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28 Years Later: The Bone Temple (2026) – Hope-punk heavy metal · CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast

0:34
[SPEAKER_02]: those sweet, sweet sounds of 28 days later.
0:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've watched the movie we're talking about today, 28 years later, the bone temple, then you know that we go into the credits with those very sounds and you know what that means for part three.
0:52
[SPEAKER_02]: coming up when we don't know.
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But the good news is that today March 31st, 28 years later the Bone Temple part 2 in this sequel trilogy has dropped on Netflix and Riley and I have gotten together to talk about it in this special cinema hounds horror hounds crossover episode.
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So welcome!
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We are the Lower Hounds, Your Guides, Desambi Medicine and Apocalyptic Showmanship.
1:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Malisha, and I'm here again with Riley, who joined us for the last two episodes.
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Jean and I did talking about this series.
1:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back, Riley.
1:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I've been following as always what you've been up to on your YouTube channel.
1:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been a busy bee.
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to share some of your recent videos that you've been covering there?
1:44
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely.
1:46
[SPEAKER_08]: So I recently did a video just a little review of Anaconda, which was a very interesting movie to say the least.
2:00
[SPEAKER_08]: One of my biggest videos recently was a review on Borderlands 4.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're glad that you can take time away from that to come back and we can get back into 28 years later.
2:21
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, of course, our second public third total 28 world.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we decide to call this universe?
2:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: The 28th.
2:33
[SPEAKER_08]: The 28th.
2:34
[SPEAKER_08]: I feel like the 28th sounds right.
2:36
[SPEAKER_02]: The 28th Zoom Beverse.
2:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, for anyone who hasn't, I recommend checking out our 28 years later episode, which I will link directly in the show notes, and there's also an additional episode before that covering 28 days and weeks together.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Sean couldn't join today because for personal reasons, but he did check in and shared his thoughts, so we'll listen to what he had to say in just a minute.
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to, as usual, start spoiler free.
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: There will be a spoiler warning before the break, however, for this spoiler free part, we are considering the first movie 28 years later fair game.
3:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't want any spoilers at all, then I recommend going back to that episode where we have a spoiler free intro.
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But here, yeah, we're going to assume that you've already seen it or you don't mind it being spoiled.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And then after a spoiler warning, we will be getting into a breakdown of the movie set up by set up and Talk about all the things and why Ray finds deserves an Oscar.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm never going to shut up about this Absolutely
3:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, just to set this up, this film, the second film in the 28 years later trilogy, is the bone temple, fear, is the new faith.
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Kelsen finds himself in a shocking new relationship with consequences that could change the world as they know it, and spikes encounter with Jimmy Crystal becomes a nightmare.
4:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't escape.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This was an hour and forty nine minutes long, so six minutes shorter than part one.
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The stars are we have Alfie Williams back as young Spike, Jack O'Connell, back as Jimmy from the, we'll talk about whether this redeemed that post credit.
4:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Aaron Kelly men as another one of the Jimmy's rave finds for his should be Oscar winning roll.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure what Jimmy says, Chi or Chi, Lewis Perry, but he plays Sam Sam.
4:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm not sure I'm the pregnancy.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So Riley, what is your spoiler free hashtag?
5:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You were questioning the last scene of the prior film.
5:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You and many, many other people did the way they used the Jimmy's in this film, redeem that for you.
5:15
[SPEAKER_08]: I think overall like on the whole as a whole piece, yes, I think as like as far as like analyzing the first 28 years later as like its own movie kind of still feels like tonally like really jarring, but I think that it made sense like logically in terms of
5:38
[SPEAKER_08]: you know, how it contrasts with the overall narrative and that was the intention.
5:43
[SPEAKER_08]: And I think this one, you know, it doesn't really go back into that really much of that like kind of.
5:52
[SPEAKER_08]: What happened at the end of 28 years later, was kind of weird.
5:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Just, just, it was weird.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:58
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
5:58
[SPEAKER_08]: I like weird, too.
5:59
[SPEAKER_08]: But it was like a tonal, kind of like a tonal, like, I, that was jarring.
6:05
[SPEAKER_08]: But I can, it makes sense with like the, the world view of the jimmies compared to that of our, of our protagonist.
6:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so I think it works like as a whole it just it was just jarring at the end of the first movie.
6:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I mean, I, I would like to, you know, listen again to our 28 years later, um, episode, and I've called it in several other episodes, one of my favorite films of all time now.
6:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I liked the sort of cyclical nature of this boy who's trapped in childhood and then here in this film, we see the consequences of, yeah, whatever, the fallout of that,
6:56
[SPEAKER_02]: lead the dead as a priest.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And what that did to his young psyche combine with teletubbies because he liked teletubb.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Or teletubb means as he misremembers now.
7:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's a nice touch too.
7:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Just in terms of just I guess how
7:20
[SPEAKER_08]: he kind of doesn't, you know, it doesn't remember as far as like the actual history of any of the, any of these just kind of based on what kind of benefits him.
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's constructed his own sort of mythology history.
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, what, what did you think of the film?
7:42
[SPEAKER_08]: Overall,
7:50
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's, it's, well, not very, but it's pretty different from the first 20 years later.
7:59
[SPEAKER_08]: I would say I'd still like to part one a little more than part two, or a little bit more than a bone temple, just because it might maybe it was, you know, because the series had been away for so long, or maybe it was just that the narrative felt a little bigger in scope, but bigger doesn't always have to necessarily mean better, so this one was much more.
8:23
[SPEAKER_08]: personal if that makes any sense in terms of character relationships and kind of kind of the hair wing journey that our hero goes on.
8:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
8:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also, I mean, I called part, yeah, it's, we're going to refer to it as part one and part two, even though this is not doing.
8:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
8:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But I, I called part one one of my all-time favorites.
8:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, this is not one of my all-time favorites, but I still gave it five stars.
8:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I, um, on a scale of one to ten, I would rate.
8:59
[SPEAKER_02]: the first 28 years later at 11, you know, like in the change room.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And this one, I gave, you know, five stars to attend.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me, it did, it, you know, did perfectly what it wanted to do.
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I just, the last film.
9:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Push further, broke some things, you know, in ways that I found really interesting.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's also why people like this film better apparently, um, overall.
9:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So on Rotten Tomatoes, this film got 92% from critics and 88% from audiences versus part one got 88 from critics and 63 from audiences.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that jarring ending for a lot of people and then yeah, unletter boxed this film, the boom temple got 3.9 out of 5 versus the first one got 3.4 out of 5.
9:55
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's interesting because while I, the ending was kind of like in the first one was Jarring that was only like, I don't know two minutes of, but the rest of the films just is absolutely like makes sense and absolutely just wrecks.
10:12
[SPEAKER_08]: So I, I'm kind of surprised to hear that actually.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was also interesting.
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people say that this film is more violent than the first film, but Nia de Costa, the director of this film.
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: She, you know, she keeps pointing out that actually you saw a more visceral gore in the first one.
10:32
[SPEAKER_02]: This one just feels worse.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think because it's human on human violence, and I'll say there's a content warning for torture.
10:39
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
10:40
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
10:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, that's kind of how it definitely feels that way, but yeah, what kind of what the director said it makes, uh, the first movie just, uh, lots and lots of zombie violence.
10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a zombie violence, it's true.
10:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And here it's, there's actually not that much zombie stuff other than Samson.
11:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly humans being awful.
11:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But we'll get to that.
11:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Shall we check in and hear where Jean thought of this one?
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
11:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Riley, Alicia, still sorry that I couldn't join you on this episode of
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: sure to be riveting and absolutely amazing conversation around 28 years later at the bone temple.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to hear what you guys.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Though out of it, how you guys break it down, I'm sure it's going to be a fun part.
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say that really quickly.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to give near the cost of the director, all of the movies to make.
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm such a fan of hers, and I think she did an absolutely amazing job with this film.
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the thing that I will say is that it's so very different from previous installments because from the very beginning, I was just totally gripped with anticipation, fear,
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: All the things that you would expect to be in a zombie apocalypse, I felt the tension that each character faced from the outset.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: This was non-stop.
12:27
[SPEAKER_00]: it was non-stop drama, non-stop looking over your shoulder and I just really think that it is a testament to how filmmaking and also the direction of the characters and how what acted they were in this movie to make me feel this way.
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely think that
12:52
[SPEAKER_00]: future zombie movies can take a little bit of a note from this one because how I feel is that you know you there's a sense of dread over this entire film from beginning to end and
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: good way to put it.
13:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's how it should be.
13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So watching it, I just felt overwhelmed for these characters and really wanted the best for them and knowing that the best was probably not going to happen.
13:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So kudos again to the entire crew for bringing that emotion out of me.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: as far as the film visually it's stunning I think the summer to chase scenes and the fight scenes and the evisceration scenes are just you know epic and in scale.
13:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say epic and scared, I don't mean in the bombastic type of way.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I just mean that they were typically done to show the core and how visceral that that feeling was of seeing somebody literally getting torn apart shouldn't be a
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going to leave you guys with.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear how what you guys thought of everything with your favorite characters.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my favorite character is Alpha.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, did take that for what it is.
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I look forward to revisiting this world.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I'm gonna leave it.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you guys for giving me this opportunity just to share my brief thoughts on the film.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a great part.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll talk to you both later, and I can't wait to listen, peace.
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, I know he's a big knee at a cost-of-hand, and I think this is possibly, I don't know, maybe my favorite knee at a cost-of-film today, of course, maybe I'm biased.
15:22
[SPEAKER_08]: It's one of mine.
15:23
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the other one would be the, uh, the, the name that I cannot say, just because I get scared if there's like a reflection.
15:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, don't say it three times you mean.
15:36
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, I won't even say it one time.
15:38
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm just like I'm very superstitious.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Fair fair.
15:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the the gentleman with these sweet stuff.
15:49
[SPEAKER_08]: In Chicago.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Good point.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Good point.
15:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I guess for me, I really love this one and it but it did feel different from the other as we said, and it makes sense because we have a different director instead of Danny Boyle, we have Nia to Costa.
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still written by Alex Garland.
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all written by Alex Garland, so there's that, you know, through line.
16:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But this one, you know, it's filmed back to back with the first one and Danny Boyle's like, I can't do both.
16:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, he brought in Nia de Costa, and I think that's great.
16:27
[SPEAKER_02]: She's brought a fresh perspective to it, and she's also brought some of her favorite collaborators, so that instead of that young father's score that I loved from the last one, or the John Murphy score from the original, instead we get a score from Hilder Gooden
16:49
[SPEAKER_02]: yet she also did Heta for example and she just did the bride which Lisa and I just released an episode about for subscribers.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah but it's a different energy because it feels like the score feels more
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, stately.
17:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes, that makes sense.
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Needle drops aside.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get to the needle drop.
17:14
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, there's some good needle drops.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a highlight musically for me.
17:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also, yeah, she brought Sean Bobbitt, who's a collaborator with her for cinematography instead of Anthony Dodd, mantle who did days and years.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it was edited by different person by Jake Roberts, who also edited, for example, Alien Romulus and other Alex Garland films, rather than John Harris, who did years and is going to be doing playface next.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really liked John Harris pushing the envelope with the editing.
17:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope he does that in playface as well.
17:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, when, when did you, did you see this when it released, uh, January 13th here in Europe 16th, I think in the US, um, did you get to see it shortly after it came out in the theater?
18:02
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I saw it within the first week.
18:04
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, usually my friend and I, can I do like a movie day every, usually every Tuesday.
18:09
[SPEAKER_08]: So, uh, we usually go to the theater on Tuesday.
18:12
[SPEAKER_08]: So that's, that's the, and this so it's usually like the Tuesday after
18:17
[SPEAKER_08]: something new comes out usually.
18:19
[SPEAKER_08]: So that's what kind of happened with my when I saw the bone temple.
18:23
[SPEAKER_08]: How about you?
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I saw it opening weekend and it was noticeably a different theatrical experience versus the first one.
18:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the first one I saw in Dolby and it wasn't even available.
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: The second one in Dolby here.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It just seems like it flew much more under the radar,
18:45
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm wondering if that's as close as it was January or I mean, I'm just speculating, so it's kind of hard to
18:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well that is the question and I think maybe because they released it so fast, I'm hoping it'll get more traction now that so it was released on video on demand on February 17 and now the day that this episode that you're listening to now is released is the day that it's also released on Netflix so you can now watch 28 years and now 28 years of bone temple on Netflix so hopefully that will get more attention on it.
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The third part is Greenlit by Sony slash Columbia, and the last update was from Killian Murphy, who a spoiler we've already talked about before.
19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: He will be play a major part in the third one.
19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He said in early March that the story is in process.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do know the people are worried though, because this phone temple, it cost about 63 million and it, yeah, barely broke even on that in the box office versus 28 years, which like tripled, it's investment.
20:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, you know, you could say it's like the weird ending, but I don't think that's it.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that a lot of people just genuinely were not aware of it.
20:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I feel like it definitely, the bone tablet, as you said, just kind of went unnoticed by a lot of people, just because either it was January or it just wasn't promoted or like people were still focusing on last year's movies.
20:29
[SPEAKER_08]: Or I, yeah, it was kind of, yeah, it was kind of sad, I guess.
20:35
[SPEAKER_08]: That it was kind of ignored at least from, you know,
20:40
[SPEAKER_08]: a lot of audiences.
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, apparently, you know, Netflix is interested in buying this off of Sony, but Danny Boyle rightfully wants theatrical, but it feels like, yeah, Sony just didn't invest in that theatrical promotion this time.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And I hope it's not because it's not
21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I do, yeah, I think it's great that for this sort of bridge movie that Neeta Costa brought a new energy, Ray Fines said that Danny Boyle's direction in the first film was instinctive and fast-paced with a clear vision of desired moments, and he says Neeta Costa's approach is much more deliberate and meticulous.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: and with a lot of focus on close-up shots, so that's like focusing on the subtle aspects of an actor's performance.
21:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, yeah, you feel that.
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a much more intimate film, maybe.
21:44
[SPEAKER_08]: I'd say yes, just because, you know, you don't really think too much about the wider world like you do in the first 28 part one, I should say.
21:58
[SPEAKER_08]: Whereas in this one, you know, it's, you know, it's about spike, it's about the jimmies and it's about rafines and his, and his new, but his new zoom.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the ultimate bromance.
22:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's good and high.
22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, so I'm definitely going to gush more about Ray Fines as Kelsen, but I think the entire cast was incredible.
22:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think especially, again, Chi Chi, Lewis Perry, who plays Samson, that's a tough role to get recognition for because he obviously doesn't really speak.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also, it was great.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: One of my favorite scenes, I won't spoil it, but just, no, maybe I shouldn't even say that.
22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just say one of my, one of my favorite scenes overall definitely also involves Jack O'Connell, who is just becoming a legendary villain.
23:01
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
23:03
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we do some sinners.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah, I was thinking like, I am more scared of Jimmy than I am of Remic from sinners.
23:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, I didn't see that.
23:18
[SPEAKER_08]: I feel like a, you know, Remic, you know, he's, you know, he's obviously bad because he's a vampire and, but it's like, you can kind of, somewhat see, but it's still bad, whereas, whereas, as Lee Jimmy, he's kind of, I don't know, he's definitely more,
23:40
[SPEAKER_08]: evil if that makes any sense, which is weird to say that about someone who compared to a vampire.
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But Remake, like, I bought into his whole stick about, you know, like vampire communism.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he believes it, at least, you know?
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And even if it's for selfish reasons, but Jimmy is just pure selfishness.
24:11
[SPEAKER_08]: As you kind of alluded to with Ramek, it was he believes in what he says and he wants to share it with others as he said.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, yeah, Anita Costa, she said that she says that the theme of the first film in the trilogy was about the nature of family, like, okay, that makes sense.
24:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she says the bone temple is about the nature of evil, like, okay, there we go.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And she says that the third film will be about the nature of redemption.
24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And apparently, it's a film about radical forgiveness.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am very interested in that, and I'm wondering who's getting forgiven, but we won't get into that spoilers.
25:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I'll just say this is still an absolutely beautiful film, just yeah, I think John was talking about that with just all of the gorgeous shots of the woods and the countryside and especially the bone temple and the way they played with light and the bone temple.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: particularly in one scene.
25:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any more spoiler-free thoughts or or to whom would you recommend 28 years later the bunk temple?
25:34
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll just first add on to the any for the photography cinematography anytime you have like vibrant woodsy kind of green colors it just always kind of
25:50
[SPEAKER_08]: And as far as who I would like to recommend this to, I'd say if one, if you liked the first 28 years lady, Lady, would you choose the first 28 years later?
26:01
[SPEAKER_08]: You should, I don't know why you haven't watched this yet, but if you haven't, get on that, please.
26:10
[SPEAKER_08]: And if you haven't watched the first 28 years later, and you need like zombie films or just sit in some,
26:20
[SPEAKER_08]: or kind of, you know, but with the, like, a lot of thought put into it, um, this is probably up your alley.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, horror with emotional depth.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: About the nature of humanity in the end of the end of the day.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
26:39
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
26:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I will second that recommendation, and we'll take a quick pause here.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we come back, there will be the full spoiler warning, and we will get into the breakdown.
27:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we are back and this is your last chance escape stage left if you don't want spoilers for 28 years later The bone tempo because we are going to begin now and I would like to shout out a thanks to Wikipedia for helping me speed up the outline writing with the plot summaries
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's start with the opening set-up.
27:24
[SPEAKER_02]: There's an initiation where somebody is losing a finger.
27:27
[SPEAKER_02]: After being rescued by the fingers, a gang of fighters led by the Zellis Satan worshiper, Sir Lord, Jimmy Crystal.
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Spike is forced to kill Jimmy Shite in a death match as an initiation.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Sir Jimmy renames the young boy Jimmy to match the other fingers, who include the more empathetic Jimmy Inc. and the sadistic Jimima.
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So, where do you thoughts on this opening scene?
27:56
[SPEAKER_08]: kind of sets the tone for the movie as far as you see kind of the brutal violence in terms of the human on human violence rather than these zombie violence.
28:09
[SPEAKER_08]: It kind of shows how sadistic the jimmies are like how it's like they pressure you know they in order for
28:25
[SPEAKER_08]: bizarre, just because, you know, he's a kid, comparatively speak.
28:30
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, a lot of them all look kind of organic kids, but like he's like, I don't remember what his age was.
28:37
[SPEAKER_08]: I didn't lose, he was noticeably younger and smaller.
28:42
[SPEAKER_08]: And so it's like that wasn't even a fair fight to begin with.
28:47
[SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, it just kind of sets up the power dynamic and it sets up just,
28:54
[SPEAKER_08]: some of the more gruesome and more, you know, human on human violence that you see throughout the film.
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we definitely, we get the introduction to Sir Lord Jimmy Crystal, the this personality of this overlord, literally sitting in this lifeguard's chair above the rest of them down and in a drained pool.
29:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And it seems, do you think like, I don't know, I was wondering if he felt special that he was the only one of his friends who survived as a kid?
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, if that makes him feel like the chosen son or because his father was the priest, or the, I'm sorry, not the, of the vicar.
29:38
[SPEAKER_08]: I think a combination of those things.
29:41
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, like, if you survive something like that, where the other kids don't, you're, you're going to feel special.
29:47
[SPEAKER_08]: And then when your dad kind of goes out on that kind of speech, like that, it's probably going to leave an impact on you.
29:54
[SPEAKER_08]: So I think, I think, yeah, he felt special because of those two things.
30:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, yeah, I think it's interesting that there seems to be a lot of conflict in his head, like later on, we hear him say to, um, to Kelsen if only his mom and sister had hidden in the church.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But then it's like, well, his father was the one who was leading the charge, but what do you've protected?
30:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: There's all these questions that are in my head.
30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It must also have been in Jimmy's head for the last 28 years.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of his look?
30:32
[SPEAKER_08]: Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, not to be confused with Jimmy, Jimmy, who's a different Jimmy.
30:47
[SPEAKER_08]: Correct, there's, yes, my apology is for those listening.
30:55
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I thought you looked, you know, they look silly, you know, in terms of like their hair do, their outfits, their, you know, they call each other Jimmy, um, but it's kind of highlights kind of this, this idea that this kid didn't grow up and like didn't, like actually mature, and but instead it was like raised in this brutal and violent world and
31:24
[SPEAKER_08]: embodies and became and so there's you know the contrast between like how wicked he is and how silly he looks it kind of just it kind of it's kind of terrifying
31:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I forget did you watch the, the, the alien show, the new alien earth show?
31:47
[SPEAKER_08]: I did.
31:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know how they were playing in that show on the darker side of Peter Penn.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And it feels like that's what's it play here, too.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he is a dark Peter Penn, a Satanist
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wants to be the overlord, but he's in an adult body, but he's clearly not even taking care of his teeth.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He's modeled himself after a Jimmy Seville.
32:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about it in the last episode, but he's a he was a children's television host who was after his death exposed to have been rampant pedophile for many years.
32:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But Jimmy wouldn't know that because the apocalypse happened in that world before that was exposed.
32:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wonder what he would think if he did know.
32:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
32:45
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't think, and I think he'd, I think he might be indifferent.
32:52
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe.
33:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, you have to wonder, was he just a sadist or was he also, thankfully, there's no sexual violence in this film, but you could imagine, I don't know, I don't know, he could just be a virgin, he doesn't even know about sex, I don't know.
33:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because he's modeled himself also after the teletubbies.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but also just with the Tierra to show that he's the leader, I suppose.
33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to be honest, if it were the apocalypse, I would wear a Tierra all the time as well.
33:46
[SPEAKER_08]: I've played so many video games based in the apocalypse, so I'm kind of just now I'm just thinking about
33:59
[SPEAKER_08]: it would be like the T-A-Roo.
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course.
34:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, though, at the track suits look comfortable.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So one point, we talked about the teletomies thing that he's misremembering things, but he also one point calls himself Roberto Calamari.
34:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he is thinking of Roberto Calamari, who is a track suit designer?
34:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I ask you, who do you think, because I would say Spike was the lead in the first movie?
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think Spike is still the lead in this movie or if not who?
34:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of, it's interesting to say.
34:40
[SPEAKER_08]: I'd say, I'd say, say, maybe Jimmy?
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, yeah.
34:48
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe.
34:49
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, like we obviously don't really empathize with Jimmy too much.
34:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.
34:55
[SPEAKER_08]: But, hopefully.
34:57
[SPEAKER_08]: I'd say maybe, part of me says Jimmy just because he drives so much of the plots and the narrative and, you know, that's an interesting question actually.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting that like in the last film Spike, it was almost about him.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: acting older than he was like it starts with you know his dad taking him out for the hunting ritual too young um and then you know him taking his mother upon himself as if he were the parent and she's literally calling him dad and now it's about him finding himself in this situation where he is a helpless kid.
35:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
35:43
[SPEAKER_02]: and like the only reason he survived this fight is because he just got lucky and hit Jimmy Shite in the femoral artery in the leg where you just bleed out if it's not taking care of.
35:54
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that makes.
35:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, I agree.
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: was okay so we had seven fingers and someone pointed out online that there were seven kids in the part one intro so I wonder if that's why he had seven fingers but Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy ink otherwise we learned later at known as Kelly Jimmy Shite who's the one that Spike killed Jimmy Fox Jimmy Jones who's the other female other than Jimmy
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And Jimmy Snake, who was the bestie of the Jimmy that Spike killed, did you have any favorites in this group of the Jimmy's?
36:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I like to... Jimmy Jones, I guess.
36:48
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, maybe not like the name, but it's had a Jim Jones reference.
36:52
[SPEAKER_08]: It feels like it, I mean, like one of them feels like one of the references feels like a Jamie Fox reference.
37:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Jamie Fox is a much cutlery or character than Colt leader Jim Jones.
37:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:10
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
37:11
[SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I think I think that Jimmy Jones kind of makes sense just because, uh, no, she's not as terrible compared to you.
37:22
[SPEAKER_02]: True.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say it is the most of the rest.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
37:27
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, she has ideological questions.
37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, as far as, like, who would most want to hang out with, obviously, Jimmy Ink, the one played by Aaron Kellyman, as far as who I find the most interesting, I would say, Jimima.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: the pixie-sadest.
37:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It was, she does the dipsy-dance.
37:52
[SPEAKER_08]: Wait, I meant Jimmy ink.
37:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, okay, okay, there's so many Jimmy's, they are, they're all named Jimmy.
38:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is confusing.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed Spike didn't get, did they ever, I don't know if they gave him a Jimmy, like they called him Jimmy, but did he have like a Jimmy blank name?
38:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't find it if he did.
38:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't want to think of him.
38:19
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't think he did, yeah, I don't think he did.
38:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he also didn't get the branding of the upside down cross on his forehead, like Jimmy Incas, for example.
38:35
[SPEAKER_08]: properly initiated.
38:37
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't.
38:39
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe there's a, you know, the, maybe there's some sort of initiation we didn't see or that they, that they do, but they didn't get to for reasons of plot progression.
38:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
38:52
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, yeah.
38:54
[SPEAKER_08]: So maybe he was in, but not all the way in.
38:58
[SPEAKER_02]: If that makes any sense.
39:02
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you think of the masks?
39:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess they had these tie-on masks that were made from, I suppose, more track suits.
39:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But like with shoelaces, using them, yeah, they were so weird and it made it so creepy to me that they were so weird.
39:19
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, kind of like doing it yourself, slip-not masks.
39:24
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no, they kind of added to the creepy factor, definitely.
39:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the, like sort of, I don't know, a tele-tubbiness is, this actually comes from Jimmy Seville, the child molester, who would say on his show, how's about that?
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's probably where, how's that came from, whether it came to you.
39:48
[SPEAKER_02]: How's that?
39:49
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
39:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the final point I want to make here is that I find it interesting that spike basically ends up with the fingers because he is a good boy who wanted, you know, he was blaming his dad last.
40:07
[SPEAKER_02]: If Sean were here, I would want to ask what if he thinks Jamie looks so bad now after you make the james.
40:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But Spike was basically like, I can't stand dad's flattery and bullshit in cheating on mom.
40:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he runs away from home and this is what he finds.
40:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's actually his innocence to drove him into the arms of the devil.
40:31
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
40:32
[SPEAKER_08]: And his defense, though, and Spike's defense, though.
40:36
[SPEAKER_08]: It's, you know, bad behaviors, not a competition.
40:41
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it is comparatively, you know, why he did comparatively end up into a worse situation, but it doesn't take away the fact that his dad is kind of a dick.
40:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am a little more forgiving of his dad.
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, his dad did cheat on his mom, and that sucks.
41:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And his dad did take him off the island too young.
41:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So his dad's not a perfect dad for sure.
41:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But I definitely, like, I don't think he's a bad dad either, really.
41:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think he really loved Jim.
41:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so surprised that we didn't hear anything about him or the town or anything in this, this was really like an insertlude in this trilogy.
41:24
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was very focused on basically kind of three.
41:30
[SPEAKER_08]: core characters and those that surround them, and the media and how they eventually all interact with each other.
41:39
[SPEAKER_08]: So it was much more, it wasn't as narratively the scope wasn't as big as the first move, it was much more intimate.
41:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I do wonder if Spike's ever had friends, his own age, because I guess we didn't see any of the first time, but it's in, so when they enter that full area, they pass the sign called no children, pass this point.
42:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if that's just saying Spike is his childhood's over, as soon as he meets a Jimmy sets it.
42:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, the innocence is gone.
42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But I actually, yeah, I think if there are three core characters,
42:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't necessarily think Spike is one of them.
42:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's Jimmy, and I think it's these, these other two.
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into the bone temple romance.
42:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Ian Kelsen continues to build up the bone temple and also wary for those killed in the rage virus epidemic.
42:39
[SPEAKER_02]: While the alpha-infected Samsung repeatedly visits him.
42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Kelsen deduces at Samsung is being addicted to the morphine from his blow gun, deliberately allowing himself to be drugged.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Samson no longer attacks Kelsen and the two develop a friendship as he, his humanity begins to resurface.
42:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Running low in sedatives, Kelsen prepares to youth and I Samson, but is overjoyed when Samson speaks the word moong, suggesting that the rage virus may be treatable.
43:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so mad at Kelsen that he was almost about to kill him.
43:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, I was kind of mad for a similar reason, just because, you know, you had been
43:21
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, you guys have been getting high together, you guys have been, you were buddies and another movie is would be like a, there'd be like a little comedy kind of thing, but like, you know, it's like, don't can't betray Samson like that.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I get like the logic of what he was saying, but it's also like, no, but it's also he tested Samsung kind of where he like he passes out at one point and then he wakes up relieved that Samsung hasn't killed him and he's like, oh, so he's actually, you know, researching becoming more human.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he was going to fail that test, like don't kill your buddy is just the basic test.
44:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It was interesting, okay, so we heard Calson make a reference to Samson at the beginning of there, getting to know you, where he, Samson still has those errors in him from spike from their interaction at the end of the last movie, and so Calson pulls the errors out and treats them, and he refers to Andrew Clease and the Lion.
44:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you familiar with this myth?
44:39
[SPEAKER_08]: I am not, even though I should be giving my heritage.
44:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, Greek.
44:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why the Greek name, but no Greek heritage.
44:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, so basically it's, it's the one about the thorn in the lines, Paul, where, uh, this, what does it a mouse or something?
45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It helps the lion remove the thorn from his paw, um, and then later when the lion is supposed to attack the mouse, the lion says no.
45:11
[SPEAKER_02]: because the mouse helped me.
45:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's about showing compassion to someone who could be dangerous and that you get paid back with kindness and return.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So otherwise, known as hope punk.
45:28
[SPEAKER_07]: It's been seen this year.
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a big deal with me.
45:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm clinging to the hope.
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, I mean, so we see this that, you know, he is that that test that we're talking about.
45:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the NSA in H.S.
45:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Joe could make me laugh because I come.
45:51
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, you know, what are you going to pay me just kidding?
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm in H.S.
45:54
[SPEAKER_02]: which is real.
45:55
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
45:57
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
45:59
[SPEAKER_08]: That sounds nice.
46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wouldn't it be nice, wouldn't it be nice?
46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be very nice.
46:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so the also where he looked incredible, I liked getting to spend more time there.
46:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I've apparently it was made from 5,000 cast skulls, and 150 bones making all those.
46:24
[SPEAKER_02]: All those towers, very cinematic, and this is, of course, where we get, you know, we get Samsung, by the way, we get a flashback, we'll talk about in another section in a moment where Samsung remembers being human, and I'm like, well, he looks smaller, you know, like, yeah.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: uh and it turns out he's actually yeah because the rage virus is supposed to like puff you up in the muscles um he was wearing a full body prosthetic suit so it's not just the penis but the full suit the full body is prosthetics.
47:00
[SPEAKER_08]: That's kind of awesome.
47:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:03
[SPEAKER_08]: Sorry it's practical with the ex-girl that's
47:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks, I mean, it looks pretty real.
47:08
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, if you, if you hadn't told me that, I would have just assumed that man is a big dude.
47:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, apparently it took seven artists, six to eight hours to apply the suit, and each one could only be used once, and they had to do it more than 25 times while filming.
47:30
[SPEAKER_02]: the two votes.
47:31
[SPEAKER_08]: That is brutal.
47:32
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
47:34
[SPEAKER_08]: My attention span would not allow that.
47:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's, yeah, that's always the impressive thing about, you know, these actors who can do the prosthetic work, because then it takes hours to take off too.
47:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: you're spending most of your day just waiting to be encased in this, you know, latex or whatever.
47:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Still looking, whatever.
48:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he dances in it.
48:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently the scene where Dr. Kelsin and Sensen dance to Rio from Duran Duran was not part of the original script, but they
48:19
[SPEAKER_08]: always love a good pivot and like because I didn't know that beforehand, I always love it when like a filmmakers can pivot like that and they kind of get inspired by an idea do something different than what was initially planned so good on them.
48:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely.
48:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, okay.
48:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're, we're going to save the, the iron maiden discussion for the end where it belongs, but um, absolutely.
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Of the other needle drops.
48:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any favorites?
48:53
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, I guess, uh, it's hard to argue against everything in its right place, just because
49:08
[SPEAKER_08]: my go to.
49:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do.
49:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that one.
49:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I am a fan of radio head.
49:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I am especially a fan of deranderen so as excited they used three deranderen songs, girls on film, ordinary worlds, definitely my favorite, uh, and Rio, as we already talked about.
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought it was cool how they did this thing
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: they would, the song would be both diagetic, so like played within that world because Kelsen had his wind up record player, but also part of like the soundtrack, and it would kind of fade back and forth, where like maybe Kelsen would just be singing the song, and then it blasts out over the film, and then you know, because I thought that was some really cool sound mixing there.
49:58
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I just didn't, you know, feel like it was interjected kind of awkwardly, like whenever I listen, I watch something like the Mario movie or something and they put in like a song, it kind of does it doesn't really feel natural to them.
50:14
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, even though that's a kid's movie, totally different genre, but it doesn't feel right.
50:22
[SPEAKER_08]: And then this case, everything was placed in such an order and visually an audio and an audio form that it just, it felt connected to the movie more so than a lot of other kind of movies that do try to do something similar.
50:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was interesting because it would, you know, be the music would be in scene or out of scene.
50:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of called attention to itself in that way, but somehow that sucked me in even more.
50:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so let's put a plug and our bromance for now and let's check back in on some farmers that are getting fingered.
51:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this is really not funny, even if it's not funny.
51:15
[SPEAKER_08]: I have to respect good wordplay on that.
51:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
51:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The finger's rate of farm inhabited by survivors, including Tom and his pregnant partner Kathy.
51:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Sir Jimmy sends Jimmy Inc to scout the surrounding area where she catches sight of the bone temple, Samson and Kelsen, whose skin is covered in a red iodine solution, which he wears to protect himself in the virus.
51:40
[SPEAKER_02]: In a barn, Kathy hides as Sir Jimmy orders the fingers to skin the captured survivors alive as a sacrifice to old Nick, claiming that Satan is his father and speaks to him.
51:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Spike goes outside, second.
51:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Jimmy Inc.
51:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
51:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would be spiked by the way in that situation.
51:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Jimmy Inc. who has returned and is growing disillusioned with Sergei May takes pity on him.
52:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Sergei May offers Tom a place in the gang if he can win a death match against a finger.
52:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But Tom is quickly outmatched by his chosen opponent, Jim Mima.
52:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Kathy breaks her cover to kill Jamema, and Tom sets the barn on fire with a gas tank, killing Jimmy Jamey and burning several others before being killed himself.
52:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jamey sends Spike to capture Kathy.
52:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Spike traumatized, begs her to take him with her instead.
52:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Kathy incapacitate him in escapes.
52:35
[SPEAKER_02]: with the gang's numbers and morale low, Sergei Mith retains to kill Spike for his failure to capture Kathy, but Inc. suggests that they visit Kelsen, whom she assumes is old Nick, having mistaken the iodine solution for red and skin, and seen his interactions with the, quote, unquote, demon sense, and let old Nick decide Spike's fate.
53:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So also RIP, Johnna, who got left behind with the infected in the woods, Tom, by the way, the one who was fought and overwhelmed is apparently Andy Circus's son.
53:14
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's awesome.
53:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Lewis Ashburn's Circus, so I didn't realize that.
53:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so this is where the peculiar rating
53:30
[SPEAKER_08]: It's part of the most gruesome scene in the film.
53:33
[SPEAKER_08]: I'd argue.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's part of one of the most gruesome scenes of the year.
53:37
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
53:38
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely.
53:42
[SPEAKER_08]: If you're a squeamish around torture, it's a... Like, even if you're not squeamish around torture, it's a...
53:51
[SPEAKER_08]: It is like, I was like kind of like,
53:55
[SPEAKER_08]: grabbing my knees like the side of my chair and like kind of like trying to squirm inside of the chair.
54:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it starts like it's already making me squirm when he's making Jameela do the dipsy dance, you know, not letting her stop.
54:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though she seems to be, you know, she's, she's like used to what I suppose, but that's just such an act of control.
54:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it escalates to the point where this whole idea of offering charity means torturing people and the chosen charity in this, like we saw someone in the last movie who was hung upside down with Jimmy carved in his chest.
54:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So that must have been a type of charity, but this is seems worse.
54:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's removing the shirt, where they literally just skin the torso of the person.
54:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And you just see that skin drop on the ground, and oh my god.
54:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a lot.
55:00
[SPEAKER_08]: It is.
55:02
[SPEAKER_08]: That's going to, it's going to stick with me for a while.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think he calls it charity offering charity?
55:14
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm guessing, to maybe to old Nick or, you know, kind of like a sacrifice, I say, in a way.
55:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So the charity is not to the people who are receiving the charity, or yeah, that's what they play.
55:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:31
[SPEAKER_08]: The charities for the, for the one, the demo, or Satan, or terminology.
55:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I like there's some great, it was a tough scene to watch because of all this we're saying, but there is some really cool shots, for example, there's one point where they're exiting the farmhouse, and there's this shot just showing them from the distance and emphasizing the landscape around it, and just kind of, I don't know, showing how they are,
56:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I just like they are so small in this landscape despite what Jimmy wants to think.
56:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he wants to think that he's larger than life, but he's just kind of, you know, there's probably a lot of like little messed up stories that are happening on in the UK and Zumbi land, you know, so it's like in the grand scheme of things it's kind of like, you know,
56:39
[SPEAKER_08]: that important but he's kind of in that his own narrative and his own world he is.
56:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
56:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also, I mean, I don't want to say enjoyed or liked, but I was invested in the commentary about the man choosing the woman he thinks looks weak to fight.
57:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is someone who probably thinks he's like, I'm a feminist until it's like time to fight for your life.
57:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll kill the woman.
57:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But then of course, I mean, I guess at least spike was outside.
57:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if he would go into the kid.
57:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, part of me thinks he might have maybe, I think he would have.
57:23
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think he's desperate.
57:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of me thinks he would have too, which is like, feels even worse.
57:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But then Jamima, you know, she, she taunts him.
57:35
[SPEAKER_02]: She's about to skin his bottom half, which is like unnecessary.
57:41
[SPEAKER_02]: She chose that.
57:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, yeah, the others would have just stabbed you in the neck and be done with it.
57:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But do you chose me?
57:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause you thought I was weak.
57:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So guess what?
57:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when Kathy, the pregnant woman sends the hook down so that it lodges in her head and kills her, she obviously, her brain's malfunctioning is a hook in it.
58:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And she starts talking about her lost cat.
58:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to wonder, like, who was she doing when Jimmy found her and turned her into this?
58:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're helped her turn into this.
58:21
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, comparatively innocent.
58:25
[SPEAKER_08]: She, you know, is a person, but she was like, and it wants an epithetic person once a kid that this world that turned her into something else.
58:39
[SPEAKER_08]: So that Jimmy had turned her into something else.
58:42
[SPEAKER_08]: I think that was just her brain function and kind of reverting back to that.
58:46
[SPEAKER_08]: I say, is human, but it's more like bad I don't want to say it was human, because it themes, but it's a nice touch.
58:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
58:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think Kathy, the pregnant woman, who, I mean, Spike let her go, and then she,
59:06
[SPEAKER_02]: She, uh, I can understand on the one hand why she's like, no, I'm not taking you with me say to a kid, but on the other hand, it's like clearly this kid doesn't want to be there.
59:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, do you think we'll see Kathy again in part three?
59:20
[SPEAKER_08]: A part of me kind of hopes so just because I think that would be a, uh, interesting interaction if they run into
59:31
[SPEAKER_08]: you know, like it.
59:33
[SPEAKER_08]: And the others that he is with at the end of the movie.
59:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We can spoil now.
59:40
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
59:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
59:41
[SPEAKER_08]: With Mr. Kaley and Murphy.
59:45
[SPEAKER_08]: And that might be some interesting character interactions, some interesting drama.
59:50
[SPEAKER_08]: And some, you know, I feel like one of the reasons why she didn't take him with him other than like, you know, he's dressed like a psych
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_08]: He, uh, she, when she pricies and she thinks of, oh, that's, that's like the people I representative of the people I love that are dead now and first and horrible fashion, which is why I don't necessarily entirely blame her.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean like knowing the content with we have the privilege and though in the context of Spike, you know, like he's really not like he does not want to fucking be sorry.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, you can curse.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_08]: He does not want to fucking be there.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_08]: And but she doesn't have that knowledge that kind of we do.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_08]: So I kind of give her at least a little bit of
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Even though it, since we know the kind of inner workings of the jimmies, it, you know, we still kind of feel a little resentment.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I hope we pick up part three with Jim, who's Killy Murphy's character, immediately asking, hey, Kelly, why do you have an upside down cross carved into your forehead?
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a choice.
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, that's one of those tattoos I regret.
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
1:01:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so speaking of Kelly, I just love the idea of she seems at times like she really is a true believer, maybe not in Jimmy, but in this religious concept of old Nick.
1:01:38
[SPEAKER_02]: and when she sees Kelson in a temple of bones coated in red dancing with one of the infected, what issues are supposed to think other than old Nick is real?
1:01:53
[SPEAKER_08]: I think it's as illogical as it is to us, it is very logical to her.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, you see something and you go, that's pretty metal.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_08]: What's happening?
1:02:09
[SPEAKER_08]: There's guy dancing with a giant zombie and he's red and there's a really cool looking pile of skulls in the background.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, literally metal.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get to this.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It is literally metal.
1:02:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that this is like just set in this little corner.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was listening back to our 28 years later episode, and I was talking about how I hoped that we would see more communities.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And part of me,
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hopes after part three, you know, obviously I wouldn't I want to explore this whole world and see what's going on and other corners of it.
1:02:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do appreciate that it is really about this one corner of the world where of course sooner or later if the jimmies are in this area, they're going to see the bone temple because it would be weird if they didn't.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, I think what the movie with stride like striving to do it in a conflict, as far as just.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, focusing on the comparatively smaller stuff and kind of just the characters and the few characters, rather than the larger world, I think it benefits from that.
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
1:03:35
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so with these two groups on a collision course, the bromance and the jimmies, let's take one more quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about how these paths
1:04:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so now Sir Jimmy leads the gang to the bone temple where he meets Kelsen alone.
1:04:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Upon discovering Kelsen is not Satan, Sir Jimmy threatens to kill him if he does not pose a Satan and substantiate Sir Jimmy's leadership over the fingers.
1:04:18
[SPEAKER_02]: The next morning, Spike tries to leave Sir Jimmy's camp but is confronted by Jimmy Fox, who attempts to kill him to avenge Jimmy's Shite's death.
1:04:27
[SPEAKER_02]: ink intervenes and kills Fox, she brings spike back, claiming to surge him that Fox fled out of fear of Satan, and she was forced to kill him in self-defense.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, this is what I was teasing, this surge me going to meet Kelsen.
1:04:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely, easily one of my all-time favorite scenes in this film, and one of the reasons I gave her five stars.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it just reveals so much about his character or at least early embodies so much of his character, just how much that he is really like, he doesn't actually believe what he says, he just is out for himself and only wants to rule his fingers.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_08]: and you know have power over them so that he as so that they as a whole can have power over other people.
1:05:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah he did seem scared or he would yeah when he first went into the bone temple like he was like what the hell what if what if the stuff I've been saying is true somehow but I'm not the chosen son.
1:05:43
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, he's part of him's might have been thinking like, you know, combined with that and also like whatever here must have killed a lot of things.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
1:05:55
[SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's probably some intimidation there, too.
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it just strike me that there are some similarities.
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess Kelsen and Jimmy are in some ways, you know, lighter and dark mirrors of each other, where because we know we learn through this conversation that Jimmy really has been while he's had these fingers around him.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually not really had any actual friends.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and you know, he's, he's, uh, he says I like you.
1:06:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You're easy to talk to and that he's never liked anyone before.
1:06:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But we also hear from Cousin when Spike asks him about the bone temple is like, uh, in the first movie is like, ah, I'm waiting.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_02]: They're almost 13 years for someone to talk about this, which means he's been alone for that long, I suppose.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, probably because I mean, we kind of we saw in the first film just because everyone was intimidated by the by what he was doing because they didn't ask him what he was doing and said it where they just assumed that he was, you know, they're a very frightening person that would take their bones and make a skull mountain.
1:07:17
[SPEAKER_08]: But then he gets to know him and it's like, oh, there's actually a very humane and human reason behind this.
1:07:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
1:07:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting, okay, so obviously there's some things done with the choosing of the names in this entire series for reasons, and one being Jimmy Crystal, JC, Jesus Christ, and, you know, is sort of an indictment of organized religion, I suppose, by him turning it on its head literally, like the cross he wears around his neck,
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And we see he leans into this in the first movie we saw written on Barn in the background.
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Behold Jimmy.
1:08:02
[SPEAKER_02]: He's coming with the clouds which comes from revelation one-seven And people have pointed out the Jimmy ink J.I.
1:08:11
[SPEAKER_02]: is like Judas Iskariot, you know, they're home.
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's a nice pool
1:08:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then on the other hand, we have Kelson, the atheist, who Jimmy says to him, atheist doctor, okay.
1:08:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So you believe all this zombie shite was caused by science and bugs and whatnot, rather than old Nick unleashing his wrath upon the world of man.
1:08:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just, what do you think Jimmy believes?
1:08:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he has any idea what he believes?
1:08:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, as he seems to go back and forth about whether he really believes his father is Satan, which may be, you know, seeing the last time he saw his father in the opening of the first film, there's a case to be made for thinking his father is Satan, versus other times he seems to realize it's not true.
1:09:06
[SPEAKER_08]: It's kind of a combination of, you know, it's what he wants to, what he wants to be real, but it's also because one of the reasons why he wants it to be real is because it benefits him.
1:09:21
[SPEAKER_08]: And I think that kind of, those two kind of go hand in hand.
1:09:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think it comforts him maybe a little too that, you know, thinking that last time he saw his father, he says he was leading the demons in at the four, oh, he always said charity starts at home.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's why he, I guess, is offering charity in those words, other people, but yeah.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_02]: you just have to wonder like what was his dad like at home as a dad?
1:09:50
[SPEAKER_02]: What's he a mean dad?
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_02]: What's he looks like he loved his son, but clearly he had some interesting beliefs.
1:10:01
[SPEAKER_08]: Ah hard hard to say.
1:10:03
[SPEAKER_08]: I imagine there must there might have been some problems at home given his
1:10:11
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, kind of, the father's belief system is what his father said at the end, but I don't know if that was always like that for him.
1:10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:10:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:10:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It is interesting though that it seems like Kelsen's the only person Jimmy's ever been able to be real with since the apocalypse.
1:10:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
1:10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But still, he's willing to, he's like, I like you, but I'm still gonna get you in a force feed you your own intestines until you can't breathe.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't do what I say.
1:10:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_08]: Which is a very convincing argument for our doctor.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems to convince Ian Kelsen for sure.
1:10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:10:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, Kelly is stirring up shit in the Jimmy Inc.
1:11:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she obviously doesn't know at this point that Spike knows Kelsin and she's trying to incite a mutiny like, she's basically like, I believe that's the devil.
1:11:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe he's Jimmy's dad.
1:11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:11:26
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:11:29
[SPEAKER_08]: For reasons that we're about to get into, uh,
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_08]: Did it the next part's great, that's all I'm gonna say.
1:11:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, yeah, this, this interaction with her, where she kind of like takes him like a bird under her wing, uh, spike.
1:11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And she, there's, uh, I suppose in the third film will learn more about her background because all we hear here is that spike says she's like, where are you going spike?
1:11:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And he says anywhere is better than here.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And she says, I've been to anywhere.
1:12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_02]: you need to stick with me kid.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So I need to see what her anywhere is and tell me her heart breaking story.
1:12:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:12:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, before we get to the big show piece, see, let's check in on Samson on his side, Odyssey, where Kelsen fears that his research on Samson will be cut short and in a premature attempt to grant him peace, administers him a cocktail of anti-psychotics and other drugs, hypothesizing that the rage virus calls as aggression, indirectly via psychotic hallucinations.
1:12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Experiencing some clarity, Samsung visits the abandoned train where he was infected and hallucinates a childhood memory of a conductor asking for his ticket.
1:12:48
[SPEAKER_02]: After he once again speaks a nearby pack of infected attack him as if he were uninfected.
1:12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you interpret all of this?
1:13:04
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it kind of bring brought the themes from the first film kind of full circle in terms of
1:13:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, Samson being human, you know, can't regain some elements of his humanity.
1:13:20
[SPEAKER_08]: And we're discovering himself and improving that, you know, in the infected aren't just mindless.
1:13:30
[SPEAKER_08]: They were people and they can maybe even can be people again.
1:13:37
[SPEAKER_08]: And it brought to the themes in the first film whole circle where, you know, kind of having empathy for others, kind of having, you know, seeing the human aspect, instead of just dehumanizing zombies or anything else, it was kind of beautiful.
1:13:59
[SPEAKER_08]: And then, you know,
1:14:01
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe not necessarily the blood and gore after, after it might not be as beautiful, but like that, it's thematically, it's beautiful.
1:14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was, I mean, we get some insight into where Kelsen thinks that this is, he says in this, that he thinks it's psychosis, which some people pointed out is kind of a retcon, but I don't, to me, it makes sense.
1:14:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That he says, why are the infected attacking sometimes even children?
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, we see through Samsung's eyes, that the infected see
1:14:40
[SPEAKER_02]: the humans as as uh like demons basically they look like demon faces and and then the question is so what is Samson now?
1:14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Samson's obviously awake and he can speak some words again now um and now the other infected are attacking him
1:15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: but he's not when they get their blood in his mouth and stuff.
1:15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't get re-infected or something.
1:15:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's immune, probably, a carrier, I suppose.
1:15:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
1:15:16
[SPEAKER_08]: That's probably true, X. Yeah, I don't know.
1:15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, um,
1:15:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you have to question where does this leave Samson as sort of a Frankenstein's monster in a way just forced to be alone because he's dangerous to anyone around him?
1:15:38
[SPEAKER_08]: It is, that's actually kind of tragic in terms of just, he regained his, you know, his sense
1:15:49
[SPEAKER_08]: the only person, so he could really be with was Dr. Kelsey and that's not really going to happen in a bit.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish they told us which anti-psychotic drugs.
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I always like to specifically know the drug, but I suppose it's best that they're just like, just trust us.
1:16:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just fine.
1:16:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an anti-psychotic and it works.
1:16:16
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, all pills work the same and there's never a side of facts and so I'm definitely don't work for other people compared to definitely work just as well for other people as a day that you've heard others.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Well that is the question here is is it is it only alphas because we're told alphas are smarter?
1:16:47
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I'd say I'd hope the third movie answers that because it's a good question and it's kind of when I do want another answer to, um, I want to say yes, uh, just because I think that fits with the themes of the trilogy so far.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, what we shall see if we see it all, just to pay on what the story is for part three, given that the story of part two was so different from part one comparatively speaking.
1:17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's interesting in terms of what drugs it is that they are so specific in what the um, subduing drugs are, you know, that it's morphine and zylazine, which are what subduing something, so I wonder, I don't know.
1:17:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, maybe they had a drug and then someone's like, no, it doesn't work like that.
1:17:47
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, just cut it out, moving on.
1:17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But I wonder, like, okay, so we know they're out of morphine within a 70 mile radius, calcium told us that.
1:17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do wonder Will Samson, remember how he would treat it and with Kelsey and spoiler for the last section or the last two sections we're going to, with Samson, sorry, Kelsey and God.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Will can anyone else be treated?
1:18:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it does Samson have any clue what's done to him or anyway to figure it out to try to treat
1:18:28
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, maybe he can take a look at Dr. Kelsen's any equipment he still has, maybe, and just know what works for him.
1:18:40
[SPEAKER_08]: But that even then, that's kind of flimsy.
1:18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Kelsen left instructions for him.
1:18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Like in case you come back,
1:18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's how I did it.
1:18:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
1:18:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we'll see.
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:18:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It is interesting.
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You like, so that whole train sequence.
1:18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, there's Nia de Casta is on the train.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know it until the internet pointed it out to me, but she is at one point.
1:19:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You can see her sitting on the viewers left side of the train with, she's wearing like a baseball cap and you see kind of
1:19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a little good cameo.
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, a good director cameo.
1:19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one that's not really calling attention to itself.
1:19:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, good Easter egg.
1:19:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is, I like that she was involved in the development process of things that were relevant to her movie, especially the jimmies, and especially Samson.
1:19:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So she collaborated with Danny Boyle and creating this character because she knew, they knew this was gonna be a centerpiece of this movie.
1:19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: She was directing.
1:19:49
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, it kind of like Samson kind of makes her breaks this movie.
1:19:54
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:19:55
[SPEAKER_08]: And he definitely made it.
1:19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:20:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's also it's interesting that this this childhood memory he has is him looking through a science magazine about an article about the moon, which is the first word he says.
1:20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So when are he was a space geek when he was a kid.
1:20:18
[SPEAKER_08]: I imagine I mean what kids aren't interested in space, at least a little bit.
1:20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then he kind of has a rebirth at the end of the sequence where he emerges from the fight bathes in blood.
1:20:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if that's sort of like a baptism of blood in a way.
1:20:37
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, and then we get to the big show piece of this, the meeting, the devil, where that night, Kelsen complies with Sir Jimmy's demands impersonating Satan and a pyro-technic filled performance of Iron Maiden's, the number of the beast while exposing the gang to hallucinogens.
1:20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Upon recognizing Spike, Kelsen betrays Sir Jimmy by ordering the fingers to crucify him.
1:21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: As ink turns on him, Sir Jimmy fatally stabs Kelson in desperation, and ink is forced to fight and kill Jimmy's snake and Jimmy Jones.
1:21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Spike then stabs Sir Jimmy in the side before comforting the dying Kelson as ink crucifies Sir Jimmy on an inverted cross.
1:21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Spike and ink, who reveals her real name to be Kelly, leave for the wilderness.
1:21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Samson arrives and is taken to be Satan by Sir Jimmy.
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: He greets Kelsen by name and thanks him as Kelsen succumbs to his wounds, subsequently carrying his body away.
1:21:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Sir Jimmy is attacked by an unseen infected, which
1:21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we left Sir Jimmy upside down on the cross, which, yeah, satanic fitting.
1:21:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, I've, you know, remember learning in school that in, uh, that upside-down crucifixion was even more painful than regular crucifixion, but I wonder if that last, um, where he see where it, and infected attacks him from, and we see it from his perspective, I wonder if that was a hallucination.
1:22:15
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, a part of me thought, uh, it might have been a hallucination, but he did die.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_08]: There's just that I'm seeing him being taken by the devil.
1:22:25
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, that was kind of how I might have interpreted.
1:22:30
[SPEAKER_08]: If it wasn't interpreted literally, that's how I kind of interpret it metaphorically.
1:22:35
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, kind of like, it's, you know, the, uh,
1:22:41
[SPEAKER_08]: It's kind of revealed, you know, he revealed to Hitler's kind of who he was as a person in terms of, uh, I guess his psychological makeup is, you know, bully, you know, foamsy kind of like belief, but also kind of how self-centered that belief is, uh, and that was kind of him, you know, being punished for it, I guess, like,
1:23:08
[SPEAKER_08]: in a religious sense, like Eric theological sense, it kind of, it made some sense like that to me.
1:23:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
1:23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the performance of Iron Maiden's number of the beast, let's turn this up to 11, he says.
1:23:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you rightly are you are a heavy metal fan and I know you had some thoughts about this song selection.
1:23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what do you think?
1:23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why do you think they chose this song and why do you think it's important to this story?
1:23:44
[SPEAKER_08]: So the number of the beast, it make like, and Iron Maiden as a whole like even when they say like,
1:23:51
[SPEAKER_08]: Satan, anything that can be construed as satanic as was kind of the time during the satanic panic in the 80s, which was when the number of the beasts came out, which was I think in 82, both the song and the album because it's the album is also a number of the beasts, you know, but for if anyone that has ever watched like an iron maiden show.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_08]: or I've heard, you know, you can tell some somewhat of this on the record, just by the way, the lead singer at Bruce Dickinson sings, the your whole thing is theater.
1:24:27
[SPEAKER_08]: Like everything they do is...
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_08]: as far as musicians is this feels like it would sound great on a stage and it sets a lot of times there's stories and like other made in songs they you know sometimes can go on for like 13 14 minutes or so like they actually feel like actual epics so it's like any music that Iron made in creates is theater and I think that really made made a lot of sense as a song choice for
1:24:59
[SPEAKER_08]: Dr. Kelsen to kind of like dance and do a literal performance with and yeah, I just thought it was a great touch, great choice and a great song, you know, I'm biased because heavy battle, but yeah, it made a lot of sense to me.
1:25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is indeed, I like what you say about that they are about putting on this show to look more wicked than they are or whatever I suppose.
1:25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, Kelsen understood the assignment 200%.
1:25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting that he stopped painting himself red for this with the iodine and instead
1:25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and he's the way he's doing the dance.
1:25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have sworn he could have, he saw pants labyrinth, but I think that was, I don't know if he could have seen that, but the way he was doing his hands and stuff reminded me of the creature from pants labyrinth.
1:26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and just so smart, like he's a smart dude, you know, using the fire shakers, and he blows something in their faces, some sort of hallucinogen.
1:26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: He blows in their faces, so it all looks even more impressive.
1:26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just like, I want to know first of all how long did it take to tie those fire sconces to all of those pillars throughout the bone temple.
1:26:25
[SPEAKER_08]: He was ready for a killer show.
1:26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, and just seeing if so much fun, also like obviously Jimmy is is we've talked about evil basically.
1:26:41
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what human evil looks like.
1:26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I like how Ian says to ink after after all this as he's dying.
1:26:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's just us.
1:26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no devil and she's like something
1:26:59
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, well, you put on a good show and she drops the wig.
1:27:06
[SPEAKER_02]: She's no longer a believer.
1:27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, yeah, he, so he gets...
1:27:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Before Kelsen sees Spike, it seems like he was gonna go through with it, even though he didn't want Jimmy to stuff his own intestines down his throat, especially since he has his minions.
1:27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's so convincing.
1:27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You are the fingers of my right hand, your dark radiance, blackens, even sunlight, pride, moves inside me, like maggots in the corpse of Christ.
1:27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Jesus, come to me.
1:27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Neil, not you guys.
1:27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Neil, not you my son, you my stand in Jimmy looks so happy about that.
1:27:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he understood the assignment.
1:27:48
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, understood the assignment.
1:27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And he tells him the commands Jimmy told him to tell, continue your infernal mission.
1:27:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And Jimmy's like really pushing it.
1:28:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like making their agony into sacrament and Kelsen's like, yeah, it goes.
1:28:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The fingers must always obey Jimmy, grow the number of your fingers, which must have all felt so sickening to go along with until he sees spike.
1:28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And he says, I saw it with you behind the mask.
1:28:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you've suffered enough.
1:28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just like, couldn't you have thought of that before regardless of spike being there?
1:28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, crucified as motherfucker, because he's bad news.
1:28:35
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think I think if he was on defense before, like, in terms of, like, morally on defense,
1:28:45
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, like the morals kind of started to come back in this as soon as he said, grow the number of fingers, make more, make more people like him and make more people like, you know, Jimmy, Jimmy prime, as,
1:29:05
[SPEAKER_08]: I might mentally think of him from for a bit and it just shatters when he's like, oh, I know, I know that kid and he's as he said that, he eventually says, I think you've suffered enough.
1:29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Jimmy, who has only been thinking of himself, just a complete narcissist.
1:29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:29:33
[SPEAKER_02]: He's left upside down on the cross and he starts panicking.
1:29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, I can't hear his voice anymore.
1:29:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do wonder if he did maybe have some sort of schizophrenia or something that made him that contributed to this true, believiness.
1:29:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's really upset.
1:29:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't I hear his voice?
1:29:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I want my mom, father, why have you forsaken me?
1:29:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just went back and before I rewatch this movie, I rewatch the first one and I noticed that's the last thing he says when his father, um, you know, leads.
1:30:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's in all of the infected.
1:30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, Father, why have you forsaken me as a child?
1:30:13
[SPEAKER_08]: I think that kind of calls back to the, uh,
1:30:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, when I'm trying to remember which Jimmy got the hook into them, right, kind of calls to me.
1:30:26
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, when it calling back to a comparatively more innocent time when they were, you know, not scary murders who were ridiculous outfits.
1:30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess also to what I was saying about Spike where, you know, the last movie, he's like, I'm the big boy now.
1:30:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And in this movie, once you're faced with really horrifying things, then you kind of revert more to childhood, where he's like, please just take me with you, lady.
1:30:59
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:31:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
1:31:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Lots of parallels there.
1:31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:31:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a thing.
1:31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I use Jimmy, a parallel, as Jimmy, like a warning to spike, is he a parallel to Kelsin?
1:31:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting to think about all these characters and how they, you know, contrast and compare through each other.
1:31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
1:31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, that brings us to the final scene, and I think OG fans were definitely much more ready for this final scene than the last movie's final scene.
1:31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
1:31:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We got a history lesson.
1:31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Some time later, Spike and Kelly are attempting to escape a group of infected unaware that they are being observed by Jim, a survivor of the initial outbreak of the rage virus, and his teenage daughter Sam, who break off a history lesson about post war Europe to go to their aid.
1:31:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So first observation is, so we have obviously, we've been talking about the Jimmy's the whole time.
1:32:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Last episode, you know, for the first movie we were talking about Jamie, which is Spike's dad.
1:32:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have coming back from the original movie, Jim.
1:32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Jim, Jamie, Jamie, I, do you think there's a reason why these names sound so alike?
1:32:24
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, I think yes, uh, and just maybe it's just in terms of just the people, like, people, I say older, but older than spike that spikes around themselves with, in terms of whether it's by family or by, you know, he can't escape from them or by, you know, people that are
1:32:53
[SPEAKER_08]: kind of no better than him in terms of just more behaving more experience in the world.
1:32:59
[SPEAKER_08]: So I think that kind of like I part of me wants to say father figure, but that's not entirely true, but because because I mean I wouldn't call Jimmy a father figure.
1:33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But worse though, he's like the contrast that makes his own father look better.
1:33:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean maybe like like an authority figure combined with some sort of
1:33:25
[SPEAKER_08]: parental kind of lead if that makes any sense.
1:33:28
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so I think that could, and that was three characters could all represent that in some way.
1:33:35
[SPEAKER_08]: I think that could be the intention if there was intention.
1:33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting that Ian Kelsen falls outside that, um, yeah, you have to wonder if it's true.
1:33:47
[SPEAKER_02]: If the winner of Alex Garland is, you know, trying to make us think of these Jim Jimmy, Jamie as, as different versions of each other, maybe in the role they play with, because I suppose, I suppose Spike was never really with Kelsen for more than, you know, a day or two at a time.
1:34:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It was never his primary group leader, like Jamie, then Jimmy, and now Jim are.
1:34:15
[SPEAKER_07]: No, I, I'll go ahead.
1:34:17
[SPEAKER_02]: No, go ahead.
1:34:18
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I was a skin-out, concur.
1:34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, I guess we should be worried about that there's no Selena or Hannah from the original movie with Jim and his daughter.
1:34:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I assume Selena is Jim's daughter's mother.
1:34:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, but I do we think they're dead?
1:34:43
[SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.
1:34:43
[SPEAKER_08]: Parking hopes no, but there's a good possibility that yes.
1:34:50
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe not good pause, but there's a, you know, in that world, there's always a possibility that's something that happened.
1:34:59
[SPEAKER_08]: So I'll be interested to find out.
1:35:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, in, in, regardless, it seems to have decant and eyes I talked about in the last, uh, the episode for the last movie, the comics, and how that turned out, where Hannah was actually sent to Germany foster, for foster care.
1:35:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and Selena ended up, she thought that Jim was dead, and she ended up meeting someone else and going to the U.S.
1:35:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think none of that has happened now, like that the comic
1:35:45
[SPEAKER_08]: don't want to be, you know, the filmmakers probably don't want to be ever restricted by, you know, so that that happened outside of their medium.
1:35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, yeah, of course.
1:35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that might be interesting that Selena, the name means Moon, which is what Samsung's first
1:36:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, right, of course.
1:36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Wheel of Time reference can't get through an episode without it, for sure.
1:36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
1:36:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The internet also pointed out that Frank's Taxi from the original movie, Hannah's Dad, it's still there, it's all rusted and stuff, but Jim still has it.
1:36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It is interesting where
1:36:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to take note of the fact that they actually let us listen in for a while on Jim's history lesson with his daughter, which means they want us to take something away from this thematically.
1:36:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is an very important lesson in world history, close to my heart, where he's teaching his daughter how the punitive measures of world war one,
1:37:00
[SPEAKER_02]: led to World War II, like basically Germany was over punished after World War I and then ended up directly leading to a re-expansionist idea of like we don't deserve this.
1:37:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and not just bad, like becoming worse.
1:37:18
[SPEAKER_02]: right, whereas after World War II, there was more emphasis on helping Germany and Japan to rebuild and that by helping those who were your enemies.
1:37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: This is again, it's like the line in the Paul thing.
1:37:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You help those who were the aggressor to rehabilitate and it creates more stability and prosperity for the whole world.
1:37:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And it, he quotes Churchill, those who forget history or doomed to repeat it, which it feels very important at the moment.
1:37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:37:54
[SPEAKER_08]: Unfortunately.
1:37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:37:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I appreciated that this lesson is being drilled home twice.
1:38:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is going to have to do with this radical forgiveness that a radical atonement or whatever they said about the third movie's theme being.
1:38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but then, yeah, and of course this comes down to where Jim, we see him when his daughter asks, do we see the the two running with the infected by them and Jim's probably like, oh, I just wanted to chill day with my daughter.
1:38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and she asks, do we help them?
1:38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he noticeably pauses before he says, of course we do.
1:38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a token of a beat to get there.
1:38:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, yeah, of course we do, part of him wanted to say, no.
1:38:46
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I think that's kind of relatable when put into a, you know, tough circumstance or like for me.
1:38:53
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like whenever someone like introduces something new that we want we have to do immediately.
1:38:59
[SPEAKER_08]: I go like a part of me.
1:39:00
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like I'm going to track my feet and then I do, okay, let's do it.
1:39:04
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, uh, just, uh, and bless stakes than saving someone's life, but, um, right.
1:39:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:39:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're probably good at taking down zombies by now, but yeah.
1:39:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:39:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
1:39:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
1:39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, as this happens, we hear the original, the house in a heartbeat, uh, score from John Murphy from 28 days later, creeps in over the credits, which is just a perfect
1:39:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So, we know, in part 3, Killian Murphy, is going to be one of the stars, who else do you hope will come back?
1:39:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, from any of the movies so far?
1:39:49
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm guessing Spike's dad, Jamie, will be back in subcapacity.
1:39:55
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm trying to think of what the other one would be though.
1:40:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would love if we did get Selena and or Hannah, obviously, but I'm not holding my breath for it.
1:40:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:40:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I doubt we're going to get anyone from I think they're just like forget the second movie happen weeks.
1:40:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm tapping.
1:40:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Although imaging boots said she would come back and I say, why not.
1:40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, I guess most of all, I want to pick back up with like what's going on with with Jamie and the island people.
1:40:37
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I imagine they're Jamie still freaking out about how his son is missing and that there's a baby.
1:40:44
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, after part one.
1:40:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I noticed on Wikipedia, so I don't, this doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I noticed that the actor who played Sam in the last movie, the older man who told Spike that Kelsen was a doctor, he's listed as coming back in the third movie.
1:41:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I would assume that I'd just assume that, yeah, we have to close the loop and talk about this town, this community.
1:41:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we have two pieces of feedback, so we have from Kenw, uh, hello, just out of the cinema, absolutely love this movie.
1:41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll start by reminding everyone it's not a zombie virus.
1:41:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a rage virus.
1:41:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So, shown by Samson's view of what they see that brings out the rage in them.
1:41:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The Iron Maiden scene was quality, reminding me of the rocky road to Dublin scene in sinners.
1:41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Really at how it wrapped up the Jimmy's storyline and continued spikes.
1:41:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The surprise ending, it was so surprise for me.
1:41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It was great.
1:41:52
[SPEAKER_02]: The only gripe I have is Jaco Connell's Scottish accent.
1:41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It was all over the place.
1:41:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, eight out of ten for me, can't wait for the next installment in your chat about it.
1:42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I asked, so Ken W is from Dublin himself.
1:42:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So I asked how was O'Connell's Irish accent and sinners, and he said it was good, his father's from County Carey.
1:42:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So he would have used, he would be used to that type of accent, and he loves a bit of Irish dancing.
1:42:20
[SPEAKER_02]: For the record, the Irishman says, Jack O'Connell's Irish accent good, Scottish accent bad.
1:42:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then the other piece of feedback we got was from Dopamine, who says, I was shocked how brutal the Jimmy's were immediately and relentlessly with the ending of the prior film being sort of goofy, even though the brutality was hinted at repeatedly.
1:42:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I expected some degree of levity and it didn't give us any,
1:42:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm going to pause there because I don't know, do you think there is any levity in this film?
1:42:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, I think the levity, you know, came through differently in this film than in the other film or the other part one, because with part one, you kind of got uh, this, this, this, this, this old jerk guy.
1:43:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Right, right, right, right, and it's just like, yeah, and it's like, you just kind of can't help but laughing at like spikes reaction to like the that the idea of what the outside world does, you know, and that part, you know, so it's like more presently funny.
1:43:30
[SPEAKER_08]: I think like, um,
1:43:32
[SPEAKER_08]: While the scene itself was very, like, overall was serious.
1:43:36
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, the Iron Maiden, you know, performance, I kind of laughed.
1:43:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
1:43:41
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, maybe not laughed.
1:43:43
[SPEAKER_08]: But I was amused just because of, because you know, you can see how, how Kelsen is.
1:43:51
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, Ray, fine, you know, playing Kelsin, who's playing the devil and handing it up as the devil, and it's kind of, uh,
1:44:02
[SPEAKER_08]: Fantastic.
1:44:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
1:44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that the it's the same that I feel about a lot of things about comparing to the first 28 years to this one is that I feel like the first one got had more emotional depth more like the funnier moments hit harder, but then this one was more consistent
1:44:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I did, I did laugh at this one throughout, but I, I, I acknowledged that it's a dark sort of humor and maybe that says something about me.
1:44:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, dopamine says I also thought there would be some scene showing their training regimen because they ended that last film as complete badass is with their parkour marshal art crazy style.
1:44:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But they didn't seem tough in this film at all.
1:44:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Makes me wonder for seeing it all through spikes perspective.
1:44:56
[SPEAKER_02]: When they jumped down to help at the end of 28 years, they must look like some kind of superhero's despite.
1:45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we catch up, uh, catch back up with him, he's been around them long enough to see that they're both terrified and terrifying.
1:45:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe this accounts for the difference.
1:45:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so I responded to that that I agree about their brutality, but I did think you know I use that Jamema example as she Didn't appear tough, but then when it came down to it, she was absolutely brutal But I like what Dopamine said here about them being both terrified and Terrifying.
1:45:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
1:45:37
[SPEAKER_08]: kind of encapsulates kind of the power dynamic.
1:45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And dopamine concludes I fully agree that there are tough year examples spot on another way to say this maybe is that there was almost a band of pranksters vibe when we first saw them and they went berserker on those zombies.
1:45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It was over the top and the tone of the scene was crazy.
1:46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So I expected to see some of how they got those skills more than having to fight each other
1:46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: and some of some bit of the weird dystopian whimsy of that final scene, but instead, even though every one of those kids is tough, they are also way more traumatized and terrified of Jimmy Prime, not of zombies than I expected, does that make sense?
1:46:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think, I think that what she said,
1:46:32
[SPEAKER_02]: seeing through spikes perspective where, yeah, they must, it must have seen so miraculous and out of nowhere until he gets to know them.
1:46:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And indeed, you see, I guess that's the case with a lot of terrifying figures is when you see them more closely, more intimately, you see that they are also terrified.
1:46:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why they behave this way.
1:46:56
[SPEAKER_08]: I think that my thinking has a lot of sense.
1:46:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But they are also pretty badass when they move through the country side and just like the fact that they were just camping in the woods and they're like, yeah, if any infected shop will just kill them, that's just what we do.
1:47:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We just go all the infected.
1:47:11
[SPEAKER_02]: We're so sick of it.
1:47:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just there.
1:47:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like squatting flies to them.
1:47:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I imagine kind of infected killing an infected has kind of more rules than.
1:47:24
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, compared to other people, but even then, like, they're not afraid of hurting other people, clearly.
1:47:31
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I, oh, I lost my thought.
1:47:39
[SPEAKER_08]: That's ADHD for you.
1:47:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you have any final thoughts about the film overall?
1:47:47
[SPEAKER_08]: Great movie.
1:47:48
[SPEAKER_08]: I, you know,
1:47:50
[SPEAKER_08]: I hope the third one still happens and I hope this movie lets it come out on Netflix today as of when this episode comes out.
1:48:00
[SPEAKER_08]: That more people will give it a watch.
1:48:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go watch it again, or at least fast forward to the Iron Maiden scene.
1:48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we'll say goodbye to you here then, but listeners do stick around to find out what else is going on in the network after this, but Riley, talk again about what do you have coming up on your channel, biological Riley, which you can find linked in the show notes.
1:48:29
[SPEAKER_08]: Also, I am going to have my long overdue review of Wednesday season two out, so that should be out by the time this podcast release.
1:48:43
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay, and I'm currently working on some project Hail Mary kind of thanks as I read the book for the first time.
1:48:51
[SPEAKER_08]: I want to say I finished it like a week ago.
1:48:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, so I kind of have some, you know, fresh lots of the movie and video ideas for that.
1:49:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:49:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And you were, you were saying on the discord, you were a fan.
1:49:08
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, oh, yeah.
1:49:09
[SPEAKER_08]: It's, it's great movie.
1:49:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Is right.
1:49:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, of the book, too, I mean, yeah.
1:49:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I'm the book.
1:49:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
1:49:13
[SPEAKER_08]: I, both agree.
1:49:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to be honest, I have yet to hear anyone say anything negative about either.
1:49:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
1:49:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, well, thank you so much for joining again, and let's hope for Part 3 News soon.
1:49:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
1:49:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you again to Riley and yeah, Jean, we missed you, but you'll be able to hear Jean popping up on the other coverage.
1:49:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I know they're planning a wrap up for the Paradise season and he Luke and I are going to be doing periodic check-ins on the new season of Daredevil, which is running right now.
1:49:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So stay tuned for that and also for the conclusion of the one piece season two coverage with John and I followed later by some projectile Mary coverage and of course John and David's weekly the pit coverage.
1:50:07
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1:51:01
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1:51:59
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1:52:00
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1:52:11
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1:52:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye!
1:52:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, do you owe a sea of the devil's sentence of the beast with wrath?
1:52:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he knows the time is short.
1:52:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Let people who have understand the regret of a man on one of the beasts, for it is a human number.
1:52:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number, it's number.
1:52:56
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