Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / PRETTY COOL: Paige Mycoskie Founder of Aviator Nation

Transcript

PRETTY COOL: Paige Mycoskie Founder of Aviator Nation · QUESTION EVERYTHING

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Speaker 1: The following podcast is a DAR Media production.
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Speaker 2: Hi.
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Speaker 3: We're Carlene and Jill, hosts of Breaking Beauty Podcast. The
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Speaker 3: show all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty.
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Speaker 4: Plus, you'll get shopping help with our Damn Goods episodes
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Speaker 3: Listen every Wednesday to Breaking Beauty Podcast.
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Speaker 2: Big Things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
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Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
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Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:52
Speaker 2: This is pretty smart. I have the Queen of California
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Speaker 2: Cool with me today, under and president of the lifestyle
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Speaker 2: apparel brand Aviator Nation page My Coski. You know an
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Speaker 2: Aviator Nation piece when you see it, whether it's a sweatshirt, truck,
1:10
Speaker 2: or hat, surfboard or puffy jacket. You can spot the
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Speaker 2: nineteen seventies inspired retro vintage vibe and super soft fabric
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Speaker 2: pretty quickly. Ask anyone to describe Aviator Nation, They'll say
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Speaker 2: it's effortlessly cool. I'm guessing if I ask people to
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Speaker 2: describe Paige my Coski, they'd say the same thing about her.
1:31
Speaker 2: How'd you get so cool?
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Speaker 1: Wow, that's a funny question. You know. I think that
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Speaker 1: I really just try to be myself. Ever since I
1:40
Speaker 1: was a little girl, I've really just kind of done
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Speaker 1: whatever I want to do. And I think that confidence,
1:47
Speaker 1: you know, definitely transpires into being cool because you know,
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Speaker 1: you really just kind of do what you want to do,
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Speaker 1: you wear what you want to wear, which just allows
1:55
Speaker 1: me a lot of expression. And yeah, so, I mean
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Speaker 1: I think that that could have something to do with it.
2:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that I, like, you know,
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Speaker 1: am self proclaimed cool, but I definitely am confident and
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Speaker 1: I'm really proud of that. And I think that that
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Speaker 1: just comes from really just kind of being myself and
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Speaker 1: being authentic and I've always really been that way.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's cool that you're cool, but you're also obviously
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Speaker 2: very smart. I read that Aviator Nation employees more than
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Speaker 2: two hundred people, including one hundred and twenty who work
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Speaker 2: in its factory in South LA. Thirteen stores. Eighty percent
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Speaker 2: of sales are direct to consumer. You sell major wholesalers
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Speaker 2: like Bloomingdale's, nordstrom, Sacks, soul Cycle. Most entrepreneurs I've interviewed
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Speaker 2: have stories of that sort of mindset from a very
2:42
Speaker 2: young age. Is that something you identify with?
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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, we're actually now over three hundred,
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Speaker 1: believe it or not. We have had so much growth
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Speaker 1: this year.
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Speaker 2: Well, with the pandemic, you have the softest clothing. Everybody
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Speaker 2: probably really gravitated towards Aviator Nation.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean we pretty much beefed up that redepartment
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Speaker 1: this past year, which has been crazy, but it's awesome
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Speaker 1: to employ that many people. So it's actually funny. From
3:05
Speaker 1: a young age, I definitely had the entrepreneur spirit. I
3:10
Speaker 1: was super competitive with like lemonade stands. And it's funny
3:16
Speaker 1: because I saw someone doing a lemonade stand once and
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Speaker 1: I was like, I want to do that. And I
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Speaker 1: loved candy as a little girl, so like you know,
3:22
Speaker 1: I wanted to go buy candy, and my parents were
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Speaker 1: really cool in the way that they didn't just give
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Speaker 1: me money all the time. They really said, you know,
3:30
Speaker 1: I think it's good for you to earn the money.
3:33
Speaker 1: So whether I was doing chores or whatever, you know,
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Speaker 1: they always made it possible for me to earn money
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Speaker 1: by doing hard work. But yeah, like I got into
3:41
Speaker 1: the whole lemonade stand thing. I started making donuts and
3:44
Speaker 1: selling them on the side of the road, and yeah,
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Speaker 1: I kind of took it to the next level and realized,
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Speaker 1: you know, how fun it was to make money even
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Speaker 1: as a little kid, and then go to the store
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Speaker 1: and buy something. You know, I think I've always left
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Speaker 1: to shop and so you know, when you can buy
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Speaker 1: something with your own money that you earned, I mean,
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Speaker 1: that's really powerful. So I definitely learned that from a
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Speaker 1: young age.
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Speaker 2: So when I was a kid, I wanted to be
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Speaker 2: a pop star. I now get to wear a headset.
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Speaker 2: But obviously things change. When you were a kid, did
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Speaker 2: you dream of having a clothing line?
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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't. I did actually have a sewing
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Speaker 1: machine from a young age, and I love to make things,
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Speaker 1: but you know, it wasn't I don't know, I didn't
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Speaker 1: specifically want to, you know, be a fashion designer. I
4:32
Speaker 1: really I just wanted to work for myself. I can
4:35
Speaker 1: say that that has always been a thing. I always
4:39
Speaker 1: wanted the freedom. I wanted to learn everything so that
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Speaker 1: I could really figure it out and do things on
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Speaker 1: my own. And I've had a lot of jobs, which
4:47
Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, like my brother and
4:49
Speaker 1: you know whatever, like have kind of worked for themselves
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Speaker 1: from the beginning, but I actually really had a lot
4:54
Speaker 1: of jobs and I and I realized through all those
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Speaker 1: jobs that, like, I just loved having my my own
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Speaker 1: freedom and also be able to do it my own way.
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Speaker 1: I think that you know, when you're really picky and
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Speaker 1: really particular on things, you realize that the more control
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Speaker 1: you have over your day to day is so important.
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Speaker 1: So I think that running my own show was always
5:17
Speaker 1: in the cards.
5:18
Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned the entrepreneurial mindset. There's an author,
5:23
Speaker 2: Margo Bisno, who wrote a book titled Raising an Entrepreneur,
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Speaker 2: and she interviewed sixty successful entrepreneurs and their parents to
5:30
Speaker 2: see if there were practices that they had in common.
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Speaker 2: One of her main findings was that every entrepreneur in
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Speaker 2: the book had someone usually a parent, and typically their
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Speaker 2: mother who believed in them. So your mom, Pam has
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Speaker 2: two entrepreneurs, two successful entrepreneurs for people who don't know.
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Speaker 2: Your older brother is Blake Mikoski, who's the founder and
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Speaker 2: chief shoegiver of Tom's and they provided eighty six million
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Speaker 2: pairs of shoes to kids since two thousand and six.
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Speaker 2: He also created the one to one model, which I
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Speaker 2: was really interested to learn. What was it about your
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Speaker 2: upbringing that's spurred two self starters?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I think that it's because my
6:07
Speaker 1: parents really did believe in us. You know, they gave
6:09
Speaker 1: us just a lot of freedom to kind of decide
6:13
Speaker 1: things on our own. And I think that, you know,
6:16
Speaker 1: that allowed us the ability to really make our own
6:20
Speaker 1: decisions and pave our own way. And really, I never
6:23
Speaker 1: remember feeling fear that I couldn't do something, you know.
6:27
Speaker 1: And I know that a lot of kids and even friends,
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Speaker 1: you know, have that problem where their parents, you know, say,
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Speaker 1: you know, you have to do this, or you have
6:34
Speaker 1: to do this job, or you have to get this degree,
6:36
Speaker 1: or you have to go to college or whatever. And like,
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Speaker 1: I was never pressured, you know, and I'm so thankful
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Speaker 1: for that now and looking back, and just realizing that
6:44
Speaker 1: they they let us make our own decisions, they let
6:47
Speaker 1: us make our own mistakes. I mean, you know, I
6:49
Speaker 1: made a lot of big mistakes and I learned from those.
6:52
Speaker 1: And I think that you have to have that experience
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Speaker 1: of like doing it on your own and like just
6:57
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there to really pave your way and
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Speaker 1: learn what you love. And I think that you know,
7:01
Speaker 1: when you don't feel pressured to do anything or be
7:04
Speaker 1: something specific, you're able to really tap into what your
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Speaker 1: true passion is. And when it comes to being an entrepreneur,
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Speaker 1: I mean, the number one thing for me is are
7:13
Speaker 1: you passionate about what you're doing? Because you know, if
7:15
Speaker 1: you're not passionate about what you're trying to do and
7:18
Speaker 1: it's just about money or whatever, then you're like ten
7:20
Speaker 1: steps behind the person that is passionate. So I always,
7:23
Speaker 1: you know, I always talk about that because if I
7:26
Speaker 1: just really believe that the most successful entrepreneurs are passionate
7:29
Speaker 1: about the specific product that they have. And yeah, being
7:32
Speaker 1: able to find myself because my parents allowed me kind
7:36
Speaker 1: of the ability to do whatever I wanted was an
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Speaker 1: interesting way to grow up and I think that.
7:40
Speaker 2: Helped a lot when you say big mistakes, is there
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Speaker 2: one or two that kind of are at the forefront
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Speaker 2: of your mind.
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Speaker 1: So I had a truck in high school, and I
7:50
Speaker 1: had four wheel drive, and I was really into off roading,
7:53
Speaker 1: and for some reason, I decided to go what we
7:57
Speaker 1: called it mud and you know, like in Texas. I
7:59
Speaker 1: grow in Texas, and so we went mud and when
8:01
Speaker 1: it rained, and so I had my truck and I'm
8:04
Speaker 1: in the mud and like, I'm out in the middle
8:05
Speaker 1: of nowhere, you know, with other friends that had trucks
8:08
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I got stuck. And I called my
8:11
Speaker 1: dad and I was like, Dad, like I'm stuck in
8:13
Speaker 1: the mud, you know whatever. He's like, hey, I can't
8:16
Speaker 1: deal with this right now. Figure it out, and like
8:18
Speaker 1: basically hung up on me. And I remember that moment
8:22
Speaker 1: so well. I was obviously, like really upset because I
8:26
Speaker 1: was like, are you kidding me? Like I have no
8:28
Speaker 1: idea what to do right now. You know, I'm a
8:30
Speaker 1: high school kid. His first time I've ever been stuck
8:32
Speaker 1: somewhere and in the middle of nowhere and anyway, but
8:35
Speaker 1: that day I had to figure it out, you know,
8:37
Speaker 1: I had to get a tow truck out there. I
8:38
Speaker 1: had to figure out how to pay for it, like
8:40
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And you know, my dad was was
8:43
Speaker 1: an orthopedic surgeon and he was in surgery or something,
8:46
Speaker 1: you know, so he couldn't help, but you know he
8:49
Speaker 1: has Both of my parents kind of let me figure
8:51
Speaker 1: stuff out on my own, and like in that moment,
8:53
Speaker 1: I figured it out, and I remember, you know that
8:56
Speaker 1: really changed the course for me of just feeling like,
8:59
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to figure it out and
9:01
Speaker 1: I can and I'm fine with it. And obviously you
9:04
Speaker 1: make tons of mistakes in your life and you end
9:06
Speaker 1: up in trouble or whatever at times being a kid,
9:09
Speaker 1: and I think just just really knowing that calling my
9:14
Speaker 1: parents was not you know, the solution that figuring it out.
9:17
Speaker 1: And back then, you know, we didn't have even Google
9:20
Speaker 1: and Google search and stuff, you know. I mean that
9:22
Speaker 1: was like it was like I had to literally probably
9:24
Speaker 1: like figure out phone book situation of like I don't know,
9:27
Speaker 1: something crazy, but I remember it was tough, but I
9:30
Speaker 1: got out of it and I was like, Okay, I
9:32
Speaker 1: was like cool, I feel comfortable doing off roading now
9:35
Speaker 1: because I can. I know how to get a toe truck,
9:37
Speaker 1: you know, if I get stuck. So yeah, that was
9:39
Speaker 1: a moment for sure.
9:41
Speaker 2: I like that it was stuck in the mud, literally
9:44
Speaker 2: and figuratively. You were stuck in the mud. That's so good. Yeah,
9:48
Speaker 2: so I didn't know this. You were a journalism major.
9:51
Speaker 2: You went to ASU, and I wouldn't have expected that.
9:54
Speaker 2: What did you intend to do after graduation?
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I've always been really into photography and magazines
10:01
Speaker 1: and I've loved I've always loved to write, and so
10:04
Speaker 1: I was thinking that I wanted to go into journalism
10:08
Speaker 1: and potentially start my own magazine. I thought it would
10:10
Speaker 1: be fun to highlight things that I love to do.
10:13
Speaker 1: And you know, like I've always kind of been into
10:15
Speaker 1: the lifestyle, you know of like just like doing cool
10:18
Speaker 1: stuff and traveling and all of that. So you know,
10:20
Speaker 1: I thought journalism was the answer. And then when I
10:24
Speaker 1: got into journalism, I actually minored in photography at ASU,
10:28
Speaker 1: and when I got into the photography causes, I realized
10:30
Speaker 1: that was like a super big passion of mine. And
10:33
Speaker 1: so I really kind of shifted from journalism to photo
10:36
Speaker 1: journalism and started doing a ton of photography. And when
10:39
Speaker 1: I did that, like that was when digital photography was
10:42
Speaker 1: really just starting, and so Photoshop was a big part
10:45
Speaker 1: of the program that I was taking. And when I
10:47
Speaker 1: started working in Photoshop, I learned design because you know,
10:51
Speaker 1: you kind of it's not really the traditional way to
10:53
Speaker 1: do design. You know, you've got illustrator and stuff like that.
10:55
Speaker 1: But I was using Photoshop to create cool designs that
10:59
Speaker 1: I was turning in the into you know, these cool
11:01
Speaker 1: graphics and stuff, and so it kind of it was
11:04
Speaker 1: really interesting how that happened. But yeah, I thought that
11:07
Speaker 1: I wanted to go into journalism, and I actually got
11:09
Speaker 1: an internship at the end of school for Shape magazine,
11:13
Speaker 1: and I was working in California as an intern, and
11:16
Speaker 1: I realized that I didn't want to be in an office.
11:18
Speaker 1: That was kind of the big turning point for me
11:20
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, I'm not doing journalism because
11:22
Speaker 1: I just couldn't see myself, you know, day to day
11:25
Speaker 1: being in an office.
11:26
Speaker 2: And then where'd you go from there? How did Aviator
11:29
Speaker 2: Nations start?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically, when I went out to California to
11:33
Speaker 1: do that internship for journalism, I learned to surf and
11:37
Speaker 1: I fell in love with surfing, and I was living
11:40
Speaker 1: kind of up by zoom a Beach in Malibu, because
11:43
Speaker 1: Shape magazine was based in Thousand Oaks at the time,
11:46
Speaker 1: and so I totally fell in love with surfing. And
11:49
Speaker 1: as soon as I started surfing, I had a one
11:52
Speaker 1: track mind that I wanted to be in California. I
11:55
Speaker 1: actually didn't go back to school. I did not finish school,
11:58
Speaker 1: and I just decided that I was going to figure
12:01
Speaker 1: it out and move to California. And so I got
12:04
Speaker 1: an apartment, I got a job. I was actually waiting tables,
12:08
Speaker 1: I was working at a surf shop, and I was
12:11
Speaker 1: doing journalism freelance and photography freelance. So like I was
12:15
Speaker 1: just like hustling, you know. And I mean, and.
12:17
Speaker 2: Your parents weren't freaking out that you dropped out of school,
12:20
Speaker 2: you know.
12:21
Speaker 1: That's the thing. Like my parents were always kind of
12:23
Speaker 1: cool with whatever I wanted to do. And my dad
12:26
Speaker 1: was like, you know, if you're making money and you
12:28
Speaker 1: can pay to live. I mean, it wasn't like I
12:30
Speaker 1: was going to them for money, so you know, they're like, okay,
12:33
Speaker 1: like figure it out, you know. And and you know,
12:36
Speaker 1: I had passion with what I wanted to do. I
12:38
Speaker 1: probably talked my way into stuff because I was so
12:41
Speaker 1: passionate about it. Like I just have to be there.
12:43
Speaker 1: I have to be in California right now, you know.
12:44
Speaker 1: So they couldn't say no, but they allowed me to
12:47
Speaker 1: go out there and do that. And yeah, so I
12:49
Speaker 1: was actually working at a surf shop. And after like
12:52
Speaker 1: working at seurf shop, you know, you're in the retail
12:54
Speaker 1: world and you're around clothing all the time. And I
12:57
Speaker 1: actually started as data entry DJ boarding house in Santa
13:01
Speaker 1: Monica or Venice, kind of on the border there, and
13:04
Speaker 1: I quickly went from data entry to the assistant to
13:07
Speaker 1: the main buyer because every time I was entering orders,
13:10
Speaker 1: I would be like, why are you buying this? This
13:12
Speaker 1: color is not near as cool as this color. And
13:14
Speaker 1: I was like super picky about what he was buying.
13:17
Speaker 1: And so he actually started bringing me to trade shows
13:19
Speaker 1: and asking for my advice on what to carry in
13:22
Speaker 1: the store and what to buy. And I kind of
13:23
Speaker 1: had this eye for, you know, what was going to
13:26
Speaker 1: be cool or you know whatever. I was really passionate
13:29
Speaker 1: about it. And so after going to trade shows and
13:32
Speaker 1: stuff and just looking around, I just I really just
13:35
Speaker 1: did not think the clothes that I basically what I
13:37
Speaker 1: wanted to wear did not exist. And everything that I
13:41
Speaker 1: wanted to wear. I would find it like a free
13:42
Speaker 1: market or a thrift store, and it was really hard
13:44
Speaker 1: to find, like the old perfect hoodie or the old
13:47
Speaker 1: perfect T shirt. And I always wanted to be comfortable.
13:49
Speaker 1: That was a huge part of it. But so I
13:51
Speaker 1: decided that I would save up some money and buy
13:53
Speaker 1: a sewing machine, and after work at night, I started sewing,
13:58
Speaker 1: and I taught myself how to make patterns. I cut
14:02
Speaker 1: up my favorite T shirts, so I knew how to
14:04
Speaker 1: make them. I always think, you know, if you take
14:06
Speaker 1: something apart, you can figure out how it should be
14:08
Speaker 1: put together, because you know, kind of reverse engineering is
14:11
Speaker 1: the way to go. So anyway, I did that, and
14:13
Speaker 1: I started making my own clothing and wearing it to work,
14:15
Speaker 1: and I would go into the surf shop and like
14:17
Speaker 1: people would come in and be like, what are you wearing?
14:20
Speaker 1: Like what is that shirt? You know? I want to
14:21
Speaker 1: buy that, And it just became so obvious after days
14:26
Speaker 1: of wearing the stuff I was making around town and
14:29
Speaker 1: venice that I should actually try to sell it. So
14:33
Speaker 1: that was kind of the beginning, is I was purely
14:36
Speaker 1: just making clothes for myself because what I wanted to
14:38
Speaker 1: wear didn't exist.
14:40
Speaker 2: And so when did you go from selling a few
14:43
Speaker 2: items of clothing to knowing like I have something here
14:46
Speaker 2: I need to expand and really make this happen.
14:49
Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically what I did, I when I realized
14:53
Speaker 1: it was, you know, people were interested in what I
14:55
Speaker 1: was making. I sewed up a whole collection because I
14:57
Speaker 1: knew from working at ZJS, working at the Surf Shop
15:00
Speaker 1: that you know, people presented a collection. You know, you
15:02
Speaker 1: don't just present a T shirt, you know, you present
15:04
Speaker 1: a collection. So I spent a few months like working
15:08
Speaker 1: on a collection. And so I had a rack of clothes.
15:10
Speaker 1: It was my collection. And then once I had that,
15:13
Speaker 1: I decided that, okay, I needed to get into this
15:16
Speaker 1: specific store that I thought was the best store in
15:18
Speaker 1: LA and that was fred Siegel. So fred Siegel, it
15:21
Speaker 1: was in their Santa Monica location. They carried amazing cool brands.
15:25
Speaker 1: You know, it was just in my opinion, it was
15:27
Speaker 1: the best store. And so I thought, you know, if
15:30
Speaker 1: I can get in the best store, then everything else
15:33
Speaker 1: will follow because everyone wants to do what fred Siegel's doing.
15:36
Speaker 1: You know, it's like they're like setting the standard for
15:38
Speaker 1: like fashion in LA. And so that was my mentality,
15:42
Speaker 1: is I just needed to get into that store. So
15:44
Speaker 1: that was my very first thing. So I basically went
15:47
Speaker 1: to fred Siegel. I was wearing the clothes and I said, hey,
15:51
Speaker 1: is the buyer around, you know? And they're like, what buyer?
15:54
Speaker 1: Like I mean, they thought it was nuts, you know,
15:56
Speaker 1: like I'm asking for the buyer and this like super
15:58
Speaker 1: like high end, like you know, incredibly impossible store to
16:02
Speaker 1: get into, you know, and I just like I'm off
16:04
Speaker 1: the street, like, hey, is the buyer around. They're like, no,
16:07
Speaker 1: you have to have an appointment on the buyer. And
16:09
Speaker 1: I was like, oh okay. I was like, well, I
16:11
Speaker 1: live in Venice. I made these clothes that I'm wearing,
16:13
Speaker 1: and I love Fred Ziegel, and everyone's going to want
16:16
Speaker 1: to buy this, and so I really think you guys
16:18
Speaker 1: should have it because you always have everything first, you know.
16:21
Speaker 1: I kind of like gave my little sales pitch and
16:23
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, it sounds good. And I left some
16:26
Speaker 1: photos that I had taken myself of myself wearing the clothes,
16:30
Speaker 1: and I left them behind and I was walking out
16:33
Speaker 1: to the parking lot. I got in my car and
16:34
Speaker 1: literally before I left the parking lot, I got a
16:37
Speaker 1: phone call from fred Siegel and they're like, hey, our
16:40
Speaker 1: buyer wants to meet with you. She saw your photos,
16:42
Speaker 1: she saw you walk out, she just came in and
16:44
Speaker 1: she loved what you're wearing, and she wants to meet
16:46
Speaker 1: with you. And so I was like okay. They're like,
16:48
Speaker 1: are you available tomorrow? And I said sure. So I
16:51
Speaker 1: came in the next day with my rack of clothes
16:54
Speaker 1: and she pretty much bought every single thing that I had,
16:57
Speaker 1: and she placed an order for eight thousand dollars, which
16:59
Speaker 1: was is my first order and even today that's a
17:02
Speaker 1: pretty decent size order. So I was like, okay, that's
17:04
Speaker 1: income right there, you know, that's the eight thousand dollars
17:07
Speaker 1: worth of clothes. And she said, well, when will it
17:09
Speaker 1: be ready? And I knew that people kind of bought
17:11
Speaker 1: things a few months out from working in the search shop,
17:13
Speaker 1: and so I said, oh, I'll have it ready in
17:14
Speaker 1: a few months and she said okay, great. So anyway,
17:17
Speaker 1: a few months later, I brought in the clothes that
17:20
Speaker 1: I had made. You know, I sewed them all up
17:22
Speaker 1: myself and brought in the clothes and literally it was
17:26
Speaker 1: like I brought him in on like a Thursday or something.
17:28
Speaker 1: And then after the weekend on like Sunday, she called
17:31
Speaker 1: me and she's like, hey, we sold out. I need
17:33
Speaker 1: another reorder. And I was like what And she's like
17:35
Speaker 1: how fast can I get more? Like it's flying off
17:38
Speaker 1: the show.
17:38
Speaker 2: That's making me sweat. What did you do?
17:41
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was like okay. I was like sure, yeah,
17:44
Speaker 1: reorder coming up. You know, I'll get to work on it.
17:47
Speaker 1: And I like hung up the phone and I did
17:50
Speaker 1: the math. I'm like how long it takes me to
17:52
Speaker 1: make a garment and how long it would really take
17:54
Speaker 1: me to make what she wanted? And I realized I
17:56
Speaker 1: needed help, you know. But at that moment, it was
17:59
Speaker 1: pretty you know, I got chills and I was just like, okay,
18:02
Speaker 1: like this is crazy, but like if I can sell
18:04
Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars worth of clothes on a weekend, like
18:07
Speaker 1: I'm doing something right here, you know. So So anyway, yeah,
18:11
Speaker 1: I basically from that moment went down tail And I
18:13
Speaker 1: had no experience, no idea, you know, how to really
18:17
Speaker 1: mass produce clothing. But I knew I needed help, and
18:19
Speaker 1: so I just kind of started going door to door
18:21
Speaker 1: and put together a small little team to help me.
18:25
Speaker 1: So but yeah, that was really the big moment for me.
18:28
Speaker 2: I love that you were saying that you sewed them yourself,
18:31
Speaker 2: because to this day, you draw a lot of the
18:33
Speaker 2: designs yourself. I was reading, like some of the lightning
18:36
Speaker 2: bolts that you do, they're slightly imperfect, and you want that.
18:40
Speaker 2: Why is that important to you?
18:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I first started, you know, when I
18:44
Speaker 1: was making the clothes for myself, I you know, I
18:47
Speaker 1: grew up, I grew up an artist, So I've always
18:49
Speaker 1: drawn a lot of stuff, and I had like notepads
18:52
Speaker 1: of drawings that I'd done. And when I when I
18:55
Speaker 1: learned how the screen print, which is funny, I actually
18:57
Speaker 1: bought like a DVD on how to screen print and
19:00
Speaker 1: taught myself and set it up in my room and everything.
19:03
Speaker 1: And you know, at that point, I did not know
19:07
Speaker 1: how to do like a lot of designs in the computer.
19:09
Speaker 1: So I just drew everything by hand that I wanted
19:12
Speaker 1: and then I would scan it into the computer and
19:14
Speaker 1: then make the screens based on that. So so basically
19:18
Speaker 1: when I started, I was making the designs that way
19:20
Speaker 1: because that was the only experience I had. And same
19:23
Speaker 1: thing with stitchwork, you know, the stitch work. Sometimes I
19:26
Speaker 1: would want like multicolor designs, and I didn't know how
19:29
Speaker 1: to print more than like four colors, because that's the
19:31
Speaker 1: only kind of printing thing I could get that would
19:33
Speaker 1: fit in my bedroom was a four color press, and like,
19:36
Speaker 1: if I wanted like ten colors, I would have to
19:38
Speaker 1: cut out fabric and those colors and sew it onto
19:40
Speaker 1: the garment to get all those colors. And so this
19:44
Speaker 1: was totally just a random thing that I was doing
19:46
Speaker 1: just to try to put the design on the garment.
19:50
Speaker 1: And I did it that way and everybody loved it,
19:52
Speaker 1: and so the thing is, now I have to continue
19:55
Speaker 1: doing it that way, so it continues to look that way.
19:57
Speaker 1: You know, it really has a handmade look, because that's
20:00
Speaker 1: what it was when I started. And the reason it
20:03
Speaker 1: was that way when I started is because I did
20:04
Speaker 1: not have any other way of doing it.
20:06
Speaker 2: Really, that's really cool. I love that you've maintained that
20:09
Speaker 2: to this day, even though the brand's expanded so much.
20:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even when it comes to like fonts
20:14
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. You know, it's obviously so easy
20:17
Speaker 1: to buy fonts online, but I don't do it that way.
20:19
Speaker 1: I always create my own letters and my own fonts,
20:22
Speaker 1: and I hand draw everything and then I put it
20:25
Speaker 1: in the computer and then you know, I add color
20:27
Speaker 1: to it or whatever. But I enjoy doing it that way,
20:30
Speaker 1: and I do think it makes us very different from
20:32
Speaker 1: other brands, because I mean, who has the time to
20:34
Speaker 1: sit around and like draw their fonts, you know. But
20:37
Speaker 1: I'm like crazy about it. So that's just, you know,
20:39
Speaker 1: what's fun for me.
20:40
Speaker 2: It's one of the things that makes you so distinct
20:42
Speaker 2: for sure. The other thing I think is that you
20:44
Speaker 2: have the softest material of all time. I mean, I
20:48
Speaker 2: have a rule I won't put anything on my body
20:50
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel good that isn't soft. It's like butter
20:53
Speaker 2: on my skin. Wow.
20:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm super picky about that. I've always wanted to
20:58
Speaker 1: be comfortable, and it's funny now, like it's hard for
21:01
Speaker 1: me to really wear anything else just because I am
21:04
Speaker 1: so obsessed with being super comfortable. And I definitely think
21:07
Speaker 1: that I make some of the softest clothes out there.
21:10
Speaker 1: So I'm crazy picky about it. I mean it's like
21:13
Speaker 1: I'll get samples every day that I'm like, no, this
21:15
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't soft enough. Send it that. You know,
21:18
Speaker 1: we have to rework how we did the fabric or whatever. Yeah,
21:21
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm definitely picky about that.
21:24
Speaker 2: Well, we appreciate your consumers appreciate it. So I remember
21:28
Speaker 2: when I was younger, I would read all those garbage
21:30
Speaker 2: magazines like US Weekly and People, and all of the
21:33
Speaker 2: celebrities were in La. I grew up in Chicago, so
21:36
Speaker 2: La seemed very far away. It was a very distant land.
21:39
Speaker 2: And you had all these celebrities, Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Garner,
21:42
Speaker 2: Jay Z, Jake Gillenhall, Mindy Kayling, the Kardashians. They were
21:46
Speaker 2: all wearing Aviator Nation. Oftentimes they were drinking a coffee
21:50
Speaker 2: and walking their dog and Malibu or by the beach,
21:53
Speaker 2: and I was thinking, Wow, California looks so cool, and
21:56
Speaker 2: also what is Aviator Nation?
21:58
Speaker 1: Like?
21:58
Speaker 2: Those magazines made me know your brand. Who were you
22:01
Speaker 2: most excited to see in your designs?
22:04
Speaker 1: You know, I was really there's there's there have been
22:06
Speaker 1: a few. I was super pumped to see Reese Witherspoon
22:09
Speaker 1: because I love her. I'm a huge fan of her,
22:11
Speaker 1: so that was super exciting. And then I was pumped
22:14
Speaker 1: to see Kate Hudson because I also love Kate Hudson.
22:17
Speaker 1: She's one of my favorites as far as guys go.
22:19
Speaker 1: I was stoked to see Robert Downey Junior because iron
22:22
Speaker 1: Man is like my favorite superhero and and he actually
22:26
Speaker 1: wears it a lot and comes in the store and
22:28
Speaker 1: shops a lot, and he actually sent me a Christmas gift.
22:31
Speaker 1: It was like the most amazing gift ever.
22:34
Speaker 2: But what he said canne.
22:36
Speaker 1: He hand wrote me this note and said, like I said,
22:39
Speaker 1: all these nice things about the brand and how much
22:41
Speaker 1: he loved it. But yeah, I think that those are
22:44
Speaker 1: a few of my of my big ones, just because
22:47
Speaker 1: I was a personal fan of all those people. I
22:49
Speaker 1: think Heidi Klum was cool too, because you know, as
22:52
Speaker 1: far as fashion goes, you know, I look at her
22:55
Speaker 1: as you know, pretty much a fashion icon. And so
22:57
Speaker 1: when I saw her walking down a street and York
23:00
Speaker 1: City wearing my you know, Bolt sweatshirt, I'm like, okay,
23:03
Speaker 1: there you go. Like she's not working out, she's just
23:05
Speaker 1: rocking it. You know. She had on like high tops
23:07
Speaker 1: and cool leggings and like my Bolt sweatshirt, and she
23:10
Speaker 1: looked amazing. And I remember that moment because I was like, Okay,
23:14
Speaker 1: this is like one of the queens of fashion, super
23:17
Speaker 1: relevant right now. She looks like a total rock star,
23:20
Speaker 1: which is what I want, you know, to achieve with
23:22
Speaker 1: people wearing the clothes. And I was like, that was it.
23:24
Speaker 1: I was like, she's doing exactly you know. I couldn't
23:27
Speaker 1: design a better moment, you know.
23:28
Speaker 2: So that was cool, right, that's what you envisioned. Wait quickly,
23:31
Speaker 2: what did Robert Downey Junior get you for Christmas?
23:34
Speaker 1: Well, he basically just sent me a letter telling me
23:37
Speaker 1: that he wanted to do something with me and that
23:41
Speaker 1: like he thought what I was doing was amazing. It
23:43
Speaker 1: was pretty much better that he said. And I was
23:47
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, you know, this guy wants
23:50
Speaker 1: to actually meet me and like do something with me.
23:52
Speaker 1: And he said, oh, you know what he did. He
23:54
Speaker 1: drew a picture too of like the Iron Man logo,
23:57
Speaker 1: and he said there's a lot of like synergy between brands.
24:00
Speaker 1: And I was just like, are you kidding me? Like
24:02
Speaker 1: synergy between me and Iron Man? Like that's crazy. Like
24:07
Speaker 1: I was super pumped.
24:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pinch me moment for sure.
24:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:11
Speaker 2: So why is it important to you to make everything
24:14
Speaker 2: in the US? You make everything in California.
24:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So there's a few reasons, but number one,
24:21
Speaker 1: I believe that the quality is always going to be
24:24
Speaker 1: better when it's close to home. I am, like, I mean,
24:27
Speaker 1: every day, no matter where I am in the world,
24:30
Speaker 1: I'm getting overnight packages of things to approve. And you know,
24:33
Speaker 1: for years, up until really the last couple of years,
24:36
Speaker 1: I was in the factory every single day, you know,
24:39
Speaker 1: really watching the clothes, especially in the early days, and
24:42
Speaker 1: so you know, if I making things in America, you know,
24:46
Speaker 1: the quality is absolutely going to be better in my opinion.
24:50
Speaker 1: And then once I started to grow, I really I
24:52
Speaker 1: realized how important it was to employ people that were Americans.
24:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I get so much satisfaction out of the
24:58
Speaker 1: fact that, like I support over three hundred people and
25:01
Speaker 1: their families and their children, and you know, like I've seen,
25:04
Speaker 1: I've grown up with a lot of these people because
25:06
Speaker 1: I've had employees for thirteen years at this point, and
25:10
Speaker 1: you know, some of my production people have been with
25:12
Speaker 1: me since day one, and you know, I've literally watched
25:15
Speaker 1: their children grow up and go to college, and I
25:17
Speaker 1: know that they're able to pay for that because of
25:19
Speaker 1: Aviator Nation, and that makes me feel really good, you know.
25:22
Speaker 1: And then also you know, just just being a role
25:27
Speaker 1: model for other fashion brands because so much has done
25:30
Speaker 1: overseas now and I just don't like that. You know,
25:32
Speaker 1: I'm very patriotic. I'm all about, you know, the Maiden
25:36
Speaker 1: America thing, and you know, I'm all about like like
25:39
Speaker 1: giving the jobs to our people, you know, our American citizens,
25:43
Speaker 1: and you know, like I hate seeing homeless people, and
25:45
Speaker 1: I just have a real thing for, like, you know,
25:47
Speaker 1: creating jobs. So it turned into kind of that after
25:50
Speaker 1: the quality was kind of the first reason, and then
25:52
Speaker 1: it turned into that. And now it's like, you know,
25:55
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're definitely a California brand, and that's
25:58
Speaker 1: a big part of who we are and that's a
25:59
Speaker 1: huge and my inspiration and my lifestyle, and you know,
26:02
Speaker 1: I think that being authentic is the key to really
26:05
Speaker 1: being successful in this business and in any business. And
26:09
Speaker 1: I love California, you know, so I think that even
26:11
Speaker 1: though it's it's probably more expensive to make clothes in
26:14
Speaker 1: California than anywhere else in the world, I continue to
26:17
Speaker 1: do it just because I want to stay true to
26:19
Speaker 1: the brand and our roots and you know where it
26:22
Speaker 1: all started.
26:23
Speaker 2: We've talked about some major highs. Do you have a
26:26
Speaker 2: day that stands out as the most difficult or challenging.
26:30
Speaker 2: As the founder of Aviator Nation.
26:33
Speaker 1: You know, there have been a few kind of turning
26:36
Speaker 1: point days for me. Obviously, the pandemic was a major deal.
26:41
Speaker 1: I had just opened my thirteenth retail location and Las
26:45
Speaker 1: Vegas last year when I got the news that all
26:48
Speaker 1: of my stores had to close. And I actually opened
26:51
Speaker 1: six stores in a year, So I traveled around opening stores,
26:55
Speaker 1: and so I kind of doubled my business, and I
26:57
Speaker 1: was just at the point where, like you know, ring break,
27:00
Speaker 1: it was like time to you know, I was very
27:03
Speaker 1: excited about my store opening in Vegas and I had
27:06
Speaker 1: to shut everything down. And learning that I had to
27:09
Speaker 1: shut my factory down, my stores, you know, my office
27:13
Speaker 1: is everything was a giant, you know, difficult moment for me.
27:18
Speaker 1: That's something that you know, you can't really explain what
27:22
Speaker 1: comes over you and you have I mean, I know
27:25
Speaker 1: a lot of people have a lot more employees than
27:26
Speaker 1: I do, but having three hundred employees that are depending
27:29
Speaker 1: on a paycheck and then realizing your cash flow is
27:31
Speaker 1: going to stop, you know, that was that was pretty crazy.
27:34
Speaker 2: So I read this in an article in twenty twenty,
27:37
Speaker 2: there were hundreds of new apparel brands launching every single
27:40
Speaker 2: day and venture capital abounds. So Aviator Nation is one
27:44
Speaker 2: of these brands. You have a sixteen year runway and
27:47
Speaker 2: of bootstrapped from the start. I read that the business
27:50
Speaker 2: cleared fifty million to seventy million in sales somewhere in there,
27:54
Speaker 2: and you've seen one hundred percent revenue growth every year
27:56
Speaker 2: since twenty fourteen. I think there are a lot of
27:59
Speaker 2: people who listen to this podcast who are self starters
28:02
Speaker 2: and would love to hear three things that you attribute
28:06
Speaker 2: to the growth and success of the brand.
28:08
Speaker 1: So I think specifically one thing that I have done
28:12
Speaker 1: that is difficult at times to do, but is really
28:16
Speaker 1: stay true to what made the brand awesome from day one.
28:21
Speaker 1: So like, whatever it is that makes your brand great,
28:24
Speaker 1: don't lose that, you know, don't lose that five years
28:27
Speaker 1: in when stores are telling you, oh, you got to
28:30
Speaker 1: do you got to do Navy because everyone's doing navy
28:33
Speaker 1: and you've got to do you know. I remember someone
28:36
Speaker 1: told me, oh, you got to put good vibes only
28:38
Speaker 1: on a T shirt. That's what everyone's doing right now.
28:40
Speaker 1: It's like a joke between me and my friends because
28:42
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you kidding me? Good vibes only. I'm
28:44
Speaker 1: not putting that on a T shirt. Like there's like
28:45
Speaker 1: twenty five of those for sale down the street, and
28:48
Speaker 1: like you still see it all the time, good vibes only,
28:50
Speaker 1: you know. But it's like you can't just listen to people,
28:53
Speaker 1: you know, you can't just become with the I mean,
28:55
Speaker 1: I don't look at trend reports ever. I'm probably the
28:58
Speaker 1: only fashion designer that doesn't. I like completely ignore, you know,
29:03
Speaker 1: what people are telling me I need to do or
29:05
Speaker 1: what's cool or whatever. You know, I really just stay
29:07
Speaker 1: true to, you know, to what I personally want to do,
29:13
Speaker 1: and because that was what I would did in the
29:15
Speaker 1: beginning and it worked, and so now I have to
29:17
Speaker 1: force myself to It's like now I have a lot
29:19
Speaker 1: more resources and a lot more people telling me like
29:21
Speaker 1: what to do or what's cool or whatever, but I
29:23
Speaker 1: just ignore them, you know, I really I have to,
29:25
Speaker 1: because you have to stay true to yourself. And I
29:27
Speaker 1: think that goes with any kind of brand that someone
29:29
Speaker 1: would be starting. Is like don't forget, you know. And
29:33
Speaker 1: and another thing that's interesting though, is like you have
29:35
Speaker 1: to also evolve, so you know, like the combination of
29:39
Speaker 1: like staying true to yourself, but also evolving at the
29:42
Speaker 1: same time is super critical and so learning how to
29:45
Speaker 1: do that is tricky. And you know, for me, the
29:48
Speaker 1: way that I have done it is I continue to
29:50
Speaker 1: come out with new product, but I don't just come
29:53
Speaker 1: out with the product that everyone is doing, you know.
29:56
Speaker 1: I come out with stuff that's really, you know, true
29:59
Speaker 1: to me and true to in our nation and original.
30:01
Speaker 1: And so you have to evolve at the same time.
30:04
Speaker 1: You can't just sell the same product forever, you know,
30:06
Speaker 1: you have to come out with new ways of doing
30:09
Speaker 1: it or whatever. So I think that that's made me
30:12
Speaker 1: successful as really. I mean, we do new product drops
30:15
Speaker 1: like every two or three weeks now, I mean, it's crazy,
30:17
Speaker 1: and I think that that is really important with our
30:19
Speaker 1: growth because everyone eventually is going to have, you know,
30:23
Speaker 1: the five stripe puddie or you know, the hoodie that
30:25
Speaker 1: I've done since day one. But you know, like when
30:28
Speaker 1: I come up with the Tiger collection, they're like, oh yeah,
30:31
Speaker 1: like that's super rad and different and whatever, and that
30:33
Speaker 1: keeps people excited. And so that's true to me because
30:36
Speaker 1: I'm very random and I love tigers and I grew
30:39
Speaker 1: up with tigers all over my bedroom, you know, I
30:40
Speaker 1: love tigers, and so it was true to me to
30:43
Speaker 1: do that. But it also, you know, showed a lot
30:45
Speaker 1: of evolution and it kept people excited. You know, You've
30:49
Speaker 1: got to keep people excited, because especially in fashion. I mean,
30:52
Speaker 1: if you're in fashion, like it's so difficult because everyone's
30:55
Speaker 1: always looking for like the new thing, you know, and
30:58
Speaker 1: so to keep buying the same brain and it just
31:00
Speaker 1: doesn't line up in the fashion world, you know. So
31:03
Speaker 1: another thing that I did that I think helped with
31:06
Speaker 1: the growth was was I connect with the customers. You know,
31:09
Speaker 1: Like my whole strategy with marketing is to take a
31:13
Speaker 1: super personal approach and do events and open stores and
31:17
Speaker 1: cities where I think, you know, I'm meeting customers that
31:20
Speaker 1: are important to the brand and stuff like that, and
31:22
Speaker 1: I try to connect with as many customers as I can.
31:25
Speaker 1: I try to get my team out there, you know.
31:27
Speaker 1: I send people around to do festivals and different things
31:31
Speaker 1: where I feel like my customers might be so that
31:32
Speaker 1: they can then meet people on the team and feel
31:35
Speaker 1: connected to the brand, you know. And I think that
31:37
Speaker 1: when you feel connected to something, you know, you want
31:40
Speaker 1: to support it. And we have this huge loyal following
31:43
Speaker 1: that you know, all started really because I was making
31:47
Speaker 1: clothes in Venice, California, and then I opened my first
31:51
Speaker 1: door on abbot Kinny in Venice, California, like a couple
31:54
Speaker 1: of blocks down from where I was making the clothes
31:55
Speaker 1: in my garage, and all my neighbors knew the story,
31:58
Speaker 1: you know, they knew I was making those clothes in
32:01
Speaker 1: my garage and then selling them on the street, so
32:03
Speaker 1: they felt super connected to the brand. And then you know,
32:07
Speaker 1: of course they wanted to support the brand because they
32:09
Speaker 1: were my neighbors, they knew who I was. And so
32:11
Speaker 1: I think that opening these stores in these different communities,
32:15
Speaker 1: you know, has created that in a lot of ways,
32:17
Speaker 1: because the people in those communities feel connected to the
32:19
Speaker 1: brand the same way my fans did in Venice when
32:21
Speaker 1: I was starting. And we do a lot of community events,
32:24
Speaker 1: and we support local artists and we support other local
32:28
Speaker 1: companies so that we can really build the community. And yeah,
32:31
Speaker 1: I would say that's probably another factor that really plays
32:34
Speaker 1: to the growth, because if you can keep people loyal,
32:36
Speaker 1: and they're not just loyal, but they love the brand,
32:38
Speaker 1: they love to talk about it, and so then they're
32:40
Speaker 1: going to talk about it and then their friends are
32:42
Speaker 1: going to get to know it. So it's like this natural,
32:44
Speaker 1: organic thing that I've been able to establish, and I
32:47
Speaker 1: think that's super critical if you could really connect with
32:50
Speaker 1: your customers.
32:51
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that you mentioned community events so
32:54
Speaker 2: much because now with social media money, brands take a
32:59
Speaker 2: connectivity of coach but online. And I'm hearing you really
33:02
Speaker 2: talk about in person, live, face to face connection. It
33:06
Speaker 2: still sounds very important to you.
33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I'm not really into the digital event thing,
33:13
Speaker 1: you know. I'm all about live and being in person,
33:16
Speaker 1: face to face. And you know, I learned that when
33:19
Speaker 1: I started opening stores because what I like to do
33:22
Speaker 1: is I like to personally be involved in the store.
33:24
Speaker 1: I love to paint murals on the walls, and I
33:27
Speaker 1: feel like I have to live in the city that
33:29
Speaker 1: I'm building the store to understand how to build that store.
33:31
Speaker 1: Like I wanted to always celebrate the community that it's in.
33:34
Speaker 1: So my theory, you know, was like, Okay, move to
33:37
Speaker 1: the place where I'm opening a store, live there for
33:40
Speaker 1: like a month, then start building it, because then you're like, oh,
33:43
Speaker 1: Like like I learned when I was in Hawaii on
33:46
Speaker 1: the North Shore that Bob Marley was like a huge
33:49
Speaker 1: influence there, and like in Hawaii, like Bob Marley is
33:52
Speaker 1: like a superhero, and so I would have never known
33:54
Speaker 1: that had I not hung out, lived on the North Shore,
33:57
Speaker 1: met local surfers, learned like what they respect in the
34:01
Speaker 1: music community. And so when I built the store, I
34:03
Speaker 1: put a Bob Marley quote on the wall and I
34:05
Speaker 1: painted it, and you know, so then when people come
34:07
Speaker 1: in there, they're like, oh, Bob Marley, you know, like
34:09
Speaker 1: they feel that connection. And I would have never known
34:13
Speaker 1: that without living there, and so, you know, doing that
34:16
Speaker 1: and realizing how cool it is. You know, like if
34:18
Speaker 1: I'm painting a mural on a wall and someone comes
34:20
Speaker 1: in that's a local business owner or somebody that lives
34:23
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, and they're like, oh my god, like
34:25
Speaker 1: your page, like you started a via internation, you're here
34:28
Speaker 1: painting the walls. I'm like, yeah, I'm like I love
34:30
Speaker 1: this city, Like I want to spend time here, Like
34:32
Speaker 1: why would I not, you know, like, I love the town.
34:35
Speaker 1: I'm opening a store here, so I might as well
34:36
Speaker 1: live here for a little while. And they love it,
34:39
Speaker 1: you know, they love it, and then I get to
34:40
Speaker 1: know them, and then I get to talk to them
34:42
Speaker 1: and I'm like, so, what do you guys need? Like,
34:43
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you know, back in the seventies
34:45
Speaker 1: we used to all get together and have barbecues in
34:47
Speaker 1: the parking lot. We never do that anymore. Like in
34:49
Speaker 1: the retail business. I was like, well, let's do that,
34:52
Speaker 1: you know. So like learning what they need and what
34:55
Speaker 1: they want, you know, it's kind of like I come in,
34:57
Speaker 1: I learn about what's going on there, and then I
34:59
Speaker 1: try to create something that kind of gives back to them.
35:02
Speaker 1: And so doing that, I realized how powerful that is.
35:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you cannot do that digitally.
35:07
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I'm hearing you talk a lot about culture,
35:10
Speaker 2: I think, but also you've created this happy culture within
35:15
Speaker 2: your company. Did you read like books about becoming an
35:18
Speaker 2: entrepreneur or how did you decide what your philosophy on
35:23
Speaker 2: company culture was going to be?
35:25
Speaker 1: You know, I think that I learned it by trial
35:28
Speaker 1: and error. You know, I think that I learned early
35:31
Speaker 1: on because in the beginning, you know, I didn't have
35:33
Speaker 1: a huge I didn't have big budget. I was bootstrapping everything.
35:36
Speaker 1: So I hired a couple interns and then I taught
35:38
Speaker 1: them things, and I learned that the more the people
35:42
Speaker 1: working for me are doing the actual you know, like
35:46
Speaker 1: every little detail of the job. Like the more passionate
35:49
Speaker 1: they are about their job, you know, like it's not
35:51
Speaker 1: like you come in and you just do one thing.
35:53
Speaker 1: At Aviator Nation, you really help everybody out and you
35:57
Speaker 1: learn things that you wouldn't think, you know, you were
35:59
Speaker 1: going to learn. And and it's kind of funny, but
36:02
Speaker 1: like I think that from an early point on, you know,
36:05
Speaker 1: I learned that if we're doing it ourself, if like
36:08
Speaker 1: say we want to paint the office green, you know,
36:11
Speaker 1: instead of hiring a painter, I tell the office kids
36:14
Speaker 1: to paint it. You know, so like you know, we do,
36:17
Speaker 1: we do everything, and so I think that seeing the
36:20
Speaker 1: reaction to that, which is basically building confidence and all
36:23
Speaker 1: these young kids and then they see how much they
36:26
Speaker 1: love doing stuff and like, you know, I saw how
36:30
Speaker 1: impactful that was to their lives and they're just general
36:33
Speaker 1: livelihood of like oh yeah, I painted that store. Oh yeah,
36:36
Speaker 1: you know, I packed all those orders during our big sale,
36:40
Speaker 1: you know, like I was a big part of it.
36:42
Speaker 1: And you know, so I've really tried to use my
36:44
Speaker 1: in house team to build things and to be part
36:48
Speaker 1: of major projects, and I think that's a big part
36:50
Speaker 1: of it. We do a lot of big festivals and events,
36:52
Speaker 1: so we travel together a lot. And I think when
36:54
Speaker 1: you travel with the people that you work with, you
36:58
Speaker 1: get really closer to them. So I try to get
37:00
Speaker 1: people out of the office, you know, I try to
37:02
Speaker 1: give them a more well rounded experience rather than just
37:05
Speaker 1: sitting at a desk all the time. And another thing,
37:08
Speaker 1: you know, I really I learned early on that working
37:12
Speaker 1: with people I want to be friends with is like huge,
37:16
Speaker 1: you know. I learned that because I it was funny
37:19
Speaker 1: at first I hired interns and whatever, and then I
37:22
Speaker 1: got to a point where, you know, someone told me
37:24
Speaker 1: I should probably hire more experienced people, you know, So
37:26
Speaker 1: I did that, and it backfired on me like big time,
37:29
Speaker 1: because people that come in with a lot of experience often,
37:34
Speaker 1: you know, don't they don't have like the respect of
37:36
Speaker 1: the rest of the people that have been there and stuff.
37:38
Speaker 1: And so I had this like really aha moment when
37:42
Speaker 1: I saw people that I cared about, you know, not
37:45
Speaker 1: really being excited about my new hire that had all
37:48
Speaker 1: this experience, and how that could kind of backfire on me.
37:51
Speaker 1: And so I said, you know what, screw it. I'm
37:52
Speaker 1: not going to hire people with experience anymore. Everyone is
37:55
Speaker 1: going to start at the beginning here and they're going
37:57
Speaker 1: to work their way up. And they have. I mean
37:59
Speaker 1: every single employee I have. I mean the sewers and stuff,
38:03
Speaker 1: you know, is a kind of different animal. But as
38:05
Speaker 1: far as the retail world of headquarters and like all
38:07
Speaker 1: the office people, I mean almost every single one of
38:09
Speaker 1: them started at the store level, working on the sales
38:12
Speaker 1: floor selling the clothes, whether they had experience or not.
38:16
Speaker 1: I was like, you're starting here and then you're gonna
38:18
Speaker 1: you're gonna work your way up, and they have. And
38:20
Speaker 1: so the people running major things right now either started
38:23
Speaker 1: as an intern or started on the sales floor, and
38:27
Speaker 1: you know, so they have this like understanding of the
38:29
Speaker 1: customer and they have a real connection to the brand,
38:33
Speaker 1: you know, because they've really been you know, in the
38:35
Speaker 1: trenches at the at that base level, and they've helped
38:39
Speaker 1: me build stores in some aspects, and they've helped me
38:42
Speaker 1: develop departments and you know, all kinds of stuff. But
38:45
Speaker 1: everyone started, like literally at the at the ground level.
38:48
Speaker 2: Why don't companies care about happiness more? It seems like
38:52
Speaker 2: a no brainer to me.
38:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that for me, you know,
38:56
Speaker 1: it's just so obvious that you're going to do better
38:59
Speaker 1: work if you love what you're doing. And it's a
39:02
Speaker 1: question I ask employees all the time, I say, are
39:04
Speaker 1: you happy? Do you like what you're doing? And I
39:07
Speaker 1: wanted to build a brand that allowed for people to
39:10
Speaker 1: kind of shift all over the place if they need to.
39:12
Speaker 1: So I mean I pretty much tell my employees, like, look,
39:14
Speaker 1: you can do anything you want here, Like all you
39:16
Speaker 1: have to do is prove to me that you're good
39:18
Speaker 1: at it and you're the right person for the job
39:20
Speaker 1: and tell me you want it, you know, and I'll
39:22
Speaker 1: give you a try. And you know, I think that
39:24
Speaker 1: listening to your employees more instead of telling them what
39:28
Speaker 1: to do is so critical, you know, because we all
39:32
Speaker 1: I mean, like, first of all, the brand wouldn't be
39:33
Speaker 1: what it is if I wasn't true to myself. So
39:36
Speaker 1: how should I think my employees shouldn't be true to themselves?
39:38
Speaker 1: You know, Like they should be telling me what they want,
39:40
Speaker 1: what they enjoy, what they're good at, or what they
39:43
Speaker 1: want to learn, you know. And I like to give
39:45
Speaker 1: people chances to do things, and when they prove themselves,
39:49
Speaker 1: they create the job that they want, you know, and
39:51
Speaker 1: I think that drives happiness and along with you know,
39:54
Speaker 1: I like to hire people that I'm friends with. I
39:56
Speaker 1: mean I actually personally approve every single hire at Aviator Nation.
40:00
Speaker 1: Don't hire people that I don't think will get along
40:03
Speaker 1: with everyone. I really a couple of big things I
40:06
Speaker 1: look for as attitude and hard work ethic. You know,
40:10
Speaker 1: if someone complains a lot or is negative, like, there's
40:14
Speaker 1: no place for that. We have like quotes on the
40:16
Speaker 1: wall and stuff. It's like basically like you know, if
40:19
Speaker 1: you're not happy, go home, like you know, like basically
40:22
Speaker 1: you have to be happy. Like everyone has shit that
40:24
Speaker 1: they deal with, so don't bring it to work. I mean,
40:26
Speaker 1: when you have this many employees, there's always going to
40:28
Speaker 1: be somebody that just broke up with a girlfriend or
40:31
Speaker 1: is having problems with their parents or health issues or
40:34
Speaker 1: there's always going to be something. So I kind of
40:36
Speaker 1: just tell my people, I say, look, like, leave it
40:38
Speaker 1: at home. This is your safe place. This is your
40:40
Speaker 1: place for fun. This is where you come to listen
40:43
Speaker 1: to good music. We always have music playing everywhere. I'm like,
40:46
Speaker 1: this is where you come to listen to good music.
40:48
Speaker 1: Do fun stuff, create things, and have the job that
40:50
Speaker 1: you want, you know, and work with your friends and
40:53
Speaker 1: we've all the whole staff is like a family. We
40:56
Speaker 1: call it a family because we really are. I mean,
40:58
Speaker 1: we all love each other, that we care about each other.
41:01
Speaker 1: A lot of them live together, hang out all the time.
41:04
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of in sessual because they're all
41:07
Speaker 1: like super good friends. But that's what I want. You know,
41:10
Speaker 1: I have a lot of siblings that work for me too.
41:12
Speaker 1: I'm all about hiring people's friends or their brothers or
41:15
Speaker 1: their sisters or whatever, and it really feels like a family.
41:18
Speaker 2: I want to touch on your sibling because we talked
41:20
Speaker 2: about your brother briefly, but I did not know this
41:23
Speaker 2: about you. Guys. Twenty years ago, prior to both of
41:25
Speaker 2: you launching your businesses, you both applied to be on Survivor,
41:29
Speaker 2: which really scares me. But do you remember what you
41:33
Speaker 2: did in your video? Because I guess the CBS execs
41:36
Speaker 2: saw it and then put you on Amazing Race.
41:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember what I did. I snowboarded in a
41:41
Speaker 1: snowstorm and a bikini.
41:43
Speaker 2: Ah, that's so epic.
41:45
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I need to do something that's
41:47
Speaker 1: going to like be a little bit of a wow factor,
41:51
Speaker 1: and so I thought, you know that I needed to
41:53
Speaker 1: show that I was a little crazy and a little tough,
41:55
Speaker 1: and you know, I was twenty years old and I was,
41:58
Speaker 1: you know, like, so I put on this light pink
42:00
Speaker 1: bikini or something and like literally snowboarded the whole mountain
42:03
Speaker 1: in a snowstorm and I had someone film it. So
42:05
Speaker 1: it was like I was just tearing it up. I
42:07
Speaker 1: wasn't just cruising. I was like ripping in a bikini,
42:10
Speaker 1: and you know, it worked. But yeah, that was my
42:14
Speaker 1: three minute video that I like totally sent into CBS
42:17
Speaker 1: like everyone else.
42:18
Speaker 2: That's amazing. I'm curious as to what your experience was
42:21
Speaker 2: like on reality TV because when you watched it back,
42:24
Speaker 2: you seem like somebody.
42:25
Speaker 1: You know.
42:25
Speaker 2: At the beginning of the interview, you said, you're always yourself,
42:27
Speaker 2: You're in alignment. So when you watched yourself back on TV,
42:31
Speaker 2: what were the takeaways? Were there any cringe moments? Did
42:33
Speaker 2: you learn anything about yourself?
42:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an interesting deal to watch it. I
42:38
Speaker 1: actually realized that I really cared about my brother a lot,
42:44
Speaker 1: and that I was super I was a nice person
42:48
Speaker 1: and I kept it really cool. I actually surprised myself
42:51
Speaker 1: a little bit because you know, there were moments that
42:54
Speaker 1: I remember feeling like really stressed in that race. There's
42:59
Speaker 1: a lot of things people know about that show, like
43:01
Speaker 1: they don't realize, especially in the early days we were
43:03
Speaker 1: on it, like we were second season, and you know,
43:06
Speaker 1: the show didn't have a huge budget, so it's like
43:08
Speaker 1: we were literally going days with like hardly sleeping, not
43:11
Speaker 1: eating anything, you know, like super kind of stressful environment.
43:15
Speaker 1: And I watched myself and I really kept it cool,
43:18
Speaker 1: and there were other people on the show that didn't,
43:20
Speaker 1: you know, there were lots of people on the show
43:22
Speaker 1: that you know, got mad at each other and gotten
43:25
Speaker 1: fights and just broke down. And I saw myself keeping
43:29
Speaker 1: it really cool, and I was like, you know what,
43:31
Speaker 1: that's how I want to be, you know, I want
43:32
Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm always that way, like, you know,
43:35
Speaker 1: because I like the person that I'm watching on the show,
43:38
Speaker 1: you know. And that was eye opening for me because
43:41
Speaker 1: I was young, you know, like so experiencing the difference
43:45
Speaker 1: of like what grown adults or whatever can be like
43:48
Speaker 1: compared to me keeping it cool and having a lot
43:51
Speaker 1: of patients because we screwed up a lot, but I
43:53
Speaker 1: had patients, and I knew that it wasn't the time
43:56
Speaker 1: to break down. I just saw that about myself, and
43:58
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's like to like watch yourself, you know,
44:01
Speaker 1: from like yeah, like oh, like that's what I did. Okay,
44:04
Speaker 1: Like I like that or I don't like that. And
44:07
Speaker 1: I felt very proud of how I handle myself on
44:09
Speaker 1: that show, because like we lost all our money at
44:12
Speaker 1: one point and we were like, you know, totally screwed
44:14
Speaker 1: and we had to beg for money, which was awful,
44:17
Speaker 1: and I was just like, you know what this is,
44:19
Speaker 1: this is what has to happen. This is what we
44:21
Speaker 1: have to do to survive right now. And I kept
44:23
Speaker 1: it cool and I try to do that now and
44:25
Speaker 1: I tell myself that all the time. It's like, you know,
44:29
Speaker 1: stuff is always going to happen. You know, you're gonna
44:31
Speaker 1: have shit hit the fan, especially in the fashion world.
44:34
Speaker 1: I mean it's like every day there's some major thing
44:37
Speaker 1: and I and I do I keep it cool. I
44:39
Speaker 1: just say, Okay, how do we solve it? Like, let's
44:41
Speaker 1: figure it out. And you have to move forward because
44:42
Speaker 1: there's not enough energy in the day to get super
44:46
Speaker 1: pissed off about things.
44:48
Speaker 2: Do you see a big difference in the way you
44:51
Speaker 2: operate Aviator Nation versus how your brother operates Tom's or
44:55
Speaker 2: do you find yourself as like similar leaders.
44:57
Speaker 1: I think we're both incredibly positive people. I think that
45:01
Speaker 1: that is obviously something that we must have gotten from
45:04
Speaker 1: our upbringing. I mean, we have amazing parents that are
45:06
Speaker 1: super positive, and there's a lot of similarity between us
45:12
Speaker 1: about that, and I think that we also have a
45:15
Speaker 1: lot of passion for what we do. And it's funny.
45:19
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know about any Agraham. I
45:20
Speaker 1: actually got into the whole aneagram thing, but Blake and
45:23
Speaker 1: I are the same number. We're both sevens and I
45:27
Speaker 1: learned that this year and I can really identify with
45:29
Speaker 1: him in so many ways. But being super positive, being
45:33
Speaker 1: a great leader, you know, really caring about the people
45:36
Speaker 1: that work for you, those are all things that we
45:38
Speaker 1: have in common, and I think that that definitely served
45:41
Speaker 1: us both. I mean, as far as Tom's and Aviatornation,
45:44
Speaker 1: it's very different business, you know. I Mean, his strategy
45:47
Speaker 1: has always been to obviously give away as many shoes
45:50
Speaker 1: as possible and make this like giant impact on the
45:53
Speaker 1: world from a giving standpoint, and so you know, his
45:56
Speaker 1: market is much bigger than mine, you know. I mean,
45:59
Speaker 1: I'm definitely a little bit more of a niche market,
46:01
Speaker 1: you know, less stores, less employees, less product in general,
46:05
Speaker 1: so it's definitely different. But he was really driven by,
46:09
Speaker 1: you know, the giving thing. I think that I would say,
46:12
Speaker 1: I'm super driven by the product. You know, I'm really
46:14
Speaker 1: passionate about the actual product and the quality of the product,
46:17
Speaker 1: and not that he's not. I mean, his product's great,
46:20
Speaker 1: quality is great, but you know, that kind of drives me.
46:23
Speaker 1: Is like giving the market, you know, a garment that
46:26
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, whereas his is more of like this whole
46:29
Speaker 1: like making sure children have shoes and stuff, which is amazing.
46:32
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we're very very
46:34
Speaker 1: similar people, and the way that we run our teams
46:37
Speaker 1: and the way that we have built our companies is
46:39
Speaker 1: very similar in the in the aspect of just like
46:42
Speaker 1: being super positive and just driven and energy and passion.
46:47
Speaker 2: A lot of sevens are perfectionists and a lot of
46:50
Speaker 2: them are entrepreneurial. So it's interesting that you're both seven.
46:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got right on. Anybody that has not read
46:56
Speaker 1: The Road Back to You or any of the Enneagram
46:59
Speaker 1: Wisdom Book, I mean, I would strongly recommend it changed
47:03
Speaker 1: my life. Having more self awareness by learning that, you know,
47:07
Speaker 1: I was a seven and learning how to live as
47:11
Speaker 1: that number has been super awesome for me.
47:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually learned about it this year. I'm a nine,
47:17
Speaker 2: and it was really enlightening to kind of like read
47:20
Speaker 2: about yourself, you know, totally. So at this point in
47:23
Speaker 2: your journey, what are you most proud of?
47:27
Speaker 1: I think that I'm really proud of the product. I
47:30
Speaker 1: feel like the product has evolved so much, and I
47:34
Speaker 1: feel like every single year the product continues to get better.
47:37
Speaker 1: Outerwear is a huge thing that I'm really proud of
47:40
Speaker 1: because I've always loved jackets, and I really believe that
47:43
Speaker 1: I've created the best jacket in the world. And so,
47:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I absolutely love our outerwear program. And so
47:50
Speaker 1: I would say I'm super proud of the product and
47:52
Speaker 1: the development of the product. And I'm really proud of
47:56
Speaker 1: our loyal following, you know. I think it's awesome that
47:58
Speaker 1: I have people that truly love the brand. I mean,
48:01
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, my following pretty much saved our company,
48:04
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I had obviously they continue to
48:07
Speaker 1: shop online and take care of us, and so many
48:10
Speaker 1: people reached out and gave me these nice letters, and
48:12
Speaker 1: a lot of my employees even sent me nice letters,
48:15
Speaker 1: and so I feel very proud of what I call
48:18
Speaker 1: the Aviator nation, which is the people that love the
48:20
Speaker 1: clothes and wear the closed my fans, and then also
48:23
Speaker 1: the people that work for the company. You know, I
48:25
Speaker 1: have amazing employees, and I'm so proud of that team
48:29
Speaker 1: because I worked very closely with them.
48:32
Speaker 2: I do a little rapid fire at the end. Okay,
48:36
Speaker 2: a book that changed your life that you think everyone
48:38
Speaker 2: should read?
48:40
Speaker 1: Probably The Road Back to You? Yeah, the Enneagram.
48:43
Speaker 2: What's the best advice you've ever gotten?
48:45
Speaker 1: Follow your heart by my mom. She told me to
48:48
Speaker 1: follow my heart, and I definitely do that.
48:51
Speaker 2: If you are going to wake up today and build
48:53
Speaker 2: a brand new business, what space would it be.
48:56
Speaker 1: In boutique hotels? I love the boot hotel world, and
49:01
Speaker 1: I just I have so many ideas for creating spaces
49:05
Speaker 1: like that.
49:05
Speaker 2: Very cool. What is your favorite piece of clothing or
49:08
Speaker 2: your favorite trend right now?
49:10
Speaker 1: Oof? I mean, gosh, sweatpants. I mean I love sweatpants.
49:14
Speaker 1: You know I would say that. I would say sweatpants
49:17
Speaker 1: and high top shoes.
49:18
Speaker 2: It's a good look, okay, I made a deck of
49:21
Speaker 2: fifty two cards and I pick one at random every time. Ooh, okay.
49:25
Speaker 2: What moment do you wish you could go back and
49:27
Speaker 2: revel in something that you let pass you by because
49:30
Speaker 2: of life circumstance.
49:31
Speaker 1: Gosh. I think I would go back to my very
49:33
Speaker 1: first store opening, the grand opening, the night of the
49:36
Speaker 1: Abbot Kidney store. I was definitely it was my first store,
49:39
Speaker 1: so I was super like overwhelmed. It was kind of
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Speaker 1: like planning a wedding, you know, like your like all
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Speaker 1: like caught up in it. But I would love to
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Speaker 1: go back to that moment and just take it all
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Speaker 1: in a little bit more because I look at the
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Speaker 1: pictures often and I'm like, Wow, that was an awesome night,
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Speaker 1: but it would be fun to relive it.
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Speaker 2: And last question, what is the smartest decision you've ever made? Wow?
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Speaker 1: Gosh, that's a tough one. I would probably say keeping
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Speaker 1: it in America, making the clothes in America, and never
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Speaker 1: swaying from that, because I mean, I could make so
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Speaker 1: much more money if I made it overseas, and I've
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Speaker 1: had lots of opportunities to do that. People try to
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Speaker 1: get me to do that, but I've always said no,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to do it here.
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Speaker 2: That's so cool. Thank you, Paige. I loved getting to
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Speaker 2: know you. All right, today's a good day to have
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Speaker 2: a good day. I'll see you next week