Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #114 What To Do When Your Child Lies

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#114 What To Do When Your Child Lies · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 1: poor parent who just once answers now, Hello, my name's
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  Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson. It's so good of you to be
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  Speaker 1: part of the podcast. I'm joined by Luke and Susie,
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  Speaker 1: a husband and wife radio duo with three young boys,
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  Speaker 1: and can I just say how wonderful it is to
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  Speaker 1: be seeing the podcast grow to you and everybody who
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  Speaker 1: you've shared this podcast with, thank you so very much
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  Speaker 1: for listening. We're watching our numbers absolutely skyrocket recently, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's because of the wonderful reviews and
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  Speaker 1: ratings that you're leaving about the show. Anyway, I'll talk
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  Speaker 1: more about that shortly. Also, at the end of this podcast,
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  Speaker 1: make sure you stick around for the outtakes, because I
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  Speaker 1: don't normally leave them in, but this one was enough
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  Speaker 1: fun that I think you'll really enjoy it. In this conversation,
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  Speaker 1: I talked to Luke and Susie about what to do
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  Speaker 1: when our children are lying.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Justin Coulson always great to catch up with you.
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  Speaker 2: Selena has asked a question. She said, how do you
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  Speaker 2: deal with lies when you don't know which child is lying?
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  Speaker 1: Of all the things that they can do they can
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  Speaker 1: be mean to each other, they can backchat me. And
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  Speaker 1: while those things are frustrating, I can deal with that.
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  Speaker 1: But when they lie, oh my goodness, it's kind of
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  Speaker 1: like the ultimate trigger, right, It's.
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  Speaker 3: Just like kaboom.
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  Speaker 1: And it's such a challenging thing for us as parents
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  Speaker 1: to deal with the age where children start to really
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  Speaker 1: learn to lie and get a little bit tricky with
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  Speaker 1: it somewhere around five or six. Now, kids will lie
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  Speaker 1: quite obviously. Before that, it's very hard for them to
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  Speaker 1: be super tricky with lying. Prior to that developmentally, their
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  Speaker 1: brain just doesn't quite work. They haven't got that new
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  Speaker 1: row pathway there that allows it to happen. But after
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  Speaker 1: about five or six, they developed this capacity to start
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  Speaker 1: to tell lies, and somewhere between nine and twelve seems
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  Speaker 1: to be the age where they're most likely to be lying. Now,
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  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that teenagers don't lie, because they do,
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  Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean that children younger than nine don't lie,
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  Speaker 1: because of course they do. But I think the most
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  Speaker 1: important thing to consider here is before we even talk
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  Speaker 1: about dealing with the strategy of lying, is what if
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  Speaker 1: we could stop lying before it even started? Like why
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  Speaker 1: do your kids.
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  Speaker 4: Lie usually to get out of trouble to justify what
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  Speaker 4: they've done.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I know that this is going to be very provocative.
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  Speaker 1: My belief is that the only reason children lie is
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  Speaker 1: to not get in trouble. So what if we could
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  Speaker 1: set things up in our home in such a way
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  Speaker 1: that our children actually don't get in trouble.
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  Speaker 3: So they don't fear that as a consequence? That sounds weak? Justin, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that's right.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to let our kids just We might as
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  Speaker 1: well raise the white flag and let them do whatever
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  Speaker 1: they want.
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  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, they'll rule the roost, spare the rightspoil the child. Justin.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just going to throw some things that I think
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  Speaker 3: you might have heard.
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  Speaker 1: What happens here is people say, well, hang on, if
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  Speaker 1: I don't get my kids in trouble, then I've got
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  Speaker 1: no power over them. And how am I going to
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  Speaker 1: make them do what they're supposed to do?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, preach it.
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  Speaker 1: I think this is a fundamental challenge that we have
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  Speaker 1: with parents generally. Now we'll get to the dishonesty stuff
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  Speaker 1: in just a minute, but let's pause for a moment.
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  Speaker 1: Does anybody get you in trouble if you don't do
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  Speaker 1: the right thing. Me personally, Luke's just looking at Susie going,
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  Speaker 1: oh oh, Susie, who gets you in trouble if you
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  Speaker 1: don't do the right thing?
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  Speaker 2: Ah, Luke sometimes gets a bit up set.
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  Speaker 3: It me.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, But do you actually get in trouble?
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  Speaker 3: Is what I'm saying, Like, do I get grounded or anything? No,
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  Speaker 3: of course not.
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  Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? I mean, that's what we call
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  Speaker 1: domestic abuse, right, that's family violence or domestic abuse. If
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  Speaker 1: a husband was or a wife for that matter, was
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  Speaker 1: to say to their partner, their spouse, if you do
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  Speaker 1: that again, so help me. You're staying in your room
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  Speaker 1: for a month. I'm not going to let you out.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we would call the police. We would call
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  Speaker 1: that domestic five. Now, I want to be really clear.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that if parents are going to take
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  Speaker 1: that kind of course of action with their children that
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  Speaker 1: the police should be called. That's not what I'm suggesting.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just drawing an analogy between adult behavior and children behavior.
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  Speaker 1: And some people say, well, children need that, but I
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  Speaker 1: don't think that they do. I don't think that they
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  Speaker 1: need to get in trouble. In fact, I have a
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  Speaker 1: personal mission a personal goal to not get my children
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  Speaker 1: in trouble. And my children do not rule the roost,
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  Speaker 1: and my children do not do whatever they want, and
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  Speaker 1: they do not have me wrapped around their little finger.
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  Speaker 1: It's just that when they do things that are inconsistent
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  Speaker 1: with what we value as a family, they don't need
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  Speaker 1: to get in trouble. We just need to have a
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  Speaker 1: conversation about it. We sit down and we say, hmm,
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  Speaker 1: got a little bit of a challenge that's just come up.
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  Speaker 1: How do we work this out together. I think that's
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  Speaker 1: probably the best way to deal with the lining, because
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  Speaker 1: ultimately a child is going to lie because they're scared
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  Speaker 1: they're going to get in trouble. Therefore, they're going to
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  Speaker 1: try to apportion blame to their siblings. They're going to
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  Speaker 1: do everything they can to minimize their contribution to any
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  Speaker 1: challenges and difficulties and make it look like everybody else's
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  Speaker 1: bad except for them.
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  Speaker 4: I think I want to say here that since we
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  Speaker 4: spoke to you justin about the concept of punishment, we
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  Speaker 4: have across the board, we've stopped. We used to ground
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  Speaker 4: our oldest on, in particular from his iPad or from devices,
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  Speaker 4: and we'd sort of lock them away from using these
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  Speaker 4: in a form of grounding, and since we've changed to
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  Speaker 4: do that, and I remember one particular occasion where actually
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  Speaker 4: the iPad was at the center of his behavior issues.
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  Speaker 3: It wasn't just that it was a granting technique, it
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  Speaker 3: was what he was doing was causing him to lash out.
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  Speaker 4: And so I said to him, mate, I'm not going
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  Speaker 4: to ground you. I'm not going to take that iPad
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  Speaker 4: off you. But if the way you treat people when
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  Speaker 4: you use it is so poor, and that you think
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  Speaker 4: you can treat people this way, then maybe we need
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  Speaker 4: to have a conversation about why that is.
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  Speaker 3: Look, let's have a conversation about what is it that's
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  Speaker 3: triggering you.
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  Speaker 4: And if you think that you can use the iPad
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  Speaker 4: without treating people poorly, then that's okay, But maybe you can't.
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  Speaker 3: Let me ask you a few questions about this.
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  Speaker 4: And we had this conversation and his behavior changed quicker
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  Speaker 4: than any punishment ever made.
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  Speaker 3: It change, and it stuck.
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  Speaker 4: Like we never we've told them that basically we're not
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  Speaker 4: going to use a punishment. Sometimes we're going to say
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  Speaker 4: I think you need to go off devices because your
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  Speaker 4: time's up and you're acting ready and let's go out
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  Speaker 4: and play and let's do something, but never as a
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  Speaker 4: punishment anymore. And I believe that we've got so much
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  Speaker 4: better behavior out.
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  Speaker 3: Of them since we implement it, that we're more in
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  Speaker 3: control than we ever were.
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  Speaker 1: The person who has to prove that they're in control
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  Speaker 1: is not in control. The more I've got to show
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  Speaker 1: you my power, the less power I actually have. I
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  Speaker 1: want my power to be completely dormant in my home now.
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  Speaker 1: Dormant doesn't mean it's not existent. It means that it's
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  Speaker 1: not in use. And my car is in the garage.
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  Speaker 1: It's it's lying dormant in the garage. It's still there.
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  Speaker 1: I just I'm not using it right now. And that's
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  Speaker 1: the same with my power as a parent. I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to have to use it. I want my relationships
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  Speaker 1: to be wonderful. So if my child is lying, let's
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  Speaker 1: move all the way back to this question now. And
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  Speaker 1: by the way, I'm so glad. I'm so glad that
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  Speaker 1: you said that when we remove the threat of punishment,
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  Speaker 1: our children actually feel safer and they behave better. They
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  Speaker 1: are less likely to lie, they're less likely to deceive,
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  Speaker 1: they're more likely to trust us.
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  Speaker 3: So what I would be doing.
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  Speaker 1: If my child was lying is I would be saying,
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  Speaker 1: there's an issue right now where you're lying, or somebody
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  Speaker 1: in this group of three children is not being completely honest.
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  Speaker 1: Now everyone has different perceptions, but somebody's not being completely honest.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that's because you're worried that you're going
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  Speaker 1: to get into trouble. But you know, I've got this
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  Speaker 1: goal to never get you into trouble. I just want
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  Speaker 1: to work out how we can get along better. So
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  Speaker 1: why don't we work out where we should go to
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  Speaker 1: move things forward from here? And I sort of draw
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  Speaker 1: a line in the sound and say, let's just talk
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  Speaker 1: about the future and what we can do to make
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  Speaker 1: things better. When everyone's calm, maybe that night or maybe
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  Speaker 1: on the weekend, you say, hey, you know that thing
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  Speaker 1: that happened the other day on Tuesday? What actually went
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  Speaker 1: on there? Like, nobody's in trouble now, nobody's fearing for
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  Speaker 1: their lives right now because it's been a couple of days,
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  Speaker 1: and so so you might say what actually happened? And
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  Speaker 1: then the kids might start to open up. And if
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  Speaker 1: someone says and so and so did that, then say,
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  Speaker 1: oh I did not, and said, well, hang on. This
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  Speaker 1: is just what they think happened. Why don't you tell
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  Speaker 1: me what you think happened?
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  Speaker 5: Ah?
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  Speaker 1: I see, all right, So maybe it's somewhere in the
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  Speaker 1: middle here and you can It's amazing what happens once
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  Speaker 1: the emotion is out of the moment. I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 1: high emotions, low intelligence. You've heard me say it before,
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  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you find that there's just
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  Speaker 1: no need for dishonesty because people aren't scared of getting
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  Speaker 1: in trouble.
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  Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed what you've brought to the table as
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  Speaker 2: an answer to this. So much to ponder on, but
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  Speaker 2: something that is so we can implement it immediately.
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  Speaker 3: So good.
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  Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the podcast and found it helpful, could
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you do something for me, as a number of people
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: have been doing recently, If you could please go to
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review. It'll probably
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: take you a minute, maybe two minutes, but it's those
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: reviews that you leave that help other people find the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: podcast and have happier families. I love this one. It's
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: just come through from lash Legged. It's a five star
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: review named Concise and Encouraging. Let me read this to
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you it says in a sea of podcasts, I'm loving
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: this one for bringing really helpful, practical, encouraging, guidance and
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: ideas to our hungry but overwhelmed iss and lives in
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: a brief but powerful way. Each episode around ten or
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: so minutes. And oh, I should have read this ahead
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of time. And the timbre and modulation of your voice
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: makes it even easier to listen to. Perfect for audio work.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Please continue forever. Well, that's such a kind review. Thank
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you very much, lash leggared for doing that. For more
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: information on how it can help, visit Happy Families dot
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: com dot au, or you can visit my Facebook page
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families, or my website where you
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: can join up and be part of the membership group
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: where you get extra podcasts, in depth interviews, Q and
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: a's and a whole lot more. As for now, though,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: let's check out those outtakes from this conversation with Luke
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  Speaker 1: and Susi.
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  Speaker 2: She said, how do you deal with lies? When you
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  Speaker 2: don't know which child is lying?
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  Speaker 1: You can isolate them in their rooms to an electric
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  Speaker 1: shock machine and every time they respond to a question
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  Speaker 1: with an elevated heart rate, just give them a little shock,
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  Speaker 1: just let them know I know when you're telling the truth.
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  Speaker 1: I saw your heart rate spike. You're lying, and then
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  Speaker 1: you give them electric shock. It's amazing.
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  Speaker 4: I think that's really sound advice on how to how
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  Speaker 4: to finish this.
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  Speaker 3: I think it would be amiss for me not on
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  Speaker 3: the back of that.
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  Speaker 4: Share with you how my mom always could tell I
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  Speaker 4: was lying.
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  Speaker 1: How's that?
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  Speaker 3: So she would say, you know, I can.
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  Speaker 4: Tell that you're lying from your tongue. So my mom
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  Speaker 4: never said what it did. She said, I can just tell,
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  Speaker 4: I can tell by your tongue. Pope your tongue out,
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  Speaker 4: and I'll be able to tell. And every single time
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  Speaker 4: she knew, she proved herself consistently. But the method was
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  Speaker 4: pure psychology, justin because if I was lying, I'd go, you'd.
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  Speaker 1: Stick it out about half a centime.
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  Speaker 3: But if I was telling the truth, I'd.
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  Speaker 5: Be, ah, it's just my willingness to poke the tongue
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  Speaker 5: out as all.
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  Speaker 3: And I didn't know.
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  Speaker 5: And I am sort of very embarrassed to say that
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  Speaker 5: I was at a reasonable age, around about a teen age,
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  Speaker 5: when I was deliberately lying to myself in the mirror
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  Speaker 5: to then poke my tongue out to see what you
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  Speaker 5: can see? What changes my tongue when I told her lie,
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  Speaker 5: it's oblivious.
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  Speaker 3: That's brilliant.
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  Speaker 1: Mums are so clever.
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  Speaker 3: If you mess with my head, I tell you.
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  Speaker 1: And a final quick disclaimer, please don't ever electrocute your
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  Speaker 1: child for lying or for anything for that matter.
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  Speaker 3: That would be a bad idea.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, enjoyed the rest of your day and going How
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  Speaker 1: do your kids