Latest / 12 Months to Marathon / Episode 116 — Madness or the Mindset of a Champion? Where Do We Draw the Line?

Transcript

Episode 116 — Madness or the Mindset of a Champion? Where Do We Draw the Line? · 12 Months to Marathon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the 12 months to marathon podcast from me, John Hill, the running podcast for the over 35s with Marathon Dreams, episode 116, Madness or the Mindset of a Champion.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's going on with me at the moment?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, as I record this, I am three weeks away from doing high rocks again for the fifth time, uh, God within and all that.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, training's going really, really well, I think.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, we'll just have to do the work and see how we get on.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm feeling quite good about it, to be honest.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see that.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did my local 10K a couple of weeks ago, which is always a good race.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Finished second in my age group, which is pretty cool, and 14th overall, so it's a good shift.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a nice little, well-organised race.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're in the UK and you're in the Birmingham area, you should definitely check out the Bourneville Leafy 10K in future.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the course is unforgiving.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are a couple of inclines in there.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I won't call them hills, but definitely inclines which can catch you out, particularly if you've got aspirations of a PB.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I have had some cool guests on here recently.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been a few more interviews, some really good ones, and some really good ones to come as well.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: What I wanted to do with you today is just cover off a couple of things that have happened recently that I've posted about on Instagram at 12 Monster Marathon Cheap Plug.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to put a bit of a different, perhaps a different spin on certain things and talk about some overall arching themes because I think there's there's a there's bigger issues at play than just what happened.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk about two specific things.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about Tigris Acepha, who, if you don't know, uh won the Berlin Marathon in a time of 211, which is the third fastest time in history.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: However, that's not the full story.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: She ran the last 2k of that marathon on, as the story tells us, a completely ruptured Achilles tendon off the bone.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um she was on for world record, which is sub 209.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was on for the world record for the winning, and she had that ruptured Achilles, and there's this is a lot of footage of her, as you can see, running and hobbling towards the finish line, including sort of stopping occasionally to hop on one leg, because obviously you can imagine what that pain was like.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk about that one, and I also want to talk about the other one, which is Joanna Vienchek, who was an Australian woman who did high rocks in China, and this one went viral.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you're not really into high rocks, you're just into running a chance are you would have seen this one, um, who had a soiled herself um in quite a severe way during the uh race and still won and still won the title.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about that as well.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So those two things.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a video on both.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now the the I'll we'll start with Tigris Acepha because the reason why I wanted to talk particularly about those two people and this thing about the mindset of a champion is because if you look at there's different there's different takes on this on social media, and one take is it's silly, it's stupid, you're gonna cause long-term damage and blah blah blah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: The other take is wow, she was committed to finishing that race.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I tore a hamstring at a 10k a few years ago, and I was on for PB, I think, and I tore my hamstring at 8k.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was luckily only a grade A tair, so it wasn't a rupture or anything like that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I hobbled to the end and finished the race, and I said to myself in my head, I'm finishing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was never gonna hit that time, but I said I'm gonna finish as best as I can, which I did.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it was more um that I just wanted to finish the particular run, um, even though I was very, very disappointed.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, with a bit of context, I was able to settle myself down.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I want to talk to you about here is the mindset of a champion, not the physical side, because I wouldn't expect any recreational runner to put themselves at any long-term risk of injury.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing is with Tigers Sepha, she's an elite athlete, she'd have probably she'd have probably been straight on a plane, she'd draw a helicopter, whatever it might have been, straight to a hospital to get surgery done.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that'll make her recovery a lot more straightforward, which apparently is because she's gonna be out for a good seven, eight months with that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't expect a recreational runner to do that because you've got to go to work on Monday.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you rupture Achilles tendon um and then keep running on it and damage it further, that could mean um a longer layoff.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you're always gonna have the risk of injury when you're running, whatever level or whatever pace, because that's just what happens.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it was that mindset to finish that really I think was quite admirable in the fence in the sense of, you know, I'm gonna win, she could have stopped, she didn't, she knew she wasn't gonna get world record at that point, but she kept going and still got the third thing at all time.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's for me, it's extracting this mindset of a champion to say, I'm gonna finish this race and I'm gonna do what I said I was going to do, which I think is the key principle we can take away here without us looking at long-term damage, because we have to have a bit of common sense, and I think when, which is gonna lead me on to the next point, which is probably gonna be a bit more meaty, and I think this will help because this upset a few people.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had classic things like, oh, I usually like your content, however, I don't agree with you on this, which is absolutely fine.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I want that, I want people to debate things on the internet on social media because that we've we've unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, as a society given ourselves this tool where we can all have big long elongated discussions.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the problem is sometimes that goes too far.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: In the case of Joanna Viencek, who was the Australian girl who won Hyrux, um, it was clear that there was a big problem there.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You could see, well, let's not go into detail here, but you could certainly see that she'd had quite a big accident, let's put it that way.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there was a massive pylon on this girl, and it got personal, and the problem that I saw first and foremost was number one, disclaimer before anyone goes nuts, what she did was wrong because her actions would potentially have impacted other people because it's an indoor event, and you know, you are sharing a space with other people, um, so her actions would have impacted others, which made it wrong.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if she was outdoors, like the Paula Radcliffe example, or various other probably examples of athletes who've been outdoors, it perhaps wouldn't have mattered so much.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people would have bad an eye because obviously athletes vomit and do all this stuff all the time.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem, first and foremost, there was the pylon online, and I think one of the reasons why people piled on her personally as well, which was inappropriate, was because people couldn't understand her mindset of I'm finishing this race even though I'm covered in whatever you want to call it, whatever language you want to use, taking away the fact that what she actually did was wrong.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there was I had comments on a post I did about it, which some some comments were absolutely fine, which I would have expected, which were okay, don't agree with you, great, fine, do that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: But some comments, some people were getting really, really angry, really angry at this girl.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, if you weren't directly impacted by that, why are you getting so angry about it?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the anger that then fuels the personal attack.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people were saying, She didn't give an F about anybody else, but you don't know what was going through her head.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: She probably just wanted to finish and win.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because it when she did win, her first response was a win's a win.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then, secondly, the problem, the other problem is that it's not actually officially in hierarchies' rules that that's not allowed, which I know is silly, but it's not.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you understand, if you've ever heard the story of the the cat in the microwave story, I won't go into that, but you've heard that it's the same sort of thing, it wasn't in the rules.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you can't spit, you can't do all these things, but to go that level of personal and attack, I think, was partly down to the fact that some people can't comprehend what it's like to be an athlete and just to think I'm gonna get this done, irrespective, because that's probably what went through her head.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I very much doubt what went through her head, or Tigris Acepha's head, or anyone's head who who does these things, oh, I'm gonna cover everybody in this, blah blah blah, and up yours, blah blah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Her first thought was I want to win, yes, which we can extract as a principle, irrespective about what went on.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Again, disclaimer, what she did was wrong.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said that about three times on the video I did, and people still launched into the comments.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, are you defending a blah blah blah?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen loads of other stuff.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at proper athletes' posts about this situation, they all agree on one thing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: What she did was wrong, she impacted other people, it was indoors.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, we can understand the mindset of I just want to get this done no matter what.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not advocating finishing any sort of race covered in excrements or whatever you want to call it, but it's the mindset of a champion that I think upset most people because people really, really went mad, including people who've never done HyROX.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a bit like marathon opinions, isn't it?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: We get opinions all the time from people who've never run a marathon.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's this, it's that, it's the other.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've never ran one, you don't know.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've ever done high rocks, and I've done four of them, it is a very, very sweaty event, very sweaty.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not exactly the hotbed of hygiene.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, you know, it's not like she went and you know, sealed herself in an operating theatre.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was in a pretty um unhygienic environment anyway, um, which again doesn't make it okay, and I'm not saying that, but people were acting like this is they wouldn't have to clear, they don't have time to clean everything, everything's covered in sweat.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've got half-naked people running around sweating profusely.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the reaction I think was disproportionate, and I think the pylon was the biggest problem, and they're getting personal because literally some people got really, really angry about this.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we have to do is think remember there's a human being there, because obviously she relinquished her title, she took about she didn't have to relinquish a title because she could have said, Well, it's not in the rules, I'm okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes what we have to do is take a balanced approach and show a bit of empathy because the way people were responding to her and the pylon online was like they were there when they weren't, you know.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I'm I'm assuming that some comments about Tigris Acepha were the same.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: People saying, Oh, she's done long-term damage, she's done this.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know what's going through these individuals' heads.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know that you don't know what their decision-making process is.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, if we started to understand the decision-making process a bit better, we could perhaps get into that mindset of the athlete and say, Well, am I willing to do whatever it takes with limits?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I can't believe I have to keep saying this because I know people won't listen to what I've said like they did on the post, and then start going, you're defending it, you're saying it's okay to poo yourself and all this.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying any of that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm saying is what we can extract is the mindset of a champion, and they were just willing to do whatever it takes to win.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, which brings me back to the Hierarchs example.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be clear on this.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: What she did was wrong and it impacted other people, but part of her mindset may have been, well, it's everything covered in sweat, it's a fitness event anyway, so I'm just gonna crack on.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: If it was a I'm going to, you know, smear it absolutely everywhere, which probably wouldn't have happened, except there's one particular event which is the row where you would sit down, and but every other event you you're not gonna be smearing it everywhere because it was down her back, then that was probably part of the thought process as well, which again doesn't make it right, but you can layer those levels of empathy.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when I saw some very good posts from athletic coaches and other they were saying, look, it's wrong, it's not a stain on the sport, it's not any of that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're overreacting.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: The truth is, she's a champion, she wanted a win, she was willing to do whatever it takes, she made a mistake, and that brings me back down to another point about social media is the way people talk on social media, it's like they've never made a mistake.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they can sit there in this position of judgment and judge people, but I mean judge people harshly, get personal, attack them when they don't know them and do all this sort of stuff.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And none of us have got that right because you don't know what went through someone's head.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Again, some of the comments on my post, she didn't give an F about anybody.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she might not have done, but you don't know that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where it gets personal.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And some people actually justified it should be personal.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not about her as a person, it's about her as a performer.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes performers and athletes think in their heads rightly or wrongly, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get this done.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna run 2K on a ruptured Achilles, I'm gonna do that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's more about the empathy and not going after the person trying to get a level of understanding.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the most controversial thing I will say is I do believe that the majority of people got angry because they don't understand what that mindset is and that willingness to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is when it impacts other people.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we have to take a step back on and say, look, your actions could have possibly impacted other people.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But when you've never done a high rox to start, you know, going mental about the hygiene thing when it's not exactly the hotbed of hygiene itself, for me demonstrates a lack of understanding and a lack of knowledge of the particular discipline.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you pile on somebody, if you pile on somebody who's a marathon runner and you've never run a marathon or do any of those things, I don't think you're allowed to share your opinion, but it's there's always going to be that, well, you you've never done it, so you don't know, which is why it gets onto personal because you can't validate your argument from a place of experience.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like when somebody's not walked a mile in your shoes, they can only give a certain amount of advice because they've never done it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to the running example, people criticize, oh, you've done a few marathons, you people you think you can give people advice about marathons.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whether that advice is top-level coaching or whatever is irrelevant.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you have done it marathons, you aren't in a position to discuss marathon running with somebody else.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you might not be a coach, and there's a difference between a coach and a marathon runner and a marathon runner who can coach.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because coaching people isn't the same as just relaying your experience.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have an understanding about how to coach individuals and not get personal and make it about the performance, and that's where we've lost it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the moral of the story for me is number one, yes, you can say what people did was wrong, and you can look at the reasons why what they did was wrong.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, we don't need to get personal and we don't need to pile on.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And number three is sometimes we perhaps have to take a step back and look at the balanced approach of what was going through that person's head that made them think, I want to get this done no matter what, and can I use that in a measured way in my own running performance?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's controversial, and that was the point that I made, and people lost their minds.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna lose your mind on the internet, it's fine, that's your that's your right to do that, but read the information, get all the information and give a balanced debate.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's this getting personal stuff that loses you the argument because you can't back up your argument with anything that's got substance, you're just calling names.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and some people got really, really, really angry, and I don't know why, especially about things that didn't directly impact them.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to get angry, it's okay to share your opinion, but it if you you know you've got to be willing to get some pushback on that as well.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my take on it, and that's what I said to my my coaching uh clients, that's what I've said to people that I know is balanced approach, no pylon, don't get personal, and actually I think it's uh a fine line in conclusion back to the title of the difference between madness and the mindset of a champion, because sometimes we do things irrationally and don't be going mental and getting personal and throwing barbs at people who've made mistakes, because I guarantee you've made mistakes as well, and you wouldn't want your mistakes exposed all over social media, okay?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And just because they're not doesn't mean that you get the right to criticize people personally and go after them in a nasty way.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the example of Joanna Verenczyk or even Tigrissa Zephyr, if that was a normal person doing that, it wouldn't have got gone viral and perhaps there wouldn't have been a pylon.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So those are my thoughts.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'd love you to disagree with me.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do whatever you need to do, head over to at 12 months tomorrow and follow me over there.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's chat, let's discuss these things and let's be adults about it and let's look at all the things.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And remember that everyone's a human being and everybody makes mistakes and we can show empathy but still criticize people's performance and we can show empathy for the individual as well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much for listening as always.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I do appreciate it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're brand new to the podcast, feel free to subscribe wherever you get your podcast from, Apple or Spotify.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you're a regular listener, please take the time to drop me a quick review on those platforms and a comment.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps me and share this with your friends.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, don't forget to follow me at 12 months to marathon and for your daily content and tips.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you click the link on my bio, you can join my free running community for the over 35s where we can take you away from the noise of social media and we can have a chat over there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much for listening.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, please subscribe because there's going to be some cool, very, very cool guests coming up, and I'll speak to you very soon indeed.