Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Esperanza Spalding

Transcript

Esperanza Spalding · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Esperanza Spalding won Best New Artist at the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Grammys in twenty eleven, she made headlines for two reasons.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: One she was the first ever jazz musician to win
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the award, and two she stole Best New Artist from
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Justin Bieber. The believers are still pissed. Since that first
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: big win, Esperanza has won three more Grammys and released
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: seven studio albums, including twenty seventeen's Exposure, which was conceived, written,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and recorded entirely in seventy seven hours on Facebook Live.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, to released twelve Little Spells. It was
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: inspired by the Japanese healing art ray Ki, with each
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: song composed as a spell for a specific part of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the body. Looking at her body of work and how
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: she's evolved from a young, prodigious stand up bass player
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and jazz composer to an experimental, multimedia conceptual artist, it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: easy to see why Esperanza Spalding sees herself as more
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: than a jazz musician, but her improvisational approach to turning
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: abstract ideas into emotionally moving pieces of music pretty much
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: makes her the personification of jazz, whether she likes it
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: or not this is broken record liner notes for the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Esperanza sat with Bruce Heilom
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and Brooklyn to talk about the instinctual way she makes music,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: jamming with Joni Mitchell, and the opera she's writing with
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the legendary Wayne Shorter that's set to be released next year. Wow,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: this voice is really beautiful. It's got a good vibe
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and it's huge. This is actually reminding me how much
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I love to be in the studio. It's been about
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a year, and I think that means it's time to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: go back soon. You haven't been in a studio in
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: a year, and was for that. That was for twelve
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Little Spells, for the four Bonus Spells. It's actually sixteen
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Little Spells now because because of some of the finagling
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: that one must do when you're dancing through the music industry,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I wanted twelve and for there to be a second
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: wave and reason to talk about the project again. I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: was asked and encouraged right for more songs, because apparently
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I'm I've yet to grow into the awareness of what
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it is to generate music as commodity. My first instinct
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: is already to figure out a way to just release
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it big and around and wide. Um. So I wanted
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to release the twelve Little Spells one every day at
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: twelve twelve leading up to my birthday, and I wanted
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to just blast them out because I wanted the the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: effect of the Spells to reach as many people as possible. Um.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: But that's it. It's hard to capitalize on that approach.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So in collaboration with the label, we came up with
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: the idea, well, let's make former bonus Spells and then
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: there's a reason to go get the record. So now
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: we should explain twelve Little Spells, which was your last
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: full album. Yeah, they were twelve songs now sixteen, but
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: they were based on different parts of the body. Did
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the concept come first for that or did the songs
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: come first? It came as a hit, almost like an
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: instruction manual. I can remember I was in transit. I
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: don't remember from where to where, but I know that
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: by the time I got home to my apartment, I
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: had written out the outline of the whole project that
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: it was twelve Little Spells and the title and what
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the title was saying, which was an announcement of what
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: this work is as an interim piece before the next
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: big project. So the titles twelve little spells to tide
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: you over to the next full thing. Touch in my, Touch,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in mine, the longing deep down. You have to dance now, no,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: all limbs are readying to rise, dancing the animal with others.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: And it was a it's a sort of poem explanation
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of what this project is until the next project, which
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: is about dancing and movement and dancing that the wild, untethered,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: free forms of dance with structured presentation. Um. Yeah. So
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: by the time I got home, here were the song titles,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: here were their effects on the body, and I had
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: my instruction manual. And then I spent a month and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: some change just assembling that structure, assembling that entity from
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the instruction manual. So you wrote all that on the subway, No,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I wrote it all in the castle in Italy. Okay,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: but m yeah, that was amazing. That was amazing. Every
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: morning I would be, um, you know, go for where
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: will you pick up your espresso in the morning if
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: you so desired? And they had me in the converted
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: pig pen because I didn't want to be in the cask,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: because I figured it would be extremely haunted. So I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: would go get my espresso and then walk around the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: priffrey of the castle back towards my converted pig pen,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: which is on another, you know, part of the grounds,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and I would pass Azar Nafisi almost every day, who
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was working on her book, And just that process of witnessing,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: you know, a master craftsman sitting and witnessing the development
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of their piece page by page, you know, was the fuel,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: part of the fuel I think for making this happen,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: because you know, the creative process is abstract. It feels
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: sometimes like you're doing nothing. So it was so encouraging
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and affirming to witness another person in that practice, accumulating
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that body that they came to work on. Now there's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: always the descriptions of you you were prodigy, or this
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: you were that. I would like to lean into the
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: microphone now and spell those myths that I was a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: prodigy or anything like that. I wasn't a prodigy. I am.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I have a talent in music, and I found my
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: way early on. But I have seen prodigies, and I
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: know prodigies, and it's a thing. It's like it's like
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a subset of the species, you know, and I just
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I partly want to dispel that myth because I think
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: it it's misleading. You know, it makes it seem like
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: maybe there's something special or something different fundamentally about you know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: my makeup as an as an entity, as a humanoid,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and it's not true. You know, there are some folks
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: who are and they're exceedingly rare, and then there are
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: other folks who just figured out a way to get
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of practice in early on and it accumulates
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and then you can do things that other ten year
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: olds can't do. But it's best of it because I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: was a prodigy. It's because I I played a lot.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I practice a lot. Well is that good?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Because you know prodigies and you know, being a prodigy
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: often is it's maladaptive. They don't. It's if you're great
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: at something when you're five, often you're doing the same
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: thing at thirty five. And people are you know, there's
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: always those those great classical musicians who are you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: who are described as the fifty year old child prodigy.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You know, they can't kind of get past what they
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: did at a a certain age, right. And I the part
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: that I resonate with about that quote unquote prodigy part
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: is simply the part where nobody can explain why you
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: can do what you can do, you know, And I
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: think part of what sets a prodigy apart is that
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: for the same amount of time that their friend in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the music school puts in, this kid just gets more done. Somehow, somehow,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: there's a to do more for reasons that nobody can explain.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And at a certain point, when you want to expand
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: past what it is you've become good at, but you
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: don't remember why you can do what you do, that
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: is intimidating and stressful it can be. And I can't
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: appreciate why you wouldn't you wouldn't lean into that territory.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And there are some aspects about you know, my practice
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: that I it's like abousing before the divination. There are
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: some aspects that I don't know. I don't know how
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: that happens or how it works. But when I try
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to apply that to like a new medium, let's say,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: like writing an opera doesn't work, then you discover like, hmm, okay,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: there's a process here, there's a there's a skill set
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: that must be developed to yield the same results over here.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: As I'm able to yield over there without having necessarily
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: mastered that skill set, you know, So just saying I
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: have compassion for the fifty year old child prodigies out there.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: What was your first experience of music then? What do
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: you remember? Well, it would be my mother singing in
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the house and making up little songs about whatever was
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: happening in the moment. So she she had this one.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You don't need to cry because your mama is by
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: your mama who love you and will never never leave you.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: You don't need to cry because your mama is by
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you know. I don't know where that comes from, but she,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: she would always have this sort of soundtrack happening to life.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: There was a wake up song, there was a prepping
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the meal song. And that is my first memory of music.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: My first memory of music out there was hearing your
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: mom on my stage's neighborhood. Like I've said that so
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: many times in my life, but it was and hearing
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: your hearing your mom, hearing the box cello suite. I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: don't know if it was aomara, was the box teller sueeze,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: but by the way, he was a vehicle and on
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: mister Rodgers neighborhood, mister Rodgers neighbor which also the interesting
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: piece about that episode is after Yoma performed, they went
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: to make Believe Land, and in that episode, the next
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: thing that happened is Lady Amberlin was dressed as an
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: upright bass and the other woman character was playing an
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: upright bass. And I don't have a conscious memory of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: seeing that. But that, again, was like the download that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: all came at once, and then it's a humbling reckoning
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm again just I'm just following the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: programming that I didn't even realize I received, you know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: a five. So now was that just a memory or
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: on mister Rodgers Neighborhood that actually happened. I only know
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: that that happened because I've seen it since I don't
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: have a conscious memory of seeing that in the episode.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: What I remember is hearing I didn't know it was
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: about tells at the time. I can remember the prickling
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: in the this um almost like pain, you know, such
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a deep sensation of attraction to something that I felt
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: towards the music that Yoma was playing. No conscious memory
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: of seeing the basses. But later when I saw the episode,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I went, oh damn, I'm just I've just following the instructions.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: You know that all came at the same time. Um,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: those are my first memories of music. Well, you can
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: do worse than following, mister rogers omen I agree. I
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: think you did well. And then your first instrument was what, well,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: it would have been violent. They didn't have any um,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: half sized or quarter sized cellos at the program that
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I first enter music through, so it was fortunately or
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: unfortunately violin and that yeah, unfortunately you didn't like the violin.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't really like the violet. I like other people
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: playing the violin, but yeah, I was seeking that sound.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I was seeking what I heard. I wanted the cello,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and thank god, and then I just get past the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: tell I want right up to the next floor, up
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to the base. And then when did the bass start?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the bass has started yet.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: It's such a immense territory and for all the technical
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: facility one can accumulate early on again serves a very
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: profound function in music. And I I think that the
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: older one gets, the more one matures, the better they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: are at actually being a bass player. So I don't know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know if bass has begun yeah, when you
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: started playing. How much were you practicing? I don't remember really,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: probably a lot, I don't. I don't remember those early days.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I just remember um playing by ear and suddenly hearing
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: this music that I was told was jazz and having
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a very deep, again visceral reaction to whatever they were doing,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: you know, having no understanding of what it was or
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: how it worked. Um, yeah, are you still that kind
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of instinctual player or because this is what scares people
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: about jazz. It's incredibly complicated. It seems like endless scales
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is all that theory? Do you know all that stuff?
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You know some? Yeah? Yeah, and it never ends because
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the in not because I don't feel authorized to speak
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: on behalf of the genre in anyway, because I would
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: say I'm a jazz singer when I need to be,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and I can play bass for the jazz musicians, but
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the center piece, like the center of what it is
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I do isn't really jazz because of that practice and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: devotion that is required. You don't think you have it,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: not in that way, not in that way as an instrumentalist,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: which is fine. It's cool because I can still support
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the instrumentalists who are in that devotional, devotional practice. But
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: that's how you started. You were you were known as
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: a jazz bassis, absolute best new artist I think, right right? Yeah,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And still I wonder what the parallel isn't writing? It's
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: like you can support, you can be a part of
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: something without actually being a devotee of that craft. Well,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: most writing is all you mean writing music or writing,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I mean writing word. So what do you know? Because
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: if I go on YouTube, I see you playing with
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Herbie Hancock and check Korea. Yeah, what are they? What
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: are you giving them? Then there's got to be more
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: technically sophisticated players are at least more theoretically sophisticated players
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: than you. You're doing this by instinct. What do they
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: get when I asked you to come and play with me?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: What what am I getting? You're getting listening and lightspeed
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: response and some a dance floor for your dance. I'm
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: giving you a moving dance floor. And I have studied
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: some of the theory, just to say partially, I like
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to rearticulate this because for any young aspiring instrumentalist listening,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I'm speaking that truth
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: that to be a quote unquote jazz musician like, don't
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: listen to me. Listen to Scott Colly or you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Ben Williams, Christian McBride or Linda o or players who
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: if you if you want to have a queue into
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the expression of the jazz pedagogy, listen to those bass players.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I'm doing something that's valuable and beautiful in works and supports,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: but it's not really coming from that kind of devotional space.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It's very intuitive and very much in the presence, very
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: much something that evolves in relationship with players. You know, So, yes,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I can play with her, but I can play with
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: chick because I'm I'm becoming what is needed in that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: moment with my technical facility to you know, come as
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: my voice, as my listening as my voice. It's almost
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: like an active listening with players like that. So are they?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Are they because you're a band leader as well. When
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: you're playing with players like that, are they kind of
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: setting the tone and then you're responding? Is it more
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: call response with them? Yeah, it's it's more like, well
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: with somebody like you know, Herbie Hancock or Jerry Allen.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: They want to have the conversation that can only happen
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: with you in the room. It's not like, Okay, I
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: hear these ten songs, you happen to be the one here,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: so yeah, come get in on this and make this
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: work for me. Especially with Herbie, especially with Jerry, it's
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: more like, oh, who are you? What do we sound
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like together? And in that space it might kind of
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: be an advantage not be too tethered to a technical
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: or historical or pedagogical approach to making the music, because
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: then you're free to discover what's actually happening in real time,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: which might not sound like anything that that player did before.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: It's going to have their character ristic. But that is
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: my superpower, you know, of being president, going like whoa
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: what what is this? Actually? Right now? Let's make it
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and it won't probably happen again. And that was that,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You know, do you have to do You have to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: make eye contact with a player. To do that, you
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: have to see what he's doing just here? Really, could
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you do it blindfolded? Yeah? Of course really? Yeah, of course.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I don't look. I don't look at the instrument I
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: want to play. No, I don't mean your instrument. I
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: mean I mean I mean the combination of like if
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: if you're playing with you know Wayne Shorter here be
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: hancocked there. Yeah, that's a that's a great day. I
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: wish that would happen more. But you know, string quartets,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the players kind of have to see each other, they
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: have to see the cues. I'm wondering how important is
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that in when you're playing in a jazz combo. Well,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of I'm thinking of Wayne's quartet. They are
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: very much connected with each other, looking at each other.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But I am positive they could do everything they do
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: blindfolded because they're they're co composing a scene. You know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sure actors could have a perfectly potent
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and coherent improvised scene blindfolded because you're you're responding to
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the reality of emotional response. You're responding to what comes
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: at you, and eventually a momentum of the scene is
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: generated and that is propelling you forward as much as
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: you're creating it as you go. You know, that mode
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: of performance, co composition improvisation is like that. Okay, next
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: time you're with Herbie Hancock, I want you to blindfold
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: yourself and see see how it comes. I don't I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't never ask him to do that, but I'll think
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I'll just I'll hold it in the space and see
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: what happens if I don't look. I mean, I remember
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: dancing tango a little bit when I was a teammate,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and you know, there's certain fundamentals that you learn, and
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: it's an improvisational dance form, right Obviously, when you're dancing
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: with a phenomenal dancer, everything just kind of works, you know.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: And I remember that experience of being very inexperienced and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: getting on the dance floor and just be like, oh damn,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I can do I'm good. Shoot everything. I'm twisting and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: turning and kicking all kinds of stuff, and then you
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: go dance with the next partner and it's like fuck.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like a fumble, looks like a like
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: a civil ware drawer without a divider, you know. So
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: there's also something to be said for the potency of
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the master, you know that partially just by playing with
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: somebody like that, the the immensity of their musicianship and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: ability to make everything work kind of heightens your own
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: capacity and shows what is possible. We'll be back with
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: more from Esperanza Spalding after the break. We're back with
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: more from Esperanza Spalding. What's it like working with Wayne Shorter?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You talked about his writing before, Ye, what's it like
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: playing with him? We've actually only played a few times,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and it felt like visiting another planet. It truly felt
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: like we've been living on one musical planet your whole life,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: seeing different lands and territories and cities and towns and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: ruralities and municipalities, and then you step onto what you
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: think is just another land. You know, music starts, Okay,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: here we are, and all of a sudden you recognize, like, no,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: all of this is different. All of this is extraterrestrial,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: all of this is expansive. All of this is just
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: more and different and shaped like the Earth. And maybe
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: the gravity is similar, but it's not. He is so
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: incredibly adept at connecting seemingly disparit ideas in a room,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in a conversation, and musically that is, it's like it
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: feels like you have to start listening at light speed
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to be able to connect what just came over there
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: with what's happening over there. That is nebulous. I apologize
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: it's hard to describe it, but is it scary playing
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: with someone like that? Yeah? Sure, yeah, very much. So, Yeah,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And why is it scary? Why is it scary? What
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: does scary? I mean in that context? Is it scary?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It's scary in a sense of oh damn, can I
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: can I hang? Can I help? Can I woo? Can
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I feel free? What is that of the most that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I can bring into the space? Will it have a place?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Will it work? You know? You know, it's like sitting
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: at a table and a conversations already happening, and you're like,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know what anybody here is talking about, but
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I'm being asked to come and speak. So it's something
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: about having the trust that your life is enough, that
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: what you've lived endows you with insight and perspective and presence,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and that the other people at the table actually want
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to talk with you. So it's not about I'm able
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: to refer to the things that you all have studied
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and know. It's something about having the confidence that at
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: any point in time we can find like a common
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: space to converse. Do you always find do you always
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: feel confident when you're playing with someone like that you
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: can find it? You ever feel nervous, Like this guy's
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: talk talking about something I can't really of course we
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: don't we all. I mean hopefully that's how you know
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: you're expanding and having new tastes and new experiences. You know.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: It's not always feel equipped like I'm gonna come in
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and slay. I don't mean that, but are there times
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: you're playing with someone I'm gonna use Wayne Shorter and
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you just feel like, man, I'm just disappointing here. I'm
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: not contributing. No, Well, listening is contributing. I mean, that's
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: so much of the gift of somebody who's so full,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: like a Wayne Shorter, just hanging out with him at
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the house. I mean just just listening is becomes dialogue,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you know, and becomes dynamic, um, because we we need
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to be heard too, you know. For all that poetry
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and wisdom and philosophy, philosophical playmaking that one can do,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: it's not fun when you're just by yourself in the house, right.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I think he's really gonna and a musing himself. But
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: um yeah, that's that's valuable. That's what I mean by
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: being the moving dance floor. It is. It's valuable. It's valuable. Um.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So a very different artist did you like and I'd
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: like to know more about her influence is Joni Mitchell. Oh, Now,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell is interesting to me because she has she
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: seems to have two audiences. Everybody likes everybody knows Big
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yellow Taxi and both sides now and people love her
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and revere for being part of a generation. But jazz
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: people really like her. What is it you're hearing in her?
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: What inspires you? I mean, jazz people like creative seeking music.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: You know, in general, all the jazz people that I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: know don't just listen to jazz music. They we they
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: listen to move that seems to be reching and finding
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: new combinations of the sounds that we're all working with
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: out here essentially, So what is it about her music
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: that what are you hearing there? I think if I
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: actually try to articulate it, it's going to be a lie.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Because beyond the obvious that points that we all are
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: drawn to, like the poetic imagery and the unexpected way
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: that she illuminates a scene and brings us into a
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: place in a space, and an emotional understanding of a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: person or a relationship, there's just some there's something magical
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and magnetic which doesn't tell you anything, but I the
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: way where I feel the draw. I can't honestly articulate. Um.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I think part of it is the attraction to somebody
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: showing possibility that's so far beyond anything that's been revealed
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: in that genre or mode of playing before, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: as a quote unquote folk musician or as a poetter,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: as a lyricist. It's like, you know, watching I can't
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: explain it. I should say, when I even said her name,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you sort of, yeah, put your hand up to your
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: heart like you're slightly stricken. And that's the that's the
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that's the Yeah, that's the mystery, you know, that's the mystery.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You can hear strands of the sort of thing she
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: does in I think particularly your the Emily album. Okay, cool,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that's when I discover her music. Was that right? Okay?
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Have you ever met her? Yeah? For sure. I jammed
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: at her house a few times, Okay this year last year.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Telling that story now, well, I I say, I very
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: surreal experience. Actually back up, tell us that story. How
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: you how you ended up there? Who was there? Well,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the first time that I went to her house, I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: went to her house because um we okay, I had
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to back up a step further. Last year, I moved
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: to la for seven months to be near Wayne and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to be on the ground moving forward the development this opera,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: because I felt like it had gotten stagnant somehow, you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: just the logistics of work, shopping in and getting it
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: off of the page and out of the speculative into
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the real, and I thought I need to just go there.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: You know, Wayne was having some really intense health issues,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and I wanted him to feel like this thing is
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: really happening, like we're doing this, we're doing this. So
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that turned into some very inventive approaches to making workshops happen,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Orchestral workshops happened, scene workshops happen. At a time when
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he couldn't physically write, he was suffering from a metabolic tremor,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and so we had to figure out a way to
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: get what he had written up into an orchestra. And
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I thought that the most invigorating thing for him would
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: be to actually feel coming back at him what he
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: had written, so that it would feel like an opera
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: is really happening here. So we're doing those every week,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: every two weeks, and at some point it came up, well, Gosh,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Joni heard that they're doing Joni Mitchell heard that you're
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: doing this and wish there that she could see it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard for her to leave the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: house with blah blah blah. And I don't know whose
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: idea it was. I feel like it was her assistance.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: So why don't we have the rehearsal at at Jonie's house?
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: So we did. We took us role in the opera,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and I mean she wanted to hear it when was
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: working on and thought it was cool. So she opened
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: her home to us. So we brought a piano player
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and about five singers and a small little orchestra, probably
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: eight players, and we crammed into her music room and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: she sat next to Wayne and I sat next to Wayne,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and Frank Gary, who's working on the set, who will
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: be making the sets, also came over. And it was
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: it was just a surreal moment in time that I
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: actually forgot about until you just said it, because it
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: was so surreal. It didn't seem like a part of
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: this plane, you know, because those I would say, those
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: are two of my favorite creators of all time, you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot can be said about the moment. Partially,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: it was surreal because I was so um dissatisfied with
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: the libretto at that particular moment, I was just cringing
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that like the master of words was there hearing my
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: like unfinished words. It's so ridiculous, Um, but yeah, I was.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I was biting my nails. You know for sure. The
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: whole time was that the first time you'd met her? No,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I met a few times before, but I didn't stick,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, because I was just drooling and you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: so this time not forming sentence. I was still dreaming,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: drooling and forming sentences. But she said she liked my
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: my life force suit and that as life force it does,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and that really looked at my spirits. Yeah, that did
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: you design that? Of course? Yeah. I wanted to, um,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: stay in touch with the Yeah, the focal point of
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: my work. I'm seeking ways to translate the Pope. I'm
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: seeking ways to bring us into resonance with our unique
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and abundant life force energy. And I also wanted a
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: break from worrying about what to wear at events or
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: just in the street or anywhere. And I knew that
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: it was going to be a year of hard work,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: so I made a work suit for myself. I just
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: said so that's all you wear. Yeah, that's all I wear.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: How many of those do you have? Eleven twelve? You're
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: like a superhero. You just get in the constant every day.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: That's the that's the goal. That's the goal. Be a superhero. Yeah. Yeah,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: my version of it be a super me. You know. Um,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: so what did you? I'm interested? What did Jone? I've
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: never met Johnny Mitchell? Oh you will, I would love to. Yeah,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: we're both Canadian after all. Uh huh? Facts? What did
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: she say to you when when she heard what you
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: were doing? Mom? I don't remember. She said all kinds
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: of things. It was it was out of body. It
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: was out of body. But later I did play some
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: jam sessions that I got to play bass for her,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and I got to play an arrangement for her of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the Wolf that lives in Lindsay and she dug that,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: so did she? Was she singing when you were playing? No,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I just perform. Yeah, when I played for her when
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: she was sinking. I mean it's like living room, like
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: a session like this. You know, she invites over musicians
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and we play the song she wants to sing, and
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: people play songs that she wants to hear. Or songs
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that they are working on. Like, so what you talked
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: about playing with with her? Be Hancock, What what's it
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: like playing with Joni Mitchell. Well, it's the deepest listening
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: you've ever done in your life. She's the deepest listening
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: ever because it's not about like, oh, I'm gonna play
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: with Jonie. I. I'm listening for what she's doing in
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: that moment and where her voice is going, and I
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: want to offer the the tones, the rhythms that make
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: it feel good for her to sing at that moment.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: You know, how did it go? It was perfect? It's perfect.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: She sang lever Man and a couple of other tunes,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: had the old song lever Man. Yeah, okay, yeah, she
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: loves you know, she loves classics standing. She had trouble
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: for a long time finding bass player. She always sad
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: bass players didn't understand her music. M because you did,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but hm, that's interesting.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It did okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll be back with
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the more Bruce's conversation with Esperanza Spalding after a quick
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: break back, but before we hear the rest of Bruce's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: interview with Esperanza Let's listen to a track offer album,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Emily's Devolution, which we'll talk a bit more about in
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: a second. First, here's the song change Us. You said
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you weren't that you weren't the prodigy, and you weren't
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: even now you describe yourself as not you don't feel
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: like you're fully a part of the kind of jazz
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: world you're not. But it's it's. Um, I was just
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: gonna say, you went to Berkeley, which is like the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: m I T of jazz. Oh god, it's not bless
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: it's heart. It's it's an incredible convening space for anybody
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: passionate about pursuing a career music. It is it truly, truly, truly,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: truly is. But yeah, it's it's like those terms that
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: nomenclates or of what the music is. I think that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the term refers to a very specific kind of devotion.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: So what I'm saying, I'm not a quote unquot jazz musician.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: It's just out of respect for for that modality of devotion.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I'm devoted to making and to creating, and that's that's
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: its own thing. It's just it's okay with me that
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I'm that I'm not, you know, an emissary of that
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: devotional practice. And and I think it's something also about
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: wanting to get out from under the signifier of being
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a jazz musician, because I feel like in some ways
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I use that or it was used to promote me
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: as a creator. And now, out of respect for what
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the devotional practice is, I want to I want to
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: make sure that it were clear about what's what you know? Okay,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: But because you, I mean, you do a lot of
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: different kinds of music. I mean re listening to Emily,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: which was your album before this one, I think, well,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the album before this one you can't get because it
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: was about that. Yeah, but Emily was like a really
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: that was a really heavy I wish our co host
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Rick Rubin was here because he's an old heavy metal guy.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: He would like guitar solos. But what were you listening
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: to when you did that album? Damn? I was listening
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: to Hm I a lot of David Bowie, a lot
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: of Jimi Hendrix. Um Cream, not a lot of cream,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: but listening to Cream a little bit. I had seen
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that documentary about Ginger Baker Um and you worked with
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Tony Visconti, who produced a lot of Bowie, a lot
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: of t Rex, Yeah, got a lot of that good
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: vibe in it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like sonically the world
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that Emily needed to do. What she came to do
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: had those elements that you described. It was loud, and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it generated movement, and it was about a power trio
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: and it was about an expression of power and breaking
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: out of whatever had been practiced and whatever had become familiar,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: whatever had become fixed identity. So that's what Emily needed
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: to burst into existence. And Emily was a real character,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: did you It's the lava of myself. It was the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: metal character of me. It was also maybe more than
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: your other work about the songs themselves. You've written a
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: lot of songs, but we tend to think of jazz
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: as kind of a flow, true, and this was more
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: like a song like change us. Oh my gosh, that's right.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: There's no there's no reason that wouldn't be a top
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: forty hit. I know that's Did you want it to
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: be a top forty hit? I mean I didn't. I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: didn't want it to not be a top forty hit.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: But um, that hasn't hmm, I mean damn. I asked
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Emily what she wanted to do, and those are the
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: songs that came out. And I didn't ask too many questions,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't a lot of well what does
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: what does it? What should the influences be in this?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Like what do we want to happen with this song?
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: It was just like, here's the instruction manual from Emily,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: let's build it and see what we get and we'll
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: morph it from there. You like the instruction manuals. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: do like the instruction manuals. I trust that because you
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: also did an album where you said, he was on
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Facebook Live, We're going to do it in seventy seven hours, yeah,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and you did the whole thing yeah, and everybody could watch. Well,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: that offering performance was the performance of the act of creation.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: So how do you make an album of creation? They
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: make an album of the creation process. That was the
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: way that we figured out that we could capture or
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: share my favorite part of making things, which is that
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: moment where you get the hit, you think of the thing,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: and then you forge it. That process of forging it
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: into the thing was the focal point of that project
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: as an act of improvisation. Actually, it's like a I
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: quote weighing a lot. One of my favorite quotes as
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: he says, composition is improvisation slowed down, and improvisation is
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: composition sped up. And that's what that project was. Have
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you gone back to watch that after you've done? Thank you? No? No, No,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I haven't. Why not, Well, it's it already happened, you know,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: it's like it already. It was a it was a
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: thing that was all in a moment. It's like a
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: kiss or a or a dance on a bridge that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: you didn't expect with a stranger. It happened, and the
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: magic of it was that it was happening in real time,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: and then it wasn't going to happen again, and that
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: everybody with us was with us in that moment, at
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: that particular spot on the continuum of eternity. So yeah,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't have any need to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: go back and look at it. What I compared to
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: when I was watching clips of it was let it be,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: which is that's what the Beatles tried to do. They
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: tried to show people how they were making an album.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Oh cool. That's why I'm wondering if you'd sort of
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: learned something about how you made music if you did
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: that well. Part of the I guess impetus for opening
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: up that process was to share the the ugly moments
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: and the scary moments, and the risk and the yeah,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the imperfections that go into making anything beautiful. So to
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: let it be seen that most of the process of
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: making the song was working with something that didn't really work,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: but you can hear how a seed of that then
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: led to what it became. And I felt like that
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: was something worth sharing in a moment where so much
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of what we interface with is polished and complete and
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: kind of seems like it just like both dropped down
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: glistening from the heavens. I was excited to share who
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I actually am, who we all actually are as creators,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: that that's most of who we are. The majority of
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: what makes us performers and artists and creators is that process.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: The finished thing is only like the last one hundredth
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: of the whole being, you know, But most artists they
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: want to protected other nine nine. They don't want that
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: out because that's the ugly part. So why do you
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: want that out? I like that part. I wanted to
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: celebrate that part, and you know, that's my element also
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the same way that performers get on stage and show
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: their best stuff. They show like the best that they
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: have to give to me. Me creating is my best stuff.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to share that as the performance,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: you know, which is kind of a jazz idea. I mean,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: probably more than more than pop. When did the singing
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: start for you? I'm I'm you know, I was just thinking.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, is that really matter? I mean, probably
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: eight or nine or ten. I feel like maybe we
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: could talk about I don't know what's what's brewing now.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I mean sinking started when I was out in the world,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: probably fifteen. And I feel like this particular moment in
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: my life as a creator, I'm less interested in, like
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: the origin, and I'm more interested in now as an
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: origin point, you know. Okay, well let me reframe it.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in I'm interested in what's happened because I
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: went back and read some early reviews and they'd say, oh,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: her slender voice as she sings along, And then you
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: listen to these albums and you're like, no, that's like
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a powerhouse. Okay, I don't really think about my voice.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I have to confess it's um, I really I practice,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: you know. I try to sing to build. I studied
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: to sit to build capacity and different timbres and all that.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: But do you sing to compose? I do sing to compose.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: So you're working on this opera, Oh, yes, thank you,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: segu Are you singing those parts? Are you? I will
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: sing in some capacity in this operation? No, I don't
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: mean in the final I don't mean in the final product.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I mean when you're working on it. Are you? Are
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: you singing in your head? Are you singing out loud?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes this process of igan opera is upside down inside
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: out from how operas are usually mate. Because it took
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: me so long to get the liberto written that Wayne
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: already wrote all the music. So now we're reckoning with
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: this incredible body of work, which is the music that
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: he wrote sort of in these three acts already, and
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: drawing story and language out from that. So in that case,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: sometimes I sing, but I'm actually trying to hear what
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: an operatic voice would do with some of these lines.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of speaking because some of the passages,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the music functions as the environment and they're having a
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: conversation recitative it's called, or sometimes just spoken through thinking
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: about or further unpackaging that invitation to write what you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: wish for the opera seeks to interrupt the repetition of
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the same story being played out that's played out in
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: this original myth. And I'm looking for a way that
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: as a writer, I can even interrupt the way that
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the endings are usually created. Um, what's the colemanth of Ifagenia?
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: So she's the one who gets her throat slit. Well,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: she's sacrificed so that the winds will return, and that
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Agamemnon and his brother and the fleet they've assembled to
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: go recapture Helen can sail across the ocean to troy Um.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: And so it's the story before the Trojan horse story
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: that we all know. Um. And by this process of
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: making the opera has unlocked a question about who gets
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: to tell the story, even me as a as a
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: woman in the twenty first century, and it's a time
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: when voices that have often been in the background now
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: get to come up and and direct new narratives, new
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: speculative narratives. We get to bring to the to the
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: public arena, our stories that have been silenced for so long,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: even in the space I'm asking the question, how do
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: we how do I how do we? How do I
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: break the cycle of the tyranny of the individual voice
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of the storyteller? And I wonder what becomes possible in
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: the telling of this story when figures, people, characters who
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: are often scripted into storytelling opera singers or musicians or actors.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: What becomes possible when their voice is activated in the
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: actual design of the story, in the telling of the story.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: That is really really challenging to do. It's beyond my
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: capacity right now, but that's that's what we're reaching for.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Who's telling the story now? Well, I am I mean
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and Euripides told it, and it's it's part of the odyssey,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: and it was surely a myth that had been passed
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: on for generations before it got written down. But I am,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I am really curious right now what happens when the
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: ending isn't prescribed and instead of barreling towards what we've
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: been told must happen, we say, no, what happens if
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: we leave space for an unknown ending to emerge from us?
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I guess co creating in real time so that the
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: sort that is the jazz Ethos isn't it. We're going
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: to substitute chords, We're going to change it well, and
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: all of those are just methods for approaching life in
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: real time and improvising in response to what's actually happening.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: You know. It's not about like, oh, I'm going to
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: change the chord because I'm a jazz musician. It's about
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: while I have I have access to enough material that
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I can respond to what's actually happening from a large
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: batch of possibility. I'm not I'm not fixed by what
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I've practiced. I'm not fixed by what I've learned is
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: supposed to happen next. Oh that's it. Yeah, I'm not.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I am not limited to what I've learned is supposed
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: to happen next. That's the key to how how I
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: want to break open the ending of this opera. Yes, right,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we're talking about this. That seems like a
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: perfect place to stop. Yeah, yeah, amazing. All right, Well,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thanks es Bronze Spaulding for taking
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Tom away from cracking the story structure of our upcoming
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: opera to talk with Bruce. You can hear all of
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: our favorite Es Bronze is Spaulding songs by checking out
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: the playlist for this episode at broken record podcast dot com.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is producing help from Jason Gambrel, Mia Lobelle,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: and Leah Rose for pushing industries our theme music spect
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.