Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.262: ''MSK Conferences: How Much Do They Affect Your Clinical Practice?"

Transcript

Ep.262: ''MSK Conferences: How Much Do They Affect Your Clinical Practice?" · The STA Clinician Podcast

0:00
You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast putting evidence
0:05
back into soft tissue therapy.
0:21
Of the Sports Therapy Association podcast. My name is Matt Phillips,
0:25
creator of one-shot-life.com.
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And as always, this episode is being recorded live on the Sports Therapy Association
0:31
YouTube channel and Facebook page on a Tuesday night at eight o'clock.
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In this episode entitled MSK Conferences, How Much Do They Affect Your Clinical Practice?
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I will very shortly be joined by an ever decreasing number of people on the
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panel who are going to discuss that very question.
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And they were all, I say all, I think we got about two, maybe three,
0:53
at the STA and Hands-on Hub conference in Exmouth six weeks ago.
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So I'll be keen to see how much of that they're now using in clinic,
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as well as chatting about any other conferences they may have been to.
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So that's what we're going to be doing. On the topic of MSK conferences.
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This year's Therapy Expo is fast approaching, happening on the 26th and the
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27th of this month, November, at the NEC Birmingham.
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In last week's episode, I had the pleasure of being joined by Therapy Expo content
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producer Molly Benson and Therapy Expo show manager Charlotte Spear,
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who discussed what's happening this year at Therapy Expo,
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which is including two new theatres, business advice and practical skills,
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an expanded CPD and exhibitor lineup, fresh speakers, and also a new one-day
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ticket option, which can be purchased, as we mentioned in the last episode,
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by calling the Delegate Phone Line.
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The phone number is on the show notes. I'll give it again now, just in case you want it.
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It's 0203 978 1665, or you can find it at the Therapy Expo website.
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It does sound like a lot of the feedback which they were given last year,
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they've taken on board, and we look forward to seeing as many of you as possible
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at Therapy Expo in Birmingham on the 26th and 27th.
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The STA will be there in stand form.
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We're not having a theatre this year because we put our efforts into the STA
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and Hands On Hub conference, but there will be a stand there.
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So do pop by and say hello.
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We would love to see you if you've got any questions on either your business
2:17
or the industry in general.
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And as I mentioned last week, I'll be giving a talk called Mindful Strides,
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Communication Skills for Working with Runners and anyone else for that matter.
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That's going to be on day one at 3.50pm in Theatre B, right before the wonderful Michelle Lyons.
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So if you are a therapy expert this year and you want to improve your communication
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skills, then do come along to Theatre B at 3.50.
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Right then, back to tonight's episode. Very excited to bring up whoever is still
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there. We've had a few technical problems, but whoever is still there will be with us very shortly.
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As we get into episode 262, MSK conferences, how much do they affect your clinical practice?
3:09
Thank you. Emilia Gil, but you're scared to say anything in case you use your
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bathroom, aren't you? I'm just not speaking. I'm just sitting here.
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I'm just going to be a body in the room. Don't touch anything. Don't touch anything.
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I know you don't. Well, yeah, exactly. Don't move. Don't breathe too loud.
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We were going to be joined by Lizzie Roby.
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Sadly, it was having connection issues. So thanks, Lizzie, if you are listening
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to this, if you managed to join us. Thank you very much. We'll do it another time. Don't worry.
3:31
Right. So for the podcast listeners who can't see you,
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if they haven't joined us live, what I think we'll do is we'll just quickly go around
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the table and i'll ask you kind of who you are what
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you do to live love and survive and all that sort of stuff and
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so they can hear your voice let's start off with emily who is
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on limited time in this world so emily you joined us two weeks ago dying i'm
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also going to go into detail talk about this week because you haven't got much
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battery left so i thought we'd ignore the health situation and all that no thanks
3:59
for joining us again two weeks two weeks the doctor said no i mean two weeks Fantastic.
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Can I just clarify? I'm not dying, by the way.
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I'm absolutely fine. We'll make sure that's put in the show notes that,
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yeah, it's not. She's fine, everybody.
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You were with us two weeks ago talking about five things to look for in an MSK conference.
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So I guess you're quite interested tonight to hear what Amy and Tristan have
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got to say as well to see whether they're parallel with your thoughts.
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But for listeners who aren't aware of you, could you give us a little bit about
4:26
yourself, your business and where you are in the country?
4:30
So I'm a sports massage therapist. I work in Sheffield.
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I offer solely mobile service. I specialize in working with people with chronic and persistent pain.
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Oh God, I don't know what else to say. And I really like drum and bass.
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I don't know what I hate. That's nice. That's lovely. I find it really hard.
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No, it's really nice. That's really cool. And also your background, you came from?
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Biomedical science. Exactly. And then you decided voluntarily to quit that,
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quit the stage and the lights and concentrate on being a mobile massage therapist.
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And you never look back. You love it. No, I love my job. Yeah, love it. Fantastic.
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Okay. We'll be delving more into
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that later on. Let's go to Amy Healy Bratcher, who is sunning herself.
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Well, not sunning at the moment, but you're in Cape Verde at the moment, aren't you?
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I was, yeah. I'm sunning myself. Yeah.
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Where are you normally based and what do you do for a living?
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So I'm normally based in South Wales, Naked Philly.
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I wouldn't say the actual town because it'll just confuse everyone because there's
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not that many vowels in it. I've done a minute.
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Say it again. Astramanach. Brilliant. Love it. Keep going. Two words, two vowels.
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So I'm a soft tissue therapist and
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sports rehabilitator. I also work in semi-professional women's football.
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And I am just reopening my clinic after 14 months of being employed by the man.
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So it's a very exciting time for me. I'm sure we'll discuss in a bit that the
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conference came at the perfect time for me in that respect, really.
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Oh, cool. Good to hear. We'll come back to that. Great hook.
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Thank you very much for that.
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And also we're joined by Tristan Attenborough, who's actually,
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as well as being at the conference, he's also was a speaker at the STA and Hanson
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Hall Conference and spoken a couple of times, if not more, at Therapy Expo.
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So looking forward to tapping into that. But Tris, where are you in the world
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and what do you do for a living?
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Ah good evening i am in the south northamptonshire and a lot of people know
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where that is because i say is it near southampton and it's not it's right in
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the middle of the country.
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And i live in a tiny little village here and i'm a massage and movement therapist i think,
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for 10 years and i've got a little bit more into movement stuff i've got a bit
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of a gym set up in my in my treatment room because i like i like to get on with
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that i've got a couple of side hustles now.
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I'm just about to start doing a bit of teaching for ST School, like you do, Matt.
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Join that crew. And I'm also writing research views for the MT Network, which is a Canadian...
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Education platform and do monthly reviews for that it's
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quite cool fantastic yeah and in between times
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i like to pick up heavy stuff that's great
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and we will definitely go into that a little bit later
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on as well um so thank you guys for joining us um it's
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great everybody now hears your voice it's very actually i couldn't imagine
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three more different voices so it's perfect for podcast material
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classic and people are joining us live uh just
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a little shout out to a few people for example thanks
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for joining us 75 ckh nice to see you again i
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love seeing your name i'm currently in the middle of a very large puddle hope
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everyone else's evening is less wet i miss 75
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ckh anyone know who 75 ckh is um i don't know whether you know that your name
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comes up like that but i'm really i can't see from the picture either but who
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are you 75 ckh i recognize your your tone i can't work it out anyway and thanks
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for joining us live also oh this roby's joined us this evening That's lovely
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as well. Nice to see you all.
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Nice to see you, Liz. Thanks for joining us. Saw you couldn't be up this side.
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Sir Glenn Murphy's here as well. Great. So if you are listening to the podcast
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and you like the idea of joining us live, then we can bring your questions and
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your comments up onto the screen, which is quite a good networking opportunity as well.
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So all you've got to do is eight o'clock, go to YouTube or Facebook and join us that way.
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Right then. So onto tonight's show.
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I thought we'd kick off maybe, and we prepared this
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a little bit of thinking i asked you to kind of think of ways in
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which going to a conference has affected your
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clinical practice it could be the sta and hands-on hub conference that you went
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to it could be a different one you don't even if you don't need to you don't
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even have to mention the conference name but i'm keen to start off on a positive
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note if that's possible it's a nice way to start and then it will and then we'll
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get all negative so who we didn't get a chance to kind of say before but who would like to go first,
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Who's got something they'd like to get off their chest?
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Emily should go first in case we lose her. Oh, it's true. Okay, yeah, that's true.
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Matt, I'm so sorry. What was the question? The question, Emily,
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was can you think of something which you have taken away from a conference and
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really did help you in clinical practice?
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Because I think there's a danger these days to give some preface if we can go
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to a conference for one or two days, be absolutely blown away.
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And then we get back to clinic and in like first day, second day,
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we're thinking, I'm not actually doing anything different.
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What was that all about? you know which might be satisfying to you but for a
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lot of people it's not really satisfying so is there something that did affect your clinical practice.
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It's gonna be one of those nights uh one of those amy how are you i have a question
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to you um i saw the sta hands on hub conference,
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i was gonna book i ended up booking my ticket at quite short notice because
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working in football i had to see what my fixtures were going to be and by the
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time I got around to booking my ticket realized that I was going to quit my
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job and go back to working face-to-face in my own clinics,
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hands-on with patients which I was very very excited about so
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it came at the perfect time really for me to ignite that kind
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of shun for working face-to-face with
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people and also while I was there found some speakers that I'd heard before
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doing various things at therapy live online and such like but really kind of
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gave me loads of ideas to implement in clinic when I fully reopened about working
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with different populations than I'm used to working with so I'm very used to
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working with athletic populations but,
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kind of seeing Claire Minshell and Serena Simmons speak again kind of gave me
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loads of ideas of implementing working with older populations for example on
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falls management and prevention.
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Joint pain back pain and I'd spent a year working or just over a year working
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in an occupational health environment with people and a lot of that was about
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chronic and non-specific lower back pain and just working face-to-face with
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people with those symptoms and complaints does that mean
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yeah that's me it's okay i'm sorry um so
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it gave me loads of ideas to implement in the future when i get back from my
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holiday and get up and running in that regard and like future planning and that
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kind of thing loads of things really like sort of working again like i said
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with different populations with lots of the discussions around trauma-informed
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therapy and working how that can manifest in,
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msk conditions and i really enjoyed oliver's talk as well i'm not just saying
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that because anna maria has threatened me because she hasn't but i really enjoyed
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oliver's talk about reframing what could be a new normal for people whether
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that's working with athletes with a longer-term injury because i you know i
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work with semi-professional female footballers we see quite a lot of acls and,
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longer-term injuries and in that regard so i found it really really useful.
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So i'm gonna implement so so basically
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then it sounds like we're talking about a great thing about a
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conference could be if you are working with a new population or
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a group of people who you haven't for a while you didn't know much about then
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you can get kind of loads of information take it back and
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expand the sort of people you can work with and that's
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what happened to you wasn't it a refresher and introduction to yeah and
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also seeing michelle lyon's talk because i working in women's
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football there's a lot of headlines around managing training load around their
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menstrual cycle and because we're only semi-professional it's not always that
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possible for us to do but we see so many headlines around it we're always oh
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should is this something we should be doing and to hear that the evidence doesn't
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really support that at the moment is.
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Reassuring how much of what you
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saw there so we're talking about in this case the sta and
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hands-on health conference how much were you expecting to
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hear and it was topics you chose or how much for example in
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the case of oliver or ollie where it's
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not something you probably walk into the fact it was put on there and
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you went to it was about the coming the whole title now
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it was about medicine and and anthropology wasn't it how we can learn from anthropology
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and kind of the the the theories and concepts behind that and put it into healthcare
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but yeah was that like at that one for example that presumably that's not something
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you thought i'm going to go this conference because I want to learn more about anthropology. No.
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So that was a nice surprise, I guess. It was a nice surprise.
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So I went to the conference because I implicitly trusted the people that were putting it on.
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Good point. In terms of the STA and the hands-on hub.
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And that's why I went to it. It was in the southwest, which for me is local.
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You know, for somebody in South Wales, as soon as you start talking about going
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above Hereford, that's like above the wall.
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You know, and we get a bit nervous. but to go into the southwest is an area
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that we don't get that much kind of that level of,
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you know speak all in one place at one time i was unable to go for one day as
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well and i found it really really really valuable i trusted that it wouldn't
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be like a super salesy conference,
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because i've worked at a lot of these conferences in the past in a previous
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life in the beauty industry so i know how salesy they can be so i kind of really
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trusted that it would be more evidence-informed, and that it would be good evidence-informed as well.
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And I was really glad that I went. And, you know, I kind of went for the speakers
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that I knew and found so many other speakers that I wasn't that familiar with while I was there.
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Right. So we've got – thank you for that. We've got loads of positive things
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that can come out for a conference –.
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I like, I mean, you've mentioned location there, which is an important thing,
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the reason to go to conference. If it's in your neck of the woods and take advantage of that.
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You've mentioned the fact that if you trust the organisers and you know them,
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then you go along gratefully because you know that they're going to give the
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sort of thing which you can use.
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What about actually in clinical practice then so far? Have you already used
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some of that? Did you get back from that conference and you put some into practice?
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Little bits. So for example, my grandmother's got parkinson's so
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there's little bits that i've put into practice with hair because i'd never kind
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of sought out much education around parkinson's before but
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was very glad to attend that talk on the day and found
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out a lot from nurses bits i put into practice with hair in terms of current
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clinical practice some of it i've put into practice with my players at football
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and then other things i'm planning to put into practice once i get my clinic
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fully up and run in again when I get back from my holiday.
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I've been dabbling a little bit until then. That's great. The Parkinson's is
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another example, maybe.
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I was involved, obviously, in putting together that program,
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and we did try to make it as diverse as possible and give topics that people
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wouldn't necessarily go to unless it was there.
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And there are things which can affect you, because there's more people than
15:32
you think who are going to need information on Parkinson's and spotting it,
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if only to refer to someone else. So that's good to hear.
15:38
Tris, all of that sounds really positive, doesn't it? It almost sounds to me
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like there's no disadvantages of going to a conference at all.
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It's always going to be amazing, and you're going to be better for it. Over to you. Okay.
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See, I don't think I'm quite as much in the...
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I don't usually think, you know, come back from one and think,
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yeah, I'm going to use that this week.
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I don't really expect to. Okay. Quite honestly, I don't see it as that.
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I think a really good weekend CPD course, you would, but I've never quite,
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I think I probably regard the fact that on some type of thing,
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what you just get is a bit of clarity.
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And an improved understanding and a bit of perspective, which I personally quite find
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quite valuable have you got an example of that i mean i'll
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give you a couple of examples yeah it wasn't at the st1
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but previously i've seen i tell you there's a really nice talk i think
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you'll agree is chris tiley never talked
16:37
to lift approach which i i'm a big
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fan of i saw him speak at the last
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last year's therapy expo and it
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was i thought he did a really good job because
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it lent a bit of patient perspective because
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he brought forward some powerful quotes actually that were
16:57
were valuable to understand but i
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think he just sort of i think
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he's giving you some the confidence
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to go yes this stuff is going to work and
17:10
we haven't got to be ridiculously careful go forth and do it you know and follow
17:15
the basic principles of s and c and whatnot and i so it's so that so that's
17:20
an empowering sense a sensation to come away with I've seen a couple of talks that Mike James does,
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and I think he's particularly good at.
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Just summarizing and simplifying because he'll do a talk and he won't he won't
17:35
cover tons of material he'll keep it very straightforward very on point and
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go like here's eight or ten things or whatever and just leave you and at the
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end you go oh and a lot of it is stuff you perhaps knew,
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and some you won't but it's just somebody putting it together for you who's
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got the years you know mike's obviously got the mileage and i and i very much
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appreciate that and i go yeah and he gives me again a bit of confidence and
18:00
a bit of comfort and a bit of a bit more fluency with the topic.
18:04
So i i i like getting clarity i
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would say probably got the same when i saw claire minchel
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at this last one at the sda the one
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the first talk she did didn't see the second one because she
18:17
was on when i was on which meant i didn't get
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nearly as many people as i could have done if i understand done
18:23
that again a lot
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of it was snc stuff that i'm quite familiar with but just
18:30
someone putting it together and applying it to a population and explaining
18:34
how she thinks it through really helpful so is
18:38
one of the advantages of going to a conference then
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it might not be new information but the fact you're
18:44
hearing somebody go through it makes it easier to
18:47
take on and and and put effect than just reading it on a pdf or watching a video
18:51
it's being there that helps most of us most of us work in isolation and i'm
18:57
and i'm sure everyone is riddled with the same amount of self doubt that i am
19:02
it's just this constant you don't know what you're talking about.
19:07
So yeah i really do enjoy,
19:10
getting clarity and in fact actually i i did a greg
19:13
layman weekend the week after sda conference which i've
19:16
done what i did once before in 2017 i did it again and it
19:19
was absolutely fantastic and interestingly he
19:22
did say at the beginning you might find you get to the end of this and realize
19:27
you you sort of knew most of it after all of it depending on you know where
19:31
you are but he's got a way of putting it together yeah that is incredibly valuable
19:37
and it really simplifies and brings clarity.
19:40
And that's the thing I find most valuable to take away. That and hugging and chatting with people.
19:47
100% chatting and hugging.
19:50
It's interesting that you say that.
19:53
Because, yeah, I think, I mean, that takes us onto the part of actually going to a conference.
19:59
It's not so much like you say of learning new things. You can save that for
20:02
a CPD course or something specific.
20:04
But I think the confidence you get of meeting people, hugging,
20:09
chatting is kind of something you take back to clinic and makes you a better
20:12
clinician, even though it's not a particular skill or a tool.
20:15
It just fills you with more confidence, like you said, empowerment.
20:18
And it's really important because I do remember, I'm going to have a little dig now, actually.
20:21
I don't know who the person is because they they
20:24
hide behind they hide behind a what's
20:27
it called when you write with a pseudonym or something but it's glenohumeral
20:31
of the msk mag did you read i don't know whether you read this
20:34
um msk mag by the way is great i love it um it's part
20:37
of the physio matters team but there's this this is
20:39
dude glenohumeral who i don't know who it is it could
20:42
be jack i don't know i don't know who
20:45
it is but they i just remember something they wrote
20:48
they went to therapy expo a couple of years ago and they wrote this very sarcastic
20:52
cynical piece about oh there's lots
20:54
of hugs at therapy expo anything else no but there's lots of hugs it was really
20:58
good hugging everyone and they were just basically having a go about how all
21:02
therapy expo was was about people hugging each other and i just sat there thinking
21:06
you know what i think that was probably the most powerful thing about going
21:10
there you know because a hug for me is a metaphor for meeting people, connecting.
21:14
Pausing, reflecting, communicating, which is exactly what we're supposed to be doing as clinicians.
21:19
So if you're a clinician, especially if your name's Glenna Humor,
21:22
who doesn't like hugs, then I wonder, I'm not saying that all people have to
21:26
hug your patients, but I think it kind of just reminded me how important the human connection is.
21:30
And that's one of the advantages of
21:31
going to a conference, maybe not for everybody, but for a lot of people.
21:34
So Amy, you were hugging, you were hugging, nodding at hugging and going,
21:37
that's really important.
21:38
So is it important for you? I think it is. And I think like Trish said,
21:41
We're all out here working on our own, pretty much, with our self-doubt.
21:45
And then we go home because we work on our own. We don't really have anyone
21:48
to kind of talk to us about that or talk to about that.
21:52
And I think it's really important to go to these things. And it's the first
21:55
conference I've been to as a punter.
21:58
But just to meet other people that are in the same boat and whose names you
22:01
might recognize from various Facebook groups or chats or things like that.
22:05
It's just really, really nice to connect with other humans in that way.
22:08
Because that's what our job is about, really, isn't it? It's connection with other human beings.
22:12
And it's just so nice to have that kind of chat, whether it's at the conference
22:16
or, you know, go out for a few drinks or I went to the Anatomy Al Aperitibo,
22:22
which was just fabulous.
22:24
And I went out for a few drinks with three ladies I'd never met before in my entire life.
22:27
One of which was lizzie roby afterwards and then some food and more chats and
22:32
it was wonderful it was just such a nice thing to come back seen and connected
22:36
rather than just a lone worker.
22:41
Yeah a good point i think and one of the things we tried to
22:44
do at that conference in particularly was to open it
22:47
up with with andy hosgood who was amazing just to give people that
22:50
kind of because not everyone arrives they're ready to hug and
22:53
a lot of people don't even realize they need a hug and they're normally the
22:56
criers they're only the ones who start blubbering once you do have a hug but
22:59
i think just giving people permission saying you know what if you
23:03
want to connect here and you feel like you want some human interaction because you work alone
23:05
this is great we can do that no one's going to judge you you know if you want
23:08
to talk to someone go up and talk to them and you're all free to do it or
23:11
not do it so that was kind of because again i think that
23:13
sets the scene for how much you're going to take in education wise
23:17
if you've got that new kind of relaxed kind of
23:20
permission and that safe space then you're more likely to be more you
23:23
know you're absorb more information when you are sitting down there so i'm
23:26
glad you picked up on that but it doesn't mean if you're not a hugger that's fine
23:29
you can still be great and go to these conferences it's with consent
23:32
it has to be with consent always consensual hugging
23:35
exactly you hear that it's just really nice because it was because it was so
23:40
informally laid out as well that during like after the talks and in between
23:45
talks you could chat things through immediately with another person rather than
23:49
sit informally in rows where you didn't have that kind of connection to then
23:53
make sense of it yourself.
23:55
Yeah that's cool i'm glad you picked up on that we did
23:57
i mean again everyone's got different ideas but
24:00
i specifically wanted round tables i if
24:03
i go to a restaurant i mean i mean
24:06
this is yeah my own head as well but i just
24:09
can't relax on a table that's not round i need
24:11
to have be able to see everybody and talk to everybody and these
24:14
straight tables where there's half the people down the end who can't talk to you i just
24:17
avoid that like the plague so i really wanted a round
24:20
table i think it encourages if you go into any education the first
24:23
thing they sort of talk about is kind of get rid of these rows of
24:26
people and you know especially with young learners make a horseshoe make
24:29
everyone on the same level there's no beginning and end no one's at the back
24:32
no one's at the front so we tried to make a conference which kind of used the
24:36
same basic principles of education of getting everyone on the same level and
24:39
everything so so good i'm glad you picked up on that tristan's now left i don't
24:45
think i think i think it was the word hug i think he's
24:48
to find someone now in the street for a hug because he felt he needed it um have you been to.
24:53
Any without naming them at all amy but have you been to
24:56
any conferences where you thought this
24:59
isn't working or i'm not getting as much out of
25:01
this and you have that's that no this is
25:05
the first one i've been to since working in this in this industry or this corner
25:09
of the world i think because it seemed pretty informal and i've said fairly
25:14
local to me it seems like a good one to go to and it seemed to be less sales
25:19
focused i know a lot having worked at a lot of big expos and.
25:25
Conferences in the past when i went to the beauty industry for example in
25:28
magister london and birmingham i know how sales focused they can be and the
25:32
fact that they're so big kind of put me off as well because as much as i'm an
25:37
outgoing person there's an element of social anxiety where this seems a lot
25:41
a little more informal and more intimate okay that's an interesting point as
25:46
well. It was the first one that I'd been to.
25:48
So sometimes if a conference is too big with literally thousands of people,
25:53
then that can change the whole receptiveness of taking information in.
25:57
It can make people anxious a little bit.
25:59
And I think especially because we all work on our own pretty much,
26:02
or a lot of us do work on our own.
26:03
There's not always someone to go with to have that kind of, you know, wing person then.
26:09
So it can be daunting to go to something that big.
26:13
Tris, can you, does that relate with you?
26:15
Do you think sometimes sizes and everything yeah very
26:19
much so i have to say i i find therapy expo a sensory overwhelm i find it absolutely
26:26
exhausting being there i mean i find i've done talks at the last three and that
26:31
wipes me out anyway i probably invest a bit much of myself,
26:37
into the job but there's just usually
26:40
a point on day two where i cannot bear the noise
26:43
in there and i just find somewhere sometimes near
26:45
the sda at the back there on your stand and just go and hide and you sit and
26:50
chat with alex or someone else and we just go we'll sit on the floor and be
26:54
quiet for a bit usually with becky because you go i can't stand the din and
26:59
it is it's interesting what amy's saying about that with the previous experience of the kind of expo,
27:04
i suppose you call them trade shows aren't they that you know i suppose in a
27:09
way it's years ago when I in the noughties.
27:14
I did a PhD in psychology so I went to psychology cognitive conferences it's
27:21
a very different thing it's quite formal but it is 100% people presenting their research.
27:28
That's all everyone did. And I was not even close to being able to be on a stage doing it.
27:34
And that was quite intimidating. But it was the beers I had with people afterwards,
27:39
where I got the most out of it because I could talk to someone else who at least
27:42
knew the subject and would know more than me.
27:45
And we could have a beer and get through it. And I took some real gems away.
27:49
But then the other end, you've got something that's a trade show.
27:52
And i i think for me therapy expos
27:55
managed to walk the line ish between
27:59
the two and i think it's the situation where you
28:02
know it needs to be a trade show to make the money we want it to be an education
28:07
thing it's not where the money is in that in that regard if you should so i
28:12
don't know what i based this on but i got the feeling that it's just inched
28:16
more trade showy from the last time I went,
28:20
and I was not as inclined to go, not going this year actually,
28:24
yeah, we want good education, which is why, you know, jumping on the SDA one
28:29
that you did down in Expo this year,
28:31
that was brilliant, and that's more of what we wanted, and none of what we don't
28:37
want, and I'm assuming financially it was viable, I mean, it seems no one's
28:41
gone into terrible debt over it, because for what?
28:45
No comment. It works, and it can be done again.
28:48
Yeah, no comment about that. I mean, that is a big thing. And when we had Anne-Marie
28:52
on the show, we kind of hopefully made the point of how much it does cost to
28:58
put a conference on and to have a location where you're going to feel relaxed.
29:02
Because again i think that the view
29:05
and everything not only was the sta and hands
29:08
on hub kind of smaller and more kind of intimate and
29:11
relaxed also you had that huge window and the coast and
29:14
sea and beach for as far as you could see which i maybe not everybody for a
29:18
lot of people i think that also relaxes you down and calms you down just makes
29:22
you more to chatting so but it does all cost it's it's tricky and that's like
29:27
you say therapy expo is a huge conference and it's like I say it's coming up
29:31
a couple of weeks and they it's tricky to put that on they need the exhibitors,
29:34
and it's just how much they managed to not you know get that in your face the
29:38
whole time it'd be interesting this year I know some of the feedback we had last year was,
29:43
people just were struggling to get past the
29:46
exhibitors to get to the theatres and it was like even
29:49
when you were queuing up it was like you had to bend the queue a
29:52
little bit because there was a stand in the way and it just made people just
29:54
for some people it just shoved it down your throat a little bit all the time
29:58
that you know you're not so much here to learn stuff or educate stuff it's more
30:03
just to walk past the stand sort of thing there's also a conflict in there isn't
30:07
there because we know that a lot of stuff that's being sold,
30:12
doesn't align with evidence-based practice.
30:16
Still i don't know oh as much do you think
30:19
last time before i think i was talking to nils the
30:22
a guy who behind the trust me i'm
30:24
a physio you met him yeah yeah yeah nils is
30:27
he a little bit taller than you he is a bit taller than
30:30
me i'm not gonna lie yeah he's easy to find in a room he's very
30:33
big and he was there the year before just took a punt and
30:36
and and you know they're a an education provider
30:39
and i don't think it was working out that well for him to have a stand there
30:42
it didn't think it worked for him
30:45
and he said you know they're they're sort of paid a lot for that
30:48
and then straight opposite him you watch somebody buy a five grand posture assessing
30:53
piece of kit and you go what's the point you know i i very sympathetic to that
30:59
so yeah so there's there's a conflict inherent in there isn't there that i think
31:04
we are walking through a little bit when.
31:08
We're there which obviously we're not we weren't
31:11
in experts because there's no trade component to
31:14
it it's getting a bit better it's less
31:17
in your face in the early days because i don't know
31:20
the early days so i'm oh you would have
31:23
you wouldn't you would have lasted yeah i know you've got
31:27
broad shoulders and you're a great hugger and you use them for that effect
31:30
but yeah you would have been out you would have been like you know what i'm out
31:33
and drop the microphone had left um yeah it was but it
31:36
was it was back in i'm talking about 2000 and when was
31:39
the first one 2013 or something yeah and when
31:42
it was in manchester yeah it was crazy it was it may
31:45
as well have been the world massage competition it was that sort of vibe
31:48
it was that kind of vibe yeah which was maybe a reflection of the times but
31:53
but it has so it has evolved a lot since then it's much better than it used
31:56
to be but anyway so yeah size sometimes can be intimidating i think and change
32:02
the look and all those stands and everything is not for everybody. But although...
32:06
I wonder whether that's our bubble, because I did get feedback from quite a
32:09
few people saying that they loved going around some of the stands and testing stuff out.
32:12
You know, they're never going to use a £5,000 piece of kit, but to actually
32:15
get in there and play around with it and experience it.
32:18
And then even if they don't really follow it much or believe in it, it's just fun.
32:21
Maybe some people, you know, enjoy that sort of thing.
32:24
Not everyone goes their trust and starts evaluating it for how evidence informed is.
32:29
They just want a nice shiny buttons to press and kind of, you know,
32:31
some people like that. I know it's not us, but some people do enjoy that sort of thing.
32:37
Fine price i wanted to do a talk a little bit about price because i think you
32:42
can get lots from conferences but in either way whether it's the sta hands and
32:46
hub one or whether it's therapy expo it's still going to cost money.
32:51
Does that always going to put people off, do you think?
32:54
I mean, Amy, in your case, you didn't have to travel that far,
32:57
but you were taking a couple of days potentially out of clinic, I guess, with clients.
33:01
And also, you know, there's always going to be some expenses, isn't there?
33:04
Yeah, I traveled down on Friday and stayed Friday night and then came back on
33:08
Saturday after the first day of the conference. And I found it was reasonably priced, I thought.
33:14
I didn't think it was overly expensive for what it was.
33:18
And for the opportunity, because I'd never been to a conference before, and
33:21
for the opportunity and the timing of it i thought it was great i know
33:25
and you know some conferences are more expensive and that definitely
33:27
puts me off because you end up having to travel further and then hotels in different
33:32
areas of the country are a lot more expensive so no i thought it was great but
33:37
i am very aware of price particularly as somebody that's just starting my business
33:40
back up again and reopening my clinic then i don't have unlimited funds for,
33:45
cpd at the moment particularly as i'm you know i'm to reinvest in some things,
33:50
yeah no good points it is tricky for some people and
33:53
i think it's pre-planning even like yeah therapy
33:56
expo now two weeks before there's not
33:59
as much of a discount it ended on the 31st and you are going to be paying 190
34:03
something pound and that's even with a discount or something but if you had
34:07
booked it at the event i think you get it for like 70 80 quid or something it's
34:12
so i think it's preparation but i think it is tricky for people to book these things ahead,
34:18
100% especially because I work in sport I have to kind of wait for my fixtures
34:22
to come out to make sure I don't have like a lot you know a far away game that
34:25
weekend so I can't I can afford to be there on a Saturday rather than I'm spend
34:29
the whole weekend traveling with the team.
34:31
Yeah, yeah. So some people just can't book a head because they're not sure what
34:34
events and fixtures and things are coming up.
34:36
So the early bird ticket things doesn't really help that much,
34:39
unless there was a fair return, refund.
34:43
But then that would be a viable business for them. But anyway,
34:45
Tris, for you, do you think price is a problem here?
34:49
You've mentioned the benefits of going to see someone live like Chris Tiney
34:52
and other people, Mike James, but do you think price is always going to be an
34:54
issue or is it just a case of education and helping with this plan? It's lovely, isn't it?
34:58
Because, I mean, I think that if anything's worth listening to,
35:03
you know, whether it's a weekend or whatever, you can expect to pay between
35:07
100 and 150 pounds for a day.
35:10
I mean, that's pretty, but I think it has to be good.
35:14
You know, that has to, I think you can demand a level of quality for that.
35:20
And I don't think it can be done that well for less than that,
35:25
you know, unless you, you know,
35:26
there are other ways you can set up a much more informal thing and get people
35:31
who are willing to do it for, you know, for nothing and still pay to travel. You see what I mean?
35:36
So there's room to move.
35:38
But I think, you know, base level of price, you have to expect to pay for good quality. You really do.
35:46
And i i wonder sometimes if it's more people's perhaps mentality about what
35:50
they should be spending per year and that does get discussed in the group and
35:54
i think somebody i think there was a discussion it i don't know whether it was
35:58
anna maria or somebody else said you know you you probably should budget something
36:03
like a thousand pounds a year something like that,
36:06
every year to go on your education and something like that is is very reasonable
36:11
you know if you're going to do it you have to take it seriously and and we should
36:16
be doing it you know it's it's not,
36:18
it's it's not an unreasonable amount and we
36:22
we it is it is one of those professions
36:25
that we we do have to keep learning we have to otherwise we're crap yeah expand
36:34
on that because i thought i was waiting for you to say that you know it is a
36:37
profession we're working with people in pain and there's trust and there's so
36:40
much going on there. So why do we have to keep learning?
36:43
Is it never going to be that we've got enough to help these people?
36:46
Oh, wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't it?
36:49
I mean, but it doesn't, I mean, I mean...
36:54
You know, I do Mike Grice's Learn Anatomy Online every morning,
36:59
every Monday morning for the last four years.
37:02
It's still going in. I'm still, and that's just anatomy.
37:06
So yeah, it doesn't stop. And then, you know, we've got an infinite diversity
37:12
of populations and pathologies and circumstances and social context to bear in mind.
37:20
And we have to keep learning to make a dent.
37:24
And we need to find out as well if there's anything that we're doing that actually isn't doing anything.
37:29
And we've been, you know, go, oh, I thought that helped. As we go,
37:33
no, it doesn't do anything.
37:34
You go, okay, I'll stop doing that, and I'll replace it with something that's more useful.
37:40
It'd be nice if we could sit on our laurels.
37:44
But we can't. We can't. We must keep learning.
37:48
Comes with the job really comes with the job same as anyone in in the whole
37:52
of health care yeah they don't they don't um qualify and then stop do they the learning never stops,
37:59
the points emmy you're nodding your head there agreeing with this definitely
38:04
and i think this this kind of never stopping learning i think this is a profession
38:09
particularly in that you don't know what you don't know until you start learning
38:12
and then you realize that there's so much that you
38:13
don't know and that's one of the aspects in which conferences I think like this
38:17
can be so helpful because you're meeting up with everyone else and it kind of
38:21
puts your mind at ease a little bit that everyone else doesn't know everything
38:24
either because I think when we work in these silos as lone therapists quite
38:29
often the worst thing I think we can do a lot of the time is join,
38:33
massage social media or social therapy social media because everyone else seems
38:37
like they know what they're doing and that they know all of the answers and
38:40
we're just sitting at home thinking I I know nothing and I'm useless and crap.
38:44
And then you meet up with other people and we're all in the same boat.
38:48
And as well as having this amazing opportunity to learn things from,
38:52
you know, really awesome speakers, we also have the opportunity to connect with
38:57
other therapists who also don't know everything as well. And it makes us feel better about that.
39:01
I think that's a good point. I think, again, you can't generalize,
39:04
but I would suggest that when people do consider going to a conference that,
39:09
let's say 50-50, 50% might be going to see and get information from speakers,
39:14
but the other 50% is, yeah, connecting, networking, talking to people,
39:18
confirming things, sharing, collaborating, all that sort of stuff.
39:21
Otherwise, yeah, just download a PDF, you know, or buy something online and
39:25
watch it by yourself, you know, and you'll get that for cheaper for the reason.
39:28
But yeah, I've always kind of said, if you are paying you're paying for
39:31
that connection to meet other people um and to
39:34
hear things put in a way where they're asking for feedback
39:37
stimulating reflection all that sort of stuff which is
39:40
what a pdf doesn't give you that's what you're paying the money for so but i
39:43
think there's so much out there now which is free and can be downloaded and
39:46
it's again it's a problem with technology i think so many therapists have probably
39:50
got four courses on kajabi or something that haven't even started yet cpd they've
39:55
paid for and it's just piling up in their one drive or whatever or
39:58
dropbox and it's just never really gets used we watch it at one and a half speed
40:03
thinking you're taking it in because you only got an hour and you're watching
40:06
you know it's it's a shame.
40:08
Pausing that's what we said at the sta and hands on hub conference it's all about pausing,
40:13
and connecting and then reflecting and growing i think that that's why we chose
40:16
those four words and that's what you get from a conference that you don't get
40:19
from just watching a yeah an online youtube video or something let's have a
40:23
look at some comments from the people in here.
40:25
Emily Gilbert. Hi, nice to see you, Emily. Sorry you couldn't join us tonight.
40:29
Emily Gilbert says, I'm here in the chat. Sorry, that's okay,
40:31
Emily. Really, don't worry at all. I've still got your name up here in remembrance.
40:35
But again, I'm suggesting that something's happened to you, but it hasn't.
40:38
What did you say later on? You said, not sure I look for change following our
40:43
conference, but hopefully a jumping off point for areas, topics that I'm interested
40:47
in exploring, but not sure where to start.
40:49
Yes, that's a good point. I mean, I made this title as if we're going to,
40:53
as if the only reason you go to the conference is to learn new techniques to put into clinic.
40:56
But that, it was a little bit of clickbait because I don't think that's why
40:59
you should go to a conference.
41:00
You're not looking for new techniques to put into a conference.
41:02
I'd agree with that, Matt, because when I listened to Michelle Lyons' talk,
41:05
that was the first time I'd heard her.
41:07
And it was a great talk. But for me, it was, I was thinking,
41:11
well, this is an awfully big topic I don't know a lot about.
41:14
But just to take away a few headlines, okay, I know it's there.
41:17
And it's there should i want to look at it and
41:20
i'll go back to her stuff and you've
41:23
got a reference point and it's a bit like amy mentioned earlier there
41:26
was the talk that was given about um i can't
41:30
remember who it was about parkinson's very interesting
41:32
talk and again it was i'm not taking things away
41:35
to use that week but i okay someone's there's
41:39
another flag in the ground i know that's a whole thing
41:42
that's there and being aware of that is valuable
41:45
because it means i can return to it at some point
41:48
if i need it so i yeah so i think emily and
41:51
i probably viewing these things in the same way i think it's really healthy
41:56
for you guys to say that and hopefully for listeners to be reminded of that
41:59
because that is part of the reason of going to a conference is being exposed
42:03
to stuff you didn't even know about and you're not going to learn it all it's
42:06
not like great i could put this to plan great easy i got a new recipe no it's just.
42:11
Making you aware of other populations and potential
42:14
things which people you see could come in with um especially
42:17
women's health and stuff like that which you know historically has been so eclipsed and
42:20
kind of not mentioned for taboo or just you know the patriarchal society
42:23
and all that so yeah interesting points i've seen
42:27
talks in the past where you really
42:30
have to wonder what the purpose is i won't
42:33
pinpoint them but they're sort
42:36
of talking about as an approach and you
42:39
think well look if you're trained in doing that you can
42:42
do it if you're not trained in doing that you
42:45
can now not do it having watched a half hour talk on it and i
42:48
find myself and i've had a few discussions you find yourself
42:51
thinking well this really doesn't serve a purpose and i
42:54
think there are a number of talks that have been around that i would regard as
42:57
they're not really serving a purpose because you
43:00
cannot go and do you cannot go and
43:03
do the thing that week unless maybe
43:06
traditionally that was the idea it was a taster and then
43:08
if you're interested sign up for them i mean if someone's selling a course
43:11
yeah i get that that's an approach but i
43:15
i got the impression that quite a few almost as just you could almost go and
43:20
try this and we go not really not you need to you know you got to go back to
43:24
your core education and bring that up if that's what you want to do if you want
43:27
to develop so that i suppose it in a way it probably it probably falls into the same.
43:35
Problems that we see with CPD in that, you know, we know for the most part, it isn't assessed.
43:43
It's turn up and you get a certificate of attendance. You can literally sleep
43:47
through it and you still get your award.
43:49
Isn't necessarily making you better. If you want to get better,
43:52
your core qualification needs to come up. You know, you need to get stronger at all the core.
43:58
Different components so in a
44:01
way sometimes a conference can just be reflecting that same
44:04
problem which is go here's some shiny stuff you
44:07
can do all the shiny stuff for now and we go no it's not making you
44:10
better you would do i say that in a way yeah did that make sense matt i'm not
44:15
sure yeah definitely yeah yeah definitely thank you yeah and some conferences
44:19
are still based on that it's the model it's quite an old model but it's still
44:22
kind of there and yeah it is dangerous dangerous is probably the best word for
44:26
it is kind of dangerous if you,
44:29
you know it's not like just selling a new way to wash your car although
44:31
that could be nasty for the pain but it's not a good analogy i'm trying to
44:34
think of another now no no good but when you're working with humans and people then
44:37
if you take something away that you think oh well that's going to solve everything and suddenly
44:40
magically everyone who comes into your clinic that week has got the same thing that
44:43
you've learned about which is always interesting it is it
44:46
really is yeah which reminds me of your i
44:49
mean i can't go through this episode without mentioning your
44:52
talk just because i think that was something which i hope loads of
44:55
people didn't expect and your talk was was
44:59
just a great example of hopefully people just sitting
45:02
down thinking oh this i've heard good things about this tris guy let's have
45:05
a little listen to this and it was just you know how would you summarize what
45:09
was the takeaway from your i don't want to put words into your mouth but what
45:12
was the takeaway from your course for sorry from your presentation which you've
45:16
done at therapy expo as well how would that change people in clinic,
45:21
war because i think it would but how would you say well i yes well my.
45:27
I go to some great length to explain why
45:31
everything that goes to make up our experience
45:34
has is is flawed and we're
45:38
naturally because of how our brains work
45:41
and how we perceive the world we're naturally going to
45:44
think we're absolutely brilliant at what we do and we're going to be easily
45:49
fooled into thinking that we're brilliant and we're going to have selective
45:52
memory it's going to remember everything that agreed with we're going to forget
45:55
all the things that didn't and we're going to get quite lost at sea and the
45:59
one piece of advice that I stand by,
46:03
is just don't take credit for
46:06
a good outcome and that's the one thing because when
46:09
it just goes really well all you just got to do is just hold back from taking
46:12
credit and go well that seemed to work good and off we go because i think that
46:19
just helps prevent you falling into a massive pool of self-delusion which is
46:26
what i think we see with a lot of therapists and you know there.
46:31
I had a bit more time.
46:33
I remember a really good talk I watched a few years ago by David Butler.
46:38
It was an early lockdown talk, and it was a good two-hour one that Tim Beams,
46:44
Le Pub Scientifique, they hosted David Butler.
46:47
And he's obviously got 35 years or so, a good career to talk about.
46:52
And it was called something like The Seven Waves or something in this group.
46:56
And he talked about how he kept getting into new things. So he did Cyriax and
47:02
Mulligan and McKenzie, like all these sort of physio add-ons after his initial degree.
47:08
And he was brilliant because he kept using the phrase, and it worked really
47:12
well for about two years.
47:15
And then it stopped working so well. And what you realize is that that is 100% clinician brain led.
47:23
That's the clinician's brain going, yes, this works. It's all in here. Yeah.
47:27
And if it stops working that was all in here as well so
47:31
just distance yourself from thinking it's you so that
47:34
was my point that was
47:37
great it was a nice surprise that was wicked
47:40
and i really think it was a great example of something which can
47:43
affect you in clinic because you're just gonna you're
47:46
just changing the lens a little bit you're just changing which is
47:48
what it's all about suddenly you're gonna if you can just like you say pause
47:51
and think okay this this has worked so but did
47:55
it worked for so and so last week why am i just remembering only the
47:58
good times maybe that's the case i'll tell you a good
48:00
story on this matt i saw i saw my it was actually my
48:03
mate's dad and he just came about a little
48:06
back a little bit of back issue he got and he
48:09
pointed to a pain on his side in the intercostal somewhere that he had for about
48:14
10 years following a pulmonary embolism no idea there it was just a and i just
48:22
thought while we're there let's just go over that and it completely went.
48:27
It completely went. And the biggest mistake I could make is to say,
48:32
well, you see, that was me in me God hands, because of what I'm doing.
48:35
I have no fucking idea how that went.
48:38
No idea why it got better. It helped. I'm not going to own it.
48:41
I'm grateful it happened. So is he.
48:44
And great. Just chalk that up to a, don't know. And I can be quite comfortable
48:49
having no idea what happened.
48:52
Good story isn't it it's cool but i don't think you're taking enough credit
48:56
i mean it was thanks to you you're just not quite sure you're not going to start
48:59
a course on how to you know post hormonal embolism you see what you what you
49:03
do is i'll start a cpd course on managing post,
49:08
hormonal embolism and hormonal embolism intercostal.
49:14
Trademarked technique that requires a
49:17
biannual update course to keep p icp
49:20
course you get the hoodie with the you know and all
49:24
the shit it's nice it's got
49:26
a ring to it that's true but it is cool i
49:29
mean but ultimately you were involved in
49:32
it you were there you were part of the context and something you did but it's
49:35
just not making a blueprint and treating everyone who comes in thinking that's
49:39
what's causing that and which is what sadly what we're taught on courses isn't
49:42
it you know to follow recipes so very interesting amy just out of interest did
49:47
you get to see Tris or was that on day two I can't remember it was on day one
49:52
but I was at something else,
49:54
I'm really sorry in the same way we're competing against the Bake Off final as we school,
50:01
the room's a bit quiet we need the Bake Off final when Claire Mitchell's in
50:07
the other room I'm used to it so fantastic I promise I wish is there a video
50:14
online of you giving that information, Tris?
50:16
Or is it only available if they go and see you? No, there isn't.
50:19
Yeah, that's probably a good thing. Why should it be? No, well, actually...
50:23
I did do one for the MT network. If anybody goes on the MT network,
50:29
which is Canadian, but it's about five, six quid a month. Okay. Is this Pervs?
50:33
Sorry? Is this Pervs, Eric? No, it's... Oh, it's the other guy, Fireman.
50:38
It's Taylor James and Stefania Johnson. Oh, right. Okay, then.
50:42
The Massage Therapists Network. Okay. Yeah.
50:46
So that's a bargain. I'm going to be on there. I'm on there.
50:49
I've done a recording for them.
50:50
Oh, fantastic. Okay. Well, maybe we'll put, if you can find it,
50:53
we'll put it into the show notes. That'd be cool. Cool.
50:55
Right. We're running out of time. Somehow we managed to get through all of that
50:59
without Emily and without Liz.
51:01
Again, don't worry, Emily, don't be sitting there sweating. Really,
51:03
it's fine. And Liz as well. I'm sure there'll be other opportunities.
51:06
I think we've covered some quite good ground.
51:09
There is also the one-day ticket option at Therapy Expo, which I think is something
51:12
which we kind of mentioned before.
51:13
But I think that's, as well as location, it's just having that one-day option
51:17
I think is quite important because it doesn't fit everybody's schedule to disappear
51:20
for two days and the expense.
51:21
So I'm glad Therapy Expo has taken that on board and are offering that out.
51:25
I'm not sure what the price is, but I think it's good that it's there as an option.
51:29
And like I say, that'll be in a couple of weeks. So if you are going to Therapy
51:32
Expo, as always, the STLB there, so come and say hello on the stand.
51:35
And also Anna Maria, there's no hands-on hub as such but the st score will ever
51:41
stand there as well and maria's got a couple of presentations as well so there'll
51:44
still be a big presence from us at therapy expo as always,
51:48
we're gonna have to wrap it up thank you so much tristan attenborough really appreciate it of.
51:53
Movemassagepro.com we didn't mention that before if people
51:56
do want to follow you tris and they like your stuff then obviously you've got
51:58
the website movemassagepro.com
52:00
do you still kind of post stuff on social media where's
52:03
your best place i do well it's
52:06
the same name for for but that i'm trying
52:08
to i'm trying to target the low car with that it's just my
52:11
name for the rest of it okay for chatting
52:14
stuff industry it's just me tristan or
52:18
tris tristan attenborough tristan attenborough so look it
52:20
up just connect and we can yeah you put some
52:23
great stuff out there you're doing some lovely videos at the moment which i
52:26
think are pretty chilled out in nature and you're putting
52:29
important points across but without yeah
52:32
too much you know there's always gonna be a bit of veracity there and kind
52:35
of like cynicism and and hate but it's not as much as maybe in the past it's
52:39
nice you've got some really quality information out there really important points
52:42
the same as emily i would check out emily gilbert as well for just bringing
52:47
people up to be evidence-informed without scaring them and that um and amy healy is it bratshaw.
52:53
Brisha brisha of course brisha i wish i'd never double barreled that brisha
52:58
um thank you so much for joining us as well from kate verdi thank you thank
53:01
you for having me no it's really nice to
53:03
hear your points and the fact that it you know came a good time for you because
53:07
you're getting back into different types of work and that so really cool i appreciate
53:11
that if people do want to follow you and the work you do where should they go i'm on,
53:16
I'm on Instagram under Amy, I think it's underscore HB, but my business is Prior Sports Rehab.
53:24
Prior, which is P-R-A-I-A. It's Portuguese for the beach.
53:28
Thank you very much. Is it really? Portuguese. It's me.
53:32
No, I didn't think you were lying. I don't know why I challenged you then.
53:34
Yeah, Prior Sports Rehab. We'll make sure that those links go onto the show notes as well.
53:38
If you're enjoying what you've heard tonight, then yeah, follow these people
53:41
on social media for more information.
53:43
Next week let me just say we're going to be back on
53:46
tuesday november the 11th at eight o'clock i'm going to be joined
53:49
by rehab guru founders david barron simon taylor they've
53:52
been on the show before but they've got some exciting updates and for
53:55
those of you aren't aware of rehab guru it's a very popular all-in-one platform
53:58
for clinic management and exercise prescription and david and simon are going
54:02
to joining me to talk about some recent updates which includes partnering up
54:06
partnering up with the better clinician project some of you might have heard
54:10
the episode we had a while back with Ben Cormack,
54:12
who's won half of the Better Clinician Project with his co-host Adam Meekins.
54:17
So yeah, David and Simon are going to be talking about that.
54:20
If you are looking for different ways of managing clients and software and all
54:24
this sort of stuff, and also exercise prescription, then it'd be interesting
54:27
to hear from these guys. It might be an option you haven't considered before.
54:30
So they'll be with me on next Tuesday on November the 11th at eight o'clock.
54:35
If you listen to the podcast and want to join us, then like I say, just go along to YouTube
54:39
Sports Therapy Association channel or Facebook page and you'll
54:41
see links for that and you can join us live and ask questions to the guests
54:45
and hang out with the other people who joined us live thank you very much everyone
54:48
who did join us live by the way yeah we'll be back next week and if you're going
54:52
to therapy expo then see you in probably about three weeks now take care everyone
54:56
look after each other look after yourselves bye bye.