Latest / Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture / Christian Business Without Compartmentalization (Andrea Anderson)

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Christian Business Without Compartmentalization (Andrea Anderson) · Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture

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Speaker 1: The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that
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Speaker 1: deny God. As such, we need Thinking Christian to become
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Speaker 1: as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast.
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Speaker 1: I'm doctor James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking
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Speaker 1: Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world
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Speaker 1: and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that
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Speaker 1: hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now on to
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Speaker 1: today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everyone, welcome to this
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Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Christian. I'm doctor James Spencer and I'm
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Speaker 1: joined today by Andrea Anderson, who is a Christian business
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Speaker 1: coach and author. She's written a couple of different books.
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Speaker 1: I think you have one coming out here in twenty
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Speaker 1: twenty six as well, but the one I had the
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Speaker 1: pleasure of reading today was Breadlke Rain and So I'm
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Speaker 1: excited to welcome Andrea to the show and interested in
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Speaker 1: our conversation. So welcome Andrea. Thanks for being on the show.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me on.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely So, I I've done a fair amount of consulting myself,
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Speaker 1: so I'm kind of interested in your background and how
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Speaker 1: you got into consulting, what really drove you there and
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Speaker 1: maybe what your passions are. So why don't you introduce
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Speaker 1: yourself a little bit to the audience and give a
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Speaker 1: bit of your background.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, So one of the things I like to
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Speaker 3: start with, especially when I'm talking to a Christian audience,
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Speaker 3: is that I was not always Christian.
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Speaker 2: In fact, I grew up.
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Speaker 3: In what I call a cultural Christian home, and then
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Speaker 3: I went through a period of being atheist agnostic, kind
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Speaker 3: of bounced between the two in my early teens to
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Speaker 3: kind of mid twenties, and so it was out of
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Speaker 3: that actually, through the death of my grandfather that got
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Speaker 3: me to reconsider. So I like to share it because
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Speaker 3: I think it's really easy to make assumptions, especially when
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Speaker 3: you're talking to someone in a format like this, like assuming, oh,
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Speaker 3: like she's always known the look, and that's so far
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Speaker 3: from the truth. So that's a little bit on the
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Speaker 3: personal side. On the business side, the consulting, really, where
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Speaker 3: I came into it was out of a time of
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Speaker 3: prayer where I was asking the Lord, how do I
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Speaker 3: actually help people on a transformative level. This came out
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Speaker 3: of a different business that I had at the time,
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Speaker 3: where I was sensing there was more going on for
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Speaker 3: the people that I was encountering than in this case
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Speaker 3: it was an organizing business. Then it was just like, oh,
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Speaker 3: I don't know how to organize my stuff, and the
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Speaker 3: idea of going into a space organizing it but going
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Speaker 3: back to chaos wasn't sitting well with me. So I
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Speaker 3: again I was asking the Lord, how do I help
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Speaker 3: people on a transformative level, And for the first time
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Speaker 3: ever in my faith walk, I heard almost audibly life coach.
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Speaker 3: You know, I was spoken into my spirit. And this
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Speaker 3: was in the early two thousands, like coaching was virtually
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Speaker 3: unheard of. I'm like, what is a life coach?
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Speaker 2: And I'm like, am I making this up?
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Speaker 3: And so I was like, okay, Lord, if this is you,
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Speaker 3: not me, I'll google it and it'll be a thing,
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Speaker 3: which it was. So that's where I got my certification.
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Speaker 3: I'll skip over a lot of the middle parts of
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Speaker 3: my story, but really the while I am here to
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Speaker 3: work with Christian business owners and help them apply a
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Speaker 3: surrendered strategy method to their business to maximize their profitability
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Speaker 3: make it sustainable. Really, what my work represents is the
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Speaker 3: deeper level transformation that God wants to do in them
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Speaker 3: and also through them, because that's what lasts into eternity.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting. So you were in the organization business,
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Speaker 1: if I'm understanding correctly, you were doing more like, you know,
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Speaker 1: helping people clean up the mess of their lives in
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Speaker 1: physical spaces. Yeah, and then and then kind of pivoted
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Speaker 1: over into more of a symbolic organizing lives, you know,
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Speaker 1: symbolic theological organizing lives.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: That's really cool.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fun to see how God works.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit more about your
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Speaker 1: you know, sort of non Christian background. I grew up.
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Speaker 1: It sounds like we have a lot in common because
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Speaker 1: I grew up Lutheran. I should say I grew up
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Speaker 1: attending a Lutheran church, but really just not caring one
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Speaker 1: way or the other, you know, about being a Lutheran
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Speaker 1: or particularly about being Christian. Didn't have any sort of
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Speaker 1: interest in Jesus per Se was really I just saw,
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Speaker 1: you know, what I was learning at church is a
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Speaker 1: good way to stay out of trouble, and so I'm
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Speaker 1: interested to just dive a little bit more into that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: So I'm originally from Canada and before we moved to
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Speaker 3: the States, which is where I live now. We went
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Speaker 3: to an Anglican church, so I equivalent like Anglican episcopals,
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Speaker 3: like the parallel to that in the States and Lutheran
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Speaker 3: and a methodis is like kind of like the OG
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Speaker 3: like the OG churches from on the Protestant side, and
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Speaker 3: so yeat. Likewise, we went to church. My parents were
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Speaker 3: heavily involved. We loved the church that we went to.
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Speaker 3: It was very family oriented. So I have fond memories
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Speaker 3: of like going to Sunday School, being involved in the
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Speaker 3: things the church would put on for families, helping in
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Speaker 3: Sunday School as I got older. But yeah, that idea
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Speaker 3: of a relationship with Jesus in any in my nuclear family,
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Speaker 3: like that idea was if somebody had asked us that
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Speaker 3: we'd been like, what do you mean, Like, we go
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Speaker 3: to church, we do the things, like what are you
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Speaker 3: talking about a relationship. And so when we moved to
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Speaker 3: the States, my mom especially wanted to try and find
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Speaker 3: another church because it's just like this is what we do,
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Speaker 3: you know, And we did land on one in an
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Speaker 3: Episcopal church, but it wasn't it wasn't vibrant on many levels.
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Speaker 3: And again, when you especially when you don't have a
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Speaker 3: relationship with the Lord. I see picking churches and I
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Speaker 3: talk to put.
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Speaker 2: This in the book. It's like it's like a restaurant.
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Speaker 2: It's like where are we going to eat today? You know.
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Speaker 3: So at some point, like my dad was, I could
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Speaker 3: tell and I was in my early teens, I could
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Speaker 3: tell that he wasn't really interested, and at some point
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Speaker 3: I think he was just like I don't want to go.
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Speaker 3: So I was like, well, Dad's not going, I'm not going. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And then what really kicked me into that atheism agnostic
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Speaker 3: period was I was in I think seventh grade and
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Speaker 3: we were learning about evolution, and for whatever reason, I
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Speaker 3: don't know why, my conclusion was, well, that explains the
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Speaker 3: way the need for God. So I was kind of like,
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Speaker 3: you know, washed my hands of him and I'm like
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Speaker 3: going on my married way and unbelief. But that that's
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Speaker 3: kind of what the early stage.
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Speaker 1: Like very good. Yeah, And so you came to faith
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Speaker 1: and got into really life coaching. Were you are a
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Speaker 1: Christian at that point? Correct or no? Yes, kind of
7:05
Speaker 1: clarify the timeline, Yeah, I.
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Speaker 2: Know, that's that's good clarification. Yes, Like I.
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Speaker 3: So I don't have an exact date of belief. I
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Speaker 3: know it was somewhere around shoot thousand and like three
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Speaker 3: two thousand and five, So yeah, somewhere around there, like
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Speaker 3: around twenty years ago. But just because I God was
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Speaker 3: so my grandfather died in the time that I was
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Speaker 3: dating my husband, and when we got engaged and were
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Speaker 3: playing for a marriage, like by that point my heart
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Speaker 3: had softened, softened enough where it's like, oh, I want.
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Speaker 2: A minister to marry us. But I know I wasn't
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Speaker 2: a believer at that point.
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Speaker 3: It was just the Lord was bringing me along because
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Speaker 3: my grandfather died, my husband and I were dating, got
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Speaker 3: engaged and all that. So, and then when I became
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Speaker 3: pregnant with our first child we have four, I know
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Speaker 3: at some point there was some sort of belief that
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Speaker 3: was happening. I just don't have that exact day. When
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Speaker 3: I moved from you know, curious like I think there's
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Speaker 3: something there to Oh, yes, I need to accept christ.
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Speaker 1: Very cool. Well, talk to me a little bit about
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Speaker 1: so you're you're now into Christian business coaching, and one
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Speaker 1: of the things you said just a minute ago was
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Speaker 1: you were tired of organized, helping people organize and then
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Speaker 1: seeing things fall back into chaos. And I will say
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Speaker 1: sadly that sometimes my experience consulting was just that, you know,
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Speaker 1: it was like whenever I had institutions keep calling me
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Speaker 1: back and calling me back, I'm going but I could
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Speaker 1: have sworn we had this fixed the last time, like
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Speaker 1: what happened? So how do you deal with that ongoing? Now?
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Speaker 1: Is that a shift in your consulting practice that you
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Speaker 1: found that that that you get a little bit more
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Speaker 1: of a during or i'm sorry, a durable result out
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Speaker 1: of what you're doing now?
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Speaker 3: Yes, And I love that you ask that question because
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Speaker 3: this is something that the Lord has been bringing into
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Speaker 3: greater clarity about, like one what I need to look
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Speaker 3: out for in my own business, but also really look
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Speaker 3: out for in clients.
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Speaker 2: And one of.
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Speaker 3: The themes that he's highlighted is how self reliance and control
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Speaker 3: that's what creates like the chaos the disarray. Because I've
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Speaker 3: noticed that when you are called to lead in some ways,
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Speaker 3: so in this case a business, you you're a lot
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Speaker 3: of your default and what your inherent characteristics are to
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Speaker 3: get things done, Like you typically have a high capacity,
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Speaker 3: you're very comfortable doing, achieving, making decisions, and you need
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Speaker 3: that as a leader. Otherwise you're not going to be leading,
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Speaker 3: You'll want to follow you.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: So, but because we live in a fallen world, you know,
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Speaker 3: there's always like kind of like a shadow aspect some
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Speaker 3: of our gifts where gets distorted. And so what happens
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Speaker 3: is when we have these natural inherent characteristics that on
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Speaker 3: the one side are helpful and needed at some point
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Speaker 3: there they actually work against us because we overstep the boundaries.
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Speaker 2: And what I've.
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Speaker 3: Noticed for myself as well as in clients is like
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Speaker 3: we often like get in the weeds and we're trying
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Speaker 3: to approach, especially when it's a business and a vision
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Speaker 3: the Lord has given you. We're trying to solve the
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Speaker 3: issues like at the ground level instead of pulling our
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Speaker 3: eyes up and like building and moving from like a
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Speaker 3: top down aspect. And so I know the reason that
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Speaker 3: my clients get lasting results and I don't see that
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Speaker 3: repeating pattern of chaos is because I'm constantly asking them
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Speaker 3: what is the Lord saying. I'm constantly pointing their eyes
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Speaker 3: to him and asking them to get clear and to
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Speaker 3: get confirmation of like what what is the blueprint? What
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Speaker 3: is he asking you to do? And then we move
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Speaker 3: from there, I mean and there's a lot of pieces
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Speaker 3: to it. I'm also listening for where are they out
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Speaker 3: of sync with God? Where's that misalignment coming in? Why
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Speaker 3: is it there? And then we have to pull that out.
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Speaker 3: So it's like shifting patterns, like removing disruptive patterns. And
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Speaker 3: because we have the Lord like he we're building for
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Speaker 3: essentially a turn eternal results, right, So we're looking at
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Speaker 3: what is the deeper transformation and foundational work the Lord
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Speaker 3: wants to do and in him as long as your
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Speaker 3: heart is I want what you want, Lord, which is
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Speaker 3: why my clients come to me. That's what they want.
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Speaker 3: That's why it's it lasts. It's also why when I'm
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Speaker 3: working with clients in one on one and intense why
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Speaker 3: I only work with Christians because I can work on
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Speaker 3: surface level business issues with non believers. But when you're
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Speaker 3: talking talking about transformation and lasting results that only comes
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Speaker 3: through Jesus.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. So I teach on leadership for Wheaton
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Speaker 1: College and one of the things that I talk about
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Speaker 1: in class is that leadership should emerge from discipleship. And
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Speaker 1: it just strikes me that we have some resonance on
12:21
Speaker 1: that is that you know you're as a leader. You're
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Speaker 1: not just deciding that you are going to follow Jesus
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Speaker 1: until it's inconvenient to do so, and then you're going
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Speaker 1: to implement a business strategy whether he likes it or not.
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Speaker 1: You're trying to actually follow him even in your business practices.
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Speaker 1: Not simply from an ethical standpoint, although I think that's
12:43
Speaker 1: important too, but from a directional and transformational perspective, yes, exactly.
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Speaker 3: So.
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Speaker 1: Do you work primarily then one on one kind of
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Speaker 1: with leaders?
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Speaker 3: That is, That's how I do love to work with
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Speaker 3: clients because well, and I'm sure you've experienced this too,
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Speaker 3: when you work one on one, when you have somebody's
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Speaker 3: attention all on you, like, you just get to you know,
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Speaker 3: get you get that momentum, you get to the root
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Speaker 3: and also the clarity a lot faster. I do also
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Speaker 3: have a group component as well.
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Speaker 2: For people.
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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's for one on one clients who are ready
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Speaker 3: to transition from kind of more of that intense work,
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Speaker 3: but they like that continued focus. And then sometimes it's
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Speaker 3: people will come to me through group and then move into.
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Speaker 2: One on one with me.
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Speaker 3: But yeah, the one on one and also because again
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Speaker 3: I'm listening for where there's misalignment. And I can do
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Speaker 3: that in a group setting to a certain extent, but
13:46
Speaker 3: really it gets to a point where I'm like, I
13:48
Speaker 3: really just need to be in the room one on
13:51
Speaker 3: one with them.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's interesting. I you know, as you're talking
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Speaker 1: about it, I do mostly organizational stuff when I do it,
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Speaker 1: so it does tend to Yes, the leader needs to
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Speaker 1: sort of be guiding and directing and figuring out where
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Speaker 1: they want to go. And when I've had those opportunities
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Speaker 1: to sort of help leaders, I do see better results.
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Speaker 1: I see more durable results. When I'm just working with
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Speaker 1: an organization and kind of implementing or trying to optimize
14:21
Speaker 1: one area, you don't see it as durable. Things tend
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Speaker 1: to slip. And I think it's partially because you're not
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Speaker 1: really you know, you're aligning a system, but then all
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Speaker 1: the people who are involved in that system really have
14:36
Speaker 1: to be on the same page. You're assuming a lot,
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Speaker 1: I guess, is what I'm saying when you're working on
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Speaker 1: that system's approach and you're not really addressing the people
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Speaker 1: side of it as much.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And in that kind of setting, I mean, you
14:48
Speaker 3: have a lot of different personalities and strengths and yeah,
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Speaker 3: it's like have they bought into it? How do they
14:56
Speaker 3: really feel I'm sure from an organizational level, like are
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Speaker 3: they being compared held versus like when you're working one.
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Speaker 2: On one with the leader, you assume like they want
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Speaker 2: to be there.
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Speaker 3: You know, they're not being in most cases like being
15:08
Speaker 3: for I guess it could be a they're not like
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Speaker 3: the CEO. I guess they could be told to do this,
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Speaker 3: But most of the time it's like, Okay, I'm going
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Speaker 3: with you. But yeah, yeah, that's also why I believe
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Speaker 3: too with that, I mean, there definitely are effective ways
15:25
Speaker 3: to do groups, and I have seen in the way
15:27
Speaker 3: that I do group sessions that clients do get the
15:31
Speaker 3: results that they want because again I'm putting it the
15:33
Speaker 3: court more in the Lord's hands, like helping them to
15:37
Speaker 3: look at him.
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Speaker 2: But I think a lot.
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Speaker 3: Of times in groups, in group settings, yeah, it's yeah,
15:46
Speaker 3: it just caps what you're able to do without some
15:49
Speaker 3: like one on one On the side.
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Speaker 1: I tend to agree. Interesting, Yeah, I mean I wonder
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Speaker 1: so as you've as you done the consulting with business leaders,
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Speaker 1: how much of this do you find really carries over
16:04
Speaker 1: into the church. It's it's difficult for me sometimes to
16:08
Speaker 1: to walk into a church and not notice things that,
16:13
Speaker 1: you know, when I've gotten you know, if I've just
16:16
Speaker 1: especially if I've just gotten done with the consulting engagement,
16:18
Speaker 1: I sort of have that mindset and I walk in
16:20
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, geez, we could fix that. How
16:23
Speaker 1: do you How do you think about that? When you're
16:26
Speaker 1: you know, sitting in church with a pastor and with
16:28
Speaker 1: other you know, leaders, do you see them sort of
16:34
Speaker 1: you find yourself wishing you could you could help them
16:36
Speaker 1: as well?
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Speaker 3: Yes, Like, thankfully I'm at a church where I feel
16:43
Speaker 3: like the leadership is as solid as leadership can be,
16:46
Speaker 3: you know, not like not we're not going to find perfection.
16:49
Speaker 2: Right, but.
16:52
Speaker 3: So I appreciate that. I appreciate the heart and intent
16:54
Speaker 3: at least the leaders at our church approach approach things.
16:59
Speaker 3: I think what I see happening is more in that
17:04
Speaker 3: area of the like what we do from Sunday's service,
17:10
Speaker 3: like the discipleship, the application, because like as I listen
17:14
Speaker 3: to the messages of the sermon, and especially lately it's
17:18
Speaker 3: been interesting, it's like what our pastor has been sharing,
17:21
Speaker 3: I'm like, yep, like these are the insights that he
17:23
Speaker 3: has been showing me and like where where the gaps are,
17:27
Speaker 3: where the challenges are. But then what I think, and
17:29
Speaker 3: especially given the work with clients, I'm like, okay, but
17:33
Speaker 3: how many people that are sitting here are actually applying it?
17:38
Speaker 3: And because that's what happens when I have clients coming
17:41
Speaker 3: to me, It's like there's this kind of I know,
17:43
Speaker 3: God needs to be part of it, but what does
17:45
Speaker 3: that actually look like? Like people still think a little
17:48
Speaker 3: bit more like the God box, like the work box,
17:51
Speaker 3: the family, So it's more that and also appreciating that
17:57
Speaker 3: the leadership of our churches only have so much capacit
18:00
Speaker 3: as well.
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Speaker 2: So so yeah, just more along those lines.
18:07
Speaker 3: But I will say when I when I more like
18:10
Speaker 3: anecdotally hear about challenges in other churches where it's a
18:14
Speaker 3: leadership issue, like that's where I'm like, oh that, like
18:19
Speaker 3: I would love to help correct that, but that's not
18:22
Speaker 3: my calling at this moment.
18:23
Speaker 2: It is businesses.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I appreciate that. I just kind of wanted
18:27
Speaker 1: to hear you talk through some of that. Let me
18:31
Speaker 1: let me pivot a little bit and maybe talk about
18:35
Speaker 1: some of the ideas I was reading about your website.
18:37
Speaker 1: I read about in your book. I'm interested just to
18:40
Speaker 1: hear a little bit about how you navigate the the
18:44
Speaker 1: ideas of following God and success in today's world. That's
18:49
Speaker 1: one of those topics that I've always had a little
18:51
Speaker 1: bit of trouble with, you know, trying to figure out like, yes,
18:55
Speaker 1: following the Lord is what we're supposed to do, but
18:58
Speaker 1: it doesn't always lead to the sort of success that
19:01
Speaker 1: we're looking for as far as I can tell. And
19:03
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if you can talk through that a
19:05
Speaker 1: little bit and kind of help me understand your perspective
19:07
Speaker 1: on it.
19:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's interesting because that's actually what before this
19:11
Speaker 3: podcast says, like, Okay, Lord, what are we going to
19:13
Speaker 3: be talking about?
19:13
Speaker 2: What do you want to share?
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Speaker 3: And the problem is how we define success, right because
19:22
Speaker 3: and I think when I was when I had reached
19:24
Speaker 3: out to you, and it's like, would you be interested
19:27
Speaker 3: in having this conversation what the Lord has shown me?
19:30
Speaker 3: And where that where the problems come in, is where
19:33
Speaker 3: we confuse what we know with what we actually believe. Right.
19:38
Speaker 3: So we know, for example, God is trustworthy, but in
19:43
Speaker 3: certain situations do we believe he's actually trustworthy?
19:46
Speaker 2: No?
19:47
Speaker 3: That is where all of the problems come in. And
19:49
Speaker 3: so when it comes to success, we have to be
19:56
Speaker 3: very careful about how we are individually defining it because
20:02
Speaker 3: and the way the application that I see for business,
20:05
Speaker 3: for example, is I do believe if God has called
20:08
Speaker 3: you to business, it is meant to be financially successful,
20:12
Speaker 3: because that's actually the definition of a business. Like if
20:16
Speaker 3: you don't have a bit, if you don't have a
20:18
Speaker 3: financial success, like you have an expensive hobby or a
20:21
Speaker 3: liability or a self funded nonprofit. Right Like, to me,
20:29
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense that God would call you to
20:31
Speaker 3: a model that literally means you are building for profitability.
20:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we also.
20:39
Speaker 3: Have to keep in mind profitability is one aspect of success,
20:46
Speaker 3: it's also how we are building in the process. And
20:51
Speaker 3: I really believe that God is more interested and cares
20:55
Speaker 3: more about our internal and eternal success then ultimately what's
21:01
Speaker 3: happening on the outside.
21:02
Speaker 2: Right. So, I mean I've seen for.
21:06
Speaker 3: Myself that certainly marriage and motherhood has definitely refined me,
21:12
Speaker 3: but being called to entrepreneurship or really whatever you're called to,
21:16
Speaker 3: He is going to refine you through it because we
21:20
Speaker 3: need to be purified, right, And so it is a
21:24
Speaker 3: trust walk. It's a faith walk. And what I've realized, yeah,
21:30
Speaker 3: through challenges and through like really hard moments, is that one,
21:35
Speaker 3: if I have a financially successful business but my health
21:38
Speaker 3: and my relationships are compromised, well, is God really going
21:41
Speaker 3: to be like yay you No, it's going to be
21:44
Speaker 3: like that's a problem, right, Or or if you are
21:50
Speaker 3: not building according to how he is asking you, if
21:53
Speaker 3: you're saying I don't believe you God like that you've
21:57
Speaker 3: called me to this, or I'm deciding I'm calling all
21:59
Speaker 3: the shots and it's actually he's like, okay, but I'm
22:03
Speaker 3: going to cap your profitability even if you're like succeeding
22:07
Speaker 3: in other areas of life. Again, it's like it's inconsistent.
22:10
Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess what I come back to is
22:14
Speaker 3: if we're sincere in saying your will not mine, that
22:17
Speaker 3: also means his definition of success, his timeline of success,
22:23
Speaker 3: and like all of the pieces. Yeah, yeah, in that part, if.
22:30
Speaker 1: I go back, you know, you mentioned you know some
22:32
Speaker 1: people still think about the god box, the business box,
22:34
Speaker 1: the family boxing, and we have these sort of this
22:36
Speaker 1: way of compartmentalizing, right, and it isn't you know, it's
22:42
Speaker 1: unlike you know, jumping into the water, right, it's impossible
22:46
Speaker 1: not to get wet when you immerse yourself in water,
22:48
Speaker 1: if you're just wet. But when we box things up,
22:51
Speaker 1: we can tend to just sort of let God leak
22:53
Speaker 1: into these other areas when we when we feel like
22:56
Speaker 1: it's necessary. Right, I'll be good enough at family, good
23:00
Speaker 1: enough at business, you know, I'll be a nice ethical person.
23:03
Speaker 1: But yeah, as far as letting Christ lead this, like,
23:07
Speaker 1: I don't know, what does he really know about the
23:09
Speaker 1: financial services industry or you know, whatever have you. And
23:13
Speaker 1: so there there's an interesting like just going back to
23:16
Speaker 1: that idea kind of what I what I think I
23:18
Speaker 1: hear you saying, is that if we're to give ourselves
23:21
Speaker 1: to God with all we are and have right sort
23:25
Speaker 1: of that Deuteronomy six four and five Christ, you know,
23:29
Speaker 1: mind soul strength. He repeats that in the New Testament,
23:34
Speaker 1: we're really looking at it as there is a capacity
23:38
Speaker 1: that each one of us has to do that, and
23:42
Speaker 1: there's a there's a sense in which, yes, I can
23:45
Speaker 1: give all I have, but I really can't get more.
23:49
Speaker 1: And and if I if I'm giving part of myself
23:52
Speaker 1: away to business and ruining my health, ruining my relationships,
23:58
Speaker 1: ruining my I'm not really loving God with all I
24:01
Speaker 1: am and have. I'm really loving business and trying to
24:05
Speaker 1: tie God in, and so that success comes as we
24:09
Speaker 1: figure out how to order those loves appropriately. Is that
24:14
Speaker 1: a fair sort of way to riff on that, I
24:17
Speaker 1: guess yeah.
24:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's always like first things first, right, God first,
24:22
Speaker 3: and we know he does want to be in all
24:24
Speaker 3: areas of our life, like it isn't just it isn't
24:28
Speaker 3: just partial or when we decide or you know, we're
24:34
Speaker 3: like how you.
24:35
Speaker 2: Know, it's like all the things and yes and like
24:38
Speaker 2: from there.
24:39
Speaker 3: So if he's if he's called you to marriage, then
24:42
Speaker 3: it's also you know, God marriage, kids.
24:45
Speaker 2: Like all of that. But yeah, it's it's a balance and.
24:52
Speaker 3: It's also highly personal. I think that's also why I
24:54
Speaker 3: like one on one work because God, God doesn't like,
25:00
Speaker 3: he doesn't work in cookie He doesn't create cookie cutters.
25:03
Speaker 3: So while there's principles that apply to all of us,
25:07
Speaker 3: like the nuances of that are going to look different.
25:12
Speaker 3: And yeah, so that anyway, it's just like a fascinating journey.
25:18
Speaker 1: No, I agree, And I mean I think just if
25:20
Speaker 1: I think back over my career, just through time, I
25:23
Speaker 1: think I would react and respond. And if I went
25:27
Speaker 1: back into my old position that I left when I
25:31
Speaker 1: was really burnt out, when I had decided that, you know,
25:35
Speaker 1: work was more important than family, and you know, work
25:38
Speaker 1: was more important than health, like I was that guy,
25:41
Speaker 1: I went back into that same position today, I'd be okay,
25:45
Speaker 1: I'd handle it completely differently because I've had I've had
25:49
Speaker 1: this sort of time of refinement where I don't know
25:53
Speaker 1: that I meant to submit to God. I knew I
25:55
Speaker 1: needed to change something and went in a direction that
26:00
Speaker 1: I didn't expect, you know, But I'd be lying if
26:05
Speaker 1: I said it felt it felt more haphazard to me
26:09
Speaker 1: than it did determinative. Right, Yes, But I do think
26:15
Speaker 1: that that refining that happens across that time is really crucial,
26:19
Speaker 1: and so having someone like you come alongside and say,
26:22
Speaker 1: you know, kind of nudge you in those directions would
26:26
Speaker 1: have been really helpful. I had that occasionally, but I
26:30
Speaker 1: think everybody sort of needs it m hm.
26:33
Speaker 3: Right, because we all have blind spots, and also because
26:37
Speaker 3: in our mind, like we can create this echo chamber
26:42
Speaker 3: where our thoughts sound good to us. But the other
26:47
Speaker 3: piece of the Lord has been having me lean into
26:49
Speaker 3: is really the language that people are using, right, so
26:54
Speaker 3: when we're talking, we're not always aware of word choices
27:00
Speaker 3: that we have that are actually where we're speaking death
27:03
Speaker 3: or partnering in agreement with what essentially becomes a word
27:07
Speaker 3: curse instead of speaking life or believing life as well.
27:11
Speaker 3: It's just like it's we just don't have we're not
27:14
Speaker 3: able to step outside ourselves to see that. And so
27:17
Speaker 3: that's why, yes, like when you work with someone, why
27:20
Speaker 3: we see if it's the right person to work with
27:24
Speaker 3: that acceleration on that trajectory. And I've seen that even
27:27
Speaker 3: for myself, Like if I think back to even just
27:30
Speaker 3: last year, the amount of growth personally and business wise
27:36
Speaker 3: came be caught out of It really came with working
27:42
Speaker 3: with this one person who was able to call out
27:43
Speaker 3: things that I hadn't been able to see or hadn't
27:47
Speaker 3: realized how profoundly it was actually impacting many areas of
27:51
Speaker 3: my life. And once that was called out, it's like
27:54
Speaker 3: whoah okay, Like it was hard and painful, but it
27:57
Speaker 3: was also exactly what I needed.
27:59
Speaker 2: And had I not.
28:02
Speaker 3: Gone through that, I don't know that I would have
28:06
Speaker 3: ever come to that realization. Or it's just like at
28:08
Speaker 3: what point would I have come to that realization, right,
28:12
Speaker 3: And it's consistent with the way that God has what
28:17
Speaker 3: he has written into the foundation of the world, which
28:19
Speaker 3: is we're created for a relationship because he is a
28:22
Speaker 3: god of relationship.
28:23
Speaker 2: So you don't see solo heroes in the Bible. Even Jesus,
28:26
Speaker 2: although he could very well have.
28:28
Speaker 3: Operated solo, he didn't right now, He didn't need refinement,
28:33
Speaker 3: but everybody else on planet Earth does.
28:36
Speaker 2: And so it's like that.
28:37
Speaker 3: Aspect of iron sharpening iron, like if we try to,
28:41
Speaker 3: if we think that we can figure out some of
28:43
Speaker 3: these things on our own, that is a huge level
28:45
Speaker 3: of self deception.
28:47
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting, and I mean this kind
28:50
Speaker 1: of goes along with your new book as I understand it, right,
28:52
Speaker 1: thirty three Demotionals from the Life of Jesus for you know,
28:55
Speaker 1: sort of with some lessons for Christian Entrepreneurs. I know
28:59
Speaker 1: that's not the title. Maybe you give the title.
29:01
Speaker 3: What is the Rock Solid Business, thirty three Lessons from
29:06
Speaker 3: Jesus for Entrepreneurs.
29:08
Speaker 1: I got the thirty three right, I knew that, yest. Yeah,
29:11
Speaker 1: rocks allid business And that's coming out twenty twenty six,
29:14
Speaker 1: But is it already out on Amazon or did I
29:16
Speaker 1: just missma.
29:17
Speaker 3: No, it's not, it's not out. I was going to
29:19
Speaker 3: do it this month, but that date will probably be
29:22
Speaker 3: pushed back again a bit based on some other things
29:24
Speaker 3: God has brought up.
29:25
Speaker 2: But yes, like the.
29:26
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I know how that goes. So I guess
29:33
Speaker 1: the you know, as I think about the life of Jesus,
29:36
Speaker 1: I think one of the things I'm always cautious of
29:39
Speaker 1: is to say, yeah, I agree with you, Jesus didn't
29:43
Speaker 1: need refinement, and yet he shows us the cadence of
29:48
Speaker 1: life necessary to be obedient to the Father and all things,
29:53
Speaker 1: and that it wasn't refining for him. It was just natural. Yeah,
29:58
Speaker 1: it was the organic way that he knew he had
30:01
Speaker 1: to live life. And I don't think he was doing
30:04
Speaker 1: it as an instructional exercise. Maybe partially showing us how
30:08
Speaker 1: to do it. But I don't ever get the sense
30:11
Speaker 1: that Jesus is like, Hey, I don't really need to
30:12
Speaker 1: go off into the wilderness by myself and pray I
30:15
Speaker 1: don't actually need to do that. I'm going to do
30:18
Speaker 1: it so that you can kind of see it, because
30:20
Speaker 1: you need the refinement. But I don't I think he's
30:23
Speaker 1: really in his humanness, living this life and recognizing where
30:28
Speaker 1: his strength and power comes from. And I always find
30:32
Speaker 1: that to be a really important distinction so that we
30:34
Speaker 1: don't collapse Jesus into Yeah, he didn't need to do
30:38
Speaker 1: any of the It's like Jesus didn't really need to eat,
30:40
Speaker 1: but he did because it would have been weird if
30:42
Speaker 1: he never ate, you know, It's like, no, he's having
30:44
Speaker 1: the human experience. He doesn't have the sin that we have,
30:48
Speaker 1: but he's showing us the practices that need to be
30:51
Speaker 1: done in order to live in obedience to the Father.
30:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you actually for saying that, because
30:58
Speaker 3: what I meant by refinement is like he already was pure, right,
31:02
Speaker 3: Like he's perfectly got, so he didn't need to have
31:05
Speaker 3: like the impurities were fined out of.
31:08
Speaker 2: Him because he was already perfect. We need that part
31:12
Speaker 2: of it.
31:12
Speaker 3: But yes, like I do believe he he would take
31:15
Speaker 3: that time away because he knew from how critical it
31:19
Speaker 3: would be to make sure he is focused on what
31:22
Speaker 3: God was actually asking him, like that strengthening, right, Like
31:25
Speaker 3: that's why we go to him. It's like the one
31:29
Speaker 3: of the most heartbreaking things that I hear is when
31:32
Speaker 3: people think of prayer or worship or like any of
31:36
Speaker 3: those disciplines that we do as like a checklist, because
31:39
Speaker 3: it is easy to fall into that instead of like, no,
31:43
Speaker 3: this is an invitation from your father to get to
31:46
Speaker 3: know him better, to be strengthened, to be able to
31:49
Speaker 3: be aware and stand against the things of the world
31:52
Speaker 3: that pull us out of fellowship and out of alignment
31:56
Speaker 3: with him.
31:58
Speaker 1: He finds the people kind of thought into that because
32:02
Speaker 1: they don't want to take the time or don't feel
32:04
Speaker 1: like they have the time.
32:06
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and so that's a belief, right, a belief
32:09
Speaker 3: that they're happy. The belief is if I if I
32:14
Speaker 3: take the time to stop and pray or sit with
32:18
Speaker 3: the Lord. I've heard some people see that as lazy,
32:23
Speaker 3: like they think, oh, I should be doing not just
32:25
Speaker 3: sitting there. Sometimes yeah, it's they start to think that
32:32
Speaker 3: that's because they're not doing they're not stewarding. But James,
32:38
Speaker 3: as I thought about, okay, why like what is really
32:41
Speaker 3: underlying that belief? And if you think about someone, the
32:46
Speaker 3: reason we don't follow through with something that we know
32:49
Speaker 3: to be good is because there's a belief that we're
32:52
Speaker 3: holding about that that's like pulling us out of that.
32:55
Speaker 3: And what as I've asked Christians business owner or not, like,
32:59
Speaker 3: what it is? What do they believe they.
33:02
Speaker 2: Can hear God? For example, I'll just ask them that.
33:04
Speaker 3: And it's amazing the number of Christians who say, I
33:10
Speaker 3: don't know if I know how to hear God, or
33:12
Speaker 3: I don't believe that I can hear God. So, if
33:15
Speaker 3: you think about it, sitting with God and praying is
33:18
Speaker 3: essentially it isn't just telling him what you want, although
33:22
Speaker 3: we do that. The understanding is I want to hear
33:25
Speaker 3: from God. Well, if you don't believe you'll hear from
33:28
Speaker 3: him or you're not sure, well, how motivated are you
33:31
Speaker 3: going to be to want to do a practice that
33:33
Speaker 3: like causes you to just feel act right? And So
33:41
Speaker 3: when I encounter Christians who have that, I'm like, well, okay,
33:45
Speaker 3: first of all, if you believe in Jesus, like let's
33:48
Speaker 3: make sure, yeah, if you've accepted him as your Lord
33:50
Speaker 3: and savior, then you need to stand on the promises
33:53
Speaker 3: like one, as you're a good shepherd, he promises you
33:57
Speaker 3: will hear his voice.
33:58
Speaker 2: And because as you have.
34:00
Speaker 3: The Lord, he promised the Holy Spirit, which literally is
34:04
Speaker 3: our communication line to the Lord.
34:06
Speaker 2: So it's like you need to activate that.
34:08
Speaker 3: And so that's one of the things I try to do,
34:12
Speaker 3: like whether it's with clients or leading retreats or whatever,
34:15
Speaker 3: it's like, let's practice like cultivating your ability to hear
34:19
Speaker 3: from the Lord, because then you're going to be more
34:21
Speaker 3: likely to show up in that prayer time or to
34:24
Speaker 3: follow through with some of these things where it's just
34:26
Speaker 3: like about communion with the Lord and not something that
34:30
Speaker 3: makes you feel like you've done your due diligence for
34:33
Speaker 3: the day.
34:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there is a subtle but very real difference
34:38
Speaker 1: between viewing this as something that I check a box
34:42
Speaker 1: for and Okay, now I've done my piety for the day,
34:44
Speaker 1: I can move on, versus really deeply understanding that obedience
34:50
Speaker 1: opens the world up to us. In other words, it
34:54
Speaker 1: it gives God opportunities to really show himself to us.
34:57
Speaker 1: And probably the better way to say that is it
35:00
Speaker 1: opens our eyes to recognize what God is already doing.
35:05
Speaker 1: If we're always constantly just trying to take care of
35:07
Speaker 1: the stuff ourselves, we tend to think that we're taking
35:10
Speaker 1: care of it ourselves firstus. If we really are following Christ,
35:16
Speaker 1: we start to recognize that God is actually doing things
35:19
Speaker 1: in our life he's caring for things, he's providing. So yeah,
35:25
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating dynamic. I sense that even in my
35:29
Speaker 1: own life, where you do have these sort of subtle
35:34
Speaker 1: falsehoods that tend to drive your behavior in one way
35:38
Speaker 1: or another, you really start to believe about yourself and
35:41
Speaker 1: that those have to be You have to be pretty
35:43
Speaker 1: consistent about even questioning your own thoughts and asking is
35:48
Speaker 1: that true though, really? Or am I just sort of
35:52
Speaker 1: blocking myself out of seeing God do something really spectacular?
35:56
Speaker 2: Yeah?
35:57
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And God gave me an acronym that describes that.
36:04
Speaker 3: I call it the faith optimization gap. And so the
36:07
Speaker 3: letter's fog fog or walking.
36:10
Speaker 2: Frond of bug.
36:11
Speaker 3: And again, it's that difference between what you know and
36:13
Speaker 3: what you really believe because if you if you think
36:17
Speaker 3: about it, belief belief drives us because if God didn't
36:24
Speaker 3: write the need to believe, or like, if that wasn't
36:27
Speaker 3: the core of how He created us, we wouldn't know
36:31
Speaker 3: we needed to believe in him, or there would be
36:32
Speaker 3: no like it would just like interrupt our ability to
36:36
Speaker 3: have faith.
36:39
Speaker 2: At all.
36:40
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's always it is being aware of where
36:44
Speaker 3: of that difference, that gap between what we we know
36:49
Speaker 3: or what we think in our natural mind and where
36:52
Speaker 3: true belief actually resides that is consistent with God's character
36:58
Speaker 3: and his principles and his truth.
37:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I found it really fascinating. Over the last year
37:04
Speaker 1: or so, there's been a lot of research done on
37:06
Speaker 1: wisdom out of cognitive psychology, not like biblical wisdom or
37:11
Speaker 1: theological wisdom, but just wisdom in general, and the way
37:14
Speaker 1: they tend to boil it down. And this is a
37:16
Speaker 1: way over simplification. But we don't have that much time,
37:18
Speaker 1: so you kind of sit back and say, well, what's
37:22
Speaker 1: relevant in the moment. And it seems to me that
37:26
Speaker 1: that way of understanding wisdom, what's relevant in the moment,
37:30
Speaker 1: how do I act in line with what's prioritized in
37:34
Speaker 1: that moment? What's really relevant to me in that moment.
37:37
Speaker 1: For one, it does tend to focus on your skills,
37:40
Speaker 1: your capacities, your priorities. If I walk out into the
37:46
Speaker 1: garage it's my pad, example, and I see a bike
37:48
Speaker 1: hanging on the wall, but I can't ride a bike,
37:51
Speaker 1: it's irrelevant to me as a mode of transportation, right,
37:54
Speaker 1: Whereas if I had the skill level of rite it,
37:56
Speaker 1: I could use it in that way. But for me,
37:59
Speaker 1: it's a and so there's a capacity issue there. But ultimately,
38:02
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times, what I'm finding, even
38:05
Speaker 1: as I think about that sort of concept in my
38:08
Speaker 1: own life, is that I just don't always believe that
38:12
Speaker 1: God is that relevant in the moment, and so I'm
38:16
Speaker 1: tending to sort of push him to the side of
38:18
Speaker 1: my life and say, you're great. I know it, you're awesome.
38:23
Speaker 1: I know you created the world. But I have this
38:25
Speaker 1: task to do and I'd really like to get it done,
38:27
Speaker 1: and so maybe just you know, let me just make
38:30
Speaker 1: sure you know the infinitely relevant God, but in this moment,
38:33
Speaker 1: this email really matters or you know, whatever it is.
38:37
Speaker 1: And it's like, man, I'm really pushing I'm really pushing
38:42
Speaker 1: God out of my life. I'm marginalizing him in a
38:44
Speaker 1: way that I shouldn't be.
38:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it isn't just like just.
38:51
Speaker 3: A minute, God, I'll get back to after that, which
38:54
Speaker 3: I mean, we can laugh about it, but.
38:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's really what happens.
38:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just speaks to his patience and who
39:02
Speaker 3: he is, and he hangs with us like knowing that
39:06
Speaker 3: that's how we can treat him. It's just like, wh'ere
39:10
Speaker 3: our priorities, where what we can see in front.
39:14
Speaker 2: Of us.
39:16
Speaker 3: Is what we gravitate toward, which is why I think
39:21
Speaker 3: Scripture says like faith is being sure of what you
39:25
Speaker 3: hope for in certain of what you do not.
39:27
Speaker 2: See and see.
39:30
Speaker 3: Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Please God,
39:34
Speaker 3: because we have to believe that he exists and that
39:38
Speaker 3: he rewards right those who seek him. And yeah, so
39:43
Speaker 3: it's really like that testing what do we really believe
39:46
Speaker 3: about Him in those moments where something tangible feels pressing.
39:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good word. We're kind of coming
39:57
Speaker 1: in toward the end of our time, and so I
40:00
Speaker 1: usually have guests answer sort of one last question. So
40:04
Speaker 1: I'm interested to get your take on this. You don't
40:06
Speaker 1: have to answer it based on anything we've talked about,
40:08
Speaker 1: So whatever you want to say is great. But here's
40:12
Speaker 1: the question. What do you think the church needs to
40:15
Speaker 1: be doing that maybe it's not doing right now or
40:18
Speaker 1: it's not doing quite as well to be and make
40:21
Speaker 1: more faithful disciples today.
40:24
Speaker 2: Ooh, that is a big question. Okay.
40:33
Speaker 3: I So I was going through the Bible again like
40:41
Speaker 3: in December, like the whole Bible in December, and one
40:43
Speaker 3: of the things that the Lord had highlighted going through
40:46
Speaker 3: it this time is it has to do with the
40:50
Speaker 3: part of relationships and how we are to be in
40:53
Speaker 3: relationship with one another. And I feel like where the
41:00
Speaker 3: modern day church has evolved to is like this feel
41:03
Speaker 3: good church. I don't believe that, at least in my perception.
41:10
Speaker 3: I don't believe that as a church body, we really
41:15
Speaker 3: are following through with the.
41:16
Speaker 2: Church discipline model that Jesus outlined.
41:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
41:22
Speaker 3: I I think it's very challenging for church leadership to
41:30
Speaker 3: hold this tension between like we want to love others,
41:35
Speaker 3: but like what do we do when someone is clearly
41:38
Speaker 3: walking out of step with the Lord? And I think
41:41
Speaker 3: there is a hesitation to correct because of the messages
41:46
Speaker 3: that we get from culture. Right, it's kind of just
41:49
Speaker 3: like do what makes you happy and don't tell me
41:51
Speaker 3: what to do and being judgmental, and because it's really
41:56
Speaker 3: easy for people just to walk down the door to
41:59
Speaker 3: another or walk down the street to another church. Right.
42:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.
42:06
Speaker 3: I wish I had thought of some other specific scriptures
42:09
Speaker 3: but to but just looking at how we are to
42:11
Speaker 3: be in relationship with other and refining if you think
42:15
Speaker 3: about refining is not meant to be a gentle process.
42:20
Speaker 3: Like when God talks about refining, the images that go
42:22
Speaker 3: with it are a refiner's fire and pruning, right, And
42:27
Speaker 3: if you've garmened and you know what pruning is like,
42:31
Speaker 3: it's pretty yeah, you know, you look like you're ruining
42:35
Speaker 3: the plant. Like it's you know, we're not I don't know,
42:39
Speaker 3: it's not sunshine and rainbows.
42:41
Speaker 2: And so I think we've we've moved away from that. Yeah.
42:48
Speaker 2: The other part with.
42:51
Speaker 3: I don't know how like churches as far as like
42:55
Speaker 3: kind of the institution, like the buildings would go to
42:58
Speaker 3: say could can do this? Because we're also fighting against
43:01
Speaker 3: against culture that is consistently moving toward isolation. Is So
43:11
Speaker 3: I think that does make discipleship or walking out life
43:16
Speaker 3: together the way we're meant to challenging because you're literally
43:19
Speaker 3: trying to bring people to something that they might say
43:25
Speaker 3: they want but in practice becomes hard to walk out.
43:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
43:32
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't like, I don't know obviously like
43:38
Speaker 3: what the answer is. But I think that's also where
43:42
Speaker 3: individually we have that responsibility because we are all part
43:47
Speaker 3: of the body of Christ. Is again, instead of putting
43:53
Speaker 3: God in a box or or deciding when we are
43:57
Speaker 3: comfortable about inviting him into our life versus like all aspects,
44:03
Speaker 3: is if we are sincere in surrendering to him and
44:08
Speaker 3: doing his will, like I trust, like he will let
44:12
Speaker 3: us know what is needed. Like for me, Yeah, this year,
44:18
Speaker 3: my word for this year is actually a f ratha
44:22
Speaker 3: the bee opened right, eyes to see, ears to hear.
44:25
Speaker 3: But it's actually in connection to relationships. So he's actually
44:28
Speaker 3: shown me where I have kept like relationships or like
44:34
Speaker 3: just have had a little bit more self focused in
44:36
Speaker 3: certain areas, and he's been this growing conviction in me
44:42
Speaker 3: about what I need to do, what he's asking me
44:45
Speaker 3: to do to be in relationship and be in community
44:50
Speaker 3: with others. So I think if we did that too,
44:53
Speaker 3: like we have the Holy Spirit helping us in that process.
44:55
Speaker 1: And yes, no, I think that's good. I mean I
45:02
Speaker 1: think obviously accountability is crucial, but more than anything else,
45:07
Speaker 1: what I kind of hear you saying is we need
45:08
Speaker 1: to have the conviction that where you know, where we're
45:11
Speaker 1: going on Sunday mornings is actually important beyond Sunday mornings,
45:14
Speaker 1: like this is this is who we are. It's not
45:17
Speaker 1: another thing that we voluntarily go to. It's it's our identity,
45:22
Speaker 1: and so we need to live into that identity. One
45:27
Speaker 1: of my favorite passages first John one nine, and I
45:31
Speaker 1: love it because it makes confession a mark of what
45:33
Speaker 1: the Christian life is supposed to look like. And so
45:36
Speaker 1: you know, we're we tend to be a little bit
45:38
Speaker 1: more shy about sin, and you know, we want to
45:42
Speaker 1: hide sort of what we've done wrong, and we you know,
45:45
Speaker 1: those kind of things. But first John one nine suggests that, no,
45:48
Speaker 1: this confession of sin should be part of what we
45:51
Speaker 1: do with one another. And so, yeah, I really appreciate
45:55
Speaker 1: that answer. I think it's good. And I love that
45:57
Speaker 1: you know, you're reading through the Bible again and this
46:00
Speaker 1: is sort of the part that God shows you. I
46:01
Speaker 1: think it's pretty fantastic.
46:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well.
46:07
Speaker 1: As we close up, tell people where they can find
46:09
Speaker 1: a little bit more from you. You know, give your
46:11
Speaker 1: website and then your old book is out on Amazon
46:16
Speaker 1: right now, Bread Like Rain is out on Amazon. So
46:21
Speaker 1: I'll have that link in the show notes. But yeah,
46:24
Speaker 1: give your website, talk about when the new book.
46:26
Speaker 2: Will be out.
46:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the website it's Andrea Leco dot com. I
46:31
Speaker 3: know you'll put the link in there as well. It's
46:34
Speaker 3: easier to find it that way.
46:35
Speaker 2: So yeah, so the.
46:36
Speaker 3: Website's the easiest because you can, well if you want
46:39
Speaker 3: to see a sneak peek of Bread Like Rain, and
46:42
Speaker 3: that book is about encountering God's miraculous provision in your
46:46
Speaker 3: daily life and really how it's meant to grow your
46:50
Speaker 3: faith and shape your trust in Him. So you can
46:53
Speaker 3: get a sneak peak of that if you want to
46:54
Speaker 3: see it before just getting the book on Amazon. But yes,
46:59
Speaker 3: the Rock Solid Business thirty three Lessons from Jesus for Entrepreneurs.
47:05
Speaker 3: The actual publication date is a little bit to be determined,
47:08
Speaker 3: but you can get a snee or you can sign
47:10
Speaker 3: up on the website for the wait list so that
47:13
Speaker 3: when it releases you can get it that way. And
47:16
Speaker 3: then if you're a Christian business owner, you could also
47:19
Speaker 3: get onto my email list through my website as well.
47:21
Speaker 2: So your website is the easiest. But yeah, thank you
47:24
Speaker 2: for asking.
47:25
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have that link in the show notes. I'd
47:28
Speaker 1: encourage you to check it out everybody, especially those of
47:30
Speaker 1: you who are involved in entrepreneurial pursuits. But I will
47:34
Speaker 1: say I found Breadla Like Rain to be helpful to me,
47:36
Speaker 1: and I'm not particularly an entrepreneur, and so I would
47:40
Speaker 1: encourage everybody just to take a look at it. And
47:43
Speaker 1: I think it was a really good read. And I
47:44
Speaker 1: appreciated a lot of your insights both in the book
47:47
Speaker 1: and on the podcast Waiting You're Around the book, but yeah,
47:50
Speaker 1: it was great too, and a lot of the things
47:52
Speaker 1: we talked about I think resonate with what you have
47:54
Speaker 1: in the book. So it's always a good way to
47:56
Speaker 1: do it. We give people a little teaser and then
47:58
Speaker 1: they go and they go on check out the book
48:01
Speaker 1: on Amazon, So I encourage you to do that. I'll
48:03
Speaker 1: put the links in the show notes and everybody can
48:06
Speaker 1: check those out. And just Andrea really appreciate you being
48:09
Speaker 1: on the show and have enjoyed the conversation.
48:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much again for having me here.
48:15
Speaker 1: No problem, all right, everybody, Well we will catch you
48:18
Speaker 1: on the next episode of Thinking Christian. So thanks for
48:21
Speaker 1: being here and take care, right. I just want to
48:24
Speaker 1: take a second to thank the team at Life Audio
48:26
Speaker 1: for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast.
48:29
Speaker 1: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you'll find dozens
48:31
Speaker 1: of other faith centered podcasts in their network. They've got
48:34
Speaker 1: shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.