Latest / Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight / Podcasting as Leadership

Transcript

Podcasting as Leadership · Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight

0:17
Find yourself in.
0:23
Thank you for joining the Hope and Possibilities podcast.
0:26
I'm Nola Simon, and today I actually wanna talk about podcasting
0:31
itself and why I am actually not doing guest episodes this year.
0:35
Podcasting is actually.
0:40
A real responsibility.
0:42
It's actually interesting how it's developed.
0:45
My understanding of it has developed since I started.
0:48
Podcasting is not really just a marketing tool.
0:51
Tool, it's a form of leadership.
0:52
It's cultural stewardship.
0:55
It's an act of discern discernment.
0:58
Podcasting is powerful because it creates culture and.
1:03
That is an interesting thing.
1:05
I've learned a lot since 2021 about podcasting.
1:13
It's got an ethical responsibility that we really don't talk about an
1:16
awful lot, and you can actually see that because a lot of podcasts have
1:20
really become enmeshed in politics.
1:27
Right.
1:27
So that's, that's kind of an interesting development.
1:29
Journalism is changing an awful lot.
1:32
You know, it's, it's really not just TV interviews and magazine
1:36
articles and newspaper interviews.
1:39
It's the podcasting that gets a lot of times the longest interviews
1:47
with some of these politicians.
1:49
And that has been something that's, an interesting trend to follow.
1:53
So I'm not necessarily interested in politics, but I am interested in how
1:57
we choose our guests and the messages we choose to amplify and how we
2:03
decide whose voice gets a platform.
2:09
Podcasting is often framed as casual.
2:11
It's, it's a vibe, right?
2:13
And I actually like conversational podcasts.
2:16
I don't like to script, I don't necessarily provide
2:20
questions ahead of time.
2:22
I tend to focus on a topic and ask the guests if they're comfortable about
2:27
talking in general, a about a topic that, you know, pertains to their expertise.
2:32
But I, I don't like to necessarily script everything out, right.
2:36
I have done episodes where, you know, we've done practice sessions
2:41
beforehand for people who haven't necessarily interviewed an awful lot.
2:45
I have done edits.
2:47
I've asked I've worked with guests who've actually wanted to approve edits
2:52
to make sure that they're comfortable because it is representing them
2:55
professionally and I understand that.
2:57
So especially if you are new to being interviewed it's really about
3:01
developing that comfort level now.
3:04
I also have learned over the years that I wanna limit the number of
3:08
times that I do that for people because it's an awful lot of work.
3:12
And I found a, a cheat code basically in terms of how much editing you have to do.
3:19
If you interview professional speakers and authors who have a very specific
3:23
message, you have to do less editing.
3:26
So that's.
3:27
In itself a, a learning curve that I've, I've discovered
3:32
there've been learnings that I've had.
3:33
You know, those, those authors, those professional speakers,
3:37
they come sometimes with.
3:39
Things that make them comfortable but aren't necessarily great
3:42
for audience engagement.
3:44
I had somebody on the podcast, he was a keynote speaker, he is a professor.
3:50
He came with slides and it was an entire lecture.
3:54
I. And essentially he was doing a podcast tour and that's what made
3:58
him comfortable to be able to do so.
4:00
Essentially, he was delivering that same type of lecture to every
4:03
podcast that he was on, which was not what I was expecting.
4:07
The whole presentation basically felt like I was just an audience member
4:12
rather than an engaged host who is actually having a conversation.
4:18
That I didn't love.
4:20
I had another guest who started checking his phone in the
4:22
middle of the podcast interview.
4:25
We were on video and he still felt comfortable enough
4:28
to present as distracted.
4:32
I debated whether to edit it out, but on the whole, I decided I'm gonna leave
4:38
that in because that represents you.
4:41
And if you are comfortable doing that publicly.
4:47
I mean, I felt disrespected, but again that represents who you are and who you
4:54
feel you want to represent yourself to.
4:57
My audience.
4:58
So those are kind of
5:05
explanations of, of what I've learned is sometimes you want to.
5:14
You always wanna present your, your guest in a positive light and make
5:18
sure that you know that the whole experience is comfortable for them.
5:23
But if they make specific choices, you as a host have the discernment
5:30
to be able to decide whether what they're communicating actually.
5:37
It needs to remain in the episode or not, right?
5:43
I watch a lot of people I don't know that people understand that
5:47
the way that I choose my guests is more it, it develops over years.
5:51
Like I follow people.
5:53
I have a really huge number of people that I follow on LinkedIn
5:58
and I followed them for years and.
6:02
It's about developing trust in their messages, making sure that the way
6:07
that they show up is not performative.
6:10
That there there's consistency in the work that they do, making sure that
6:14
they really believe what their writing and how that actually is valuable.
6:23
And that's not to say that, you know, people haven't evolved over time, right?
6:26
Like I've invest, I've invited guests.
6:29
Where, you know, now that they're, some of them are retiring, some of them
6:34
changed business models completely.
6:37
The, the original podcast episode doesn't speak to who they are right now.
6:40
I had one guy who actually changed corporations since similar job,
6:44
but different corporation I think.
6:47
And like I've gone back to, to people to say hi, like.
6:51
Do you wanna delete your original episode like it served its purpose?
6:54
You don't owe me anything if this is not something that you wanna
6:57
represent professionally anymore.
6:59
Do you want to delete that?
7:01
And
7:11
I'm sorry
7:14
people have said no because it captures the moment in time.
7:19
And it's not necessarily something that they want to advertise, but
7:23
they're comfortable with having it represent them professionally,
7:26
which I feel is beneficial.
7:30
So I vet podcast guests a lot.
7:32
I almost never accept cold pitches.
7:35
I have, I have done interviews with people I don't necessarily know well,
7:39
but usually they've been a referral from somebody else who's been a guest.
7:43
So.
7:44
The friend or the friend, the people that you respect will grab my attention
7:49
because you as a podcast guest, you've already, I've already vetted you.
7:53
Now I don't almost get it right.
7:55
There was somebody that I had known, I'd actually worked in
7:58
the same company with them.
7:59
I'd followed their, their journey that kind of started as like their
8:03
own independent entrepreneurial journey at the same time I did and.
8:09
The episode itself went fine.
8:12
Everything up until the episode was great.
8:13
And then after the episode was published, she didn't share it.
8:18
She didn't comment, she didn't respond to any emails.
8:22
It, she basically just ghost to me.
8:24
Now we're still connected.
8:26
She hasn't blocked me on anything.
8:27
She just doesn't engage and it's strange.
8:31
I don't really actually understand it, but, you know, I had a guest, she just
8:37
didn't wanna have an ongoing relationship.
8:40
Right.
8:42
And that's really something that I, as a, like a relationship manager have
8:45
always leaned into is like, I, my podcast guests, anybody who's I've worked with,
8:51
you've been assigned to me, have had an ongoing relationship with, you know,
8:56
you're, you're, you're mine, right?
8:58
I've committed to a relationship with you, so you respect me, I respect you.
9:02
And you know, at any point you can engage with that
9:09
relationship that we have.
9:10
Like honestly, there's still people that I work with 10, 15 years ago
9:14
who sometimes come back to me.
9:15
Right.
9:16
And that's great.
9:19
I love that.
9:20
Right?
9:20
I, I love people who will have the ongoing conversations and, and who understand
9:25
the, the value of, of engaging with me.
9:32
Not everybody's gonna want to do that, right?
9:34
So that's where
9:38
if I've got you know, the majority of people I've interviewed who, who
9:41
are willing to do that, I can really kind of write off the, the ones who,
9:46
who don't, which would be one really and, and call that a win, right?
9:54
So sometimes I don't get it right either.
9:56
I, I wanted to mention a woman that I, I read her book.
10:00
I followed her online significantly for a fair amount of time.
10:05
She has a fantastic history.
10:06
She's really well in.
10:09
She's got an incredible network.
10:11
Like your network is so incredibly deep and you know, she seems to be
10:15
really respected and really valued.
10:18
I invited her to come on the podcast and while I was actually waiting for
10:21
her to actually decide whether she wanted to do that, I checked her Twitter
10:25
'cause I, I followed her on LinkedIn mostly and, and engaged with her there.
10:30
And then I realized that she was openly supporting JK Rowlings
10:34
opinions and visions on trans people.
10:41
And it stopped my quilt.
10:44
Now she declined because she has her own podcast in the way that she
10:47
chooses to present herself and to build that network and leverage it.
10:51
She doesn't need to appear on other people's podcasts, so she
10:54
doesn't actually do guest spots, which, you know, fair play.
10:59
I mean, you've got a deep enough network then you should own that.
11:02
I think that's, that's fabulous that you're at that point.
11:05
I, I, I.
11:09
It aspire to really have that type of deep network.
11:13
And so she declined and I felt like I dodged a bullet because I
11:17
didn't do enough due diligence.
11:18
And even though I'd followed her for probably 18 months, I'd never
11:23
looked at her Twitter because, well, I stay off Twitter as much as I can.
11:28
I haven't closed the account because sometimes it's useful for stuff like this.
11:32
But, that's really important.
11:33
So you know, are you showing up on every platform as you are, you as a host, when
11:39
you're doing all that research, are you checking all of the public places that
11:44
these people show up and looking to make sure that the way they present themselves
11:50
the values, even though they seem aligned on one platform, when they start looking
11:54
at other topics that are adjacent or even unrelated to the way that they.
12:01
They work professionally.
12:03
Are those all in line with the values that you as a host
12:07
want to present to the world?
12:09
What are you giving a platform to?
12:10
And so, as I said, she declined for her own reasons, but I felt I
12:15
dodged a bullet and I really kind of,
12:20
you start to wonder if you've done enough due diligence and that puts me back.
12:27
And also.
12:28
I myself have come across a couple of different topics where the guests have
12:33
actually asked me to delete things within the podcast and I deleted
12:37
them, but I wanted to discuss them and the reasons why I've done that.
12:40
So there was one time that I told a guest a story.
12:44
It is a true story of my own work experience.
12:47
I worked with somebody who.
12:50
He was very much an in-person person.
12:52
He was the type of person who wanted to be in the office five days a week.
12:55
He was very visible.
12:57
He was the type of person who had the standup desk, and
12:59
he stood all day, every day.
13:03
And he was extremely tall, very I mean, he, he, he was attention getting.
13:10
And so people noticed when he was in the office and that form of visibility.
13:16
I think he perceived that to be very key to his professional success,
13:20
and I, of course was very different.
13:22
I was campaigning hard for work from home, flexibility, all
13:28
of the things that I do now.
13:29
And so I was coming into the office and I would sit near him on the days that I was
13:34
in the office and the entire time that I was in the office, he would glare at me.
13:38
For eight hours a day, I would catch him just glaring at me during the day.
13:43
It was very uncomfortable.
13:44
It actually made, going into the office unpleasant.
13:48
It's what people would call a microaggression.
13:50
He never did anything violent.
13:51
He never did.
13:52
He just made the experience of being in his presence incredibly uncomfortable.
13:59
There was one time I was invited to go to a high performers lunch and, and.
14:05
He attended as well and he glared at me the entire time because he
14:10
even presented the fact that I was invited to the high performance lunch.
14:13
He didn't think I deserved to be there.
14:16
And the way that it ended up you know, the lunch wrapped up,
14:19
people went to the bathroom.
14:20
I ended up being alone with like the, the A VP and the, the vp, and we
14:25
walked back to the office together.
14:27
Again, it wasn't planned, it was just.
14:30
Serendipity, that whole magical water cooler moment.
14:34
And I walked back into the office with them and he was livid.
14:39
You could tell.
14:42
So anyways, I was telling this guest about this, this story, and the way the the
14:47
story ends up is well, COVID happened.
14:50
And obviously work from home became mandatory and nobody was in the office.
14:56
And during that period of time, and I dunno, the full story, he
15:01
killed himself and I told the guests the story and she was shocked
15:06
because, is that my story to tell?
15:11
Well, it is my story to tell because it happened, it
15:14
impacted my experience at work.
15:17
It.
15:17
Really underlined my awareness that the stories that people tell
15:24
themselves about the way that work happens and can happen really is really
15:29
deeply embedded in identity and how
15:37
that informs the way that their understanding of the
15:40
future of work will develop.
15:43
And honestly.
15:46
Within that context, it's not just thought leadership, it's not just
15:53
interesting, it's not just academic.
15:55
It's actually affecting people's lives.
15:58
And in his case, and again, I don't know his full story because
16:02
I left the company and I, I wasn't actually in contact with him at all.
16:08
It was life or death.
16:10
So.
16:13
These things matter right now.
16:16
Her reaction was actually really interesting because it
16:23
made me pull back and assess how you tell those stories and who owns those
16:28
stories and what type of permission do you need to be able to tell those stories.
16:32
So I deleted it, but I, I still think that that story deserves
16:38
to be told because it has.
16:43
Some deep issues connected to it that are worth exploring.
16:49
So how do you tell it in a way that's not performative in a way that's
16:55
emotionally resonant, that conveys respect
17:02
and, and fosters trust?
17:04
Right?
17:05
But doesn't.
17:06
Sensationalized doesn't put him
17:11
in a negative light.
17:16
It's a challenging, challenging, searching story for me to, to talk about.
17:20
And even still, you can hear my hesitation as I'm, as I'm telling it.
17:24
Right.
17:24
Another episode where I was talking to somebody who, as an expert on
17:30
neurodivergence and belonging at work.
17:33
And so we were talking about AI and how ai is really trained on the
17:38
dominant messaging that's happened.
17:42
Like how LLMs are trained is it's, you know, what's been published,
17:45
what's been published, what's, so the majority of times if you've got
17:50
a male dominated field, what's being published, what's being made public,
17:54
what's being recorded has all been.
17:58
Predominantly white, cis male.
18:02
And so that messaging that's happening in a lot of different AI and how the
18:08
LLMs are trained is, is really kind of biased and not capturing, you know,
18:13
the experiences of people who are suppressed and have never been published.
18:20
Right.
18:20
So it's, it's women, it's people of color, it's marginalized communities.
18:24
It's, you know, anybody that industry and media has not felt
18:30
deserved a platform before.
18:32
So what does that mean?
18:34
So I was telling her that in my opinion, that what that means is
18:37
AI will become, AI that's trained on that will become ubiquitous.
18:44
And so anybody who has that sort of perception, you're going to sort of blend
18:48
into what AI is because that's how the LLM has really been trained is on that world.
18:55
Experience that, that point of view.
18:58
So anybody who hasn't been published, so like that, marginalized community,
19:02
women whatever community has not been dominantly documented, and therefore
19:10
that documentation is not available to train an LLM, you'll have the ability
19:15
to stand out because you'll be unique.
19:18
You are not gonna blend into the, the messaging that's coming from AI
19:22
because your experience has never been available to be stripped and trained.
19:31
Used to train.
19:33
And she told me that she thought that that was a thing that we should actually
19:37
not talk about at that moment because.
19:43
When a dominant community becomes threatened and they feel threatened,
19:46
violence normally ensues.
19:48
So what does violence mean?
19:50
It's dangerous, right?
19:52
So they, and they could mean like.
19:56
A very generalized, they could retaliate to what does retaliation
20:01
at work look like and what does retaliation in society look like?
20:07
So again, these are unintended consequences.
20:10
So the, the AI has been trained on the voices of the dominance, which means that
20:17
the people who weren't never dominant, those voices are gonna be unique.
20:20
So that retaliation.
20:22
To suppress those unique voices could become more extreme.
20:26
So I, I think it, I think she's right.
20:30
I think that is a risk, but literally, I don't know that not
20:34
talking about it is the way to go.
20:37
Right.
20:38
I think you just have to be very cautious and, and look at the ethics
20:44
and how we want to use ai knowing the.
20:51
The risks.
20:52
Again, it's not academic.
20:54
It's not just nice to have, it's not just thought leadership.
20:58
It's not just a thought exercise.
21:01
It's how this then shapes culture and influences how people treat
21:08
each other and how we pay attention and who we are ignore, who we pay
21:12
attention to, who we erase and who.
21:17
Benefits from the way AI is used and embedded into workflows and society.
21:25
Right?
21:27
Those are all really important things to talk about.
21:34
So podcasting is pr, people do book tours.
21:38
That's, that's really the way that I found an awful lot of my guests.
21:41
They wanna amplify a book that they've, they've produced.
21:45
So it's a PR tour, but it's not just a PR tour, it's part journalism.
21:50
It's part pr, but it's.
21:54
It's really a hybrid of storytelling, publicity, responsibility, and it carries
21:58
real stakes because podcasting gets picked up by media, especially if you
22:06
are somebody who has an elevated profile.
22:09
Look at the Liam Payne podcast that he did with Logan Paul.
22:14
Look at the Malcolm Gladwell podcast that he did with Steven Bartlett,
22:18
where after like an hour and a half, he gets tired and he starts talking
22:21
about work from home and the importance of actually working in person.
22:24
And do you really want to spend your life working in your bedroom, in your pajamas?
22:29
And what kind of life does that give you?
22:30
And that went viral, hopefully worldwide.
22:33
Liam, that podcast, he was, I I, I, I've refused to watch the entire thing.
22:40
So I've seen clips, he, he, he seemed to be intoxicated.
22:45
He,
22:49
he seemed incredibly vulnerable during it.
22:52
And as a host, I would never have published that podcast
22:56
because I don't think that.
23:02
The way that he showed up that particular day, he was making good decisions.
23:08
I don't think that he was thinking long term about the impact of what he said, how
23:15
that would ha affect his relationships, how that would affect his public persona,
23:20
how that would affect his mental health.
23:24
I don't think he understood.
23:29
The repercussions that that podcast would actually have and the fact
23:35
that that podcast is still live.
23:39
I don't respect that.
23:42
He was obviously in a lot of pain from the clips that I've seen.
23:49
And I don't think that's censorship.
23:50
I think that's care.
23:51
So podcasting requires a duty of care, a willingness to slow down,
23:56
to reflect, to hold complexity.
23:59
You know, the, the microphone is powerful, interviews are powerful.
24:03
But that ability to edit that ability to, to look at something and say,
24:12
if I care for you as a person, I can't allow you to go on the record.
24:17
Saying what you just said.
24:21
I think that that's powerful, right?
24:24
So thought leadership is not academic.
24:26
It's not just branding.
24:27
It really has an impact, and I think it should be treated seriously.
24:31
It's not just a let's dash this off and get to the next episode.
24:36
You have to consider that what we norm normalize.
24:40
What we amplify, what we ignore has a real consequence.
24:44
When it's recorded, it gets repeated.
24:47
It gets spun into something else.
24:49
It gets clipped, it gets reshared and it builds a narrative.
24:54
And especially when you add in something like AI where you can't necessarily
24:58
control that narrative or hallucinations actually happen and you know that's
25:03
going to become something different.
25:07
You know, I, I think that's, that's something that we have to really look at.
25:17
So, and there's another story I wanted to mention as well.
25:19
I was scoping at somebody somebody actually who.
25:23
Has had a long-term relationship with two women who've appeared on my podcast
25:26
that I deeply respect, and I really liked a lot of what he was saying.
25:31
He, again, was an author, he was a speaker, he's a trainer.
25:36
You know, I liked an awful lot of what he was was saying.
25:39
And so he actually reviewed one of my episodes.
25:44
He actually gave me really glowing reviews.
25:46
Really enjoyed that.
25:48
You know, I gave him some reviews on his, it was just kind of like
25:51
basic relationship building, right?
25:54
And then he started writing about a topic that I recognized was very
25:59
related to one of my guests, actually the guest that he wrote the review for.
26:05
And I saw one post that he did and, and.
26:11
I tagged her, and again, I was just like, hi, I don't think you've
26:14
actually been formally introduced.
26:15
I just think you have a lot in common that it might be beneficial
26:19
for you to know each other.
26:22
And I, I tagged her on the post.
26:25
And so the intention was to, to really connect somebody who, you know, I thought
26:30
they had things in common that they might spark you know, mutual recognition.
26:35
It felt generous, natural, I was.
26:37
The intention, and again, attention always doesn't meet.
26:41
The outcome was to
26:46
network in a positive way, right?
26:49
So he did not respond that way.
26:51
He did not think that I had positive intent.
26:56
He privately messaged me and.
26:59
It was the most passive aggressive email or DM that I've received.
27:04
He wasn't thanking me.
27:05
He wasn't clarifying.
27:06
He was scolding me.
27:07
He accused me of playing LinkedIn police and said that I should
27:12
have asked him privately first.
27:14
I. For one, you've already commented publicly on that podcast, you know who she
27:19
is because I have the review to prove it.
27:22
And his message was framed to putting me into place, giving me the benefit of
27:26
the doubt that I didn't necessarily mean to shame him, which of course I didn't.
27:30
I really felt condescending and controlling, and he
27:34
wanted to put me in my place.
27:37
Now.
27:39
Personally, what I felt after that was that he was planning to write
27:50
something similar and he felt that my connecting him to her.
28:01
He, he said I was a tattletale.
28:04
The thing is like nothing is new, like you don't own these concepts.
28:08
And I mean, however he came to that, even if it happened to be a
28:11
similar idea concept, I mean, her, her message honestly is, is not
28:19
really completely brand new either.
28:20
Like it's how you combine your expertise with those concepts,
28:26
the stories that you tell.
28:28
How it all can be unique, right?
28:30
So like what's unique, what's, what's creative is how you present your own
28:36
personal view of these concepts, right?
28:38
So it might not be a completely brand new concept, but your perception
28:44
of it and your, your explanation of it could be completely unique
28:47
in, in different messaging, right?
28:49
He really reacted badly and I basically said, you know, I'm sorry
28:55
I. I obviously intended to connect people that I felt had similar things
29:01
in common, and I didn't mean to offend, I'm sorry you were offended.
29:09
But for me, it wasn't just about that message, it was the fact that there
29:14
was a gap between who I imagined him to be and who he turned out to be.
29:18
I felt like I'd misjudged him like I missed something that was very obvious.
29:22
In hindsight, I started paying Costa attention to the word of
29:25
mouth effect and how any tight net network, regardless of gender, can
29:30
really create reputational shields.
29:33
So had I overlooked behavior as his, that was uncomfortable just
29:39
because of who he was connected to.
29:42
And and how does that word of mouth effect mask bias?
29:48
So that's, that's another story, obviously.
29:52
I mean, I, I still connected to him.
29:54
I don't engage on anything he writes.
29:56
He doesn't really engage with me anymore.
29:58
I haven't blocked him.
29:58
He hasn't blocked me.
30:01
It was completely professional the way we left it, but it, it made me think that I
30:06
need to do more due diligence and I need to be more discerning about how I invite.
30:15
So
30:18
every guest, every question, every edit, every silence,
30:21
it all builds culture, right?
30:23
So podcasting is leadership.
30:26
It's not just the kind of leadership with applause or status though.
30:29
It's the kind of with ethics and accountability and an understanding
30:34
that whatever we publish and make public has an impact and it.
30:41
It could be a temporary impact, but it could also be a long standing impact.
30:46
I mean, that Logan Paul interview that Liam Paint did that was
30:50
what, 2018 and he's dead and people are still talking about it.
30:55
So
31:00
it has a way of taking on a life of its own that you can't necessarily control and
31:06
you have to be really cautious with it.
31:08
Right?
31:09
So who are you trusting?
31:12
I came across a podcast host the other day who had 200 episodes that he'd
31:17
fed the transcripts into a you know, a custom GPT and is making that custom.
31:23
GPT.
31:23
He's selling access to it so that you can ask his guests anything.
31:28
I'm sorry.
31:29
Do you own that expertise now?
31:30
Like what kind of consent did you get?
31:33
That floored me.
31:34
I mean, I like transcripts.
31:36
They're great for SEO.
31:38
They're great for pulling quotes.
31:40
They're great for learning what worked in an interview.
31:42
It didn't, you know, what questions did you ask?
31:45
That seemed to really open it up there.
31:47
I used, honestly, I listen back to episodes and I use transcripts to analyze
31:51
my own performance, how I can prove as a host, but how do you respect that?
32:00
Intellectual property, right?
32:02
And who are you giving the mic to and why?
32:04
What norms are you reinforcing?
32:06
Even passively?
32:08
Are you protecting your audience or just your reputation, right?
32:12
So you have to consider what's going out to your audience as well, right?
32:20
And who gets the benefit of your discernment.
32:24
So my goal is always to.
32:27
Be trustworthy.
32:28
How do I foster more trust?
32:31
It's not about going viral.
32:34
You know, so far I have not gone viral with my podcast.
32:38
It's not really the goal though.
32:39
The goal is really to support conversation and talk about from all
32:44
kinds of different perspectives what the future of work is going to be.
32:47
And I call it a love letter because.
32:51
I am optimistic that we can craft work that's better and we are going to
32:57
make choices that's going to be make work healthier and more sustainable,
33:03
and we can co-create that, right?
33:06
So what does that discussion look like, right?
33:10
I'm not always gonna get it right, but if I'm being very self-aware and I'm
33:15
very much paying attention to the nuance.
33:20
And how I'm inviting people and how I'm interviewing them and how those
33:24
interviews live on and, and how they interact and they tell a, a larger story.
33:30
That's really where the responsibility is, and that's real leadership.
33:36
Right.
33:37
I wanna talk a little bit about sponsorship.
33:38
So I'm my own sponsor.
33:41
I would love to have a sponsor, but finding a company or a brand
33:45
that can match the level of care, concern, ethical alignment I
33:47
hold is incredibly challenging.
33:50
Agendas very wildly.
33:52
There's one guy that I know who has a sponsorship with an oil company and
34:03
he he, it's about heart leadership and how to lead from, from people.
34:10
And his sponsor is an oil company.
34:14
He's got some interesting concepts of how
34:20
values and ethics work is all I'm gonna say.
34:24
So you have to make sure that the values align and my vision for the future.
34:30
Is often controversial.
34:32
It's pushing boundaries that many are not necessarily ready to embrace.
34:36
I'd love to have a sponsor who shares the commitment to integrating
34:40
courage, but I have no interest in being governed, filtered, or having
34:43
my opinion throttle to fit a marketing narrative or corporate comfort zone.
34:48
I'm choosing to sustain the work independently so I can hold the mic with
34:52
full freedom and full responsibility.
34:54
So that doesn't mean that I'm not ready to talk.
34:58
If somebody is listening to this and you're considering what that future
35:02
of work looks like, and you think that we could have a partnership,
35:05
then talk to me if you believe your brand can meet the hard bar.
35:10
If you're ready to support courageous, honest leadership without compromising
35:13
or controlling the message, pitch me.
35:16
DM me, email me nola@nolasimon.com.
35:21
You can find it, anything on the website as well.
35:23
I'm interested in a company like that.
35:28
What does that look like?
35:29
I have no idea.
35:30
We'd have to co-create it together, right?
35:37
I think that sponsorship can be an amazing thing, and podcasting
35:42
can be an amazing thing, but
35:46
you have to be incredibly careful with the influence you're wielding.
35:53
And that's my commitment to you is how do you, how do you lead in a way that.
36:02
It has integrity.
36:04
And that's my, my commitment to my guests, to me, my company, you know,
36:10
any client that I work with, my family.
36:18
That's, that's who I wanna be.
36:22
So anyways, thank you for listening and again, I'm always
36:25
interested in people's response to.
36:29
My ramblings and you know, if you feel like talking or giving me feedback or
36:34
even a review or rating, hey, you know, the, those are, are hard to come by.
36:39
That would be great.
36:40
Thank you so much.
37:13
Find yourself in.