Latest / The Book Deal / Editing: spreadsheets, reading backwards, rulers and when readers point out errors

Transcript

Editing: spreadsheets, reading backwards, rulers and when readers point out errors · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: So no matter what's.
• 0:26
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: Stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: I'm Madeline Cleary.
• 0:32
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Tina, Madeleine, Natasha: The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Hello everybody.
• 0:57
  Tina Strachan: My name is Tina Strachan and I'm so excited to be here with my most wonderful co-hosts, Madeline Cleary and Natasha Rai.
• 1:04
  Tina Strachan: Hello?
• 1:05
  Tina Strachan: Hi.
• 1:06
  Tina Strachan: Hi.
• 1:07
  Tina Strachan: Oh gosh, ladies, it's been a whole nother month since we've caught up and we've all been super duper busy, and I miss you girls.
• 1:16
  Natasha Rai: Aw, I miss you too.
• 1:17
  Natasha Rai: We haven't all caught up, the three of us in person yet.
• 1:20
  Tina Strachan: No,
• 1:21
  Natasha Rai: that's good.
• 1:21
  Natasha Rai: Hang on.
• 1:22
  Natasha Rai: What
• 1:23
  Tina Strachan: have we not?
• 1:24
  Tina Strachan: Oh my gosh, no.
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's shocking.
• 1:27
  Tina Strachan: That's horrifying.
• 1:28
  Tina Strachan: Oh, this is gonna have to be a, um, yes.
• 1:31
  Tina Strachan: That's gonna be a monumental occasion where we do do that.
• 1:33
  Tina Strachan: And we might have some news about that maybe in our next step.
• 1:37
  Natasha Rai: Oh, I hope so.
• 1:38
  Natasha Rai: Oh, I
• 1:38
  Tina Strachan: hope so.
• 1:39
  Tina Strachan: Maybe we can put it out.
• 1:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Should we put it out to the podcast?
• 1:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Gods?
• 1:42
  Madeleine Cleary: If you have venue in anywhere, really we go anywhere.
• 1:48
  Madeleine Cleary: We'll go anywhere that does podcast live episodes in December where we really wanna do a podcast live episode for Christmas.
• 1:57
  Madeleine Cleary: So if you know a venue that wants to host us for a small fee, please let us know.
• 2:02
  Tina Strachan: Please, please let us know.
• 2:03
  Tina Strachan: And then you can all come along and ask us all the questions that you have about writing and publishing.
• 2:09
  Tina Strachan: And we'll maybe, hopefully have some, some advice to give.
• 2:13
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, or we'll just have lots of fun anyway.
• 2:14
  Natasha Rai: We'll get lots of writers in and we can sell lots of books for Christmas.
• 2:18
  Natasha Rai: That should also be a thing.
• 2:19
  Natasha Rai: We do a Christmas market,
• 2:21
  Tina Strachan: Christmas shopping, that's it.
• 2:24
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well, hopefully.
• 2:25
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 2:25
  Tina Strachan: So definitely let us know.
• 2:26
  Tina Strachan: Reach out.
• 2:27
  Tina Strachan: But um, apart from that, yeah, we're just gonna have a, a bit of a chat, a bit of a catch up.
• 2:32
  Tina Strachan: I really wanna know where you girls are.
• 2:33
  Tina Strachan: Are at, um, checking back in since we chatted last month.
• 2:38
  Tina Strachan: Um, and then I also wanted to ask some questions about editing because I think we're all deep in editing at the moment in various different stages.
• 2:47
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 2:47
  Tina Strachan: Um, as well as writing new words'cause we like to do a few different things.
• 2:51
  Tina Strachan: Um, so yeah, so I have some questions about that.
• 2:55
  Tina Strachan: Um, but first, you know, what I wanted to do, um, ladies, I don't know if you've looked at this, but you know, we use a buzzsprout, right?
• 3:02
  Tina Strachan: For our.
• 3:04
  Tina Strachan: For hosting our podcast episodes.
• 3:07
  Tina Strachan: And they have this really cool thing that I actually just love looking at, which I can't find now.
• 3:11
  Tina Strachan: And, and Tina is
• 3:12
  Madeleine Cleary: our stats person.
• 3:13
  Madeleine Cleary: She's always telling us the stats and Yeah.
• 3:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Cash and I just have no idea.
• 3:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 3:17
  Natasha Rai: I know.
• 3:18
  Natasha Rai: We just go, yay.
• 3:18
  Natasha Rai: Every time.
• 3:19
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 3:20
  Tina Strachan: I love, I love the stats.
• 3:21
  Tina Strachan: We know this.
• 3:22
  Tina Strachan: I love a spreadsheet.
• 3:23
  Tina Strachan: Um, I have a new one to tell you girls about later as well.
• 3:25
  Tina Strachan: Oh my gosh.
• 3:25
  Tina Strachan: So you get excited.
• 3:27
  Tina Strachan: Um, okay.
• 3:28
  Tina Strachan: So.
• 3:28
  Tina Strachan: But in our app, it's really cool'cause it tells us the new locations of like the, the, the last five new locations of people that are listening to the podcast.
• 3:39
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 3:40
  Tina Strachan: I just find it so interesting and so cool.
• 3:42
  Tina Strachan: It also tells you what they're listening to.
• 3:44
  Tina Strachan: So, um, shout out to.
• 3:46
  Tina Strachan: Our listeners in, and I'm, I'm certain I'm gonna say this wrong, you girls also, we also get points for whoever's actually been to this city.
• 3:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 3:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, I love the game.
• 3:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, here we go.
• 3:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah,
• 3:57
  Tina Strachan: because we're all quite well traveled, right?
• 3:59
  Tina Strachan: I, I get zero points for this first one.
• 4:01
  Tina Strachan: You have to guess where this one is actually, uh, Marson in earth trick.
• 4:08
  Tina Strachan: I have
• 4:09
  Natasha Rai: no idea.
• 4:10
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 4:10
  Tina Strachan: Is that
• 4:11
  Natasha Rai: in Germany?
• 4:12
  Tina Strachan: No, I know.
• 4:13
  Tina Strachan: I see where you're going with that though.
• 4:15
  Tina Strachan: Uh, it's in the Netherlands.
• 4:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, course.
• 4:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Madeleine Cleary: So shout out to
• 4:18
  Tina Strachan: our Netherlands listeners.
• 4:19
  Natasha Rai: Hello?
• 4:20
  Natasha Rai: Sorry.
• 4:20
  Natasha Rai: I said Germany and not Netherlands.
• 4:23
  Tina Strachan: It looks beautiful.
• 4:24
  Tina Strachan: I actually Googled it, um, and they were listening to your most recent episode, uh, Natasha, with Angie Faye Martin.
• 4:31
  Tina Strachan: Aw.
• 4:33
  Tina Strachan: Aw.
• 4:33
  Tina Strachan: For listening.
• 4:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, we had lots, lots of them today.
• 4:36
  Tina Strachan: Also listening to that episode was listeners in Worthing, west Sussex.
• 4:41
  Tina Strachan: Whoa.
• 4:41
  Tina Strachan: Anyone, anyone been there?
• 4:43
  Tina Strachan: I think I have been there.
• 4:44
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 4:44
  Tina Strachan: Not points for Natasha.
• 4:46
  Tina Strachan: You'll be done.
• 4:47
  Tina Strachan: Natasha, you're winning.
• 4:48
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 4:48
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, surely in Lancaster.
• 4:52
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 4:53
  Tina Strachan: Anyone been there?
• 4:54
  Tina Strachan: I've,
• 4:54
  Natasha Rai: I've, I've, I've been to Lancashire too, so, I mean, well, I lived in the UK for quite a while, so.
• 4:58
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 4:58
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 4:59
  Tina Strachan: Winner.
• 4:59
  Tina Strachan: Winner.
• 5:00
  Tina Strachan: All right.
• 5:00
  Tina Strachan: Well, has anyone been to Clearfield in Utah?
• 5:04
  Natasha Rai: No, I've
• 5:04
  Tina Strachan: been to Utah.
• 5:05
  Tina Strachan: Me.
• 5:05
  Tina Strachan: Well, there you go.
• 5:07
  Tina Strachan: So you do get a point for that.
• 5:08
  Tina Strachan: And they were listening to Holly Brom's, um, episode that we did.
• 5:12
  Tina Strachan: Excellent.
• 5:12
  Tina Strachan: Um, a couple months ago.
• 5:14
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, so shout out to all our listeners overseas.
• 5:18
  Tina Strachan: It's so cool to see those new cities pop up and, yeah.
• 5:22
  Tina Strachan: It's just great that it's, that it's getting out there, getting around the world.
• 5:25
  Tina Strachan: It's really cool.
• 5:26
  Tina Strachan: So that's my stats update.
• 5:27
  Tina Strachan: I'm not doing
• 5:28
  Natasha Rai: an international trip one time book deal podcast on the road.
• 5:31
  Tina Strachan: Oh yes, that'd be good.
• 5:32
  Tina Strachan: Wouldn't that?
• 5:33
  Tina Strachan: Uh, the dream we can keep dreaming, dreaming.
• 5:36
  Tina Strachan: But, uh, okay, so I wanted to check in with you ladies, see where you're at.
• 5:42
  Tina Strachan: Uh, it's been another busy month, and, um, Madeline, last time we spoke to you, you were, or still had another busy month.
• 5:50
  Tina Strachan: You've been pretty nonstop.
• 5:51
  Tina Strachan: Um, and the, the juggle of health and workload was sort of taking a toll.
• 5:57
  Tina Strachan: Um, we chatted a lot last time about, um.
• 6:01
  Tina Strachan: Uh, you know, burnout or the burnout.
• 6:03
  Tina Strachan: So how are, how are you going, are you feeling a bit better?
• 6:06
  Tina Strachan: How has it been?
• 6:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, it, the burn the burnout episode was very timely for me.
• 6:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 6:11
  Madeleine Cleary: I think while, while we're discussing it, I was probably very, very close to burnout, if not at burnout.
• 6:17
  Madeleine Cleary: When I said that to my friend, I think a few nights ago, um, at book club, I said, oh, yeah, I was close to Ben.
• 6:23
  Madeleine Cleary: She's like.
• 6:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Mads, you were at burnout.
• 6:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 6:27
  Madeleine Cleary: And I think, um, yeah, so I, I have been quite sick.
• 6:31
  Madeleine Cleary: I've just been, you know, getting repeat things, prolonged sicknesses, and I think that's a sign for your body to say you have to rest.
• 6:39
  Madeleine Cleary: So, um, yeah, it hasn't been great.
• 6:42
  Madeleine Cleary: And.
• 6:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, I think as well with the writing, I had this vision in my mind that the manuscript would be done and edited by the end of September.
• 6:50
  Madeleine Cleary: And of course now it's October, it is not done.
• 6:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, it's getting there.
• 6:54
  Madeleine Cleary: It's getting there, but it's not done.
• 6:56
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I just, you know, even when I'm sick, like I still keep pushing and working and I'm sure a lot of writers understand that the lure too.
• 7:10
  Madeleine Cleary: In patience and listening to your body, um, and all things, all the advice that Tash provided in our last, like, catch up on author burnout.
• 7:20
  Madeleine Cleary: So I really had to pay attention and listen to it.
• 7:23
  Madeleine Cleary: So it has been difficult, but, um, I feel like I'm on the other side.
• 7:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I've, you know, took a, a bit of time off work and writing and just yeah, had some.
• 7:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Just.
• 7:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Watching crappy movies, which I never get to do, and reading books and sitting on the couch for a bit and I felt better, but, mm.
• 7:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I mean, that's just a temporary measure.
• 7:44
  Madeleine Cleary: I have to sort of make changes now in my lifestyle, I think, to, to avoid it.
• 7:49
  Madeleine Cleary: But yeah, I've got a few more events coming up in October, and then after that though, it.
• 7:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Really nice and quiet.
• 7:56
  Madeleine Cleary: So I think I'll be able to Yeah, find some space.
• 7:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so yeah, if you are in Sydney, I think it'll, it'll be on the night, I think the day that this comes out.
• 8:05
  Madeleine Cleary: So if you're in Sydney, 16th of October, I'll be there.
• 8:07
  Madeleine Cleary: And then I'm in Ballarat on the Thursday, the 23rd of October for an event.
• 8:12
  Madeleine Cleary: If you're in Ballarat with Holly Bauer, actually, who she's gonna be.
• 8:15
  Madeleine Cleary: My in convo partner and then Dandenong Literary Festival as well, which is just up the road, which will be really fun.
• 8:22
  Madeleine Cleary: So I've got lots of like, fun things to look forward to.
• 8:25
  Madeleine Cleary: So, yeah.
• 8:26
  Madeleine Cleary: And then in terms of the writing, um, I have 17 pages left to edit of Oh, draft.
• 8:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, so close.
• 8:34
  Madeleine Cleary: So close.
• 8:35
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm excited.
• 8:36
  Madeleine Cleary: So yes, that's, that's pretty much where I'm What about you Tash, though?
• 8:40
  Madeleine Cleary: How has your last month been?
• 8:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, uh,
• 8:44
  Natasha Rai: yeah, it's been so busy.
• 8:46
  Natasha Rai: Um, and so I've, I mentioned it in my substack today that the time boxing has really helped me because, um, now I'm not as stressed when I don't get to something.
• 8:57
  Natasha Rai: 'cause I haven't put it in my diary.
• 8:58
  Natasha Rai: So if it's in there, I'm working on it.
• 9:01
  Natasha Rai: Um, so lots of prep.
• 9:03
  Natasha Rai: So last month we had the Emerging Writers Festival, and then this month, um.
• 9:10
  Natasha Rai: People in Newcastle.
• 9:11
  Natasha Rai: I'm gonna be books of the BOLO at Club Lan.
• 9:14
  Natasha Rai: That sounds amazing.
• 9:15
  Natasha Rai: On the 14th.
• 9:16
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, it's, so, it's in conversation with Catherine McLean, who's the director of the Hunter Writers Center.
• 9:21
  Natasha Rai: And then I'm going to be at Blue Mountains Writers Festival in Canberra Writer's Festival.
• 9:25
  Natasha Rai: So Canberra Writers Festival is first, um, and then the 22nd to the 26th of October.
• 9:30
  Natasha Rai: And then the uh, blue Mountains Writers Festival, which is.
• 9:33
  Natasha Rai: 31st of October to the 2nd of November or thereabouts.
• 9:37
  Natasha Rai: You gonna be busy has Yeah.
• 9:38
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 9:39
  Natasha Rai: I've got like four books to read over the next two weeks, so.
• 9:42
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 9:42
  Natasha Rai: I'll get there.
• 9:42
  Natasha Rai: I know, I'll, um, actually we were talking about this in our debut crew.
• 9:47
  Natasha Rai: Do you have to read, if you're on a panel with other writers at a festival, do you have to read everyone's books?
• 9:54
  Natasha Rai: I like to.
• 9:55
  Natasha Rai: Um, this time I, that's my, definitely my aim, but this time there are some priorities for me because I'm moderating a panel and, um, I'm doing a, like a two hander where it's just me and another person, or Steve Minot actually at, at Blue Mountain.
• 10:09
  Natasha Rai: So obviously we're gonna be in conversation with each other about our books.
• 10:13
  Natasha Rai: So.
• 10:14
  Natasha Rai: And to, yeah.
• 10:15
  Natasha Rai: Obviously I need to, I've already read his book, but I'm gonna reread it to, you know, have an intelligent conversation because I've been to events where writers have made jokes about not preparing, like especially the person, yeah.
• 10:29
  Natasha Rai: I won't name names, but yeah.
• 10:30
  Natasha Rai: Oh, so the interviewer.
• 10:32
  Natasha Rai: The interviewers make made jokes about, oh, I'm so underprepared, and I'm like, uh, this is not good.
• 10:37
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, that's it.
• 10:38
  Natasha Rai: Doesn't much confidence does it?
• 10:40
  Tina Strachan: It's a really thing.
• 10:41
  Tina Strachan: Doesn't say, isn't it too, that's being easy, but
• 10:43
  Natasha Rai: also it doesn't show the respect to the people who've like, given out their time and, and maybe paid money for a ticket to come hear someone speak.
• 10:50
  Natasha Rai: It's like, well,'cause that's who you're doing it for really, you know?
• 10:54
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Natasha Rai: It's fun to interview another person, but if you've got an audience that they, they are the ones who wanna hear something about it.
• 11:01
  Natasha Rai: Mm
• 11:02
  Tina Strachan: mm Yeah.
• 11:03
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Tina Strachan: Well, you're an amazing interviewer, Natasha.
• 11:05
  Tina Strachan: We know that, so I'm sure those events, I'm sure those events are gonna be incredible.
• 11:10
  Tina Strachan: I love the idea of books at the bolo.
• 11:11
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna start that here, I think on the Gold Coast.
• 11:13
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Natasha Rai: Do
• 11:14
  Tina Strachan: it.
• 11:14
  Tina Strachan: Do it.
• 11:15
  Natasha Rai: It sounds so cool.
• 11:16
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, because you just go for your dinner, like just book a table and you go with your book club or your family and you just have a great night and hear someone talk about a book.
• 11:24
  Natasha Rai: What's a bowler?
• 11:26
  Natasha Rai: A what?
• 11:27
  Natasha Rai: You don't know what a bolo is.
• 11:29
  Natasha Rai: Is that not a, I don't know.
• 11:31
  Natasha Rai: Is it a Victorian thing?
• 11:32
  Natasha Rai: I don't know.
• 11:32
  Natasha Rai: I've never heard like, you know, like Like bowl?
• 11:34
  Natasha Rai: A bowling bowl, like a bowling
• 11:35
  Tina Strachan: green.
• 11:36
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I don't, and it's like the restauranty, it's like the restauranty bit.
• 11:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 11:39
  Natasha Rai: like the bistro bit.
• 11:40
  Natasha Rai: It's
• 11:41
  Tina Strachan: so, yeah.
• 11:42
  Tina Strachan: Didn't
• 11:42
  Natasha Rai: have that in Melbourne.
• 11:43
  Natasha Rai: Maybe they don't have outside.
• 11:46
  Tina Strachan: It's too rainy, it's too many gracious warnings.
• 11:50
  Tina Strachan: Um, few got bowling greens, surely.
• 11:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 11:54
  Madeleine Cleary: I dunno.
• 11:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Out of the bolo scene.
• 11:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 11:58
  Madeleine Cleary: That's it.
• 11:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, we have,
• 12:00
  Tina Strachan: do you have barefoot bowls?
• 12:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 12:02
  Natasha Rai: yeah,
• 12:02
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 12:02
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 12:02
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 12:03
  Tina Strachan: Barefoot bowl.
• 12:04
  Tina Strachan: I've never heard of what we're gonna make you do next time you come up this way.
• 12:08
  Natasha Rai: Oh gosh.
• 12:10
  Natasha Rai: There were a few in Canberra that we did and they had bars attached to it.
• 12:13
  Natasha Rai: I don't
• 12:14
  Tina Strachan: remember.
• 12:14
  Tina Strachan: Yes, that's what it is.
• 12:15
  Tina Strachan: It's so, it's like the green and then it's like the little indoor bit where you, where you grab a pub meal.
• 12:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 12:22
  Natasha Rai: maybe I'm just, yeah, maybe I'm just tired and don't remember, but I'm, I don't think so.
• 12:26
  Natasha Rai: So maybe it's not a Victorian thing.
• 12:28
  Natasha Rai: I don't know.
• 12:29
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 12:29
  Tina Strachan: Maybe that's where we need to have our Christmas live show at the bolo it all, it's all going together.
• 12:36
  Tina Strachan: You've
• 12:37
  Madeleine Cleary: gotta say in that accent, at the bowl, at the bolo, at the, yeah, of course.
• 12:41
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm also asking this on behalf of our international listeners.
• 12:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, of course.
• 12:45
  Tina Strachan: You're right.
• 12:46
  Tina Strachan: You're right.
• 12:46
  Tina Strachan: Apologies.
• 12:47
  Tina Strachan: I don't know if they have them in Netherlands, barefoot, let us know.
• 12:50
  Tina Strachan: They def,
• 12:51
  Natasha Rai: they definitely, well, the Australians have taken it to the UK so they, they'll recognize it.
• 12:55
  Natasha Rai: Of course, of course.
• 12:55
  Natasha Rai: Maybe it's horrible Aussie thing.
• 12:57
  Natasha Rai: But anyway, so in Lincoln Shear and, uh, well, west Sussex, they'll be all over the bolos.
• 13:03
  Natasha Rai: Maybe, maybe, maybe not.
• 13:05
  Tina Strachan: But you know, with events.
• 13:08
  Tina Strachan: So you was saying like, it is a lot of prep, isn't it?
• 13:10
  Tina Strachan: Like Yeah.
• 13:11
  Tina Strachan: You know, people, you know, turn up to these things and maybe don't realize that there's a lot of prep that goes into it.
• 13:17
  Tina Strachan: So it's lots of fun, isn't it?
• 13:18
  Tina Strachan: It's a really amazing time when you get there and you feel, um, so privileged to be there and to be chatting with someone.
• 13:24
  Tina Strachan: But it's a lot of, it's a lot of background work, isn't it?
• 13:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 13:26
  Tina Strachan: For the, you know, hour or so that you're up there for.
• 13:29
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:30
  Natasha Rai: But I mean, I, I do enjoy it.
• 13:31
  Natasha Rai: It's just, um, when I said yes to these things, I hadn't fully realized that they were gonna be so close together.
• 13:38
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 13:38
  Natasha Rai: And of course, you know, I'm still working and haven't taken any time off work, so I can't afford to, so, and also I'm trying to write.
• 13:44
  Natasha Rai: I'm not trying to write, I'm writing.
• 13:47
  Natasha Rai: Um, so yeah, all of that is in the mix too.
• 13:49
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 13:49
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 13:50
  Natasha Rai: And I think, um, you kind of underestimate the physical, the physicality of it, uh, because you, you're traveling to festival.
• 13:57
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Natasha Rai: So it's not just the one hour that you're there for, um, you're in a different place, so you're sleeping in a different bed.
• 14:03
  Natasha Rai: You don't exactly.
• 14:04
  Natasha Rai: You get a lot, you are really, um, on a lot like a heightened Yeah.
• 14:09
  Natasha Rai: Buzzing.
• 14:09
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Natasha Rai: It's a sensory overload, isn't it?
• 14:12
  Natasha Rai: Absolutely.
• 14:12
  Natasha Rai: You are on, on, on, and, and it's not just for that one hour, it's the, all the social stuff afterwards.
• 14:19
  Natasha Rai: And um, and yeah, I find it difficult to like sleep after events.
• 14:23
  Natasha Rai: Like really difficult.
• 14:25
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  Natasha Rai: And not just festivals, but any events that I do, I'm just so wired afterwards.
• 14:30
  Natasha Rai: So yeah.
• 14:30
  Natasha Rai: There is a physical toll, I think, to your body that you can't underestimate.
• 14:35
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, that's right.
• 14:36
  Natasha Rai: But they're fun.
• 14:37
  Natasha Rai: What about you, Tina?
• 14:38
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, I'm fun.
• 14:38
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 14:38
  Natasha Rai: How
• 14:39
  Tina Strachan: are
• 14:39
  Natasha Rai: you?
• 14:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Tina Strachan: I've had a.
• 14:40
  Tina Strachan: Interesting month too.
• 14:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, I'm writing.
• 14:43
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I'm editing actually.
• 14:45
  Tina Strachan: So that's why I did wanna pick your, your lady's brains about your, um, your editing tips and techniques.
• 14:51
  Tina Strachan: But so it's, but it's otherwise been a relatively quieter month.
• 14:55
  Tina Strachan: I mean, we've had school holidays here, so we've been.
• 14:58
  Tina Strachan: Spent some time in Byron Bay and down the beach and everything.
• 15:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, uh, I went to, uh, Bethany Love Ridge's book launch for Harper Wells Renegade Timeline Officer, which was amazing and incredible and was also her 40th birthday.
• 15:13
  Tina Strachan: So happy birthday Bethany.
• 15:15
  Tina Strachan: Um, yes, that was really fun.
• 15:17
  Tina Strachan: That was really nice.
• 15:18
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, just got to catch up with lots of, um, lots of the Queensland, um, author crew, which was.
• 15:24
  Tina Strachan: Great.
• 15:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, but yeah, apart from all that, just I've been editing something that I realize now.
• 15:30
  Tina Strachan: I started writing two years ago.
• 15:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, oh yeah.
• 15:34
  Tina Strachan: But I mean, I also wrote three books in, in between that, so it's, it's taken me a while, but, um, it's, so I'm getting to that point now.
• 15:42
  Tina Strachan: I don't exactly know how many pages I have left Madeline, but I think it's not, it's probably like, um, only like eight.
• 15:52
  Tina Strachan: Scenes left to edit.
• 15:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, and then my plan was, um, my plan was then I was just going to print it hard copy.
• 16:04
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 16:05
  Tina Strachan: Give it a read through and then, you know, make any edits on the hard copy, fix that on the, on the, on, you know, the Word document and then, and that that was gonna be it.
• 16:18
  Tina Strachan: And then I was gonna put a pin in it and then.
• 16:20
  Tina Strachan: You know, do what I need to do with it and take the next step with it.
• 16:24
  Tina Strachan: Um, because I have realized now that you've got a, otherwise I'll keep tinkering.
• 16:27
  Tina Strachan: I could tinker forever.
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: Right?
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: And but's, one thing I have learned is to stop tinkering.
• 16:31
  Madeleine Cleary: I wouldn't even, like, I don't think I would even print it out at this stage.
• 16:35
  Madeleine Cleary: I wouldn't do that until I'm happy with.
• 16:38
  Madeleine Cleary: The overall like until my editors maybe looked at it and had and had some structural comments and feedback.
• 16:45
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I feel like I tinker a lot when I print it out and hard copy.
• 16:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 16:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Right.
• 16:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And I think the tinkering is not good.
• 16:53
  Madeleine Cleary: I've just realized how well I tin.
• 16:55
  Madeleine Cleary: It's so much with the butterfly women before I submitted to publishers, which I think is fine.
• 16:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Because, you know, but now I'm in a stage where I'm just like, oh, is that where I wanna put my time and effort?
• 17:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Because this might all be deleted.
• 17:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Maybe I'm got PTSD from our, my, my structural edits.
• 17:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, I know
• 17:12
  Tina Strachan: what you mean.
• 17:13
  Tina Strachan: To be honest though, I, I know what you mean.
• 17:14
  Tina Strachan: I'm not, I, I.
• 17:16
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 17:16
  Tina Strachan: I am printing it out though to try and pick up some bigger stuff, not necessarily the spelling mistakes and things, uh, which I will catch as well.
• 17:23
  Tina Strachan: I think I just need it off the screen.
• 17:26
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 17:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it's just blurring into one.
• 17:28
  Tina Strachan: Now I need it off the screen.
• 17:29
  Tina Strachan: I need it printed out.
• 17:30
  Tina Strachan: I need to sit down with my piece of paper and my, and my pen and my highlighter and um, just.
• 17:36
  Tina Strachan: Just look at it that way.
• 17:37
  Tina Strachan: And because there's a, there's a few things with this one that I've had to change over the course of time, like, um, which I don't often do, but I did have to think about this one a little bit more.
• 17:48
  Tina Strachan: And so I think there's some maybe consistency things that I need to check for.
• 17:52
  Tina Strachan: And I need to just read it in a flow like, like it is a book.
• 17:56
  Tina Strachan: I just need to read.
• 17:57
  Tina Strachan: I mean, it's a book, do you know what I mean?
• 17:58
  Tina Strachan: But read it in a, almost like in a hard copy instead of the screen, because it's just, you process it differently.
• 18:03
  Tina Strachan: Do you think, Tash, you're not sure I get that because that's exactly
• 18:06
  Natasha Rai: what I do, so yeah.
• 18:08
  Natasha Rai: I do, I write a draft.
• 18:10
  Natasha Rai: I don't actually go back and read over it while I'm writing it.
• 18:13
  Natasha Rai: I just write, when I finish it, I print it out and I read it, like you said, for the flow.
• 18:19
  Natasha Rai: And I literally make notes as I go and I will, and I refuse to edit anything.
• 18:24
  Natasha Rai: I just make the notes like, this bit needs this, this bit, but I just keep reading.
• 18:29
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 18:30
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 18:30
  Natasha Rai: Until I get to the end.
• 18:31
  Natasha Rai: So I find that really useful because then because it's printed out.
• 18:36
  Natasha Rai: Um, and I'm just making the notes of what I need to beef up or take out because it's not on the screen.
• 18:41
  Natasha Rai: I can't do that work yet until I've read the whole thing and got the idea of the shape of it.
• 18:47
  Natasha Rai: So I find that really helpful for me'cause of the way I.
• 18:51
  Natasha Rai: To my process, like my writing.
• 18:53
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Natasha Rai: Gosh, I admire you for that.
• 18:55
  Natasha Rai: That's, that's an amazing willpower because you'd be so tempted to just jump on your laptop and start tinkering when you come across something, you're like, oh no, I need to fix that.
• 19:05
  Natasha Rai: But no, you can't.
• 19:06
  Natasha Rai: 'cause you're looking at big picture kind of flow stuff.
• 19:08
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 19:10
  Natasha Rai: That's interesting.
• 19:11
  Tina Strachan: I have, and I mean, and everybody, everybody works differently.
• 19:14
  Tina Strachan: Everybody's brain works differently.
• 19:16
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 19:16
  Tina Strachan: Every, everybody's flow is differently.
• 19:18
  Tina Strachan: But, um, yeah, I like that.
• 19:20
  Tina Strachan: And I have heard before, uh, I think it was an actual editor, um.
• 19:26
  Tina Strachan: Speak.
• 19:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 19:27
  Tina Strachan: Speaking about what they do, and I think she said, you know, I read it once and I just read the whole thing and I'm, I'm not looking for spelling mistakes, I'm not looking for grammatical errors.
• 19:34
  Tina Strachan: I'm not looking for any other, I'm just looking to be like, is this story here in my head?
• 19:38
  Tina Strachan: Is it flowing in my head and has it, is there any major issues with this overall story?
• 19:42
  Tina Strachan: Cool.
• 19:42
  Tina Strachan: Great.
• 19:42
  Tina Strachan: That I make those notes and then I come back.
• 19:44
  Tina Strachan: Actually, it might have even been my editor that made, made notes about it and then I come back and she's like, then I look for like all the.
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: Smaller stuff, but if the overall story's great, that's cool.
• 19:55
  Tina Strachan: We don't need to do like those big structural things.
• 19:57
  Tina Strachan: But then I come back and I go through and I look for that smaller stuff.
• 20:00
  Tina Strachan: So it's almost like multiple different ways of looking at the same document.
• 20:05
  Tina Strachan: I get that.
• 20:05
  Tina Strachan: That's, I do that.
• 20:12
  Rebecca Grant: Hello, I'm Rebecca Grant, and I'm excited to share with you my very first picture book, Potion Commotion.
• 20:19
  Rebecca Grant: It's illustrated by the talented Nina Nil and published by Affirm Press.
• 20:24
  Rebecca Grant: It tells the story of Nel the Witch, who with the help of her dragon, creates a magical potion, but things go wrong when she makes a mistake with the spell.
• 20:34
  Rebecca Grant: And her mixed up potion causes a chaotic commotion.
• 20:38
  Rebecca Grant: A bubble rises from the pot and starts to trap a whole cast of characters inside of it.
• 20:44
  Rebecca Grant: And as the bubble grows, it traps more and more creatures, a mermaid, a ghost, even a giant squeezes in until finally, it captures Nel and the dragon.
• 20:55
  Rebecca Grant: When Nel waves a wand and pops the bubble, the true extent of the commotion is revealed.
• 21:01
  Rebecca Grant: But you'll need to read the book to find out what that is.
• 21:04
  Rebecca Grant: Potion Commotion is written in cumulative rhyme.
• 21:07
  Rebecca Grant: Building up throughout the story, creating a whirlwind of magical mayhem.
• 21:12
  Rebecca Grant: We've included a recipe at the end of the book for those little readers who would like to create their own special potion.
• 21:19
  Rebecca Grant: Potion.
• 21:19
  Rebecca Grant: Commotion is out now, and I hope you love it as much as I do.
• 21:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, Tina, you'll be proud because, um, so I wrote my draft zero and then as I've been editing it, I've been summarizing each chapter in a spreadsheet.
• 21:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Ah, yes.
• 21:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And noting a spreadsheet.
• 21:41
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm spreadsheet.
• 21:41
  Madeleine Cleary: So proud of you.
• 21:42
  Madeleine Cleary: You Excel spreadsheet.
• 21:43
  Madeleine Cleary: I know you would be, I've got a timeline in there.
• 21:46
  Madeleine Cleary: For each, each chapter what, what, what, what timeline is.
• 21:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And I also have the different,'cause it's a murder mystery.
• 21:53
  Madeleine Cleary: I have all the different plot lines in a, in their own separate columns.
• 21:57
  Madeleine Cleary: So every time it hits one of the plot lines, the red, red, you know, herrings or whatever.
• 22:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Or write yes.
• 22:05
  Madeleine Cleary: About what that is.
• 22:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Perfect.
• 22:06
  Madeleine Cleary: My gosh.
• 22:06
  Madeleine Cleary: And so then I can see, oh my gosh, structurally, I know this is cool.
• 22:09
  Madeleine Cleary: I can then see structurally.
• 22:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Where I've left it too long, like I haven't mentioned mm-hmm.
• 22:14
  Madeleine Cleary: A particular thread
• 22:15
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 22:16
  Tina Strachan: For a
• 22:16
  Natasha Rai: while.
• 22:17
  Natasha Rai: And so then I know I have to go and insert something, you know, and I can see the flow of the, the reveal of the information.
• 22:22
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 22:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I learn this from Ruby.
• 22:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 22:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, my publisher mm-hmm.
• 22:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Because she does this.
• 22:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 22:28
  Madeleine Cleary: And she did this for the butterfly woman for me.
• 22:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 22:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, she sent it to me and I was like, this is brilliant.
• 22:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I, I am gonna do this.
• 22:35
  Madeleine Cleary: So, so good.
• 22:36
  Madeleine Cleary: I can't do it for my draft zeroes because that's full creative flow.
• 22:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, and it's really helped me, like there have been so many plot points and plot holes and threads that have gone nowhere, and I've figured that out because I'm doing it.
• 22:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Ah,
• 22:51
  Tina Strachan: so yeah.
• 22:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:53
  Tina Strachan: And you know what, from that, you will, you might find the next time there's less potholes and there's less, you know, things that you've missed.
• 22:59
  Tina Strachan: 'cause you're, they're learning it and you're innately feeling it as you're, as you're going through.
• 23:03
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's incredible.
• 23:04
  Tina Strachan: That's so good.
• 23:05
  Tina Strachan: And you know, I even use that because like you were saying, yes.
• 23:08
  Tina Strachan: Not for your Dr.
• 23:08
  Tina Strachan: Zero draft.
• 23:09
  Tina Strachan: 'cause that's just getting the story out.
• 23:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, I've even used it for things like, um.
• 23:17
  Tina Strachan: If there's a thread of a story potentially or a character that I'm trying to, that maybe isn't beefed up up enough, I've even like when I've gone through, noted where I've put that particular character or noted where I've.
• 23:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, taken that particular plot line, even if it's a small one.
• 23:37
  Tina Strachan: And because, you know, sometimes in your head you, you think it's in there quite clearly and quite strongly, but then on the paper it's not, for whatever reason, you just haven't spent the time to put it down or you've taken it out through other edits or something.
• 23:48
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 23:48
  Tina Strachan: And just not realize that now it just doesn't feel like a strong plot line anymore.
• 23:52
  Tina Strachan: But if, but even just like ticking off, just even just basic, yes, I included it here, or no, I didn't.
• 23:58
  Tina Strachan: And also vice versa.
• 23:59
  Tina Strachan: Sometimes I think, have I repeated that?
• 24:02
  Tina Strachan: A couple of times like, have I have, I said this same thing too many times and just kind of worked it out, doing it that way.
• 24:09
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, it's, it's helpful.
• 24:11
  Tina Strachan: That's really good.
• 24:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Spreadsheets, oh my gosh.
• 24:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Spreadsheets.
• 24:15
  Madeleine Cleary: So, and writing things out.
• 24:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Handwriting I find hard are easy, like when I've got plot.
• 24:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Hold.
• 24:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, yes.
• 24:21
  Madeleine Cleary: I figure out, I just start handwriting the answer and then it just comes to, it just comes, it flows.
• 24:27
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 24:27
  Natasha Rai: I dunno.
• 24:27
  Natasha Rai: Hundred percent.
• 24:28
  Tina Strachan: Magic.
• 24:29
  Tina Strachan: Magic.
• 24:30
  Tina Strachan: It's a connection between the pen and the paper and your brain.
• 24:34
  Tina Strachan: It's
• 24:34
  Natasha Rai: crazy, it's
• 24:35
  Tina Strachan: wild.
• 24:37
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's a creative flow.
• 24:38
  Natasha Rai: I do have an editing fail story though.
• 24:40
  Tina Strachan: Um mm-hmm.
• 24:41
  Tina Strachan: Share.
• 24:42
  Tina Strachan: I I did.
• 24:42
  Tina Strachan: Please.
• 24:43
  Tina Strachan: I was just about to ask you.
• 24:44
  Tina Strachan: 'cause editing's hard, you know, and you, you know, you do it yourself.
• 24:47
  Tina Strachan: Look, we're talking about the multiple times that we are doing it, and then if you're published or you're paying editor, you get.
• 24:52
  Tina Strachan: Editor to do it.
• 24:53
  Tina Strachan: And they run, they do the whole read.
• 24:55
  Tina Strachan: And then you get, you have a type set that reads it.
• 24:57
  Tina Strachan: You have a line editor that reads it, your publisher reads it, maybe another editor reads it, you read it again 13 times.
• 25:03
  Tina Strachan: You read it in type set, you read it in a hard copy, and then it goes to print.
• 25:07
  Tina Strachan: And then sometimes though, you know, do you get, you miss something, you miss something.
• 25:12
  Tina Strachan: And,
• 25:13
  Madeleine Cleary: you know, um, yeah, I found that out today.
• 25:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 25:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm glad I, I actually, um, I said to the, sorry I had a, um.
• 25:22
  Madeleine Cleary: A message today from a reader and she, she said to me, um, loved the book however, and I was like, oh, good start.
• 25:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Good start.
• 25:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I found three minor errors in, in the text.
• 25:35
  Madeleine Cleary: She's got an eagle eye.
• 25:37
  Madeleine Cleary: And so, uh, she sent me a photo of all of the errors and she circled them.
• 25:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 25:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and there were things like, there was one where there was an extra is, you know, oh, um, there was one where I should have said.
• 25:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Unannounced, but it was written announced, so the article was missed.
• 25:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and then there was another one where it should have been his sister, but I'd written her sister, so, oh yes.
• 26:04
  Madeleine Cleary: And see, I've
• 26:05
  Tina Strachan: read your book.
• 26:05
  Tina Strachan: I didn't pick up on any of that.
• 26:07
  Tina Strachan: Well, I'm
• 26:07
  Natasha Rai: glad
• 26:08
  Tina Strachan: she should be an editor.
• 26:09
  Tina Strachan: She should be a copy
• 26:10
  Madeleine Cleary: editor.
• 26:10
  Madeleine Cleary: I know.
• 26:11
  Madeleine Cleary: It was amazing.
• 26:12
  Madeleine Cleary: So anyway, it was very timely because, um, in exciting news, the butterfly women is going to be format, which.
• 26:19
  Madeleine Cleary: For those who know.
• 26:20
  Madeleine Cleary: That's awesome.
• 26:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, it's really cool.
• 26:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's, feels like it's coming around very quickly, but it's gonna be so B format for those who don't know, it's the smaller size of the book.
• 26:30
  Madeleine Cleary: So there's the trade, which is the larger one, and then it's going to a smaller format.
• 26:33
  Madeleine Cleary: And they do that, I think,'cause it's more cost effective.
• 26:36
  Madeleine Cleary: So yeah, it's, it's cheaper.
• 26:38
  Madeleine Cleary: It's like 22.99 instead of 34.99.
• 26:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and it'll be released 31st of December at the end of the year, which is gonna be cool.
• 26:46
  Madeleine Cleary: But, um, I was able to forward those, um, errors to my, to the editor who's managing the B format and he's like, yep, you've got time.
• 26:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Don't, no worry.
• 26:56
  Madeleine Cleary: So he went and changed the type set today, so, so that's good.
• 27:00
  Madeleine Cleary: It was good.
• 27:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, really?
• 27:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Just like that.
• 27:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, cool.
• 27:03
  Madeleine Cleary: That's so good.
• 27:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Madeleine Cleary: So able to pick it up.
• 27:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I mean, like I said to the lady, I was like, oh, thank you.
• 27:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Like I'm really appreciative of it.
• 27:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Madeleine Cleary: But I also said that this is also proof that it's not AI generators.
• 27:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:17
  Tina Strachan: Oh wow.
• 27:19
  Tina Strachan: So I think, thank you Eagle Eye reader for I know on that and you know, there would be mistakes.
• 27:24
  Tina Strachan: I'm certain of it in every single book that's published.
• 27:27
  Tina Strachan: Of course there Isly, I've seen major ones like in
• 27:30
  Madeleine Cleary: some books, but I mean like, it's just it, you can't help it.
• 27:34
  Madeleine Cleary: You've and I, for those who don't know what the process is, like the type, you get this type set.
• 27:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Which is the final proof in A PDF.
• 27:42
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's not in a Word document, it's in A PDF.
• 27:44
  Madeleine Cleary: You're making changes by adding notes, like little comments.
• 27:49
  Madeleine Cleary: You, you can't make changes to the text, and so someone then needs to put those comments into the type set.
• 27:57
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's not like you can track changes or anything.
• 27:59
  Madeleine Cleary: It is really
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: difficult.
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: It's really, especially if you're doing like, um, full, I, I use a lot of commas and, and sometimes I like take'em out and if you're literally going in just to, that you have to zoom into that one little full stop or comma and then like highlight it, but you're crossing it out at the same time.
• 28:18
  Tina Strachan: But when you're crossing out a full stop that like full stops, it's so tiny, they don't go and see the cross out.
• 28:23
  Tina Strachan: It's, and my computer always has a bit of a.
• 28:26
  Tina Strachan: Meltdown when I'm doing it because it gets really slow.
• 28:29
  Tina Strachan: Because there's literally thousands of notes.
• 28:32
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 28:32
  Tina Strachan: In in the, in the song.
• 28:34
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 28:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 28:35
  Tina Strachan: Oh, yeah.
• 28:36
  Tina Strachan: So it's tricky.
• 28:36
  Tina Strachan: But I've heard, um, there's some people that still do it on hard copy, don't they?
• 28:39
  Tina Strachan: There's been some people in the day crew that have had hard copy
• 28:42
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 28:42
  Tina Strachan: And they, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:44
  Tina Strachan: Do,
• 28:44
  Natasha Rai: yeah.
• 28:44
  Natasha Rai: There has,
• 28:45
  Tina Strachan: hasn't it, Natasha?
• 28:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:46
  Tina Strachan: And write it out and send it back, I believe.
• 28:49
  Tina Strachan: Or scan it and send it back.
• 28:51
  Tina Strachan: Wow.
• 28:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:53
  Natasha Rai: I do love it anyway.
• 28:54
  Natasha Rai: So have you guys found any areas in your books or is it just me so far?
• 29:00
  Tina Strachan: I don't think I've read the full books.
• 29:02
  Tina Strachan: Well, I had, I don't know, have you read your books?
• 29:04
  Tina Strachan: One's told you no one since you've actually had a print one?
• 29:05
  Tina Strachan: No, no one's told me.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: I have not read my book.
• 29:08
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 29:10
  Tina Strachan: No, no.
• 29:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, no one's told me, but you know.
• 29:13
  Tina Strachan: Feel free to share it so I can fix it please.
• 29:16
  Tina Strachan: Um, but I'm certain of it, but I've certainly written, um, things for work.
• 29:19
  Tina Strachan: I write a lot of technical documents for work and we have a very.
• 29:24
  Tina Strachan: Well distributed technical document that I was in charge of doing the full edit.
• 29:28
  Tina Strachan: I pretty much wrote most of it, but did the, you know, meant to, you know, final sign offs and all those things, and it was three years later we had a new staff member and they read it for the first time and they're like.
• 29:39
  Tina Strachan: You know that this is wrong, and it's just like, oh my God, really like the amount of people that have read this.
• 29:43
  Tina Strachan: And we just, just, this completely new person with new fresh eyes was just like that pointed out, this massive error that none of us ever, ever saw.
• 29:51
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, it happens all the time.
• 29:53
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 29:54
  Tina Strachan: Fresh eyes, that's the, the key I think.
• 29:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 29:59
  Tina Strachan: So ladies, um, if you have one top tip then for, for editing woes, um, what would it be?
• 30:07
  Tina Strachan: What have you got for us Natasha?
• 30:09
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 30:09
  Natasha Rai: My top tip is, um, when you are doing your final, final, final proofread, print the whole thing out and use a ruler to literally go line by line reading every single word out loud.
• 30:27
  Natasha Rai: And if you find that you are reading really fast, you've gotta go back to the start of the sentence and slow it down so that you're reading every single word.
• 30:36
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 30:37
  Natasha Rai: I found at that late stage two or three errors and you know, as we've just said, so many people had read it like there was a character name that was wrong and so many people had missed it, including me.
• 30:53
  Natasha Rai: 'cause I've read it so many times.
• 30:55
  Natasha Rai: And, and when read it out loud, you can get a sense of.
• 31:02
  Natasha Rai: Not only the mistakes, but things like repeat words, which are so easy to skip over, like is, is you know, how you said there was an extra Is Madeline.
• 31:10
  Natasha Rai: So, um, yeah, that's my top tip.
• 31:13
  Natasha Rai: So save that till the very end or the very last time you can possibly make a change.
• 31:19
  Natasha Rai: And that includes if you are like, if, if it's not for a publisher and you're submitting to a competition.
• 31:24
  Natasha Rai: Or is submitting to a publisher.
• 31:26
  Natasha Rai: My top tip is do that just before you submit so that if there is something you can fix it.
• 31:34
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 31:35
  Tina Strachan: I like that.
• 31:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Tina Strachan: Getting down to the nitty gritty.
• 31:37
  Tina Strachan: What about you, Madeline?
• 31:39
  Tina Strachan: Um.
• 31:40
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, I
• 31:41
  Madeleine Cleary: agree with Natasha and actually I did do that.
• 31:44
  Madeleine Cleary: So I think my top tip would be um,'cause I thought that, I remember going through the proofing process and I actually, the man, my manuscript went back to structurals in the middle of the final proof.
• 31:57
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'd done the final proof and then it came back to me because they'd noticed something structural in it.
• 32:01
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I had to make changes in the type set.
• 32:03
  Madeleine Cleary: So then I had to go through another proofing process.
• 32:05
  Madeleine Cleary: So I was pretty exhausted I think by the end of it.
• 32:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and sort of tearing my hair out.
• 32:11
  Madeleine Cleary: And I remember at the time thinking the worst possible thing that can ever happen is for someone to pick up an error and,'cause I know it's on me.
• 32:19
  Madeleine Cleary: But the funny thing is, is when it actually happened, when someone did pick up these minor errors, I actually was like, oh, I'm okay with it.
• 32:27
  Madeleine Cleary: So I would say that.
• 32:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Don't.
• 32:31
  Madeleine Cleary: If you're a, a debut writer for next year and you're freaking out listening to this, it's not such a big of a deal.
• 32:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Madeleine Cleary: It's so not a big deal.
• 32:39
  Madeleine Cleary: No.
• 32:39
  Madeleine Cleary: So don't stress too much about it.
• 32:42
  Madeleine Cleary: I mean, do everything you can possibly do to pick up every single thing you can.
• 32:47
  Madeleine Cleary: And that's, I, and I know that I, I did that.
• 32:50
  Madeleine Cleary: But when it does happen, it's actually not that bad.
• 32:53
  Tina Strachan: So that's my tip.
• 32:53
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Tina Strachan: What about, there's a point, there is a point where you just can't see it.
• 32:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:58
  Natasha Rai: You cannot,
• 32:58
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 32:59
  Tina Strachan: And you're reading the story, but it's just all, it's like it's already in your head, so you Exactly.
• 33:04
  Tina Strachan: Reading the words like
• 33:05
  Natasha Rai: 500 times.
• 33:06
  Natasha Rai: You're like, please let this end.
• 33:08
  Natasha Rai: I know you are like, this is the worst book ever.
• 33:11
  Tina Strachan: I love you my child,
• 33:12
  Natasha Rai: but please, I never
• 33:13
  Tina Strachan: wanna see you again.
• 33:15
  Tina Strachan: Oh, so what about me?
• 33:17
  Tina Strachan: Um, I.
• 33:18
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yes, I agree with all your editing.
• 33:21
  Tina Strachan: Wonderful advice.
• 33:22
  Tina Strachan: Um, but one that I just remembered was something that was shared with us at a conference recently by an editor, and she, what she does is she reads it back to front.
• 33:33
  Tina Strachan: Oh God.
• 33:34
  Tina Strachan: She starts from, and this would, this is so clearly this is not for, um, for, uh, flow or structural'cause that would be weird.
• 33:43
  Tina Strachan: No, just for, if you're really concerned about.
• 33:46
  Natasha Rai: Um,
• 33:46
  Tina Strachan: can I just ask,
• 33:47
  Natasha Rai: when you say back to front, do you mean like chapter wise?
• 33:50
  Natasha Rai: Like you read the last chapter or literally sentence level back to front.
• 33:54
  Natasha Rai: Uh,
• 33:54
  Tina Strachan: page level.
• 33:55
  Tina Strachan: Back to front.
• 33:55
  Tina Strachan: So start on the last page.
• 33:57
  Natasha Rai: Oh, okay.
• 33:57
  Tina Strachan: Read.
• 33:58
  Tina Strachan: So, so her theory is, is that you are not just.
• 34:02
  Tina Strachan: Just re looking over the words and your brain is filling in the gaps.
• 34:05
  Tina Strachan: 'cause you know what's coming next and you kind of do,'cause you, you've got one page and so you kind of get it, but then you go back to the next page and it, the storyline's all modeled up.
• 34:13
  Tina Strachan: So the words should sort, sort of, kind of, oh, jump out at you.
• 34:17
  Tina Strachan: Like, it's like they can completely different.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: You can't.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: I like that.
• 34:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:21
  Tina Strachan: There you go.
• 34:21
  Tina Strachan: So you can do your ruler trick back to front.
• 34:25
  Tina Strachan: Love it.
• 34:26
  Tina Strachan: I mean, you could de sentence upside down as well.
• 34:28
  Tina Strachan: T just get everything.
• 34:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Catherine, you know, Catherine Collette, actually her advice was, don't use a ruler because you can see the words below.
• 34:37
  Madeleine Cleary: She suggested that's why you use a wooden ruler.
• 34:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, wouldn't, well, she, she just, just suggest a piece of paper so it just completely blocks out the entire page.
• 34:45
  Madeleine Cleary: So your own Oh yeah.
• 34:46
  Madeleine Cleary: You could do that.
• 34:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Madeleine Cleary: That that was her at top tip.
• 34:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Not sure if that's useful or not.
• 34:50
  Madeleine Cleary: I think I broke my ruler, so I did have to go to a page, like a paper,
• 34:53
  Tina Strachan: anything really.
• 34:54
  Tina Strachan: Just yeah.
• 34:55
  Tina Strachan: To cover.
• 34:55
  Tina Strachan: Just
• 34:56
  Natasha Rai: anything.
• 34:56
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Natasha Rai: Oh,
• 34:57
  Tina Strachan: that's editing.
• 34:59
  Tina Strachan: Editing.
• 34:59
  Tina Strachan: That's amazing.
• 35:00
  Tina Strachan: Uh, thank you ladies for your tips.
• 35:01
  Tina Strachan: I just wanted to have one last little shout out.
• 35:04
  Tina Strachan: Um, that this month is actually dyslexia awareness month.
• 35:07
  Tina Strachan: So, you know, especially with all this talk about editing and using rulers and things to read is sometimes that's.
• 35:12
  Tina Strachan: A tip.
• 35:13
  Tina Strachan: There's special rulers for people with dyslexia, but a lot of people don't know this, but some books are actually printed in formats that make it easier for people with dyslexia to read.
• 35:24
  Tina Strachan: So, um, both my books that are out, both the Wild Zoo books are printed in this format and you can get it at the libraries as well.
• 35:30
  Tina Strachan: So if, um, you know, anyone who's, um, has dyslexia or struggling to read a little bit, um, this can be helpful.
• 35:37
  Tina Strachan: So there's quite a few titles and you can check out your local libraries, uh, for them.
• 35:42
  Natasha Rai: Wonderful.
• 35:43
  Tina Strachan: Amazing.
• 35:44
  Madeleine Cleary: And we should also do a one last shout out as well to our Patreon supporters, our patrons.
• 35:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you so much for supporting us.
• 35:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, it means the world.
• 35:54
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, yeah, just a little special shout out to Christine Newell who has been on our podcast, and thank you, Christine has supporting the podcast.
• 36:01
  Madeleine Cleary: So thank you, Christine.
• 36:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you.
• 36:04
  Madeleine Cleary: See you next month ladies.
• 36:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Bye.
• 36:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Bye.
• 36:08
  Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to the book Deal podcast.
• 36:11
  Tina Strachan: We're able to bring you these weekly writerly chats because of our amazing patrons.
• 36:16
  Tina Strachan: Join the TBD family by becoming a member of our Patreon community@patreon.com slash the book deal podcast.
• 36:24
  Tina Strachan: And if you love the pod, please give us a rating or review.
• 36:28
  Tina Strachan: And don't forget to follow us on Instagram and Facebook.