Latest / Around the House with Eric G®: Home Improvement Remodeling & DIY / Light It Up: The Ultimate Guide to Home Lighting Design

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Light It Up: The Ultimate Guide to Home Lighting Design · Around the House with Eric G®: Home Improvement Remodeling & DIY

• 0:36
  Foreign.
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  It's the nation's number one home improvement radio show and podcast with certified kitchen designer Eric G.
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  And co host John Dudley, a former contractor and online technology expert.
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  Delivering real fixes, smart tech and trusted advice.
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  Remodels, repairs, energy savings, smart homes, diy.
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  We've got your answers.
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  It's around the house.
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  Dive in and get inspired.
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  Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.
• 1:13
  Thanks for joining me today.
• 1:14
  I'm Eric G.
• 1:16
  John Dudley is out on assignment but sitting in the co host seat today we got Wendy Glaser.
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  Wendy, thanks for coming back on the show again.
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  Hi.
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  So nice to see you, Eric.
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  I'm so excited to be here.
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  It was nice of John to approve me as a standin for a short while.
• 1:32
  Yeah.
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  Excited for you to get to talk to Carrie Arnold, the lighting designer.
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  I get to do so much work with here locally.
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  This is going to be a lot of fun because all you guys out there that are normal listeners of the show, you know, you've heard Wendy and and her interior design firm and stuff that she does out there
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  with Wendy Glister Interiors.
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  And now we've got lighting in the house.
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  Kerry Arnold, welcome to the show.
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  Hi.
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  I'm so happy to be here.
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  Excited, excited.
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  We were talking right before we hit record here and I tell you what, lighting is one of the most misunderstood in your home.
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  And I'm talking just between the contractor and the electrician.
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  Many times, there's so many times that I'm seeing a house getting framed up and I'm talking to a client and they're like, oh yeah, the electrician's just going to come in and put in the 6 inch can lights.
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  And I'll be honest, if I never saw a 6 inch can light for the rest of my life, I'd be kind of happy because there's better options.
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  Totally unnecessary, misguided and unnecessary and not on purpose.
• 2:31
  People a little slack because the times that people actually think about lighting in their lifespan in a context of oh, now's the chance that I can do something about it, they don't know where to start or even are
• 2:45
  aware of what's possible for them or the questions to ask.
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  And unfortunately the lighting industry and the lighting technology has shifted so much over the past two decades that even if somebody knew a little bit about it 10, 15, 20 years ago, it's totally new world.
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  And that applies to contractors and electricians.
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  Some of them just don't keep up to date with every twist and turn in the industry, so it can be a challenge.
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  And as Wendy probably will say, I always say this with my clients.
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  That rarely is the electrician, the lighting designer as well.
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  So that's why you need to bring in the experts for this.
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  It's.
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  It's.
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  It's just not the case.
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  And this is my most hated.
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  And I don't like to talk about things I hate, but this is one of them.
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  Well, we've always done it that way for 30 years.
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  I'm not changing it again.
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  And my thing I always throw out is, well, you've been doing it wrong for 30 years.
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  Why don't we stop that now?
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  That's right.
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  It's interesting, Eric, because I imagine if you and Carrie were on a job site together doing a project, the experience you would have would be a little bit different than it is when Carrie and I are on a
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  job.
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  Because typically the electricians are men, and electrician that you're speaking of the guy who's done it the same way for the last 30 years.
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  It's so hard to win them over.
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  It's so hard to explain.
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  No, I want to collaborate with you.
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  I have this extremely knowledgeable person that I get to work with, Carrie Arnold.
• 4:27
  And we have these neat ideas, and we're so excited to do it with you and to give you the credit at the end and.
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  But, oh, it's just.
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  It's.
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  It's like so threatening.
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  And I don't understand why, because it makes such a huge difference when the lighting is right, when the color temperature is consistent, when you can dim it from anywhere.
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  I'm really jealous because Carrie just put this really cool thing into her house on the switches where she has control from her phone or the switch itself.
• 5:00
  And there's scenes and all these great things because there are way too many switches in this new house.
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  And I'm desperate to try it.
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  But I know that I'm gonna talk to an electrician.
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  So I'm just gonna try to make Carrie some fancy dinners and have her come over and do it for me.
• 5:16
  It's not that hard, right, Carrie?
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  It's really not that hard to go back and rent.
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  I know I get intimidated like clients do.
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  I would add to what Wendy is saying where sometimes you're really trying to hold your own against the contractor, the electrician, what have you.
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  I'm in a unique situation where I deal with a light design and lighting projects, but also I own a lighting store.
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  And so sometimes we.
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  Sometimes we slip into a project because we're brought in by the, the designer, the electrician, whatever.
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  But oftentimes it's because it's the homeowner that comes in and starts talking to us first.
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  And then their eyes are open to all of the things that they either a, should have done or hopefully still have a chance to do.
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  But they get excited.
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  Yeah.
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  About using, about, about having some really awesome lighting in their house.
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  And then they're intimidated because then they have to have that conversation with the installer.
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  And I feel like I often have to run interference with, with that customer and say, hey, I don't know your electrician, but I'm happy to talk to them.
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  I'm happy to have them come in and show them the product, walk them through it, because if we don't get those people on board, it's never going to happen.
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  And it's come to the point where the homeowner will purchase product because they understand what they're supposed to do with it, but then it comes back because their installer says, we can't do this in your home.
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  Which is very frustrating.
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  Yeah.
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  I had a distinct advantage of being the six foot tall bearded tattoo guy with the electrician to go, well, we can either collaborate or I'm going to give you a plan that you're going to have to follow.
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  Would you like A or B?
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  And that's, you know, someday come on.
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  Job sites with me.
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  I know it.
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  We can do this the easy way or we could do this the hard way.
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  And I'd really like to do it the easy way, but if you want it the hard way, we could do it that way, you know.
• 7:19
  Yeah.
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  Well, Wendy and I have had a few of those situations on her projects where many we've had to do a little intervention.
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  It's funny because now it's.
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  People that work with me regularly will say, I knew we were in trouble when your smile got bigger.
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  It was coming.
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  I'm not going to be deliberately mean or impolite or insulting, but I'm also not going to back down because the benefit of having Carrie execute a lighting plan in a home or in a commercial space is so significant
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  to me and to the ultimate outcomes that I'm hoping to achieve in these projects.
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  It's worth a few moments of tense exchange because without that kind of design and that kind of knowledge, it will not turn out the same.
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  It's just been so much fun to see all the wild things that we've been able to do with lighting that we never thought we could because it's not really.
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  I've Learned this from Carrie.
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  It's not really so much about the fixture anymore.
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  It's about where we can place the light that you may not even notice it's there.
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  But this huge change that comes to pass.
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  And it's nice because as a designer, I can't know everything about everything, so I get to know experts about their specific areas.
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  And it's been so much fun working with Carrie that way because it's just, it's completely transformed my business and my work, honestly.
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  I mean, the last five jobs I've won major ASID awards for been the lighting designer.
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  And I don't think that's an accident.
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  Yeah, no, it's true.
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  And so for designers that want to listen to your pride, to your podcast, or homeowners that want to listen, they really need to understand that a lighting designer is probably your best friend in this renovation.
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  Absolutely.
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  Because that contractor, that electrician, and there's plenty of great electricians out there.
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  I want to make sure and say that there's a lot of, yeah, exciting, cool.
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  We're gonna have some fun.
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  There's a lot of those out there as well.
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  So I don't want to be bashing on electricians here.
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  But at the same point, you know, if you get the main contractor, the general contractor on board, then the electrician will kind of fall into line.
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  That maybe is pushing back a little bit.
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  But lighting has changed so much.
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  Just in, you know, the 70s we had recessed can lights and okay, is it that square 60s one with the little thing that hangs down 6 inch can light with a 100 watt bulb in it, you know, so
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  I think.
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  We're really starting to see some changes in the approach that, that people are taking to a designer high end lighting scheme.
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  You know, we've been in, in a multi decade trend of having recessed lighting everywhere in every room and it's just almost not necessary.
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  And we're looking for more unique lighting schemes and it comes at a time when there's ever more options available for architectural lighting.
• 10:20
  If you want to find out more about the around the house show, head to aroundthehouse online.com we will be right back with more lighting design discussion with expert Carrie Arnold after these important messages.
• 11:55
  Welcome back to the around the house show.
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  If you want to contact the show or find out more, head to aroundthehouse online.com now let's get back to talking lighting design with Carrie Arnold.
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  And Wendy and I have done some projects together where we've used a lot of the mud in products.
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  We're Doing a lot of specialty indirect lighting coves backlighting of things.
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  And if you put recessed lighting over the top of all that, you're just going to blow it out.
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  And one of the things that people often don't understand about a lighting scheme is that it relies so much on contrast.
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  Having good lighting doesn't mean that you have the same lighting level everywhere in a room.
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  Who wants a spotlight recess can sitting over their sofa, shining on the top of their head while they're trying to relax?
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  Nobody wants that.
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  It's like, you must talk.
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  We need to get your information.
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  Yes, yes, yes.
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  And it's almost like you, you want people to think of somewhere that they've been that they've really enjoyed the feeling of the room.
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  Like, how did it feel?
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  Warm and inviting.
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  And if, if you're not trained to really look around and notice what that looks like in the room from the lighting perspective, it's hard to replicate that.
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  It's such a hard message to get across.
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  Especially in a world where people are putting these pancake disc lights in everywhere.
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  Yeah, gosh, this should be illegal.
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  People say, well, they're, they're cheap and easy to install.
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  Okay, well that's great.
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  In your high end remodel or new construction, what else are you putting in that building that's cheap and easy to install?
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  Why don't you just.
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  If you're looking for cheap and easy, I'll just go buy the yellow job site lights that string around the house and just go down.
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  I mean, why not?
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  And you can move them around where you need them.
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  That's for the man case.
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  Yeah, right.
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  But you know, it's funny and I, a couple of years ago in my house that I sold this last October, I went in and said, you know, LED strip light underneath the, the top edge of the leading edge
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  of my stairs.
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  And I had a contemporary staircase that completely changed that great room and the lighting in there just from staircase lights.
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  Oh, it's a big deal.
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  And it took a little work because there's so much framing around there.
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  But I retrofitted it, made it work, took a lot of time to do it.
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  I was replacing the stair treads at the time, so it worked out well.
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  Oh, perfect.
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  You know, so I was like, all right, we can do this.
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  And it was a game changer.
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  And then in the middle of the night, if I had to run downstairs to get something out of the fridge, those lights were always on.
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  I never turned them off because it was just that that glow was so awesome.
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  And it was such a different light.
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  Yeah.
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  I have a similar story.
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  I live in a house that's almost 100 years old, and I've lived here 25 years.
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  And during COVID one of our Covid projects was we finally had the house rewired because we were convinced probably going to burn down.
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  And we took out all the old knob and tube.
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  And so I was finally able to add lighting and lighting controls to this house that I didn't.
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  I simply didn't have the wiring and some very small recessed lights and cabinet lighting.
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  And I did the warm dimming and.
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  And I had a lot of fun planning it out.
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  My husband was like, what the heck are you doing, lady?
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  But I.
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  Yeah, he just said when I was.
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  He's like, just tell me what button to push.
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  So I want to know.
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  But it's like a whole new house.
• 15:29
  Yeah.
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  Totally different experience being in this home with good lighting versus you know, pretty much nothing.
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  So, yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's unbelievable what lighting can do.
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  And it's exciting when you can find ways to get others excited about it.
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  The very first time I get to meet a client in their home, so, you know, you have a phone call and then you go and you meet with the client for the first time.
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  Initial consultation is what we call it.
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  I bring up Carrie and I say, this is if the scope makes sense.
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  This is a beautiful project.
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  You want to accomplish a lot in here.
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  I recommend that we also include the services and the talent of Carrie Arnold, because she's going to see things about the lighting that none of the rest of us will.
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  And it will be worth your time and investment.
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  And they immediately say, yes, and right off the bat, before I even get a contractor in this space.
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  So what's so nice is the team has really gotten to know.
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  This is just what we do.
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  We always use Carrie as a lighting designer.
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  I mean, I'm a designer, but it's an umbrella.
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  And then all these great people get to come in and work.
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  And the benefit is so huge.
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  And the way even honestly that it photographs at the end for portfolio or for award submissions makes such a huge difference.
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  So I think a lot of it, too, is as designers, how do we just set up our lighting designer friends for success from the very beginning?
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  And it just becomes a natural part of the conversation.
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  This is how we get you to the goal that you have in the most effective way, and it's actually going to save you time and money.
• 17:15
  So it's been really effective, and I'm really, really thankful for the Opportunity to.
• 17:19
  Do that and depending on the client.
• 17:21
  Right, Carrie?
• 17:22
  I mean, somebody that's doing a budget thing, they could go in with a Lutron Casita system out there and it will be easy to run, it will work on their app, It'll be good.
• 17:31
  But then you've got all the other stuff like Savant and all the other higher powered smart home tech just in controls, let alone the lighting.
• 17:40
  Yeah.
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  When we work on a big project where they're using a Crestron or a Control four or something like that, all that gets pushed to the integrator.
• 17:50
  But we still need to communicate so we all know what we're trying to accomplish together.
• 17:55
  I tend to work with the systems like the Lutrana or the LeGrand Netatmo, the ADORN system.
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  Use that.
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  And those are more the systems in which the homeowner owns the technology in the end.
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  And really all you have to do is get in there, set it up, explain to them how it works, and they can call you if they're needed.
• 18:16
  But once you get them set up with a basic framework and some scenes and understand how it works, they're good to go.
• 18:22
  It's bulletproof.
• 18:24
  It just really is.
• 18:25
  Once you get it going, it's really homeowner friendly for that.
• 18:29
  Yeah.
• 18:29
  Yeah, for sure, for sure.
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  People.
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  People don't know it exists.
• 18:37
  It's surprising when you're in an industry and you deal with these products every day, whether it has to do with the tape lighting or recessed lighting or lighting controls.
• 18:49
  When somebody comes into our lighting showroom and they're embarking up on a remodel and you ask them, oh, what are you doing for your switches and dimmers?
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  They don't know.
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  They blink.
• 19:02
  What do you mean?
• 19:03
  Is this another detail that you didn't think of?
• 19:05
  This lighting?
• 19:06
  Are you.
• 19:06
  Are you using.
• 19:08
  I don't know.
• 19:08
  I'm shocked at how many times you have somebody come in and you start talking to them and you ask.
• 19:14
  Start asking them these questions and you find out, oh, they're doing $100,000 kitchen remodel, and they have 4,000 kitcheners disk lights in their ceiling.
• 19:27
  I want to be an office complex.
• 19:29
  We have to tell Eric about that job.
• 19:32
  Eric.
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  Okay.
• 19:34
  Okay.
• 19:35
  I was working for a couple.
• 19:37
  They bought their dream home that we were going to renovate top to bottom to make it perfect for all the things.
• 19:43
  And they have a commercial industrial business and a relationship with an electrician for that business.
• 19:53
  And he was a very nice person and we talked a lot and he knew that we were Working with Carrie.
• 19:57
  But every once in a while he liked to jump ahead.
• 20:00
  And one time he jumped ahead in the family room.
• 20:03
  Oh no.
• 20:04
  And he put in 28 six inch recess cans.
• 20:09
  That's a lot of drywall work to fix.
• 20:11
  I know.
• 20:12
  And they were 4,000.
• 20:16
  It was a vaulted ceiling with beams.
• 20:18
  So now you had directional light to the middle of the room crossing over each other.
• 20:21
  And the whole homeowner walked me in and said, wendy, we did this room by ourselves.
• 20:27
  What do you think?
• 20:28
  If you want to find out more about the around the house show, head to aroundthe house online dot com.
• 20:35
  We will be right back with more lighting design discussion with expert Carrie Arnold after these important messages.
• 20:41
  Stick around.
• 22:39
  Welcome back to the around the house show.
• 22:41
  If you want to contact the show or find out more, head to aroundthehouse online dot com.
• 22:47
  Now let's get back to talking lighting design with Carrie Arnold.
• 22:51
  It was a vaulted ceiling with beams.
• 22:53
  So now you had directional light to the middle of the room crossing over each other.
• 22:57
  And the homeowner walked me in and said, wendy, we did this room by ourselves.
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  What do you think?
• 23:04
  And I thought, oh, dear God in heaven, please don't let me say something I'll regret forever.
• 23:10
  Please help me know what to say.
• 23:12
  So I asked a series of questions like, oh, well, I can see that having good light and seeing clearly is very important to you in this space.
• 23:20
  I'm so proud of that question.
• 23:22
  There we go.
• 23:23
  Is that true?
• 23:24
  Yeah.
• 23:24
  And then I said, well.
• 23:26
  He said, well, I did have it done by a professional electrician.
• 23:29
  And I said, I don't doubt that.
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  And how do you know?
• 23:32
  How do you know that?
• 23:33
  Electrician through the business?
• 23:36
  Well, yes.
• 23:36
  I said, oh, so he lights the industrial spaces for all your workers.
• 23:42
  Well, yes, I get it.
• 23:44
  I said, you know, if that's what we were doing, I would support this 100%.
• 23:48
  But I don't think your wife is going to want her friends and family to see every little detail of every little thing for now until eternity.
• 23:58
  There's so much light in here and it's going to blind you and you're going to get depressed because it's going to be oppressive.
• 24:03
  But oh my gosh, Eric, I had to exercise so much control.
• 24:06
  And this is before I understood that I needed to take a beta blocker my whole face, just like.
• 24:12
  And now it's like, oh, I know your tell Wendy, you turn red when you're frustrated.
• 24:16
  I said, well, I still behave myself.
• 24:18
  You don't want to know what would happen if I blew Up.
• 24:21
  You did good.
• 24:22
  You did great.
• 24:23
  I will go to my grave remembering that day because it was so crazy.
• 24:28
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  He understood the error of his ways in the end, though.
• 24:32
  That's good.
• 24:33
  But yeah, for more lighting advice.
• 24:36
  There we go.
• 24:37
  There we go.
• 24:37
  That's the key right there.
• 24:39
  I have, I have another interesting little anecdote.
• 24:43
  We have a homeowner came in and they wanted to do under cabinet and toe kick lighting.
• 24:48
  And I said, oh, why is that?
• 24:51
  Right?
• 24:52
  And they, they said, yes.
• 24:53
  Their contractor accompanied them to our store and he said, yeah, I put in 5000k downlights and we've got it nice and bright and white.
• 25:02
  Oh, what color are the cabinets?
• 25:03
  They're white.
• 25:04
  Oh, okay.
• 25:07
  They're blue now.
• 25:08
  I said, well, let's put together, let's put, let's put together an estimate for you.
• 25:12
  But unfortunately the best I can do is 4000k.
• 25:14
  That's as close as I'm going to be able to help you with.
• 25:17
  Well, that, that'll be good enough.
• 25:18
  And so, so I learned who the cabinet guy was and he was going to be part of installing the, making sure that the things fit under the cabinet.
• 25:26
  So after they left, I, I called, called him up and we've done many other projects together with Wendy involved.
• 25:33
  And I said, I called up the cabinet guy and I said, hey, you know, so and so just came in and they are, he goes, oh, they're my neighbor.
• 25:41
  I said, okay, okay.
• 25:43
  I said that, well, she and her contractor came in and they want to put under cabinet lighting and toe kick lighting in, that's 5,000.
• 25:50
  And he said, oh, no.
• 25:52
  I said, you know, I showed them all the examples, I explained everything to them, but they just weren't having it.
• 25:58
  Do you think you could call her and just talk to her about it?
• 26:02
  And he said, sure, I think that's a good idea.
• 26:04
  Because I figured maybe he had a better rapport with this.
• 26:07
  Yeah.
• 26:07
  With these people.
• 26:08
  So he did.
• 26:10
  And the next day she came back in by herself this time and said, I'm ready to buy.
• 26:15
  And I said, did you know the cabinet guy call you?
• 26:18
  And she goes, yeah, yeah, we talked about it, we talked about it, but I really want to keep it the same.
• 26:22
  And I said, okay.
• 26:23
  So we went ahead and ordered it for her, but I made her sign something that said it was non returnable.
• 26:30
  There we go.
• 26:31
  And so fast forward a couple of weeks, she calls us practically in a panic because her kitchen looks so terrible.
• 26:41
  Of course it does.
• 26:43
  Sometimes we can't save people from themselves.
• 26:45
  No.
• 26:46
  Okay, Glady and you know, if you have pets or a messy housemate, it shows everything.
• 26:51
  Cooking isn't always your friend because it'll be pet hair, toast crumbs.
• 26:58
  People don't think about that sometimes.
• 27:01
  The message that I tell people when they're doing a kitchen, you know, that's a big money space.
• 27:06
  And typically I know if that if I'm talking to them, they want something a little bit better, but they're kind of afraid when they're going from a twenty dollar a unit something to like 75 to 150 unit.
• 27:23
  And I, I'll say, okay, well, you know, I know you spend a lot of money on your slabs on your custom cabinetry.
• 27:30
  If you spend 1500 more on your kitchen lighting, that is a drop in the bucket and your lighting is going to be 10 times better.
• 27:39
  I mean, absolutely.
• 27:40
  Just upgrading just a little bit makes a huge difference.
• 27:45
  Carrie, My trick for people that do that, and I've had multiple ones, including one of the contractors I worked with, I went over to his house and that dude, he liked 5,000 Kelvin for everything, his house, and that's
• 27:56
  just his thing.
• 27:56
  And I'm like, your house and doesn't look good.
• 28:00
  But he also knew for clients that was his style.
• 28:03
  And he really knew the clients wouldn't.
• 28:05
  But I had somebody that was the same thing.
• 28:08
  And I'm like, this is going to look horrible with the colors.
• 28:10
  We've done the kitchen.
• 28:12
  And so I snuck in the color changing on the app and didn't tell them that I was putting in so I could change the color temperature on the light.
• 28:19
  And so I just didn't tell them I did it.
• 28:22
  I just put it in there.
• 28:23
  I just put the added controller in there for that light system.
• 28:26
  Then when I got the phone call, I went, well, let me come out and take a look.
• 28:28
  Because I had a feeling that was going to happen, that we talked about it.
• 28:32
  And I went out and it was dialed in perfectly.
• 28:35
  That looks horrible.
• 28:37
  I went, all right, you put the phone on your app, on your phone, right?
• 28:40
  All right, let me take a look at that.
• 28:41
  And I get into the back of it and changed it to what would I put?
• 28:45
  2800.
• 28:45
  And they went, that's amazing.
• 28:48
  And I'm like, save.
• 28:49
  All right, there you go.
• 28:51
  And it was, it was, Was it sneaky?
• 28:53
  Yes.
• 28:54
  Did they pay a couple extra hundred bucks for it?
• 28:56
  Absolutely.
• 28:58
  Did I save them another grand or two changing it out and putting another system in?
• 29:02
  Yeah, it did.
• 29:05
  That's your job.
• 29:06
  Yeah, I just kind of went, I'm gonna this is gonna bite me later.
• 29:09
  I know it.
• 29:10
  I know they're gonna hate it.
• 29:11
  And I just made it so I could change it.
• 29:14
  So smart.
• 29:15
  I'm gonna write that one down and take it to my next job where.
• 29:19
  Sometimes those little things that the lighting supports.
• 29:22
  Little bit easier if you do it that way.
• 29:26
  So.
• 29:27
  Yeah.
• 29:27
  And then, Carrie, one thing I want to talk about here, because I know it's so important, someone that is 60 years old sees light so different than somebody that's 25 and the light they need in a workspace.
• 29:40
  Let's talk about that a little bit.
• 29:41
  Because we see so much multi generational housing.
• 29:45
  And for someone that's in there, maybe cooking in the kitchen or in the bathroom, their light needs for what they perceive is way different.
• 29:53
  Let's talk about that.
• 29:54
  Yes.
• 29:54
  Okay.
• 29:55
  So as you age, little layers develop on your lens in your eye, like layers of onion skin.
• 30:04
  And so you need more light and you need a little bit whiter light.
• 30:11
  So.
• 30:11
  Because that your vision yellows a little bit, you know, and you talk to anybody that's had cataract surgery and yes, clears that up too.
• 30:19
  So.
• 30:20
  So when you're talking about the aging eye, you do need more light.
• 30:24
  You need a little bit whiter light.
• 30:27
  You don't need 4000k.
• 30:29
  No one needs that.
• 30:30
  But you need whiter light.
• 30:32
  You need good contrast.
• 30:34
  Meaning if you have a flooring change or a step down or something like that, that's where the lighting can play a big role.
• 30:41
  So you don't trip.
• 30:43
  Because subconsciously when you see a, the contrast change, when there's a floor change, your body just knows what to do unconsciously.
• 30:52
  And then you have to pay a lot of attention to your fixture locations and you have to pay attention to glare.
• 30:59
  Yeah.
• 30:59
  So.
• 31:00
  So you're just like when you, you get older and you need cheaters because your, your depth isn't adjusting as it should be.
• 31:10
  You're.
• 31:12
  Your pupils don't dilate and contract as fast as they used to.
• 31:18
  So if you have a fixture with a lot of bright clear light bulbs at your bathroom vanity, or you have 100 watt equivalent clear light bulb at your front door at your garage, as you're looking at that light,
• 31:34
  your pupils are getting smaller and reacting to that glare and you can see less overall.
• 31:41
  You know, from a practical sense, you just need to make sure that people have good task lighting where they need it and good contrast and just a little bit more.
• 31:49
  By contrast, I don't mean that you have areas of your room that are dark, but that you have areas that are for sure a lot brighter in your kitchen, in your bathroom, next to your reading chair, next to
• 32:03
  your bed, et cetera.
• 32:05
  And by the way, I want to throw this out to the universe for all of the restaurant commercial designers out there.
• 32:11
  If you have built in seating where whether it's a bar or built in booths, can you please just put under cabinet lighting under that so I can read the menu instead of having to get my phone out to
• 32:22
  do it?
• 32:23
  Amazing.
• 32:24
  Yes.
• 32:25
  One of my favorite restaurants did that recently when they did a little refresh.
• 32:29
  I came in, I'm like, oh, my gosh.
• 32:31
  I can now see without having to get readers out or my phone out to use the light.
• 32:37
  So smart.
• 32:38
  I was like, more of that, please.
• 32:41
  A lot of.
• 32:41
  I see a lot of restaurants and homes now putting the lighting under the.
• 32:47
  Under the bar countertop, which I love that.
• 32:51
  I love that.
• 32:52
  It looks a little more gentle than the toe kick too.
• 32:54
  Yeah, yeah.
• 32:56
  And it just looks good if you've got like bar seating, raised bar seating, where the stools in there, it really highlights that you can actually see what the design of the stools are.
• 33:04
  It's just, it's a really good feel.
• 33:07
  Yeah.
• 33:07
  And a lot of times people say, oh, I don't, I don't need that.
• 33:09
  I don't need that.
• 33:10
  But then they see what it looks like and they go, I actually kind of do want that.
• 33:15
  Yeah, yeah.
• 33:16
  I've had more people, the friends that were like, hey, can you come over and do the staircase lighting after I did at my house?
• 33:21
  Because I'm like, I wish I had time to go be doing all my friends projects, but it's one of those things that once you've done some of that under cabinet or under staircase or under table lighting, that stuff
• 33:32
  really changes the look of it and gives you that depth that you're trying to find beautiful.
• 33:37
  Beautiful.
• 33:38
  And just all of those interesting accents around the home or business or whatever makes a big difference when you're not relying on all the ceiling lights.
• 33:48
  Gosh.
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:51
  Oh.
• 33:51
  Hallways are the great example of what you can do with that.
• 33:54
  You know, whether it's a museum type base with a, you know, with a recessed LED light in it down the sides to really cool.
• 34:04
  I've used.
• 34:04
  I love using like the little 1 inch can lights in those spaces that hit over the artwork or something.
• 34:10
  That some of that stuff can be so sexy and cool in a boring space.
• 34:15
  That's exactly right.
• 34:16
  But if you just put in the 6 inch cans down the hallway, it's Terrible.
• 34:21
  Gone.
• 34:22
  It's terrible.
• 34:24
  That was great in 1982 because usually it was just two fixtures, one at each end and you called it a day.
• 34:31
  And 1982, that was an upgrade.
• 34:33
  But 2026, there are so many other better options.
• 34:37
  And that's really for a designer out there and for people that is that thing that takes your project from a 7.5 to a 10 is the lighting that you don't even know.
• 34:49
  It's the stuff you don't notice and the great lighting you don't notice, but it looks magical.
• 34:53
  Yeah.
• 34:54
  Yeah.
• 34:55
  My brother recently did a bathroom remodel and is now doing a kitchen remodel with the kind of a design build company and they do all in a package.
• 35:05
  And I've really tried to reach out to this company and try to put something together because both they do great work and the benefit is that they get in and they get out, but their lighting is just bottom
• 35:20
  of the barrel.
• 35:20
  He says, I'll use everything about your service except for the lighting and it all living room over the table.
• 35:27
  And that's your chandelier lighting.
• 35:31
  You put your.
• 35:32
  You know what I mean?
• 35:33
  That's it.
• 35:34
  You can light.
• 35:35
  And so they want to make sure is this ceiling fan bright enough for my room?
• 35:40
  And you're like, well, shuddering.
• 35:43
  Let's talk about lightning layers.
• 35:45
  Let's see.
• 35:46
  Let's do that.
• 35:47
  Let's dive into that.
• 35:48
  Yeah, you're so right.
• 35:51
  Lighting layers, like a good lighting layers.
• 35:54
  That is Lighting 101 right there.
• 35:56
  That's right.
• 35:57
  But to clients who've never heard it before, it's.
• 36:00
  It helps them understand how important it is.
• 36:02
  So again, like back to this house we just moved into.
• 36:07
  The lighting in the kitchen makes me so sad because there's no under cabinet lighting.
• 36:13
  There's no in cabinet lighting.
• 36:15
  Like where there's glass cabinets.
• 36:17
  There's no above cabinet lighting where it doesn't meet the ceiling.
• 36:21
  So the only stuff there is is really intense 6 inch down lights.
• 36:27
  And I didn't realize how spoiled I was in my other house.
• 36:31
  This little house was so well lit because Carrie is my friend now.
• 36:36
  I walk into the kitchen in the morning and my husband's got every bright light on and I feel like the world is coming at me because blue eyes actually register light in a totally different way than people with
• 36:48
  brown eyes.
• 36:48
  So he thinks I'm ridiculous and I think he's way over the top, so.
• 36:52
  And never the twain shall meet.
• 36:54
  But I can't wait for the day when Carrie comes and helps me figure this out.
• 36:59
  And Eric, our favorite electrician, gets in here and hooks it all up because that day is going to be one of the happiest in this new house I've ever had.
• 37:07
  I can't wait.
• 37:09
  It's going to make a huge difference.
• 37:11
  But it's also kind of neat because I can share with clients firsthand the difference that it makes in your mood and your perception of the space and the look and feel of everything.
• 37:23
  Where before I was spoiled and I really didn't understand how spoiled I was.
• 37:28
  So living without is good for you, except it makes you want to work a lot harder to get the things back that you love the most.
• 37:36
  Okay, we're going to talk about some key things here.
• 37:40
  And watch these on your own time before our next meeting.
• 37:43
  So you get to understand what we're going to do.
• 37:45
  And then all of a sudden you show the before and after on that not three or four minute video.
• 37:49
  Make it easy to consume.
• 37:50
  And now Carrie has a much easier job going in there.
• 37:53
  Oh, I love that idea.
• 37:55
  Before and after.
• 37:55
  I love it.
• 37:57
  Let's do it.
• 37:58
  A marketing genius, our friend Eric.
• 38:00
  Light layering is.
• 38:02
  You really do need some visuals because you can explain to somebody that light that the terminology ambient lighting, task lighting, accent lighting doesn't really mean much to people unless you show them.
• 38:15
  And sometimes those things overlap a little bit.
• 38:19
  So you do need those visual aids to more than words.
• 38:24
  And people, of course, learn in different ways, but you can show them.
• 38:27
  You can show them a beautifully lit room and it looks beautiful, but if you show them the same room without all of those features, that's when it really makes a big difference.
• 38:37
  Yeah, my store up the street from me here that just actually closed because it got bought out.
• 38:41
  But long story short, they had a great lighting lab in there.
• 38:44
  So I could go up there and say, okay, this is what 4000 kelvin gives you.
• 38:48
  This is what 2800 gives you.
• 38:51
  What 6 inch can looks like.
• 38:53
  This is what a 2 inch can looks like.
• 38:55
  This is what toe kick lighting looks like.
• 38:57
  And you could tweak it around and people would go in the same room and go, now I understand.
• 39:02
  And you could kind of shoot layers.
• 39:04
  And they had it for, geez, 10 plus years in there.
• 39:08
  And it was really nice seven or eight years ago when I could really lean into lighting a little bit better because we had more options besides just halogen puck lights under a cabinet.
• 39:20
  Or the other option was, you know, use fluorescence.
• 39:25
  When I started my design career, that was, that was the beast we dealt with.
• 39:29
  Yeah, yeah, no halogen Puck lights.
• 39:32
  If they were too close to paperwork, it would set your house on fire.
• 39:36
  Well, I had twice in my design career where people were putting their butter dish up there and it melted the butter in the cabinet and the whole stick of butter was on the cabinet countertop and dripping down off
• 39:49
  the, the wall cabinet because they had it in there.
• 39:52
  And I'm like, told you they were hot.
• 39:55
  Well, in the mid-90s, I melted a hole in the top of my coffee maker with one of those things.
• 39:59
  Yep, yep.
• 40:01
  So, yeah, that's pretty hot.
• 40:03
  They were pretty awesome.
• 40:05
  Yeah.
• 40:05
  Gosh, it's been ages since I sold a Puck light.
• 40:08
  Yeah, I'm happy.
• 40:10
  People don't really use those anymore.
• 40:12
  No, they're not a thing.
• 40:13
  But the tape light, you know, and we have a lot of options that are kind of a pre done modular LED system that are, that are nice.
• 40:21
  But we do a lot of, a lot of tape lighting.
• 40:24
  And the channel and lens, people don't know.
• 40:28
  I'm a huge fan of the channel and lens.
• 40:32
  So cool.
• 40:32
  You can machine that in, hide it and you'll never see it until it's on and then it just glows like magic.
• 40:40
  That's right.
• 40:41
  That's right.
• 40:42
  And people think that LED tape lighting is LED tape lighting.
• 40:47
  It is not new.
• 40:50
  When you see my, my little bag that I bring out when I go to, when I go to a job.
• 40:54
  Site, I bought the 59Amazon kit.
• 40:59
  It'll be great.
• 41:00
  It's like if you're, if you're.
• 41:03
  You bought tape lighting for 25 on Amazon.
• 41:06
  I, I have my own terminology for that because I call the, the products that I use professional grade.
• 41:14
  And it is.
• 41:15
  Yep.
• 41:15
  And it's not cheap, but it's gonna last forever and ever.
• 41:18
  I call the cheap stuff novelty grade.
• 41:21
  Smart novelty.
• 41:22
  Great.
• 41:24
  So this is the stuff that you give to your teenager to put around the their room.
• 41:30
  Throwing around the room.
• 41:31
  Yep.
• 41:31
  Or just like peel off that peel and stick on the back of your tv.
• 41:36
  Yeah.
• 41:37
  I call that novelty grade.
• 41:40
  Yeah.
• 41:40
  A couple of manufacturers here, there are some high end appliance companies that we all know that are the leaders in the industry out there.
• 41:49
  And the LED lights that they use in their appliances when I go to film is absolute garbage with the flicker.
• 41:59
  I have to turn the lights off on their glass door, refrigerators and wine because I don't want it to look like it's midnight in a dance club.
• 42:08
  It is.
• 42:09
  When you put any kind of camera on it.
• 42:11
  And I'm like, I wonder if I.
• 42:14
  Can sort that out, find a kit like make.
• 42:16
  There's gotta be something.
• 42:17
  I see it, I'll walk into the house and go, oh no, we have those.
• 42:21
  Because I know it's going to be a challenge in there because I want to show it lit.
• 42:24
  So we end up turning the lights on off of in them and putting studio lights in their fridge or wine behind the door someplace to hide them just so we can make it look right.
• 42:34
  Because otherwise it's not something you can correct in post because it's so random of a flicker.
• 42:39
  It's just, it's just garbage lighting.
• 42:43
  Yeah.
• 42:43
  You can usually tell too when you have that really flickery, low level stuff.
• 42:48
  It used to be in residential lighting.
• 42:50
  It used to be a lot more common when, when LED lighting really first started coming on the scene.
• 42:55
  But you would, you would.
• 42:57
  In fact, the first LED under cabinet lighting I had, you can see the flicker when you wave your hand under it or you know, wave a pencil or something.
• 43:05
  It looks like a strobe light.
• 43:07
  And I had this lighting next to my kitchen sink.
• 43:10
  And you would use.
• 43:10
  The water was moving and it looked like the water was under strobe lighting.
• 43:15
  Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 43:16
  That effect?
• 43:17
  Yeah.
• 43:17
  It almost makes it look like it's stopping for a second.
• 43:19
  Yeah, it's just messing with it.
• 43:20
  Yeah.
• 43:21
  Terrible, Terrible.
• 43:22
  So that's the lighting they're using in the appliances.
• 43:25
  Carrie, we are running out of time.
• 43:27
  So we could make this a three hour like Joe Rogan style thing and be diving into lighting.
• 43:32
  But I want to make sure and get in there.
• 43:33
  How do people find you?
• 43:36
  You know, people in your area or people outside there that are looking to jump in the car and cruise up and see you.
• 43:41
  How do people find you?
• 43:43
  I have a lighting showroom.
• 43:45
  I'm third generation owner.
• 43:47
  My grandparents started the business in the 40s so we've been around a long time.
• 43:51
  And I'm in Modesto.
• 43:53
  It's called Phillips Lighting and home P H I L L I P S is how it's spelled.
• 43:59
  And you can find our website@philipslighting.com you can find me on Instagram @philipslighting Modesta and I'm pretty easy to find.
• 44:09
  Call me up, email me.
• 44:10
  Very cool.
• 44:11
  Carrie, thanks for taking the time today.
• 44:13
  It is so great.
• 44:13
  I can't wait to do this again.
• 44:14
  I know Wendy is great at this.
• 44:16
  You're great at this.
• 44:17
  And I think it's just a great topic for people out there because nobody knows about this stuff when they start.
• 44:22
  I'd Love it.
• 44:24
  Let's do it.
• 44:25
  Wendy, thanks for coming on again as well.
• 44:27
  Thanks for jumping into the co host seat today.
• 44:29
  I appreciate it.
• 44:30
  Wendy, how do people find you as well in your design company?
• 44:32
  It's Wendy Glasester in interiors.
• 44:35
  G L A I S T E R and you can find me on the web and on Instagram under that name.
• 44:41
  Thank you so much, Eric.
• 44:43
  And thank you so much, Carrie, for making time because I knew that Eric would really love to meet you and I'm really excited for all the things that people are going to learn by listening to this episode with
• 44:52
  the two of you talking about all of your fun experiences.
• 44:55
  Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 44:57
  This was super fun.
• 44:59
  Super fun.
• 45:00
  I'd love to do it.
• 45:00
  I'm Eric Chi.
• 45:01
  Thanks for tuning in to around the.
• 45:03
  House Counting them sheep.
• 45:05
  Kitchen Beauty R Don't make the good story knock one back, no buzz, no worry.
• 45:13
  No one ever talks about the shots.
• 45:15
  They didn't take drinks, they never drank.
• 45:18
  Hell they never raised.
• 45:19
  Yee haw.
• 45:20
  Y', all, it's only 9:30.
• 45:22
  No one ever talks about the nights.
• 45:25
  They went to bed early.