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The Kardashians: Are You Keeping Up? with Kardashian Kolloquium · Reality with The King

0:02
Speaker 1: Stay tuned.
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Speaker 2: We'll get into the conversation right after these quick ads.
0:16
Speaker 1: Oh, rain drops, we have a doozy today.
0:19
Speaker 2: Look, The Kardashians is one of my favorite reality shows,
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Speaker 2: and now that this season finale has aired, I want
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Speaker 2: to recap the entire season, but I want to dissect
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Speaker 2: this season in a way that I haven't done on
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Speaker 2: the other shows. We recap on Reality with the King,
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Speaker 2: but I could not do this episode alone. I am
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Speaker 2: joined by MJ, who is a therapist a writer in
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Speaker 2: New York City and she's also a Kardashian connoisseur. She
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Speaker 2: has a social media page that's dedicated to all things
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Speaker 2: Kardashian and honey, she knows more about the Kardashians than
0:58
Speaker 2: ray J.
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Speaker 1: So welcome the podcasts.
1:02
Speaker 3: Thank you. That was a great intro.
1:04
Speaker 1: So let's get right into an MJ. I like you.
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Speaker 2: I am a huge Kardashian fan. I just I love
1:11
Speaker 2: the show. Now that they're on Hulu, they have two
1:15
Speaker 2: seasons that has aired so far.
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Speaker 1: Season two just wrapped recently.
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Speaker 2: And I want to talk about whether or not we
1:24
Speaker 2: think it is time for the Kardashians to hang it
1:29
Speaker 2: up based on the fact that we all fell in
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Speaker 2: love with the show when they were on e for
1:35
Speaker 2: Oh my Gosh, I think fourteen seasons or something like that,
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Speaker 2: and now that they're on Hulu, I feel like, as
1:44
Speaker 2: much as I love all the Girls, the show is
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Speaker 2: not the same anymore.
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Speaker 1: But let me get your thoughts on it.
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Speaker 2: Do you think the Kardashians on Hulu is a good show?
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Speaker 4: Great question, And one of the most interesting things about
2:00
Speaker 4: I work and my account is that I get to
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Speaker 4: see the different discourse about the show. So I'm seeing
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Speaker 4: different factions of people saying, well, most people are saying
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Speaker 4: it's boring.
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Speaker 3: A lot of people are feeling like it's boring.
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Speaker 4: For my purposes, because what I kind of do is
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Speaker 4: I examine the Kardashians using postmodern philosophy and media theory.
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Speaker 4: So for my purposes, there's been a lot of like
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Speaker 4: rich material because it's a very meta show. It's a
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Speaker 4: very self referential show, and it's really, to me, a
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Speaker 4: reality show about a reality show, which is kind of
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Speaker 4: the essence of postmodernism. So for me, it's been giving
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Speaker 4: me good stuff. For a lot of people, I think
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Speaker 4: it's been boring, and it's because it's so curated, it's
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Speaker 4: so polished, and it doesn't quite have that sisterly charm
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Speaker 4: that it did throughout its trajectory on E for sure.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, I am considered the king of reality television,
2:51
Speaker 2: not just because I know all things Housewives, but because
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Speaker 2: I know all things reality television, and I gotta be
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Speaker 2: honest with you, MJ. We fell in love with the
3:01
Speaker 2: Kardashians on E because of the access of their personal lives.
3:05
Speaker 2: We were able to see Kimberly Noel Kardashian call Reggie
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Speaker 2: Bush on speaker and say your fucking worse, You're cheating
3:18
Speaker 2: on me, and we.
3:19
Speaker 1: Were like, girl, are you really doing this on camera?
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Speaker 1: Like what's going on?
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Speaker 2: We saw Courtney deal with a drunk Scott Dissick. We
3:27
Speaker 2: saw Courtney tell Scott I love.
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Speaker 1: My son more than you right.
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Speaker 2: We saw Chloe get married within thirty days of meeting
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Speaker 2: lamar Odom and they had to spin off. We were
3:40
Speaker 2: able to see Bruce Jenner transition into Caitlin. We were
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Speaker 2: able to see these very deep, rich stories and as
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Speaker 2: somebody who loves the girls, as I'm watching the Kardashians
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Speaker 2: on Hulu, to me, it's like one big fucking commercial. Yes,
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Speaker 2: much as we were able to see products in the
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Speaker 2: business and the brand's boom when it was on E.
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Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, I'm not as invested anymore. Because, yes,
4:12
Speaker 2: it's cute to see you guys get dressed up to
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Speaker 2: go to the magala. It's nice to see you know. Look,
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna lie itning nice, but.
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Speaker 4: Understandably it's not relatable. And and what you just listed,
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Speaker 4: that was a great walk through the archive of some
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Speaker 4: greatest hits from the Kardashians during their rise to media dominance.
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Speaker 4: But now they're here, they have dominated, and I agree.
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Speaker 4: I think that the structure of the show was always
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Speaker 4: like a home movies and commercialized like hybrid, but it's
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Speaker 4: all commercial now. It's impossible to get lost in a
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Speaker 4: sense of reality. And the peel of reality TV, I think,
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Speaker 4: is noticing those moments when something feels really, really real,
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Speaker 4: even though it's coming through a screen. Once something gets
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Speaker 4: me through a screen, it loses some piece of reality.
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Speaker 4: It's become constructed. But those sound bites of Courtney telling
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Speaker 4: Scott that about her feelings about her son, and those
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Speaker 4: those nitty gritty psychological family dynamics were the secret sauce.
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Speaker 4: I think of the show and the wit and the
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Speaker 4: charm and the and the jokes, the really memeable moments,
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Speaker 4: But what can we mean about what we're seeing now
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Speaker 4: Kim putting on the Maryland dress and saying she's not
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Speaker 4: sure if she's going to fit into it. So it's true,
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Speaker 4: there's not much for our humanity to like latch onto
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Speaker 4: and what we're seeing now. And I also think they
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Speaker 4: don't even.
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Speaker 3: Have besides Chloe.
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Speaker 4: Chloe's, like I told someone recently in an interview, like
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Speaker 4: the golden Goose of the show, because the Tristan drama
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Speaker 4: is I think unmistakably real. We don't know how much
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Speaker 4: is being shaped, you know, But that's kind of all
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Speaker 4: they have to offer us.
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Speaker 3: Kim's stuff is.
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Speaker 4: Has to kind of stay behind the scenes and controlled
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Speaker 4: and curated. Kylie's stuff is too real. World is too real.
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Speaker 4: It doesn't get any more real than mass death. And
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Speaker 4: so Chloe has the good, juicy classic I got cheated on,
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Speaker 4: and people can kind of relate to this and judge
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Speaker 4: it and whatever their things are about it. But I
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Speaker 4: don't know if they have interpersonal drama even delivered to
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Speaker 4: us anymore. Like they're running a tight ship. I think
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Speaker 4: they smooth out their stuff and they can't even deliver
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Speaker 4: us as old fights of like Tim's makeup on the wall,
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Speaker 4: when Courtney like swingings that are like I think that
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Speaker 4: they are too elite now to get caught up in
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Speaker 4: that stuff.
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Speaker 3: Therefore they can't give it to us.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my question for you is this, Knowing that
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Speaker 2: we all fell in love with the girls based on
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Speaker 2: what they brought us, I got a feeling that possibly
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Speaker 2: the folks over at Hulu, who shelled out millions and
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Speaker 2: millions of dollars to retain the global brand of this
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Speaker 2: show may not be receiving the ratings they thought they
6:53
Speaker 2: were going to receive. And I'm asking that question based
6:57
Speaker 2: on a recent tweet that Kimberly Noel car Ardashian tweeted
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Speaker 2: on November twenty fourth, which was the day the season
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Speaker 2: two finale aired.
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Speaker 1: She tweeted, what do you.
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Speaker 2: Guys want to see for season three of The Kardashians.
7:14
Speaker 2: Do you guys like family stuff, work stuff, kids stuff,
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Speaker 2: behind the scenes of shoots, family pranks? Question Mark and
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Speaker 2: Kim got read for filth because everyone responded to say, no, bitch,
7:28
Speaker 2: we want to see what happened with you and Pete Davison,
7:32
Speaker 2: what's going on with you and Kanye West?
7:34
Speaker 1: We haven't seen Scott Disick.
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Speaker 2: If I see one more tongue makeout session between Courtney
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Speaker 2: and Travis, like, seriously, I'm over it. We want to
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Speaker 2: see listen. I would have liked to see a little
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Speaker 2: bit of the Astor World drama in terms of how
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Speaker 2: Colli was dealing with it. We haven't seen any of
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Speaker 2: those things, MJ. So when Kim tweeted that, as a producer,
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Speaker 2: it made me think, I don't know if the show
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Speaker 2: is getting the reception they thought they were.
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Speaker 1: So what do you think that tweet was about?
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Speaker 3: My take on that tweet is and I am curious too.
8:16
Speaker 4: And Disney doesn't release their views or their their data.
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Speaker 4: So they did try to hype the show with season
8:22
Speaker 4: one by saying season one of the Kardashians was in
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Speaker 4: the premiere episode record breaking globally, So they tell us that,
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Speaker 4: but we can't verify it with season two, and then
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Speaker 4: Kim tweeting this, Yeah, I don't know how to speculate
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Speaker 4: about how the show is doing. But I do think
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Speaker 4: when Kim treats her audience like a focus group, it's
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Speaker 4: a way to make us feel like empowered viewers, and
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Speaker 4: she's done this in the past.
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Speaker 3: I have to go track.
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Speaker 4: Down the interview, but there was some interview during her
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Speaker 4: climb to dominance. It was like, I think in like
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Speaker 4: the mid aughts, like maybe like a twenty ten, maybe
8:55
Speaker 4: potentially up to twenty sixteen, somewhere between that timeline. She
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Speaker 4: said something like, I love being a social media star
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Speaker 4: because I can reach my audience directly and get their
9:03
Speaker 4: thoughts and their ideas and their takes. Someone in one
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Speaker 4: of my comments said something like she did the same
9:08
Speaker 4: thing after the kimono drama. She asked people what she
9:10
Speaker 4: should rename the brand when she had to take down
9:13
Speaker 4: the kimono name, and apparently someone said skims. Then it
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Speaker 4: got a lot of our skim or something, and it
9:18
Speaker 4: got a lot of likes. So so there were fan
9:19
Speaker 4: theories that that fan named Skims. I think the name
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Speaker 4: of the Kardashian game or any like true media icons
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Speaker 4: game will have to be especially as media technology brings
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Speaker 4: us closer to the things we're watching, Like social media
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Speaker 4: makes us feel really close to in reality TV, whatever's
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Speaker 4: entertaining us, they need to make us feel like we're
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Speaker 4: interacting with them. So I think it's the least a
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Speaker 4: strategy to pull the viewers in, especially since there must
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Speaker 4: be a sense that they're losing people. And I really
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Speaker 4: kind of suspect that season three is already being shot anyway,
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Speaker 4: and the things she listed are probably already going to
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Speaker 4: be in are already in the queue, the work and
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Speaker 4: the pranks.
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Speaker 2: You know, yes, sin because she tweeted behind the scenes shoots,
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Speaker 2: family pranks, kids stuff. And I want to say, no, bitch,
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Speaker 2: we want to see the drama. We want to see
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Speaker 2: what we where we're reading on People magazine, the Shade Room,
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Speaker 2: the Jasmine brand, like, that's the stuff we want to see.
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Speaker 2: And I listen, I agree with you, Kim is her mastermind.
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Speaker 2: At tweeting to her focus group, I thought it was
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Speaker 2: very interesting that she omitted drama, that she omitted real
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Speaker 2: life stuff, like I think for her and the family
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Speaker 2: that stuff may be off limits. Which is why And
10:42
Speaker 2: again this is my opinion as someone who loves the
10:46
Speaker 2: show and loves the family. When they announced they were
10:50
Speaker 2: leaving E, I thought to myself, that's a very good
10:54
Speaker 2: choice because the past couple of seasons on E wasn't great.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't and it wasn't great because they're so famous
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Speaker 2: that they now actually care about how their real life
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Speaker 2: stuff is going to affect their business, which I respected
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Speaker 2: in the sense of, I'd rather you leave the show
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Speaker 2: on a somewhat high knowing that we've given you, guys,
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Speaker 2: fourteen seasons of our lives, and we gave you everything,
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Speaker 2: and at some point you grow up, you have children,
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Speaker 2: and you make the choice to say do I want
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Speaker 2: to do this anymore? Which is why I always respect
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Speaker 2: the Courtney for being honest.
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Speaker 1: About I don't like this shit anymore.
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Speaker 2: Because let's be clear, Courtney Kardashian and Scott Dissick carried
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Speaker 2: the majority of keeping up the Kardashians with their drama,
11:55
Speaker 2: so I always felt like Courtney had every right to
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Speaker 2: say I don't want to do the shit anymore, and
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Speaker 2: I thought they were going to leave. So when it
12:06
Speaker 2: was released in the press that they got to deal
12:10
Speaker 2: with Hulu, I remember thinking to myself, is this just
12:15
Speaker 2: a money grab or is this something to where they're
12:19
Speaker 2: going to show us something different? And as I watched
12:23
Speaker 2: season one and season two, they are showing us something different.
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Speaker 1: I'm just not sure that we like it totally.
12:31
Speaker 3: I agree with you that.
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Speaker 4: The timing of ending with e and they like they
12:38
Speaker 4: didn't let us know that there's a plan for a
12:41
Speaker 4: return was it felt like they were even though people,
12:48
Speaker 4: you know, there's so divisive, so a lot of people
12:50
Speaker 4: were ready.
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Speaker 3: For them to be off the air.
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Speaker 4: In a way, it was like they were leaving without
12:53
Speaker 4: overstaying their welcome kind of thing, Like there was a
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Speaker 4: whole you know, there's a whole social shift happening during
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Speaker 4: the pandemic, and it seemed like they kind of knew
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Speaker 4: when to bout out so to come back. It was
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Speaker 4: sort of like the Kardashians have no intention of ever
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Speaker 4: ceasing in their visibility. And that's the name of Kim's
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Speaker 4: game is visibility at whatever cost. And the scandals still
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Speaker 4: benefit Kim because it's her name just in front of us.
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Speaker 4: My theory with the Hulu show is this five year contract.
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Speaker 3: It's an interesting number. It's like an interesting chunk of time.
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Speaker 4: It's just enough time to watch a group of people
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Speaker 4: transition into new roles. So I feel like we're never
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Speaker 4: going to see too much gnarly Kim drama at this
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Speaker 4: point because you know, all the discourse that we see
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Speaker 4: online of is she going to run for president?
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Speaker 3: Is she gonna move What is she going to do
13:38
Speaker 3: with this law degree when she gets it?
13:40
Speaker 4: Like the transcendence of Kim Kardashian as we know her
13:44
Speaker 4: is on its way in some capacity, And I think
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Speaker 4: Chloe's going to shift into this love utante status that
13:49
Speaker 4: Kim had for so long.
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Speaker 3: And we're seeing shifting roles.
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Speaker 4: So I think by the end of five years, the
13:54
Speaker 4: five year run of this show, we're going to realize
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Speaker 4: that the show was a vehicle for those changes. And
14:02
Speaker 4: I don't know if we're ever going to see anything
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Speaker 4: too raw from Kim because of whatever she's got her
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Speaker 4: eye on for the big picture, and.
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Speaker 2: What do you think that big picture is for Kim?
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Speaker 4: I am not going to, like definitively predict she's going
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Speaker 4: to run for president, but I think it's really I
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Speaker 4: think it's really interesting that that's finally kind of becoming
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Speaker 4: more of a discourse. There's a lot of reasons to
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Speaker 4: think that politics are going to at least be a
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Speaker 4: domain she's adjacent too, because I think she's trying to
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Speaker 4: become at the least a multi genre icon where she
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Speaker 4: covers politics and philanthropy and fashion high fashion, but still
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Speaker 4: like mal friendly, accessible fashion as well.
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Speaker 3: I think Kanye used to talk a lot.
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Speaker 4: In terms of I am the brand, I'm like Apple,
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Speaker 4: I'm like Nike, and I think he laid a blueprint
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Speaker 4: that Kim will eventually actualize. I think Kim will almost
14:50
Speaker 4: be up with the Nike in the Apple and like
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Speaker 4: the household name, global name of a certain kind of
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Speaker 4: corporate icon.
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Speaker 3: So I don't know if it'll.
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Speaker 4: Be political, but I do think that it's really interesting
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Speaker 4: that she's had increasing adjacency to the political establishment. It's
15:03
Speaker 4: going to just be something very conceptual, very big, very corporate.
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Speaker 1: That's going to be interesting.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Look, can I love you?
15:10
Speaker 2: I do not want you to running for president, girl,
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Speaker 2: I think listen, I want you to run for president
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Speaker 2: of the Bad Bish Committee, but to run for president
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Speaker 2: of the United States of America. No, thank you, babe.
15:23
Speaker 2: Do not want to see it? No thanks.
15:28
Speaker 1: I hate to interrupt, but stay tuned for more.
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Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these quick asss. This is
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Speaker 2: Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get
15:43
Speaker 2: back into the show as we sort of wrap up
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Speaker 2: Season two of the Kardashians. What were your favorite moments
15:53
Speaker 2: from this past season.
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Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, that's a good question, m J.
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Speaker 1: You got to think about a girl that means it.
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Speaker 4: Because for me, the best parts are the most metaparts
16:07
Speaker 4: that I can really think my teeth into and like
16:08
Speaker 4: apply philosophy to, which sounds so pretentious, and I don't
16:11
Speaker 4: mean it that way. I just I think if I
16:14
Speaker 4: wasn't watching it with the lens of like media analysis.
16:18
Speaker 3: I probably would have been bored too.
16:20
Speaker 4: So I'm trying to think of I thought more recently,
16:23
Speaker 4: just because it's fresh in my mind, Chris feeding CC
16:28
Speaker 4: lines or seeming to be feeding CC lines at their
16:30
Speaker 4: Caver lunch in Paris was hilarious. I thought the tension
16:33
Speaker 4: was hilarious. I thought it was kind of chilling. So
16:35
Speaker 4: I enjoyed that that was more recent to mine.
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Speaker 2: So, MJ, we gotta let my listeners know exactly what CC,
16:44
Speaker 2: who is Chris's cousin they were in Paris. MJ is
16:50
Speaker 2: talking about the finale episode, and it's funny you brought
16:56
Speaker 2: that up, so please inform my listeners of what your
17:00
Speaker 2: talking about and what CC said to Chris that I
17:03
Speaker 2: was like, this is actually pretty bad ass, but continue.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So what I got out of the scene is
17:11
Speaker 4: Chris is really trying to. They're having a conversation about
17:13
Speaker 4: what it means for CC to be in Paris with
17:16
Speaker 4: the family.
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Speaker 3: CEC's always loved fashion.
17:18
Speaker 4: Now she gets to be front row at at high
17:21
Speaker 4: fashion couture show, and Chris clearly has a narrative agenda
17:24
Speaker 4: in the scene.
17:25
Speaker 3: She's saying, how.
17:27
Speaker 4: Wonderful that Kim can do so much. She does it all,
17:30
Speaker 4: and she's even inviting you, Cec. She knows how much
17:33
Speaker 4: you wanted this, and CEC is not quite getting the message.
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Speaker 4: She keeps going to like other things, like I've always
17:40
Speaker 4: loved fashion, so it means so much. And there's a
17:42
Speaker 4: moment where Chris kind of gives her like a like look,
17:46
Speaker 4: like just say the fucking line, just say that. It's
17:48
Speaker 4: like great that Kim did this. And I love that
17:51
Speaker 4: because it brought back that old keeping up with the
17:53
Speaker 4: Kardashians appeal power of like noticing when a really real
17:57
Speaker 4: moment got through the construct of the scene. But then
18:00
Speaker 4: CEC does come through, I think in an unpredicted, unforeseen
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Speaker 4: way where she says you did all of this to Chris.
18:06
Speaker 4: She says that they came to the top because of you,
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Speaker 4: So she really acknowledges Chris's role as a momager, and
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Speaker 4: I kind of felt, I don't know if I was
18:12
Speaker 4: overreading into it that Chris was able to let go
18:15
Speaker 4: of her narrative agenda because she was getting her props,
18:18
Speaker 4: but it was. It was an interesting moment, and CEC
18:20
Speaker 4: called Kim a superhero, which was relevant to me as
18:23
Speaker 4: a writer because I actually wrote a big piece about
18:25
Speaker 4: how Kim Kardashian is situated as a superhero archetype and
18:29
Speaker 4: culture right now. But it was it was a There
18:32
Speaker 4: was a lot that seemed packed to punch for me
18:33
Speaker 4: for sure.
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Speaker 1: Now that is so funny. So I'm gonta be honest
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Speaker 1: with you.
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Speaker 2: I watched that Thanksgiving evening because the finale aired on
18:40
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving night, and I rewound that moment twice because to
18:47
Speaker 2: your point, I was like, wait what, because it was
18:50
Speaker 2: it was I'm not going to say it was random,
18:52
Speaker 2: but it kind of like slid in there, right, like
18:55
Speaker 2: CEC's compliment to Chris. So when CC said like, no, Chris,
19:00
Speaker 2: you're responsible for all of this and I love you some,
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Speaker 2: Chris fucking Jenner, she was so humble in her reaction
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Speaker 2: to it, like, oh, CC, darling, like oh, thank you,
19:11
Speaker 2: which is why I always tell people that's the career
19:15
Speaker 2: Kathy Hilton wants. Kathy Hilton wants the career of Chris Jenner,
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Speaker 2: a suburban mom in California who made her family become
19:26
Speaker 2: so successful individually that as a collective they are a
19:31
Speaker 2: billion dollar empire. And listen, that is something to be
19:36
Speaker 2: proud of and that's something to celebrate.
19:38
Speaker 1: So I agree with you, that was a great moment.
19:40
Speaker 2: One of my favorite moments from season two that I
19:44
Speaker 2: watch constantly is when Kim and Chloe went to Miami,
19:51
Speaker 2: because I like moments that doesn't seem produced. And one
19:53
Speaker 2: thing about the Kardashians, who again I love them, a
19:57
Speaker 2: lot of their scenes can come off produced. I from
20:00
Speaker 2: one hate the pranks because I feel like this isn't
20:03
Speaker 2: the fucking Brady Bunch, Like, stop with the sitcom pranks.
20:07
Speaker 1: I'm over it.
20:07
Speaker 2: So going back to the Miami episode, Chloe has anxiety.
20:13
Speaker 2: As we know, she was like, Oh, I'm gonna go
20:15
Speaker 2: to Miami to celebrate Kim's business venture. They're in the
20:22
Speaker 2: hotel room and Chloe is getting drunk with Malika, her
20:27
Speaker 2: best friend, and her other friends and Kimberly, Noel Kardashian
20:31
Speaker 2: is sitting next to her publicist on the couch with
20:35
Speaker 2: the laptop on her lap, and while a party was
20:40
Speaker 2: happening around her, Kim was selecting pictures that the Papa
20:46
Speaker 2: Rossi took so that she can improve them for release.
20:49
Speaker 2: And the best moment to meet MJ was when they
20:53
Speaker 2: cut to Kim's interview and Kim is looking off camera.
20:58
Speaker 2: So you actually, when you do a confessional, you're looking
21:02
Speaker 2: directly to the camera because you're talking to the audience.
21:05
Speaker 2: Kim is looking to her right and she's clearly speaking
21:10
Speaker 2: to a producer, not understanding that bitch, they're going to
21:14
Speaker 2: air this, and she says to the producer, no one
21:19
Speaker 2: knows how. No, I'm sorry, Kim said, I don't trust
21:24
Speaker 2: anyone to tell me I look good.
21:27
Speaker 1: I know what I look good.
21:30
Speaker 2: Malika can look bad in a photo and I can
21:33
Speaker 2: look good, but I won't release that photo because Malika
21:38
Speaker 2: looks bad and you guys can party because, bitch, you'll
21:42
Speaker 2: thank me later.
21:44
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's the side.
21:46
Speaker 2: Of Kim that I love and I want to see
21:49
Speaker 2: more of. Because it was off script, it was real,
21:53
Speaker 2: and although it was a funny moment, it's those little
21:57
Speaker 2: slice of life moments that I want to see more
22:00
Speaker 2: from this cast.
22:02
Speaker 4: And what you just described is exactly why I think
22:05
Speaker 4: it's a reality show about a reality show, and the
22:07
Speaker 4: more it leans into giving us insight into that process
22:10
Speaker 4: in an authentic way. It's an authentic depiction of something
22:14
Speaker 4: that's super hyper constructed, so it's an interesting collide of
22:17
Speaker 4: its attention. And what I also think is interesting is
22:22
Speaker 4: when we see them break the fourth wall that feels
22:24
Speaker 4: very penetrating and effective, which is what happens when we
22:27
Speaker 4: see her talking to a producer, and that's another example
22:32
Speaker 4: of I think my big takeaway from season two was
22:36
Speaker 4: that a lot of it was basically giving us bts
22:40
Speaker 4: into how more casual, fast moving media images came to be.
22:46
Speaker 4: Like the whole story of the Maryland dress, it was
22:49
Speaker 4: Kim on a red carpet. We got a hole behind
22:51
Speaker 4: the scenes, behind the scenes of images that we saw
22:54
Speaker 4: of Kim on a red carpet. That moment was basically
22:57
Speaker 4: behind the scenes of a paparazzi picture we saw of Kim.
23:01
Speaker 4: There's there was a moment when Cravis, when Courtney Travis
23:05
Speaker 4: go to Italy and we see them approaching this big
23:07
Speaker 4: beautiful cathedral in Milan, and we think we're going to
23:10
Speaker 4: at least see them to our cathedral and have a
23:12
Speaker 4: historic experience in Italy. But all we saw of that
23:15
Speaker 4: experience was Courtney jumping into Travis's arms and taking a
23:18
Speaker 4: picture for Instagram. And I remember seeing that picture on Instagram.
23:21
Speaker 4: So if you think about it, if you really break
23:23
Speaker 4: it down, so many of these episodes are just the
23:26
Speaker 4: bts of how an Instagram post was made.
23:29
Speaker 3: And that's really interesting to think about.
23:31
Speaker 4: That they were able to expand and create meat and
23:34
Speaker 4: material for something that really you just passed by on
23:36
Speaker 4: the feed.
23:37
Speaker 1: So my question for you is this, MJ.
23:40
Speaker 2: How long do you think the family can last?
23:46
Speaker 1: If this is all they're showing us?
23:48
Speaker 2: Because you've seen it, I've seen it, Honey, Kim has
23:52
Speaker 2: seen it. People are saying the show is boring, and
23:56
Speaker 2: it's one of those things to where and listen. That's
23:59
Speaker 2: a very reality TV executive Always say this to my cast.
24:04
Speaker 1: You can't start out your.
24:06
Speaker 2: First couple of seasons being super authentic, super transparent, and
24:11
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you peel back and you say,
24:13
Speaker 2: I don't want to show that side of me anymore.
24:15
Speaker 1: You can't have.
24:16
Speaker 2: That sort of push and pull a relationship with the audience.
24:20
Speaker 2: The audience wants more of you. If anything, you can
24:23
Speaker 2: start off your first season or two, if you're able
24:26
Speaker 2: to make it.
24:28
Speaker 1: Being a little.
24:29
Speaker 2: Bit you know, guarded, and then show more in your
24:33
Speaker 2: later seasons, But you cannot do the reverse or you're
24:36
Speaker 2: gonna lose your audience. We've seen that with some housewives.
24:39
Speaker 2: People have made comments about that to Nini Leaks that
24:42
Speaker 2: in the beginning of the Real Houseporks of Atlanta, Mieni
24:45
Speaker 2: gave us issues with her sons, and you know, it
24:48
Speaker 2: was so open about what was happening her marriage, and
24:51
Speaker 2: then a lot of people felt that towards Nini's latter seasons,
24:55
Speaker 2: we weren't able to get the real stuff from her.
24:57
Speaker 2: A lot of people felt like they were missing out
24:59
Speaker 2: on it. So when it comes to the Kardashians, are
25:04
Speaker 2: they going to make it in the five years if
25:06
Speaker 2: they keep going down this same path.
25:09
Speaker 4: I think they're going to need things to kind of exploit,
25:13
Speaker 4: like another Chloe cheating scandal, which I think is done.
25:16
Speaker 4: But I think they're going to have to make do
25:18
Speaker 4: with whatever may organically come up for them and figure
25:21
Speaker 4: out what to hone in on and make the most of,
25:24
Speaker 4: so different sisters will probably take the fall and like
25:26
Speaker 4: kind of sacrificing one personal thing maybe at the altar
25:31
Speaker 4: of the show for a season. They were made sure,
25:35
Speaker 4: I remember this, this is interesting to me too.
25:37
Speaker 3: In the finale episode to.
25:40
Speaker 4: Send us the message quite explicitly that they don't write
25:43
Speaker 4: this like at the finale, like the final like five minutes,
25:46
Speaker 4: Chloe says, you can't write this shit, and Chris says
25:48
Speaker 4: something like, I wish I could control it all, but
25:50
Speaker 4: I can't.
25:51
Speaker 3: They wanted us to know.
25:52
Speaker 4: That this isn't a completely fictional depiction of their lives,
25:55
Speaker 4: but I wonder if it's going to be enough for
25:56
Speaker 4: people to accept. I would also mention just through a
25:58
Speaker 4: media theory lens. So also, our brains are quite literally
26:02
Speaker 4: adopting more to short form content. We're getting more dopamine
26:04
Speaker 4: from the short stuff. TikTok has been very influential, so
26:08
Speaker 4: I think, and then TikTok dramas, cycles of Instagram influencer
26:11
Speaker 4: dramas are actually feeling more compelling I think to people
26:14
Speaker 4: because they feel more real and more immediate, because we
26:16
Speaker 4: can identify with influencers and people on the Internet a
26:19
Speaker 4: little bit better.
26:20
Speaker 3: So they have a lot to face off with.
26:23
Speaker 4: I think with the influx of TikTok and obviously Instagram's
26:28
Speaker 4: old power. My guess is, like I said, this is
26:31
Speaker 4: going to be a transitional chunk of time for them, and.
26:34
Speaker 1: I think that's great.
26:35
Speaker 2: So as we as we come to a close going
26:38
Speaker 2: back to Kim's tweet that she tweeted on Thanksgiving about
26:43
Speaker 2: what we would like to see season three?
26:47
Speaker 1: What would you like to see season three?
26:50
Speaker 4: MJ Well, one thing I also want to say about
26:53
Speaker 4: that tweet really fast is the effect of it. The
26:56
Speaker 4: impact of it was also that it was super memed
26:58
Speaker 4: and I don't think the Kardashians have had a good
27:00
Speaker 4: meme in a long time that felt really real. Audiences
27:02
Speaker 4: were organically reacting to them and disseminating their messaging online
27:08
Speaker 4: like memes made Kim Kardashian.
27:10
Speaker 3: Making fun of Kim Kardashian.
27:11
Speaker 4: On the feeds was a big part of producing her
27:13
Speaker 4: visibility and engaging us with her, and they went with that,
27:17
Speaker 4: and they tried really hard to be memed I think
27:18
Speaker 4: in the past few years, and it hasn't quite stuck.
27:20
Speaker 4: So that gave them a good meme run on the
27:22
Speaker 4: feeds again. As far as what I would like to see,
27:27
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think a lot of people
27:29
Speaker 4: would love to see more exposure around this Palenciauga scandal.
27:33
Speaker 4: I think people would like to see conversation about the
27:36
Speaker 4: fallout of Astro World still, like the real truth of
27:38
Speaker 4: Kylie's probably complicated relationship with Travis Scott Kim and Kanye's divorce.
27:43
Speaker 4: I mean, people will want to see those things. What
27:46
Speaker 4: I think we're going to get and what would probably
27:48
Speaker 4: serve my work is a further use of reality TV
27:56
Speaker 4: conventions like breaking the fourth wall, like talking about how
27:59
Speaker 4: it's a reality show, like showing us how a reality
28:02
Speaker 4: show itself is made, perhaps more visibility of the producers.
28:07
Speaker 4: That's what I think we're probably going to see more of.
28:09
Speaker 4: And I'm here for it because I think my teeth
28:11
Speaker 4: into that with different different French philosophy and stuff like that.
28:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and listen, I think that's very smart, and
28:19
Speaker 2: listen for me as somebody who loves the show, loves
28:22
Speaker 2: a family, and I listen. I want to give the
28:27
Speaker 2: Kardashians their props. I know a lot of people hate
28:30
Speaker 2: on them. I know a lot of people have this
28:34
Speaker 2: sort of weird relationship love or hate them With the Kardashians,
28:37
Speaker 2: I happen to be on the side of loving them.
28:40
Speaker 2: I had Malika Hawk on the show, who's a good
28:42
Speaker 2: friend of mine. She's great. I met Chloe, who's fantastic.
28:47
Speaker 2: I got a chance to meet Kim, who's a sweetheart.
28:50
Speaker 2: She's so sweet. I do think at some point, and
28:55
Speaker 2: one of my good friends, Kay Casey, who also has
28:58
Speaker 2: a podcast, she always says this, you have to leave
29:02
Speaker 2: on top.
29:03
Speaker 1: She talks about Derek Jeter, she talks.
29:06
Speaker 2: About other people who said, you know what, I need
29:10
Speaker 2: to leave on top. And as a family, who did
29:15
Speaker 2: be unthinkable, which is created a billion dollar brand in
29:21
Speaker 2: Pore if you will, based off of being themselves. I
29:25
Speaker 2: think Kim Kardashian deserves a star on the Hollywood Walk
29:29
Speaker 2: of Fame. I do think if you want to compare
29:32
Speaker 2: her to Mellie Monroe, I get it. You have to
29:36
Speaker 2: give Chris Jenna her props in terms of being probably
29:40
Speaker 2: the best mamager in the entire universe.
29:43
Speaker 1: You have to give them that.
29:46
Speaker 2: But at the same time, as a family, you guys
29:51
Speaker 2: have so much money that my concern is I don't
29:56
Speaker 2: want the greed of the dollar bill to seminate the brand,
30:02
Speaker 2: and that's going to be my concern. And as I
30:05
Speaker 2: reflect on the Kardashian seasons one and two, it really
30:11
Speaker 2: was an okay season on both ends, and my concern
30:19
Speaker 2: is if they're carrying on like that, is going to
30:24
Speaker 2: be the audience decision to lead them alone versus the
30:28
Speaker 2: other way around.
30:31
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and also with everything you were just saying, it
30:35
Speaker 4: reminded me I think people would really like to see
30:38
Speaker 4: the kids, which is like a you know, ethical question
30:40
Speaker 4: of how much the kids should be shown. And there
30:43
Speaker 4: was one more thing you said there that was really
30:45
Speaker 4: interesting to me.
30:46
Speaker 1: Oh the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
30:48
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, Yes, that's a prediction. That's a prediction.
30:52
Speaker 4: I think that we will have an episode where Kim
30:55
Speaker 4: gets the star. I think that they may have actually
30:57
Speaker 4: been consciously timing when they really make that application or
30:59
Speaker 4: what over the processes to get the star. But we're
31:01
Speaker 4: going to see an episode about the process of finding
31:03
Speaker 4: out I'm getting a star, How does the star work?
31:06
Speaker 4: How does it get made to put in the hands?
31:07
Speaker 4: And that's that's coming. It's on its way.
31:09
Speaker 2: And look that I want to see and I want
31:12
Speaker 2: to be clear, I liked it behind the scenes stuff,
31:14
Speaker 2: but again, we all fell in love because we saw
31:18
Speaker 2: the moment you were married for seventy two days Kim
31:21
Speaker 2: and got a divorce from this guy. We saw you
31:26
Speaker 2: check Reggie Bush on cheating on you. We saw all
31:29
Speaker 2: these things, and I think at the end of the day,
31:31
Speaker 2: we wanted to see more with you and Pete Davison,
31:34
Speaker 2: and we want to see how a woman who turned
31:37
Speaker 2: forty looking as good as you do is dating again
31:41
Speaker 2: and seeing those moments. So listen the Kardashians if you're listening, because.
31:48
Speaker 1: I know you are.
31:50
Speaker 2: We love you and we just want to see more
31:53
Speaker 2: more more. So MJ, thank you so much for coming
31:58
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Look, it's it's not every day you
32:01
Speaker 2: find somebody who is a connoisseur of the Kardashian Because
32:05
Speaker 2: I thought I was the only one.
32:06
Speaker 1: So it's nice to know I'm not alone in my
32:08
Speaker 1: love for them.
32:09
Speaker 2: But tell my listeners where they can find you, follow
32:12
Speaker 2: you and support you.
32:13
Speaker 4: Kardashian underscore colloquium, but colloquium spelled with a k on
32:17
Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok. And my name is MJ Corey, and
32:21
Speaker 4: so you can also find my columns for Vogue where
32:23
Speaker 4: I recap the show on vogue dot com search MJ.
32:26
Speaker 3: Corey and I have a.
32:28
Speaker 4: Big feature with The New Yorker where I talk about
32:30
Speaker 4: how Kim is a kin to an American superhero archetype.
32:35
Speaker 3: So thank you so much for having me.
32:37
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it, and I loved hearing you remind
32:41
Speaker 4: us all of the richer moments in the show's history
32:45
Speaker 4: because that really reminded me of It made me really
32:47
Speaker 4: think a lot about the power of the show once.
32:49
Speaker 1: Had yes and we want that power back.
32:51
Speaker 2: Girl.
32:52
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, MJ.
32:54
Speaker 2: And I want to invite you back after we see
32:57
Speaker 2: the season premiere of three so that you and I
33:00
Speaker 2: can dissect that.
33:01
Speaker 3: I would be honored. Thank you, yay, thank you.
33:09
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King. New
33:12
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