Latest / Masculine Containment / 42 - How Tahmar Thomas Found Strength in Brotherhood While Caring for His Wife

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42 - How Tahmar Thomas Found Strength in Brotherhood While Caring for His Wife · Masculine Containment

• 0:00
  Welcome to another episode of the Masculine Containment Podcast.
• 0:03
  Today, I am honored to have Tamar Thomas, who was a member of both Container 2 and Container 3.
• 0:10
  You repeated, came back for more, Tamar.
• 0:12
  And I'm so glad that you're here to share your story.
• 0:17
  We did a lot of interaction in the second container, not so much in the third, but still a decent amount.
• 0:22
  And I'm really glad that you're here, brother.
• 0:24
  Likewise.
• 0:25
  Thanks for having me.
• 0:26
  Oh, it's my pleasure.
• 0:28
  So, Tamara, I think, you know, what's really important to men listening is kind of understanding what was going on for you before you joined the brotherhood.
• 0:38
  Sure, sure.
• 0:39
  As far as what was going on before joining the Brotherhood, definitely challenges that, you know, of course, every person experiences relationships and marriages.
• 0:50
  But for me, I would say if I had to narrow it down to one thing, it was probably the feeling of alone and lack of support.
• 1:00
  based on what I was going through, which was what I'm still going through, but it's super unique that it was something I really kept to myself because I didn't really expect other people to understand.
• 1:09
  So it was like going through this journey slash battle alone.
• 1:13
  So yeah, definitely feeling of the being alone and fear of people not understanding, which would make me just keep what I was going through to myself.
• 1:26
  That was really the main thing I would say.
• 1:29
  Can you share a little bit about like what was going on and just whatever you're comfortable with, like what was happening for you before?
• 1:36
  Sure, sure.
• 1:37
  So in regards to my wife, she was dealing with some unique health issues where in going to a lot of different doctors, we were not able to find a solution.
• 1:46
  So we're kind of going through it on our own.
• 1:50
  she was able to get some support because she found a group of women online going through the same thing.
• 1:54
  So she was able to find support from that perspective.
• 1:57
  But health-wise, things were not improving.
• 2:00
  So if anything else was declining, it just became to the point where, without realizing it, I became a caregiver.
• 2:07
  And without even knowing anything,
• 2:10
  Initially, what a caregiver is or having context, once you realize it's like, wow, being a caregiver is very, very demanding.
• 2:16
  And then especially if you're doing it alone without support, doing it by yourself makes it really, really challenging.
• 2:23
  So that's really where things got to as far as what was going on on my end.
• 2:29
  And it was just a feeling of overwhelm, of course, lack of support.
• 2:34
  Yeah.
• 2:35
  And then whatever support I was getting was very minimal because at the end of the day, you know, not expecting anyone to come save me or whatever.
• 2:42
  So, you know, whatever support I did have, definitely appreciate it.
• 2:46
  But that support could only do so much in regards to what I was experiencing.
• 2:50
  So I don't know if that answered your question, but...
• 2:53
  No, it does.
• 2:54
  It does.
• 2:54
  Tamara and I, and I know a lot of other men have, have been in time periods where their wives are, are chasing symptoms.
• 3:01
  You know, my, my wife was in that for a long time before we figured out she had breast implant illness and it was super challenging.
• 3:08
  What was it like for you to be in that before period to be that caregiver?
• 3:13
  Like, what did that do to your relationship and what, how did, how was it challenging for you?
• 3:18
  Sure.
• 3:18
  Definitely made things very tense.
• 3:21
  A lot of bumping heads.
• 3:24
  A lot of, I would say from her perspective, not feeling understood or heard, even though I thought that I understood and was doing things to make her understand that...
• 3:36
  I understood what she was going through, but whatever I was saying and or doing didn't necessarily signal that.
• 3:42
  So that's been a bit of a challenge as far as just being on the same page where despite doing things to show that I care and understand, sometimes it just wasn't perceived as such regardless.
• 3:56
  Got it.
• 3:57
  What was that like for the two of you in the relationship?
• 4:01
  I'm challenging a lot of bumping heads, like very frequently, you know, just not being on the same page.
• 4:10
  Causing, in my opinion, I would say a lot of unnecessary disagreements.
• 4:15
  I would say that's probably like the main thing.
• 4:17
  And I'm sure there's probably frustrating on her end thinking that I'm not getting it when it might, from my perspective, I'm like, I do get it, but obviously whatever I'm doing and we're saying is not, you know, making her feel, you know, understood like, okay, he gets it despite the fact that I'm pretty certain I get it, but just may not be, you know, communicating, you know, things in a way that she needs to hear it to get like, okay, he actually does understand.
• 4:42
  Got it.
• 4:43
  Got it.
• 4:44
  Yeah, it sounds challenging, Damar.
• 4:46
  So tell us how you found the Brotherhood.
• 4:50
  Um, the way I found a brotherhood, um, I was connected with you on Facebook prior to you launching the brotherhood and just started seeing your posts and, um, they resonated with me.
• 5:01
  So I think at some point, um, you may some sort of, uh, uh, offer to get more information and I took action and magically ended up in a brotherhood.
• 5:12
  Yeah.
• 5:14
  I love the magic part.
• 5:17
  Tell us, Tamar, was there like a moment in that before period where you knew something needed to change?
• 5:22
  Or was it really just seeing the announcement of the brotherhood that was like, hey, this might be able to help me?
• 5:28
  I would say both.
• 5:28
  It was both.
• 5:30
  Things were not trending in the right direction as far as progress.
• 5:35
  And just feeling like, okay, you know, what to do.
• 5:40
  Yeah, it was a combination of both.
• 5:43
  It was like not knowing what to do that maybe is divine timing where you started posting content that resonated.
• 5:48
  And it was a combination of the two, timing and timing.
• 5:52
  Yeah, timing.
• 5:53
  Yeah, the timing of what I was going through and the timing when you started posting in regards to that dynamic.
• 6:00
  It's interesting how many guys on this podcast say something like divine timing or intervention or something like that.
• 6:06
  It's humbling.
• 6:10
  So what you already kind of told us, like, you magically end up in the brotherhood.
• 6:16
  But just give us a little bit about that decision.
• 6:18
  So did you jump on one of our interview calls?
• 6:22
  Um, I can't, I believe so.
• 6:27
  I believe so.
• 6:27
  It was a little while ago, so my apologies.
• 6:30
  I believe I did.
• 6:31
  Um...
• 6:34
  Yes, yes, I believe I did.
• 6:35
  I don't remember the exact details of it, but I do remember that was part of the process because at the end of the day, you know, you wanted to vet and do your due diligence as far as, you know, who was showing up, who wants to get in.
• 6:46
  So that definitely was helpful to, you know, make sure that, you know, like-minded people were joining because, yeah, it was definitely...
• 6:56
  My apologies.
• 6:56
  Yeah, it had to have been an interview to group interview process.
• 6:59
  And then I joined, you gave us info, did orientation, shared with us expectations.
• 7:04
  And then from there, the decision to like formally join and then if it was for us to move forward.
• 7:10
  So something like that is how it happened.
• 7:13
  Well, I should tell everybody, you actually did this a long time ago because you were part of our second container and the third container that just recently wrapped up.
• 7:21
  So you've actually done this twice.
• 7:23
  Correct.
• 7:24
  Tell us what made you decide to join a second time.
• 7:29
  Let's see.
• 7:34
  I guess when you're working on something,
• 7:37
  You know, there's no way to know how long it'll take or how much time you need to work on that thing.
• 7:44
  So after the first container, even if I didn't join the second one, it was still better than where I was at.
• 7:51
  But you made the offer to join again.
• 7:55
  So I just took advantage of it.
• 7:56
  Yeah.
• 7:58
  I think, you know, based on my personality, when I'm working on myself or things, I like to keep working on it as much as possible or leverage as many resources.
• 8:07
  And with the Brotherhood, it's such a unique resource.
• 8:09
  It's not like, you know, you can go on YouTube or Google and just look up, you know, hey, find a, you know, whatever men's group for, you know, XYZ.
• 8:17
  So it was such a unique resource that I was like, you know what, since you made us an offer, if we wanted to join again,
• 8:24
  It was a no-brainer to take advantage and just, you know, continue doing the work.
• 8:29
  Tell us, Tamar.
• 8:30
  So once you got into brotherhood, what started shifting for you?
• 8:36
  Being able to see things from a different perspective.
• 8:39
  Yeah.
• 8:41
  I would say that's one thing.
• 8:44
  Also, doing the work on yourself and going within, you know, especially when dealing with other people, regardless of, you know, marriage, spouses, people in general, working on yourself first makes it easier to deal with other people, you know, regardless of the context.
• 9:07
  Because at the end of the day, you're in control of you, what you do, what you say, and how you say it versus with other people.
• 9:14
  So at the end of the day, if, you know, you're interacting with someone...
• 9:20
  they could be reacting to how you're acting, how you're showing up.
• 9:24
  So obviously, or in my opinion, obviously, if you do work on you and change, you know, what's going on with you, that should have some impact on the other person and how they interact and react to how you're showing up.
• 9:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:40
  What was it?
• 9:41
  So, you know, one of the things you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast was that you felt really alone and isolated.
• 9:46
  Did that shift once you got into the brotherhood and met some of the other people and saw what they were going through?
• 9:51
  Definitely, definitely.
• 9:52
  Yeah, because, you know, as a man, as a man, it's not natural to, you know, be vulnerable and share certain things.
• 10:01
  Because usually I think you've mentioned another friend of mine has mentioned it as well, that men typically keep things inside.
• 10:08
  And I think it might have been you and another person as well who said the same thing.
• 10:15
  Not to go off on a tangent or go dark, but the rate of suicide is typically way higher with men just from thinking that they don't have any options or anyone to talk to.
• 10:25
  They keep it in.
• 10:26
  They can't handle the situation.
• 10:28
  So they do what they think makes sense.
• 10:32
  Um, so it was definitely uncomfortable, but in a good way to just open up and be like, Hey, this is what I'm going through.
• 10:40
  And then seeing other people relating, or even if someone doesn't relate to the exact thing that you're going through, they're going through some sort of an issue where they may be, you know, experiencing, um, what you're experiencing, but you know, in a different manner.
• 10:53
  Yeah.
• 10:54
  What would that feel like for you tomorrow to go from like feeling like you're the only one to being around a bunch of men that are talking about what issues they were going through?
• 11:02
  Yeah, it was relief.
• 11:03
  It was relief.
• 11:04
  Big, big feeling of relief, especially the different breathing exercises you had us do, whether we always did one in the beginning of the sessions.
• 11:15
  And I think sometimes we would do different breathing exercises in the middle or throughout.
• 11:20
  So, yeah, it was very relieving just to connect with other people.
• 11:27
  you know, it wasn't from the perspective of like, oh, woe is me.
• 11:30
  Let's all, you know, group hug and cry.
• 11:32
  It wasn't like that, but it was just like, hey, you know, you're a man, I'm a guy, whatever you're going through, whatever you're going through, I'm going through what I'm going through.
• 11:40
  And, um, you know, we're all there just to, uh,
• 11:45
  you know, work on ourselves and get better.
• 11:47
  But, you know, you could do something like that alone versus doing it with people.
• 11:50
  And obviously, well, from my perspective, it's much easier doing it with other people and seeing other people, you know, going through their ups and downs.
• 11:57
  So it just made it easier to like connect and resonate and align with everyone else, you know, being there with the same end goal in mind, despite what everyone was going through, because I can imagine, you know,
• 12:09
  It almost seemed like everyone was going through something super unique, like no one was going through the same thing, but the end result was the same as far as, you know, everyone just wanted to see, you know, improvement in their relationship or improvement in themselves.
• 12:23
  So, so many different people were going through things, discussing, sharing different things, but...
• 12:29
  collectively, somehow it works.
• 12:32
  Like, I can't really verbalize it that well, but somehow collectively we're all, you know, on the same page in a sense of where we want it to be, you know, for ourselves and for our family.
• 12:43
  Well, Tamar, maybe I can help you.
• 12:45
  I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth.
• 12:47
  But one of the things that I share with men is that contain masculine energy.
• 12:52
  Like being with other men is one of the most healing forces that there is.
• 12:56
  And, you know, we do a lot of breakouts in the brotherhood.
• 12:59
  When you were in those breakouts relating to other men, do you feel like that had an effect on you or helped you?
• 13:04
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:05
  Absolutely.
• 13:05
  Because –
• 13:07
  I know the numbers were really high.
• 13:09
  I think in the first container, there were maybe like 80-something people or maybe even 100.
• 13:15
  The second one maybe had 80-something.
• 13:16
  So obviously, you can only do so much for that many people at once.
• 13:20
  So breaking out into the smaller breakouts, you know, allowed everyone to connect.
• 13:25
  And it was kind of cool where...
• 13:27
  if we had like multiple breakouts, which we typically did two to three, sometimes it was with the same people.
• 13:33
  Sometimes it would be with different people, but both ways worked because sometimes you connect with some people and you're like, Oh, that person was cool.
• 13:39
  It'd be nice to connect with them again.
• 13:41
  Sometimes that happened.
• 13:41
  And then sometimes it didn't happen and you just connected with other people.
• 13:44
  So both ways work, but yeah, it definitely helped.
• 13:48
  It definitely helped because I,
• 13:50
  With the whole group, of course, you were leading, but then within the breakouts, we were kind of leading amongst ourselves, you know, based on what you shared with us.
• 13:58
  So it was definitely helpful to get both perspectives.
• 14:02
  Nice.
• 14:03
  Nice.
• 14:03
  I appreciate that.
• 14:06
  What do you feel like, like now that you've been through the experience, what do you feel like is different for you now, Tamar?
• 14:13
  What do I feel like is different?
• 14:15
  I would say everything for the most part.
• 14:17
  I mean, let me elaborate.
• 14:22
  I guess mind shift, definitely mind shift has happened.
• 14:25
  Perspective has definitely changed.
• 14:29
  Awareness, just having awareness of containment, because I would say prior to the Brotherhood,
• 14:37
  There were times that I guess I was practicing containment, but really wasn't aware of it.
• 14:42
  But then once you have awareness to what that is and there's different resources and things you can do to, you know, be contained more often, you know, it makes a huge difference.
• 14:55
  And I had a thought that escaped me, but...
• 15:00
  Yeah, I think just awareness.
• 15:02
  Just awareness.
• 15:03
  It's like you don't know what you don't know.
• 15:04
  So once you become aware, it's like, okay, now that I'm aware of containment, if I end up having an encounter or an exchange, in the back of my mind, it was like the concept of containment is there.
• 15:21
  So it was like just having more awareness of containment and being contained
• 15:30
  to do it more often.
• 15:32
  And then even if, you know, there's a missed opportunity and a rupture happens, it's easy to reflect like, oh, you know what, I lost my cool.
• 15:39
  I could have done things differently.
• 15:40
  But just not having that awareness to begin with, I think, sets you up to, to, you know, not be contained as often as, you know, as much as possible.
• 15:55
  You know, I often share with men that a lot of the reason why we react instead of respond and part of the reason maybe we explode or implode and pull our emotions away is that like that was the examples we saw growing up.
• 16:07
  That's the examples we've seen throughout our lives.
• 16:09
  Was it like that for you?
• 16:11
  Absolutely.
• 16:12
  Absolutely.
• 16:12
  One thing that came to mind, too, is that.
• 16:15
  During the container, I was definitely way more aware, and I definitely have more work to do, but during the container, I was doing it even more aware if something was about to escalate, I would just immediately start taking deep breaths.
• 16:30
  So it's like I'm internalizing what's going on or what's about to happen before it happens.
• 16:36
  And then of course, if, you know,
• 16:39
  person does something that's triggering, just being aware, like, oh, I'm about to get triggered.
• 16:43
  Let me start taking some breaths.
• 16:45
  It definitely helps, you know, prevent, you know, ruptures or disagreements, things of that nature.
• 16:50
  So that was definitely something that I was doing, like, way more frequently that I definitely need to start working on doing again.
• 16:59
  So it's lifelong work.
• 17:01
  You know, we were talking about this earlier.
• 17:03
  It's like it's work that you'll do for the rest of your life.
• 17:05
  Yeah.
• 17:08
  When, you know, you had said that in your relationship previously, there was a lot of bumping of heads.
• 17:13
  There was a lot of not feeling seen, not feeling heard for your wife.
• 17:17
  How are things now?
• 17:19
  They're better.
• 17:19
  They're better, but still a work in progress.
• 17:22
  Sure.
• 17:22
  Definitely a work in progress, but they're definitely better.
• 17:27
  Overall, it's better.
• 17:28
  Not bumping heads as much or just me not taking things as personal when it's being communicated that, you know, she's not feeling seen, heard, or understood.
• 17:39
  So it was frustrating before.
• 17:42
  the brotherhood, but then after you sharing some things with us or even some of your posts online, it just kind of reiterates the difference in how, you know, both parties perceive things.
• 17:53
  So by having some more understanding on, you know, from the side of my wife,
• 17:59
  It makes it easier to not take things personal because at the end of the day, you could be trying your hardest.
• 18:04
  So it's easy to take things personal when you are trying your hardest to do right, to make things good.
• 18:10
  And then when it's not received that way, it could be frustrating.
• 18:13
  But having that understanding makes it easier to kind of digest and deal with.
• 18:18
  Yeah.
• 18:21
  I mean, I hope there's an answer to this question, but if we asked her, what do you think she would say has shifted in you since you joined the Brotherhood for the first time?
• 18:30
  Sure.
• 18:30
  If you were to ask her, I would say from her perspective, she would say that she would say,
• 18:45
  I would hope she would say that she feels more understood and she feels more understood.
• 18:51
  Yeah.
• 18:52
  Do you feel like you're providing that for her?
• 18:54
  Like you are understanding her more or, or you're, you're, you're providing an environment where she feels more understood.
• 19:01
  Yeah, I am doing my best to do that.
• 19:03
  Absolutely.
• 19:03
  Absolutely.
• 19:04
  I am trying to do that.
• 19:05
  And there is a difference.
• 19:07
  But like I said, there's still work to do.
• 19:09
  But definitely, because like I said, yeah, I just don't take things as personal as I used to.
• 19:15
  Because it gets frustrating, I guess, from my perspective to work on something or to do something.
• 19:21
  And then it's not being received as intended.
• 19:24
  So...
• 19:25
  It's a process, but like I said, just understanding the different perspective on the other end makes it easier to be patient as opposed to lose your cool and get frustrated.
• 19:38
  So it just makes it easier to – yeah, I'm having such a hard time.
• 19:45
  No, just – yeah, this makes it easier.
• 19:47
  This is personal stuff, Tamar.
• 19:48
  It's not easy to talk about.
• 19:49
  I appreciate you giving it a shot, man.
• 19:52
  Sure.
• 19:53
  Yeah, I mean, it just makes it easier to process.
• 19:55
  Yeah, it makes it easier to process and it makes the process itself easier to deal with.
• 20:01
  Again, it doesn't mean that, you know, everything's perfect, nothing's going to happen, but you're just better prepared so that, you know, if you do have a disagreement, we're able to recover quicker.
• 20:11
  And, you know, whatever negative energy comes from a, you know, disagreement doesn't linger as long.
• 20:18
  So we're able to like recover quicker and like move on, you know, to the next thing or to just move on with the rest of the day.
• 20:23
  Yeah.
• 20:24
  Has that made life easier for you?
• 20:26
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:27
  Absolutely.
• 20:30
  That getting stuck in that like trigger escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then trying to repair is super challenging.
• 20:36
  It takes a lot of our capacity.
• 20:38
  Do you feel like you've gotten capacity and energy back?
• 20:41
  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 20:43
  Because you could be working on something or I could be working on something and when a situation like that happens, it totally, like, it can throw off the day or especially if you're in the middle of doing something really important and then having a disagreement can mess with your energy or mood.
• 21:00
  And even if you have, like, the grit to continue working, you're not working at as high a level as you were.
• 21:08
  And then, you know, you're just...
• 21:11
  Yeah, you're just like kind of going through the motions and trying to get things done.
• 21:15
  Whereas, you know, when you're in, what is it called?
• 21:19
  When you're not just a zone, or even if you're in your zone of genius, just working on something you're really good at, that's your thing.
• 21:25
  And then you have a disagreement or rupture, it kind of can throw you off balance.
• 21:29
  And then it takes forever to kind of get back into that mode of getting things done.
• 21:33
  So, yeah, it definitely helps with that as well.
• 21:36
  Just overall, things not.
• 21:39
  you know, ruining a whole day or like multiple days and things are lingering, just being able to recover quicker.
• 21:45
  Everyone kind of, you know, gets closer back to being in a neutral state and then just being able to resume with whatever you were doing.
• 21:53
  Awesome.
• 21:54
  That's so good.
• 21:54
  I mean, I feel the same thing in my life.
• 21:57
  Yeah.
• 22:00
  When you look at your life now, is there anywhere else that doing this work has shown up or made things easier or made things better outside of – you've alluded to a little bit of it, but outside of your relationship, is there anywhere else you're seeing this?
• 22:13
  I would say, yeah, there's definitely a downstream impact with work and business as well.
• 22:20
  So definitely –
• 22:23
  by being able to better manage like emotions and energy, definitely able to like get more work done as well.
• 22:31
  Ironically, even though the focus is typically on, you know, your wife, I've kind of like noticed things even with my mother where, you know,
• 22:42
  I've been able to leverage some of the things that I've learned from you and my dynamic with her.
• 22:46
  And we, for the most part, don't have any issues.
• 22:49
  But at the same time, it's still the woman-man dynamic.
• 22:53
  So even sometimes with moms, things can get, you know, whatever.
• 22:56
  But even with her, which definitely was not expected...
• 23:00
  I can't remember which exercise it was, but one of the many exercises that we did, for some reason, my mom came up instead of my wife.
• 23:08
  And I was like, wow.
• 23:09
  So kind of started being more conscious of certain, you know, exchanges and dynamic in regards to my mom as well.
• 23:17
  So and I remember some of the other brothers mentioning, too.
• 23:20
  that sometimes it wasn't a wife, it could have been like female co-workers or other family that just the dynamic between themselves and that woman, regardless of relationship, you know, just improved.
• 23:31
  So.
• 23:32
  So you felt some of that too.
• 23:34
  Absolutely.
• 23:37
  I think, you know, as you were saying that, I can almost remember you sharing.
• 23:41
  And I think it was after one of the exercises.
• 23:44
  It was one of two things.
• 23:45
  It was either when we thought of a time that we were triggered or maybe the self-forgiveness exercise.
• 23:51
  But I'm not 100% sure.
• 23:53
  But I think you might have shared that.
• 23:56
  Yeah, possibly.
• 23:57
  And I apologize for not remembering.
• 23:59
  Yeah, no, no worries, man.
• 24:00
  No worries.
• 24:00
  We don't need to get into details.
• 24:02
  But I think, I mean, it's, that's, you know, that's one of the things that we talk about is if you practice masculine containment, it's going to spill out into other areas of your life and to other relationships.
• 24:11
  It kind of improves your life everywhere if you let it, you know.
• 24:17
  You know, if I, if I can ask you a different question, who are you now that you weren't before?
• 24:23
  Who am I now?
• 24:27
  I would say...
• 24:30
  I'm more empathetic than I was before.
• 24:33
  I definitely consider myself an empath, which ironically is a term that I learned from my wife when I first met her, which kind of made sense as far as how I would feel or, yeah, just how I would process things.
• 24:48
  But I would say I'm even more empathetic now because it's very easy to lose empathy when you're like frustrated or just upset.
• 24:56
  It's totally easy to just,
• 24:59
  Only see things from your perspective and not see it from the other person's perspective.
• 25:04
  So I would say now I'm like more empathetic, more understanding.
• 25:12
  Just a couple more questions.
• 25:14
  So if there's a guy out there considering joining the Brotherhood, what advice would you have for him?
• 25:20
  join.
• 25:23
  One word, join.
• 25:24
  No, but, um... You want to elaborate on that?
• 25:27
  Right.
• 25:28
  No, but seriously, um, no, it's a no-brainer, in all honesty.
• 25:33
  Um, you know, especially, and I think you've had some other interviews or other podcasts where guys mention, like, Red Pill content, and, um, I used to consume some of it, because some of it did resonate with me, but it's so surface-level that, um,
• 25:48
  Like, it's super, super surface level.
• 25:50
  And, like, with, you know, the Brotherhood and what you're doing, you go super deep.
• 25:55
  It's like, you know, I have a tech background.
• 25:57
  So, you know, when you work in tech, there's, like, root cause analysis.
• 26:01
  So, you know, even when my first...
• 26:05
  tech job, tech support job, you know, 30 years ago, you know, if someone is not that good at troubleshooting and they're just looking at their surface level issues, it takes them way longer to like solve that call.
• 26:16
  Whereas if you have a lot of perspective and you look at the root, you know, you're able to like solve those issues quicker.
• 26:22
  So with, you know, what you're sharing, it just helps you go so deep that like literally everything else, you know, is irrelevant.
• 26:31
  And the irony too,
• 26:35
  There's a lot of content or resources or whatever in regards to relationships by people who are like either not in one or they're not in a good one.
• 26:43
  And, you know, so that's that's the thing.
• 26:47
  And I know with you, you know, we were connected before the brotherhood.
• 26:51
  and I noticed you did use to post a lot of content, you know, from your former life and, you know, business coaching, then I'm not on Facebook as often.
• 26:57
  But then when I am, I did notice, like, I didn't see you for a while.
• 27:00
  And I think part of your story was you took like a two-year hiatus to work on you and your relationship.
• 27:06
  And you went through your journey of consuming any and everything and to come to the realization of, you know, what you're doing now.
• 27:14
  And it makes sense because, you know,
• 27:17
  It's definitely not one size fits all.
• 27:18
  And I'm kind of like that too.
• 27:19
  Like when I'm obsessed with fixing something, I'll consume a lot of resources from different perspectives, things that contradict, things that align.
• 27:28
  And then I'll just come to my own conclusion on what I think makes sense based on looking at everything.
• 27:33
  And I,
• 27:34
  You know, I think you did that for like two years, and it definitely shows in the group because I remember one person in the last group that I don't remember exactly what he does, but it has a little bit of overlap with what you're doing.
• 27:51
  And even he later on mentioned...
• 27:57
  doing something your way and it was like i can't remember exactly what it was my my apologies but he had like a really good experience and in the beginning it seemed like oh i kind of do this too but then on the either later that on that call or on the next call he mentioned like wow i had this crazy experience where i did it based on your input and recommendation and i had this like crazy um
• 28:20
  you know, revelation and experience or whatever.
• 28:22
  So it just shows that, um, you didn't like just wake up out of nowhere and like make something up.
• 28:28
  You literally, I, I legit remember you disappearing from Facebook and I looked you up and I'm like, man, did he unfriend me or something?
• 28:35
  Yeah.
• 28:37
  I looked you up and then, yeah, it was just a moment where you just did not post.
• 28:41
  And then obviously once you came back on, you explained what you went through your journey and what you were doing.
• 28:46
  And it totally shows in the Brotherhood because there's definitely not something that could be just slapped together, you know, especially in the.
• 28:55
  quote-unquote coaching space.
• 28:56
  There are people out there doing things just to make a quick dollar, and that definitely was not the case.
• 29:01
  Like, you went through it, you shared how, you know, you almost lost your marriage, and you worked on you, and what you went through, this and that.
• 29:08
  So it's...
• 29:11
  to my knowledge, there's really no other resource and community out there like it because it's unique to what you went through and also unique to all the energy and effort that you put into putting this together.
• 29:23
  And it is definitely a testament to your work because I swear, like let's say there was an average of 80 people in both containers that I was in.
• 29:33
  Everyone had a different situation.
• 29:36
  Everyone had a totally different.
• 29:38
  Yeah.
• 29:39
  Totally, totally different.
• 29:40
  So yeah,
• 29:42
  There's no way I could fathom, like, all right, get 10 guys together going through 10 different things and have, like, one, you know, thing, resource or whatever that can help every person individually.
• 29:53
  And then somehow, I don't know how you're able to pull that off, but every single person was going through something totally different and unique.
• 30:01
  But in us working together...
• 30:05
  There was a camaraderie.
• 30:06
  You know, it's almost like, you know, you're in the military and, you know, you're in the field, but you're all, you know, going through the same battle with the same end result.
• 30:15
  Everyone had individual battles.
• 30:17
  Like, I cannot recall one situation being exactly like another one.
• 30:23
  But despite that.
• 30:24
  You know, all the exercises you had us do, the breakouts, everyone was able to help each other.
• 30:29
  So it definitely started with you helping us, but then you also put us in position to be able to, you know, help each other.
• 30:36
  Yeah.
• 30:36
  Yeah, I think that's the most important part.
• 30:38
  Like I always tell people, I'm a student learning right along with everybody else.
• 30:42
  It takes a lot of humility to say that, man.
• 30:45
  It takes so much, even despite what you did and what you've done, for you to say I'm a student of learning with you guys, that just shows your character because, as you know, in the coaching space and online, there's just a lot of non-genuine people that are literally...
• 31:02
  just selling whatever to make a buck.
• 31:04
  And that definitely was not the energy that you gave off at all.
• 31:07
  Just, just you being humble enough to say that you're learning with us is like, you know, humbling, you know, in itself.
• 31:13
  Well, you know, tomorrow, I mean, I, I'm sure you saw it in the brotherhood, like every week something new happens and you were in two containers and you saw the evolution from container two to container three.
• 31:24
  It was a huge difference, you know?
• 31:26
  And so for me, um,
• 31:30
  I don't say that casually.
• 31:31
  I think one of the most important things in the relationship space is that you never know everything.
• 31:37
  And I'm committed to learning and continuing to keep an open mind and open perspective.
• 31:43
  I have a lot of conviction around what I do.
• 31:46
  But I don't create certainty because that cuts everything else off and it cuts off learning.
• 31:49
  And so it's conviction around what we're doing because I know that it works, but always open to seeing what else is available and what else could shift things in the right direction.
• 31:59
  But I really appreciate the kind words, brother.
• 32:01
  Sure, sure.
• 32:01
  No, I appreciate you.
• 32:02
  Like I said, it's something that's so unique that it's really hard to put into words how you can help so many people going through so many different things.
• 32:14
  And then the end result is like everyone's making progress like in their own way.
• 32:19
  So that's really cool.
• 32:22
  Thanks, man.
• 32:22
  I appreciate that.
• 32:24
  Is there anything I missed or anything else you want to share?
• 32:28
  Let's see.
• 32:32
  Not really, but again, I can just really reiterate that, yeah, regardless of what someone is going through, joining the Brotherhood was huge.
• 32:41
  You know, I can even share a funny little story where the first container that I was in, I guess, number two, we started with a Telegram group.
• 32:50
  And yeah.
• 32:51
  Everyone's super, super active and you responded to like every message.
• 32:56
  I've been in a lot of groups where the person who's, you know, leading or driving, you know, the business is not responsible or they have like VAs.
• 33:04
  You answered everything.
• 33:06
  And sometimes instead of just replying to a message, you recorded a video, which helped, you know, others who may have been going through something similar.
• 33:14
  So that was really, really great.
• 33:17
  So.
• 33:18
  What ended up happening was when I wanted to open up about the unique situation that I was going through, I'm trying my best to make it as concise as possible because, you know, every app has like a character limit.
• 33:31
  So I'm in Telegram and I hit the limit.
• 33:33
  I'm like, damn, you know, so I was like, you know what?
• 33:37
  I'm going to have to do this in a Google Doc.
• 33:40
  And the Google Doc ended up becoming like three, maybe four pages because it's like I'm fully aware of context and not giving too much detail.
• 33:49
  But I felt like in order for anyone to understand what I was going through, certain details, I just didn't want to leave out.
• 33:56
  So anyways, long story short, it's like a three, four page Google Doc.
• 34:00
  I think it could have even been.
• 34:03
  double or triple in length, but I was able to get it at three or four pages.
• 34:07
  And like, you read the whole thing.
• 34:08
  I was like, damn.
• 34:09
  And then you responded.
• 34:10
  And then another, you know, brother as well read.
• 34:13
  I'm sure a few people read, but, you know, one person in particular reached out to me just to show support.
• 34:19
  Like, man, I feel you.
• 34:20
  Sorry for what you're going through, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:22
  And so, yeah, that was like a funny moment for me.
• 34:26
  Not funny, but also satisfying that I was kind of able to.
• 34:30
  get it all out and write it.
• 34:32
  And as someone looked at it and then showed support and was able to, you know, even though you may not have had the exact answers, I don't think anybody does, but still going through the container, uh,
• 34:47
  Brotherhood, the breathing exercises, just going through that overall just made a huge impact and difference regardless.
• 34:54
  So back to your question, you know, if anyone is debating whether or not to join, it's a no brainer because like I said, I don't know how you do it.
• 35:01
  But everybody was going through something different.
• 35:04
  And regardless of what everyone was going through, it still worked.
• 35:09
  Like whatever you put together, what you had us do, the exercises, the breakouts, like it works.
• 35:17
  you end up coming out, you know, a bitter man on the other end.
• 35:21
  Tamar, thank you so much, brother.
• 35:23
  I appreciate you sharing so vulnerably, so openly, talking us through your experience.
• 35:29
  I think men are going to find it relatable.
• 35:32
  And if you're a man who's watching this and you relate to anything that Tamar brought up and you don't want to do this work on your own, I would suggest you don't.
• 35:42
  you don't have to.
• 35:43
  It'd be an honor to walk this path with you.
• 35:45
  You can go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com.
• 35:48
  We are in open enrollment for our fourth container interviews right now as we release this podcast.
• 35:54
  I'd love to see you on a live call.
• 35:56
  I'd love to meet you personally, answer your questions, and have you in the next container.
• 36:00
  Thebrotherhoodsociety.com.
• 36:02
  Thanks for being here today, and thanks again tomorrow.
• 36:05
  Anytime.
• 36:05
  Thanks, Alex.