Latest / Hook,Line,&SinkHer / Season 1 Episode 7 Keeping the Boat Steady: Parenting with ADHD

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Season 1 Episode 7 Keeping the Boat Steady: Parenting with ADHD · Hook,Line,&SinkHer

• Jayson St.Croix: Welcome back to Hook, Line, & SinkHer Her, the podcast where we cast out big questions, real and honest conversations, and occasionally get distracted by whatever shiny object just floated by. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: I'm Jayson, and joining me, as always, is Dr. Amy St. Croix. How are you doing today? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Good morning. Good, I've already had a lot of shiny objects fly by this morning. Jayson St.Croix: You got your customary Stewart's coffee ready to record? You think w one one of Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I so do. I so do. Yes. Jayson St.Croix: these days Stewart's might reach out and sponsor us. Who knows? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: You know what? For the fact that we go there every single morning, every single day that they're open, they should. Jayson St.Croix: You see how easy it is for me to distract her with a shiny object? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha ha. Jayson St.Croix: Okay, last time we talked about how ADHD shows up in the relationships closest to us. Today we're staying close to home and talking about parenting. And there are really two versions of this conversation. There's the parent who has ADHD trying to run a household while their own brain has 17 tabs open. And there's the parent raising a child with ADHD trying to figure out how to support a kid whose brain works differently than the parenting books assumed. And sometimes it's both at the same time: a parent and a child both in the same boat, both wondering who's supposed to be steering the boat. So So, today we're talking about keeping that boat steady, not perfect, just steady and afloat. So, Dr. St. Croix. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: What about the poor son of a gun who has a kid with ADHD and a spouse with ADHD and they're trying to manage both? Jayson St.Croix: Well, luckily for you, that's not you because I'm not going to be accused of being an imposter again. Remember, I do not have ADHD. So, Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: You do not Jayson St.Croix: Dr. St.Croix let's start with the families that you work with. When parents come to you, what does the parenting with ADHD conversation usually look like? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, I have to be honest, parents don't typically come to me looking for support in parenting. Even though that may be where we end up heading, or you know, kind of how we get in spaces that we need to be. Typically it's because they're seeing their child struggle at school. And it doesn't mean that it has to be academics, it could be behavioral, it could be academics. And then once you know they're established clients and we're starting to have those conversations, then that's kind of where the parenting piece comes in because I'll ask questions like, you know, do we see this behavior at home? Can you share with me what transitions look like at home versus what they look like at school? And kind of that's how we get at it, or I should say that's kind of how it bubbles up the parenting piece. Is is just within what moms and dads and families should do based off the school challenges. So for us, typically it starts with school, and then kind of all those other pieces flow together, and and moms and dads see how it's all interconnected connected and we have to look at these kids holistically right not within different space spaces within their own space if that makes sense. Jayson St.Croix: Speaking of school, a question that I have for you is what do parents tend to blame themselves for that they shouldn't when it comes to their child with ADHD? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, I I I I don't know that I can answer that question. Because I know that s in the early beginning parts of parenting our child our children, but specifically the one that's been the most challenging with ADHD, I blamed myself because I gave this to her, right? So there was some personal guilt about that. Of course now I don't feel that guilt at all. I'm like, girl, we're gonna take this, it's gonna be a superpower, like we're gonna make it work. Like we are superheroes, right? But that is only came from a couple of things. My knowledge of ADHD and neurodivergent behaviors and challenges. I think my expertise in this world, but I really honestly think that the grace came after she graduated high school. When you are in the thick of it and you are in the trenches every day in just trying to get them up to go to school, right? That in itself is just purely exhausting. You you don't give yourself that grace. You don't give your child that grace. And I I'm not, I know you know this. A big regretter. Everything happens for a reason. How many times have I ever said that to you? No less than one million, right? But at the same time, if I could go back in time, I I really honestly think the one thing I would do differently is parent our daughter differently. We just did not give her grace as a young child. We just didn't. They were our rules, she was gonna follow. And that's the way that it was gonna be, and we were not flexible in the sense of our expectations of her until we started to really get some good information and support, and then of course, as she aged, my space in this world changed, right? So yeah, I don't know that I can really answer that question because I really think that it's where the parent is coming from, where their background is from. And kind of, you know, how much knowledge they have on this subject or experience that they have either at a personal or professional level. I think that's a that's a question that I really think is individual. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I think he did a great job answering the question. And I don't want to sit here and proclaim that we are hypocrites, do this when we do this, but we really learn to keep the boat afloat, especially with our number two. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: We learned some hard ways how not to do things. And I keep I Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: absolutely. Jayson St.Croix: keep going back to that quote by Maya Angelou, until you know better, you do better, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: So we did a lot of the things that we talk about now that we shouldn't do with kids with ADHD as parents ourselves because we didn't know better we didn't know better at the time. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. I have to give a shout out to Dr. Timothy Dempsey. He currently now is at the Kelberman Center where we l w in the area where we live. But he was not at the time that our daughter was young and she was being tested. And I do recall that I was really diligent about her not being tested and diagnosed simply by rating scales. So for those that don't know what that means, kind of like within our world. We have two rating scales that we utilize regularly the Connors and the Vanderbilt. And those are really based on observations. And I've talked about this in the past. Sometimes girls can be overlooked by those rating scales because the behaviors are intrinsic and the challenges are intrinsic versus extrinsic, right? So I was really adamant, even at that time, that she was not going to be diagnosed by a rating scale. Because you know, you know this as going through it with me, but she was put on medicine at a really young age, and I was very, very concerned that there was going to be a misdiagnosis, and I did not want her on those medications if she truly did not have ADHD. So we did take her to a specialist, yeah, to be Jayson St.Croix: You look at. Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: tested, so evaluated, so that we could know for sure and kind of where she was at and she had a really interesting diagnosis. She's ADHD with low arousal. But Dr. Timothy Dempsey diagnosed her, right? And do you remember what he said to us? Jayson St.Croix: I was thinking it I'm gonna bring that up. I got I got that stored ready to go. Why don't you tell the listeners? I'm sure they figured it out by now, but won't you tell the listeners his very first sentence after he got done evaluating her when he called us into the room? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so it's for moms and dads haven't done this before or listeners Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: who aren't aware, it's a multi step process, right, when a child's being evaluated or anybody's being evaluated. So what usually happens is, you know, they'll do like an intake with the parents, depending on the age of the child, they might do an intake with with the child as well. Then you go in for multiple sessions of an evaluation. And then after that, she was in what, third grade at the time, I think. So after that, we went in in a different meeting, a different day, a different session, right? And she was not with us at that time. And it was essentially to go over the evaluation, anything that he had found, and you know, kind of what our steps were moving forward and recommendations, right? We went into that office together, just the two of us, and we sat down and we introduced ourselves and he said to us, I just have one question. How are you two still married? Jayson St.Croix: Yep, I'll never forget that. And Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: This is awesome. Jayson St.Croix: But that was that's also an attribute for Dr. Dempsey and the kind of doctor he was. He was able to bring some levity to the situation. And because we were struggling trying to get her Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: to be successful, just Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: I don't want to say functioning, because she does function very well, but trying to get Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Now. Jayson St.Croix: her to be successful, right, in the appropriate settings. But Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: he did bring some levity in he he was a great help for us. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. And and he's still, you know, anytime I have an opportunity to refer a client to him, I always do. He's just in a different capacity now than he was before. It's his position at the Kelberman Center, which is which is just a wonderful organization facility anyway. So it's always an honor to work with, you know, those kinds of in those spaces. But I do miss him as as her provider. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, yeah, he definitely left a mark on us, that's for sure, in a good way. Once again, you do not have a copy of the questions ahead of time. You totally do this off the cuff. But you somehow seemingly tend to lead me right to my next one. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha ha. Jayson St.Croix: It's almost like we're in sympatico or something, but anyway, Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: how common is it for a parent to realize their own ADHD while getting their child evaluated? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So this is a really interesting question because I think it's significant and non-significant all at the same time. So I remember as a principal. So many times I would you know kind of help facilitate difficult or challenging parent-teacher conferences. And I'll always I always remember, you know, parents being like, well, of course he can't do math. I couldn't do math. Like it was related to them, right? Well, of course my child's not going be able to do something that I can't do. So with the ADHD, you would think that parents would kind of do that, right? Like in some sometimes they do. Sometimes I'm in a setting where they're like, yeah, I don't focus and he doesn't focus. Or, you know, I can't sit still and they don't sit still. But at the end of the day, we somehow lose the connection because so often where we're identifying ourselves, or I see parents identifying themselves, you know, within the the spaces of not being able to focus or not being able to sit still. But then they'll they'll come and they're looking for solution support, recommendations on how to keep their child engaged. So at the same time, they're able to identify that their student or their child has similar behaviors to them, but yet they're still seeking support in that. So it's really interesting that it is, you know, parents are able to see a connection and then they're not able to see a connection. Jayson St.Croix: Right. So we had someone reach out to us on social media this week and they said thank you for our conversations that we've been having because for a while they felt like they were alone, but they can hear themselves in the conversations that we are having, which I thought yeah, yeah, I thought that was awesome. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: So we those parents are not alone, which leads me to my next one for you, because I think a lot of listeners are gonna recognize themselves in our conversations, right? But some yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I hope so. Like that that's what I want, right? Jayson St.Croix: Right. But sometimes parents just because of their parents, they carry some guilt and ADHD tends to lead to a few extra layers of that. Would you agree? So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It can. Yeah, I mean it can. Jayson St.Croix: so with that in mind, what would you want a parent to hear first before any strategies or tips? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: This one's super easy for me. I want moms and dads to know. That their kids' evaluations do not supersede their knowledge of their kids. Like that's the really big piece, is sometimes, especially at the CPSE level, I will sit in meetings and I will hear people say the some of the most ridiculous things. And I know you know this because it gets me fired up, and I can actually see myself kind of bubbling at the moment. But I hear people say things like, They don't qualify, they didn't receive a 77 score on their cognitive. What that's ludicrous to me. We don't have a cutoff where you know a 76 you don't qualify, and a 77 you do qualify. Or you know, you're struggling. I'm making this up, but you're struggling 80% of the time, but not 81% of the time, right. the other one that I hear a lot is the IQ. Well, you know, their IQ is an 80. Okay. We we know this, and this is not a bragging moment for me at all. We know that our one child has an IQ that sits in the superior genius range, correct? And that struggle for her is ridiculous every single day. So I think that that's one thing that I really want to really want to share with moms and dads is an evaluation should never supersede what you know about. your child. And I really think that parents need to know that should should they have an idea of, you know, a child's diagnosis? Absolutely. You know, I'm all about knowledge, you know that. I'll talk about ADHD forever to make someone else more knowledgeable than what they might have about it. I just love talking about it and really like sharing the information that I know. But at the end of the day, I want moms and dads to know that they don't need to know every single law. They don't. There's professionals for that, right? They need to know that their perspective matters, and it's super important when you're sitting at the CPSE or the CSE table. And moms and dads may not feel that way, but at the end of the day, that is kind of the first thing that I really want moms and dads to know is that their perspective is more important than any evaluation. And when when we're sitting at the table, right? When we're sitting at the CSE CPSE table. And they don't need to know all the laws. They don't need to know all the regulations and the guidance and the Supreme Court cases. There's professionals for that. What they do need to know is that their perspective matters for their child, and what they have to say and what they have to offer is ridiculously important to their child's success. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I remember us struggling with that with our child who had that IQ and they were literally trying to stifle her to fit her inside that standardized box so she could pass a standardized test and be standard and it was it was a nightmare. Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It it was not happening. Do you remember? Do you remember? So we would always advocate for her we advocated for her to be an advocate of herself, if that makes sense. And that Jayson St.Croix: Well, I know where you're going with us. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Really difficult because she doesn't have a filter. That just is what it is. It's part of the diagnosis for her. It's part of that impulse control where she just says it before Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: she thinks about it. And then like literally two seconds after it's out you can see her facial expression go, maybe that shouldn't have come out. That might have Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that might have needed to stay up here. But so we were really pushing her to go to her 504 meetings, right? Do you remember what was she in? Like maybe ninth or tenth grade I think. And Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I think she was in ninth or tenth grade and I was trying to get underneath the table because I knew it was coming and you were sitting there like a proud mama bear. So go ahead, keep going. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And we were all on Zoom, do you remember? And Jayson St.Croix: Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: we you and I were in different spaces on Zoom. We were not together. I I think I probably because it was I was probably like in my office or something like that. I don't I don't remember. But we were definitely in different spaces. And she was at school with her teacher. Do you remember that? The teacher that was yeah, she was with Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. By herself. Yeah, without either without either one of us. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No, we weren't in the room with her. And We had requested that the principal be there because they really hadn't been supporting her really well. And we we wanted him there. And like we kind of let her go and we were like, you know, honey, you have to advocate for yourself and you have to share because we're not in your brain. Like what you have to say is super important because you're the one that's being challenged every day. Like I'm being challenged in a different way, right? But I'll never forget. Somebody asked a question, and the principal started to describe how the classroom was essentially taught, right? Like how the expectations were within that classroom. And she interrupts him and she says to him, Excuse me, but it's not my responsibility to learn the way your teachers teach. They can teach the way that I learn. And everybody just sat there staring. staring at her, nobody said a word. It was like dead silent. And what what was it? It was maybe like two minutes later, three minutes later, the principal excused himself for another meeting. Do you remember Jayson St.Croix: Yep, he didn't want to hear that. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that? Jayson St.Croix: But that was par for the course for him anyway. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I was dying. I was just dying. So part of me believes that's her impulsivity, right? Of of just saying what she thinks. But I do think that we have to take some ownership in that because first of all, she probably heard it from me somewhere, let's be honest. The other part of that is is we've really encouraged her to advocate for what she needs to be successful in this world. So I do think we do have to take a little ownership in that as well. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And to stay with to stay with the boat analogy about that principal and not to call him out or give out his name or anything. No. But navigating a boat in Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: He he's not around here anymore anyway, so it's okay. Jayson St.Croix: a harbor with no waves is pretty easy and anybody can do it. As soon as you get that boat out in the waters where there's waves and so there's some chop, that's where you really see it what you're made of, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah, and she's a hurricane. Jayson St.Croix: yeah, that she is. Let's get practical. Mornings, homework time, bedtime, those daily transitions seem to be where everything runs smoothly or falls apart. What actually helps a family with ADHD in the mix keep those routines from turning into a daily battle? Because we had our battles. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: They yeah, yeah. I I really honestly my recommendation to this would would really be twofold. First of all, you have to remember if routine I I think this is where I failed. And and you're okay, I'm perfectly fine with you calling me out if that's accurate, but I I think you talk about guilt, right? Parent guilt. I think this is where I failed our kids. Routine is so important, right, with neurodivergent kiddos. Routine and consistency, routine and consistency. And we even kind of we were definitely jeered as young parents, even by our own family members, because we kept our kids on such a strict schedule, right? Even, I mean, I'm talking when they were little, they were on a strict schedule. They took naps, they ate, they played, everything was completely orchestrated. And we would leave events if it was their nap time. They didn't nap if in areas that were not familiar to them, right? Like we kept them in that that routine. But I think that as they aged, I'm thinking like elementary school in my head, their routines and consistency that I was holding them to were to meet my needs and not theirs. So I think about things that you know, like I absolutely needed their lunches made, their clothes chosen, and put out in the morning. And they could not change their outfits. That was against all the routines. Now it it was a little bit easier in the early days because our kids attended a private school, right? So outfits weren't quite a problem because everybody was in a uniform. But at the same time, like I think about like their dress down days. That all had to be laid out. And that didn't always work for them, especially our daughter, because she had those sensory needs, right? So she might go to bed and wanted to wear something pretty, a dress and a skirt that morning. But when she woke up she was feeling something totally different. She wanted to be in something that was soft or, you know, cuddly or you know, in that manner. And I would not let her change. And I feel like routine is so important, but we have to realize that it's only important if it works for the child that you're trying to build the success for. And I I failed at that. I failed at that miserably. those transitions that they struggled in through those routines were about me and not about them. only after I went to school many, many mornings. Drenched in sweat, you know, holding my hair up like this in the car, trying to dry myself off, right? Did I start to be a little more flexible about those, which made their transitions easier? But you know, you ask about that parent guilt. I really think that that's probably where some of mine came in, was that I was so rigid within those routines that it wasn't working for the children I was trying to put them in place for. Jayson St.Croix: Gotcha. You came pretty close to answering my next question for you too. Like, why do routines at work for other families sometimes fall flat in ours? It it's just the personality of the kid, right? It it's just Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It is. Look so, you know, we always talk about our own two kids because that's what we know, right? Jayson St.Croix: Right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: If I looked at our son in the morning and I said to him, you may not change your outfit, this is not acceptable. get dressed, what would he have done? Okay, mama, Jayson St.Croix: Automatically go get dressed. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: right? If I said to our daughter, You cannot change your outfit, you need to get dressed, how would that have gone? Jayson St.Croix: Well, she's got a lot of her mother in her, so Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: but I'm talking like full meltdown. We Jayson St.Croix: No. yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: we would have been, and it's not behavioral. Like, I think that's the really big piece that that parents have to understand. These transitions that these particular children struggle with, they are not behavioral. They're they're not just choosing to be knuckleheads. That that's not it. It's it's about the processing, it's about the sensory, it's about all of those pieces put together that a kiddo may not physically be able to put on a pair of socks. It might just not happen for them. Matter of fact, so much could that be a concern. Do you remember we had in one of our children's 504 plans that us socks could not be part of their uniform? Because she couldn't put them on because of the feeling, the sensory piece behind it, right? She was super funny. She would say. it felt like someone was she was you know so descriptive felt like someone was hitting her pinky toe she was very specific about this with a hammer when she had socks on yeah Jayson St.Croix: Yep, I remember that. So how much structure is too much and how little is not enough? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, it one, I have to say it it it's individual for every kid, right? But if you don't have some type of structure, there there's going to be disarray. What you can't I I always joke and say free range chickens, right? I always joke about that. You can't because it's such a balance. You have to know that a child may not want structure, but they need it. So we can't it, you know, we can we sit and we say these strategies: listen to your child. Well, you know, what works best for them. Sometimes they don't know what's gonna work best for them, and that's where the parenting piece comes in, where we have to find that balance of giving them flexibility but requiring routine at the same time. Jayson St.Croix: So how do you build a routine that a child helps create instead of one that's handed to them? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's a great question. Jayson St.Croix: I'm full of them today. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's a great question. I just built a a morning routine for a family. They're having difficulty with their child going to school. It is not behavioral in any way. And there's a lot of things that are going on, but it is not behavioral. And I literally just built this entire routine with the transitions built in, with the positive reinforcement, and you really just start off small. That's how you start to build the routine. You can't say, you know, we're gonna do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and and you build it all the way through from you know the time they wake up up till the time they go to bed. Will it eventually get to that space? Absolutely. We can't do it all at once. It's just too much. You gotta start in little bits and increments. But yeah, we just built that for one of our families. It is. It's still in the conference room. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I'm looking at this file. It's I believe it's sitting right here next to me right now, isn't it? Yeah, that's pretty it that's pretty impressive. All right. one thing I hear a lot is that what looks like defiance is sometimes just a brain that can't make the jump from one thing to the next. How can schools and educators help tell the difference? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's a good one. That's a good one. So I obviously doing, you know, what I do as an ed consultant, not within the legal analyst piece, but with the actual consultant, I get called a lot when kids have been suspended from school or there's some type of behaviors that are going on. And so often, you know, I I don't want to say a hundred percent of the time because nothing's a hundred percent right, except for the fact that I'm gonna drink a cup of coffee every single day. Jayson St.Croix: From Stewart's. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Probably Probably. But a good percentage of the time it's really because that transition is just not happening for them. And they either need a little bit more time for the transition to occur or a different environment for the transition to occur. And let me give you an example, and we can talk about this both as educators, but also as parents. So often, when we have kiddos with ADHD if you call them out or you identify a weakness in front of others, you can end up with a disaster on your hands. It's about that embarrassment piece for them. And not really knowing how to socially react to that and when they're when they're in a group, right? So if a child is called out, it doesn't matter the setting if we're at school or we're at home, and there's other people around, those social challenges do not allow them to just accept that, transition and move on. And that's where we end up with those really disruptive behaviors. Behaviors that can then in turn lead to discipline referrals, suspensions from school, those kinds of things. But that scenario that happens both at home and at school. Especially like think about family functions, right? Where you know their cousins could potentially be there, you know, peers of a similar age, and you call them out on a behavior or something that they said. We've done that to our daughter a million times, right? She says something. We know it's not appropriate, we call her out on it, and and she can't readjust and transition with those social challenges, and bam, we now have some a discipline issue going on at the point at that point. Same concept in school: you call a kid out in front of a classroom, and guess what happens. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It's the same thing. but we talk about this. It's about building rapport. If Jayson St.Croix: Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: you have rapport with kids, you could our kids laugh about this, but it's not, it works so well. When I build a rapport with kids, they then they understand. When my eyebrow goes up, your behavior better go down. And that's all I have to do is give that look. Because we have that rapport that they know that's the signal. I'm not gonna disrespect you. We'll talk about it later. We don't need to talk about it in front of everybody else, but you better change the behavior right now. And I've always parented with that eyebrow. And I've always as a teacher, when I was a teacher, it's really funny that some of my past students are actually watching this podcast. So they're gonna be able to identify this because they've reached out and been like, you know, we're we watch this, our family watches it, we listen to it on the way to work, but they're gonna remember that eyebrow. But you gotta have the rapport first. If you don't, then you you can't. You you don't have that ability to just wait and discuss it later because that mutual respect just isn't there. Jayson St.Croix: Have you been sniffing around my tangent of the week? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I live with you, but no. Jayson St.Croix: All right. Parents of kids with ADHD often end up coordinating a whole crew. Teachers, school teams, pediatricians, sometimes other specialists. There's a lot of moving parts for any parent, whose own organizational skills are already stretched. Where do you see parents getting stuck when they're trying to get everyone on the same page? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so I really think You know, in the work that we do, this is kind of where it all stemmed from, right? Everybody's looking through a different lens. I remember the first episode when I introduced myself. I actually talked about that, right? Where my work sits right at the intersection of education, law, and medicine, all in the same space. And that's what's happening. All of the individuals that are supporting the child are looking at it through an individual Individual lens based on their specialty and not holistically. And that's really difficult for parents because parents then become a communication system. And it's difficult because, as I said to you in the beginning, moms and dads shouldn't have to know every law, every guideline, every Supreme Court case, all those things. Even in the medicine world, right? They shouldn't have to know different medications that can potentially support their child or know how the brain works, why executive functioning is a challenge for their child. So you have to rely on all these specialists, but at the same time, they're looking through a particular lens and they're not looking beyond the holistic child. And I'll give you a perfect example. I had a case this past week where the parents were sharing with me that the pediatrician had mentioned, wrote a letter. letter. That they identified a school, a local school near them that was for the deaf and blind. And they had written some type of correspondence to the school indicating that you know this particular patient that they see, this child, has some of the challenges Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that they address in this deaf and blind school, and the pediatrician had some knowledge of how successful that school was. So they simply Wrote a piece of correspondence indicating that the school should go and observe some of the strategies to bring back to support the kid. And the parents were sharing with me that the school district, the CPS, the CSC chair specifically, had said, that's my job, not hers. Tell her to go to her lane. And that's a problem. It's it's not a problem on the part of the school, it's not a problem on the part of the doctor, it's a problem on the part of the the child and the parent because we don't understand each other's worlds. When I was a director of special ed, I actually had a doctor who wrote me a script for an IEP. You can't get an IEP with a medical script. So it's understanding each other's worlds so that parents are not the communication system and that we can support the child holistically. And I want you to now ask me what what should a mom or a dad do? Right? Like you're Jayson St.Croix: Well, it it it it's interesting you say that because you got one teed up for me and I got one ready to go for you. Because going back to the myths and misconceptions about what you actually do, a glorified, you know, i'm using their quotes here, a glorified IEP explainer that any school district can do. Yeah, remember that one. What do Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yeah. My favorite. My favorite. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: you wish more parents knew about the supports that their child may be entitled to? Is that the question you were hoping I was coming with? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. No, it's not, but I'll answer that one too. I'll ans I I'll I'll answer them both. I just want I just wanted to Jayson St.Croix: I'm sure you w go ahead, I'm sure you will. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I just wanted to say so you know, the problem is every specialist along the way is looking at the child through an individual lens and not holistically. They're relying on the parent as the communication system. So what advice can I give to moms and dads? Because I can't change every system, right? Like, and there's only one of me or one of our firm, right? So even though we work in a lot of great spaces, you know, with a lot of great attorneys and great pediatricians, at the same time, we can't change the entire world. Right? So, what I want to say to moms and dads, three three things. I want to say first, what is each person going to do? You need to get that information. Write it down. Bring a notebook to whatever the session is. It doesn't matter if it's in a school, if it's in a psychiatrist's office, if it's a mental health provider, if it's an OTPT, speech, if it's your pediatrician, it just doesn't matter. If they're supporting your child, you need to bring a notebook. Ask the question, what is each you know, at as their ed consultant, what are you gonna do? Action plan. It's about action, right? So you know, write it down. The pediatrician is going to, you know, give me a Connors that I then need to give to the teacher and fill out myself and send back. I obviously just made that up. The second thing is, is how will we evaluate what what we did is working or not working? So in a let's just say a pediatrician puts a child on medication. How do we know it's working or not working? If we implement a new program in an IEP or a new accommodation in an IEP, let's evaluate it. How are we gonna do that? How do we know it's working or it's not working, right? So, first is action plan by that specialist or that you know provider. Secondly, is gonna be evaluation. How do we know whatever is in that action plan is working or not working? And then thirdly, when will we follow up on it? Don't just assume that the professional is going to call you after something has been completed. Schedule an appointment and you're going to come in in a timely fashion. That's just not the way that it works. So, first of all, create an action plan with a specialist or whom, you know, whatever team member for your child you're working with. Secondly, how are we going to evaluate that the action plan is working? And thirdly, when are we going to find follow-up. That's what I want to tell moms and dads. That's what they can do to help take those individual lenses and bring them together. Jayson St.Croix: Yep, and I got a tangent coming later on in the season because I've heard this, if not once, a thousand times from you, when we're measuring those goals and seeing if things work, the math, better math. Because how many times have you come Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yes. geez sweeps. Jayson St.Croix: across an IEP where the adults can't even produce the math that actually maths and is appropriate? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, when you're writing an IEP goal, you can't just be pulling these numbers out out of anywhere. You know, if you have a trial four out of five times and you want it to be sixty percent, do the math on that. It doesn't work. Math isn't mathing. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, and there's other examples. Okay, so let's bring this home. What do you wish more parents knew about the supports that their child may be entitled to? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so so this can just come across in a multitude of capacities. You say entitled to, and my brain automatically goes to IDEA, which is federal law, right? And and then of course part 200 regs here in New York, that's that's state law. But but it's more than that, right? it can just be as simplistic as you know, having your students aid attend an intramural sports event through their school. So let's say they're in fifth and sixth grade, they don't have modified sports yet. The school district has an intramural program, but you know, your child may be challenged to do that independently. They do get an aid through their typical school day. You know, moms and dads don't know that they can have that aid during the the intramural per period. that the school district is is offering that that extracurricular activity so it it's really about asking right like have the it just you don't have to have the knowledge of what they can get just be asking what they can get if that makes sense? Jayson St.Croix: Yes, it does. Thank you for finally answering my question. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Pleasure's all mine. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I'm sure. So let's bring this home. Beyond the routines and the meetings, what Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha. Jayson St.Croix: matters most for a child growing up with ADHD or growing up with a parent who has it? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Okay, so for me I would have to say, obviously, you know I'm so academically focused all the time, but when I answer this question, it has to be self-confidence. It has to be. Because if the child doesn't have confidence all those other challenges, regardless if it's social, regardless if it's academic, regardless if it's, you know, whatever it might be, behavioral, it doesn't matter. Without self-confidence, those other spaces are gonna really be difficult for for a child. Jayson St.Croix: And sometimes it almost comes across instead of building that self confidence, you're inst instilling shame in them Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. Well, you know I That I remember saying this when our daughter was really young, and it's interesting because I think about this a lot because I'm so on the fence about if I was wrong or if it was okay. Because but I used to say to her, like for example, when she couldn't put socks on, right? I used to say to her, you have to wear socks. It's it's you know negative 30 degrees out here in New York. You have to wear socks. this is Is a you problem that you need to fix for our world. And I remember saying that several times. This is a you problem, and you need to figure it out in our world. So part of me instills guilt in that I said to her, This is a you problem. She doesn't have a problem because she can't wear socks. Now I didn't see it like that in the beginning, but obviously now I do. As I've learned so much much about how the brain works. At the same time, I see it as critical analysis, right? Because as much as we do live outside the box and we should be able to do that, there are times and spaces when we have to step inside the box. There's still laws, there's still, you know, you can't go out and just commit a crime and say it's because I have ADHD and I'm impulsive, right? Like you can't do that. There's still rules and regulations within a box that that we have to abide by. But so I struggle with that piece of was that good parenting or was that not Jayson St.Croix: Is it Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: so good parenting? Because I did give her the skills to now critically think, how am I gonna do this in a space that I don't really have flexibility? But at the same time, did I shame her by saying sh it was her problem? I don't know about that. I I I I obviously I I'm I have a little guilt both both ways, but Yeah, it goes back to that self-confidence piece and you know under st it's such a balance and it's such a difficult balance. And you know, sometimes you're leaning this way and sometimes you're leaning that way, and that's okay. That's okay. Jayson St.Croix: Again, I don't have ADHD, you clearly do. And I think both of us just by the nature of our personalities, we both have a little bit of guilt because we could have done better raising both of our kids. especially knowing now what we didn't know then. So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, I yeah. I mean I think that obviously I started i it this is obviously super important to me, right? And I think I really started to learn more. in my administrative years. But it really wasn't until the doctorate in my dissertation and then that you know, obviously my advanced certification in autism has helped a ton. But it wasn't until those points when I could put all those systems together and understand the medical piece sitting behind the school piece, which is why we see these behaviors, which is why we see these successes, which is why we see these challenges. So yeah, I definitely didn't have the knowledge then. That I have now. But we're not doing this again. We're not gonna, we're not parenting again for a redo. Jayson St.Croix: Nope. Nope. I think that's the real takeaway here. Steady doesn't mean calm water every day. It means knowing how to ride the waves and knowing you don't have to row alone. There are plenty of us out there more than you probably realize. Would you agree? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. And it's it's about I I think the other part of this that's really important to mention is accountability, right? Like you can't just let a child it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's behavior, it doesn't matter if it's homework, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what it is. There's still accountability and expectations that have to be had. it's just the Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: way that we support those and the flexibility that we provide. It's not lowering the bar. It's not lowering our expectations. It's looking at things differently. Jayson St.Croix: You've mentioned that in previous episodes. Where that ADHD, they're they're not looking for the bar to be lowered. Right? They're just looking for a pathway forward to be successful. Yep. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Right. It's not it should never be an excuse. It should be an explanation. Jayson St.Croix: Yep. All right. You were sniffing around it earlier, so here it comes. Before we wrap things up, it's time once again for my tangent of the week. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha. Jayson St.Croix: Every episode we will share one of those moments that perfectly captures the wonderful, unpredictable nature of ADHD. So, Dr. St.Croix let's talk about this week, shall we? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No, it was not a good one. It was. We had a rough week this week, we did. No. Jayson St.Croix: You're right. It was a rough one at the firm, correct? Not be n not because anything went wrong, but because somebody feels the need to personally touch every case and treat it like it's the only one that we have here at the firm. True? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I I do, yeah, I do. Jayson St.Croix: And the part I would like to talk about is the end-of-day debrief. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha ha. Jayson St.Croix: I don't know if it's a debrief or if it's a soliloquy, but one of those things. A monologue. Most Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It's a monologue. Jayson St.Croix: of the week, the minute I open the truck door, it usually starts. This week I hadn't even got my bag in the backseat of the truck. And I'm shown a picture of a random kid on social media. Look at this! Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I didn't even know the kid. Jayson St.Croix: Look at this, look at this, followed by, I just don't get it. How can you be mean to these children? They are children. Find some patience and understand their needs. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Didn't even know the kid. Jayson St.Croix: I haven't even said a word yet, and I'm already being held responsible for a stranger on the internet on social media. Then you lift up what I can only describe as an 80-pound fall drink cup, and you take a sip of water that lasts for about two seconds because the next shiny object arrives, a phone call you got earlier in the day. And An organization from Texas called about a medically fragile child they needed support with, and you tell me you've been researching this genetic disorder so you can better understand the child's needs. I start to ask which disorder you're reading about, and your phone rings. I have no idea who it is, but I have a good guess when I hear a string of letters and numbers and the acronym IDEA. And then comes, why is money even a factor with a kid like this? Can you even be human if you can't relate? Quote. Right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Jayson St.Croix: You hang up without missing a beat, you're telling me about a friend whose son was just told a service had to come off of his IEP because there were no resources to pay for it, which even I know is illegal. I even I knew better. Meanwhile, I've still said nothing, not one word. I'm afraid Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha Jayson St.Croix: to even ask you what you want for dinner. And I knew I would I knew it wasn't gonna be chicken. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Not chicken. Jayson St.Croix: And then you tell me you have two meetings tonight. I need to figure this out for these kids. All you need to do is be kind. All you need to do is be patient. And you're not talking to me. You're talking about the situation with the two kids and that. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: stomping up the stairs at that point, I think. Jayson St.Croix: Yep. And and you're still mumbling and for the love of God, all you need to do is build rapport with these kids and families. Is it that hard? Not if you love kids and if you're in it for the kids. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's so true. Jayson St.Croix: At this point, I honestly can't tell if you're talking to me or to yourself, but it doesn't matter because you're already halfway up the stairs to the home office. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I was Jayson St.Croix: But here's the twist: the this tangent does have some worth, at least for me. Okay. We were short on substitutes last week where I worked, and I was asked if I'd cover a period of 15 to 1. I'm not a special education teacher, even though I've worked with special education kids for over 20 years, especially with CT teachers, and I've had some great relationships with those teachers and some great knowledge gained from them as well. But I have also been absorbing your tangents for years now, and some of it stuck. So I'd like to give you some kuddos on this tangent. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Thank you. Jayson St.Croix: I started with kindness with this class and building report. And in my true nature, I always tell you teaching's a lot about performing, not just about delivering content. And my card magic trick was a huge hit. And then I remembered how often you told Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: You did a magic trick with them. Jayson St.Croix: I certainly did. Kids love cards. And these are eighth graders, and they soaked it and ate it right up. I had them drinking whatever I wanted. Then I remembered how often you talk about flexibility and the importance of movement. So after we got some academics done, guess what we did the academics with? Cards. We use cards to practice our multiplication facts. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Okay. Jayson St.Croix: We took the class for a walk outside before the end of the period. That class. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Nice, nice. Jayson St.Croix: was the best part of my week, especially when our friend from the main office cornered you in Target to inform you that your husband has specifically been requested to sub again by some of the students from that class who stopped in the main office at the end of the day. So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: to tie this all together, I guess I would say this. And this is me speaking now, not you. If you don't enjoy being around children, maybe the education field isn't for you. It's not hard to be kind. It's not hard to remember that these are kids. We should exhibit some grace and some patience with them as they are learning, they are maturing, and their brains are developing. So tell us, honestly, how close was that to our reality? I believe it was Thursday night. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah. Like like you said, we had a rough week this week. And again, it's not because anything went wrong. Nothing went wrong at all. It's just I just I don't get it. I I and I know you know this about me. I'm so black and white. Like r rules are rules and laws are laws and yeah. I you know, I think you also obviously know this, but I left a school district because they refused to meet the needs of the development and the implementation of IEPs because of money. And I would not be part of that. I I left that district and and you know that. So because that's that's a law, right? There there's a law that says financial finances and staffing cannot be the deterrent to providing a a service for a child or a program for a child. So yeah, I I really th for me this week was tough because I am so black and white and I do live in the world of law and I just sometimes I just don't get it. But we are starting a new week and I'm invigorated. I'm ready to go. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, maybe we maybe we should have through that answer about the financial piece back and what the parents should know when it comes to their kids when they're at their but it fits now. We got it in there. Right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. There's also you know it th th those you know, we have I know that you had mentioned to me and and I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. I know that you mentioned to me that somebody had asked you a question and you had said, I'm taking notes on that, or I put that in my note app or something, because we have an episode coming up at the end of the season about questions and answers, right? So I think this is probably a great time, one, for families to reach out and be like, Hey, I got this question, because we are gonna do that episode, or least I think you are, from what you said to me. But the other part of that is is I would love to give you some, you know, maybe like my top three that that come in regularly because I think about like exactly what I just said to you in regards to finances and staffing, right? The other one that I think happens a lot too is moms and dads struggle with the importance of prior written notice or PWN's and and what that even is. Matter of fact, it kind of looks like a cover sheet, so I think a lot of people throw it out, and I totally get that. Totally. But it's so important. So maybe in that question and answer session we could kind of take like those top three, or even like how we bring together the medicine, the law, and then of course education together to kind of you know really build those bridges with those with those areas and and add those to our question and answer episode. I don't know. Jayson St.Croix: Yep, that's coming up. That's coming up in four episodes. if someone who's listening has a question for you and they would like to submit it, how can they do that? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: They should have me ask you. Because remember, I don't even know what we're doing before we get here. Jayson St.Croix: All right. So this is one of the only times I can tell you that you're wrong on this one. Nope, that's not how they should do it. They should reach out to us through social media, comment, drop us a DM, and we're on Instagram and Facebook. And I believe our director now has us up on TikTok and Snap as well. But reach out to us if you got a question that you would like answered in an upcoming episode, we'd love to hear it and we'd love to answer it for you. Right? Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Always. I am absolutely always even the tough questions. Even the tough questions. Because we're never I just said this in in one of my struggles this week that I was dealing with is that you can be collaborative and still and not need to be confrontational, right? Like we can be collaborative and not agree and you know work through things regardless of where the arena is. Sometimes it's in the law world, sometimes it's in the education world, sometimes it's in the medical world. But we don't have to be separate entities. We don't need to be. There's no reason for it. Jayson St.Croix: Right. We we all have the same goal in mind. We're just coming at it from different directions. We don't we want our children to be successful. Right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yep. Yep. Jayson St.Croix: Okay, guess what? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: We're done. Jayson St.Croix: Yep, we're almost done. And don't worry, we're not having chicken for dinner tonight. So that's Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha ha Jayson St.Croix: a wrap on today's episode of Hook, Line, & SinkHer Her. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a parent who could use a reminder that steady is just good enough. Next time we're diving into tackle box troubles, organization systems that actually stick. Because if anyone has a drawer full of half-finished systems, it's you, not us, because I wouldn't want to be accused of being an imposter again. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I don't have half done systems. Here here at the firm Our SOPs are just boom, boom, boom, right out. They're all organized in the same space. They're all put together by our director of operations. Like we revisit them. And actually, one of the PDs that we do is to support the building of systems. So for, but again, that comes from my ADHD of needing everything in that perfect organized manner. I I lose everything, we know that, right? And I can't have things in disarray or not have it checklist written out. Every one of our standard operating procedures for the firm has checklists in it of who what employee within the firm is responsible for that part of the procedure, and it's in a checklist. Jayson St.Croix: Excellent. I I can't wait for you to share those systems with our audience next week. Do you want the question do you want the questions ahead of time so that you can prepare Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I bet Jayson St.Croix: or do you want to keep going off the cuff? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No I don't no, I've said to you in the beginning, if I don't know an answer to a question that you're gonna ask me, I'm gonna say I don't know. But the other part of that is is like I should know. Jayson St.Croix: All right. Until next time, keep casting, keep learning, and remember, sometimes the best catches happen when you least expect them.