Latest / The Healthy Diabetic / #374: Do You Even Need to Manage Blood Sugar on Ozempic? Graham's Honest Opinion

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#374: Do You Even Need to Manage Blood Sugar on Ozempic? Graham's Honest Opinion · The Healthy Diabetic

0:15
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: This is episode number three hundred and seventy-four of the Healthy Diabetic Podcast.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Coach Ken Kenniss.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Joining me as always is my good friend and partner in crime, T1D Graham Hubbard.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: We are two type ones with almost 50 years of diabetes experience.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: And we hope to encourage and empower you to think differently about how you are managing this condition.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Before we get started, please remember that nothing that you hear on this podcast, you can consider medical advice or otherwise.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Please always consult your medical team before making any changes to your diabetes management.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Graham, my man, how you doing?
0:59
SPEAKER_01: It's been a hot second.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: You've been out for a week or so.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: And we did some solo episodes.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: I did some solo episodes last week, which have gone very, very well.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm excited to jump back on and chat with you and get this rockin' and rolling, man.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm probably gonna say something and it's probably gonna stay on this the whole time because it's absolutely wild.
1:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm on now, I am I've been on Ozempic, prescribed for type one at the lowest level for seven weeks.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: There is no taking care of your blood sugar anymore, bro.
1:31
SPEAKER_03: Like, there is no I'll say, let me say this again.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: There is no taking care of your blood sugar anymore.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: And get ready, my basil, I'm taking three units twice a day, and I'm still fighting that.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean you're fighting it?
1:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm probably gonna go down.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: I probably gotta maybe do like two in the morning, three at night.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: I'll take bro.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: So last night I was 209 and I just took basil, I'll took three units of basil.
1:59
SPEAKER_03: I eventually went low from like three units of basil.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: Because I was out well, and it is side story.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: If you've ever been to Florida and say, how the fuck do people live there?
2:10
SPEAKER_03: That's what it is right now.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: It's that like a hundred-degree like heat walls, heat walls, man.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: So, but dude, I I'm speechless.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, can at this rate, one vial is gonna last me four months, five months.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: So even if you had to pay it out of pocket, that's not that bad, bro.
2:30
SPEAKER_03: You know?
2:30
SPEAKER_03: And now it's funny, I keep talking to my wife.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh I want to say it here, here's the one thing I no, I was just gonna say, like, this is the one thing I would say about this, right?
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I've I first I think it's great that you feel like you don't have to really manage your blood sugar because you're getting support from this GOP1.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: But I also want everyone to that's listening to this to hear this specific and very important thing.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: I would say that it's mostly because Graham doesn't even take that much insulin in the first place, and he's on this very short eating window, right?
3:12
SPEAKER_01: So he's dosing the meals or food that he's dosing for is in this like really small freaking window because he's intermittent fasting, because that's what he's chosen to do, right?
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So his window of eating is from what six to ten gram, right?
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
3:29
SPEAKER_03: That's what we kind of yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: We talked and we talked about that at length.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, about six to ten.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: It's about six to ten.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So that's a very small eating window.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: So you're only having to dose in that window in the first place.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Outside of like, you know, you go high for whatever reason because you're doing something and cortisol, stress, whatever makes you go up.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have to take a small little dose.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: But gram takes such little insulin in the first place.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: So to say, like, oh, we're we don't have to manage blood sugars at all, I would say that that's probably not the case if you're on a GLP one, because I have talked to other people that are on GLP1s that still have to take a good amount of insulin.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not completely taking over for all of their dosing strategies that or they're they're not having they're still having to think about diabetes sometimes, where Graham is in a very unique position because he doesn't take a lot of insulin anyway.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: So that that's the the great thing about what Graham's going through right now is like he's he's able to take this medication and allow himself to not have to really dose that much.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: So it's crazy, and I knew you were gonna say this, and I actually had to write them down.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: And I keep telling my wife this it ain't the chicken or the egg.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: So there are three major facts that happened long before the Ozempic.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: And you know all of them.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: I started splitting my basil, which I had a lot of success with.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: I gave up CGMs and I I I I don't see myself looking back.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: And then for most importantly, I I I have a new endocrinologist with new ideas, new ways of thinking, a whole a new level of understanding of the disease and everything.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: So it is like a funny chicken or the egg right now.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: So, but you know, planets are aligning, bro.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, and the thought was the thought was minimize, okay.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: A either minimize the amount of insulin you're taking or become, you know, have hypersense like I do, I have a hypersensitivity.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: Dude, there is no correcting a 200 right now.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: That's another reason why I'm thinking of it.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but how long does it take you to come back down?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: How long did that take you does it take you to come back down?
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're talking six hours, that's a completely different story.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: Wait, to come back down from what?
5:55
SPEAKER_01: If you if you are let's just say you have a 200, or even go back to the scenario that you were talking about earlier where you were high and it came and it made you go low because you didn't because of whatever, because your basil and the medications.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: How long does it take?
6:11
SPEAKER_03: Great question.
6:12
SPEAKER_03: If you were if you were 200 and you just were refusing to take hemologue because you knew you were gonna go low, by the tape by the time I'm taking the next dose of basil, that's bringing me back down to where I want to be.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so I'm just saying, like, if you're 200, okay, and you're taking your night night basil, right, does that take all day to come back down, all night to come back down, or is that coming back down in three hours?
6:39
SPEAKER_01: It that is two totally different things.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: Well, normally, if I was 200, I would correct with my bolus.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: And then I would take my basil.
6:51
SPEAKER_03: As of right now, bro, it's like it's like it's a shit show.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: When I pair, I'll take two units of each, and my body is just, I'll be low, I'll be low all night, man.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, but you're you're so here's yeah, okay.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: So in in the grand scheme of things, you you shouldn't be taking humolog in that thought process, right?
7:11
SPEAKER_01: What I'm trying to ask you is take the humolog out of the equation because you're not taking it.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: In in this scenario, you're not taking it.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: So, but I'm trying to understand what is the time frame that it's coming down.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Because if it's three hours, not six hours, three hours.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but it's not because of the basil, it's because of something else.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Because the basil does not drop you like that.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: It's basil's not going to drop you in three hours.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: It's just not.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: That's not what it's designed to do.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: So the question becomes do you still have insulin on board from correcting from the food that you ate previously?
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Whether that was an hour ago, three hours ago, four hours ago, whatever that is.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you still have that insulin in the background bringing you down?
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually be why you are actually going low.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:05
SPEAKER_01: You're not taking you're not correcting for that 200.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: That's that's what I'm trying to understand.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: I think the answer is a compliment to you, and you've you've gone on record saying this plenty that you know at some point you do need to have some carbohydrates.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh as an example, we went out for Thai food last night.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: Thai food.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: And all I had was chicken satay, which is chicken on a stick, calamari, and then they had crispy fried duck.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: I was just annihilating all these proteins, but having Thai a Thai meal, and it was amazing, you know.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: But uh, and then I think I stacked that meal after meal, and then I don't end up having a carbohydrate, and you know, there's probably not enough sustenance in the meal, right?
8:52
SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean you're eating protein.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: You're eating tons of protein, like that you want you don't want to have a lot of carbohydrates at night in the first place because then you're dealing with spikes, right?
9:04
SPEAKER_01: So maybe the insulin that you have on board, if you're taking any insulin to cover for the pet from the Thai food, if you are, maybe that's still in your system and that's why you're you're going low.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: I'd have to like kind of look at again, you don't have a CGM graph, so I can't look at your CGM graph.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: So that there's so many different things of why you're spiking and then you're at 200 then coming back down.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many things that here's a great example.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: If I was like last night, say I went into dinner at 180, but I just ate protein, but you know, a couple other things had like sweet and sour sauce, something had like a curry sauce and Thai food, kind of like they'll use like coconut milk, because then that has so those like little things will then bring you up.
9:53
SPEAKER_03: So you didn't take any insulin at that dinner.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: Like you're right, you'll be at 250.
9:59
SPEAKER_03: Because the price you got a decision to make.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: You got a decision to make because you you owe you now owe the evening basil, and are you willing to take some type of correction and risk it, you know?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And as of right now, but but again, but the basil's not gonna drop you.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: The basil's not designed for that.
10:15
SPEAKER_03: It shouldn't, bro.
10:16
SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm telling you.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: It's it works like crazy, man.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: It works like crazy because you have three different mechanisms going on at the same time.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: You've got your basil, you've got your Ozempic, and you have any other insulin on board from your hemologue.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's exactly the basal, that's not the basil that's bringing you down.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: It's a combination of maybe the three of them.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: And you're on the route.
10:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:42
SPEAKER_03: Right?
10:42
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
10:43
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think of it that way.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think of it that way, yeah.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: So you have to think of those three mechanisms that are happening on top of you not having a lot of carbohydrate or sugar on board.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Right?
10:55
SPEAKER_01: So you're your your ozempic, the basal, and whatever insulin that you have on board from the meal is counteracting the protein, which thinking about it now, no wonder that you're going low.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Because you you you have three mechanisms.
11:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm only going low.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm only going low with like a correction or but I thought you said you went low without taking anything and you're just you just took your basil.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
11:21
SPEAKER_03: I did.
11:21
SPEAKER_03: I did, but that I think that was like that was like an achievable, easier low, you know, a fig bar.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: If if I correct, if I correct and I go about my day, it just happened.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was low six times, unwarranted, six different lows, just kept going and going and going.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it might be Ozempic is too much, or it might be that the basil's too much, or you're taking too much insulin, you need to change your insulin to carb ratio.
11:46
unknown: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean and make your insulin to carb ratio higher.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: So if you're taking a unit, then you should only like two units or whatever, as an example, then you maybe you take one in that scenario.
11:58
SPEAKER_03: Is there is there not a is is there not a side you have at all that's sitting here like this is awesome to hear that like this shit's working?
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I think it's amazing that it's shit's working.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: I said that at the very beginning.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: I said that I said that at the very beginning, that that it's amazing that it's working like that.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: The difference is is like the lows, because we want to avoid the lows.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Whether that's a it's an actual low, that you're able it's it's not debilitating, or if it's a severe low, right?
12:26
SPEAKER_01: We want to avoid those scenarios.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: And what I was trying to understand from this conversation was it's not the basal, so is it the Ozempic, or is do you actually have you know insulin on board from the meal still of why you're going low at night?
12:42
SPEAKER_01: This is right, and and this is the way this is the reason I say this.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: This I'm gonna give you an example.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And again, we're two different people, our systems work completely different, but this is why I'm saying this.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: I was camping over the weekend.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: For the first period, we went to one of the Jelly Stone parks in here in Ohio up north or whatever.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Really cool, cool site, cool.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, really cool place, it's super open.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So it was really it was really cool.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: It sucked, it rained most of the time, but whatever.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: That's what happened when you camp.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: Ohio.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: That's Ohio.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: The reason I bring this up, the reason I bring this up, okay, and again, everybody who's listening, me and Graham are two different people.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Our systems respond to insulin and other mechanisms in two different ways, but this is why I don't think it's the basil.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: I didn't take basil for 48 hours.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I didn't give myself a basil injection when I was there for 48 hours.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Just to see what would happen.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: And I still I still woke up under between 100 and 120 every single day.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't wake up low, I didn't wake up high, I wasn't high, I didn't have I think I had a low one time during that process, but it I was managing my my diabetes solely on Lemjev, on fast-acting insulin, just correcting for the meals.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Like I I wasn't eating, I wasn't eating in excess of what I usually do.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: My carbohydrate ratio wasn't totally different than I usually consume every single day.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're talking about the total carbohydrates that you're consuming every single day.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's it I don't think in your scenario, it's the basal that's bringing you low.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a comp it's either a combination of the three or it's a combination of Ozempic working in the background with your bolus cumolog insulin.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: What I what I was gonna say earlier, the wild thing though with diabetes is you'll never know because A, we're on a heat wave, and like I said, it is a wall of heat, and B, you know my you know my work and you know some stories of things that's been going, you know.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: So a bunch of stress.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm not stressed, but I will say this, I'm not stressed at all.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not stressed.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: I am not okay.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So you're not stressed.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So stress is not the not one of the variables.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: You know.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: I meet people that meet me and then they're like, what the fuck is wrong with you, bro?
15:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I'm always I'm always this way, right?
15:13
SPEAKER_03: So, like, and I'm always thinking and planning and worrying and executing and shit.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:20
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I want to ask you something else.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be solely random and out of left field, but another story.
15:26
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever picked up a hobby knowing that it would benefit your diabetes in some way or your health in some way?
15:34
SPEAKER_03: Like truly said, you know what, I'm gonna start doing X, and I'll tell you my thing if you don't have an answer.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Have I ever picked up a hobby that benefited diabetes?
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's my here's my counter question here.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Are we talking, are we asking this question in the per in the context of I picked up a hobby because it was going to with my butt diabetes, or I just picked up a hobby and it ended up helping my diabetes?
16:02
SPEAKER_03: More than it was going like it would be like an experiment to see if it would be like like you knew it's like you go ahead.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm I am picking up this hobby because I want support, more support in my diabetes management.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then I would say no.
16:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay, let me hit you with mine.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: Gardening.
16:21
SPEAKER_03: Gardening.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: A hobby of gardening that's going that is that you're do that you are doing gardening because you want it to help, because you know it can help you.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Dude, absolutely.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Eating, dude.
16:33
SPEAKER_03: I am on a mission.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: On a I am on this hellbeth mission to eat my own salsa.
16:38
SPEAKER_03: Yo, dude, you love salsa, like yeah, and it's so easy when it comes down to it.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: So I am I have I did potted plants outside.
16:47
SPEAKER_03: So I'm yeah, I'm having a little fun.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm starting with potted plants.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: I think the next thing will be hydroponic because I do a lot of just like you know, basils and and cilantros and like lettuce and carrots, and why the heck not, dude?
17:03
SPEAKER_03: And you know, not only is it hydroponic, it's cool because it'd be inside, so you're breathing better air, but it's you know, it's you just walk out and get your own cilantro or whatever.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: There's here's my question, because I have I'd have no idea.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, if you're if you're growing things like cilantro, does cilantro thrive in the heat?
17:24
SPEAKER_03: Um I mean it's a good question, dude.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: Like okay, and excuse me if I'm wrong, people might yell at me.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: I the biggest difference is the soil.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:34
SPEAKER_03: We we have a it is all sand for us.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: Like we have to essentially like the cool thing about the potted plants, and like I got I got jalapeno, Tabasco, those are peppers, and then tomatoes.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: It's like fucking thriving, it's amazing, it's doing well.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: But it could be the soil and the and the heat though.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: No, no, it's because the heat is because it's here with avocados.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: Hold on, hear me out.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: The entire potted plant is potting soil.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: Like, I got that good, good shit, and like I water it and I put on like all the things.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: So taking really, really good care of the soil.
18:08
SPEAKER_03: That's the funny thing about if you don't know about like a hydroponic, it's instead of it sitting in the roots, the roots are dangling with water dripping over it.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: And it just I think it matches my personality better.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: I think it keeps the food safer.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: I am worried that like I don't have those types of animals that could eat it, but uh, it's funny.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: I'll be honest, like it's fun as shit, man.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's cool.
18:30
SPEAKER_03: If you do it in a way that matches your personality and it's not overwhelming, uh like I said, someone challenged me.
18:37
SPEAKER_03: He's like, just make your own salsa.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that's awesome, man.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Like it's my only question was like things like avocado, like avo avocados are native to the south because of the heat.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
18:50
SPEAKER_01: We don't grow avocados in the northern part of the US because they can't thrive.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I was wondering about cilantro.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: So fantastic question.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: Avocados grow on a tree.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: That is a massive, massive bucket list for me and my wife.
19:05
SPEAKER_03: It's either we love lime, like we always have lime, and you can have stitch trees like crazy.
19:11
SPEAKER_03: And so I would like to do that.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: I would like to do that.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: That'd be cool to have to, I'm sure you can just go get some seeds at the local store down there.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, dude, you can do anything and grow avocados, just like you do anything else.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: In a in a oh, I'm getting a horrible leg cramp.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: In a in a in that holistic, simplistic way that everybody kind of tells you in your life it's exactly right.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: Like, maybe I just had to turn another chicken or the egg.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: Maybe I just had to turn 40.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: Like everything everything is like, you know, like life, it things do change when you turn 40.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: Just look at things a little bit differently, you know.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: I I don't I don't I don't think I worry about those things when it comes to diabetes and whatnot, but as I did say, I sure consume a lot of protein.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: And I don't really have a I don't know, I don't know, I don't really have a roundabout, I don't know.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: I don't have a roundabout way.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Like I can grow all my all my own vegetables and shit till the cows come home, but where am I gonna get you know?
20:14
SPEAKER_03: Protein's a hard one, man.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: Huh?
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is hard because you only have two options.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Really, you only have two options with protein.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Either you are going to do animal-based protein, whether that's it's synthetic and you're getting like whey or whatever, like whey isolate, what whatever it is, like in making a smoothie or using that in water, whatever it is.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Either you're doing that or getting like animal actual base protein that has been, you know, the animal's been killed, and you've got protein from the grocery store or whatever.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Or so that's the that's one that's one way.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Or you do all vegetable or all um plant-based proteins.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Right?
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And that and you're doing plant-based proteins, hypothetically, you can grow all your own protein, but you have to eat a crap load of protein, a crap load of plant-based proteins.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Every protein adequate amount of protein.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever considered being a vegetarian?
21:09
SPEAKER_01: No, I've never considered being a vegetarian.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's here's here's my thing that I will say about this.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: The way that meat, the way things are being processed, the way things are being from, you know, whether it's being you slaughter the animal, yeah, humane, human, you harvest everything, it goes through the the refinery process, it gets to the grocery store, then you cook it, and it gets to your gets to your mouth, right?
21:36
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of hands, a lot of a lot of human touch points, as we call it.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously it's going through the refinery and going through the factory, it's not a lot of actual human hands, but that's a lot of that's a lot that that that that meat has to go through to get from the animal to your mouth.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: When you're eating plant based proteins, the amount of Of human hands, the amount of process process, I guess I'm not even using that word properly, the amount of processing it has to go through is limited when you're doing plant-based.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: So you can make the argument that plant-based is going to be more organic, more natural, better for your system, than maybe doing animal-based proteins.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Here's my caveat to that.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: From what I understand about the specific amino acids, which is what we're talking about when we're talking about protein, the amino acids from plant-based compared to animal-based is not the same.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: You get more amino acids per gram from animal-based, which means you have to eat way more protein or way more plant-based protein to get the same amount of protein.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's the caveat to this.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you're looking at quality versus quantity, that's that's a hard pill to swallow.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Me personally, I just love animal-based proteins.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: I love chicken.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: I love beef.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: I love pork.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: I love steak.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: I love I love it all.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, I love it all.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: So I will, I will go and get animal-based proteins all day long before I would go do plant-based.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Now, that doesn't mean that I don't do plant-based proteins.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: 100% I still do legoons and beans and all the plant-based proteins.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: I still do all that stuff.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: But if someone's going to say to me, it's like, am I going to be a vegetarian or a vegan?
23:34
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not going to be just that.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: I might be primarily that.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: I might want to go primarily vegan or whatever.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Like if I had an if I had a sensitivity for some reason to beef and chicken, I'm like, oh God, I got to switch.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: I would totally do it.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: But now in my life, I don't feel like I get this crazy sensitivity to chicken or beef, which is my primary source of animal-based proteins, is those two, beef and protein, or beef and chicken.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question, no, I've never decided to do that.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And at my current stage in life, I would never, I wouldn't do that right now.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Not saying it's a bad thing.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: It's just like it's hard to get the protein that you the protein that you need.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: Just like you, I'm one of those that tell how much I love animal meats, but like I'll tell you what messed my brain up.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: Grow grow something successfully in your garden, man.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: Like it's changing me.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: It's it's like 100%, man.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: It just makes sense.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: Let me quickly ask you a question.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: What do you think about what do you think about people who like raise will like, you know, raise a calf and then have a have like you know have a cow?
24:44
SPEAKER_03: Like you you get a freezer for the you get a f an extra freezer for the for the garage.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, it's just like people doing that for deers.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's people that will hunt deer and harvest all the deer meat.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: Is that is that is that meat as subject to all the things that it would be if I went to Kroger?
25:04
SPEAKER_01: No, God no, because you're doing it yourself.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: You're not putting like the meat.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say I'm doing it myself, bro.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: What are you saying?
25:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like there's a farmer, there's farmers that will be like, yeah, I would get my it, I would, if 100% I would get all of my meat from a far from a local farmer before I would go to the grocery store.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: If I had the ability or the option to do that, which I'm sure I do in Columbus, but you gotta search that shit out, right?
25:33
SPEAKER_01: I gotta go up to Amish Country, drive an hour, 45 minutes, whatever it might be, to get to Amish Country or get to that farmer and like get all the meat, right?
25:43
SPEAKER_01: Which is why there's companies that do that, where they'll do like kill to the freeze the meat, and then you just order what you want.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Right?
25:52
SPEAKER_01: There's there's companies that 100% do that.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Like I I but it's also really expensive to do that too.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Way more expensive than it is to get it at the grocery store because it's it's a whole food type idea where you get your food at the grocery store, whether it's organic, whether it's you know, grass-fed, whether it's free range, whatever it is, like it's still more expensive to do do it through the grocery store.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's put it on let's put it bluntly.
26:24
SPEAKER_03: My only obs real obstacle is that they won't let me have chicken coops.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: Because if I can have chicken coops, I'd have eggs and like that'd be that would be sweet.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: But you know, if I in a neighborhood, if I didn't live in a neighborhood, yeah.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: If I didn't live in a neighborhood, that'd be the first thing that I would have.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: I would do chicken coop first, I would do chicken to get my eggs first, and then the second thing I'd probably do is we probably would do goats because that's gonna eat up a lot of the grass and eat up a lot of the insects and you know, and chickens are really good for ticks too, I think.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: You know what I said?
27:03
SPEAKER_03: Fish far fish farm.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: You ever seen fish fish farming?
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where they're just constantly throwing stuff in there and that stuff, the the ecosystem of that pond or that wherever whatever you have just keeps growing and growing different types of fish.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: That'd be cool.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: What about you?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: What's new?
27:24
SPEAKER_01: What's new with me?
27:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean Yeah, what's up with like what's up with your diabetes and shit like that?
27:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean diabetes.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm still diabetic.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Diabetes is going really well outside of hiccups occasionally here and there.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Diabetes is going well.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I like I always say, like I'll have two, three, maybe four months, as you can hear my low alarms going on.
27:45
SPEAKER_03: Oh wait, let's take a second.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Let's take a second.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: That is exactly the shit that drove me insane.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so here's the thing.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: Do not interrupt do not interrupt my life because I because some bullshit that you think about me.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so notification.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Here's the perspective, right?
28:06
SPEAKER_01: This is great that we're talking about.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: We we have a completely different perspective on this, right?
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Because you let the stuff hold on.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Hold on, let me talk about this.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Let me talk about this, right?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: You're letting that shit like get to you, right?
28:21
SPEAKER_01: That that alarm, a low alarm just went off on my phone.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: What did I do?
28:25
SPEAKER_01: I literally set it to the side.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, but you you're making a decision, you made a decision.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: The low alarms and the alarms is part of your decision on why to stop doing a CGM, which is fine.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: You have the ability to do that.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: But but I'm just saying, but dude, come on, hold on, man.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a very serious thing because you you're making a very important point to why people get pissed off about having diabetes, and I'm trying to flip the script on all that bullshit and say, like, why are you allowing that shit to to run your thought process?
28:59
SPEAKER_01: I like it just went it, dude.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: It just went off.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: I set my phone to the side.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm not giving it a second thought because of two reasons.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: The first reason is that number is not correct.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: It says 59 coming down.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: There's no way I'm 59 right now.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: I just put on a new CGM two days ago.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm still going through the first 24 to 72 hours of like it not being 100% accurate.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: So every time that I wanted to look at look at my blood sugar, I would look at it and either it was really high or it was, you know, a number that I was like, okay, maybe that's correct.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: So what did I do?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Every single time I looked at it and didn't think that was correct, what'd I do?
29:42
SPEAKER_01: I went and tested my blood sugar and it was off by 60, 50 plus milligrams per deciliter.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: So I made a decision based off of the finger prick, and then I went about my day.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: I it didn't, I didn't give it another thought.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I wasn't pissed off about it.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: I literally went about my day.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I literally just did right now.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: It says 59 going down, and I'm just like, no, it's not.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm going about my day.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: I'll deal with it later.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: That's completely different than allowing it to take on the next two, three, four minutes and being pissed off about it.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Just walk away from it.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Deal with it if you need to deal with it, and then just walk away from it.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Go.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Can I give you a real answer?
30:22
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: What a real answer to what?
30:24
SPEAKER_01: I didn't ask a question.
30:26
SPEAKER_03: To your question, whether you whether you like it or not, whether anybody thinks this sounds sane or not.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: My real answer that I hate, despise, will never understand the CGM environment is when it is you cannot, you cannot change certain things.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: What can you not change?
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't understand why you can't change.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: There is there is a final boss of whether it's Libra, whether it's Dexcom, and listen, hear me out.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: I'm listening.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: The first time I saw this, the first time I saw that, I said to myself, we'll see how this goes.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Like I do not like that.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: And I said, We'll see how this product goes.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: And that always was an issue for me.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: And then when the product sucked, and then I was like, good, like it's it's a double whammy for me.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: So and that that did matter.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm not gonna lie, bro.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: I I don't need I am trying to be the complete opposite of that.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: I am trying to, I'm 40.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: I remember a time without phones, without internet, without being controlled by that shit.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: So I'm not going to put it.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: You're allowing you're allowing that to control you, which is fine.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: You are allowing it to control you.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: And you made a decision.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Graham, you made a decision, and I've never said that it was the wrong decision for you.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: I I said I told you before when we had an hour-hour conversation about this.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: I'd never said that.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I never said anything about it.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: No, I said what I feel.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say your feelings was wrong.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I said what I feel.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: I I you're taking it that I'm getting on you for not being on a CGM and I'm not doing that.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Here you can hear it again.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna walk away from it.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm literally walking away from it.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
32:27
SPEAKER_03: I guess I could do the research.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: I am shocked that there is not more outcry about that.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: There is tons of you don't have to do the research.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: I will tell you right now.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: There's tons of outcry about it.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: There's tons of outcry about the alarms.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: There's tons of outcry about it.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: But here's the difference.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: You can control the alarms because you can change the numbers.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: That's one thing.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: That's and two, you can control the alarms because you can reduce the amount of times that the alarms are going off by having a good quality management style.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: I would disagree in that you missed the most important thing, and it's something we've always talked about.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: It's it is it is changing the way people think of diabetes.
33:08
SPEAKER_03: Like I would I would have dreamed of a CGM as a parent.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: Like I'd fuck it, fuck anything that it came with.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: I'd have been like, thank God I can see I have active like it.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: So that is why we I mean, I can't believe I'm gonna admit this, but like it's why I sit here and poke the bear and tease and and like at the end of the day, like I do get it.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't like the business models in either the company, but I because I'm a it's a business model.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you mean.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: I I I still to this day don't know what you mean by that.
33:38
SPEAKER_03: It's shit.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm a what's the word?
33:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm like a I don't know.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: I have high standards and they're probably ridiculous to some people, but it's it's but it's okay that you have those standards.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: We all have those standards.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just how much you're gonna let those standards dictate how you feel about something.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And you have a high, high standard about it.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I have a standard about it too, which it needs to be accurate, but I also understand because of where we are with the technology, it's not always gonna be accurate.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: And there's so many factors are gonna make it not accurate.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: You putting it in a specific spot and it goes in the wrong way, or the needle bends, or it goes into a tissue, and you're putting it into a specific place, whether it's abdomen, tricep, whatever it is, of some place that has a lot of scar tissue and that it can't get through the tissue.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: Like that's a that's a factor.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: There's just like we have factors and variables with managing diabetes and taking insulin, there's factors and variables that are gonna make your CGM not be 100% accurate.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that we can't be pissed off about it.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: We can 100% be pissed off about it.
34:45
SPEAKER_03: Just this is cool because you said, and you said something that a lot of very like mentally, mentally well people say it happened and I just moved on.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: I can't, I can't let shit go, bro.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: Like my brain is not.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: It's it, I, I, I, then I'm like, oh shit, is my CGM fucked up?
35:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh blah blah blah.
35:02
SPEAKER_03: Then am I gonna go low, blah, blah, blah.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: And then it's in the day, and this, and they just worked me up and I it's and I just, you know, I'm not you found a different way to cope, and that's important.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: But you found a different way to cope with it, which was get off CGM.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: What a crazy thing, like, right?
35:22
SPEAKER_03: What?
35:23
SPEAKER_03: That you went off CGM.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: I never in a I never in a million years to realize how I never in a uh in a million years realized how how much of a mental peace of peace, mental peace of mind it's given me.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: How much of like a it's felt like a mental success.
35:40
SPEAKER_03: It's been a you know, like an aha mental moment.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Because you gave it so much fuel.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: And again, that's fine.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: It's okay that you give it some.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I did give it, yeah.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Right?
35:49
SPEAKER_01: I give it a fuel.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: You gave it a lot of fuel, which is the same thing that I literally talk to when I'm coaching someone that is in the same position that you are, that they have so much anxiety about the thought process of everything that goes into managing diabetes, that's what we have to get at first.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: And if it comes down to it, which we've had this conversation on multiple occasions for the last six years that we've known each other, if it comes down to the option, the best solution is to just to get the fuck off of the technology, then get the fuck off the technology, which is what you did.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Which is which is what I give you, I've given ever since you told me that you did this, I've given you high praise about it.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: But what I'm not gonna sit here and do to all the people that are listening to these conversations is agree with you that that was the only only option.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: I didn't I've never asked you to agree with me.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: I've laughed on your phone.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm just telling you my opinion.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay to have these opinions.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: It's okay for me not to not to agree with you.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: It's okay for well, and well, hold on, let me restate this.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Let me restate this.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Because I need to restate this because I don't want people to, because people have listened to the previous episodes.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to call the ambulance.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Don't call the ambulance.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to sit here and say, like, but you did agree with them because I did, because it was the right decision for you.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: That's how I agreed with you.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not gonna agree that every single person should do that, right?
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Because it's not it's not the right for every single person.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: It's not right for me.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: I would never get off a CGM, even though I'll even though I'm getting this alarm saying that I'm low, and and before I even before we even press before we even pressed record, I had the the the stupid uh low L O, which means that you're not getting a signal, right?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not an accurate signal.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: So I know that this 59 and low is not correct.com EG6?
37:54
SPEAKER_00: G7?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: G7.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: 15 day?
37:58
SPEAKER_00: No, not the 15 day, the the 10 day.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: They haven't uh they haven't officially rolled that, that's not like their primary product yet.
38:07
SPEAKER_03: The 15 day?
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I figured that's all that's like don't work themselves up to the point that'll be their Well, it's it's one of their products, but you have to remember that people are stuck in their ways.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: People are still.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I I would say when I went to diabetes camp, I would say that I'm gonna be destroyed for this comet, but I don't even care.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: No, it's okay.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: As my opinion of what I saw, I would say close to 50% of people are still in the G6 of these kids that are at this camp.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: That's a mind-blowing thing to me because I don't think the G6 is I I think the G7 is way better than the G6.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Personally.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: But I think so many people are still on the G6.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question or to answer your statement from earlier, you said you made a statement of saying that you would think that Dexcom's putting a lot of time and energy into the g into the 15 day because that's the new thing.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily it because so many people are stuck in their ways.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: I've got multiple, multiple clients that are still on the omnipod dash, which is the DYI, because they don't want to go to the omnipod 5, because they feel like they have more control and their diabetes on the dash.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: I can't even believe that the dash is still a thing.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And because you can't be on the dash on the G7, so you have to be on the G6.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's all of these different things about what you want to do and what you not don't want to do.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: I think I've been on humolog for two and a half decades.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's fine.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Who cares?
39:45
SPEAKER_03: That's not just saying like decades, bro.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which Lemjev and Fios is better than Humologue and Novolog because it works faster.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: But people are still on humolog and novolog.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with that.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: It's what you want to do.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: What do you have in place in your management that works best for you?
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And then on the other side of that, not even on the other side, it's like the other step of that would be do you want to make a different adjustment?
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to experiment with something else?
40:22
SPEAKER_01: I was bold and wanted to experiment with a Fresza because I wanted to get away from not having to every single time pre-bolis for 15 plus minutes.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get away from it.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: So I tried a Fresza and it worked really well.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: It allowed me to not have to pre-bolish all the freaking time.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Which but I've had my issues with the Fresa too.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: Which I do want to tell people, if you're listening and you're learning, here's something plain and simple.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: I just would have quit pre-I've told Ken this to his face a thousand times.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: I would have just quit pre-bolishing, and I guarantee you it would have worked successfully for me.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: But Ken was not of that, huh?
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Ken is just not of that belief.
41:06
SPEAKER_03: That's not how he is wired, and that is the cool and fun part about diabetes, you know.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So But it does work for you, correct?
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Not pre-bolishing?
41:16
SPEAKER_01: It does work.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: It does work for you, not pre-bolishing.
41:18
SPEAKER_03: That's what I mean, yeah.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing, Graham, and I and I love you for this.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: What?
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Success or failure.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Success or failure.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: No.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: You you not pre-bolishing right now.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: You I'm I don't wanna we'll we'll come back to a fresa.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: This is important.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: This is a very important thing.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: You using humilog right now, okay, and not pre-bolishing, because you don't really pre-bolish, it's working for you, correct?
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Not pre-bolishing.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: It's working for you, correct?
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Here's my caveat to that.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Here's my thing to that.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: It's because you don't have to take that much insulin.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: If you are eating tons of carbohydrates, like me, I eat tons of freaking carbohydrates.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: If you were eating tons of high glycemic load carbohydrates, which means it's gonna hit you and it's gonna hit you hard when it breaks down into sugar.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: If you were doing that, you would have to pre-bolish.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: There would be no getting around it being on humolog.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: You can get around it, just like I'm getting around it using a freza, you can get around it because you don't eat a lot of high glycemic carbohydrates.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: You don't eat tons of carbohydrates throughout the day because your eating window is super small.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to worry about having this crazy pre-bolus.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: You're not eating crazy tons of pasta, you're not eating tons of pizza, you're not eating high glycemic foods, you're not, you're not eating things that require seven, eight, nine, ten units of insulin at a time.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to do a lot of pre-bolishing.
42:58
SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
43:01
SPEAKER_03: According to you, I'm doing all this hard work, but it's not, it's just the factors.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: It's in the environmental factors that are actually No, that's not what I'm saying.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: It's not me, it's not it's not me to blame.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: Ken is saying I don't, I I shouldn't be congratulated.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: You should be congratulated because you have you should 100% be congratulated because you have figured out what works for you.
43:24
SPEAKER_03: We had we've had had some car conversations with my wife, and like for instance, when I told her how much insulin you took, how different it is, you know, I was explaining.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: I was like, you know, Ken, for instance, who's a you know Kenwell is the always, I'm sure you love this and hate this.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: It's always easy to use it as a comparison because you're fit and a gym guy and all that shit.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: So but that doesn't matter.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: The shot has nothing to do with it.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: The gym piece is a very small.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
43:54
SPEAKER_03: That's crazy amount of but yeah, and and I think you're right.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: My life hold on, and Don't argue against this.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: This is just what I'm saying.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, if I had your job, if I had your job, yeah, I could consume I think I would be eating a lot more, consuming more calories, because then you're like you're always on your feet, you're always doing stuff, dude.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: You're you are you know, but there's again your job, your life requires my life does not require but my life does not require me to eat a crap load of carbohydrates and take a lot of insulin.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: That's just the way I enjoy eating food.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So the exercise piece has nothing to do with it.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And I would also argue, going back to diabetes confessions, the series that I just dropped, if you haven't listened to the previous episode, go listen to it.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Here's my diabetes confession.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't exercise every freaking day.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: I haven't exercised.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Today was the first time I actually physically exercised in five days because I was camping.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: I didn't go run the way I wanted, I didn't go do a run like the way I wanted to when I was camping.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: So the exercise piece doesn't matter.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: It's just an added bonus because it increases insulin sensitivity and has a lot of other benefits to your overall health.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: But the exercise piece doesn't matter.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: Hey, you guys will wrap it up and having some fun.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: In in two minutes, because I ask this all the time, what is exercise?
45:25
SPEAKER_01: It's movement.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: It is movement with intention.
45:30
SPEAKER_03: Even breaking down a campsite, like if you're moving for an hour, you're moving for two hours, like that's that's neutral considered exercise.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: But when I talk about exercise, I'm talking about exercise with intention.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Exercise with intention coming from the four quadrants, strength training, low intensity exercise, high intensity hit exercise, and recovery and rest and recovery.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: That's if you're if you're intentionally doing something from one or multiple of those quadrants, then you're exercising.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: If you're just going for a walk, so quad quadrant one's strength training, resistance training, strength, quadrant two is low intensity exercise, low intensity movement, quadrant three is high intensity, quad quadrant four is rest and recovery.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my plan is that any type of movement is technically exercise.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Any type of it it's with intention, dude.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: It's with intention.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: You going and taking your dog for a walk, a walk, and not elevating your heart rate, or not your heart rate's not like getting up to like past zone one, you can make an argument that it's not technically exercise because you're not stressing the system in the way that you need to stress the system.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're going out for a light jog, or like you, you're taking your dogs for a walk, but you're actually jogging, that's a different story.
47:01
SPEAKER_01: If I'm just going for a walk around the around the block, I do this sometimes.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: If I go around the walk around, go around the block and walk and recording myself doing a reel or for something for social media, I would not consider that exercise.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm still walking, but I'm not walking with intention of actually getting cardiovascular exercise.
47:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: If I go jog around the block and I'm trying to make a reel, yes, that's exercise because I'm gonna be huffing and puffing as I'm trying to talk.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: So you're not gonna be.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: But if I walk around the block, if I walk, if I'm just going for a light walk around the block because I'm walking and stopping with the dog or my kids, I'm walking and stopping.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I would not consider that exercise.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: It's still good for your cardiovascular system, it's still good for your system.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna have the impact on insulin sensitivity as it would as you go jog around the block, or you go do resistance training, or you go take a hit class, or you go do a Pilates class, or you go do a yoga class, or you go do a meditation class, or you go do a do something and get stretched.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna have the same intention on your system that if you just walk your dog around the block.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Not saying you shouldn't do that.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's not not good for you.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying it's not this I don't think that's exercise.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
48:26
SPEAKER_01: It's a very fine line, yeah, and everyone's got their own idea of what exercise actually is.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
48:33
SPEAKER_03: You'd be very proud of the dogs are here with me.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: It's so hot, and they're jumping at the bit though.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: So I'll get up sometimes at like 5 a.m.
48:43
SPEAKER_03: And right outside my neighborhood, there's a hill.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: So I just start, and it's like by the time I get to the top of the hill, it's maybe an eighth of a mile, but that is such a good workout, and then we go down, and then we do the same thing, we come back, and like that's a non-existent workout, and I am pouring sweat.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: I am pouring sweat from something like that, you know.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and and here's here's the cave, here's the thing to this, and not even a caveat.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: The other thing, we had this conversation about sweating, and like, is it is sweating like good for like is that like good for your heart rate or whatever, whatever, whatever, right?
49:20
SPEAKER_01: So here's the other caveat.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: You're pouring sweat for two different reasons.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: You're pouring sweat because your heart rate's increasing, going up and down, or it's going, or it's coming up to a specific point and staying there, but you are also sweating profusely because your body is trying to cool itself down, as we've talked about before.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Your body's trying to cool itself down because it's so flipping hot outside.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, so you you're sweating profusely because of two different reasons.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: You're okay.
49:51
SPEAKER_03: In a survival situation, you would last a lot longer in heat than cold.
49:56
SPEAKER_03: Probably, yes.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Probably yes.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: If you have access to water.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: If you only if you have access to water, you would not survive longer.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: I perceived an amount of hours, wouldn't it?
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: You would technically you would survive longer in the heat than the cold, but you still would not survive that long.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: You could survive longer in the heat if you have access to water.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: It's it's essentially dehydration versus hypothermia.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess so.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: All right.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: Good talk.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: I gotta go.
50:28
SPEAKER_03: See how this yeah.
50:29
SPEAKER_03: This was great.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: This is good.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: This is good.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: Man, we get off with some tangents.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: We didn't even get to like some of the things I want to talk about.
50:37
SPEAKER_03: It's nice if we don't see, I haven't talked to you for a like when it's like when it hits that like nine day mark, then it's like it's on.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: I just I really hope that uh I want I want to say this last piece to all of you that are listening.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: And I really, really want you to consider doing this.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: I would love it if you sent me a message on Instagram, on TikTok, wherever, on email, whatever platform that you're on.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: Hex if you're listening on Spotify or you're watching on Spotify, because Spotify is now video, I believe it's video now.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: And or if you're or if you're on YouTube watching this, just comment on this episode.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: I really want to know if you enjoy these conversations.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: One, and two, I really want to know if you like it when Graham and I go back and forth and bicker, and if you enjoy or like us going off in crazy tangents.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't, then we need to make a change on how we're communicating and talking in these episodes.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: Or I just need to drop more solo episodes with specific information.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: So I personally would love to know that because I know if I'm listening to two guys that maybe I don't have rapport with or don't really haven't really listened to many episodes of, and two people are going off crazy tangents and actually not talking about specific information or specific things that maybe I want to hear, I would tune myself out.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want you to do that.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: So I would love it if you comment on this episode and just tell us if you liked it, tell us if you like the bickering, tell us if you like the going off in tangents.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: So that's it.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know that information.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: What about Grant?
52:27
SPEAKER_01: What about you, Grant?
52:28
SPEAKER_01: Would you like to know that information?
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Or you just don't care?
52:30
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't couldn't care less what people think.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: God, that's hilarious.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: I care.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: I care about what you think.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: So let me know if you like the going off in tangents and the bickering back and forth.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: I like the bickering back and forth, but I don't know if you actually like the going off in tangents.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you everybody for listening, and we will see you guys next time.