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INTERVIEW: Jason Wilson Breaks Down 'The Man The Moment Demands,' Talks Intergenerational Trauma +More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Everybody's the e j en Vy, Jess, Hilarry Charlamage, the guy.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: We are the Breakfast Club.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: We got a special guest in the.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: Belting, one of my favorite brothers on the planet.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Man, Brother, Jason Wilson.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome brother, Welcome back to meet you. I'm doing well.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: All is well? What's up? Brother, Brother? That is a
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: nice beard you got there. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You Ja Jaly cat Daddy Now.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: To be loving Jason will never see that you're crazy be.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Texting me like you know, Jason, that man is happily mard.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I never see any of that. Yeah, that's good, that's good.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, But how are you though? I'm doing well?
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Man fought the fluent sinus affection. I was bet ridden
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: like for six or seven days at the beginning of
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: the year, couldn't work out, couldn't do anything, and just
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: had allow my body to heal and practice what I
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: preach and just rest and stop allowing my life to
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: be centered around what I gotta do.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: You know, your new book is called The Man. The
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Moment Demands Master. The ten characteristics of the comprehensive man.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: So the start of the year, right start of the year,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: you know, that's a reset for a lot of people.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: But you started the year, you know and sick. Yeah,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: six seven days, so it's not.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: On the reset.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you had to be completely Still. What did you
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: realize in that moment?
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: I realized, you know that you know, as men, you know,
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: we can't keep our foot to the throttle. You know,
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: we stay in first gear of manhood, which I call
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: just the masculine mode, which gets us from stop to start.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: But if we stay in that gear, we're gonna burn
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: the clutch out in the process. I believe I was
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: burning my life clutch out, just working really hard on
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: this book and other things. And so it gave me
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: a lot of time to sit with the most high
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: and just meditate on allowing myself to just be instead
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: of performing. And that's what's so many men struggle with,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: just living performance based lives, and it's taking us out,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: you know. But they gave me time to reflect, and
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: then you know, it's crazy. I had to beat sister
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: be someone which they call like my daughter. Now, I
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: had to do her podcast, and the Holy Spirit is like,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I need you you're going to be weak, but you
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: gotta go. I got something you gotta tell her, And
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: so I barely could make the flight. I wanted to
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: make sure I wasn't contagious. Went down to the podcast,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: brother and my sister. Within a matter of maybe twenty minutes,
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: the interview shifted from that to her, and I was
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: able to answer one of her prayers. But if I
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: wasn't weak, because I'm like, man, why would I get
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: sick in this time when I need to promote this
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: message most I was like, I needed you weak for
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: my daughter, because if you're strong, you may not be
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: broken enough for me to speak to you and to
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: speak the words I need to say to her.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: The episode ended with us praying, and it was very powerful.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: But that weakness allowed me to be the man in
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: that moment for her, you know, and a lot of time,
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: I'm just man, we miss those moments because we feel
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: we have to be perpetually strong, which we know by
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: now with research that is killing us. And so that
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: weakness in that moment was needed, and I'm thankful that
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: I surrendered to that so I can be the man
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: in the moment for be some.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Mom I'm absolutely grateful that you got to do that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: That's one of my friends. Like she's always the one
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: who is like spiritually strong for everybody else, Like she'll
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: hit me out the blue, like even you know, she
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: may get just because we connected in that way, me
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: and her pretty v you know a few other people,
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: but she she's always spiritually strong and the one praying
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: for everybody all the time and just like putting her
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: whatever she got going on to the side to make
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: sure we're all good, you know.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: So I'm happy that she was able to do.
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  Speaker 4: It was deep, you know, I had shared with her,
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  Speaker 4: and I had no idea what my daughter was dealing with.
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  Speaker 1: And I refer to my daughter. She's like my daughter's age.
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  Speaker 4: But she and a lot of women I believe who
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: are single, especially if your life is renewed in Christ,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: you feel that you being hidden is that you're not valuable.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: And I had to let her know that no one
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: puts anything in the safe that's not valuable, and he's
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: protecting you. It was a very powerful moment because it
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: liberated her from the lies in her head. And so yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I've adopted her, so she's a family now.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: But I'm glad I was able to meet that moment
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  Speaker 1: for her.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Wow, you got the book broken down into three parts, dynamic,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: deeper in devotion. Can you explain the difference?
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  Speaker 4: But sure, the dynamic is what we as men are
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  Speaker 4: used to fighting. You know, of course we're used to that,
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  Speaker 4: and aightly it's in us to protect the problem is
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  Speaker 4: many of us are fighting the wrong way. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: think of how many intellectually gifted men who are incarcerated
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: because they couldn't rule their emotions in the moment. The
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  Speaker 4: next one, of course, is number two, which we tend
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: to just gravitate to, is the provider, you know, providing
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: for our families, making sure they have the care they need,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: not just the money, because as we know, once you
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  Speaker 4: get it, it's not really fulfilling.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: It's what you do. What is your presence? Really? Is
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: your presence really present? You know?
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  Speaker 4: Are you really active with your children, your wife and
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: your family and your community. Then I go to the leader,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: like many of us want to be leaders, all right,
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: but a lot of us don't lead by example. We
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: lead by intimidation. So I unpact that, and then we
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: go to the deeper, which is the lover. I start
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: with the lover characteristic because many men we believe love
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: is sex only. And I share an intimate moment with
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: my wife when she had we actually, my wife had
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: five miscarriages, and as a result of our last one,
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: they had to make a decision vertically on her stomach
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  Speaker 4: and she you know, as a woman, you become self
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  Speaker 4: conscious of that scar. And so the one even while
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  Speaker 4: we were you know, intimate, the Holy Spirit say I
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: want you to kiss that scar from the top of
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  Speaker 4: it to the bottom. And I allowed myself because I'm
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  Speaker 4: emotionally intelligent and I'm a comprehensive man. You know, sex
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: to me isn't a lot of men we think is
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: about the ground and power, like Mma, like, it's about force,
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  Speaker 4: but it's not always about that. It's about sensitivity and connecting.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: And so when I started kissing the scar, my wife
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: started weeping and crying, and in that moment, I was
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  Speaker 4: able to allow her to release this self consciousness, well
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: a self conscious feeling about this scar, and I just
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: share where she's always beautiful. But those kisses confirmed that,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't just words. In that moment, then
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  Speaker 4: I moved from the lover characteristic to the nurturer. Many
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: of us as men. We believe that being a nurturer
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  Speaker 4: is a feminine attribute first and foremost, where you're supposed
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  Speaker 4: to be human, Masculine and feminine are just adjectives, all right.
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  Speaker 4: Being masculine means you exude strength, boldness, and aggression, which
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  Speaker 4: we have to have. And so if I'm a nurturer,
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  Speaker 4: does that mean I'm feminine?
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  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 4: The goal for us as humans is to be human,
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  Speaker 4: to exercise humanity. Many of the greatest cultures are nurturers.
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  Speaker 4: Cattle herders farm are nurturers. Any teacher mentor you're a nurturer.
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  Speaker 4: You have the nurture to develop anything. And then from
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  Speaker 4: the nurture I go to the gentleman. When I discovered
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: I unpacked chivalry. We have been misled to believe that
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  Speaker 4: that's a system to pander to women.
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  Speaker 1: It's not.
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  Speaker 4: It was actually a code of honor for medieval knights warriors.
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  Speaker 4: And so how do we relininguish that? We relinquish that?
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  Speaker 4: Then I go to unpack the alpha male myth like
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  Speaker 4: there is no battle between two wolves to see who
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  Speaker 4: will lead the wolf pack first and foremost. That study
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  Speaker 4: was done on wolves in captivity. What they come to
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  Speaker 4: realize is that the leaders, or the alphas in this pack.
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  Speaker 1: Were the male and female wolf.
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  Speaker 4: So in essence, in a human sense, the alphas are
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  Speaker 4: the husband and wife leading a family. So I tell
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  Speaker 4: my brothers, look, if you really want to be an alpha,
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  Speaker 4: get married, lead your family, build the community, and that's
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  Speaker 4: what it's about. So from the gentlemen, I go to
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  Speaker 4: the friend. Many of us we say we're friends, but
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  Speaker 4: we don't understand really what that means. Like you say,
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  Speaker 4: I'll be somemone.
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  Speaker 1: She sacrifices her life for you guys. You know her time.
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  Speaker 4: And I give an example of the Winnie the Pool series.
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  Speaker 4: You know where you'll see e War clearly depressed or
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  Speaker 4: always in the bad word or in the funk sad.
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  Speaker 4: Did his friends say you toxic, I'm gonna put up
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  Speaker 4: a boundary here, you're ruining my energy. No, they always
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  Speaker 4: accepted him for who he was because they knew he
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  Speaker 4: was their friend. And that's what we need now in
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  Speaker 4: times like this, is a friend who will endure all
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  Speaker 4: adversity and challenge. So from those characteristics I go to
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  Speaker 4: the devotion. The first is the husband. What does it
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  Speaker 4: look like to sacrificially love your wife and honor her
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  Speaker 4: the way that you want to be honored. And that's
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  Speaker 4: where I really take time to help men unpack their
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  Speaker 4: emotions and how we allow the way we were raised
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  Speaker 4: to prevent us from truly living from our hearts and
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  Speaker 4: giving it our all to our wives. You know, we
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  Speaker 4: stay guarded and often say, brothers, there is no freedom
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: in the facade. And as a man been married twenty
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  Speaker 4: six years, because of the way I grew up, I
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: still have to fight to hold my wife's hand in
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  Speaker 4: public or to be romantic because it was like I'm
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: dropping my guard and so that's something I'm still working
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  Speaker 4: to improve on. And the last two, of course, is
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  Speaker 4: the father. You know, I can't tell you how many
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: times as a father I passed down the harshness of
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: my dad onto my own daughter.
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  Speaker 1: And as a result of that.
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  Speaker 4: You know, we had to go through a lot of therapy, prayer,
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  Speaker 4: and a lot of i'm sorries for me to say, hey, lex,
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  Speaker 4: I apologize for passing on to you what I got
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  Speaker 4: from my dad, and I make it better. And so
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  Speaker 4: the father is helping men learn how to parent, not
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: from what we didn't get from my father, but give
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: our children what we long for And the last one
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  Speaker 4: I closed with the son characteristic, because that's the one
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  Speaker 4: that made me into a comprehensive man. I tell men
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  Speaker 4: all the time, if you want to become comprehensive, run
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: to the areas in your life, life that make you
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: feel what they would say is are unmasculine emotions. This world,
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  Speaker 4: this society's and dire need of a man's nurturing love
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: are patience. What does long suffering look like from a man?
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  Speaker 4: So when I had to care for my mother, she
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: needed more than a protect and provider. She needed someone
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  Speaker 4: who would nurture her, who would file her nails when
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: the caregiver couldn't paint her nails, wash her hair, wash
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: her And I couldn't do that the way I was.
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  Speaker 4: And so I end with that one because it makes
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  Speaker 4: it puts men in positions where we have to be transparent.
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  Speaker 4: How many of us have you know family members that aging, parents,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: or children in the community that bring out emotions that
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: make you feel weak or sad? Those are those are
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: not times we run from as men. That's when you
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: but they would say, man up, that's when you use
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: the masculine attributes. Run towards that move past your fears
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: of being transparent or perceive as week because you may
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: shed a tear, or you may share empathy and be
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: the man you need to be in that moment for
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: those in need.
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Very intentional, like a very intentional person About what you wrote,
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  Speaker 5: I imagine that a lot of this was written from
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: your personal experience, absolutely right, okay? And would you feel
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: like the husband part did that? Did all of that
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: transpire within like the twenty six years or were you
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: ever married.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Before or that's a good question.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: I wasn't married before, but I mean, you know, twenty
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: and fifteen. I think we got married in nineteen ninety eight.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: So in twenty fifteen, my wife and I were considering separation.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: Because I was only a masculine male. I could only
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: express my emotions through hitting the table, hitting refrigerator, raising
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: my voice, lacking the control needed to really communicate with her.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: And so that's when I realized that I needed some help.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: That I was holding on to a lot of trial.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I'm unresolved, anger for my father, wound, the death of
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: my both of my brothers, my best friend. I could
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: go down the line, and I got tired of allowing
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: that trauma to time travel and ruin my present blessings.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And so the husband chapter basically it shares.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: How I evolved, but even who I am now that
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: it's constantly a fight.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Were married, You know what I mean. You gotta make
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: sure your heart is there.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I keep a picture of my wife and my phone
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: when she was young, during a time when she was
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: very vulnerable, when she didn't feel things were stable in
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: her own life, and that keeps my heart tender towards
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: her in the moments when we may not get along.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: And so I also share an analogy of the crayons
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  Speaker 4: for men so we can be practical, have a practical
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: understanding of how we're so limited in who we are
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: as men we've allowed society to find us. So I
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: use a sixty four box of crayons as the amount
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: of emotions women have access to will actually choose to express,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: because we both.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Have access to both of them.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: But we as men, like ourselves in the eight box
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: of crayons, and we probably only express four. Then we
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: get frustrated when we're communicating with our women, like why
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: don't you understand me? Well, my brother, she's expressing violet,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: all you got is purple. She's expressing lime. Now you
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: got to grab a green and a yellow to try
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: to meet the moment. And so I'm encouraging man like, Look,
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: I'm not telling you to relinquish your masculine attributes because
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: then now you'll be deficient in that area. You got
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: to be the lion and the lamb. And so what
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: I'm telling men is to be human, express what you feel.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: All of us as men want to be more available,
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: want to be more transparent, want to be more emotionally open.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: But we fear being admonished or impassively dismissed by those
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: that we love. So then we go into suffering in silence,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: and then that leads to emotional incarceration. Then that leads
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: to suicidal ideations, and then our lives don't even know
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: what we were dealing with until they plan.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: In our funerals. And so that's why I poured my heart.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: Into this book, because I mean, just recently, brother, my
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: best close friend called me and said, you know, for
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: the first time he looked at his gun and thought
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: about it. And so this is what a lot of
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: men are going through.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: But when you meet him.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: He's smiling, he's jovial, he's happy, and so what's the saying,
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: don't miss the forest for the trees. I'm telling people,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: not just our wives, but the brothers who have friends,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: don't miss the struggle for the smile. Just because the
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: brother says I'm good, I'm all right, doesn't mean that
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: he's good and we should check on each other.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I do have two questions that something you said. One
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: was you talked about your relationship with your daughter and
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you said not sure the term of you was. I
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: guess you had to apologize or change because what you
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: learned from your father, you were teaching your daughter and
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you realize it was wrong.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: What was that my father, I had no idea at
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: the time that he had a lot of un resolved
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: anger from the way he was raised in the South,
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: had to deal with a lot of racism, and he
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: carried that back to Detroit. And I mean I remember
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: one time brother he asked me. He ran a barber shop.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: He asked me just simply to cut the arrow on.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: I accidentally cut the heat on. I think got may
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: been ten years old. He cursed me out in front
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: of everybody in the barbershop. That right there shattered my
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: confidence as a man. It demeaned me and it didn't
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: stop there. He loved me, but he thought giving me
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: gifts would suffice, and it didn't. I needed him to
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: be active in my life, but he couldn't because of
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: all the pain that he'd been through. And so what
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: it's called intergenerational trauma when you passed down what you've received.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: So before I knew it, this anger that he even
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: had taught my mother. He said he he told my
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: mother one day they had gotten divorced, and she accidentally
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: opened one of his letters. What mailed it, came to
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: the house.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And here it is.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: I'm going to middle school and my mother shows me
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: her gun and her purse, and she says, your father
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: just called and said he's gonna do something to me
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: because I opened this letter. So here this is a
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: young boy trying to focus in class. I got to
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: think about my mother's life. But that's how much anger
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: my father had. And brother, you know, I hope my
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: transparency free some brothers listening or watching. It's like, you know,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: you don't want to create a legacy of wounds.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: You want to fight and do.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: Whatever you can to get healed because if not, now
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: you're going to see that same behavior and your children, then.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: You're mad at them, and all they did was become
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: who you were.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: That's why I think apologizing to your kids is so important,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: because that's something that you know, I feel like I
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: never got from from my father. And I always say
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: my father raised me out of fear and not love.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: And I think that's what.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: We got to avoid doing, raising our kids out of fear.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, we gotta we gotta raise our kids out
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: of love and not not fear, the fear of that
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: they might end up, you know, falling into the street
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: or end up if we were in the street, and
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: the same thing that we were doing, like, we got
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: to relinquish that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: That's true. I call it fear based parenting. You know.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: My mother was that way, which is understandably. I understand
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: why she was because she just lost a son, you know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: and then mother brother from my father, he was murdered,
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: so she she was terrified that I would die the
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: same way. And because of that fear, she had checked out,
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: you know, meaning the affirmation that you typically get from
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: your mother, the nurturing. I didn't get that my mother
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: loved me. Like everyone who knew my mother knew she
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: loved me. But I realized in therapy one session when
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: the therapist asked me who we get the band aid
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: when you.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Got hurt, and I said I will. My mother would
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: just tell me where it was.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: And in that moment, I realized, Man, this is why
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I'm misusing women, because I never understood the importance of
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: having my mother, the understanding of what nurturing is, the
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: value with the affirmation. And I unpacked the mother wound
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: as well in that book because many of us, what
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: we're seeking is the love for my mothers and women,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: and they'll never be able to match what we didn't
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: need and it's unfair to them. And so I had
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: to unpack all of that brother because I didn't want
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: to transfer that onto my children. And so I've allowed
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: myself to be more tender in that area. My son
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: by far has the best father because I've become the.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Embodiment of what I teach.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: And so to your point, year, it's absolutely important for
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: us as parents to not be fear based, especially my son's.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: But he's driving, Now, why do I have to teach
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: him how to get pulled over by the police?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Why am I focused on that? What is that teaching him?
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Is that really making it better or is it making
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: it worse when he gets pulled over? But those are
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: the things you know, we have to teach in our community.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, making sure you
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: balance that with some positive re enforcement and to teach
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: them that how to live in a moment, because when
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: we teach our children, we got to understand we're also
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: teaching them how to miss the moment, because they're programming
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: themselves like, Okay, if this happened, this probably gonna happen.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Because that happened to dad, that happened to mom, It's
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: probably gonna happen to me. And so in that moment,
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: if they're not open to be able to meet the
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: moment to do what's necessary, they may fail in that moment.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I know you're, oh, what the last question?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You talk about turning it off right. And this is
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: important because I say it with Jess, I say it
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: with myself, and I say it with a lot of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: other brothers talk about the importance of turning it off right.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I think we come from a place where we had
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: to get it right. And if you listen to just story,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: just tell your times where.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: The lights were off.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And so I know for herself it's hard to turn
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: things down now because you never want to go back
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to that place. I feel the same way, and a
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: lot of my friends around me feel the same way.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: It's like we can't stop because you never know when
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it's over. So talk about the important of that, because
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: you say, you know, beginning of the year, you had
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: to turn it off, and for some it's difficult to
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: turn it off. I mean, I've seen just recently in
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the hospital still doing stories because it's like it's hard
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to turn the shit off.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: That's real, brother. For me, you know, I remember the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: concept of balance life.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: We hit that a lot, you know. For me, Envy,
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: I live an imbalanced life. So the things that hold
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: the greatest importance must always tip the scale. So we
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: live a balance life. Nothing truly claims priority. So for
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: me it's my it's of course the most high, my family,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: my calling, my health. See, when it's leveled, everything gets
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: the same attention. So I tell people, make sure that
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: scale always tips in favor of what matters the most.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: When I started living that way, and stop living from
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: what I do, stop living from fear again not having
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: I understand that, brother, I stop worrying about those things
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: and realizing I can only do so much man, And
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: then what's most important is to ask yourself, why am
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: I doing this?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You know, so many of.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: Us, especially in the air of social media and everything
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: is broadcast and content creation. It's like our lives are
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: becoming that instead of you know, really being authentic, and
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: it's like, no, I'm pregnant.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have time to do this and just.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Let people know that. But when we allow society to say, hey, Envy,
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: I need you to do this. You the man, You
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: got to do this and promote this. Can you go here?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Man? Your life feels like it's not.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Worth living, you know, and often tell man, you're not
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: tired of living, You're tired of not living. And the
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: same thing with our women. So many of our sisters
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: have to be so strong that they can't even be
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: human either. They can't cry, They gotta work, Am I right?
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: And so as even for them, I'm like, man, I
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: hope we never lose a woman's empathy and love. This
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: world is over when she has to become stoic and
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: hide behind the facade.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: We could forget about it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, my freedom started when I started
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: prioritizing what mattered the most. Everything else, I let it
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: you know, in where it may. But my identity is
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: first and the most high in Christ. After that man,
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: my information come from my home.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Man. And so if I could, if I could shut
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: down now, I'm cool. I was.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I was sad when COVID was over because that meant
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: I had to go back to the norm. I couldn't
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: be with my family to day. You see what I'm saying,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: And so I just tell people to live from that.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Make sure that don't live a balance life. Make sure
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: the skill always tips in favor what you love and
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: matters the most.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: That I had a question.
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: I have one more question, because you seem to like
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: you've done the self work, like to be all of
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: these to play all of these roles, the husband, the son,
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: the father, But you're you know, you're still not perfect
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: and you still can fall short that as well. What
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: happens when, like you know, if you're mad as a
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: dad one day and you react the wrong way, is
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: it ever a point where the husband has to talk
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: to the husband, you are haves to speak to the father,
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: or you have to relate to your kids on a
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: sun level because you're somebody's son. Do you ever merge
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: the roles? So you know what I'm saying, like pull
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: from different places.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, you can't always operate in Yeah, I agree with you,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: you know, absolutely, I'm more between all of them. Again,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: I remember the mental health mental health, mental health expo,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: when the brother asked me, how do you define a man?
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: I say, you can't, and so I have to be
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: anything and everything at any given moment. And so to
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: your point, Charlemagne, you know, I always reconcile. All I
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: tell brothers, we can always make mistakes. Mistakes are great teachers.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: The only worst mistake is the one we don't learn from.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: And so I always apologize immediately. I try to reconcile
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: and make sure that you know, uh, the day doesn't
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: end with me and my children being in eyes, or
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: even me and my wife, because it's not that deep,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: you know. And so yeah, even with my son, you know,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: when he doesn't want to talk. He's a teenager, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: I'm concerned. I don't want to invade his space because
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: he has his own life, but I want to let
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: him know that I'm here for him. So some days
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I just walk to his room door and I see
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: him laying there. Maybe on his phone, and I say, son,
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: do you mind if I just lay down in the
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: room and read ask for his permission. He typically always
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: says sure, Dad, and I lay down, And that opens
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: the door to a conversation and lets him know that
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: he's very important to me, not what I do, not
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: who I am in society, but who I am in
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: that home, and I prioritize that, and being the son
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: in that moment to him is giving him what I
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: wanted as a son. If my father would have gave
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: me that attention, that affirmation, probably would be even further
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: in life than I am now. And so I make
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: sure I'm there for him in all aspects that I can.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Two quick questions, I know you got to go. You
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: removed the word vulnerable from the book completely?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, what what words can we use? In number one?
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Why did you do that?
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: What words can we use this instead of vulnerable?
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: When I discovered that when I read the dictionary, the
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: word itself means susceptible to harm, danger, or even death.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: And so when you think about being in a vulnerable situation,
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: or you hear it on the news, vulnerable citizens were
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: defenseless against a gunman, No good man ever wants to
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: be vulnerable. I don't want my wife, my children, and
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: anyone I love in a vulnerable position. So we're trying
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: to tell men is to be emotionally open, to be
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: transparent with how you feel, and that way is it's
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: a door way to you becoming more human, becoming more
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: of a verbal process or emotionally emotionally intelligent. And that's
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: why I took the word out. That's why it's so
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: hard for us as brothers to say it, because it
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: goes against the way where were created as men.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: We don't want anyone that we love to be in
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a vulnerable position.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: And however, what is hindering us as men is that
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: we're not emotionally open with those who love us. And
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: so as a result of that, the suffering in silence
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: peace is really taking us down. And so I just
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: encourage by being the example of being transparent and emotionally
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: open and showing my men that just because you can
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: express how you feel doesn't mean you'll be taking advantage
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: of And if someone misuses your emotions, be thankful. Now
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: you know who's in front of you and you got
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: a decision to make you know.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: My last question, I love when you talk about, you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: your relationship with your wife. And I saw a video
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: where you said, happy wife, happy life. Isn't about love?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: What is it about?
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, it never was a term of endearment.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: We know that as men. It was a way, you
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: know what was it saying? You know, give her what
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: she want, keep her mouth shut so you can have peace,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: all right? And now women are realizing this is not
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: a happy life for neither of us, and so call
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: it a misleading mantra. Brother and as an another one too,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: if you're out with your wife, this happened to me
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: a few times. I'm addressed as the lesser half and
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: she's the better half. So I had no idea until
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I was meeting with a psychologists, well no a psychotherapist,
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: of what that does to a man's mind, that you
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: are the lesser half, and the resentment that silently builds
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: within your heart. And so my wife and I vowed
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: not to use that mantra. Ever, so when Sta Nicole
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: and I say happy houses, happy spouses, and it takes
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: for both of us to meet the moment in marriage together,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: every moment, we're always willing to cross the line. If
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: she's not doing well, mentally, emotionally, I have to cross
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: the line if I'm falling short like you were saying,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: just she crosses the line. And that's why our marriage is.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: We call it a beautiful struggle. We're pushing through. We
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: won't give up on each other. And the biggest game
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: changer was when we both decided that we know we're
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: not intentionally hurting each other. There has to be just
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: some miscommunication and let's be patient and work through it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: And we're going on twenty seven years this year and
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: thirty three years together.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, thank you, brother. Well, let you have it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Pick up the new book out now.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Jason Cat Daddy Wilson Man the moment demand. Okay, Daddy,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: it's the Breakfast Club.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Good morning wake that ans up in the morning. The
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Breakfast Club