Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 395] The Rise & Fall of Men at Work with Greg Prato

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[EP 395] The Rise & Fall of Men at Work with Greg Prato · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You see them in the videos for Who Can It
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Be Now and Down Under where they're goofing around and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: they look at they're like having such a good time
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: at their friends and their buddies. But Colin says that
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: it was pretty much at that time that it was
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: clear to him that this was a band that was
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: not gonna last very long. That PROCs were showing already.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: We're totally bummed rock and roll.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I mean gotta leave you. You're reading Little Hands says
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: it's time to rock and roll.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Rock Up, I totally booked. Welcome back to book Down
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Rock conversations with authors, musicians, and insiders revealing the stories
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: behind classic rocks, greatest songs, albums and artists. I'm Eric Senach.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Before we get started. If you'd like to support the podcast,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: get episodes commercial free, sign up for the Backstage Pass
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: from Patreon for just five dollars a month. Link in
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: the show notesory you can go to book down Rock
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: dot com. Now onto our guest, a returning guest, a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Book Down Rock Hall of famer Greg Prater, who has
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: a brand new book out titled Down Under The Men
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: at Work in Colin Hayes's story. Greg. Welcome, backward to
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: see you again? All right, Hello, everybody knows the name
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Men at Work, but we know little to nothing about
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: their formative years. What became of them? Why do you
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: think that is? Is there a lack of interest or
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: have the band members been unwilling to talk about it
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: other than Colin.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: You know, it's very strange because if you think about it,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: they were probably one of the most visual or most
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: seen bands early on in MTV, with the videos for
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: who Can It Be? Now, down Under, Bego Johnny. Also,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of course, the ballad Overkill was also a very popular
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: video on MTV. So it's funny how they were probably
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: one of the most visual bands, the most covered bands
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: of the time, and yet they just disappeared like pretty quickly,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, from in nineteen eighty three they
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: played the US Festival just below headliners the Clash on
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the US Festival's New Waved and within about two or
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: three years, two or three years later, they're just totally gone,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: finished and forgotten, which is very difficult to do, I
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: mean with a band that was that covered and that successful,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, you know, it's also people
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: know the songs, but like they don't know like, for instance,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Colin Hay's name necessarily, so like they'll know men at work.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: They may even know Business as Usual as the album,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: but you mentioned Colin Hay or Greg Ham, Aron Striker
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and they're like who you know?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Right, So it's yes, this is a band who also
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: won a Grammy Best New.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Artist exactly, and Colin a has a funny thing he's
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: gone on records saying it's the nineteen eighty three Best
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: New Artist Award aka Kiss of Death Award. Because right
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: after that their career well after that, they still had
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: some success with their second album, Cargo, which some people
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: tend to point to that as a sophomore slump album,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: and it really wasn't. It was a very very good
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: album and it did have hits on it, just that
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the problem with that, which I talked about in the book,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: they rush released it because people, some people don't know
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Business as Usual came out in nineteen eighty one in
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: their native land of Australia, it didn't come out to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two here in the States. So what they
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: wanted to do is they wanted to show that they
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: still had an allegiance to their homeland. So even so
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Business as Usual hits in the US in like late
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: eighty two is when it starts its number one run
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: of I believe fifteen consecutive weeks, which is insane if
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: you think about it. But even before that starts, they're
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: already I think they already finished work on their second
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: album because they wanted to put it out, meaning like
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: judging from the timeline of when it came out in Australia,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: so that was a year before the US. Really what
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: should have been done, and this is what even Colin
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Hay admits now looking back, they should have waited and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: not put out Cargo so quickly. They put out Cargo.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I think when Business as Usual was either still number
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: one or it was definitely still in the top ten.
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  Speaker 1: I know that. And there was even like a period
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  Speaker 1: of time where Business as Usual was above Cargo in
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  Speaker 1: the top ten or even on like the charts. So
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  Speaker 1: it was not wise to yes, So it just wasn't
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: wise to put it out so fast, is what I'm
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: trying to say.
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  Speaker 2: The opening chapter is about Colin Hay before the band
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  Speaker 2: even exists, so let's talk about that. Where's he from?
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  Speaker 2: He had a dad who owned a record store, so
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  Speaker 2: that was an advantage for him.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, he's from Scotland originally, and they had to move
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  Speaker 1: eventually because he had a I believe, he says, a
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: wheezing problem. I guess he had either allergies or something
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: like that. So I think just as he was about
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to be a teenage turned to turn into a teenager
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  Speaker 1: around that time. But he had already discovered the Beatles
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  Speaker 1: and his father owned a music store. He sold instruments
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  Speaker 1: and they also sold records. So Colin says how he
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: always felt like he had a little bit of an
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: in because he would always get the records. He would
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  Speaker 1: always hear the records before all his school chums would
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  Speaker 1: hear them. So he'd hear the Beatles and the Kinks
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and the Who and all these great and the Stones,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: all these classic records and bands before the public would
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: actually hear it. So and that's when he starts learning guitar.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't I think until he moved to Australia
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: that he and I think he moved right around I
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: believe it was right around the time of Sergeant Pepper
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, because he says that's an album
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  Speaker 1: that always reminds him of like the Move and that
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  Speaker 1: was an album that really left the lasting impression on him.
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  Speaker 1: I think inspired him to start taking music more seriously
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and that's when we started playing with bands, and by
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the early seventies he's in pub rock bands, playing pubs
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: and also hotels in Australia at the time there were
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of pub rock type things and hotels to play.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know if I mentioned already. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: So from Scotland they moved to Australia where the weather
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: where they moved was a little bit better, you know,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: so just to help his health problem.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where he meets Ron Striker. They so all
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: this begins as those two guys an acoustic duo. So
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: how did they meet and then how does the rest
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: of the band meant at work come together?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yang, they just met just through playing music the local scene.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I know that Colin Hay meets Greg Ham, who's the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: floutist and also saxophone player, through mutual friends. I think
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  Speaker 1: he even met Greg Ham before Ron Striker, before he
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: met Ron Striker. But yeah, Ron Striker he meets in
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the early to mid seventies and they're not playing rock music.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: They're not playing rock music. They're playing acoustic folk type
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  Speaker 1: stuff and I think they were really into. Some of
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the bands he lists that he really liked were I
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: think Steely Dan. He also liked Nick Drake, who is
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a underrated folk singer guitarist who has a tragic tale.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: He died early on from a drug overdose. But he
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: became kind of like a cult figure after his passing
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and he has a whole moon fans. Yes, exactly, great song, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they started playing together a bit and then by the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: late seventies they were in a they got involved in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: a musical, some like Obscure Musical in Australia, and then
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: one by one, through also going to college, they met
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: other people. They met the bassis, they met the drummer,
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  Speaker 1: and then Men at Work slowly forms and again it's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: playing hotels primarily and also clubs. There was like a
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: whole circuit around the whole Melbourne area. And yeah, by
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: seventy nine eighty they were so big that they had
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: to stop playing hotels because it was too small for them.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: The name Men at Work, it's become iconic. Its origin
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: is very simple.
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  Speaker 1: Right, pretty simple. Yeah, For a while they would be
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: playing and they didn't have a name. It would just
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  Speaker 1: say Tonight and Colin or Colin and Ron until I
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: forget who suggested men at work. I think it may
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  Speaker 1: have been someone who worked at a one of the
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  Speaker 1: hotels or bars that they were playing at, and they
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: just kind of like the whole men at work thing
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  Speaker 1: because similar to the US, you'd always see these men
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  Speaker 1: at work signs with you know, people working on roads
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  Speaker 1: and construction and things like that. So that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I guess, just made sense for them at the time,
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  Speaker 1: So why not, right.
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  Speaker 2: And it was fitting and they were working hard, right,
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  Speaker 2: they were playing constantly.
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  Speaker 1: Constantly, Yes, yeah, yeah, they were a very hard working
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  Speaker 1: band and that's what pretty much made them so tight,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and that's what improved these songs. You know, when you're
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: playing every night. That is what Colin says too. You
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  Speaker 1: get instant grad you get instant feedback from the crowd,
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  Speaker 1: you're playing in front of what works, what doesn't work.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And he says something interesting too that I think to
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  Speaker 1: him he quickly realized that he wrote the best songs
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: of the band. That he said there was like going
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: into it, it was going to be a democracy. So
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: if anyone had a new song they would play it
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: in front of a band. But then he realized, at
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: one point, we're just kind of wasting time with these
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  Speaker 1: other songs that aren't going anywhere, whereas he was the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: one that was writing all the songs that eventually became
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the classics. So you know, he does have a point
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that you know, it was it's almost like similar to
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: the Police with you know, Sting is this insanely talented,
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  Speaker 1: prolific songwriter. You have Andy Summers and Stuart Copland who
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: are also very talented, and there wrote some you know,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: good songs for the Police, but there's a it's a
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: quantum leap what Sting is writing compared to what Andy
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Summers and also Stuart Copland is writing. And that was
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: similar to all so the setup within men at work
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: as well.
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  Speaker 2: Then Colin tells you in the interviews that you've done
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: with him, he could tell early on that the cracks
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: start to show, even early in that first year or two.
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  Speaker 1: To me just as a fan at the time, and like,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: looking back, it's like so weird. You know, you see
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: them in the videos for who Can It Be Now
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and down Under where they're goofing around and they look
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: at they're like having such a time that their friends
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and their buddies. But yeah, Colin says that it was
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: pretty much at that time that it was clear to
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: him that this was a band that was not gonna
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: last very long. That cracks were showing already. It seems
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: like him and Greg Hamm were the closest ron striker
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: in him. It seemed like they started to kind of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: gradually drift apart, and the bassist and the drummer they
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: had a whole other viewpoint of how the business should
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: be run and who they were kind of saying that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: certain band members should be fired and like all it.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And they also didn't like the fact that Men at
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Works manager was a old college friend of Collins, who granted,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: it's a gentleman whose name right now escapes me, but
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: he didn't go on. I give him credit that he
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: did a good job managing Men at Work because they
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: their career skyrocketed, but he never went on to do
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: anything after Men at Work. So the bassist in the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: saying we got to get rid of him and get
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: a real manager, and Colin Hey puts his foot down
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and says, no, I don't I want to stay with
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this manager, and that was also a main reason why
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: they broke up is there was like a whole the
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: bassist and also drummer. Well, I should say the bassist
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: name is John Reese and the drummer's name is Jerry Spiser.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I should put that there. But yeah, the manager he
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, So Colin sticks by the manager and then
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: by Cargo, they're already drifting apart. And then after the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Cargo tour is over, the bassist and the drummer are
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: excused from the band.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: That crazy, I mean, none of none of us knew
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that that was going on. You're watching on MTV. Just
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: like you said, they seem like they're all get along great. Yeah,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Alb's blowing up. Everything's good, right, I mean yeah.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: But it just it's so baffling why even like the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: manager wouldn't have been like look, just like let's say
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: it's the same with of course, Van Hallen is the
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: biggest example of this, Like, guys, just sit down, let's
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: talk this over, let's work this out. Fine, you're not
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: getting along, you know, we're gonna take two months off
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: just we're doing nothing for two months. Just leave and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: we're gonna come back in two months and we're gonna
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: work this out, you know, or like to use Van
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Helen as an example, like you know, Eddie and Dave.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I want you guys just to go away for the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: weekend together someplace. I want you to work at your differences.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Come back. When you finally work things out, we're gonna
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: pick you know, I just little you know things like that,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: or you know, it just seems like it could have
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: been worked out so easily, but who knows, you know,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I guess age has to do it. They were young
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: at the time. You don't. Maybe you think it's you know, well,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: we were this successful once. I'll you know, Colin maybe
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: was thinking, oh, I could just launch a solo career
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and I'll have just as much success, you know, or
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the men at work rhythm sections like oh, we'll just
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you know, pick up where with some other band or
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you know, something like that. But of course it's very
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: difficult when you get that type of chemistry within a
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: band and you know, the friction, and sometimes it's not
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: pleasant to be in a band with friction. But that's
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: what makes your Police so great, your Van Allen's so great,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the Ramones so great. Is that friction, you.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Know, the Cricketer's Arms. I was looking through the skinning
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: through the book, I was trying to remember the name
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: of the club that that was the big place there
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: where they really worked on perfecting their their sound and
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: and really gelling as a band, The Cricketer's Arms. So
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: if anybody who's listening from Australia right now or watching,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they recognize that name.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And if if you ever get the chance
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: going YouTube, there's an interesting clip that I came across
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: while I was doing research for the book, Greg Ham
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and also Colin Hey, go back and visit it around
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty five, like right around the time they
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: put out their third album, Two Hearts, and it's a
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: little little tiny like bar. You know, it's pretty crazy
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to think that a band like men at work that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Just a few years later again they were opening up
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: for Fleetwood Mac, opening up for David Bowie and then
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of course their second only Below the Clash at the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three OZ Festival on the New Wave Night.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Three twenty seven Punt Road, Richmond, Victoria. You even got
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that in the book.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Sounds right, yes, sounds great.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Did your homework all right?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So the Davit.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: The debut album Business as Usual, huge commercial and critical success.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Here's some stats here. Released November ninth, nineteen eighty one,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: it spent fifteen weeks at number one in the US
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Billboard two hundred from late eighty two into early nineteen
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: eighty three, five weeks at number one in the UK
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and early eighty three who Could It Be? Now? And
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: down Under both number one singles in the US. Surprising
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to learn how personal who Can It Be?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Was compared to how humorous it sounds?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: What's the story behind that?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Kyle Hey says he was living in a flat, which
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: is another word for a apartment, and he was unemployed.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But there was some He talks about this in the book,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: that there was some kind of slight scam that you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: they were playing in a band and making money, but
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: it was probably either paid in cash so you didn't
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: really have to report it to the attacks man. But
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: then he didn't. He wasn't working to also get like
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I guess, unemployment checks on top of it, so he
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: was always paranoid. Whenever we would hear people coming up
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the door, knocking on his door, there was maybe going
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: to be someone checking to see if he was pulling
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: a scam or if he was looking for work or
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: something like that. He also talks about that there was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a gentleman that lived right across the hallway from him
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that he that he thinks may have been selling drugs.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So he would also get knocks at the door for
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: people looking for that guy, which he again thinks it
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: may have been someone selling drugs. They may confused him.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of paranoia. It was kind of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: like a like a paranoid type of thing, and that
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: was pretty much an do yes. So that was kind
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: of the inspiration for that, and the video reflects that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: will little bit with the classic scene where you see
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: all these weird guys going up the hallway. There's a alien,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I think, and there's a few other there's one of
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the men at work, gentleman dresses a woman. I remember,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: it's all it's all on that video.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But now it makes sense. Who can it be knocking
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: at my door? Tiptoe across the floor.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can't you see? He'll knock all day? Yeah, I'll
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: be trapped in here after day.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Down Under has become almost an unofficial Australian anthem.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: One of my favorite revelations in the book is that
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: the famous flute intro to down Under almost never happened.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Producer Peter is.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It McKeon, McKeon, it's mickey.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: He deserves a lot of credit here on this whole
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: album talk about this particular song though originally a bassline
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: opened the song.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, before the album came out, they actually put out
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a single and it was a song called Key Punch
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Operator on Sriday, which was never on any Men at
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Work albums, and the B side was actually down Under.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: If you listen to the now, the single version is
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: different than the album than the album version that eventually
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: came out, and the single version sounds almost like a
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: completely different song. It's a slower tempo and it also
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: begins it's not the flute playing the famous melody. It's
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a fretless bass, and it's not nearly as catchy and
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: not nearly as bright and upbeat. It's almost like a morose,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: depressing type sound like sounding version of it. So yeah,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon definitely has should deserves a lot of credit
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: for saying no, we have to switch things around the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: same also to backup for the song called who Can
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: It Be Now? Originally live that had a whole other
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: beginning part of the song, and it wasn't until almost
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: not halfway through, but like a good minute in the
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: song that the now classic saxophone part comes in. But
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon heard that and said, no, no, no, you got
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to cut out. The whole minute has to start right
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: away with a drum bit and then right into the
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: saxophone part. And Colin Hay was like, oh, yeah, I
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: never thought about about that, and again that's what we
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: remember about that song. And also with the song down Under,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: if it was a fretless bass, it sounds not nearly
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: as appealing, but with the flute, that's the whole entire
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: hook and that's what made the song such a classic.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And the other single was Be Good Johnny hit number
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: seventy eight on Billboard, and Colin talked to you about
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: that song, which he co wrote with Greg Ham, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: growing up, I always thought it was just a funny
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: song about a mischievous kid, but after reading your chapter,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I came away thinking it's really about celebrating people who
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: don't quite fit society's expectations. Right. What was your takeaway, Yeah,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: that's pretty much.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: It may be also a little bit autobiographical for Colin,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: because he talks about that he only likes to daydream,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and I'm thinking maybe that would have to do it
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe when he was younger, and maybe
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: even moving to Australia before he made friends or something
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like that. Maybe that's a reflection of that. But interestingly enough,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: when I did research for the book, to the best
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: of my knowledge, Be Good Johnny was never issued as
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: a single in America, which is baffling because it had
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a very popular video being played all the time on MTV.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I remember it was right around holidays of nineteen eighty two.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: It was being played a lot, and this song was
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: played a lot on the radio, and it was and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: it was on the charts like for album rock whatever.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think it was ever issued as
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a single in the States. It was issued elsewhere, but
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: never in the States, which is kind of strange. Something
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I talk about in the book too is this was
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: like right before albums like Thriller showed you that you
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: could have more than one single, you could have multiple videos.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Like at that point, really most albums you were lucky
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: if you got two videos max, you know, or two singles, Max,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: then the record company wanted you on to the next album,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and then it wasn't really until say like def Leppard Hysteria,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, you could have like five or
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: six singles.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: In video seven right seven?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Yeah, So that then then you could really milk
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: these albums, you know. So yeah, So an album like
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Business as Usual definitely, I think could have had a
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: larger shelf life if they maybe spaced out the singles
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and the video. They probably could have done more videos
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: if they wanted, But it was onto the next album.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I think a little to a prematurely personally.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, because there are other songs on that album
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: that could have been hits.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and the same also with Cargo too. There's songs
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: one of the best which we'll get to when we
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: talked to Cargo, I think talk about Cargo. I think
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the best song on Cargo has never even issued as
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: a single.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: That's one we will get too. Yeah, business as usual.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Let's see what were the other tracks on?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Oh I Can I Can See It in Your Eyes
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: is probably one of my favorite sure men at Work songs,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: and and Colin says that was actually being considered for
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: the first single off the album, but then they eventually
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: rightfully decided to go with who Can It Be Now,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: which is clearly the more correct choice. But I love
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the song called A song called the Underground is great.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Saxophone Part one has a great saxophone part I love
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Touching the Untouchables is great. Catch a Star is great,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and then and then and then Down by the Sea
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: is such a classic, amazing song. I love that song
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: so much, you know, and then and something else that
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Colin is very uh, you got to give him credit.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: He's very complimentary towards smoking marijuana concerning writing a lot
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: of these songs. Yeah, talks a lot about how like
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: that song in particular, it had it was a certain
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a certain type of pot he was. It was something
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: tripping grass, it was called. And he said, he uh
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: smoked that. And he just was playing a chord and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I forget the chord, he said, but it was like
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I just was sitting on this one chord and it
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: was such a nice sounding chord. And that became down
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: by the Sea, which is one of my favorite Men
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: at Work songs, and when you see them play it live.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: There's some full length concerts from eighty two eighty three
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: on YouTube you could find and when when they do
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that song, it's like a whole other epic type song.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend try to find the live versions of
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: that song.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, vegemite sandwich has become one of those. It's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: it's just something that people talk about right on the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: back of the book.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You know, I have to I have to confess something
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I said to myself before this book comes out. I'm
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: gonna find vegemite and eat it just so I could
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: say what it tasted like. And I just never got
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: around to it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a spread.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: It is a spread. Yes, I actually asked Colin. Hey,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and it's something to do with yeast. It's a yeast extract.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: It's related to beer. But it's not like you know, alcohol.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's and it's not like I don't think
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: it's a sweet tasting thing. I think you put it so,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: you put it on toast, and then I saw like
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: people also put other stuff on it though now too.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But I think you put bread, actually bread butter and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: also vegemite, I think. But there are people like I
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: interviewed Alan Hunter, one of the original mtvvas, and he
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: said he once ate it or someone on him, like
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the MTV crew tried it. They said it was absolutely disgusting.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Well, he brings up. He brings up a great point
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: in the book. Their videos were funny, they were low budget,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: full of personality.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: They never took themselves too serious.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: He never took themselves too seriously. And Alan Hunter made
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: an interesting observation that the videos may have created such
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: a lighthearted image that they overshadowed just how strong the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: songwriting actually was. Do you agree with that?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Possibly? Possibly. I think what really hurt them the most
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: is Rush releasing the second album. And also, I mean
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the manager again and again, because he's only mentioned like
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a few times in the book. His name right now
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: escapes me. But I okay, yeah, I mean I think
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that if they had a manager who was maybe more experienced,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: he would have probably said, you know, guys, we should
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: just take some time off, and you know, we shouldn't
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: split up the band, and we shouldn't excuse the bassist
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and the drummer. We should take some time off and
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: let things simmer for a little bit and come back strong.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: But Russell Deppler, Russell.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Deppler there, he was a college chum of Collins who said,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: you know, if you ever put a band together, I could,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you know, try to help out. And from that I mean,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: but you know, again, to his credit, he was the
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: manager during their success, so he obviously knew what buttons
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to push, But as far as keeping that lineup together,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: didn't didn't do that that good of a job.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Here's a question if MTV never existed, would Men at
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Work would would they still be remembered as one of
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the defining bands of the early eighties.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: That's hard to say. Probably not, because but then again,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: you can say the same about Duran Duran. He could
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: maybe say the same about Quiet Ryet. Like all these
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: bands that used MTV to their advantage, I mean, would
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: with def Leppard, Pyro Main you have been as popular
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: without the videos for Photograph and also Rock of Ages,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I mean even something like
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the Kiss Look It Up video that created such a
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: buzz because they took off their makeup. Would would if
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: it wasn't around, if it was just like, oh, in
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the next issue of Hit Parader, there's a picture of
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Kiss with no makeup. Would that of you know, resonated
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: as much as they look it up? Being look it Up?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Video being played as much as it was at MTV.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Probably not so. There's certain bands that definitely benefited greatly,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and Men at Work was definitely one of the bands
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that benefited the most from MTV and also their videos. Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I just think the songs are so good that they
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: they outlived the video.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely, the play is still being played to this
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: day on the radio. Yes.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: And something else I talk about in the book, Colin
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Hay is a very underrated guitarist. I didn't know until
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: or do you want to wait till we get and songwriter? Yes,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and songwriter. There's a song on Cargo that I'm talking
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: about the guitar which we wait for. Oh yeah, let's
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: let's se' wait till we get the court.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Let's get to that now. Yeah, that's I mean. The
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: book tackles one of one of rock's classic questions, how
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: do you follow a blockbuster debut? And they followed with
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Cargo in late April nineteen eighty three. What did you
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: discover about the pressure that they felt while making Cargo?
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Funny enough, there was no pressure because they completed the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: album before the album took off. In they completed Cargo
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: before Business Usual took off in America, so it was
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: in the can pretty much. I personally think they would
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: have been better served for the band not to have recorded.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Then they should have completed touring for business as usual,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: then gone and recorded, because one thing I've met at work,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: they played a lot of unreleased songs live during that tour.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of live recordings out there. There was
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: one very good album that came out a few years
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: back called Live at christ Church nineteen eighty two, which
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: was on Spotify for a while and they just vanished
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: off and almost half of the album is songs that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: were never on any minute work albums. And you know,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: some of the songs are good, some of them are
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: You could see why they weren't on albums, but you
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: could they're all decent songs and if they were maybe
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: fine tuned a little bit better, they could have been
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: on albums. But yeah, so the pressure they really wasn't
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: pressure because they were they had the album done, they
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: had the songs done, and two the credit. It maybe
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: wasn't as front to back exteller as business as usual,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: but it was maybe just like a touch less It
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: was like, for instance, I mentioned Quiet Riot, there's a
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: huge difference between Metal Health and then the follow up
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Condition Critical. It's just like, oh yeah, two totally different.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Like there's one album you could see why it was
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: such a big MTV hit and everything, and the other
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: one it's like, oh my god, this sounds like Demo.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what, it's not the same band,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: whereas Cargo sounds like a follow up that maybe just
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: would have benefited a little bit more if you just wait,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: made it a little bit longer.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's why this is all like reading the book.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: This is news to me because I always looked at
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: that second album. I never looked at it as geez,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: what what could have been? Or it was a sop one.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, doctor Heckel and mister Jive Overkill It's a
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: mistake are all on there.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And high Wire high Wire video on MTV.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Great song. That's four singles, four solid singles and two
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: huge overkill and it's a mistake. We're two huge hits.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: But we also have to remember that the best song
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: that would probably have been the biggest hit, a song
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: called Blue for You, is never even issued as a single.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: And when I when I asked you, Colin, hey, not
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: that long ago. I was like, why was that never
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: released as a single. He's like, oh, I don't know.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I mean the the label thought Doctor Heckel and mister Jive.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I mean that that's a novelty song.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: But to me, Blue for You has a clear reggae vibe,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: but it's like reggae pop. It would have totally I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: think the people that love down Under would have definitely
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: gotten into that as well. It would have kind of
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: connected the dots. I think that was a top ten
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: single that was very easy. It should have been spotted,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't, and just sure, sure just slipped through
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the cracks. And then also they were playing a song
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: on the tour called The Longest Night, which was never
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: on a Mentwork studio album, which to me is a
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: complete travesty because it's one of their great songs and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: they played it live but never never they even put
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: on the third album, which it should have been on
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the third album because it was played during the Cargo tour,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: which I don't understand why, you know, I guess maybe
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: if you're too if you're in the band and too
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: close to it, you sometimes can't differentiate which songs are
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: better than others, or like which song should make the cut,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: which one shouldn't you need that's I guess why you
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: need a good a good producer or a good manager
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know this song, we need to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: focus on this song. Is the video et cetera, et cetera.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: The Longest Night? I feel like, is that? Is that
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: on Spotify it?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Or is that, yeah, you know there's I believe that
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: live versions. Men at Work put out a live album
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: in the nineties called it was just simply titled Brazil
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: and I think they what it is is they they
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: went back and recorded a studio version, but that was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a live album, was just a studio vert, just one
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: studio track, and it was that. But that wasn't the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: original band anymore. It was just Colin Hay and Greg
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Hammett that point, with some session type guys filling in.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: But again, the stats, I mean they speak of themselves.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: The album peaked at number one in Australia three on
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Billboard eight in the UK. It sold three million copies
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: in the US. Doctor Heckel and Mister Jive Number twenty eight,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Overkill number three.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Overkill is a very big hit.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: It's a mistake.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Number six top ten single exactly. And the thing too
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that I talked.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: About, how many bands would kill to have that out,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Like if that's a debut album, that's a success story
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: right there.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what I talk about in the book, that
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: there's count I mean, zillions of bands would give their
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: left arm to have their second album be that successful.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, they actually did the it's so difficult for
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: bands to avoid the sophomore slump, and Men at Work
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: miraculously did it. And they just fumble the ball, which
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: is completely maddening, Like they actually made it over the hump.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: They did all the heavy lifting, they pulled off what
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: they needed to do. And then instead of again them
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: just saying, guys, let's just take the next year off.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: We're done. We'll come back in late nineteen eighty four.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: We're gonna come back. But no, they just, you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: pretty much pissed it all away, which is such a travesting.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Well that's where we're at now. What followed was what
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: would be the final minute work album, nineteen eighty five's
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Two Hearts.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: You know, let me just quickly jump into I also
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: something I talk about in the book.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Oh you want to talk about a solo too.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: It Colin Hay is besides being a great singer, great songwriter,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: great performer. Two we see his videos like how you Know.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: He's very like nutty wacky, entered hating performer, but his
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: guitar playing is very underrated. I always assumed he was
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: just a very good rhythm player. But in the video
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: for the song called Overkill, that has one of my
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: favorite guitar solos. I love that guitar solo's like a
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's like a Mark Knopfler, a Dar Straits type solo.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: But the video all you see are just the close
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: up of fingers, the fingers on the frets and the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: guy playing. So I always assumed it was Ron Striker
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: playing it. Then going back and doing research for the
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: book watching actual live versions, it's none other than Colin
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Hay playing it. So Colin Hay is a very underrated guitarist,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and he also watching a lot of the live stuff.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: He also does other song He does other solos too.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: On the first album Business as Usual, a song I
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: mentioned before called I Can See It in Your Eyes
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: as a great guitar solo, and that's him again. It's
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: a very melodic, tasteful Mark Knopfler type solos, and those
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: are like my favorite types of song. I mean, we
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: talked about, of course, the great Eddie van Haleen many times.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Of course I like that he's technically gifted. But you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: my favorite Eddie Vanhalen things are when he's not shredding
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: It's twenty. The beginning of you Know Mean Street is
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like one of my favorite I absolutely love that, you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and he of course it's his song perfectly.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It compliments the song and it's understated exactly.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: The solo in the middle of the song ain't talking
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: about love. All it is is just one simple, single thing,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: and it fits the song perfectly. It doesn't have to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: be a vay Malmstein type shread thing. You know.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: you can find all the back episodes of the show,
• 33:43
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• 33:45
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• 33:48
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• 33:53
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• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
• 34:00
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• 34:02
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• 34:05
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• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty five's Two Hearts. None of those singles
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: were big hits. Everything I Need peaked at number forty
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: seven on Billboard, not too bad. But the other singles
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: were Maria hard Luck story in Sale to You. Colin
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Hay later said that by the time Two Hearts came
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: around quote, the band was over, even if I didn't
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: realize it yet. So who exits the band? And why
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: we've just got two members now on.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: This Yes, okay, so okay. So what happens is after
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the cargo tour is done, John Reese, the bassist, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: also Jerry Spyser, the drummer, they're both excused via phone.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I believe Colin Hay calls them and says his quote
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: is your services are no longer needed. That's what he says,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: which again, I mean, you know, you would like to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: think the manager would have been like, Hey, you know, Colin,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea. Let's just try to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: u through. Let's work this out with everybody you know
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: or you know meet. They could have met halfway like
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: all right, look, you know we'll have there's bands that
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: have two managers managed, you know, or like, you know,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: we can why do we bring in a manager that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: we all can all agree on or something like that.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: But no, it was either you know, that was it,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and so those guys leave. Then it's Colin Hay, Greg
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Hammer and also Ron Stryker stay together. They work on okay,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: and then they also decide not to use the producer
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon on this third album, which is a big
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: mistake because if you something else I didn't talk about.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: He listened back to those two albums business as usual,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: almost a cargo. They're not dated sounding. They have a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: very timeless sound about them, and that's why they have
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: aged so well. And that's a huge part of that is,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of course Peter McKeon's production. And I talk about this
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: in the book too. It's crazy to think about. You
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: would have thought that he would have been a much
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in demand producer after two huge albums. You would have thought,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: like big bands would try to go after him, but
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: he never really you know, turned into a big name
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: much so after producer. It's very strange. So and he
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: sadly passed away, not that long ago, maybe like a
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: year or two ago. He passed away. So it's sad
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: they never really I mean, he of course was successful
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: with the men at work, but you know, he never
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: got the qul to you know, produce the cars or
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: you know, Def Leppard or Pat Bennettar, although he wrote
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: a song for Pat Bennettar and wrote a song for
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Barbara streisand but he never got to produce any other
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: big eighties bands, which is a shame because I think
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: he would have done a very good job and he
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: probably would have a lot of these dated sounding eighties
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: productions probably would have sounded better with him as the producer.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: You know, Greg Hammond Colin Hay produced Two Hearts.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Two Hearts, And that's why Two Hearts doesn't that has
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: a dated sound. It's very processed drums. It's that exactly.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: It's that horrible eighties gated drum or. It's like a
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: cannon at which I can't stand that. It just sounds
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: very dated. The materials not as good. There's some songs
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: that are okay, like this song every Day I Need
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I like a lot YEP, that's a good song. But
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I can't help but here you know, if it had
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the Peter McKee in production, if it had the other
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: guys on it, you know, if it had the business
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: as usual production, it would have been so much better.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: And I think you needed Peter McKee in to say, guys,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: like half these songs aren't nearly as good. We got
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: to you know, go back and what's again? What's crazy?
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: They actually had songs on the shelf that were better
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: than a lot of these songs, like the song The
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Longest Night should have been on this album, but for
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: some reason it wasn't. You know, it makes absolutely no
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: sense why you had all these other songs that could
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: have easily been on this album and they just sat
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: there and never got released.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I did give the songs a listen or over
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the weekend, you know, after reading the book and getting
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: ready for the interview, and I gotta say, I gotta
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: defend some of these songs, like Man with Two Hearts,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I like thing I Need a like. I think Sale
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: to You is a good tune. I always like Maria
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: because they included that on.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: A best Yeah, Best of You.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I think hard Luck's Story is another one. Snakes and
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Ladders I like too.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: You know, you know, just it's hard for me to
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: listen to it and not think what could have been,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: And and also the fact that it's pretty much the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: sound of a band just like on its like last legs. Yeah,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's like one of those types of
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: things that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: But I feel like giving up is another one too.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I think I might even dig I got to listen
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: to it again.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just can't. It's like one of those things
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I just can't help. I can't hear it without just
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: seeing the band breaking up pretty much in front of
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: our eyes. And also it should have they should have
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon producing have been so much better.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: But what I remember is getting their best of in
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the late eighties when I was in high school and
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: having no clue what Maria was. I didn't know where
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: those songs were from, you know, Snakes and Ladders, Maria
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: man with two. I'm you know, That's how That's how
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: disinterested I was in met at work, right, I mean
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: in a lot.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Of Yeah, what that is is that's a sneaky label
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: ploy er, a label maneuver. A lot of times, when
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a band puts out an album that doesn't sell well,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: they'll put out a best of after it. I know,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: for instance, Rat did this, well not Rat, but Rat's
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: label did this. They put out you had me on
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a while back talking about the book I did about Rat.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: They put an album called it was called Detonator, which
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: was not one of the better albums, and they put
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: out a best of shortly thereafter, in like half the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: songs almost different songs from that album. And it's similar
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: to this Ultimate at Work thing. Is like the record labels, well,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: you know, why don't we pad it with songs from
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: this album that no one really knows. Who knows maybe
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: one of these songs will become a hit or you know,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: maybe you know something will happen, you know, who knows.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: But that just you're kind of taking advantage of the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: poor bastard who's buying the CD, who now isn't getting
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: turned on to, you know, great a material. Now you
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: have this Grade B and also grade C, do do well?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: What's funny is I can't even see I'm looking on Wikipedia.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I can't even it might have been one of those
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: cheesy best of compilations that wasn't even a major label deal.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: It was okay because I just seemed to remember getting
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it in the late eighties, and they didn't. They put
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: out a best of eighty one to eighty five in
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. Maybe maybe I bought that in I.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Think the one you may have had was called contraband
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that the one they came out.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it was in the nineties that I got it.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that one I remember I bought for a
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: friend and I remember listening to with him and like,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a second, Like I don't even know
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: half these things. And it was because it was Yeah.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Half the songs that were on Yeah and something else
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: to I forgot to mention men it work put out
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of non album B sides for Cargo and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: also Business as Usual, and again not all of them,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: but a few of those songs are better than what
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: was on To Hearts. So again they needed someone like
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon to say, you know, guys, like you know,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: some of these songs just they're not nearly as good
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: as what we had before. We got to make sure
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: at least it's up to par quality wise and material.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: But that never happened. Well.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: The album peaked at sixteen in Australia fifty on the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: US chart, and that was it.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: At that point. Honestly, I wasn't that big in a
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: minut at Work anymore. Like I bought the two albums
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: when it came out. By eighty five, I'm pretty much
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: really into heavy metal at this point. But I remember
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: still watching MTV, and I have no recollection of seeing
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: any of those Men at Work videos from the Two Hearts.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: It was just like that, that album just came and
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: went so fast. It was It's insane to think that
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: how popular they were just a year or two before.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: To just it was like someone just flicked a switch.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, if they were playing him, it might might
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: have been late at night, in the overnight, you know. Yeah, So,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: after everything that happened with Men at Work, Colin Hay
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: made that decision to abandon the band name altogether and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: move forward as a soul artist. How difficult was that
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: for him?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first it was difficult, He says he pretty much
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: had to start from scratch, because he admits that, aside
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: from like diehard Men at Work fans, the name Colin
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Hay never really you know, Sting connected with the Masses,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: David le Roth connected with the Masses, like their names,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: but for some reason the name Colin Hay never connected
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: with the masses. I mean, people know him from his look,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you know, but they don't know his you know, lesser
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: known people don't know his name necessarily. So it took
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: him a few years. But to his credit, he never
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: stopped touring and putting out solo albums, so he was
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: able to build up a solo career and also a following.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: And then he also, like I talked about in the book,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: he got the call to be a member of Ringo
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Starr's All Star band and he's been a regular member
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: of that for like the past like almost decade or
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: something like that, which in turn has brought a whole
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: new level of interest to men at Work. And also
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: bands and artists have covered men at work. Mentworks songs
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: are on TikTok all the time, They're in your TV
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: shows and things like that. So I talk about in
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the book men at Work. Now, maybe they're not as
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: popular as they were in eighty two eighty three, but
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I'd say there are definitely second to that. Like I'd
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: say eighty two eighty three is their peak, and like
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I would say, now is you know right kind of
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: below that that just as far as people, you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: still listening to the music, it popping up, people covering it,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: you know, just the awareness of those songs and commercials
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: and things like that. Sure, so you know, and then
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: also now and also now Colin hay torres as Men
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: at Work even though he's the only he's the only
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: real Men at Work member from the good old days.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: But you got two mega hit songs that everybody knows,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: who Can It Be? Now? Down Under? You got at
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: least a handful of songs that everybody recognizes. I mean,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you could you know, he could throw off of that.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: And he's got a full right there. And I remember
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: hearing his acoustic version of who Can Have Been Out?
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know where that's on. He's very bad, heard
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: it on TV show as a man.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, he's incredibly talented, a incredibly talented gentleman. I'm it's
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: kind of baffling that his solo career, I mean, because
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: he has great solo songs and solo albums. He has
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: a great song called Waiting for a New Life to Begin,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: which is a classic, it's a classic song amongst his fans,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: and that's a solo song. And yea, you hear his
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: solo albums, and there's always like some songs like, oh,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: this could have been a good men at Work song
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: back in eighty three, or you know, or this would
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: have been better than the Two Hearts album if they
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: just just put this out as a menic Ark album
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: back in eighty five.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and he's got a distinct voice too, he
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: does to me. If you hear it, you know it's
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: him if you're of a certain age group. So when
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: the band was inducted into I think it's pronounced the
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Area Hall of Fame, it's the Australian Recording Industry Association's
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame in nineteen eighty four, it was one
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of the few times the original members shared a stage. Again,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: did that moment create any genuine hope for a full reunion?
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't all the members, it was for them.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: The guitarist Ron Striker did not show up, okay, but
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: that's one of the few times that Greg Ham and
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: also Colin Hay showed up or were in the same
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: spot as the bassist and drummer who they split from,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: John Reese, and also Jerry Spiser. So yeah, they were
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: all on the same stage and Colin Hay said the microphone,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: He's like, it's a shame. He said something like to this, like,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: it's a shame that it takes something like this for
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: us to all be on the same stage together, which
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: you know, you would think fans hearing that at the
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: time must must have gotten their hopes up, saying, oh,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: maybe this means that the classic men at Work lineup
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: will get back together, And it meant Meant at Work
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: did eventually get back together a few years later, but
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: just Colin Hay and also Greg Ham, not the other guys.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
• 46:06
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• 46:08
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• 46:10
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• 46:14
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• 46:16
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• 46:26
  Speaker 2: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: to the show. Nineteen ninety six, Colin and Greg Ham,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: they revived Minute Work, They toured South America with new musicians.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Were there ever any serious discussions during that period, which
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: was ninety six to ninety eight, about expanding the lineup
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: into a full reunion or was it understood from the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: beginning that this was just Colin and Greg.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Now I just known. It was just understood it's going
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: to be Collin and Greg because a can make more
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: money that way, right, you know, and then also be
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Colin says that well. Later later on there was some
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: problems between Ron and also Colin. Ron was arrested over
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: making threats or something like that against Colin, And yeah, Colin.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I went into Colin about a year ago. I asked him,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you know, are you still in contact with any of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: the surviving Men at Work members? Because sadly Greg Ham
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: passed away a few years back. But I asked him,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: are you in contact with any of the other surviving members?
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: And his answer was just no, and that was it.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: That's it, And it didn't expand on it. And I
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: didn't want to, you know, pursue that because clearly he
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: just has that behind him and he's just happy just tour.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: He tours with the same band as a solo artist,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and also his men at Work. Just when he plays
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: as a solo artist, he plays more solo songs with
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Cement at work songs of course in there men at
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: work when he tours, his Men at Work is primarily
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: just men at work with maybe like just one or
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: two solo songs.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Colin, he's got publishing on all these right.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he wrote He either wrote or co wrote almost
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: all the songs on those albums. All the hits he
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: either wrote or co wrote. Yeah. Then something we talk
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: about though, is there was a whole legal problem with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: down Under. About fifteen or twenty years ago, a publishing
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: company came out of the woodwork and said that down
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Under had a similar melody line to a Australian children's
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: song called Cuckoo Barra in the Old Gum Tree or
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: something like that, which me as a United States gentleman,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I never heard that song before, but you hear it
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: in the melodies, you know, kind of similar. But I
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I think it was pretty much
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: just someone trying to look for money and they wanted
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: something insane like fifty or sixty percent of the publishing
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: or something crazy. And Colin Hay was forced to take
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: to to take him to court, and he claims he
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: had to blow like millions of dollars in you know, fees,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: but he said it was worth it because he's not gonna,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: you know, bend over and take it just what just
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: because a guy's threatening you, you know, so so he
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: fought them, yeah, and then he was able to So
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: they worked out a deal that that this publisher guy,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: I think something like ten percent or something like that,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: but not nearly as much as they wanted. But sadly,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Colin has a theory that he thinks that played a
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: role in greg Ham's depression and he also developed a
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: drinking problem greg Ham did, and that led to his passing.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Just because greg Ham was depressed that he felt that
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: people would always think of him as the gentleman that
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: played the flute part in dn Under and that they
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: would think of him as like a rip off artist,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: which nobody would have thought. No, I know exactly.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: It's so sad to read about that. The lawsuit was
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: an nine. And then Gregham died of a heart attack.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I think yeah, we could look it up.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was all so like depressed and he yeah,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: like I said, Collins said, he developed a drinking thing,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: was his quote later in his life.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, he died in April of twenty twelve at
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: the age of fifty eight, and it really devastated him, he.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Did, yeah, he said, to this day. To this day,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: he said, it still upsets him that Greg Ham passed away.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: He said he always envisioned him and Greg growing altogether
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: and yeah still you know, possibly playing music and having
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: fun together. But yeah, it just wasn't meant to be.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Sadly, well, yeah, did you feel it was important to
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: remind readers that Greg Ham's legacy should be defined by
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: his extraordinary musicianship rather than the lawsuit.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, absolutely. Yeah. People don't know he I
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: don't think really took He taught himself the flute and
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: saxophone and all these things, which is crazy as you
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: think about it.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: It was his sister that said she came home from
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: school somebody, yeah.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Lived with He lived with a house full of people
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: and there was a woman that lived there who played
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: flute a little bit, and he would just take the
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: flute when she wasn't there and play it. But he said,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: which was kind of disgusting, is after you play a flute,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: you got to clean it because he gets spit and saliva.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: And he would just take it and put it back
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: in the case and just and when the girl, when
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: the woman noticed it, she's like, oh, well, now you
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: could pay me, and this is yours now, and he
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: he paid it. But then he then took it, as
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I guess, a sign, to learn it. And he taught
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: himself a flute and he was a great, great flute slo.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I put him up there with Ian Anderson, right,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's It's just it's terrible that that that
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: he actually that that weight on him so heavily, because
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't the fans certainly wouldn't have viewed him that way.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: And no I would have. I mean I that would have.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I never ever would have thought of that.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It was it was mentioned during a game show, right
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: that was it was just an.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Oh by the way, it was I think so. I
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: think so.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I made mention of it, and and the the musician
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: or whoever owned publishing on it was watching and said, oh, well,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: I think I should just sue them, you know, like
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: there was that Yeah.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: What it was was the original writer of the song
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: passed away in the late eighties, and somehow his publishing
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: then got transferred to someone else.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: And that person saw the TV show.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they saw the TV show, but
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: somehow they put two and two together, possibly that and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: then yeah, and then they went after they went. They
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: didn't even go after Greg Ham. They went after Ron
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Striker and also Colin Hey. I believe those are the two.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Let me double check that. I'm pretty sure those are
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: the two gentlemen that wrote down under Yes.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which made Greg probably feel.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Worse yes because he played yes.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: They shouldn't have to. One thing I appreciated about the
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: final chapters is that you update readers on what everyone
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: is doing today, what did they go on to do,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: and which former members post minute work Journey surprised you
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: the most, if at all.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Well, probably one of surprising the most is the drummer
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Jerry's became a teacher, so that's what he went on.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: He actually after he left Men at Work, he was
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: in a very short lived band with Peter McKeon. I
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: forget the name of the band, but they weren't very good,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: and I talk about it in the book. They only
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: put out one album and it's it sounds like Genesis,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: like eighties Genesis, but not nearly as good. Yeah, okay, so,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: which is a shame because he was actually a great drummer.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: That's the one thing. You you watch Men at Work
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: shows from eighty two eighty three, they're all great musicians,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: great singers. You know that very sad. That's such a
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: talented band. Just you know, it's it's one of those
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: bands similar to my beloved Blind Melon that just you know,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: you wish there was more albums of that classic lineup,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: you know, I just wish there was more Shannon hun
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Blind Melon. I wish there was more of Men at
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Work with that business as usual lineup, you know, with
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Peter McKeon as the as the producer. But the Bassis
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: still plays in a low he lives in I believe Australia.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: He plays in like a local band, greg Ham said
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: deceased Colin Hey we know still plays solo and plays
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: as part of Ringo Stars All Star Band and then
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: and then Ron Striker. Interestingly enough, in the nineties or
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: early two thousands, he put out an album that I
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: never heard of until I was doing research for this book,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: and it's like Middle Eastern music, and it reminded me
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of the George Harrison songs, the Middle Eastern
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: sounding songs he did with the Beatles, and some of
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the songs are very interesting, very melodic, and all I
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: could think of is, like, this would have been so
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: interesting if like one of these songs was on a
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: minu at work album with Colin Hayes singing. It really
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: would have been so unique and so cool to have
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: like one of the cause Again, it's a very unique
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: sounding song. It's Middle Eastern, but it is melodic, has
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: pop type things, so it's I just said that they
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: just couldn't get along and they you know, no longer
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: or even in kind tech with each other, because I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: would love to hear what Ron Streiker and Colin a
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: could do if they were to get together and you know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: collaborate again. But sadly, I think that ship has sailed
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a long time ago.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: The book Down Rock Podcast is part of the Boneless
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: podcasting network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot Lovable
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Dot app to find over twenty great shows there that's
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Boneless down Lovable dot app or just go to bookdown
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: rock dot com, the Boneless podcasting network. It is what
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: you want to be listen with confidence. It's just great
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: that a book is out on this band because they
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: certainly deserved it. Down Under the Men at Work in
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Colin Hay Story to Cover again.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: By Rado Yep, yeah, Umber by Mary.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's out now. It just came out.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just came out. It's available as paperback, hardcover
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: and kindle and very shortly audio version with me doing
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: the the whole narration and yeah, you know again. The
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: reason why I've done all my books, and especially this
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: book is I always wanted to read a book about
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: men at work and also Colin Hey, it really has nothing,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it's funny, Like all these books I've done,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: I've never done a book like think like oh this,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I just want to do a book that's gonna, you know,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: supposedly make me a lot of money. Of course, I
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: will take the money if it comes my way. But
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: but every single under Dogs, Yeah, but every single book
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I've ever done. It's it's a subject that I found
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: interesting that I wanted there to be a book about
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to read about, and so yeah, that's
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: why i've you know, what happened was I talk about
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: in the book too. So I loved Men at Work
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: when they first came out. I had Businesses Usual and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Cargo like a lot of other people. I lost interest
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: after that pretty much, just because I got into heavy
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: metal at that point, you know, and just but then
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: in the early nineties I started to listen to all
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: styles of music, like because alternative rock and grunge kind
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: of broadened my listening at that point. So then I
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: started listening to, you know, jazz and funk and all
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: other styles of music. And then there was a weird
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: thing like, oh, you know, I you know, let me
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: listen to some of this stuff I used to listen to.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: And then I remember I bought Business as Usual on
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: CD around ninety two ninety three, and I was blown away.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I forget how good this is.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: And then I got Cargoing. I was like, wow, Cargo
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: is great too, And I just never bothered to get
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Two Hearts because I just didn't remember. I didn't buy
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: it when it came out, so I didn't know any
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, listening back to it, it just
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: never really flowed to my boat.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Yep. But this book answers the question. I think a
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: lot of people were asking, what the hell happened? You know,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: this band was huge, and it simply was really a
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: matter of it just wasn't a democracy as Colin a
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: had hoped. It's just that he was the guy, he
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: was writing the song, and there was just there's no
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: way it was going to work. From day one. I
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: think he had he pretty much knew.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's just crazy, how there's
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: no way to predict if a band is gonna like,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: you know, looking at Men at work in eighty two
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: eighty three, you would say, look, especially after eighty three,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: after they, like I said, avoid the whole a dreaded
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: a sophomore jink, sophomore slump thing. You think, all right,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: well now they're just home free now, Yeah, so that's it.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: They were able to do it, but no, they just
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: totally imploded. You know. It's weird how just there's no
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: way to predict if a band is going to stay together.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Not how you know, a band like Pearl Jam stays
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: together for decades, but a band like Men at Work
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: is only supposed to be there for two or three albums,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: you know, the same with you know, Jane's Addiction, Blind
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Melon with Shannon Hun. You know, there's certain and I
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: you know, Van Halen with David Ly Growth was I
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: guess only good for those albums, you know, of course,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: not counting a different kind of truth, but that Van
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Halen with Davidly Growth lineup was only meant to be
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: seventy eight to eighty four, I guess yeah.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: But can you imagine, like men at we're getting Mutt
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Lang to do their next album?
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, I know, yeah, just get in there.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: And really like say, hey, guys, your first two albums
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: were great. Let's let's take us up a notch.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that would have been great, or honestly,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, really they should have just stuck with Peter McKee.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: And I mean I feel the same way we talked
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: about the last time I was on about Smashing Pumpkins.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I think they should have just stuck with Butch vigas
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: their producer. As soon as Butch Vig left it just
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I lost total interest and I never really liked another
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins album. Or there were certain songs I thought
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: were okay, but no album of the Smashing Pumpkins ever
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: came close to what I felt about Gish and Siamy's Dream,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: and the same with also Meant at Work after Business
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: as Usual and also Cargo. It was never the same. Yeah,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: that's why you got to get this book.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: To get the book, got to get the book, all right, Greg,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: thank you. Let's plug whatever people can find you online
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: social media. Also you write for Ultimate Guitar, so.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, you're right for Ultimate Guitar, All Music write a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: little bit for all these places, and yeah, go to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Amazon dot com do a search for Greg Prado. That's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: where you could find this book down under the Men
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: at Work and Colin hay Story, as well as all
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: my other books that I've talked about. Every book on
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I think we've covered, I mean, except for the sports ones.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: I'll get a.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Sports okay, I'll to skip over, but yeah, pretty much
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: every single music when we've talked about. And then also
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: you can go to x dot com slash Greg Prado writer.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I'm always posting my latest articles for Ultimate Guitar and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: also All Music there so you can check that. And
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I'm also posting when I have my new books and
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: also interviews that I do like. For instance, I'll share
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: this link to this interview. And since I'm always about giving.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: You scoops, Oh boy, here we have.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: A book coming out for the holiday season. Because holiday season,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you got to put a book out, right, you have to?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, unfortunately, hears.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, Unfortunately, I cannot tell you who it is exactly,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: but I will give you a hint. It is it about?
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: It is deal? It deals with a pop culture icon,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: an all time pop culture icon.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: All right, and is it music related? Do we have?
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: There is an aspect of music? He was not a musician,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: but this, Oh wa wait, I said, he so, okay,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna say who it is?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Scott Bea Oh wow, the legendary Scott BeO. I'm just kidding.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I'd say, hey, you know, I you
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: know I speaking of that.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: You remember Joni and Tracci? Right, Yes, of course I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I met what was her name?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, Aaron Moran?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Aaron Moran.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Right, I went sadly, sadly passed away.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I went to a horror festival once. This is like,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen years ago whatever, and at the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: table is the guy who plays Mykel Myers in the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: first movie. There's like three different ones, but he's the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: one where like they pull them Jamie Lee pulls the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: mask off right right, Tony Moran. I start chatting with
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: the guy. He's like, yeah, you know my sisters and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: it was an actress too, she was in The Happy Days.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what, oh, yeah, Tony Moran and Aaron Moran. Yeah, brothers, and.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: They're also sitting at that table. Wasn't wasn't also Gary
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: A Sharon at that table as well.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Garry Cheron was there and he's just looking around. He's like,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: is anybody gonna come to me and ask me to decide? No?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Stop it, stop it? But yeah, okay, So it's a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: pop culture.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pop culture icon and there is definitely music elements
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: to it. And I did interview well known musicians for it,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: so yeah, there is definitely a music connection. So yeah,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: you have to have me back on.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean we got to we're counting the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: days here. We're counting the days, all right, Greg, thanks
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: as always, go out and get that book on then
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: at work. It's out now, Greg Brado, thank you, sir
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: as always.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you Eric Audios. That's it, it's in the box. M.