have played a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: small part in things to come.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: H Okay, this I think you said mentioned this case
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: is quite different. It makes you really they have to
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: use your nogain.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: It's the rabbit holes after rabbit after rabbit holes on
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: this and you can go for days on it. It's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: a major sort of conspiracy type thing with a lot
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that's going on.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my gears are turning. Just listen in here.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: So where is your head right now in this?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't even know if you can ask
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: me that.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fair enough, fair enough, I mean, well, we'll
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: keep going.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, I think we need I need to hear
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: a bit more once.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: We're at the end of this episode. Then maybe we'll
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: kind of talk on our thoughts and positions and see
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: where we are. So the next up, the involvement of
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms also known and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: how it referred to him from here on out ATF
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: marked a crucial phase in this narrative. So the FBI
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and the ATF initiated operations to infiltrate militia groups, assess
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: potential threats, and apprehend individuals engaged in illegal activities. So
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: groups such as what Randy had mentioned earlier, groups that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: he had ties to groups that they suspected him to
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: be involved in. Right now, Agent Herb Burley, I think
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that is how you say his name. Agent Herb Burley,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: operating as underco as Keith Fadely, established contact with Randy
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Weaver and cultivated a friendship under his new guys. Now,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: despite Randy not being a member of the targeted groups,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the agent singled him out due to his respected the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: respect he commanded within his lifestyle and his connections. So
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: over time, Randy actually developed trust with his undercover we'll
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: call him Kenneth, viewing him as a friend and someone
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: he could actually trust, to say the least. The agent
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: was certainly doing his job well and seeing the opportunity,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: he finally asked if Randy could sell him some shotguns
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: with illegal modifications. He wanted two sought off shotguns to
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: be specific.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, So this is all he's baiting them as.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: What he's doing. It's kind of sad really, because here
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: he thinks he's a new little bestie and really it's
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: not at all.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I think I don't. I think it's bullshit. How authorities
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: can do that, can bake you into that.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they have a relationship, and like, I mean,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: the friend is probably being like telling him why he
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: needs these or why he feels he needs these, and
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: he's gonna want to help his friend. That's what you do,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: you help your friends out.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think there's a moral thing going on here,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just don't think it's fair
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that authorities do that. And I'm going to read a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: little bit more here before I really delve into why
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I think that. But anyways, Randy initially resisted and didn't
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: want to sell anything like that to him.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: However, Randy eventually succumbed to the persistent requests from his friend,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: who claimed to be in dire need of money, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: subsequently he sold him the two sought off shotguns.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So Randy didn't want to sell them to.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: No, he didn't at all.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: He needed money, Yeah, his friend needed money. And I'm
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: not too sure exactly what the situation he's saying is
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: going to do. Maybe rob a bank, I don't know.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: But Randy went has these two very legal shotguns and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: sawed them off because his friend wanted him that way,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: and then sold them to him.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Yikes. So I think that's almost just setting someone.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Off that is. I think that's baiting totally. I think
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: an individual who's undercovered like that could be a part
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of something. Maybe he's trying to get this guy for
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: selling illegal guns. If he can get him to legitimately
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: sell a legal firearm to someone else and be there
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: for it or have evidence of it, I totally think
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that's fine.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean he had to like be very persuasive.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe Randy would never have sold any illegal firearms
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: if it wasn't for the officer in the first place. Yeah,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe the officer is what enlisted him
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: to do an illegal activity in the first place, and
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he never had otherwise. We don't know that.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, which love that at all.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I think is greasy. I think it's baiting, and I
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: think should be illegal.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, I agree.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, as a result, criminal charges were filed against
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Randy Weaver eight months after the gun transaction in October
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty nine. However, Randy was presented with a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: deal if he became an informant and assisted in infiltrating
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: these groups, the charges would be dropped.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you almost wonder if that was just their
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: plan altogether.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Then, Oh, I guarantee it was. They're essentially blackmail. Yeah,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that's what they're doing.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, this just seems so dirty.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, despite facing the prospect of imprisonment, Randy refused
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to betray someone that he considered a friend and flat
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: out declined the offer.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Huh that's uh, that's interesting.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, to me, that shows Randy has better morals than
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the FBI.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: No kidding, It really shows as true colors and this character.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that Randy's a perfect individual,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I mean, he has affiliates with
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: anti Semitic groups. It's questionable at best, But at least
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he's willing to stick up for a friend.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he totally is.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Even went his own necks on the.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Line, and even when he was portrayed by a so
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: called friend. Right.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, six months pass before a warrant was issued
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: for Randy's arrest on the gun charges, but federal agents
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: hesitated to apprehend him at his home, deeming he was
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: too risky due to the families perceived readiness to resist.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And I mean he had firearms apparently, as far as
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the FBI knew, on his property. Because he's selling legal
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: firearms and saw off shotguns. Remember right now, I mean
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to be fair, he does have firearms at his property.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he's going to just
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: like start shooting people.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, they instead began to try and get creative
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: as means to once again ensnare Randy. So what they
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: did they had agents pose as stranded motorists and when
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: they set up a bait on the side of the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: road where Randy would be driving by, they had him
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: stop and try and assist them because they're stranded motorists, right,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: they're stranded, their vehicles broke down sort of thing. When
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: he stopped, they arrested them.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: That seems so bizarre. I don't know, this just seems
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: so weirdless that one.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: To me doesn't seem like entrapment, because it's it's like, hey,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you're wanted. This is just a means to get you. Yeah,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I have no problem with that one person.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I don't necessarily a problem with it, but
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: it just seems like it's so weird like that they're
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: just like it's like they're afraid of him, you know.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, they definitely are. They're afraid of what could happen.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, not only because of what he could do,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: but they he's got kids and stuff too, right at
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: his home. So I mean, if they're going to open fire,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: he opened fire. Maybe he's one as a hostage, or
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: who knows what happens, maybe they mistake him for one
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of his kids and shoot a kid. Like there could
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: be innocent lives that play here. Yeah, so I can
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: totally understand that. So Randy went and appeared before a
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: judge who found probable cause for a trial and released
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: him on a few conditions you know, parole right, including
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: returning to court for the trial. However, the judge misled
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Randy by threatening false claims that he would have to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: surrender his home, land en truck if he was convicted
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: in court. So it's like, yeah, you got to come
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: back for your trial, and just so you know, if
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you're convicted, you're losing your property, everything's gone.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So then his family is just like fuck fucked.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: The trial was initially set for February nineteenth, on nineteen
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: ninety one, but Randy's parole officer mistakenly told him the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: trial instead was scheduled for March twentieth of nineteen ninety one.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: As a result, Randy Weaver failed to appear on the
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: appointed court date, marking him as a fugitive in the
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: eye of the United States Marshall Service or USMS, who
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: was now responsible for arresting in him in now Yes,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: he's a fugitive who did not show up for his
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: court date when he was told otherwise.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Does I feel like this guy has like the worst
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: of luck?
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I think so too, definitely. So, I mean
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that's kind of the situation he's in, unfortunately, but he's.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: To live his life.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just like, I'm going to buy twenty acres
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere and just do my own
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: business and then people are like, we're your business now, bitch,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: like just sticking their nose in that.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: So, despite being considered a fugitive, Randy now remain hold
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: up in his remote home, adamantly declaring his intent to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: resist any attempt for them to apprehend him or remove him. Forcibly, see,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Randy was known for his intense distrust in the government,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure we can understand why, especially at this point,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and the suspicions were compounding over time. This may have
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: played a role in his reluctance to appear for another
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: trial as he grew increasingly suspicious of the government and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: his lawyer and any other law enforcement that was involved
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: in this whatsoever. He's basically thinking that they're trying to
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: conspire against him, which I mean, he has every right
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: to think. So he was set up by them originally.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: He was then blackmailed by them and turned them down.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Then he went to court and was threatened by the judge,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and then also his court date was told to him wrong,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and then he was a fugitive because he didn't show
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: up to the court date that he was told was
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a different date. Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy to me. Yeah,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: And it's really easy to look at that and think
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: it's a conspiracy.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: You would really be questioning a lot of things, like
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I don't blame that.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was convinced that attending the trial would
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: guarantee him we're not sorry, guarantee fair judgment. Specifically, he
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: was now under the impression for the judge like, hey,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: losing his property, his wife can be homeless, kids might
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: be taken away, whatever. And despite eighteen months passing with
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Randy still sitting in his home without government intervention. The
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: ATF had initiated surveillance shortly after his court missed date.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So what this meant They had employed video cameras, aerial photography,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and even sophisticated audio system throughout Weaver's property, including speakers
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: under his kitchen floor, to spy on him at all
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: times and whenever they wanted. How how what do you mean? Hell?
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: How do they do this?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: It's the government? Okay, I'm pretty sure they got bugs
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in everything right now. They track us in our phones
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and stuff at all times. You can't tell me that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: we're not tracked on our phones. Google tracks us. How
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: can the government not be? If they want to know
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: where we are, they can pay us in an instant. Cool, Sorry,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I told you this whole conspiracy stuff here. No shit,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not sitting here saying that the FBI is watching
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: us every second of the day. But if they want
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: to know where we are and what they're doing, I
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: guarantee they can fucking know. Probably yep, Alexa will spill
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: her guts and heartbeats.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I know. Hey.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So that's basically what they had. They had, like cameras,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: audio equipment, all this surveilling his property available to them
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: whenever they needed. The marshals contemplated and discarded several plans
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to try and arrest Randy Weaver. They have all this
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: equipment watching them, listening, and they're trying to use it
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to their advantage to figure out how they can get them. Now,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of their ideas range from cutting the water
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: line that they had because hey, as we already talked, yeah,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: water's pretty important, right.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Is this legal? May I just ask? Or doesn't matter?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: It's the government.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it's the government. But also that's a
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: lot of the reasons why they're not doing some of
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: these things. One of the reasons that they one of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the things they wanted to do they wanted to capture
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: his daughter, Sarah. Yeah, so listen to this, Sarah, the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: eldest daughter. Their plan was during her menstrual cycle because
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they had a designated quote birthing shed. Now, this is
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a whole other thing. I'm not going to get too
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: into it, but this is where one of the family
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: members who when they were experiencing their period, would go
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: to the shed during the course of the period. Basically
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: because of extreme beliefs. It wasn't meant as a form
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: of punishment as far as I can read, it was
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: more just for isolation purposes. But that's besides the point.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Let's just leave it at that. When they had their
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: period the time of the month, they would go in
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: this shed for the duration, then come back in the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: house afterwards. So when she was on her when she
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: was menstruating, they're like, she's going to be in the shed,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and the objective is to apprehend one of the children.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: When they were bringing Sarah some food, compelling Randy to
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: finally surrender, right, This was the grand plan. However, they
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: don't have an arrest warrant for Sarah. That's just straight
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: up kidnapping, no kidding, which is yea, that crime is
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: harsher than selling an illegal firearm. No kidding, you're kidnapping
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a human.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: A kid, Yeah, away from the family.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think it's pretty clear why they didn't
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: go through with that plan. But eventually the ATF formulated
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: a reconnaissance mission plan with agents dressing in full combat
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: gear to close in on the Weaver's property. Now, I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: feel it's important to mention that all the authorities were
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: aware of something here. The marshals observed that Randy and
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: his family responded to vehicles and other visitors by taking
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: up armed positions with guns around the cabin until the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: visitors were recognized and the situation was deemed safe.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, for some reason, when you just announced that,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I visualized us doing something like that, which is really wow.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because we will think that people are
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: just crazy from doing this podcast. Right, So I'm oh,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: someone's coming down the driveway, get my gun. Well, I
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: mean I've always been one of those people. Though. If
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know if someone's coming, they knock on the door,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I don't open the fucking door.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: There's no way I can respect that. Though. There's a
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: lot of messed up shit going on in this world,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: and if someone figures out that you're home alone or
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a situation like that, you can get taken advantage of
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: a heartbeat.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean people lots of times like there's people
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: that pose to the other individuals. He's even like law enforcement, right,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: and yeah, so it's just scary. Yeah, but that is
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: next level.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: It definitely is. But and the authorities were aware of this, Okay,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: they witnessed it firsthand. I'm sure that this happened to
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: them as they're coming up to the property to discuss things,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: because I guarantee like this, there was certain situations where
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: they're coming up and they're talking verbally like they're trying
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: to work things out. I guarantee it. Time and time again.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: They're like, hey, you what you have a warned out
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: your free rest? Can you come with us? It's like, no,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not fucking leaving the cabin right, Okay, we're gonna go.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: You've got to come in. No, I'm not leaving. So
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and then they're trying to figure out ways still talking
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: to them. I mean, like a lot of times going by. Yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: there's certainly going to be conversations one way or another.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: You have to wonder how many guests they ended up
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: having over friends and stuff, you know. Jeez, Yeah, I
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: don't think I would ever go visit the Weavers, no kidding.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: So anyways, they knew that they acted this way. They
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: knew the Weavers were armed and they were willing to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: defend themselves. This was not new information. Now. In August
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: twenty first, nineteen ninety two, six marshals were sent to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: scout the area to determine suitable places away from the
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: cabin to try and apprehend and arrest Randy. The marshals
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: were dressed in full military camouflage gilly suits. Do you
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: know what gilly suit is? I do, actually, Okay, So
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: if anyone out there doesn't know what a gilly suit is,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: it's when those guys addressed head to toe in like
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that Chewbacca looking like forest gear. They look like they're
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: a bush just sitting there. That's what they were wearing,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: these full gilly suits. They were equipped with night vision
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: goggles and M sixteen rifles, full fledged military gear.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: They meant business.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: They meant business. They were prepped. Now, at one point,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: one of the marshals, as they were encroaching in the cabin,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: threw two rocks at the cabin to test the dog's
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the family dog's reaction. Now, the action actually provoked the dog.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It also got Kevin Harris and the fourteen year old son,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Samuel or Sammy to emerge and follow the dog, whose
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: name was Striker. Now the dog was Striker and was
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: a yellow Labrador retriever. So they followed the dog to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: investigate what's going on. Now, each boy had a rifle
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: in hand, and they were hoping that the dog had
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: noticed a game animal outside and that they intended to
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: do a bit of hunting. This is a you know,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: rural area with living off the land type family and property.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's what they do, is they hunt
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: for a lot of food. Right, So that's what they're doing,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: going outside, gonna do a bit of hunting. However, what
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: waited outside their home was not an animal, and the
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: ensuing moments all hell would break loose and that's where
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: we're ending today's episode.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Ye're serious, I'm serious? Okay, who the fuck was going outside?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Two kids? Right?
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yes? So the one the one troubled kid who was
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: taken in by the family. Okay, so Kevin Harris was
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that one? And the fourteen year old son Sammy aka
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: or sorry Samuel aka Sammy and their dog and their dog, Striker,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: who is a yellow Labrador retriever.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Huh Okay, I cannot envision this ending.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Well, no, how do you think it's gonna add? What's
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: your whole thought process on this so far?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Well? One question I have is like, was were these
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know what we're calling it, but these people
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: in gilly suits were at that moment? Were they were
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: they just testing or were they literally ready to go,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: like they were ready to go.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're ready to go. They're ready to go if
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: they need to.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Were they intending at that moment not really to go
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: to be arresting Randy though.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: No, the entire purpose of this was it was a reconnaissance.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Mission, Okay, because I'm just curious if they thought that
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: through with the whole rock thing and stuff like this.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know this, I just can't. This isn't good.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: No, So, the entire idea is they're surveilling the property,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: both with video audio and aerial photography and stuff. Right now,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they're putting guys in the ground, They're going around the property.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: They're surveilling, trying to get information on not only the property,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: but the cabin itself, the family itself. What they're they're doing,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get anything they can to say, Hey,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: here's an opportunity for us to actually arrest this guy.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: So while they're on the property, one of the reconnaissance
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: thing that this guy's doing is like, hey, what's the
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: dog's reactions.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Let's see, Well, I think that the dog is easily
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: going to be able to sniff them out. And then
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: these kids who are seemingly living a pretty sheltered life really,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: and have you know they're the way of their dad
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: kind of ingrained grained on them. It's so shit like eh.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Well, as I said, all hell does break loose, and yeah,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: this is kind of a recipe for disaster in this moment,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: especially with all the things that have built up to this,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure, like you said, their dad's wig
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: is ingrained in them. Not only is their dad's way
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: ingrained in them, but they're witnessing first hand these military
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: men probably as far as they're absuming, harassing their family,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: harassing their dad. Like I said, I guarantee these guys
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: are driving up to the front door at least have conversations, right.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And now they're there. Yeah, I mean anyone would be
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: really alarmed over that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or even put it this way, take that all
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: out of perspective, put yourself in the shoes of these kids.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: You know nothing of the military, You know nothing of
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: your dad's perspective of life, you know nothing, Nothing on
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: him is ingrained in you. It's just you on your
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: property outside to go, I don't know, shoot a rabbit
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: for dinner with your dog, and you see military men
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: crawling through the bush on your property. How do you
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: think that's going to go?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Well, I know, and you're not even certain that it
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: could be military.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: You don't, You don't know. You just see camouflage, dudes,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: rifles crawling through your property.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't even know what I would do,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: but I mean, yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: But as of this point, though these kids do not
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: see them, the dog does not see them. They however,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: do see these kids and the dog, and they are
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: very well aware. And you will cover the rest of
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: what happens in the next episode in part two next time.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: So Nichole is in shock and I here, I know.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I am my brain. Like I said, it's it's
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: going a mile a minute right now. This is a
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: very fact that I have to wait a week is
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: such a piss off.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: R Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. That's how it goes sometimes.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: It's the name of the game.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: It is the name of the game. Sorry for making
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: you guys wait a week if you are one of
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: those people, because I know some of you out there
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: actually wait a week to listen to this episode, so
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you can listen to both episodes back to back. You're
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: not waiting a week. The episode's already out and you're
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: listening to it in about thirty seconds time. If you
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: are waiting a week, I'm sorry, but trust me, it's
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: worth the wait. Thank you for being here. If you
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: want to check out any of our links below, like
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: our YouTube where you will be able to soon watch
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Wicked and Grim actually on video behind the scenes link
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: is for our YouTube down below. We do some blog
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: stuff there as well. We have Facebook, we have Instagram,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: we have our Patreon. You can sign up get x
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: your content there too. If you want to just stay
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: here and chill with us, we're happy with that as well.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: The YouTube thing is going to be cool because I mean,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: what you'll know if I'm quiet, it's because my jaw
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is literally on the ground.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Seeing the reactions is something else.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: You will see Nicole either her mouth is wide open
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: because she's just like in shock and awe, or her
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: hand is covering her mouth and usually I am doing
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: frantic hand motions.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And jes you are actually yes.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Well, thank you guys so much for being here,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: and until next
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Time, stay Wicked,