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From Federal Prison to a Piano: Jason Made Turns a Nightmare Into Music | Jason Pears · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:00
  I think the most important lesson I've learned is that you
• 0:03
  cannot defy your purpose. Your purpose is sort of written
• 0:07
  in stone, All right? How you integrate that into your
• 0:11
  life, how you get there, how long it takes you to get there,
• 0:15
  it's all up to you. But you're going to have to
• 0:19
  confront your purpose. And so for some of us, we have
• 0:22
  to do that in a prison environment.
• 0:24
  And that's, that's a better alternative than never
• 0:27
  confronting it and then getting to the end of your life and
• 0:30
  going, wow, I never did the thing I knew I, I felt in my
• 0:33
  heart I needed to do. And so to me, my biggest take
• 0:36
  away is that your purpose matters and you need to honor it
• 0:41
  and not to let your fear stop you from doing the thing that
• 0:45
  feels best for you, even if you don't know how that it's going
• 0:49
  to work out. Do it and I think what happens
• 0:53
  when your worst fear becomes your reality.
• 0:55
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the nightmare Success
• 0:58
  in and out podcast where we explore how to overcome your
• 1:01
  fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
• 1:04
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 1:06
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 1:11
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
• 1:14
  There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
• 1:17
  a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
• 1:20
  prisons you've built up in your own mind.
• 1:22
  All right, welcome back nightmare success.
• 1:24
  And now, listeners, this is where you come from.
• 1:25
  What happens when your worst year becomes your reality?
• 1:27
  How do you adapt, survive, overcome, set yourself free.
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  And folks, don't forget, don't forget to follow, subscribe,
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  share this thing out, like it up, comment.
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  It helps the show and I, I really, really appreciate it.
• 1:40
  So who are we talking to today on Nightmare Success?
• 1:45
  Well, today's interview is about a man who walked into federal
• 1:48
  prison with a sentence and walked out with a soundtrack.
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  My guest today is Jason Peers. Is it peers or peers?
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  Peers. Peers OK, I said it right.
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  I don't know. I don't usually do that.
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  Jason, it's fine, but he's artistically known as Jason made
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  grew up in Fairhope, AL, shaped by gospel music and the Southern
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  church. That ambition mixed with
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  financial pressure led to a 1.2 million PPP fraud case with a 30
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  month federal sentence. For most people, prison would
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  silence the music. But inside federal prison Camp
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  Pensacola, Jason found something unexpected.
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  Chapel piano, spiral notebook, and a decision that this
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  nightmare would not be the end of his story.
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  Over the course of his sentence, he wrote more than 40 original
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  songs, transforming pain, uncertainty and the chaos of the
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  first step back into art. Now he's out, he's releasing his
• 2:44
  debut EP, Go Down, Go Lay Down, and sharing the very notebook
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  that helped save his life. And I also want to give a shout
• 2:53
  out to John Warren and and Brian Newton, who helped connect all
• 2:58
  of us together. So it's great that we will do
• 3:01
  that. Before we jump into this story,
• 3:04
  I want to give a shout out to Auto Plaza Direct, our show
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  Telling Brent from nightmare success.
• 3:39
  Since folks, I want to share with you a powerful and moving
• 3:42
  new book you won't want to miss. My name is Saffron Voices
• 3:46
  silenced, stifled, and Taken away by author Saffron
• 3:49
  Gustafson. This isn't just a story.
• 3:51
  It's a journey through resilient survival and reclaiming your
• 3:54
  voice after being silenced for far too long.
• 3:56
  Saffron's story takes you inside.
• 3:58
  The hidden struggles, the pain and ultimately the triumph are
• 4:00
  refusing to be defined by circumstances.
• 4:03
  As Safran was putting the finishing touches on her book,
• 4:06
  The Prison, she had just been released from Federal Dublin.
• 4:08
  FCI was permanently closed because of sexual abuse of the
• 4:11
  women prisoners. If you've ever wondered what it
• 4:14
  takes to rise from the darkness of places, to find your truth
• 4:17
  and to speak it boldly, this book will inspire you.
• 4:21
  Pick up your copy of My Name is Safran Today, available now on
• 4:25
  Amazon or wherever books are sold.
• 4:27
  Trust me, you'll be moved, challenged and changed by her
• 4:30
  story. Jason Beers, how are you doing?
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  Pretty good, how you doing? It's good to have you, good to
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  have you, good to be here. So man, you wrote a lot.
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  You wrote a lot of music. A lot of music and a spiral
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  notebook. Which, yeah, which is I was not
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  expecting, but that's what happened.
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  You I don't think you were expecting, but you know, if if
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  you I read your bio background, you were kind of all around
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  music growing up in Alabama, kind of bring us back there your
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  family life as a kid. So I grew up and, and am sitting
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  right now in Fairhope, AL, which is, I mean, it's not a famous
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  place, I wouldn't say, but it has, it has kind of garnered
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  some lore and you know, of its own because it's a very small,
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  quaint town on the on Mobile Bay.
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  And people like to kind of vacation here and retire and
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  that sort of thing. But as a kid, most of my days
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  were kind of like spent lazily walking around with my cousins
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  and that kind of thing. But I was one of the I was
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  probably the only kid in my little universe that could not
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  be pulled away from a piano. And so that you.
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  Taught you how to do a piano. You taught you a piano.
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  And nobody. Nobody.
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  That's the thing about. Yourself.
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  Yeah, yeah. You kind of what happens is you
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  show a little bit of interest and then if you're in a church
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  environment, people just sort of push you toward the piano.
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  You know, it doesn't happen so much now, but then, you know,
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  you would just be told like, oh, you should go and sit there with
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  the whoever's playing and just watch them.
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  So that's kind of what happened with me.
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  And by the time I was 10 years old, I replaced the, the
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  musician at the church. And I don't think she was very
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  pleased about that, but that's what happened.
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  And I started recording songs there, you know, at the church,
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  like I would go, the pastor gave me the key to go into the church
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  because he was like, you got to, you know, you just have to keep
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  practicing to get better. And so I would do that.
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  And I, I learned how to use the tape deck there.
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  And I started overdubbing songs and writing songs then all the
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  way back then. And, you know, I was just kind
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  of like, I just became known as that kid who can play the piano.
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  So that's really where I got started at church.
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  And that has been really, I think the the most powerful,
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  like seed for me, just being able to kind of do that sort of
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  work there where there are a bunch of people around you
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  encourage you to do it. It's a lot of because now it's
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  like basically everybody I know goes who says, oh, I I should
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  have like stayed with the piano. And I'm like, yeah, you should
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  have. You should have done it.
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  It would pay me a dividends. Yeah.
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  So you, you spend a lot of time, you know, your grandmother
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  family. How does life progress for you?
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  So there was a SO when I was about 16 or so, I went and
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  auditioned for a record label in out of Nashville or near
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  Nashville. I don't know exactly now, but
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  they had they were kind of a subsidiary of Sony.
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  I ended up getting an offer and signed to to like a development
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  deal at the time, which I didn't.
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  He was 16. Years old at that.
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  Time at the time, which I didn't really pursue because I came
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  back home and just didn't really record anything.
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  It never really happened in that way because there was a sense
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  that they were trying to make me record songs that I just like.
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  I don't think that's that's not for me.
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  So I started writing. I just kept writing my own stuff
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  and at some point one of the people there kind of got in
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  touch. I was like, so how are, you
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  know, how are things going? I was like, well, I've been
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  writing songs and I ended up just sending them some of the
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  demo tapes that I'd made and they're like, oh, these are
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  good. Well, you know, maybe you should
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  just write songs for other people.
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  And so eventually I kind of delve into that world a little
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  bit. I went to Los Angeles around 19
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  or so and did some ghost writing for people and did OK, made some
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  connections with that. But it never really clicked with
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  me that music was, I don't know why, I can't even tell you why,
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  but it never really clicked for me.
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  That music was the driving force of my life.
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  I just could not see it in that way.
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  I just thought, oh, this is something I can do easily, so,
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  you know, I'll just do it. And that's, I think maybe that's
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  a lot of people's experience with whatever feels natural to
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  them. There was A and I can't, I can't
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  remember where it is in your lifeline and you're when you're
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  young, but you were in a bad car accident.
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  Yeah. Left you out of school for about
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  a year, right? Yeah, that, that, yeah, that's
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  probably, that was, that's probably the thing that locked
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  me into that kind of gave me a real sense of being cloistered
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  away because I I was outside and I got run over by a car.
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  Essentially. I was out there with my cousins
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  playing around and I was trying to cross the street and a car
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  comes down the hill and they don't see me kind of crossing
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  behind the ice cream truck, you know, And so they, they hit me.
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  I go flying in the air. I kind of have this like weird
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  out of body experience. I come to, I'm in the hospital.
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  I didn't, I didn't have anything that was broken, but I had lots
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  of kind of soft tissue injuries. And so I was out of school for
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  the rest of the school year and I was at home every day.
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  And my mom went to the Goodwill and she found like a one of
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  those spinning organs, you know, with the little colored clicker
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  keys that changes the. So she found one of those things
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  that was probably like on his last legs, but she she brought
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  it home. And so every day I was there
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  with that little organ and I had a hymn book.
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  And so I was trying to teach myself kind of like how to read
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  the music because obviously I didn't know.
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  But so I, the way I did it is I, I would sit there every day when
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  the kids would go off to school, I would just kind of get on the
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  organ and I knew what the song was supposed to sound like.
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  So I would just find the note and then I would correlate that
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  to the note I saw on the page. And then, you know, I just kept
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  doing that until I could like open a page and just kind of
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  play what I saw. So I did that for, you know,
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  until school was back in and I was able to kind of like get
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  around as well as I was before. And by the time that was that, I
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  was kind of like, I was that kid, you know, that oh, he's
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  like, he can really play the he could really play that thing
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  now. And I don't even know how good I
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  was. But to the other kids, you know
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  I was all right. But you were doing it, and no
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  one else was, so that made a. Difference.
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  That's exactly right. Yeah, I got called on a lot to
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  just kind of go here and there, different functions and sing
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  songs and play piano for people, which did not feel great at the
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  time. But my mom was like, oh, you
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  should do it. So she volunteered me a lot.
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  And, you know, no matter how much you love to do something,
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  if you're a kid, you don't want people wanting you to do it.
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  You know, it's like, I know I'm good at it, but don't tell
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  anybody. So.
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  Yeah. So that was.
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  So that was that. That's kind of, I think that's
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  the thing that sort of at least that time gave me, you know,
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  very much relates to the time I, I ended up spending in Pensacola
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  in a way, because I felt very much the same sense of like
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  focus around music. Like this is what am I going to
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  do with this time that I've got? I'm not able to kind of go out
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  and do anything. So what?
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  How am I going to spend my time, right?
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  Right, because there was nothing else really for you to do, so
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  you focused on that. But I'm sure it also helped you
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  and kind of self learning it yourself also helps you kind of
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  with the notes and playing to be able to write and do songs that
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  I don't know. I mean that that's probably not
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  the normal way that you go about that.
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  But I I bet that is something creatively that helps you kind
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  of open your mind to be able to figure things out as you're
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  putting, you know, lyrics to music to make it all work.
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  So you said you, you, you went out to LA, you did all these
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  different things. Where does that lead you?
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  Well, eventually I left. I left LA at some point.
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  I bounced back in AI, bounced back to Alabama, I bounced back
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  to Orange County. I went to Orange County.
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  I don't know if you what you know about LA, but I went way
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  down to Mission Viejo and I stayed there for a while and I
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  was really just kind of submitting songs, that sort of
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  thing. I was not, I didn't have like a
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  anything specifically that I was doing.
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  So I ended up moving back to Alabama.
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  I don't know how many years later this was, but after I
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  moved back to Alabama, I had the sense that, OK, well, I've got
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  it like something's got to give. This is not going to, this is
• 14:08
  not, I've got to bounce around submitting songs here and there,
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  so I've got to do something. I ended up going to DC and I
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  really enjoyed being in DC. I had like some personal, you
• 14:23
  know, relationship problems that kind of made me focus on myself.
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  So I ended up starting a business in DC which was a a
• 14:31
  bakery. A bakery without a bakery.
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  I had to rent kind of a commercial kitchen.
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  How? Does a guy wait, wait, wait,
• 14:39
  Jason, wait. So how does a guy go from being
• 14:44
  this music guy writing writing music songs into a bakery?
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  It's a great question, but part of the, the part of the why and
• 14:59
  the how is that even after all the time I'd spent in front of a
• 15:05
  piano writing and singing with people, I just did not for some
• 15:10
  reason, I just could not see myself giving into the, to it.
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  I, I don't know, I was running away from it.
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  I thought there's a way to make money in this world.
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  And for me, it's not going to be, you know, making music
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  because music is something I just love to do.
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  And so, you know, I was there and I was there in DC and I,
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  it's like, well, I mean, I, I need, I do need to work.
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  I have to have something to do it.
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  And so I, I started, I started this little kind of bake this
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  thing and it actually took off fairly quickly.
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  Had you, had you done that, like had you done it as a family,
• 15:43
  like baking wise? Not really as a kid I had as a
• 15:48
  fundraiser, like I had like made some no bake cheesecakes, that
• 15:52
  kind of thing as a kid for church and and those, I mean
• 15:58
  those sold. But this was so long ago, you
• 16:00
  know, this was just like something totally different.
• 16:02
  But I, what I, what happened was as I was feeling pretty down on
• 16:06
  myself, you know, there in DC, and I made some cupcakes for
• 16:09
  myself because I just wanted something.
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  And a friend came over and was like, Oh, you know.
• 16:15
  Really good. These are really good.
• 16:16
  You should try to sell these. And he said it and I said, oh,
• 16:20
  maybe I could sell these. And I thought, well, I mean, I
• 16:22
  can't sell a dozen cupcakes. I mean, that's not going to make
• 16:24
  me any money. I thought, well, I'll set up a
• 16:26
  website and we'll see what happens.
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  And I got this really random phone call one day from a lady
• 16:32
  who was organizing a a charity function.
• 16:37
  And she was doing this charity. She was trying to get, she was
• 16:40
  trying to get bakeries to donate cupcakes to raise money for the
• 16:44
  Children's Hospital, OK. And using, well, how hard can
• 16:47
  that be? You know, and I thought she must
• 16:50
  want 1000 cupcakes. How many cupcakes does she want?
• 16:52
  And she's calling all these big bakeries and they're, you know,
• 16:54
  and they're not saying yes. And I said, OK, well, how many
• 16:57
  cupcakes do you need? And she goes, well, I really
• 17:00
  need, you know, 10 dozen. And I thought, well, that's
• 17:03
  that's not very many cupcakes. You mean you tell me these giant
• 17:06
  bakeries won't give you up for the Children's Hospital.
• 17:10
  So I said, it's fine, I'll do it.
• 17:12
  Very Long story short, I did it. It was a big hit because I was
• 17:16
  the only one who decided to like help.
• 17:19
  She ended up making my little baked goods company like this, a
• 17:22
  major sponsor and put us on all of the Children's Hospital
• 17:25
  things. And, you know, and eventually
• 17:28
  the Kennedy Center reached out because they, they had someone,
• 17:32
  a representative there and they needed a new vendor at the
• 17:35
  Kennedy Center. And then, you know, it just kind
• 17:37
  of turned into a thing. I was like, well, would you look
• 17:40
  at that like, you know, just the.
• 17:42
  Opportunity. Yeah, just an opportunity arose.
• 17:45
  And so I took that and I was fine with that and did that for
• 17:48
  a couple years and kind of got burnt out of waking up at 4:00
• 17:53
  in the morning and dealing with bakeries and stuff.
• 17:56
  And I end up selling that business.
• 17:59
  And then I found myself back in Alabama.
• 18:05
  My mom had had a stroke and I just thought I needed to be
• 18:09
  closer to, I just need to be closer.
• 18:13
  And so that's how I kind of decided to plant, you know, more
• 18:18
  of a, you know, it was just like plant more roots here because I,
• 18:23
  I mean, I just figured that made more sense.
• 18:25
  And if I needed to travel, if I decided to do something else, I
• 18:27
  would just do it, which, you know, which I eventually did.
• 18:31
  I, you know, I, I kind of would bounce back to LA here and
• 18:34
  there. If somebody had something they
• 18:36
  were working on or, you know, somebody was doing some music
• 18:38
  stuff and I could have some fun with that, I would go.
• 18:42
  But I just got into real estate, which is how I kind of ended up.
• 18:47
  You know there is Pensacola at Camp Pensacola.
• 18:53
  Well, let's talk about how your nightmare landed on you because
• 18:56
  you know from from this point, you know, from a guy that was
• 19:00
  writing music to, you know, having a bakery, you get into
• 19:04
  real estate. So how does this nightmare land
• 19:05
  on you? OK, so I was, I had a business
• 19:12
  partner who was a in out who was kind of a a long distance
• 19:17
  landlord, someone from California, but who owned who
• 19:20
  owned property in Mobile, AL And I was flipping, I was buying and
• 19:26
  renovating houses in, in Alabama And you know, that was going
• 19:32
  yeah, man, I was going really well.
• 19:34
  And things were really good and we were finding houses and we
• 19:38
  were doing, you know, doing these deals.
• 19:41
  And the pandemic came all right. And if you've ever kind of put
• 19:47
  together a team of contractors and subcontractors, you know
• 19:51
  that the worst thing you can do is like, let them go away for.
• 19:55
  Yeah, because they go find out the word.
• 19:57
  You'll never see them again. So the pandemic came.
• 20:01
  And of course, this opportunity for the PPP loans came up.
• 20:06
  I thought, what better? Well, this will be great.
• 20:07
  I can like, we can like keep these people on payroll.
• 20:12
  And I called it my business partner.
• 20:14
  I said, I think this is the right thing to do.
• 20:16
  This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to, I'm going to do
• 20:18
  this PPP thing and we're going to make it.
• 20:20
  We're going to make it happen. We'll just keep, we'll just keep
• 20:22
  everybody going. The problem was like we had no
• 20:25
  idea. You know, it's been, so it's
• 20:28
  been a number of years now, but it, there was a sense of like,
• 20:31
  we don't know what is going to happen.
• 20:33
  Like I don't know how long this is going to go on.
• 20:37
  At the time, it felt kind of like one of those those never
• 20:41
  ending stories. I remember getting a line at the
• 20:44
  Home Depot, you know, at what, where they had all these kind of
• 20:47
  only central working orders and stuff and there was a line and
• 20:50
  they were only letting 10 people into a Home Depot.
• 20:52
  Do you know how big a Home Depot is?
• 20:53
  And I remember thinking, is this the apocalypse?
• 20:56
  What is happening like? What it felt like.
• 20:58
  Yeah, yeah. Like what is happening?
• 21:00
  So I, I applied with, with all of this data from my, you know,
• 21:07
  flipping business and lo and behold, I got, I was approved
• 21:14
  for these PPP loans, 2 separate loans.
• 21:19
  I don't remember how long it was from the time I applied until
• 21:21
  the time those loans sort of were funded, but I got these
• 21:25
  loans and, you know, I thought everything was going well.
• 21:31
  We actually ended up getting, I think we got two more properties
• 21:35
  and we were in the middle of renovating, renovating a fairly
• 21:39
  large property that was going to be kind of like the, you know,
• 21:42
  like a really significant payday.
• 21:46
  And my business partner sort of went haywire.
• 21:51
  I don't know exact. I honestly don't know to this
• 21:52
  day what happened, but he started getting really, you
• 21:55
  know, squirrely around the business.
• 21:57
  And one day I had the FBI and the IRS show it to my house.
• 22:04
  And like, you know, we'd like to catch your.
• 22:06
  Attention. I mean, did you have any idea
• 22:08
  that that was like the FBI or the IRS show up at your house
• 22:13
  No, no. How did that happen?
• 22:14
  Like I. Was outside, I went outside to
• 22:16
  walk my dog. Yeah.
• 22:18
  And a guy, you know, raises his hands.
• 22:22
  He says, he says, Mr. Pierce, I say good morning.
• 22:26
  He says good morning. He's like, I mean, he introduced
• 22:28
  himself and he's like, you know, we'd like to, you know, have a
• 22:31
  conversation with Duke, you know, just like.
• 22:34
  And so we went inside and they had a search warrant and they
• 22:39
  wanted to see, you know, the paperwork and all these other
• 22:42
  things. You know, I mean, you understand
• 22:43
  how that goes. And it was very, it was very
• 22:49
  sort of, it was a heady experience, you know, because I
• 22:53
  just remember thinking, oh boy, oh, this is going to be a, this
• 22:57
  is going to be a long road. I just, I I have that sort of
• 23:00
  feeling like this is this is not looking good.
• 23:03
  Right, this isn't good. This is not good and like the
• 23:06
  when they left, they were there. They were there there for about
• 23:09
  45 minutes and when they before they left, the one the guys with
• 23:13
  the IRS goes, he points to the had a bottle of wine on the
• 23:17
  counter and he's like, he's like, if I were you, He said
• 23:22
  call your lawyer. He's like and open that bottle
• 23:25
  tonight. And that's and that's exactly
• 23:28
  what I did. And at some point I kind of just
• 23:35
  accepted that it was going to be a protracted thing that went on
• 23:38
  because it sort of did it. It took, there was, there was,
• 23:42
  you know, there were months and months between that I actually
• 23:45
  had gone and kind of, you know, talked to a few attorneys and
• 23:50
  the one was like, well, they haven't, you know, they haven't,
• 23:54
  they haven't said anything. They have, you know, they give
• 23:56
  you that letter. What do you call it?
• 23:57
  The target letter? Target letter they haven't get,
• 24:00
  they hadn't given me anything like that.
• 24:03
  And he's like, well, he's like, if you get a letter, you know,
• 24:05
  then they come back. So that's what happened
• 24:07
  eventually, months and months later.
• 24:09
  And I did and, and then life got very sort of I, I started to
• 24:19
  hear like a clock ticking, like not exactly knowing which way it
• 24:23
  was going to go, but obviously it had to, this was going to
• 24:25
  come to a head at some point, so.
• 24:28
  Well, let me ask you something Jason did in case a lot of
• 24:30
  people got caught up in this PPP stuff of these loans.
• 24:34
  Did you guys think that you were doing anything that was out of
• 24:37
  the realm where you are? Just were you aggressively
• 24:40
  forecasting? Like what?
• 24:42
  I I took, I part of the part of the problem is that when you are
• 24:54
  like, because it was pretty loose, yeah, I'll give you the,
• 24:56
  I'll give you an example. Like part of it was like, part
• 24:59
  of it was that it was extremely easy.
• 25:02
  I mean, honestly, like there are people out there I know who, you
• 25:05
  know, just kind of took numbers out of thin air in this case.
• 25:09
  It was like I was actually like just looking at what we had on
• 25:12
  the table, how long this project is going to take, what our
• 25:15
  previous things was. And I was yeah.
• 25:17
  And I said July forecasted. And when, when, you know, when
• 25:21
  they the indictment came, it was saying, well, Oh well, they have
• 25:25
  all these, you know, they're saying payroll was this, but
• 25:29
  essentially that was contractor cost.
• 25:32
  Like, I mean, quite literally, it was like, this is what it
• 25:35
  cost to like pay these people. And it's a lot of, it was a lot
• 25:38
  of money. And I would not, you know, it's,
• 25:44
  it's kind of, it'd be kind of weird to say like, oh, you know,
• 25:47
  I, I have no idea what they're talking about.
• 25:49
  I know exactly what they're talking about.
• 25:51
  It's just that this is the reality of the situation.
• 25:56
  You know, if you if you asked me to, if you asked me, you know,
• 25:59
  what the earnings were, what payroll was.
• 26:02
  This is what we expected to pay because this is these are the
• 26:04
  projects we had to complete. And that certainly didn't happen
• 26:09
  because long before we could even, you know, get down to that
• 26:12
  road, I had, you know, the federal indictment in hand.
• 26:15
  I was trying to find an attorney to deal with this situation, but
• 26:21
  part of part of the part of the issue, and I think a lot of
• 26:24
  people experience this sort of this bifurcated kind of world
• 26:29
  where you're being told that you did something, but you know,
• 26:35
  kind of the difference between the thing you actually did and
• 26:38
  the thing that they're kind of telling the world that you did.
• 26:41
  Right. And they they go out with a
• 26:42
  strong narrative that. Yeah, and it's like a little.
• 26:45
  Bits of pieces of what you think is what the actual.
• 26:48
  Yeah, it's like, I do what? And that's not to say that I'm,
• 26:51
  you know, I'm like without fault.
• 26:52
  I mean, the reality is like, I would not, I mean, frankly, I
• 26:58
  just would not do it. I would have just let everything
• 27:00
  kind of fall apart. I would have let everything fall
• 27:03
  apart and I would have not attempted to like hold on to
• 27:09
  everything, you know, as it was, you know, and, and, and so that
• 27:12
  was my, that was my, that was my fault.
• 27:14
  It was my responsibility. I I did the things, I signed the
• 27:17
  things, I sent the papers in and so you have to pay the piper.
• 27:21
  Yeah. Well, so how long did all that
• 27:23
  last? When you when by the time when
• 27:25
  that when they showed up Jason, to your house, the the FBI guy
• 27:31
  and the IRS person told you to drink that wine and call an
• 27:33
  attorney. And so you're standing being
• 27:36
  sentenced. Like what was the time frame on
• 27:38
  that? So it was about, it's like about
• 27:47
  two years. Yeah, OK, so it was it was a
• 27:50
  good amount of time that you had to walk through purgatory trying
• 27:54
  to figure out what this was. Yeah, and I was trying to make
• 27:56
  it as fast as possible too, because, you know, it's like at
• 28:01
  some point, you know, you go through that, you go through all
• 28:03
  of the, you go through all of this sort of torturous.
• 28:08
  What about if so, what about? And then why did I do this?
• 28:11
  Why did I do that? And at some point, you, you have
• 28:14
  to just come to terms with like, oh, I, I made mistakes.
• 28:17
  I made choices that led me here to this place.
• 28:22
  And although I would not do it again, I have to live.
• 28:26
  This is the moment I'm in now. And I have to kind of figure out
• 28:29
  what I'm going to do now. And so at some point I was like,
• 28:31
  OK, like, let's just we got to figure out how this is going to
• 28:34
  move forward because I can't let my life kind of exist in this
• 28:37
  space where I'm. It's a weird space.
• 28:42
  Yeah, where? I'm just waiting.
• 28:43
  Yeah, waiting and knowing that the the light at the end of the
• 28:47
  tunnel is probably a train. So, so when you when you are
• 28:54
  standing there, I'm sure you probably you know, your
• 28:57
  attorneys and the AUSA had thrown out different things for
• 29:01
  plea When you got that thirty month sentence, what that day,
• 29:06
  what was going through your mind?
• 29:08
  Well, it was actually for maybe not the reasons people would
• 29:17
  suspect, but it was actually a very emotional sort of moment,
• 29:21
  not the sentencing part, because by the time you get there, you
• 29:25
  know, your attorneys already sort of giving you all of this,
• 29:28
  you know, like, hey, here's what's probably going to happen,
• 29:31
  right? But you have all that.
• 29:34
  You have all of those people in the courtroom who've come on
• 29:36
  your behalf if you've got people to come on your behalf.
• 29:40
  And so I had people in the courtroom who comprise, you
• 29:44
  know, for my community, I Co founded a community choir way
• 29:50
  back in like 20/20/16. And a lot of people from that
• 29:54
  choir and from the community had shown showed up.
• 29:58
  And there was this moment where, you know, people kind of get up
• 30:01
  and start sort of, you know, to be there for your character
• 30:05
  witness or whatever it is. Give some background and they're
• 30:09
  talking to the judge and, you know, very rarely do you get to
• 30:12
  hear people in your life sort of, you know, just talk about
• 30:16
  you in this way. It's like I always said, it's
• 30:18
  like almost like being at your funeral and not being done.
• 30:22
  Yeah, yeah, it's exactly that. Yeah.
• 30:24
  It's like, how many times are you going to get people to hear
• 30:27
  people in their own words, just sort of spontaneously talk about
• 30:30
  you and what you mean life means to them?
• 30:34
  And so they did that. And it was, you know, that was
• 30:36
  emotional for me because all of that happens before, you know,
• 30:40
  they just asked you if you want to say anything.
• 30:42
  So now you're like, oh, you know, my mind just was going all
• 30:46
  over the place. But they, they spoke and, you
• 30:49
  know, he thanked them. And, you know, I remember him
• 30:53
  saying he was, you know, fairly impressed by the, you know, the
• 30:57
  outpouring that people showed. And that was, that was nice.
• 31:01
  And then the sentence came and it was not.
• 31:05
  It was not, I don't think it took me aback.
• 31:08
  It was just sort of along the lines of my expectations, wasn't
• 31:12
  along the lines of my hope. Yeah.
• 31:15
  But it was, it was not kind of like the end of the road, you
• 31:25
  know, this was. Beginning of something new.
• 31:27
  Yeah, it was more like, yeah, it's beginning of something new,
• 31:29
  but it's also another thing because he's like, you know, you
• 31:33
  know, you're going to get a letter in the mail and it's
• 31:35
  going to tell you, you know, when to report and all that and
• 31:39
  where you know. And so now it's like another few
• 31:42
  months before you even know. Right.
• 31:44
  What's happening? So that's the way I felt that
• 31:48
  day. I was a little bit, you know, a
• 31:50
  little bit detached, I think probably from my feelings about
• 31:56
  it because I, I needed to be, I had other things to do.
• 31:59
  I had to kind of make arrangements.
• 32:01
  You know, you start to think like, OK, well, what's going to
• 32:03
  happen with this and the house? I'm going to be gone.
• 32:05
  Yeah, so that happened. Well, let's take a break there
• 32:11
  because when we get back, I want to, I want to talk about you
• 32:15
  walking in to Pensacola and, and how, how that world, how you
• 32:21
  walked into that world and then what happened in that world
• 32:24
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• 32:28
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• 33:10
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• 33:31
  OK, Jason, so you get the 30 month sentence, you go and you,
• 33:35
  you know, you wait for the letter and you're going to
• 33:38
  voluntarily surrender. Walk us into Pensacola.
• 33:42
  Yeah, I got that letter that I was going to Pensacola, which
• 33:46
  for the record is about 45 or 50 minutes from Fairhope.
• 33:51
  So it's essentially like right down the street, you know?
• 33:55
  So the day came and had someone drive me down there and I got
• 34:01
  there and it was very anti climactic.
• 34:06
  There wasn't, there wasn't. There was no fanfare.
• 34:09
  And in fact, when we got there, we pull up to the gate, you
• 34:13
  know, and they stop you, the officer, because it's on a Navy
• 34:15
  base, they stop you there. And you know, I say well on your
• 34:21
  report for a prison sentence and the guy goes, well, we don't
• 34:25
  have your name down here to be reporting today.
• 34:29
  Well, good. Yeah, I'm going to want.
• 34:33
  You to go check that again, because if I turn around I was
• 34:38
  like I. Guess this was all a mistake.
• 34:41
  Yeah. If I was it, was it a dream?
• 34:44
  Yeah. So, yeah, eventually they were
• 34:47
  like, just pull over there. They went and found somebody and
• 34:50
  they had someone walk out and I said goodbye to the person who
• 34:54
  drove me in. Yeah.
• 34:56
  And that was that my first impression was fairly like, oh,
• 35:01
  this is it. It's the the prison camp there
• 35:06
  is on a kind of a decommissioned military base.
• 35:10
  And it looks very much like a 1960s office park, a lot of
• 35:19
  trees, very much like a a summer camp for wayward children.
• 35:26
  Yeah, there you go. That's kind of what it felt
• 35:27
  like. So I went through the whole, you
• 35:31
  know, rigmarole with the the search and, you know.
• 35:35
  Yeah, prisonize you. Yeah, prisonize you and all
• 35:38
  that. I mean, it was, it was about as
• 35:42
  comfortable, I guess, as they could make it.
• 35:44
  It was not that I didn't really. It didn't leave me with any kind
• 35:48
  of terrible memories or anything.
• 35:50
  Yeah. The only interesting thing that
• 35:52
  happened is that one of the first interactions I had with a
• 35:56
  staff member was a guy by the name of Doctor Prophet who's
• 36:03
  become kind of infamous due to a certain inmates talking about
• 36:08
  him a lot in the news. But he came by, he was like,
• 36:16
  I'm, I'm Doctor Prophet, I'm with the psychology department.
• 36:19
  And you know, they're reading your, your pre sentencing
• 36:22
  investigation report. And that investigation report
• 36:29
  kind of gave background on my musical stuff and the church
• 36:32
  stuff and all that. And he says, I see you, you
• 36:35
  know, you're, you're in music. And I think the chaplain here is
• 36:39
  going to want to meet with you, going to want to like meet with
• 36:42
  you. They might.
• 36:43
  She can probably use, you know, use you over there in the
• 36:46
  Chapel. I thought, OK, I don't at this
• 36:48
  point, I don't even know what he's talking about.
• 36:50
  I've been. In your mind, is probably a blur
• 36:52
  because you're this is your very.
• 36:53
  You're just getting there. I've been in this place for all
• 36:56
  of 50 minutes maybe. And I'm like, OK, whatever that
• 37:00
  means. Chapel chaplain, you know, OK,
• 37:03
  fine. And then I, you know, I go to
• 37:07
  my, to the unit, to the building and you know, he's like, well,
• 37:14
  you're going to need, you're going to, you're actually going
• 37:16
  to have to go into quarantine because you don't have your, the
• 37:20
  COVID. What do you, the vaccination
• 37:23
  car? Well, I didn't think to bring a
• 37:25
  vaccination card. So because I didn't have a
• 37:27
  vaccination card, I had to go into quarantine.
• 37:30
  And so I went into quarantine for 8 days.
• 37:35
  Would that be like the shoe? They don't have a shoe in
• 37:40
  Pensacola, so they what they did was they had an empty.
• 37:43
  Building those listening down in Costa Rica that that would be a
• 37:48
  special housing unit. Yes, yes, for the, for the
• 37:51
  really, really. You know, when they want to
• 37:53
  segregate the whole, Yeah, the whole.
• 37:57
  So, but they had an empty, an empty dormitory.
• 38:01
  So an entire building that had empty, which is where they have
• 38:03
  our DAP at Pensacola. But because of COVID, they
• 38:07
  didn't have anyone in that building.
• 38:08
  So they use it as quarantine. And there were, there was one
• 38:13
  other person in that entire building with me.
• 38:16
  And then we eventually had one other person join us.
• 38:18
  But I was over there for days and days and days.
• 38:21
  They would come and drop, drop off the meals at the door.
• 38:24
  They would leave. We had no contact with anybody.
• 38:28
  It's a really weird way to enter prison.
• 38:30
  Yeah, we just had the run of the building.
• 38:33
  They're like, you know, don't hurt each other and don't hurt
• 38:35
  yourself, and that was that. And so that was fine.
• 38:41
  The day I got out of there, the. Let me ask you something though,
• 38:46
  Jason, because this is prisoner to prisoner here.
• 38:50
  But like when I got there, they they eventually, when I got back
• 38:53
  down to the camp, because, you know, Leavenworth had the
• 38:56
  penitentiary in the camp and they would, they would do all
• 39:00
  your stuff. Like, like you're talking about
• 39:02
  getting into prison at the big, big place and they put you in
• 39:07
  this, you know, holding place for a while, making you think
• 39:10
  that that might be the place you're going to be forever
• 39:12
  because you what are you going to say?
• 39:13
  I'm not supposed to be here? But then they do take you down
• 39:16
  to the camp and then they give you your stuff.
• 39:17
  Like they give you, you know, your betting and your, your
• 39:22
  three uniforms and three T-shirts and three.
• 39:24
  Did they do all that for you? Not then, not before.
• 39:28
  So you're in quarantine and really haven't been given
• 39:31
  prisoners stuff? No, you're in quarantine.
• 39:33
  You haven't given prisoners, prisoners stuff you've got like
• 39:38
  you've got, you don't have on the uniform because you don't
• 39:41
  get that they give you whatever they have at the.
• 39:45
  Yeah, when you get when you. Go, yeah, when you got there.
• 39:47
  Yeah. So they, you're just, you just
• 39:49
  have that and like a couple of things like that, they give you
• 39:51
  a blanket and stuff, but that was it.
• 39:53
  So for the first eight days or so, that was all I that was all
• 39:58
  I had. And then when I left quarantine
• 40:00
  was when I went to the laundry to go pick up my got.
• 40:04
  It. Laundry.
• 40:05
  My laundry. And that was the day so.
• 40:11
  Yeah. So in this time period, this
• 40:14
  would have been a 23. So you're it's not like it's
• 40:16
  locked locked down anymore. They weren't locked down, but
• 40:21
  they were they were testing and quarantining you if you.
• 40:26
  Right. So is there still some
• 40:28
  restrictions? Yeah, yeah.
• 40:31
  So the day I went to laundry, I show up at laundry and it's, you
• 40:37
  know, it's, this is the first time I'm really kind of
• 40:39
  interacting with everybody else on the Cam.
• 40:43
  It's me, one of the guys I was in quarantine with and the most
• 40:48
  famous of the Pensacola residence, Mr. Chrisley.
• 40:53
  That's and so we, we kind of like we kind of arrived at this,
• 40:58
  you know, at the same time he, he arrived at that day that I
• 41:01
  got out of quarantine. OK, yeah.
• 41:05
  And so we would definitely, we would meet again once I got to
• 41:08
  the Chapel. OK, so let's talk about how when
• 41:12
  you when you go into this environment, a world that you
• 41:14
  never thought you were going to be and Jason, did you have like
• 41:17
  any thoughts in your mind like how I'm going to tackle this?
• 41:21
  Like this is I'm not going to be here for a week or a day or I'm
• 41:25
  going to be here for a while. Were you thinking about as you
• 41:29
  were being quarantined and such like?
• 41:31
  All right, I'm heading into this.
• 41:35
  How was how was your mind set with that?
• 41:39
  And did you have strategies walking into it or was it just
• 41:42
  an open-ended here I am? I was fairly, I was fairly
• 41:47
  relaxed about sort of the, you know, the my fate, like I was
• 41:54
  here, right? So I just made-up in my mind
• 41:59
  that I'm going to find something to do with this time.
• 42:02
  I'm going to make the most of it.
• 42:05
  I don't know what that. Means I don't know what that
• 42:07
  means. I have no idea what that looks
• 42:09
  like day-to-day, but I'm not going to leave here the same way
• 42:12
  that I came in, however, that whatever that means and I was
• 42:16
  determined to figure out what that was.
• 42:19
  But for the first, you know, for the first while, the first few
• 42:23
  weeks actually while everybody else was being assigned jobs and
• 42:27
  you're going to hear you're going there, for some reason,
• 42:29
  they overlooked me all this time.
• 42:31
  I didn't get assigned a job and I was just left to kind of go to
• 42:35
  the library and pick up books. And I would sit on my little
• 42:38
  bunk at the very back of the dormitory where I could see out.
• 42:42
  And I would just read books all day every day.
• 42:45
  And, and I didn't really feel, I don't know, I just kind of kind
• 42:49
  of, I think it gave me some time to acclimate really to the
• 42:53
  environment. And then one day one of the guys
• 42:56
  came and tapped on the bunk and said, hey, the chaplain wants to
• 43:00
  meet you. And this was maybe about 5 or 6.
• 43:05
  It was like after the count, you know, it was, and the chaplain
• 43:10
  wants to meet you. I said, OK.
• 43:12
  And so I, you know, put on my uniform and I went next door to
• 43:17
  the where the Chapel was. I didn't know it was there.
• 43:19
  I didn't even know where the Chapel was.
• 43:21
  And there they were, kind of, she was there, Chapel of Dixon
• 43:26
  was there, and there were a couple of other guys there just
• 43:30
  kind of talking. And it felt very familiar to me
• 43:35
  in a way, because they're here, they are in this Chapel.
• 43:39
  And you've grown up with? Yeah, I yeah.
• 43:43
  It just felt oddly familiar because it's like this does not,
• 43:47
  it didn't look, it does look like a prison environment.
• 43:50
  And there was a piano there and I went like I've always done.
• 43:56
  I just went to the piano. I guess she was like having a
• 43:59
  conversation with someone. And it was kind of a light
• 44:01
  hearted thing, I could tell. And people were just chatting
• 44:03
  And I sat down at the piano and I just started to play.
• 44:08
  I think Todd was in there that day.
• 44:10
  He was there I think, and a couple of other guys.
• 44:14
  Navarro Trevor was there. And I just started to play a
• 44:18
  song. I probably ended up on Amazing
• 44:22
  Grayson at some point. The chaplain says I want you to.
• 44:27
  She said. I want you to go with me.
• 44:30
  She says she's like, I'm going to give you a job over here.
• 44:35
  That was it. In the Chapel.
• 44:37
  And that was kind of the very beginning of a light bulb moment
• 44:43
  for me. I thought, OK, you know, I mean,
• 44:49
  I don't spend a lot of time talking to this guy, but I just
• 44:53
  had this feeling that I had spent my entire life fighting my
• 45:00
  way away from this moment, right?
• 45:02
  Like, I quite literally. Yeah.
• 45:05
  I quite literally grew up at a church piano, right?
• 45:08
  And that was the thing that was like, it was like a driving
• 45:13
  force and somehow out of all my choices and all the decisions
• 45:18
  and all of the going here and going there, I end up.
• 45:21
  In front of. A piano in front of a piano.
• 45:23
  Except this time I can't get away from it.
• 45:27
  Except this time it's going to be the thing that defines the
• 45:33
  top my life. And that's exactly what
• 45:37
  happened. I've sat there at that piano
• 45:40
  that day and thought, oh, OK, I have an idea about what this
• 45:46
  time is going to look like for me.
• 45:50
  And so it began. So where did you get the Spiral
• 45:54
  notebook to write all these songs?
• 45:57
  OK, yeah, I was, I was sitting at the piano another night and
• 46:03
  there are a couple of clerks there, Trevor and Navarro, who
• 46:09
  who'd been there long before I got there.
• 46:11
  And, and Trevor was like, he was playing the piano and singing
• 46:14
  songs and Navarro was playing drums and they were really
• 46:18
  great. And I was actually, you know,
• 46:19
  super happy to have these kind of musical, yeah, sounding
• 46:23
  boards. And I was at the piano and we
• 46:25
  were just talking about something and, and I was singing
• 46:28
  something and I was like, you know, I, I just started singing
• 46:32
  out loud. And it's like, I think I should,
• 46:34
  I'm going to just like start writing songs.
• 46:35
  And I was writing a little piece of paper.
• 46:37
  And. Navarro says he's like, no, no,
• 46:41
  no. And he brought me a notebook
• 46:43
  and, and when he brought me the notebook, I've got it here.
• 46:46
  Actually, he brought me the notebook and he and I thought I
• 46:50
  said I'm going to try to fill this up with songs and maybe by
• 46:56
  the time I get to the end it'll be time for me to go home.
• 47:00
  Wow, yeah. And so he gave it to me and and
• 47:05
  you know, and I carry that. I literally took the notebook
• 47:10
  everywhere I went. I would write on benches.
• 47:12
  I would write in the, I would take it to like, Ciao, you're
• 47:15
  not supposed to take anything in there.
• 47:16
  I I mean, everywhere I went, I had it with me so that I could,
• 47:20
  if I had some idea, I could jot, you know, jot it down.
• 47:24
  And I feel, I mean, I quite literally filled it up.
• 47:30
  With songs. Yeah, I, I wrote and I wrote and
• 47:34
  I wrote and it was such a obviously nobody would you,
• 47:39
  nobody would want to go there to have that kind of experience.
• 47:42
  But it, it was so transformative that it's almost impossible to
• 47:47
  see myself without that experience.
• 47:49
  Like what would my artistic life be?
• 47:52
  What would my creative self be? What would my kind of like inner
• 47:55
  person would be without that time?
• 47:58
  Because I had 14 months, 16 months to really just kind of
• 48:05
  like open these pages up and start putting pen to paper and,
• 48:10
  and trying to figure out why I was, I spent so much of my life
• 48:14
  running from the thing that comes most naturally to me.
• 48:20
  And, and so I had that time and I, I would not, I wouldn't do it
• 48:25
  again, but I really wouldn't trade it.
• 48:28
  What did these guys think that were around you and you're
• 48:30
  writing this like what? What was the That's a good.
• 48:34
  Question, but they but I think, I think there was a sense and I,
• 48:38
  you know, I hate to speak for them and hopefully when I'll
• 48:42
  talk to them after this, and I hopefully I didn't put words in
• 48:45
  your mouth, but I think that they would say that they felt
• 48:49
  something sort of special happening as well.
• 48:53
  Because there will be times where Trevor would get on the
• 48:56
  piano and, and I'd say just, you know, just play something.
• 49:01
  And he'd start playing something and I just start singing
• 49:03
  something and I'd have an idea and I'd get my notebook out and
• 49:05
  I start writing. And by the time he'd be done, I
• 49:08
  would be done and he'd go. I can't believe he's like, what?
• 49:12
  Who are you? Well, I, I, this is, this all is
• 49:15
  kind of reminding me. I had divine G on a while back
• 49:20
  and, and he was portrayed in the movie Sing Sing and they created
• 49:27
  this theatre group and it was really, I mean, a lot of the
• 49:33
  guys that are in the movie are actually inmates or past inmates
• 49:37
  that are in that movie. And, and it, it's, it's
• 49:40
  fascinating how things like that can really bond people in ways
• 49:45
  that you don't normally bond because you're not going
• 49:49
  anywhere. You know, it's not like, oh,
• 49:50
  I'll see you guys next week. No, we're here 24/7.
• 49:54
  We're here. So when you lock in on something
• 49:57
  like that, you'd been around music your whole life, but this
• 50:01
  was some kind of transformation that happened, like definitely.
• 50:04
  Different. This is such a deeper soul
• 50:08
  searching moment of this is who I am and This is why I do it.
• 50:13
  And also you have to remember too, like everyone who's there
• 50:18
  is there not at the by, like they didn't decide to come
• 50:22
  there. Everyone there is trying to
• 50:25
  figure out their life as well. So I'm there, and certainly
• 50:29
  we're all the main characters in our own lives.
• 50:31
  Exactly. But you know, there's Trevor,
• 50:34
  who is an incredible singer, a incredible honestly, you've got
• 50:41
  Navarro, who for some, I don't know how, but has taught himself
• 50:45
  to play drums in a prison environment, was teaching
• 50:48
  himself piano, you know, like honestly in real time.
• 50:53
  And it was amazing to kind of play the we would play church
• 50:56
  services. I mean, we weren't just there,
• 50:58
  you know, lounging around. We actually did something.
• 51:02
  So, you know, we've got put to work.
• 51:03
  So, you know, everybody, all these different groups had
• 51:06
  services that they needed music, you know, Turbo would play for
• 51:09
  these different music services. And I would like hook up the
• 51:11
  keyboard and do auxiliary keys, like give them some strings and
• 51:14
  some pads. So we had like our own little
• 51:18
  worship group happening. And it sounds like something out
• 51:22
  of a movie because it felt kind of like something out of a
• 51:26
  movie. I wouldn't you, if you had told
• 51:28
  me that the environment would be that like what it was and that
• 51:33
  they would be, it would be so supportive.
• 51:35
  And I'd have these people around me who were even without them
• 51:39
  knowing and inspiring me to just kind of like show up.
• 51:41
  And you know, whatever you're going to do, you need to just
• 51:45
  like make something of the time here because nobody's going to
• 51:48
  do it for you. Like you go into a prison,
• 51:50
  nobody there, you know generally is going to force you to do
• 51:55
  anything that's going to be beneficial to you when you
• 51:58
  leave. So it's all up to you.
• 52:00
  It's this like self-directed curriculum in a way.
• 52:03
  It's like this is your. I think it's, it's, it's really
• 52:06
  good advice because this, this goes into 1400 prisons that show
• 52:12
  on the Dovo platform. And, you know, a lot of people
• 52:17
  think, well, I'll just do my time and then I'll figure it out
• 52:19
  when I get out. You got to figure, start
• 52:22
  figuring it out while you're in and, and don't lose yourself in
• 52:26
  that environment. You know, keep being yourself
• 52:29
  regardless of the situation, because then you can fall into
• 52:33
  whatever that weird prison environment was.
• 52:35
  I was always, I always say on the show that I was worried
• 52:37
  about turning into prison Brent. I didn't know what prison Brent
• 52:39
  was. I just didn't want to just.
• 52:40
  Didn't want to be him. Yeah, whatever prison Brett was
• 52:45
  didn't sound good to me, but I do think it's important.
• 52:49
  And what you're talking about, you guys kind of created a
• 52:51
  nucleus and that was kind of in a way your escape from this
• 52:56
  strangeness that was around you. Let's talk about that a little
• 52:59
  bit because in the midst of all this, Jason, you've got all this
• 53:03
  uncertainty going on. When when are you getting out?
• 53:08
  Like usually you have pretty certain, you know they give you
• 53:11
  your date you get out. But with the first step act and
• 53:15
  and how it was being implemented and who was going where and how
• 53:18
  it was happening. How did that affect you?
• 53:23
  Well, I just could not get a straight answer about when.
• 53:28
  I mean, honestly, it was one of these things when we was moving.
• 53:31
  Target. Yeah.
• 53:32
  We would sit around in the evenings and just kind of, you
• 53:35
  know, have these kind of group discussions.
• 53:38
  We had our own little round table there.
• 53:42
  And I, I mean, I couldn't figure out when I was supposed to go
• 53:45
  home. We would have, you know, you've
• 53:47
  got mathematicians doing all this.
• 53:49
  Oh, you came in on this day, your citizens this, and you add
• 53:52
  this and subtract this and multiply and carry it.
• 53:54
  But you know, and then he was like, well, I should be here, I
• 53:57
  should be going. But.
• 53:58
  I should be out of here. I should be.
• 53:59
  Out. Of here.
• 54:01
  Yeah, right. And then, you know, but that
• 54:07
  didn't, it didn't happen that way.
• 54:08
  And so it does have a bit of a psychological sort of thing, but
• 54:13
  you, you kind of have to put it in the back of your mind and
• 54:16
  remind yourself that all you can do is what you're what you can
• 54:21
  do where you are. And I didn't have any control
• 54:24
  over what the staff did. I didn't have a control over
• 54:27
  kind of what the date said. I could bring it to someone's
• 54:31
  attention. I could write those cop outs,
• 54:32
  whether they read them or not, I have no idea.
• 54:36
  But I did a lot of inner searching and I did a lot of
• 54:40
  inner work and I had lots of incredible discussions that I
• 54:43
  met some great people who were quite literally instrumental in
• 54:48
  me rebuilding the my life. And not to say like, oh, you
• 54:53
  know, I'm going to go home and you know, I'm not going to have
• 54:56
  anything. No, it's not that.
• 54:58
  It's like rebuilding a sense of self after going through all of
• 55:03
  this sort of breaking down of yourself.
• 55:06
  How did I end up here? My life is not doesn't look like
• 55:10
  what I want it to look like. But then you look around when
• 55:14
  you're in this environment. And I'm sure we we can all find
• 55:17
  people in our lives, no matter if we're in prison or not, who
• 55:20
  are exemplifying steadfastness, perseverance, all these things.
• 55:26
  You just have to look for them. And so I was there in a prison
• 55:30
  environment with these guys who I mentioned.
• 55:33
  There was Melvin Williams, who had been, you know, at the who'd
• 55:37
  been working in the Chapel for, I think his entire time there,
• 55:42
  who was like, you know, just like a riot to talk to.
• 55:46
  He's hilarious and but also very sort of direct and to the point
• 55:50
  and kind of, you know, gave me a couple kicks in the pants.
• 55:53
  Like, you know, you're going to be fine.
• 55:54
  You know, you know, it's going to be all right.
• 55:56
  And of course, Todd Chrisley is, if you know anything about him.
• 56:01
  And I didn't know anything about him, but he certainly had lots
• 56:06
  of advice about what, you know, like what I could do, where I
• 56:11
  was to just like make a real plan for what I was going to do
• 56:16
  when I lived, for what I was going to do with this music and
• 56:18
  how he's going to kind of push forward through all that stuff.
• 56:21
  So. Kind of Todd kind of mentored
• 56:23
  you a little bit about how how to how to pole vault out of
• 56:26
  there. Well, it was.
• 56:28
  It was I would even, I would go a little further, you know, I'm
• 56:31
  sure, I'm sure he would enjoy me saying that.
• 56:33
  I go a little further and say that he was actually very he was
• 56:40
  an instrumental person in the in me continuing to kind of press
• 56:45
  my way through the music because I would, you know, like
• 56:47
  everything else, you kind of, you know, you get a little bit
• 56:50
  lost sometimes, even though, you know, this is your focus.
• 56:53
  He'd go and he's like, I heard that thing you were playing in
• 56:56
  there. He's like, you should go back
• 56:57
  and like finish that. That's that's really good.
• 57:00
  And. Keeping the on course.
• 57:01
  I don't, you know, yeah, you're not wrong.
• 57:03
  And so I would that's great. That was, you know, that just
• 57:09
  little things like that are super helpful, but also very
• 57:12
  helpful when you know you've got people who don't really have
• 57:15
  anything to gain by sort of encouraging you other than to
• 57:19
  see you kind of do the thing you should be doing.
• 57:22
  Yeah, and I think I think there's a lot to that too,
• 57:25
  Jason. I think that when you're in an
• 57:28
  environment like that, it feels good to be able to give back or
• 57:32
  be helpful in in such an ugly place.
• 57:36
  You know that, you know, you've got these CE OS that most of
• 57:39
  them aren't happy and most of them don't like their job.
• 57:42
  And so they take it, you know, use their power and whatever
• 57:45
  else to make life miserable because they're miserable.
• 57:48
  So if you can somehow help somebody in that environment
• 57:53
  feels good, it does make you feel good because it's it's and
• 57:56
  I, I, I and I think this thing that you guys had all together,
• 58:01
  you were helping each other. And that's yes.
• 58:04
  So when you finally get to the point where you're going back
• 58:08
  and forth, you're not sure where you're getting out.
• 58:12
  What's your thoughts about getting out?
• 58:18
  Well, that was very You got a big book now.
• 58:21
  Yeah, I got this. Notes.
• 58:23
  I was like, well, I mean, there, there, you know, there, there
• 58:27
  does comes that that moment where you've been making all
• 58:30
  these plans and it happens in prison a lot.
• 58:32
  You know, you sort of talk up the plan, you do it a lot
• 58:35
  because there's really not much else to do.
• 58:38
  And then you you realize, OK, now I have an actual date in
• 58:42
  hand. So let's I have an actual date
• 58:44
  in hand. All of the pieces are working
• 58:47
  together now. It's real.
• 58:51
  And now all the stuff I've been saying and planning an writing
• 58:56
  in this notebook, I've got to do something with.
• 59:00
  And so there becomes this a bit of this like kind of anxious
• 59:04
  about, Oh boy, I've been talking a big game.
• 59:08
  Like, am I going to be able to get out of here?
• 59:10
  And like, can I can I not, can I like turn my world, you know,
• 59:14
  into some massive thing? But can I, can I be focused?
• 59:20
  Can I be at peace? Can I have joy?
• 59:25
  All of that kind of comes to the to the front.
• 59:30
  And so that's what I was thinking like, OK, how can I do
• 59:33
  the thing I said I'm going to do?
• 59:35
  How can I pursue the thing I said I'm going to pursue without
• 59:38
  doing the thing which I've been so good at, which is deflecting
• 59:41
  from what I know I need to do. To do the thing that I think is
• 59:45
  like the low hanging fruit of like financial success or, you
• 59:50
  know, admiration from people around me, you know, because I
• 59:53
  was able to do this and do that. And oh, you know, I own these
• 59:57
  properties and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 59:59
  Like how can I, how can I just show up as myself in this world
• 1:00:02
  and be fine with that, regardless of what it may look
• 1:00:06
  like from the an outside perspective.
• 1:00:09
  So that's. What was on my way?
• 1:00:10
  Because that's, and success can be intoxicating too.
• 1:00:15
  And, and, and, and, and financial parts of things.
• 1:00:18
  Cause Sean Mueller was on a few weeks back and he, he was a
• 1:00:22
  very, very successful hedge fund manager.
• 1:00:25
  And he said that his whole identity, he believed was that,
• 1:00:29
  that, you know, people wanted to be around him.
• 1:00:31
  People wanted to go to, you know, basketball games and
• 1:00:34
  sporting events. Because he was that and he
• 1:00:36
  didn't realize that people might have just liked him and there
• 1:00:39
  were a lot of people that just wanted to be around him because
• 1:00:41
  he was a hedge fund manager that wouldn't put his, but his whole
• 1:00:44
  identity was locked up in that. And he made this whole
• 1:00:46
  transformation realization while he was in prison that no, I can
• 1:00:50
  just be shy. Yourself and people will like
• 1:00:52
  you, right? Yeah, It it's a it is a bit of
• 1:00:56
  an amazing process to go through and I don't want anyone to have
• 1:01:00
  to go to prison. But if you had to go, there's
• 1:01:06
  something I think that's possible.
• 1:01:09
  And it may be, it may be simpler for people who are in that
• 1:01:13
  environment to have this kind of realization because you, you
• 1:01:17
  lose so much of the other feedback from the world.
• 1:01:20
  You're there. There's not a lot coming at you,
• 1:01:22
  you know, only from the outside. So it's really just you and how
• 1:01:27
  you're relating to your environment.
• 1:01:29
  And so then you start to go, oh, these people, I mean, I don't
• 1:01:32
  have all that stuff. I'm not, you know, flying first
• 1:01:35
  class here and there. I'm not driving this or that.
• 1:01:37
  I'm just having conversation and people seem to like to talk to
• 1:01:41
  me. And they're, you know, and it
• 1:01:44
  makes you go, oh, I don't really need nor do I actually desire
• 1:01:49
  that stuff. That's not the same.
• 1:01:51
  You don't really want like you don't want a nice car or
• 1:01:54
  something, Fine, but do you want six nights cars?
• 1:01:56
  Do you want like, do you need, you know, you kind of start to
• 1:02:00
  go, wait a minute, what am I? What do I actually care about?
• 1:02:04
  I don't care about. What is my passion?
• 1:02:06
  What makes me happy? What is the passion?
• 1:02:08
  What is the passion? And the passion is, can I make
• 1:02:11
  the thing that matters to me? Can I?
• 1:02:14
  I was talking to John about this, the other I had this
• 1:02:16
  realization about writing music and I thought, how is it that I
• 1:02:21
  can like, write a song? So when someone's asking me what
• 1:02:25
  does it feel like to write a song, I said, well, I'm writing
• 1:02:30
  the song because I can hear the song, right?
• 1:02:32
  Like I, I know the melody, I know the words, how they should
• 1:02:35
  come together. It's sort of like I'm pulling,
• 1:02:38
  like I'm, there are pieces that need to be put together, but I'm
• 1:02:41
  doing that in real time. So, but the only reason I can
• 1:02:44
  hear the song in my head is because it already exists
• 1:02:48
  somewhere, right? If it doesn't exist, how could
• 1:02:50
  I, how could I know where it goes, right?
• 1:02:53
  So there is a part of me which is connected to something.
• 1:02:58
  My job. The thing that makes me happiest
• 1:03:00
  is taking all these pieces that come from wherever they come
• 1:03:03
  from and putting them together in a way that not only I can
• 1:03:08
  hear them, but a way that you can hear them.
• 1:03:11
  That's. My yeah, That's my job.
• 1:03:13
  That's my passion. That's the thing that matters to
• 1:03:15
  me. If that leads me to a gazillion
• 1:03:18
  dollars, fantastic. If it leads me to $100,000,
• 1:03:23
  fantastic. If it leads me to a roof over my
• 1:03:26
  head, food on my table, great, friends, fantastic.
• 1:03:30
  All of that is is the same. It doesn't matter.
• 1:03:33
  There's no difference between those.
• 1:03:35
  Happiness. Levels I love it because I mean
• 1:03:37
  and you're doing it. You're bringing things.
• 1:03:39
  I'm going to see if I can bring in your songs here.
• 1:03:43
  I don't if I I mess this up, it'll OK.
• 1:03:49
  Sure. OK, OK.
• 1:03:53
  Looks like which one do you want to just lift it?
• 1:03:56
  Lift it up. That's.
• 1:03:59
  The most? That's the most recent song.
• 1:04:02
  Lift it up. OK, let me pull, pull that one.
• 1:04:06
  This is like ambient folk. Yeah, tell me.
• 1:04:09
  Tell me what? What's what's this song about?
• 1:04:11
  Lift it up. So the song is about what it,
• 1:04:15
  what it feels like to love somebody, to care about somebody
• 1:04:19
  so much so that you're sort of declaring to them that you'll
• 1:04:22
  love them even when you're, when you like, leave this plane of
• 1:04:28
  existence. Like even then I, you know, I,
• 1:04:31
  I'll never give up on you. Even when I'm no longer around,
• 1:04:35
  I'll never give up on you. I like.
• 1:04:37
  That, that's the song. Can you hear that, Jason?
• 1:04:44
  Yeah, I All right.
• 1:05:57
  We're good. Thank you.
• 1:05:58
  Thanks for thanks for playing that.
• 1:06:01
  I haven't listened to it in a couple weeks.
• 1:06:04
  It's it's great. I really like, I really like
• 1:06:07
  the, the music is so like unique.
• 1:06:12
  I I, I was listening to it last night and I thought there, I
• 1:06:16
  haven't heard anything quite like it.
• 1:06:18
  It's got so many different like layers to it.
• 1:06:21
  It's, it's very cool. Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  Something you can just kind of listen.
• 1:06:25
  It's very relaxing. I I'm glad you, I'm glad you're
• 1:06:28
  saying that there. So the next the, there's a song
• 1:06:31
  coming out next on the 20th called Read Your Mind, which is
• 1:06:36
  kind of which is the next single from this.
• 1:06:39
  And the whole idea about this collection of songs, There are 5
• 1:06:42
  songs. The whole idea, the reason the
• 1:06:45
  project is called Go Lay Down, it's because I kind of want
• 1:06:50
  people to take a moment and to just kind of sit with their own
• 1:06:55
  feelings, their own thoughts and ideas and just kind of make the
• 1:06:59
  let the world kind of drift away a little bit.
• 1:07:02
  So hopefully people will put this, put the product on, you
• 1:07:06
  know, the whole thing and just let it play and, and give
• 1:07:08
  themselves. I think it's like about it's
• 1:07:11
  about 22 minutes. The whole thing will be about 22
• 1:07:13
  minutes, and that's 22 minutes of reflection.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah, which is good. I love it.
• 1:07:19
  What so? I mean, Jason, you haven't been
• 1:07:22
  out for very long. Yeah.
• 1:07:26
  What do you think's your biggest take away from all of it that
• 1:07:29
  you went through? Oh, boy.
• 1:07:37
  I think the most important lesson I've learned is that you
• 1:07:41
  cannot defy your purpose. Your purpose is sort of written
• 1:07:50
  in stone, right? How you integrate that into your
• 1:07:55
  life, how you get there, how long it takes you to get there,
• 1:08:01
  it's all up to you. But you're going to have to
• 1:08:06
  confront your purpose. And so for some of us, we have
• 1:08:12
  to do that in a prison environment.
• 1:08:15
  And that's, that's a better alternative than never
• 1:08:20
  confronting it and then getting to the end of your life and
• 1:08:23
  going, wow, I, I never did the thing I knew I, I felt in my
• 1:08:27
  heart I needed to do. And so to me, my biggest take
• 1:08:31
  away is that your purpose matters and you need to honor it
• 1:08:37
  and not to let your fear stop you from doing the thing that
• 1:08:41
  feels best for you, even if you don't know how that it's going
• 1:08:47
  to work out. And I think that's, I think
• 1:08:49
  that's a really strong take away because I think if we dig deeper
• 1:08:54
  into that, there's so many people, Jason, we talk about
• 1:08:57
  being in prison or out of prison.
• 1:08:58
  What I notice is that there's a lot of people when you get out
• 1:09:01
  of prison that are also institutionalized because of
• 1:09:04
  what you just said, the fear. They stay in a bad job, a bad
• 1:09:07
  marriage of they've had a health crisis, they've had a bad
• 1:09:10
  childhood, they've had all these different things.
• 1:09:12
  And so they've stayed in a, in a very ugly place that they don't
• 1:09:15
  want to be because it's familiar to them.
• 1:09:18
  And they, they, they know maybe that they need to step out.
• 1:09:23
  That purpose is over there, but they're fearful to step in
• 1:09:25
  because it's the unknown. But what you just said, you have
• 1:09:29
  to, you just have to bite that off and step into it because it
• 1:09:33
  is what you're supposed to do. And you'll feel so much better
• 1:09:36
  if you just start stepping towards it, yeah.
• 1:09:39
  Yes, it will hunt. It will.
• 1:09:41
  It will hunt you down. It will hunt you.
• 1:09:44
  Down it will hunt. You down it hunt Jason down all
• 1:09:47
  the way to the Chapel in first. Man, it found me.
• 1:09:50
  I was there in that. I was there in that Chapel.
• 1:09:52
  And you know, I, I, I was there in that Chapel thinking how,
• 1:09:57
  how, how, how, how, how could I end up here when I try so hard?
• 1:10:04
  Yeah. To not end up here.
• 1:10:05
  And I mean not in prison, but in in front of a piano at the.
• 1:10:08
  Church in the Chapel. I just was, you know, it's just
• 1:10:12
  like, oh. Yeah, here.
• 1:10:13
  I went to bakery, you went to real estate, and then there you
• 1:10:16
  were again at Pensacola in front of a piano writing full of
• 1:10:20
  songs. It becomes the soundtrack of,
• 1:10:22
  of, of a lot of emotions, but it's so like peaceful and deep.
• 1:10:28
  I, I, I, it's, I, you know, I listen to music.
• 1:10:31
  My, my, my family says I'm stuck in the 70s because I can, that's
• 1:10:36
  what I can listen to because that's fun.
• 1:10:38
  I I can put it. On We don't mind.
• 1:10:40
  We don't mind the 70s. But but I do I I love I love
• 1:10:46
  music that's unique and your your music's really unique And I
• 1:10:50
  so if people want to go to your website is Jason made music.com.
• 1:10:57
  Oh yeah, that one too. And.com yeah, jasonmade.com and
• 1:11:02
  Jason made dot music the the Internet, the interactive Chapel
• 1:11:08
  notebook is that Where do you find that?
• 1:11:12
  That's a Jason made dot music. OK, you can flip in the pages
• 1:11:17
  there. Your Your EP comes out April
• 1:11:21
  10th. April 10th.
• 1:11:23
  And you can go get certain things that are streaming, salt
• 1:11:26
  water pools really good. Yeah, there's some, there's some
• 1:11:29
  other stuff that's out there now.
• 1:11:30
  So there is, there's a previous set of songs.
• 1:11:34
  This set of songs will come out officially, the entire project
• 1:11:37
  will be out on the on the 10th of April.
• 1:11:41
  And then I've got, of course, I've got a full notebook of
• 1:11:44
  songs. So there, there are plenty of
• 1:11:46
  things scheduled to come. So go and follow me on Apple
• 1:11:50
  Music or Spotify or whatever you listen to music.
• 1:11:53
  And then Jason, if people want to follow you like on Instagram
• 1:11:57
  or whatever, where would? Jason made music.
• 1:11:59
  Any of those, any any the handles.
• 1:12:01
  Jason made music on everything. Jason made musics, everything
• 1:12:04
  great. That's easy.
• 1:12:07
  I love it. I love and I think I think
• 1:12:09
  you're going to go do some big stuff because you have the fuel
• 1:12:13
  in your tank now knowing that this has been your purpose all
• 1:12:15
  along. But now you've and now you're
• 1:12:17
  armed with 40 songs and probably create more.
• 1:12:21
  Got a good runway. You've got a great runway.
• 1:12:24
  And I, I, I'm just excited for you.
• 1:12:27
  I appreciate it. It's a great, it's just great.
• 1:12:30
  I love it when people just go jump out into the deep end and
• 1:12:33
  do what they're supposed to do. And, and it all starts happening
• 1:12:36
  and it's it's really, really cool.
• 1:12:38
  We'll have to have a follow up one in a year or so when you're
• 1:12:41
  famous and, and let's do it. Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:12:44
  Let's do it. We'll have a party.
• 1:12:46
  That's a big party, yeah. A big party?
• 1:12:48
  And I want to, I want to give a shout out to Homestead
• 1:12:50
  Financial, who lets me use this podcast room and all the fancy
• 1:12:53
  cameras and lights. If you got home mortgage and
• 1:12:57
  he's out there, Greg Aftyev is your guy.
• 1:12:58
  He knows all that stuff. Hey, and if you got time and
• 1:13:03
  you're rolling around looking for Jason's music, go ahead and
• 1:13:05
  get my book. Nightmare Success, Loyal to
• 1:13:08
  betrayal, life behind bars, adapting, finally breaking free.
• 1:13:12
  If you got time. I know it's a hassle, but
• 1:13:15
  reviews on Apple, they do great. They're they're I love to read
• 1:13:18
  them. If you want to know what I'm
• 1:13:20
  doing, go to brentcassidy.com. I spell it wrong.
• 1:13:23
  I spell it with ATY and not ADY is I used to say to my people
• 1:13:27
  when I was writing my emails back and forth from love and
• 1:13:30
  where stay strong. I'll do the same.
• 1:13:32
  Jason Pierce made I love it, man.
• 1:13:36
  I'm going to be looking for you out there.
• 1:13:38
  I appreciate it. Thank you.
• 1:13:39
  Very much listen to your music. Thank you.
• 1:13:42
  All right, nightmare success in and out.