Latest / The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast / Shedeur Sits with 'Arm Soreness' and Gabriel Continues to Struggle - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 8/3/25

Transcript

Shedeur Sits with 'Arm Soreness' and Gabriel Continues to Struggle - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 8/3/25 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Dog's Podcast with your hosts, Lake Renaker, Justin Charles, and Josh All.
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, Browns fans?
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to another episode of The Dog's Podcast, presented by Manly Bands.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Josh, all your hosts today.
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Coming in here to talk about training camp, really specifically a lot of stuff that happened yesterday with Team Rebs, Shador Sanders sitting out, all that kind of stuff, things got a little bit crazy in the morning, especially if you were online.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, all the news was coming out that Haitian or Sanders is not taking any reps today.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: What is going on, blah, blah, blah.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: All that kind of stuff.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We did get answers.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to go through that.
0:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've got Jake Burns from Browns Film Breakdown.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Join me here in a little bit to discuss that because Jake's been at training camp every day so far, taking notes, taking down clips.
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: watching, evaluating, learning everything he can about this Brown's team heading into the twenty twenty five seasons.
1:08
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1:13
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2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, like I said in the intro, I've got Jake Burns from Browns Film Breakdown, joining me today.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about training camp.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Jake's been up there.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You've been up there every single day, right?
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Except for one.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that correct?
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I tried to go every day.
2:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Monday, I couldn't because we had a babysitter situation.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Full time.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been cruising the streets up a I-seventy one from Columbus.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: As often as I got a buddy in Medina, who's gracious enough to give me a room for the back-to-back day so that I don't have to drive back every day.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I'll go up Monday tomorrow again and do as much.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just want to be there as much as we can before they take the road and I mean, they're gone essentially forever until they won't see them again.
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is it.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is it?
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Monday Tuesday Wednesday I think or Monday Tuesday.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They just have the fourth is the only one to open obviously they'll be there all week for their game prep and I think the media will get to see some of that not all of it but some of it but yeah they're going to start being hard to.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Hard to other than the games are going to be start you know being tricky to to process.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I appreciate you taking some time here real quick to sit down and talk to me about what you've seen at training camp.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I know he's been a busy week for you.
3:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get you out of here quick on a Sunday so you can enjoy your family for the day, but training camp.
3:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what have you seen up there?
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, we can talk about everything real quick, but specifically at the corner back position.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's everybody's planning to hear about yesterday from all accounts got a little weird.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I think during camp is kind of the vibe I got from social media and stuff, which should or not taking any team reps for the first time ever, then it came out afterward that
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a sore shoulder, so they held him out of the team drills, and then I think Mary K. reported, uh, yesterday afternoon that he actually reported the soreness himself during the individual drills.
3:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That checks out.
3:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that would check out.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's hard to know when you're up, you know, I don't, I don't, I just don't prefer to be anywhere other than up high with the vantage point to see, you know, gather information and watch everything unfold so hard on the sidelines.
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not really down there on the field in, in terms of like gathering that stuff.
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So so yeah, that that started to come on afterward and it does make more sense that
4:16
[SPEAKER_02]: perhaps that he would say it after individual period because it would be weird to report shoulder soreness and then go through the highest volume of throwing that you have an individual period so yeah I mean that that's sort of checks out to me but to backtrack it yeah it was it was strange throughout the morning we'll let let me preface it with this the day before there was a smaller number of reps for him anyway like I noticed yeah there the the the the like sheer breakdown of the three guys as can he pick it remain sideline does like
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's probably probably twenty percent snaps for Shadors, you're talking about forty five fifty five the other two guys, Flacco and Gabriel kind of splitting those I just he had he didn't have a ton of reps the day before where they did a decent volume of eleven on eleven setting and then some scally stuff too.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: and then the next day you're watching it like oh he's not even throwing it all so this is strange night and getting in the groups of all is not in the plenty of second and thirteen's like we are going to get to the point judge where it's going to be hey this is knuckle down time these are the guys we're going with and we got to get everybody ready for
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this third preseason game or this first game against the Bengals, whatever it is.
5:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And you start to dwindle out the third team.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I call him a. Why is all you others?
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just the guys who are not destined to make the roster, probably not destined to make the practice what's scenario.
5:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, that's going to happen.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But as I'm sitting there yesterday, I'm like, this is too early.
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We're way too early in the process for this to happen.
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So you do think it's like,
5:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I tried to cover this on my pod, like there's two things that could happen.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So something disciplinary, something happy is late to a meeting.
5:51
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't prepared in some way.
5:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And they, you know, are sending a message to him.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the first thing I could think of.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you kind of come off the first angle, which is like, hey, he's not getting reps because they're phasing him out and moving on.
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're down, can he pick it already?
6:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So that logically doesn't totally make a ton of sense.
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I understand no team in the league is really getting four quarterbacks ready.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There's certainly some teams that give the third guy some reps or like that would be pretty strange for him to just be done all of a sudden.
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So then you start starting in disciplinary and then you know, you kind of just wait and see you don't want to jump to conclusions on that stuff.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just a dangerous game to play.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So you learn about the arm soreness and a lot of people will be like
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: it's pretty weird man that doesn't make sense because he's not getting as many reps as the other guys and I'll just say like he's he's doing a lot of other stuff like he does do this post practice stuff he does throw a lot an individual period he does throw he does take advantage and do as much as he can possibly for if you if you really and this is tricky because they break into spent like every practice their sessions that you know the groups get together and go do so like
7:00
[SPEAKER_02]: during special teams period the quarterbacks will get together and go over and do some sort of like either mental or physical thing that they can do to continue to you know get those muscle memory based repetitions and and like so there's not like a ton of downtime for quarterbacks even though they're not getting physically abused at practice like some other guys but you know
7:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He's he did a lot of throwing ahead of camp.
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm put it this way.
7:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think some people are looking at this with like squinted eyes.
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like that seems strange.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why could you have a shoulder soreness as you with the guy who's taking the least amount of reps fair?
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But the difference between on any given day of Shador and Dylan or Joe and even Kenny when he was healthy is like five or six.
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like, that's not that big of a difference.
7:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I do think there's some shoulder soreness.
7:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there is.
7:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He did a lot of prep between rookies, you know, rookies sort of a mini camp and then OTAs and true mini camp right mandatory mini camp.
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like he hasn't been thrown.
7:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He's been throwing quite a bit.
7:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do think it's real.
8:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: not great for his scenario where he needs to be getting as much work.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to answer to say this delicately because like I'm writing on this topic today like he needs work.
8:14
[SPEAKER_02]: He needs to practice.
8:15
[SPEAKER_02]: He just needs he needs reps.
8:16
[SPEAKER_02]: He needs reps away from Colorado like that continue to push him in the envelope of offense that he's not comfortable with or he's not controlling and like
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: that's where this stuff is so important for him and it's hard to see him take a, take a full day.
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, you know, shoulder soreness any pitcher could come to the ballpark and have that is it can happen.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it did.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he's bowing out of the competition or trying to stay away from opportunity.
8:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you's got some shoulder soreness.
8:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just this, the nature of what
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: like the the perception of where he's at versus the reality is pretty wide right now and I don't think that helps and especially when like you know because I had to tweet it like during the third session I'm like he's not getting any reps and we don't know why and it would make sense because if it was before practice shots to put the coaches would have mentioned it like hey we're gonna make sure the day he's got shoulder issues they would have done that because they don't like the
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: conjecture business happening in the middle of a session.
9:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do believe that the way it went down is the way it went down, which is some getting out of tea or sorry, out of envy and being like, hey man, something's wrong here.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't drive the football.
9:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see.
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They got a day off.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That helps.
9:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But if, you know, if you're in the world of belief that Shador should be the guy and he should be starting at some point this year, it's not in the best place right now.
9:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the way I would say.
9:43
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11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and to kind of go to what you just mentioned about the perception of Shador in this quarterback competition and the reality, I mean, I've been saying this a lot on the podcast, been posting about it.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And Mary Kay, even in that article, I read said, you know, it's not ideal for a guy to
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, miss a day like you just said, when you're in the middle of a four way battle for the starting position, and I said, it's not a four way battle for the starting position.
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It should not be in that battle in my opinion because he's the only guy who's taken zero first team reps with the first team offense.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it is, it is the other three guys that they're evaluating for the starting spot, I believe, and then it should do it because otherwise they would be mixing him in more evenly with the other guys.
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, I think they're putting I have the emphasis on Dylan Gabriel and I want to talk about him because
12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You've been up there.
12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You've been watching from all the video clips that I've seen throughout the week from the reports from, you know, sidelines and stuff.
12:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It just sounds like he's not progressing.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe at the rate they were hoping.
12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a little bit of that.
12:18
[SPEAKER_02]: To close out Shador to your point, which was well articulated, I think if Shador was Nick Mullins right now, I think he's cut.
12:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I would think he's cut.
12:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the nature of where I think the reps have been placed for him.
12:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, just want to be clear that if they keep him and continue to try to develop him, it's because they have some long term vision.
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So the nature of what we've seen this camp to your point, which is fair, he's not getting first team reps.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He did meander into some first team defense, snaps, but that was really like a
12:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Pope a regroup like the defense will sub in three groups.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll have a D line group that rotates.
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll do D line line backers and DBs and sometimes the first D line is out there with the second line backer group in the third.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's like, you know, it's mixed in.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not true first to your defense.
13:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know that they go about it that way if that makes it just like they did yesterday get very serious you know a lot of organizations do like a Friday night light or a bigger sort of dressed up scrimmage and the Browns didn't but I thought yesterday the volume of team reps was
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: indicative of what they're trying to do, which was like, hey, this is the day before break the day before our game week prep hits here.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's really get after it today.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm expecting Monday to be rather light.
13:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're going to go crazy the way they did on on Saturday there, but yeah, I mean, Dylan is in the thick of it, man.
13:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, like,
13:49
[SPEAKER_02]: not many with fair perspective here third round picks come in get first team reps early and start that volume of that outcome is pretty low so we're judging Dylan on like can he come in and start right away, which I do understand why some people are like
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: He's very maxed out.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He's older.
14:11
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a ton of college reps.
14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And if he was going to step in and dominate and not dominate, but be competent, it should be quick.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that I would be clear.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be clear.
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say I'm a little disappointed in that regard.
14:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, there have been good moments.
14:27
[SPEAKER_02]: There have been some nice, you know, downfield throws here.
14:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the things that have caught me a little off guard is the
14:37
[SPEAKER_02]: pinpoint accuracy has not been where I thought it would be too many misses too many miscommunications too many I thought he was going to be there he was here type of reactions from him and then and you know like I knew the height would be a problem it's something he's going to have to continue to navigate now I say this a lot like
14:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There's tall guys at Ohio State that he has to throw against.
15:00
[SPEAKER_02]: There's tall his online at Oregon big guys like this is not like he's stepping on an NFL field being like, oh my god, these guys are giants.
15:07
[SPEAKER_02]: We play in the big ten.
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of big dudes in the big ten and eight played in the SEC and Center Center.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So like he's
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: seen big boy football, but when you get an NFL, everything's condensed.
15:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just tighter.
15:19
[SPEAKER_02]: The hash marks are tighter, which makes the field that you normally have a short side of the field.
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes it farther away, right?
15:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the spacing is a huge adjustment.
15:29
[SPEAKER_02]: There have been good moments for him.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: There have been things leading up to the last two days because Friday Saturday as I tried to articulate in a tweet and I know kind of a little bit of what you're alluding to there too is like they were rough.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They were really rough as far as like documentation of reps that's out there.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, not all of those are on him.
15:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You can tell sometimes there's a, um, a drop that happens on a, on a, on a fifty, fifty ball or something.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It hit somebody's hands.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But for the most part, I just, I was like, he's a little overwhelmed today.
16:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where's that going?
16:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are we throwing there type of stuff happening?
16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And the biggest adjustment for him as a shorter guy.
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: is going to be not throwing through windows, Josh, because like that is something he's been doing his whole life.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get to Oregon, Oklahoma, even UCF without developing an uncanny ability to find passing windows.
16:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have to throw anticipatorally almost at times and do breeze and the shorter guys, I'm sure Russell Wilson when he goes deeper in his career, maybe.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, Russell's a little weirder dude, but Drew Breeze opened up about like, hey man, you're throwing at times into blind spots.
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you have to know based on, pre to post, like, what is going on in that region of the field?
16:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're throwing with anticipation and you're throwing on a window in front of you is open and then closes,
16:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard.
16:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very hard to do.
16:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's somewhere I expected him to struggle and that has come up.
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing I'm a little worried about is the accuracy stuff.
17:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you have an answer and when you find it, he has not been consistently delivering with accuracy.
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see man.
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got three preseason games where you actually put the pads on and I tried to articulate this to these settings are favorable for the defense because
17:23
[SPEAKER_02]: a lot of these settings that aren't live like we're not I'm talking like real live run game.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: When you don't have that the defense can really play past a run and react late to run and still be fine.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Thought I'm up I can like you know kind of put my seven position where I could tap him on the button.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I coach I was there to make the tackle.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: a setting when it's not scripted against specific defenses.
17:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, when you get into the season and you're doing like, first team Logan's a scout team, come on.
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, this is typically set up in a very specific structure to help your offense.
17:53
[SPEAKER_02]: A, find confidence, B, know what the defense is doing, et cetera, et cetera.
17:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So, these sessions are typically tilted toward defense.
18:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of those reps that Gabriel gets is the two, or sometimes, you know, when should or is out, he even, you know, gets those three reps.
18:09
[SPEAKER_02]: They are going against the first team defense.
18:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So, like, how that rotates through when it's not sort of rigid structures, like, hey, the first team defense will be out there against the second team offense or third team offense at times.
18:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The first team offense will be out there against the second and third defense or pieces of of weight, right?
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this is where, like,
18:29
[SPEAKER_02]: this stuff about the quarterback stat tracking stuff, which is very popular for me as PN is, um, wildest, like it's just wildly misleading because you look at that and you're looking at what Shador has done and you're looking at what Dylan has done and you're like, all right, this is a pretty obvious answer and they're holding him back.
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, when you peel back that Shador is basically efforting some second team, mostly third team reps, he never sees the best defense the Browns have to offer
18:59
[SPEAKER_02]: That should be what he's doing, right?
19:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that should be what he's doing.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that's not to say he's doing what he should do where he's at, but the level of which the difficulty mentally and physically is in place versus a first team or portions of the first team offense.
19:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes going up against them with the second team offense,
19:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not the same.
19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not one and one.
19:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I think that's where the leading the discourse around Chador's gotten a little dicey.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So Dylan has had moments.
19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to see him with a real uniform on what it feels like in an NFL stadium for him and then kind of go from there.
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you were of the belief like, hey, one of these rookies are going to step in and seize the job.
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you were like,
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: This could be a DAC press got, Russell Wilson type thing.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not happening right now.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So Joe Flacco has moments of, you know, and I wouldn't call it rough, just moments of like, oh, he missed it.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But he does enough things well, still that he should be their starter.
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's just abundantly obvious.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's still a world where you can, you know, I've talked about this, the examples of success of these light round quarterbacks is so,
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: minimal but when you do look at some guys like like Brock pretty got an opportunity late in the first year and and really seized it's right click so someone on the sideline watching NFL games call it play calls hearing it watching it processing it I think that again like the world where you're having this fantasy where it's like oh Dylan or should or will be ready that's not that's not a reality right now so that's where we're at
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and with the, you're right, there's, there's so much more context than these added with the stat trackers and everything like that.
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think obviously, you, you put them out there.
20:41
[SPEAKER_00]: People are going to look at it and some people are going to compare, you know, this got to that guy.
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the more important thing if you're going to actually use the stats, which they're not useless.
20:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Do it individually, do it line by line and just look at each player specifically to that player.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, Dylan Gabriel just look at him.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going against like you said a lot of the first team defense, some second team reps, but he's getting those first team reps as well.
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's not doing great.
21:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: If you just look at his instance specifically and it's, it is worried some that they're trying to get this guy ready to start and he cannot hold up against our first team defense.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Well,
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: If they put him out there in a game, he's going to be going against the other teams first team, you know, the first stringers.
21:24
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22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: When the preseason gets here, which the first game is Friday night,
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I just before I get you out here, you're opinion on preseasoner expectations.
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm anticipating a lot of Dylan gave her.
22:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people think there's going to be more of an even split between Dylan and Shador.
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Shador is going to get his chance to shine and all this stuff.
22:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to give Dylan as many reps in the preseason as possible.
22:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do you think?
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they should, they should.
22:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I firmly believe.
22:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Flacco could use a series or two, and some of these, maybe they'll give them the first one off, and then the second game and the third game, they'll, they'll run them out there a series or two.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, these should be dominated and the picket thing is.
23:10
[SPEAKER_02]: cloudy.
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really talk about him.
23:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't really, I don't think that's viable option, but we'll see how they handle it.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that this should be predominantly rookie driven.
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you've given Dylan enough reps with your first team offense, which he has had, I would say,
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: of all first team reps, who can't maybe, maybe thirty percent have gone to him, maybe, maybe hair under that.
23:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So something overwhelming, but it's certainly enough that you should get him out early.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think he's good enough to play with your first team in practice settings, then you should get him out there late first quarter, early second quarter shouldn't be just mop up late, late third fourth quarter stuff.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas Shador is probably in that second half take over, maybe a series after Dylan is done sort of thing.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm expecting.
24:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we're going into this week, maybe Kenny's fully back after today and then it starts to get even kind of tougher to evaluate.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But if the cases like these three guys are going to be the guys going on, what is it?
24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: They play Friday or Thursday, Friday?
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm right.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Friday.
24:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Then yeah, there's definitely going to be a healthy amount of Dylan and it depends on, you know, also depends on should or shoulder if that is just a blip on the on the radar here or something.
24:31
[SPEAKER_02]: to a larger degree.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, man, that's the thought.
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Dylan, if he's practicing early with your guys, then yeah, man, he should be he should be getting meaningful reps out there with some of those guys in a preseason game.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I expect them to do that.
24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that would I would make the most logical sense.
24:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And like the thing with the with the tracker stuff is like,
24:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Most fans can't view it through the lens that you just referenced, right?
24:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is like setting Dylan against Joe, right?
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Or like they clearly have different intentions with these quarterbacks right now.
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not the same.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But the people who are, it's the people who are weaponizing Shador stats as a means to compare to Dylan.
25:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: that's not what's going on or actually doors kind of living in his own world out there and practice and that's completely segmented because if you put Dylan into the exact same reps outcome would be the same probably better it just it just would so there's
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some, you know, there's new ones.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard.
25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I think the only thing I prefer about it is that it just tells me how many reps a guy's had.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it tells me that's true.
25:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're probably adding ten percent because sometimes you drop back and you're not actually throwing or somebody, you know, you take a sack or they blow a dead or scramble out.
25:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I like seeing the volume of how many
25:49
[SPEAKER_02]: team set up stuff they've had, right?
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I would, you know, me, man, and this is something the Browns would do internally because they have practice, film, access, and, you know, the manpower of all of that is really tricky.
26:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even sure ESPN Cleveland cares to dig into the nuances, but you should have like, hey, here's how he's done in Scully, where it's significantly slanted for the offense.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's how he's done in team.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's how he's done in, you know, periods where they're down in the low red zone versus periods where they're coming out of their own, like, fifteen yard line sort of says,
26:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just a lot.
26:18
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot there.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think it's a very small part of the evaluation because what I've said Josh is like, we know.
26:28
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm there every day from a sort of like what's open to the public said, I probably know twenty five percent of what's going on, right?
26:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's just just viewing reps every rep, not highlights from social but like every rep.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Then there's people who don't go, they're probably like five to ten percent.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's like a healthy recognition of like
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, there's seventy five percent of things we don't know.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: How do they do in the classroom?
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: How do they do when they're up on the white?
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, hey, draw up this play for me.
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know you know our place.
27:01
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the check when we get cover three?
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: What's your process against split coverage and this like that's the stuff we don't know.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we're in this world of like trying to define that should or is being
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, screwed out of this thing.
27:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, how do you know, you use people speak so confidently about something.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they'll be like, bro, I've seen the videos and I've seen the track.
27:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, there's an insane amount of nuance that you just don't understand there.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's leading to a, you know, there's an army behind.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And like it just gets, it gets dicey.
27:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, okay, I'm sorry.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I am going to get you out here, but there's just that brings up another thought though.
27:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I hear what you're saying, a hundred percent and I agree.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I also can't blame anybody who says logically.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily trust this coaching staff to develop a quarterback or to evaluate the quarterback position.
27:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They've made some really oddball decisions at this position over the last several years and I just I don't blame anybody for questioning.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys actually know what they're doing.
28:04
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about that?
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's nothing about that that's incorrect in terms of just if you want to be a pessimist, you want to believe like the worst of this.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I get, I think Brown's fans should be wired that way, right?
28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't think that's unfair at all.
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing that I would say is that they're desperate.
28:24
[SPEAKER_02]: They're very desperate.
28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The entire organization is desperate.
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you really think they're going back to the coach's offices and all getting around the table after sessions and being like,
28:36
[SPEAKER_02]: guys, Shador is unbelievable, but I really think we should try to prove that Dylan is better than him because we drafted him two rounds before.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's child's play man.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They are desperate for an answer.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So Shador was giving them every bit of what they need to solve this, the mental side.
28:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's so much more than just dropping back stepping up, holding onto it a little longer and throwing a ball late in the back of the
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to know how to take the play from your head in the microphone and disseminate it in the huddle.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to get to the line of scrimmage and understand what your checks are in protection.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: What are my checks and coverage pre-snap that I'm going to decide which am I going left side or am I going right side?
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: There are an immense amount of just those pre-snap things.
29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: What's my X running?
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: What's Z running?
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: What's Y running?
29:27
[SPEAKER_02]: What's F running?
29:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I know all of that like the back of my hand?
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I know what the checks are?
29:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's my hot?
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They bring two off the right.
29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's my hot?
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: the amount of stuff a quarterback has to know versus what you think you know from a stat tracker and I'm not knocking that in a sense of like saying it's it's it's it's like the worst thing in the world but like that versus a clip you see in practice from someone on the internet in a stat tracker telling you something versus what is going on you can do the browns being the browns thing all you want but these guys need a quarterback answer and if they have one internally that they're looking at
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that people will not trust it.
30:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I get that.
30:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can not trust it.
30:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're watching somebody consistently every day die sub defenses that are doing NFL level stuff in your then saying,
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: can't do it, man, really don't believe that we should break off Dylan and Kenny pick it because we traded for him.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's some second shooter on the grassy, no little stuff.
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you just, it's not a realistic world.
30:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you want to be like they're not giving him reps and they are handling how to bring him along incorrectly.
30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That could be a fair discussion, but to pretend like this guy is ready now and they're screwing it up is just silly.
30:54
[SPEAKER_02]: They need an answer.
30:55
[SPEAKER_02]: The one thing that would be a blessing beyond belief, and I know you know this, but I just want to say it again, is if one of those two are the answer because it helps you
31:05
[SPEAKER_02]: work through the lack of first-round picks for three years solution next year which is having two of them to go after premium positions like another wide receiver or tackle or something of the sort like
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: They would, like there would be nothing better in the world than to have one of these two young guys prove worthy.
31:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So just like thinking the Browns are trying to screw Shidorah Sanders over when they're the team that actually took him and they're the most desperate team at the position is some, that's just a world I won't live in.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a realistic thing.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's fair.
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's very well said.
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So Jake, I appreciate you jumping in here talking about every well, not everything, but everything quarterback related that you've seen here in camp and all that.
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's just we could talk for hours about stuff going on with the Browns.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But thanks again, and then make sure you guys go check out Jake's work over Browns Film Breakdown.com, check out his podcast, go to the website, join.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want anything?
31:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll I miss in here anything else you want to
32:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That's perfectly fit.
32:03
[SPEAKER_02]: The website is where we're hosting everything.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's a lot of crossover here, Josh, we'll continue to get together, man.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's interesting time.
32:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There's three very fascinating preseason games coming.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's going to come quick and it's going to go quick.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So stay tuned and I guess just try to enjoy as much as possible, right?
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, man.
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So it'll, it'll, um, the real stuff will be here and it's a tough start.
32:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, let's just, uh, let's just pump the brakes and enjoy the moment as they say.
32:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
32:31
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
32:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, make sure you guys follow Jake because he's going to be up and camp again tomorrow and, uh, you know, bring in all the information that he sees up there.
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's good stuff.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot, Jake.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you.
32:41
[SPEAKER_00]: My pleasure, man.
32:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks again, Jake Burns for joining me today, talking everything through this quarterback situation guys.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's,
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's never, we're never lacking for drama as Cleveland Browns fans.
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, I mean, really, come on, you know, that's true.
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Every year it feels like there's just always something.
33:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially when you don't have an answer at the quarterback position and you're trying to shim your way through late round picks and maybe this guy can be it.
33:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Why saw I saw a post and I think it was Jordan Zerm on X.
33:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was great.
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I really wanted to quote it and he said, Andrew Barry has found his Cody Kessler in Dylan Gabriel.
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that is probably the most accurate way to look at this.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, could Dylan continue to develop and show out through these preseason games and really step up his game absolutely.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The most likely outcome is that he is the Cody Kessler for this regime.
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: The just trust me on this one kind of guy that just is average on his best day.
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Now again, I know a lot of the stuff I've been doing lately seems like I'm bashing on Dylan, but I'm not trying to.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing pretty much exactly what pre-draft NFL analyst expected him to do.
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not a highly touted quarterback in this class.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He was kind of lumped in after the top five or six guys that people want to talk about and even the top five or six guys.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Only two of them were ever really who I guess three were ever discussed really as legitimate first round picks.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Kim Worshador Sanders and maybe Jackson Dart.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty much how the pre draft season went if you recall.
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Gabriel was not even in the mix with any of the top guys after that, you know, the shucks, the mill rose, these guys.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The expectations obviously weren't there and I do feel like the Browns are trying to get him ready and it just does not feel like the response has been there.
34:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously he's got the processing and I think in the classroom on the white board kind of the stuff Jake talked about as well.
34:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Dylan probably does shine there.
34:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a very smart kid.
34:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he understands football.
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he knows the game very well.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're impressed with how much he knows the game.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But knowing the game in the classroom has to also then translate
35:11
[SPEAKER_00]: to knowing the game and being able to execute on the field.
35:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the hang up so far through camp with Dylan Gabriel.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see how things go.
35:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully should or you know, his shoulders okay.
35:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And he can get back to taking his, you know, a lot of reps tomorrow.
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We will
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep you guys posted on all.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you follow us on all the socials.
35:30
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35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So follow us.
35:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll keep you up to date.
35:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, much quicker to do a Twitter post to update you guys on what's going on.
35:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Then it is to drop a new episode of the show.
35:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So we will be back.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe we're going to do what we're going to actually do a live show.
35:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Or at least that's the plan.
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do a live show on Tuesday night.
35:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be on YouTube, X and Facebook.
35:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So jumping the chat, talk with us.
35:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be talking about training camp.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be previewing the upcoming preseason game against the Panthers.
35:58
[SPEAKER_00]: all that kind of good stuff.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Join the dogs.com if you want to play fancy football.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like one of the final calls for fancy football.
36:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've been thinking about it or you've been saying, hey, I'm going to do that.
36:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I just haven't gotten to it yet.
36:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do that anymore.
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Now's the time to get to it because we are going to close the signups here in about a week or two.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got leagues filled up.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting close to a point where we're going to have to pull a cut off.
36:21
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36:23
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36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again to Jake Burns, Browns Film Breakdown dot com.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Head over there.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out all his work.
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the dude does phenomenal work.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: His pot is great.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: His content is great.
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Sign up over there.
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow him.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: All that kind of good stuff.
36:38
[SPEAKER_00]: and everybody tuning into this show and following us on YouTube and the socials we appreciate you guys more than you know you make the show possible you really do and we do it for you guys for Browns fans and we love it so until I see you guys in the next one on Tuesday night for a live show finally it's been a while since we've done one from the studio so we're excited for that let's talk to you guys then go Brownies
37:05
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37:09
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[SPEAKER_00]: ISSA is the International Sports Science Association and they can help you become a certified personal trainer in as little as three months.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And right now you can get one hundred dollars off your certification when you sign up through our link, join ISSA.com slash dogs DAWGS.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, certifications are one hundred percent online, self-study and self-paced.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can study anywhere from your phone, tablet, or computer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the final exam is open note, open book, aka piece of cake.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Except you fitness nuts probably don't need a ton of cake, so let's just call it a piece of delicious protein bar.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And ISSA has the number one job guarantee in the industry.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you get certified and sign up to be a certified trainer with ISSA, you have a job guarantee or your money back.
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[SPEAKER_00]: ISSA has over ten thousand gym partners that have over seventy three thousand open jobs for trainers right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't need a four year degree or a two year degree.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just need your certification to qualify for these jobs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, what are you waiting for?
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[SPEAKER_00]: With certification this simple, there's no excuse not to pursue your passion and become a certified personal trainer today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Get one hundred dollars off your certification at joinissa.com slash dogs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You've wanted to make a change long enough.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's time to do something about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's joinissa.com slash dogs for one hundred dollars off your personal trainer certification.