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REWIND: Pittsburgh Sports Conspiracy Theories​ · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to a very suspicious episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: On this episode, we'll be going over some of those sports conspiracy theories that uh you might have heard through over the years.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um so uh, you know, get your tinfoil hats ready and you know get your underground bunkers stocked with all your food.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we are not having Alex Jones as a guest on this podcast because we can't afford that kind of lawsuit and stuff.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the dictionary, Mary Muster decides a conspiracy theory as a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as a result as a secret plot by usual powerful conspirators, such as Roger Goodell.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_07: Sounds about right.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: He sounds evil.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: For each of these, I will give them a tinfoil hat rating.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just to explain that, one would be like it's probably true, or five, just we're totally out there in ridiculous land.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're just we're just making stuff up at this point, right?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_07: I think it's a good system.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: It it sounds right.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: The first one was the Jesse James catch was ruled incomplete because the NFL wanted Bill Belichick to win a Super Bowl of some sort, or just win in general.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um so background in 2018, a key game with playoff inclinations, which we've covered this before.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was the Steelers and the Patriots, and it was in Pittsburgh, and I think the winner of that would have had home field in the playoffs, correct him?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_06: That's correct, yeah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers are driving down the field late in the game.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Ben throws a ball to tight end Jesse James, who catches the well catches the ball.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Funny, funny I should say that, huh?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: He he catches the ball and steps into the end zone, but as he's stepping into the end zone, he kind of leans in.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: And as he's leaning, his hands hit the ground, and the ball moves in his hands.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I that's my definition of advance.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's all kinds of fun stuff, and people, you know, say, so the ruling was that the ball had hit the ground, and I don't think the ball ever hit the ground.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I still think his hand was underneath the ball, and the ball was spinning on top of his hand, but who am I?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not Alfonso Riviero.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: So uh we'll play this, it has a lot of cool audio and stuff.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: First of the goal with the
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: 10.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: A little high drama from Hinesfield.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: To the end zone.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: Jesse James.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_05: Two plays have taken the distance.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: The spiel is right throughout back ahead with 28 seconds to go.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: And Ralphisberger for the drive of the year for him so far.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_05: New England is stunned right now.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_08: Seven words would quickly change the move inside Heinz Field.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: They are verifying it upstairs, and there's no doubt it's going to hold up.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why this is taking so long to review it because clearly Harmon's nowhere close to him unless they're looking at the football.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: Did it wiggle or anything to the ground?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: That well looks like a touchdown to me.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's safe.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: That gotta be safe.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody touched it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: Are they looking at the football, possibly losing control?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: They don't think he caught it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_08: This one's tough.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, this could go either way.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_08: That ball moves in his hand.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_05: He's got a control all the way because he's going to the ground.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_05: So if he if it if it moves on the ground, it's gonna be incomplete.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Here's Tony Carenti, and this is mighty, mighty big.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: After reviewing a play, the receiver and the end zone did not survive the ground.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's an incomplete pass.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god! This bird's ball second down and ten.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: What's a catch anymore?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: we don't know.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really irrelevant how I feel about it, to be honest with you.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna change the outcome of the game.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna cry over spilt milk and all of that crap and talk about replay.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I ain't doing it.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: As we can see here, Roth Litzberger completes a pass to James, and James is going to the ground as he reaches the goal line.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the key here.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: He is going to the ground.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: By rule, to complete the process of the catch, he must survive the ground.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: Are you surprised they overturned it?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: Looks like the ball moved.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's to talk to the crew about that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: You heard Bill Belichick in there, giving his two cents.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it t the Riviera is just obviously lying.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: The ball's not on the ground.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's on top of his hand.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Don't even yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_07: So we talked we've talked about this before, like you said.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_07: It's it's an egregiously horrific call.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_07: It's because the NFL for a full decade had no idea what a catch was.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_07: We weren't the only ones that got hosed.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_07: Uh Detroit got hosed once, Dallas got hosed once in a playoff game.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_07: You know, stuff that that to the naked eye of anybody looking is a catch, but the NFL has all these goofy roles.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_07: They seem to have fixed that.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_07: Um in terms of like a conspiracy, I think I don't think there was any conspiracy.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_07: I think it was just a bad, a bad, not even a bad call, because it was the stupid role that they had, or or didn't the ambiguous role that they had, but it was more just it was more of that than it was anybody trying to like out to get the Steelers.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: And and I and that video is pretty good because it gives like a lot of the quotes, like Belichick dead padding and Ribier just totally lying.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't even know what he was looking at.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's like one of those don't believe your lying eyes kind of things.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_07: Well, he's got a defense at that point they had already made the call, so was he gonna say, like, well, if you look very close, you can see how we messed this up.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, he's not gonna say that.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_07: So I think again, it's just it's just the terrible it we joked about it in a previous episode, Steve.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_07: It's like you you couldn't just catch it, you had to catch it, you had to like take two steps, you had to hold it up in the air, count the five, you know, say the pledge of allegiance.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: If he would have if he would have walked into the end zone instead of diving into the end zone, it's probably a catch.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: If he would have walked in the end zone and then dropped the ball and never gone to the ground, then it's a catch.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, whatever.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_07: It's just a terrible, um a terrible really era in NFL history where they couldn't figure out what a catch was.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_07: Again, they seem to have corrected that, thank God.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_07: And and that's really all it was.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_07: I mean it was it was that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_07: If we were doing an episode on, you know, terrible roles or or egregious calls like we did previously, then that one's very high on the list.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_07: But in terms of a conspiracy, I don't I don't see any conspiracy.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_07: What did you what did you give that on your tinfoil hat?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: I gave it a two, uh a tinfoil hat rating of two.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably just a bad rule.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't I I think there was some favoritism for the Patriots because they had other calls that year that went the exact opposite way.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: But it was just a bad rule.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, it had screwed over other teams that weren't playing the Patriots.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it it just was a bad rule that was inconsistently applied.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it it was almost yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's where the it was almost like the NFL was just looking for a way to discount that touchdown.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if Ben doesn't throw an interception on the next play, maybe it doesn't matter.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_07: Maybe you know they get Well, that's the one thing everybody forgets.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_07: The Steelers still had the ball uh and it was second or third down.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_07: They and a field goal sends the game into overtime.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I don't know how much time they had.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_07: They said 28 seconds in that clip.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so so so they they actually still could have kicked the field goal to go to overtime, but they kind of screwed it up and then they ended up throwing an interception.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_07: It it was no one will ever remember that.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_07: That the Steelers offense kind of blew blew apart after that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_07: Like they still could have at least sent the game to overtime and they didn't.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_07: But I was in the stadium that day, and I remember uh like they like they said in the clip, like, I wonder what's taking them so long to look at this.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_07: You know, because when you're in the stadium, they're not showing you all the angles, you're just kind of sitting there waiting.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_07: And and we were kind of thinking the same thing, like, okay, I I get it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_07: They're just they're reviewing it because it's like the last few seconds of the game, but it's a touchdown.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_07: And then when it took so long, and then when he came out and announced that, I it was shock.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, it was just total shock.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you even heard Jim Nance was like I mean, who's no like stealer lover?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, he's pretty, you know, down the middle, like Yeah, he said he couldn't believe it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it was like he's like, Oh, I it shouldn't be a touchdown.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_07: So Yeah, it was ridiculous.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_07: The Patriots always get that kind of garbage where they get they benefit from something, some obscure you know, thing in the rolebook or something that's ambiguous in the rulebook, and that's just you know, not that they're again, I'm not gonna be inzer.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_07: They're a great team, they they deserved all six Super Bowls, all that stuff, but it's annoying how they always benefit from garbage like that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you're not gonna like the next one anymore then, too.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh The Spygate tapes help the Patriots beat the Steelers in the 2004 championship game.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so the Patriots are caught taping other teams' signals so they know what plays are being called on defense.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was defense, right, Tim?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a there's a there is a play like that that I always thought was kind of indicative of this in the 2004 AFC Championship game, there was a perfect play call against like a Steelers.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like Paul Molo does like a blitz in they kind of caught the Steelers like in a perfect play for that, like a reverse or something that scored a touchdown and kind of put that game out of reach.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'll I'll say this like I I mean Bill Cowers basically said that he didn't think it had a an effect, and I know a couple other Steelers, and Jimmy Johnson came out and said that you know, one time he had stolen like somebody threw away like then the offensive coordinator of some team threw it in the garbage can like their offensive playbook or something or the calls for that game, and he like he went and dug through the garbage and found it, and he said it didn't really he didn't think it helped them that much.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: So and there was a there was too like I remember there was a Dolphins I want to say Dolphins Jets game in the playoffs or Dolphins Patriots.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was Dolphins Jets.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that was when Belichick was on one of the on the Jets maybe or something.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like Bernie Parmeley had had given the whatever team he I don't know if it was the Patriots or the Jets had given the them all the signals of the Dolphins, and it's like if you know like a guy's gonna do that, like that's such an easy like just change one or two of your plays and you'll totally cross somebody up and do it at a key moment.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: But um I I don't know.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I I put that as a tinfoil hat rating of one.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think it's more of like Eric Mangini was just getting revenge on it on his former employer Bill Belichick.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: And 'cause that's the guy like who was involved with like pointing like didn't he wasn't he the one that pointed out on all that, yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Roger Roger Goodell didn't help things by burning the spy gate tapes.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like if they were so like not helpful and innocuous, why not just put them out there and okay, we'll see what they are, and I I don't know.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I I've always thought that whole thing was overblown.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_07: I mean the year that the year that they got caught and and then the the like focus was super on them was the year that they went undefeated.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_07: So it wasn't like oh they oh this is just they won all their games because they had all these signals or whatever.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_07: I'm sure it gave them an edge.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_07: I'm sure it did.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_07: Um, the Steelers didn't play well in either of those championship games.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_07: You didn't mention the 2001 game, but there's people that think that that, you know, if they were doing it, they would have been doing it then too.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_07: And but that that game was the one where Troy Brown returned a punt return for a touchdown because Troy Edwards stepped out of bounds or what, stepped out of bounds and came back in, got a penalty.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_07: Then they had the block field goal return for a touchdown.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_07: That that has nothing to do with knowing the play that's coming.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_07: Like that they were gonna kick a field goal, that was the play that was coming, you know.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_07: So I don't know, Tim.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they weren't.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_07: And in 2004, I mean Brady just carved up the defense.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_07: Ben was a rookie, Ben made some bad mistakes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_07: He threw that interception to Rodney Harrison, that was a pick six.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_07: You know, and and did Rodney Harrison like know where to go on the field?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I I just Well, the Steelers made like a furious comeback in the second half, but they kind of dug too big of a hole in the first half.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean Denver knocked New England out of the playoffs in 05.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the next year.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_07: Indianapolis knocked them out of the playoffs in 06.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_07: So if if they if that was just their bread and butter and no one could they just knew every play and no one could beat them, then they would have won every Super Bowl, and they didn't.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_07: You know, so I I think it gives them an edge.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_07: I think it's you know, there's truth to it for sure.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_07: I I probably actually would have given it maybe a two or a two.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but did I give that?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: I gave that one a one.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's what I said.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_07: You gave it a one, which is yeah, you're saying it's it's really not it's true.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_07: It's true.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, oh, I see.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_07: It goes the opposite.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: The higher you go, the more ridiculous it gets.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, okay.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about my radius.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: No, you were.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: I the more ten photo hats you're putting on, the the worse.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: The crazier you are.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_07: That makes sense.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_07: That makes sense.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_07: So no, I wouldn't have given it a one.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_07: I would have given it um probably like a four.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_07: There's truth to it, but how much did it really help?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_07: Uh but it really happened.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: It really it wasn't like oh it it's like provably true that it happened.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: How much did it benefit it?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's the debate.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_07: That's the conspiracy, is that the Steelers the Steelers win two more Super Bowls or in two more Super Bowls if the Patriots don't have a video camera, and I I just don't buy that at all.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_07: I really don't, but people, you know, that's what people want to believe.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_07: And I and I get it because the Patriots they they cheat, and you know, they did cheat.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_07: Like you can't say that they didn't cheat.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um, okay, number and this will conclude the Patriots part of our podcast.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: We'll we'll just get them all out here early.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the NFL wanted the Patriots to win Super Bowl 36 in 2001 because of 9-11.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you remember that one, Tim?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I remember people saying that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like the Steelers, we just went over that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: They lost the 01 championship game, but once again, you know, Troy Edwards doesn't run out of bounds, Chris Brown doesn't get a field goal kick, blocked.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and they had a their secondary really wasn't that good.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I I don't know that Kurt Warder wouldn't have carved up the Steelers' secondary.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, quite honestly, Drew, I I've also I've always thought if Tom Brady doesn't get hurt, they probably blow the Steelers out in that game.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_07: So the Steelers shot themselves in the foot that game.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_07: Cordell Stewart threw interceptions in the second half when they were they were trying to come back, and and they just lost.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, the the Rams were a really good team and they lost to New England too.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_07: New England just had everybody's number that year.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_07: They were kind of that team of destiny.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's you don't you don't think you were fixing it for 9-11, because 9-11 it happened.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_07: But it's like why, because they're called the Patriots?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, that's such a stupid reason to want them to win the Super Bowl.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_07: And a Steelers Rams Super Bowl would have been much more compelling if you to if you think about fan bases and you know and all that kind of stuff.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_07: Um, I uh to me that would have been more compelling than than the Patriots being there if you're the NFL and you wanted people to watch or whatever.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_07: So, Steve, I one thing I'll say about conspiracy theories in general.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_07: To me, there's there's always two things that that I feel like you have to really look at when you evaluate a conspiracy theory, and it's it's motive and logistics, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_07: And I feel like people people don't do that enough nearly enough because there's so much conspiracy theories out there certainly aren't going to get into any of the the government ones or anything like that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_07: But but what's the motive?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_07: Like in this case, what's the motive?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_07: Like, what does the NFL get out of the Patriots winning the Super Bowl?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: They get a nice story for 9-11.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_07: Because they're called the Patriots.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, that's yeah, again, the the motive is pretty weak there.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_07: And then logistics comes down to okay, so that means all the referees have to be in on it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Ed Hawkley, who officiated the 0-1 game, was like, yeah, Troy Edwards, you're stepping out of bounds.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, there weren't any bad calls.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_07: Troy Edwards was out of bounds.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so so someone else had to be in on it, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_07: How do you how are you going to orchestrate that?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_07: You have to have representations for the cigarette man.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, like so, so motive and logistics in this case, like I don't see either of them in at play.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, at least with the Jesse James thing, you could argue, okay, one person just had to make a bad call and then and then they got the result they wanted.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_07: But in 01, I mean, there was the Tuck roll, but they still had to win two other games, and I can't see any anything that helped them do that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_07: So no, this one's garbage.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I gave it a four.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, no conspiracy, just Cordell was not good enough to outplay a pretty mediocre Patriots team.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how about this one, Tim?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is kind of a newer one.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I have no proof, and there's nothing to like I I'm totally out in the dark here on this one.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: So Colin Dunlap broke Chris Mac's jaw in an off-air fight, or was it the other way around?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: One of them have have you heard this one?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so for for folks that don't know who those people are, there's a there's a ra there's a sports radio station here in Pittsburgh called 937 the fan.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_07: Those two guys were two of the morning hosts.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_07: And then they were taken off the air, or or not taken off the air, they just weren't on the air for like.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, they just disappeared, yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_07: And there was no like there was no update of why aren't they on the air?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_07: And then uh eventually that it came out that they were both taken off the morning show, and I think they're reassigned to somewhere else, and then the rumor came out that they had gotten into a fight with each other, a physical fight, and that's what happened.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_07: And I think one of them, Dunlap, might have come out on Twitter and said that was ridiculous, and that never happened.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_07: Um I don't personally care, Steve, because I don't I don't I don't listen to the to that station.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_07: I I like to listen to podcasts instead of the radio these days, but that's just my personal preference.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_07: Um but I had heard that, yes.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's just they just had I think the weirdest part was they just mysteriously disappeared.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like no explanation was given.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't like, oh, we're revamping, and they put who Doran Dickerson and the other guy is.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: See, it's that memorable, but I mean they're not as memorable as you and me, Tim.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I would never I would never hit your hit you in the face.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_07: If the if we don't drop a new episode of the podcast, then we could start a conspiracy rumor that Steve and I got into a fight.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um some quotes about it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: There actually was a quote from whoever runs that place over there, Pittsburgh marketing manager Michael Spacapoli.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is from the post because that as the fan continues to drive the sports conversation in the city, it is important for the radio station to be able to deliver on all platforms where the incredible sports fans in Pittsburgh are every day.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: And this move allows us to do that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: So they they said Unlap and Mac are transitioning to multimedia roles.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: They will have a presence on all of Audacity's Pittsburgh properties.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it just then the rumors had swirled about them.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think I I put this as a tenfoil hat rating as two.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Something happened.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it was a altercation, just business, or somebody got mad at somebody and they said, Well, fine, we'll fire you both.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like a corporate move to me.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like they both got in some sort of argument and both of them said, I can't work with the other one, and so they said, Well, you're both gone.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_07: So it's entirely possible.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_07: I mean that sounds like a corporate move, doesn't it, Tim?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're just I'm not gonna pick sides.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: You neither you are really you aren't like exactly Howard Stern, so you're gone.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_07: You know, I uh right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_07: That that probably makes sense.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_07: And and I think, you know, I mean people in Pittsburgh are very particular about their media uh figures, and and those guys, especially Dunlap, is very you either he's one of those, you either love him or you hate him.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, people don't like him at all.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I noticed that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_07: But some people do.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_07: Some people were like again, it's one of those things, and we have a lot of sports personalities like that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_07: I think I think the days of like Myron Cope and Like Stan Savern.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_07: Stan Savern, the late Stan Savern Savern.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think those are Jokin.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_07: Right, right.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_07: There were there were guys who were just universally, you know, um not love well yet loved, I would say.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_07: You know, and if you didn't like him, it was just not your cup of tea.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_07: As opposed to now it's kind of like it's it's that almost it's it's very sports-esque, right?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_07: You either I either love that guy or I hate that guy, and and so I think that probably is what led to some of that speculation.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_07: But to your point, when you handle something like that, you just somebody disappears off of a radio show and then you don't give any explanation for three weeks.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_07: I can see why, you know, there's a conspiracy theory.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I don't I think that was poorly handled, and and I think too, they don't want to get rid of them because then they'll have to pay them to do nothing for six months.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: So they just kind of made up this like role that they're doing.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_07: So make it up, make it up on day one, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_07: Why wait three weeks?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_07: But that like you said, that that sounds like you're right.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_07: Something happened, who knows what it was.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_07: Something happened and they needed time this word out and figure out what they were gonna do about it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And and once I guarantee you, I think both their contracts are up in January of next year.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: I guarantee you by the time January rolls around, neither of them are with the station anymore.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I'd be willing to bet cash money on that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Unless they, you know, get some crazy, you know, kind of something happens where they make their own way.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: But oh well.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck in both their future careers, I guess.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: So uh here's a good one.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jerry Jones paid Neil O'Donnell to throw two interceptions against the Cowboys in Super Bowl thirty, the Steelers lose to Dallas because of Neil O'Donnell's two interceptions.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, the second one was really bad.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: He did throw to Larry Brown, who was just kind of just standing there.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, really, Jerry Brown Jones had to pay him for that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I I don't once again your motivation and logistics, so like like literally wouldn't like if Neil O let's say Neil O'Donnell doesn't throw those two interceptions, leads the Steelers to either a comeback or an almost comeback, but like it just falls short on fourth down, or you know, he or or he pulls a Ben Rothelsburger and throws like a late second touchdown and they win, God forbid.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, wouldn't Neil O'Donnell be worth a ton more money than he already had gotten in free agency?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I I just I I just don't believe Jerry Jones was like gonna be able to pay him enough money.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then like it would like cast a shadow over his career, like Neil O'Donnell's like never really lived that down.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like if Neil O'Donnell does that, he's a legend in Pittsburgh for the rest of his life.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And two, like, how could like how could the Steelers ever let him go in free agency like they did?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't you think so, Tim?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how how would Neil O'Donnell have ever left town if he's a Super Bowl hero?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, would Dan Rooney have been that ballsy to like, nope, hit the bricks, we're going with Mike Tomzak?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, uh so so number one, I I just so so I've always thought this one was crazy.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_07: However, I just want to validate why people think it, because if you watch the replay of those interceptions, especially the first one.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Larry Brown's wide open.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_07: He's wide open too.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_07: And and and the first one, especially, he he's not Larry Brown has no business being where he is.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_07: Like, I don't know why they had Larry Brown on a side of the field where there were no receivers and why he stayed there.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_07: Like, I I get your playing zone, but you have to, I don't know, at least run in the direction of the receivers, and he's just covering brass.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_07: And Neil throws it right to him.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_07: And the second one's similar, although it's not quite as not quite as bad because you can make the argument that Andre Hastings was go went the wrong way.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_07: But so I so I get why people think that.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_07: Also, like we talked about in the episode we did on that Super Bowl, Neil O'Tonnell was always known as the safe quarterback.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_07: He didn't throw bad passes, he would take a sack rather than throw a ball into tight coverage, uh, or throw the ball away rather than, you know, that was that was who he was.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_07: So for him to throw not one but two completely egregious interceptions to the same guy uh it in in the second half of the Super Bowl.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_07: I so I get why people think it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_07: Again, going back to logistics and motivation, I mean, you're right, Steve.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_07: There, there the motivation to win, he was Neil was going to be a free agent after that game was over.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_07: A soup the Super Bowl winning quarterback being free agent.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_07: Imagine what that would have been like for his career, the money he would have gotten paid, and the people that would have been falling all over themselves to sign him.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_07: There was way more motivation for him to win that game than there was to take whatever money Jerry Jones was supposedly offering.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_07: The other thing is, you know, that was the Cowboys' third Super Bowl.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_07: So did Jerry Jones pay Jim Kelly to throw a bunch of interceptions or Thurman Thomas to fumble in that one Super Bowl?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean or not remember where his helmet is.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_07: Right, right.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_07: I I mean, so I I just, yeah, there's not.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_07: It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_07: Also, uh, you know, if if he's paying Neil O'Donnell to lose the Super Bowl, if I'm Neil O'Donnell, I'm I'm throwing an incomplete pass on fourth down rather than throwing the ball to the wide open cornerback, right?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it looks less obvious.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_07: It's like, oh, it's just a bad pass, yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_07: If if you're O'Donnell, you're the quarterback, you're the guy with the ball in your hands on every single play, then just wait until you get to a certain spot in the field, overthrow the guy, throw the ball into the ground, oh, fourth down, turn it over on downs.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, it'd be it would have been so much easier for him to uh to to throw the game and not look like uh like he was doing it on purpose.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: I gave that one a five, a full-blown, ridiculous, stupid, didn't happen.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even sure what you're talking about.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, I I I think the Steelers would have if he's like a Super Bowl winning quarterback, I don't see how the Steelers don't re-sign him, but I don't know.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Dan Rooney, I mean he did he did some he he didn't he didn't blink when it comes to stuff like that.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that would have been interesting.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_07: We did it like we did an alternate history episode.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_07: That would have been an interesting one to sort of think about.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_07: Like what if what if Neil leads him on the game-winning drive and they beat Dallas in the Super Bowl?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_07: What what happens after that?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_07: That would be an interesting thing to explore.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder, yeah, I wonder what would have happened.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: That would have been um so uh sticking with the Steelers in the Super Bowl, um the N uh the NFL referees handed Super Bowl 40 to the Steelers, so Jerome Bettis could get his Super Bowl ring.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: I like your reaction.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Just a eh.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_07: I I I'm just so tired of this one.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_07: I hate this one so much, and the Seattle fans and their whining.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_07: And I I just yeah, go ahead.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: The Steelers make an improbable run.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: I get the feeling you're gonna have a lot to say about this one.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: The Steelers make an improbable run as a sixth seed all the way to the Super Bowl, and it's in Jerome Bettis's hometown of Detroit.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the NFL fixed the game with some close calls, so he gets a ring.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, like we we we did an a whole Super Bowl 40 podcast on that, and there were definitely some close calls, but I didn't think they were egregious.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Not anything to the Jesse James level.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you could definitely debate either way whether Ben scored a touchdown there, or but that definitely held Clark Hagens, the late Clark, geez, another late, late person, another late Clark Hagens on a on a pass play.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean AC Hampton even got a sack at a key moment, so go figure.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_07: So Seattle did not.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, Seattle played a terrible game, also, and and the offensive pass interference, the guy pushed off.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_07: The the holding on Hagins was holding.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_07: You know, it's it's one of those things you could argue, well, uh like you said, Steve, close calls, not bad calls.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_07: Not none of those calls were egregious.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_07: I think the the worst call they made that really shouldn't have been a penalty was when Hasselback they called him for diving at somebody's legs on an interception return.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_07: The interception still would have happened.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a rule.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a rule.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why they don't want like quarterbacks doing that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I I think I but I have seen them call that in other games.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a weird rule, but it's a rule.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_07: But that play didn't even matter because the interception still would have counted.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_07: So like again, it it's it's it was it was it was like a n they just formed a narrative that and that just became the narrative.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_07: And then and then Seattle, you know, tried to propagate it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_07: The referee even came out later and said he was haunted by it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_07: And it's like okay, whatever.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_07: I I I just go through go through that game again.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_07: It's one of those things going back to first of all, motive and and logistics.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_07: You know, they wanted a nice story because why?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_07: Because the Super Bowl's not a nice nice enough story with a gazillion people watching.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, and and and and then you know, logistics, uh it it it's it's go through if you really go through and analyze the the each play that they say is a bad call, just go through the whole game and analyze it, then pick out some of the other calls.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_07: You know, oh they called offensive pass interference in the end zone.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_07: They never call offensive pass interference, except in the same game they called it on Heath Miller.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_07: So you know, but no one will ever remember that, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, no one will remember that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_07: Uh and and I always say we when we talk about it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even remember that too.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: I could remember by you.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, well, I do.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_07: And it's that's what I'm saying.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and and maybe it never happened.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's good.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they implanted that memory in your brain.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they did.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: They did.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Roger Goodell did.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Or no.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Was Roger Goodell even the commissioner back then?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, maybe not.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was Pete Paul Taggalib.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_07: Ben diving into the end zone was could have gone either way, but they had called it a touchdown on the field.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_07: There was no way, there was no evidence to reverse it.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_07: Uh and and that was third down.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_07: They still could have dove into the end zone on fourth down.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_07: Again, there's all right, I'm gonna stop because I get I just get annoyed talking about this.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_07: It's just so interesting.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you think your blood pressure's at right now?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Too high.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I gave that a tin foil hat rating of a three.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I could see I've been there with the Seahawks fans when you're you know, I I really think the spy gate tapes help the Patriots.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll give the Seahawks some uh some uh credit there, but it's probably not true.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just just some close calls.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just what what it's annoying me anymore is anytime a team accomplished something, and this is happening even in the NBA playoffs with that um the Djokovic guy, like everybody's like crapping all over that guy.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, he's a good player.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I I don't understand that, like, why everybody like he's like a really good player and his team won a championship, and the big reason why is him.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: And like all the NBA analysts hate him, and it's like I I get that vibe with like the Steelers sometimes.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's just some people like they wanna just like not even the Steelers, just like team there's people that they don't like a team, so like anytime a team has an accomplishment, they gotta add like an asterisk to it.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that most darn when the Steelers had that almost like that undefeated like run where they went like 12-0 or 11-0.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, Steve, let me ask you something.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_07: Have you ever heard of Twitter?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes, yes, I post on there occasionally for our for our sports website.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_07: That's that's the that's where we are as a society, is we're Twitter, where everything's negative, everything's tear people down, try to get people in trouble or cancel it, or just make fun of them or or or just be negative.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_07: And that's just unfortunate.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's just annoying in sports because like this is somebody's accomplishment.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's somebody's accomplishment.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you gotta put an asterisk next to it?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Just let it be an accomplishment.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you might not like it, but Tom Brady has seven Super Bowl rings and no amount of crying about it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Roger Maris has 61 home runs, no amount of 162, 156 games, you know.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, um, getting back to the NFL, we have a lot of NFL stuff on here.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the NFL refs handed the AFC championship game in 1998 to the Broncos so John Elway could get a Super Bowl.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: So this is like the reverse Jerome Bettis kind of not reverse, but just substitute John Elway instead of Jerome.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because John Elway was kind of the same part of his career as Jerome Bettis at this point.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, there were like John Elway at that point had lost three Super Bowls and was nearing the end of his career.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so the refs did call two pass interference calls late in the half that gave the Broncos a TD in that game right before the half.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um Lway and the Broncos, they go on to beat the Packers, and Lway helicopters his way into NFL and Super Bowl history.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you remember the helicopter slide.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: I just think there's another case of Cordell Stewart was good enough to get to the championship game, but wasn't good enough of to get you past the championship game.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I I don't know.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: They could that was that the no, they didn't have Carnell Lake playing corner that year, did they?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they did?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: I thought so.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so they I mean Carnell Lake was a great safety, probably one of the bet like best Steelers safety.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like if Carnell Lake plays for any other team but the Steelers or like the San Francisco 49ers, like he's probably in somebody's like ring of honor or something.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: But because he played for the Steelers, he's like, oh, that's like our fifth or sixth best corner or safety that ever played for us.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that uh we we need to do a podcast on him, Carnell Lake?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: He he's an overlooked guy that people forget about.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_06: He is.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I just I don't know, and then LeBon Kirkland, who's like one of my favorite players, couldn't stop John Elway and Shannon Sharp on a big third down late in the game that would have because the Steelers were like coming back, and I think it was like 20 to 17, and if they would have stopped them there, they would have had to punt back.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe Cordell throws a Hail Mary again or something.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you never know.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think I give that I did not give this one.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: What what tin foil hat rating should I give this one?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: I forgot to give this one one.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh let's say five?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: You think it's ridiculous?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna give it I'm gonna give it a three, the same as the Seahawks one if our Super Bowl four.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I would have given the Seahawks one a twelve.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_07: Um we're off the charts, man.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_07: Can't even measure it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_07: Those pass interference calls were very tikky-tacky calls.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_07: It was one drive at the end of the first half.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_07: Cordell threw an interception in the end zone in the first half.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_07: He threw an interception in the end zone on the second half.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_07: In the second half.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_07: That's that's two drives where the Steelers could have scored and he throws an interception in the end zone.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_07: That's that's why they lost that game.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_07: They were winning that game.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_07: They were actually up early.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_07: They were up 14-10, I think, when Cordell threw that first interception.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_07: So uh, you know, if if the NFL really wanted to hand it to Elie, there would have been more than one bad call in the second quarter.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_07: So uh sorry.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_07: I just I don't I don't buy one bad or two bad calls in the second quarter on one drive.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_07: You know, is a conspiracy theory?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_07: There were just bad calls.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_07: There's bad calls in a lot of games.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_07: Bad calls are bad calls are bad calls.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, or even close calls.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I but sometimes you gotta over you know, overcome them.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like the Steelers in 2005, the they had to overcome a bad call on a overturned Troy Paul Malu interception.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_07: And and in the third quarter, again, they had the ball like inside the 10-yard line and Cordell through an interception in the end zone.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_07: So they they could have overcome.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the one where Romanowski's like I said to like a Pittsburger, is like yelling at him.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_07: He's like, and he's hitting his head like, how stupid are you?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_07: That was the that was the game where that happened, and that was kind of the beginning of the end of Cordell, unfortunately, that game.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_07: That's a story for another episode.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_07: Actually, that was a story for another episode.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Although Bill Romanowski using horse tranquilizers would be a whole nother story for a whole nother episode.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: And he wasn't competing in a Kentucky Derby, in case you were wondering.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: So um, how about this one?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I always like this one.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um the NHL, the 2005 NHL draft was rigged so the Pittsburgh Penguins could draft Sidney Crosby to save their troubled franchise.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: So shortly after escaping bankruptcy, the Pittsburgh Penguins were still in trouble as a franchise.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: They threatened to move to Kansas City.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: The team then won the 2005 NHL draft lottery for the rights to draft Sidney Crosby.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Shortly afterwards, an agreement was in place to build a new arena.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I I think this one is pretty ridiculous.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the Penguins got lucky, and teams like I don't know, the New York Rangers don't like it, and maybe probably Toronto.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think if Philly fans, if the Flyers fans were smarter, they would have come up with this one, but you know, they weren't smart enough to beat people up, man.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's right.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_07: The this the the again, so I'm gonna go to my logistics argument.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_07: Motivation, yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_07: Well, so I'm sorry, my motivation argument.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, even the logistics, well, they they do say that yeah, New York would have been the much better.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't you rather have the biggest star in the biggest city, the biggest market?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's where I was going with that.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_07: Is mo motive, why why Pittsburgh?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_07: It's like they really wanted to save the penguins that much.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_07: Why would they care about the penguins?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_07: What did that give them?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_07: You could have sent them to New York, you could have sent them to the Kings, you could have sent them to Toronto, like you said.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, there were so many other places that would have been a better get for the league to have him there than Pittsburgh.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_07: So, you know, the I think the this this is I feel like these kinds of conspiracies are born out of the the NBA one from the 80s with Patrick Ewing.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_07: Because when Patrick Ewing was coming out of Georgetown, he was, I mean, at the time he was the biggest basketball star in the world.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_07: And the conspiracy theory there is that David Stern rigged that lottery so the Knicks could get Patrick Ewing.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_07: And then and then when you look at Motive, that at least makes sense.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_07: They wanted Patrick Ewing in the New York market, the biggest market in the country, right?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah and and and the marquee team, the Knicks.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_07: So so whether that's true or not, I don't know.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_07: But at least that there's some you could make an fair argument there.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_07: What again, why why Pittsburgh?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_07: What what are they what did the what did the league get out of you know, Pittsburgh not moving to Kansas City?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't know.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: I not not having not been and I still think the whole Kansas City thing was just a negotiating tactic by Mario to get the city to build.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_07: The Penguins would have stayed.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_07: I think the league knew that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_07: The league would have fought for them to stay anyway.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_07: Like they didn't need Sidney Crosby to stay.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_07: They just didn't.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, this this one, there's there's nothing there.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess the Rangers were one of the other teams, because that was that year, it was coming out of a lockup, so there was no like, you know how like you normally have reverse order by the way.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_07: Every team was eligible.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_07: Literally, every team had a chance.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I think they gave the bottom four a better chance.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_07: It was weighted, but the penguins we we covered this in our lucky breaks up, that the penguins only still only had like a six percent chance or something.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_07: So even though they had a better chance than the rest of the teams, it was still a very small percentage.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_07: And and and coming out of the lockout is even more reason why you'd want to put him in New York.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that way the versus network could have you know had more.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_07: Well, but seriously though, if you wanted if you were coming out of the lockout trying to get fans back and you and you had this great starter build around, you could have put him in in at least five different places that were better than Detroit probably would have even been a better choice.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_07: Montreal, I mean, again, there's Chicago.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_07: You could have just picked a bunch of other places.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so they're they didn't nick parry the uh the lottery balls.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, they did not.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I gave that tin foil hat rating a five.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a rumor started by jealous Rangers fans.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, the it's just because the Flyers fans weren't smart enough to come up with it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Except for their Crosby Sucks chant.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: So um the next one is another Penguins one that should be fun.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the Penguins tank to get Mario Lemieux.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh actually, fun fact, we did a whole podcast on this.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um the Penguins are a very poor to mediocre franchise with low attendance, and they need the superstar to get things going for hockey in Pittsburgh.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: So they lose intentionally.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: So they intentionally lose games to get the number one pick in the draft, some guy named Larry Mario Lemieux.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: And they they had to lose more games than the New Jersey Devils that year, who were also not good.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um basically, I gave this one actually a tinfoil hat rating of one because it is true.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because basically, now Eddie Johnson won't admit it, but Lou Agnoty, the coach of that team, but we I think we kind of decided like maybe he was just a bad hockey coach, maybe he really was trying to throw games to get, you know, Mary Lemieux.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: So what say you, Tim?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think it's definitely true?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think it's absolutely true.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_07: I understand.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_07: Why Eddie Johnson won't fess up.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_07: He can kick out of the league if he's just he just wants to preserve his integrity.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_07: I get that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_07: But honestly, he'd be a bigger hero.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_07: I think he's a bigger hero in Pittsburgh for doing it.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_07: Because he put his job on the line.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_07: Ignati put his job on the line, and they did they did what was right for the franchise.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_07: I think it was absolutely true.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_07: But I get why they're not going to come out and admit it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_07: And and like they were they were the coach in the GM, so they weren't the players.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_07: They couldn't, we talked about that.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_07: They couldn't be on the ice, you know, making a bad pass or being the goalie, like, oops, I let the puck in.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: But what they did send that goalie down who was doing good.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_07: Right, right.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_07: That's what they could do.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_07: They could they could send down the goalie that was doing good, put in the guy that was delivering milk.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_07: Remember all that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_07: So we covered all that in that episode.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_07: Go back and listen.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_07: It's it's a really fascinating story.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_07: I feel like that would make a good Hollywood movie someday.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_07: Uh but yeah, I think that one's for sure true.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's i I mean, Eddie Johnson to his credit will deny it, but we all know what really happened.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we're okay with it.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um moving on.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh here's a good one.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Pitt only got into the ACC because the ACC did not want UConn.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, have you ever heard this one, Tim?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_07: No.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so the Big East is dying, and Syracuse is offered to join the ACC.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the ACC wants to have UConn join to make the conference stronger in basketball, but it's actually the move is blocked by former Big East School and current ACCC school at Boston College.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, I I there's a fair I think there's a fair amount of truth to this.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um Gene Di Filippo, who is the BC athletic director at the time, it publicly admit that the school played a role in denying UConn an invitation from the ACC.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: So it was initially Syracuse and Yukon.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't want them in, D.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Filippo told the Boston Globe.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was a matter of turf.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: We wanted to be the New England team.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, he actually then he said we have a huge television mark in the addition of Pitt and Syracuse gives that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Boston college some Northeast rivals.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, it's an interesting, I mean, the man gets he gets points for honesty at least.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I had trouble finding the Boston Globe article.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: I guess they archive it, or I couldn't find the link to it, but I found it on some Yukon, old Yukon, like um, what do they call it, message boards or you know, you know what I mean, like blogs and stuff.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely there is definitely apparently some truth to this because I mean I gave it a tin foil hat rating of two because it seems like the from quotes from this guy, there's something to it that definitely happened.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I also think it's the old classic of sour grapes from Yukon.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, don't cry for Yukon too much.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: They've won a national championship in basketball more recently than Pitt or Syracuse or Boston College, quite honestly.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: And now in football, they've kind of gone into the wasteland of not being in a power, whatever it is, power three, power five, whatever it is this week, Tim, before they all condense again.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I don't know, Tim, what what what say you?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: Would have would have do you think Pitt only got the ACC because they didn't want uh Yukon?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_07: So so the conspiracy, so because the Boston College guy admitted they didn't want Yukon, but the conspiracy is that the ACC wanted they wanted Yukon.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that they right, and they capitulated to Boston College and selected Pitt instead.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, yeah, I I get why they wouldn't want Yukon for sure.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's in their demographic yeah, it's like in or what what would you call market region market, yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_07: But that doesn't mean the ACC.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_07: The ACC could do whatever they want.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_07: Boston College was a fairly new school to the ACC at that point.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_07: So um yeah, yeah, did Pitt only get in because of that?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_07: I I think it's an interesting theory, and like you said, it definitely holds water because you have Boston College on record saying that they opposed it.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_07: Uh Yukon, remember too, UConn was a football, as a football school was really on the rise at that point.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_07: They had one.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think at that point they had won a BCS, yes.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_07: So they were they they weren't they were a decent football school, and they were, of course, a dominant, historically dominant basketball school.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_07: So I can definitely see the ACC winning them.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_07: Like imagine Yukon playing Duke every year in basketball that in North Carolina, that would have been a great addition to the basketball side.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_07: And and really, in terms of football, I don't it in at the time that it happened, I don't know that Yukon, I don't know that Pitt really added more as a football school than Yukon did, if we're being totally honest.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I think in I think in market, I think Pitt's not splitting the market with Boston College is probably the biggest fairer.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_07: I just meant in terms of like the the how good the program was competitive?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think Yukon was in a pretty weak big east.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: So well, so was Pitt, and Yukon was better, and Yukon was better than them.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: So But this was back when Pitt well no 2005, so I guess once that was still there.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: Was he?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_07: Well it was it was like 2011, 2012, around that time is when they when they made all the time.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that we have gone through like 10 different coaches.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: So so programs.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think it's a legit theory for sure.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just I don't know.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe that Yukon's a bigger draw than Pitt, but hey, what do I know?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a marketing football person.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_07: So well, like you said, it probably doesn't make sense to have somebody that's that close.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_07: It's it's why they um well, it's why West Virginia probably didn't get in.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I don't know Louisville over West Virginia.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I know Louisville has a pretty strong fan base, though.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: And but so does West Virginia, but it's a bigger one.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_07: But I'm but I'm talking about that your point about splitting the market.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it doesn't split the Pittsburgh market per se.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: But a West Virginia fan still isn't gonna turn on the pit, you know, whatever, North Carolina game or whatever.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're not gonna care about that.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I like I said, uh I don't think they have much to cry about.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: They they're pretty good in basketball, but their football team is just kind of languishing in anonymity, unfortunately, for them.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um here's a good one.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Penn State and Joe Paterno wouldn't play Pitt because of revenge for not joining conference a conference with them.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually was able to find a UPI article from 1981.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, look at me, Tim.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: I put on my little like, you know, reporter's hat and was like, hey, Sonny, get me the article from 1981.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um so as uh Pitt and Penn State are in talks to make an all-eastern concert conference.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: Pitt has been very active in making things happen.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Peterno told a group of reporters last month at a state college hotel they are excited about the possibility of an Eastern conference.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Pitt attended every meeting, said Casal, the athletic director at Temple.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: We thought they were gung-ho for a full conference concept.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: But all the time and planning went out the window Wednesday when the Pitt administration, in all their wisdom, and I added that, announced the university would join the Big East for the three years beginning with the 1982, 83.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that killed the Eastern League before it could get off the ground.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: The defection of Pitt, which is nationally known football groom, this is 1981, Tim.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we were nationally known back then, and big city exposure would have put a viability of all a new all sports conference on the critical list.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: So they were under uh when we knew the big east was courting them, uh this guy said, but we under the impression that Pitt had turned them down.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um also Dave Winstad had said he had talked to um Joe Paterno.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um Paterno had no interest in reviving the Pitpen State rivalry, even though once that telephoned them about it when both were still coaching.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Dave, tell Jeff Long, I have no problem with Jeff, but here's the deal.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: As long as I'm here, it's just not going to work out.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: Juans that said, recalling his conversation with Paterno.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Why and how, I really don't know, once that said, and didn't ask and didn't really didn't care.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta love Dave.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um I gave this a tin foil hat rating of two.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably I think it's true more than false.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't give it a full one because it's still kind of murky out there, who did what and to whom.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: Probably probably is a revenge move by Paterno for not going along with him in the conference in the early 1980s.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it maybe was best for Pitt considering all the baggage Penn State has now.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: And once again, we're just talking about how like they were um splitting, splitting the market.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: If Pitt and Penn State would have tried to, you know, join like the Big Ten eventually, let's say all those, you know, eventually they would have had to try to join the Big Ten or something, right?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you look in your crystal ball, but talk about a what if episode, huh?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: Did we do that as one of our I don't know.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think we did do that as one of our what ifs.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and like you know, they they would have they would have had trouble.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the reasons Pitt has never been invited to the Big Ten, is because they once again the Yukon thing, like, why does Penn State want to split its territory with Pitt?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and it was interesting, that was Pitt that blew up that Eastern Conference.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_07: I I think that there's a lot of truth to that.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_07: Peterno, Penn State's always been uh arrogant and petty.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_07: That's two things you can always say about the about the Penn State football program.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_07: And uh that fits both of those categories.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_07: It does.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_07: And and you know, when they killed the ri when the rivalry was killed, it at one point Paterno said, I I remember correctly, he would only do it if Pitt played there ever two out of every three years.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: Something like that.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a two to one or three to one or something stupid.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and not just reeks of um, I'm still mad at you for something happened in 1981.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: He made a bad that's called a bad faith offer.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: You you make an offer that you know not the other party won't ever accept.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_07: But but the way that they all the way Penn State always talked about it for years was just, you know, oh, you know, we we just we have we play who we play, and and you know, uh they just pretended like there was no history, there was no desire for it, it was just another school, right?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_07: And it was just super arrogant.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_07: I always hated that mentality.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_07: Tim Curley, who was their athletic director, who ended up going to prison because of said arrogance, uh, you know, he he used to do that all the time.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, well, yeah, but Pittsburgh, sure, whatever.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_07: I don't really what's where's that at again?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, that was their attitude.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_07: And and I think I think it it probably was.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_07: I if I think Peterno was offended, and and maybe Pitt made the wrong call there.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_07: But I think that that was all based in arrogance and teddy.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think Pitt made the short-sighted call.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like they saw money on the table, and like, well, this gets our basketball team into a conference, and our football team will be just fine.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and and again, and they did not see they did not see like Paterno correctly assessed that everything was going to go to major conferences for the next 20 to 30 years.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: Pitt was just like, hey, look at us, we got a winning football team for the first time in 40 years.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yay!
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, Pitt was such a big draw at the time, they never could have foreseen.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_07: So you you yeah, if if I guess um I guess it's a fair point.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_07: If Paterno was upset about it, he probably had a right to be upset about it.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_07: Right?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_07: So I'll give him that.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_07: I think you know that that that part makes sense.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_07: But to to kill a rivalry that so many people in this area grew up on and loved because you're you're bitter about something, that's just you know, anyway.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_07: I I have a lot of negative things to say about Penn State football, so I'm just gonna stop.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean, whatever.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna are they playing each other this year?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh well.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Lincoln Riley stole Jordan Addison from Pitt with lots of money from USC.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the uh the was this there was a Supreme Court ruling that said that you could uh you couldn't like make players not play for free, that college scholarships weren't compensation per se.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was if you if a person wanted to sell their likeness and image, they could.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: And you couldn't use their likeness and image without you know uh compensating them.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds fair to me since we outlawed indentured servitude and slavery a long time ago.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's the NLI deal age, and Jordan Addison transfers the USC under allegations of pampering um on a totally so Lincoln Riley says, Oh, there's nothing, no money to do with it, nothing at all, and it's just totally above the board.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: And there's actually like a period, it's like NFL free agency where there's like a period of time where you're like allowed to talk to players, but I don't think this is why I think USC totally didn't follow that.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um, on a totally unrelated note, later that season, um, can you believe it?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Jordan Addison signed an NLI deal with United Airlines, who is a sponsor of the USC football team.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: What a lucky break for him, Tim.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: I bet he would have gotten that same deal if he would have stayed at Pitt, huh?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: So uh Tinfoy hat rating.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: I gave that a one.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: This happened.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's no way.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care what Lincoln Riley said, he did it.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: He he paid him to leave.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, good for Jordan Addison.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: He got paid, but hey, you know what?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: What when did he what draft pick did he was he in the second round or third round?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_07: No.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_07: Well, was it a first round still?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, Minnesota drafted him in the first round.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_07: So he he did he did okay for himself.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_07: I I yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_07: I think this NAL NIL thing it will hopefully settle down at some point or they'll figure out how to maneuver it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_07: Right now it's very wild west, and and I feel like you're gonna just have stuff like that all the time where you can just allure people away with with uh you know prizes, big prizes.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_07: And and so it is what it is.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it wasn't the money that I think Narduzzy was upset about, it was the tampering with like basically recruiting a player while he's still playing for another team.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that and Narduzzi has a point.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we developed this guy.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you get to just come in and treat us like a triple A baseball team and raid our roster?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_07: Right, right.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it has a point.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean, it w it was it was nonsense.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_07: At the same time, if you're Jordan Addison, you know, Kenny Pickett had graduated.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_07: Did you really want to stick around for another year to have Keaton Slovis throw you the ball and and you know potentially hurt your your draft positioning, or did you want to go to a bigger marquee school like USC?
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: So even without Lincoln, he didn't really have that good of a year at USC either, quite honestly.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_07: He he did okay, right?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_07: He he definitely wasn't as good as he was with Pickett, but at the same time, would he have been better at Pitt?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_07: I'm not sure about that either.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you know, we didn't Pitt Pitt was Pitt had a little bit of a drop-off with their offense, especially in the passing game, because again, they their best quarterback in the last 40 years had gone to the NFL.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_07: So uh I I don't necessarily fault Addison for making that decision.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_07: I just I wish there was less of the stuff you talked about, and I believe that that absolutely does happen and did happen in this case.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: I just you know, I like you said, there needs to be, okay, you can negotiate with players, but only during a set time.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like you it just doesn't seem right to be tampering with a person that's in the middle of a season or I mean I know bowl games meaningless, but I mean I guess, you know, if they're playing in one of those four meaningful bowl games, that would be really bad.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, like you said, hopefully I think I saw the NCAA came down with some more rulings on the NIL that they have to follow the rules set up by like certain state, whatever your state has or something.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll see what happens.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how about this one?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: Pen Kenny Pickett was offered by Notre Dame to transfer after a disappointing 2021 season.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: What was his like first senior season?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Was it 2020, 2020?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_07: It would have been 2020.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 2020.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: Notre Dame and used car salesman Brian Kelly try to tamper.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean recruit Kenny Pickett to Notre Dame.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, I just found this out.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'll throw it out there.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: He said, speaking with Roddy Jones, I guess people reached out to Kenny Pickett to go to Notre Dame a year ago.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't say anything to me, which obviously it didn't get that serious, but Notre Dame recruited him through back channels.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: And the back channels were, you know, Brian Kelly's burner phone.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: I guarantee it.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: So um, oh, it's and then he goes on to the it's not former Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly, but someone's telling these guys, whoever they are, to come to Notre Dame, right?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was definitely Brian Kelly.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's no way it wasn't Brian Kelly, it is Brian Kelly.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's a move that he would make.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: So uh, you know.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh tin foil hat rating.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: I gave this a one.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: It definitely happened.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, now that Brian Kelly's at LSU, I'm sure he's expected to do this kind of things.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure he's going and recruiting all the Alabama quarterbacks with all that sweet LSU money.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: So good good luck with uh Brian Kelly and his quest.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: And uh good for Kenny Pickett for staying at Pitt.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: He really is a Pitt legend and uh a very loyal person to Pittsburgh in general.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm glad the Steelers have him, and he's probably one of the favorites to come out of Pitt in a long time.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: What say you, Tim?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_07: I I um I'm sure it's there there's probably a lot of truth to it.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_07: I I give a big who cares.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_07: I heard rumor that you're a secret Notre Dame fan.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_07: I I I don't I you know I'm I'm fairly neutral on Notre Dame.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_07: I don't a lot of people hate Notre Dame.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: I I kinda like Notre Dame, but I I I I remind you, sir, you're under oath.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just kidding.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, so I mean, so they won they tried to get him and he didn't go like okay.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_07: Uh you know what I mean?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_07: Like in good.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're not you're not uh getting all offended.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean just because I'm not a big Notre Dame fan.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_07: Well, and Brian Kelly's annoying, so I I get that too.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it just is.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_07: So I get why people And I don't understand.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, why but Pat Narduzie like is like, oh yeah, it's not Brian Kelly.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well Pat Martin Pat Narduzzi is annoying too.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_07: So and I love Pat Narcilly.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he's he's our he you know what?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: He's Batman, he's not the hero we need, he's the hero we deserve, or whatever.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's not the coach we need, he's the coach we deserve.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's who we got.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going with it.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_03: On that note, we're the podcast you uh deserve and not you need, I guess.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: So uh or is it the other way around?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, thank you for tuning in.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: Check us out on our website and on Twitter.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: And word of mouth's great too.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, thanks for listening through all these episodes.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, how many episodes are we up to, Tim?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_07: We gotta be this was episode number 92, too.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, we'll have to do something big for the hundred.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks a lot for tuning in, and uh, we'll catch you next time on Pittsburgh Sports Memory.