Latest / Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic / 84: What Are You Really Holding Onto? | Clutter, Guilt and Letting Go

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84: What Are You Really Holding Onto? | Clutter, Guilt and Letting Go · Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic

• 0:00
  Speaker: What do you assume the state of your home says about you?
• 0:02
  Speaker: If you've ever looked around at the clutter and thought, "Why can't I stay on top of this?" today's conversation might make you think differently.
• 0:10
  Speaker: My guest is Aly Luccari, founder of Bright Organizing Solutions.
• 0:15
  Speaker: Aly has been a professional organizer for 21 years, helping people create homes that support the lives they're actually living.
• 0:24
  Speaker: But what really caught my attention was an article Aly wrote about the importance of radical self-forgiveness when it comes to getting organized.
• 0:32
  Speaker: Because sometimes the hardest part of letting go of our stuff isn't deciding what to keep or what to throw away.
• 0:38
  Speaker: It's letting go of the guilt, the expectations, and the stories we've attached to those things.
• 0:45
  Speaker: In this conversation, Aly and I explore the shame that can surround clutter, why the systems we think we should have don't always serve us, and how even deciding what to do with old birthday cards can bring up some surprising emotions.
• 1:01
  Speaker: And along the way, I discovered a few things about my own relationship with clutter that I hadn't really considered before.
• 1:08
  Speaker: Here's my conversation with Aly
• 1:14
  Tania: Welcome to Banish the Lies, the podcast where we outsmart that sneaky inner critic and get closer to the truth that sets us free.
• 1:22
  Tania: I'm Tania Cervoni your host and fellow work in Progress here to share real stories and small shifts that help you reclaim what fear and doubt once stole.
• 1:33
  Tania: Let's jump in.
• 1:39
  Tania Cervoni: Welcome back, friends, to another episode of Banish the Lies.
• 1:42
  Tania Cervoni: As I mentioned in the introduction, I'm sitting here with Ally Luccari, and I'm very excited and very curious as to where this conversation will go.
• 1:51
  Tania Cervoni: So thank you so much, Ally, for coming onto the show, and welcome to Banish the Lies
• 1:56
  Aly Luccari: Thank you.
• 1:57
  Aly Luccari: My pleasure.
• 1:57
  Aly Luccari: I'm excited too, 'cause I never know, you know, what's going to come up
• 2:03
  Tania Cervoni: Awesome.
• 2:03
  Tania Cervoni: Well, let's find out.
• 2:04
  Tania Cervoni: And I'd like to start with a confession.
• 2:06
  Tania Cervoni: When our mutual friend Karen introduced us and Karen was like, "Oh, you should have Ally on the show," I'll be honest, I wondered what was the connection between a professional organizer and Banish the Lies?
• 2:20
  Tania Cervoni: And then I read one of your articles that said that the first step in organizing is radical self-forgiveness, and I thought, "Oh yeah, I'm seeing some connections already." So I'm wondering if we could start there.
• 2:34
  Tania Cervoni: Where did that idea come from?
• 2:37
  Aly Luccari: It came from working with clients and it's super hard for some people to open up their doors and expose themselves, for lack of a better word.
• 2:51
  Aly Luccari: I, I see a lot, everything's completely confidential, and if we pretend someone has a box that they haven't looked at in years, they've probably forgotten what's in it.
• 3:04
  Aly Luccari: They might have a general idea.
• 3:06
  Aly Luccari: I feel like the emotions to the items in the box are very present.
• 3:12
  Aly Luccari: And so it can be scary to open it up, and therefore resist it, and therefore now you have a box that you're, that there's negative energy associated with, and people can feel judged by it.
• 3:30
  Aly Luccari: 'Cause obviously it's not just a box, it can be clutter or what, disorganization, whatever you want to call it.
• 3:39
  Aly Luccari: And so a lot of people feel, well, unfortunately, people are judged by the state of their environment.
• 3:48
  Aly Luccari: And the pathway to moving forward is radical self-forgiveness.
• 3:56
  Aly Luccari: You just have to kind of accept it is what it is.
• 4:01
  Aly Luccari: And in the moment, however these items or the situation evolved, it happened, you were doing your best at that moment while it was going on, and moving forward is the best way.
• 4:17
  Aly Luccari: And like letting go of the past, radical self-forgiveness, accepting it is what it is, is really the first step
• 4:28
  Tania Cervoni: So I guess that's what it looks like.
• 4:29
  Tania Cervoni: It's telling yourself those, kinds of affirmations, those kinds of acknowledgments?
• 4:36
  Aly Luccari: You know, it's interesting.
• 4:37
  Aly Luccari: I don't even know if I'm thrilled with acknowledging them.
• 4:41
  Aly Luccari: I'm like, "Let's plow right through.
• 4:43
  Aly Luccari: Let's open that box up, see what's in there.
• 4:46
  Aly Luccari: I'm there to walk alongside you." Like, nothing, nothing has ever been so overwhelming that a solution couldn't be found or there's a solution for everything out there.
• 5:03
  Tania Cervoni: I love that
• 5:05
  Aly Luccari: I- it is such an honor when people open their doors and let me into their space and show me things that they've been hiding from friends and family, and the shame affiliated with it.
• 5:19
  Aly Luccari: And I hope I can give them a sense of non-judgment and just, you know...
• 5:27
  Aly Luccari: It's funny, as I've been dealing with some personal things.
• 5:32
  Aly Luccari: Here's our rabbit hole.
• 5:33
  Aly Luccari: So, preparing for my mother's, doing pre-planning well in advance for my mother, and realizing that I have my stepfather's ashes in my basement.
• 5:47
  Aly Luccari: And it feels overwhelming and embarrassing to me to admit it, but how they got there, each moment, it was the right decision for me to hold onto him.
• 6:02
  Aly Luccari: And now I'm getting to a point where my little sister can then take them on and do with, do with the ashes as she pleases.
• 6:12
  Aly Luccari: But it's, it's brought up so much stuff of, like, how we hold onto things and, and that path to holding onto it.
• 6:20
  Aly Luccari: And it doesn't matter what happened as to how he ended up in my basement.
• 6:26
  Aly Luccari: What matters is how the things get passed along.
• 6:30
  Aly Luccari: And he's in with a bunch of other things, and so there, that, that's a whole lot of decision-making that needs to be done.
• 6:39
  Aly Luccari: And when you have someone that can walk alongside you to help you make the wise decisions for you and empty those boxes, that's where the magic really happens
• 6:52
  Tania Cervoni: There's so much I want to ask about this.
• 6:55
  Tania Cervoni: So I, I definitely want to go deeper into the shame, uh, into what people are telling themselves about what the clutter means.
• 7:01
  Tania Cervoni: But before we go there, in the spirit of vulnerability, I will confess that I'm laughing at myself.
• 7:08
  Tania Cervoni: Before jumping on this call with you...
• 7:10
  Tania Cervoni: Now this is an audio-only podcast, so our listeners can't appreciate this, but Ellie and I are actually on video here on Zoom, and as I started the meeting, I looked behind me and I thought, "Is there a lot of stuff out of place?" Like, "I'm going to have a conversation with a professional organizer," and then I'm, seeing slippers on the floor, and a pile of books over here, and stuff that my puppy did over there, and I thought, "Wow, okay.
• 7:33
  Tania Cervoni: I'm starting already from a place of empathy.
• 7:36
  Tania Cervoni: I can only imagine when the clutter and all of that is next level." And in fact, you know, you made the comment, and I wrote it down here, um, in your article, "Shame is often heavier than the clutter itself." And I'm curious what that shame does to someone's ability to move forward.
• 8:01
  Aly Luccari: I think it stops them.
• 8:03
  Aly Luccari: Now, obviously I'm not a therapist, but I see it stopping them in their tracks.
• 8:08
  Aly Luccari: And it's really typically unmade decisions.
• 8:13
  Aly Luccari: And when the decisions are heavy and you're not sure what the right decision is.
• 8:21
  Aly Luccari: There's so many options out there, and we're told via multiple platforms what the proper decision is for us, but how do we know?
• 8:33
  Aly Luccari: How do you know unless you're looking at the situation holistically?
• 8:38
  Aly Luccari: And I feel like I'm talking so generally,
• 8:41
  Tania Cervoni: Well, what I'm hearing is also not only, that there's a level of objectivity that you can bring to people because you say, um, I loved the one I read, "Your home is not a moral report card." So I can see in my own life how self-judgment gets in the way of moving forward.
• 9:03
  Tania Cervoni: So it's, it seems like it's a combination of there's shame, there's self-judgment, there's overwhelm.
• 9:10
  Tania Cervoni: So what's the starting place?
• 9:13
  Tania Cervoni: Because I think many of us can relate to this idea that we don't quite deserve to move forward unless we have felt bad enough, right?
• 9:20
  Tania Cervoni: So it sounds like your clients are feeling really bad, and some of that needs to be lifted before they can move forward.
• 9:28
  Tania Cervoni: Is that accurate?
• 9:30
  Aly Luccari: I believe that's acc- well, not I believe.
• 9:32
  Aly Luccari: That is accurate.
• 9:34
  Aly Luccari: And I find the biggest way to alleviate the judgment and the shame is to open that box.
• 9:42
  Aly Luccari: And like opening your door to a professional organizer is like the gateway drug to alleviate the shame and the judgment.
• 9:56
  Aly Luccari: Because when the door is open and the box is open and we're looking at, I'm going to pick on myself here, you're looking at ashes from someone who passed away in 1986.
• 10:09
  Tania Cervoni: Oh, wow.
• 10:10
  Tania Cervoni: Okay
• 10:11
  Aly Luccari: Um, and then the history of why he got passed on, but when, if I were the client and bringing someone in and I was working with someone like me, I'd be like, "Oh, yeah.
• 10:24
  Aly Luccari: Okay, so now what are we going to do with him?
• 10:26
  Aly Luccari: Okay, he's here.
• 10:28
  Aly Luccari: What's the next step?" And, and I think looking at that next step kind of reverses, my hope is it reverses all the shame and all the guilt and the judgment that's been passed on.
• 10:43
  Aly Luccari: And I do feel that when friends and family express judgment, they are doing it from a place of love because they see greater potential in the space or in the person.
• 10:58
  Aly Luccari: They see how it's holding them back.
• 11:01
  Aly Luccari: But it's not up to others to determine how we live our lives.
• 11:07
  Aly Luccari: not up to me to determine the end result for our client.
• 11:13
  Aly Luccari: That is strictly up to the client.
• 11:16
  Aly Luccari: I just hope to leave them better
• 11:19
  Tania Cervoni: I love that.
• 11:20
  Tania Cervoni: Well, you say yourself that it's really important that the client really set the goal for the project.
• 11:26
  Tania Cervoni: So can you say a little bit more about why that's so crucial?
• 11:30
  Aly Luccari: The empowering aspect.
• 11:32
  Aly Luccari: If someone's completely overwhelmed, I'll take the first step, and then it's a check-in.
• 11:38
  Aly Luccari: How do you feel?
• 11:39
  Aly Luccari: What's, you know, what does this lead to?
• 11:41
  Aly Luccari: And it's interesting because a lot of times people want to address the surface space.
• 11:48
  Aly Luccari: So I'm going to pick on a very recent client, brought me in to help organize his desk top.
• 11:55
  Aly Luccari: And I was like, "I hear you, but where we really need to start is in the drawers, and we need to go deep and see what's in there." And it's almost like when we file things and they age out, we either forget that they age out or it's something difficult and, you know, there's, there's a h- a need to hold onto.
• 12:22
  Aly Luccari: And he was holding onto a lot of paperwork from his mother who had passed.
• 12:29
  Aly Luccari: And, and clearing out that drawer also helps clear out that final process when someone passes, and then it makes room for your current life.
• 12:43
  Aly Luccari: So now he has room to file the papers, so now it's easy-peasy to clear the desktop and put those things in a space that's more functional, and now we can achieve the goal of having clear surfaces in his office
• 13:02
  Tania Cervoni: I guess I knew this at a level, but hearing you describe that, I'm really taken aback at how much of this work, like the organizing, is truly emotional.
• 13:11
  Tania Cervoni: Like, I even think about in my own life, I do get to the point where I'll just put piles of things, papers, whatever, and I've often condemn myself for like, "Why can't I just stay on top of this?
• 13:24
  Aly Luccari: First of all, thank you so much for using that example.
• 13:28
  Aly Luccari: That is, that's perfection right there.
• 13:31
  Aly Luccari: And you know what, girlfriend?
• 13:35
  Aly Luccari: Maybe that's just your system.
• 13:37
  Tania Cervoni: hmmm.
• 13:37
  Aly Luccari: Maybe that's just your system, and if it's your system, rock and roll with that.
• 13:42
  Aly Luccari: You know?
• 13:43
  Aly Luccari: Ma-make it work for you.
• 13:46
  Aly Luccari: And I would hope that you then set aside time to go through that, like, the term, like, doom box or doom bag, when we take everything and we just put it in, and we just clear a space and we put it away.
• 14:00
  Aly Luccari: That to me indicates that you have a strong appreciation for clarity, and you're going to function better with that clarity.
• 14:08
  Aly Luccari: And when we do things naturally, try and incorporate that into your system, and then give yourself time and space and permission to go back and address that box where everything sort of got stuck
• 14:25
  Tania Cervoni: Hmm.
• 14:25
  Tania Cervoni: I love that word permission right there because what I'm also hearing here is I wonder whether you find clients are comparing themselves to how things should be because, I find it difficult to stay organized in the daily.
• 14:40
  Tania Cervoni: Like, I'll let it only get so messy, then I'll deal with it.
• 14:42
  Tania Cervoni: But, Like, before our conversation, I cleared off my desk 'cause I needed to focus, but it's just sitting in a pile here beside me just just so you know.
• 14:49
  Tania Cervoni: Um, and I wonder if sometimes we create systems for the way that we think we should be or the way we think our life should look versus who we actually are and what we need.
• 15:04
  Tania Cervoni: So do you find that people are trying to organize their home according to shoulds or according to how other people do it and failing to realize what they need?
• 15:13
  Aly Luccari: 100%.
• 15:15
  Aly Luccari: And I like to brag to clients that the majority of times I go to bed with a dirty pot and/or pan on the stove top.
• 15:28
  Aly Luccari: And that's because I torture myself with this very complicated but very lovely tasting pour-over coffee.
• 15:36
  Aly Luccari: So it's time-consuming.
• 15:38
  Aly Luccari: You have to wait for the water to boil, then you have to do the slow pour over the coffee grounds, and I use that time to clean the last of the dishes from dinner the night before.
• 15:49
  Aly Luccari: And, and, and I love to see the shock on people's faces when I'm like, "Yep, I go to bed with a couple of dirty pots and pans in my sink or on my stove," and that's just part of my system.
• 16:03
  Aly Luccari: And I embrace it.
• 16:05
  Aly Luccari: That's how I rock and roll.
• 16:07
  Aly Luccari: If anyone has a problem with it, they can come in and clean my kitchen before I go to bed.
• 16:12
  Aly Luccari: I'll be fine with that.
• 16:14
  Aly Luccari: That's the magic of dirty dishes.
• 16:16
  Aly Luccari: They never go anywhere.
• 16:17
  Aly Luccari: Like, they wait patiently for you.
• 16:20
  Tania Cervoni: Yeah, it's funny.
• 16:22
  Tania Cervoni: As you're saying that, I'm realizing that the majority of the time that I do my dishes, especially when I empty my dishwasher, I'm doing it while talking to a friend on the phone.
• 16:32
  Tania Cervoni: Because I really despise emptying the dishwasher.
• 16:36
  Aly Luccari: I think there's a beauty to embracing the things we don't like to do, like emptying the dishwasher.
• 16:44
  Tania Cervoni: You're about to tell me not to talk on the phone while I do it, right?
• 16:47
  Tania Cervoni: You're going to, it's going to be like this immersive, meditative, present moment experience
• 16:53
  Aly Luccari: Right.
• 16:53
  Aly Luccari: And it's, it's almost like a beautiful dance.
• 16:56
  Aly Luccari: I mean, there was a time when I hated doing dishes and my ex-husband's is a chef and, you know, cleaning up after that where every pot and pan got dirty.
• 17:07
  Aly Luccari: But the food was really good.
• 17:09
  Aly Luccari: I can't complain about the food.
• 17:10
  Aly Luccari: And, when we attach angst to things that we need to do every day, it's kind of a waste of mental energy.
• 17:17
  Aly Luccari: And, finding the joy in it may be a stretch.
• 17:22
  Aly Luccari: But I wonder if part of the angst could be trying to have a lovely, productive, revitalizing conversation with your friend.
• 17:33
  Aly Luccari: Is emptying the dishwasher taking away from the joy of that conversation?
• 17:39
  Tania Cervoni: Hmm.
• 17:40
  Tania Cervoni: Not a lot of thinking has to go into putting away dishes, but it probably does steal a little bit of my attention and maybe instead of 100% being present to my friend, maybe I'm 95%, and is it worth compromising the 5%?
• 17:56
  Aly Luccari: Yes.
• 17:56
  Aly Luccari: And I would also wonder, are there, like, crunchy spots in your kitchen where it's hard to put things away, and is that causing a little bit of angst when it comes to emptying the dishwasher?
• 18:12
  Aly Luccari: Like, if you have too many cups and now you have to put all your cups in there and it's, it's hard to get them all in there, is that part of the challenge?
• 18:23
  Tania Cervoni: It's almost like you're just reading my mind, and it's also you're correct, I have too many cups.
• 18:30
  Tania Cervoni: Um, and it's also making me wonder about something you said in, I think it was in the same article, where you said, "Life changes faster than our homes do." What do you mean by that, and does it relate to this conversation?
• 18:43
  Aly Luccari: Typically I'm brought into someone's house when they've been in it over five or six years.
• 18:49
  Aly Luccari: And if you move into a house and pretend you have a newborn, think of all the changes at that five or six-year mark, and have you been able to keep up?
• 19:03
  Aly Luccari: And I think a newborn is probably a bad example, but if you move in with a middle schooler and then they're a high schooler, that's a huge change in a child's life, and it's also a huge change in an adult's life, especially if we are managing things with our parents.
• 19:21
  Aly Luccari: If they're downsizing, what are they bestowing upon us?
• 19:25
  Aly Luccari: And did we take it out of obligation?
• 19:29
  Aly Luccari: Yes, I'm putting my hand up.
• 19:31
  Aly Luccari: I have a dresser in my living room and I have a dresser in my entryway, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but antiques handed down, I chose to keep them.
• 19:42
  Aly Luccari: And so, will those pieces still serve me in, in another three or four or five years?
• 19:53
  Aly Luccari: And stopping to look at things that we look at all the time can be a challenge, because when things don't fit our lives, we put on proverbial blinders and we don't see them after a while.
• 20:11
  Aly Luccari: It's like a pretty painting that, you know, you buy a painting and you hang it in your dining room and you see it for the first, I don't know, maybe year.
• 20:20
  Aly Luccari: Actually, my favorite example is birthday cards.
• 20:24
  Tania Cervoni: Oh, let's, let's go there because I have a box that is overflowing with them, and it feels like to discard them is to discard the well wishes of the people who sent them.
• 20:37
  Tania Cervoni: So I would love to have a new perspective on that, please, and thank you.
• 20:41
  Tania Cervoni: I'm getting free advice.
• 20:42
  Tania Cervoni: I love it
• 20:43
  Aly Luccari: Absolutely.
• 20:44
  Aly Luccari: So birthday cards.
• 20:45
  Aly Luccari: Is it safe to assume that you put them out when you first receive them?
• 20:51
  Tania Cervoni: I do
• 20:52
  Aly Luccari: Okay.
• 20:52
  Aly Luccari: And I'm all for that.
• 20:54
  Aly Luccari: My theory is put them out, enjoy them.
• 20:58
  Aly Luccari: You're going to see them, you know, for the short term, and then you'll stop seeing them, and then you're going to see them again and go, "Oh my gosh, you're still here." When you see them that second cycle, that's when I recommend to put them away.
• 21:14
  Aly Luccari: I would say choose your favorites, depending on how many you have.
• 21:19
  Aly Luccari: Can you choose your very favorites?
• 21:23
  Aly Luccari: And can those favorites...
• 21:25
  Aly Luccari: Actually, can you give me an approximate number of how many birthday cards you receive?
• 21:32
  Aly Luccari: Is it less than 1,000?
• 21:34
  Aly Luccari: 'Cause you are such a lovely person, I can only
• 21:37
  Tania Cervoni: all my fan mail?
• 21:38
  Tania Cervoni: No, I'm just kidding.
• 21:39
  Tania Cervoni: I don't get, I don't get physical fan mail.
• 21:41
  Tania Cervoni: So I might get definitely under 10, for example.
• 21:45
  Tania Cervoni: Um, I think some of the hardest ones is if it's from my mom, because presumably she's going to predecease me, and that I'm going to love going back and reading these messages that she wrote.
• 21:59
  Tania Cervoni: And I find that challenging.
• 22:01
  Aly Luccari: The sentiments are there and were there and passed along whether you have the physical card or not.
• 22:07
  Aly Luccari: I believe that it's, it's deep in our soul.
• 22:10
  Aly Luccari: It's deep in our spirit.
• 22:12
  Aly Luccari: And the cards weren't given to you to become an anchor or a weight on you to have to make a heavy decision about.
• 22:25
  Aly Luccari: They were given to you out of love and joy and celebration, and you have had that every birthday of your life, and you will continue to receive that love and that joy and that celebration with or without the representation of the physical card
• 22:47
  Tania Cervoni: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Tania Cervoni: So interesting.
• 22:50
  Tania Cervoni: Again, coming back to questioning the beliefs we hold around things, and I can see how the beliefs can lead to carrying this burden that nobody has actually asked of me.
• 23:02
  Tania Cervoni: Like my mother, as an example, has never said, "I hope you're saving every single birthday card I have ever sent you."
• 23:10
  Aly Luccari: Or, and on the flip side and along the lines of birthday cards, parents who feel like they need to save every piece of artwork their child brought home.
• 23:20
  Tania Cervoni: I went through that phase.
• 23:23
  Aly Luccari: their future 25-year-old, 35, 40, whatever age child is not going to be like, "Oh, yay, Mom, you saved everything I ever touched a crayon onto." That's a huge thing to pass along to somebody.
• 23:42
  Aly Luccari: So there's, picking your favorites and, following your intuition and what resonates with you.
• 23:48
  Aly Luccari: And knowing when you get the quantity that's comfortable and manageable for you, the confidence that it should increase in the client is what I look for.
• 24:00
  Aly Luccari: And then knowing that you can always go back and review and let go of even more if that's where you are in your life.
• 24:06
  Tania Cervoni: that's powerful.
• 24:07
  Tania Cervoni: I'm curious, so I'm going in a bit of a different direction.
• 24:11
  Tania Cervoni: I love to ask guests, a personal question in terms of a lie that they've had to deal with or a story that they've had to overcome in their own life, and you talked about, this idea of a scarcity mindset So I'm curious how that has shown up personally for you, and is it something you also see in your clients?
• 24:31
  Tania Cervoni: I'm curious why you mentioned scarcity specifically.
• 24:34
  Aly Luccari: Yeah, personally it does show up.
• 24:36
  Aly Luccari: I, like many other people, have a fear of scarcity of money.
• 24:41
  Aly Luccari: And it's interesting like I've made it this far, you know?
• 24:46
  Aly Luccari: I've made it to almost 58 and I've been fine.
• 24:49
  Aly Luccari: And so I feel like my fear of scarcity of money is a lie and how I see it in my clients is when they're holding onto that red ribbon that's eight and a half inches long and they know that there's going to be the perfect package that this eight and a half red ribbon is going to go on.
• 25:17
  Aly Luccari: And so they hold onto it, and to me, that's a scarcity mindset.
• 25:22
  Aly Luccari: What I love about that example is chances are I'm working with a crafter and a very creative person.
• 25:29
  Aly Luccari: And two, if we let go of all the, you know, if we define any ribbon that's less than 10 inches can go away, then when the situation arrives that that perfect eight and a half inch red ribbon will work, there's going to be something else.
• 25:48
  Aly Luccari: There's going to be some creative energy.
• 25:50
  Aly Luccari: There's going to be something else that's available for that package and that use.
• 25:56
  Aly Luccari: And so I'd recommend to keep just enough spools of ribbon and use the spool, and when it's done, let the spool go, as opposed to managing all these little pieces of things that will be perfect for one event that probably will come up.
• 26:15
  Aly Luccari: Because we can hold onto everything.
• 26:19
  Aly Luccari: There isn't one item that comes into our life that won't be the perfect thing for something.
• 26:25
  Aly Luccari: But realistically, in managing those things is what takes our time and our energy.
• 26:33
  Aly Luccari: And I believe people's homes should be their sanctuary.
• 26:39
  Aly Luccari: It should support them in a way that they need for the current lifestyle that they're living.
• 26:46
  Aly Luccari: And there shouldn't be angst.
• 26:49
  Aly Luccari: There shouldn't be a need to put on blinders when we walk into our home at the end of a long day We should be able to bring things into our home that we need, put them away eloquently, and move on with our life, and not leave things out because they didn't fit in the pantry.
• 27:12
  Tania Cervoni: What I'm really hearing is the ultimate goal sounds like freedom, and there's such a cost associated with holding onto things.
• 27:19
  Tania Cervoni: And I love the ribbon example 'cause it's simple.
• 27:21
  Tania Cervoni: I think it's super relatable.
• 27:23
  Tania Cervoni: When, when everything is precious, nothing is precious, and good luck even remembering that you have the 8.5-inch ribbon or, like, to your point, even being able to find it.
• 27:32
  Tania Cervoni: So I can definitely see how scarcity and the attachment to things, can wreak havoc on our ability to enjoy our homes and experience freedom, both physically, emotionally, visually, like, all of it.
• 27:47
  Tania Cervoni: So that's, that's a beautiful example.
• 27:50
  Aly Luccari: And I just, I just had an epiphany that our scarcity is someone else's abundance.
• 27:54
  Aly Luccari: One of my favorite charity places is Stitch Buffalo, and they would love, I think, a bag of ribbons.
• 28:04
  Aly Luccari: And I'm not sure if you're familiar with Stitch Buffalo
• 28:09
  Tania Cervoni: not, but I'm going to look it up after this conversation
• 28:13
  Aly Luccari: Absolutely.
• 28:14
  Aly Luccari: And, when we have an overwhelming amount of donations, take it to a place where you can just let it all go en masse and know that it will find its proper place
• 28:28
  Tania Cervoni: I love that so much.
• 28:29
  Tania Cervoni: So if someone is listening, right now and they're looking around their home and they're feeling that familiar wave of shame, what would you want them to know?
• 28:40
  Aly Luccari: They are not alone.
• 28:43
  Tania Cervoni: hmmmm
• 28:43
  Aly Luccari: And there is, I want to say hope.
• 28:46
  Aly Luccari: There are actions that can be taken where they can experience peace, joy, and confidence in their home.
• 28:56
  Aly Luccari: Because as you're going through the decluttering or organizing process, you're developing an intimate knowledge of what you have.
• 29:06
  Aly Luccari: And when you know what you have, there's a confidence.
• 29:12
  Tania Cervoni: so I guess maybe one place to end, to circle around, building on what you just said, if you could banish one lie that people tell themselves about their homes or their stuff or what it says about them what would be the one thing you'd want to leave people knowing?
• 29:29
  Aly Luccari: That they're worthy.
• 29:29
  Aly Luccari: That they're
• 29:31
  Tania Cervoni: उम्म, उम्म।
• 29:34
  Aly Luccari: They're worthy of an environment that is loving and supportive
• 29:41
  Tania Cervoni: I feel that.
• 29:42
  Tania Cervoni: And I can just even feel your emotion when you say that.
• 29:45
  Tania Cervoni: Obviously people can't see, but she's waving her face, kind of fanning her face from the emotion, uh, with her hands.
• 29:51
  Aly Luccari: Getting, drying the tears.
• 29:52
  Aly Luccari: They're drying the,
• 29:53
  Tania Cervoni: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Tania Cervoni: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:55
  Tania Cervoni: Well, it's clearly extremely transformational work, and I've really appreciated understanding in a deeper way the lies we tell ourselves, the stories about our worth, about, what's really important.
• 30:08
  Tania Cervoni: Like, so much must come up in the process.
• 30:10
  Tania Cervoni: It's beautiful, it's healing.
• 30:12
  Tania Cervoni: And if people want to learn more about you and Bright Organizing, where can they find you?
• 30:19
  Aly Luccari: I'd like to say I'm on all the socials, but I'm not.
• 30:21
  Aly Luccari: I, I'm mostly on Facebook and LinkedIn a little bit.
• 30:26
  Tania Cervoni: Well, obviously your website is it brightorganizing.com?
• 30:30
  Aly Luccari: Correct.
• 30:30
  Aly Luccari: Yes
• 30:31
  Tania Cervoni: put that in the show notes for sure so that people, can find you.
• 30:35
  Tania Cervoni: I just want to thank you so much.
• 30:37
  Tania Cervoni: I've really enjoyed this conversation.
• 30:39
  Tania Cervoni: I love the way you bring so much grace and humanity, to something that people can carry a lot of shame around.
• 30:45
  Tania Cervoni: So thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable and sharing your perspective
• 30:50
  Aly Luccari: Oh, it's been my pleasure.
• 30:52
  Aly Luccari: And if someone wants to, if I may, um, wants to have a conversation with me, I love to do coffee and Zooms.
• 31:01
  Aly Luccari: And I think you and I did a coffee and Zoom.
• 31:03
  Tania Cervoni: correct
• 31:05
  Aly Luccari: And on my website is of course a contact form.
• 31:08
  Aly Luccari: Just, you know, put in your name, your email address.
• 31:11
  Aly Luccari: I'll send you a link to my calendar, and they can click, a time that works for both of us, and I'll be happy to Instacart a beverage of their choice.
• 31:22
  Aly Luccari: And yeah, and then we can have a nice little meeting virtually
• 31:27
  Tania Cervoni: I love that, and that's so fun.
• 31:29
  Tania Cervoni: And that just, I think, really aligns with the joy that I feel in your personality and in your work and what you must bring to your clients.
• 31:37
  Tania Cervoni: So again, thank you
• 31:40
  Aly Luccari: Thank you
• 31:45
  Tania: Thanks for listening to Banish The Lies.
• 31:47
  Tania: If today's episode resonated with you, take a moment to let it settle in.
• 31:51
  Tania: And maybe share it with a friend who could use it too.
• 31:53
  Tania: Lies, lose their power when we're brave enough to challenge them.
• 31:57
  Tania: I'm Tania Cervoni and until next time, be kind to yourself.
• 32:02
  Tania: And remember, you're not broken, you're not alone, and you don't have to stay stuck.