Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 187. Courtney Dauwalter, Ultra Runner

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187. Courtney Dauwalter, Ultra Runner · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do something, you do it all the way.
0:03
Speaker 1: Don't float through the middle, go all in and try
0:06
Speaker 1: your very best edit and see what happens, because then
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Speaker 1: at least you'll know.
0:25
Speaker 2: What's going on.
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Speaker 3: Guys, Emily Abadi here coming to you live from the
0:28
Speaker 3: AG studio. You are listening to Hurdle, a wellness focused
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Speaker 3: podcast where I connect with everyone from your favorite athletes
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Speaker 3: to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs,
0:39
Speaker 3: toughest moments, and everything in between.
0:42
Speaker 2: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through.
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Speaker 3: These discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours
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Speaker 3: and move with intention so that you can stride towards
0:51
Speaker 3: your own big potential and of course have some fun
0:55
Speaker 3: along the way. For Episode one eighty seven, I am
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Speaker 3: a electrified I like that adjective for you today to
1:02
Speaker 3: chat with Courtney Doualter. She's, without a doubt, one of
1:06
Speaker 3: the best ultra runners in the world's period.
1:10
Speaker 2: Definitive statement.
1:11
Speaker 3: I know, but it's hard to combat really. I mean,
1:13
Speaker 3: she recently had a dominating performance at the Ultra Trail
1:18
Speaker 3: Cape Town, finishing in first place with a time of
1:21
Speaker 3: eleven hours twenty minutes and four seconds. Can you even
1:25
Speaker 3: imagine running moving for eleven hours?
1:29
Speaker 2: But that I mean, it's not small stuff.
1:31
Speaker 3: But it's just one of the zillions of unbelievable feats
1:36
Speaker 3: that this woman has overcome. And we talk about so
1:39
Speaker 3: many of those fantastic wins and excellent performances.
1:44
Speaker 2: In today's episode, we.
1:46
Speaker 3: Also get into exactly what ultra running is, right, what
1:50
Speaker 3: is this sport, how did she get into it, and
1:53
Speaker 3: what makes running an ultra so much different than any
1:57
Speaker 3: other race, from the fueling strategy to having a cur and.
2:00
Speaker 2: So much more. She also talk to me about.
2:03
Speaker 3: What her most valuable asset is to keep crushing at
2:06
Speaker 3: the competition.
2:07
Speaker 2: I'll give you a hint. It has nothing to do
2:09
Speaker 2: with the physical.
2:10
Speaker 3: And I also really need to note upfront that Courtney
2:13
Speaker 3: didn't even begin her professional running career until she was
2:16
Speaker 3: thirty two years old, leaving teaching behind to pursue this passion.
2:20
Speaker 3: So for anyone who is wondering if it is ever
2:23
Speaker 3: too late to make a pivot, I say no.
2:27
Speaker 2: But maybe more importantly here, Courtney.
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Speaker 3: Would definitely say hell no, follow your passions, do what
2:34
Speaker 3: you want to do. So amps on this conversation There's
2:37
Speaker 3: a lot of laughter in this conversation, which I also love,
2:39
Speaker 3: and Courtney is like one of the most humble humans ever.
2:43
Speaker 3: I felt like every time I wanted to highlight something
2:46
Speaker 3: unbelievable and awesome and exciting and fantastic that she has
2:50
Speaker 3: done or is doing, she always tried to turn the
2:53
Speaker 3: conversation back.
2:55
Speaker 2: To me, which is super kind.
2:57
Speaker 3: But I saw those games and I got her right
2:59
Speaker 3: back to talking about how she has.
3:01
Speaker 2: Become such a stellar athlete.
3:03
Speaker 3: So amazing, amazing to have this time with her, And
3:06
Speaker 3: thanks court forgiving to me. Before we get into today's episode,
3:10
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5:35
Speaker 2: Today.
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Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Courtney dou Walter. She is
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Speaker 3: arguably the please arguably what am I saying? She's the
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Speaker 3: best female ultrarunner of all time?
5:46
Speaker 2: How are you doing today, court Good?
5:49
Speaker 1: How are you?
5:50
Speaker 2: I'm so good, I'm so good.
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Speaker 3: I'm so amped to talk to you because, let me
5:54
Speaker 3: tell you, I have talked to many different types of
5:58
Speaker 3: people for the show, from elite athletes to top CEOs,
6:03
Speaker 3: from Andy Putacomb to a double leg amputee. But the
6:07
Speaker 3: amount of mental fortitude it takes to do what you
6:11
Speaker 3: do is truly remarkable. So I just I'm not trying
6:16
Speaker 3: to set the bar too high for you, but oh jeez, I.
6:21
Speaker 2: Feel like we've got some good stuff to talk about here.
6:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me on. This is fun.
6:27
Speaker 2: Of course.
6:28
Speaker 3: Of course, while we were just wrapping before, we started
6:30
Speaker 3: this audio about me running the New York City Marathon,
6:34
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is so kind of you
6:35
Speaker 3: to acknowledge my accomplishments, but I would love to first
6:40
Speaker 3: start us off here by acknowledging some of yours.
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Speaker 2: I mean, two time Ultrarunner of.
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Speaker 3: The year races, often in excess of two hundred miles.
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Speaker 3: You've beaten everyone at the MOB two forty, winning by
6:54
Speaker 3: more than ten hours. Like I could just keep going
6:56
Speaker 3: for probably like another five to seven minutes listing out
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Speaker 3: the unbelievable stuff that you've done.
7:01
Speaker 2: Do you think you'll ever stop doing this?
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Speaker 1: Oh? Man? I feel so lucky to have found ultra running,
7:10
Speaker 1: and I hope to be part of this sport in
7:14
Speaker 1: some way for my entire life. So I don't know
7:17
Speaker 1: how long I'll compete like I am, but I know
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Speaker 1: that it's a community that I love. I love people
7:25
Speaker 1: just going out there and trying something really hard, and
7:29
Speaker 1: like seeing that so tangibly in one hundred mile races
7:32
Speaker 1: or fifty mile races, you know, is just so special.
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Speaker 1: And then how everyone just celebrates together at the end,
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Speaker 1: crackspears and tells stories, and you become like this family
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Speaker 1: by the end of an ultra weekend. So I hope
7:46
Speaker 1: to be part of it as long as possible.
7:48
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.
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Speaker 3: Well, for those that aren't super well versed in ultras,
7:53
Speaker 3: I myself kind of started to really only truly understand
7:58
Speaker 3: the depth and breath of what the ultra running community
8:02
Speaker 3: is like within the past year. Why don't we kick
8:05
Speaker 3: things off here by providing a little bit of context,
8:08
Speaker 3: because an ultra is really anything over a marathon to
8:12
Speaker 3: start with.
8:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so we can do ultra running one oh
8:16
Speaker 1: one here.
8:17
Speaker 2: Let's do a quick over.
8:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then by the end of this podcast, maybe
8:23
Speaker 1: you'll be signing up for one.
8:25
Speaker 3: I'm not even lying, I won't even lie to you,
8:27
Speaker 3: Like it's one hundred percent on my bucket and like
8:30
Speaker 3: very much something like in the I would say next year,
8:34
Speaker 3: two years, that's that's definitely gonna get done.
8:37
Speaker 1: I love it. So an ultra is anything over a marathon.
8:41
Speaker 1: It could technically be twenty six point three miles would
8:44
Speaker 1: be an ultra marathon, but typically the distances are thirty
8:49
Speaker 1: one miles, fifty miles, sixty two miles, one hundred miles,
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Speaker 1: and then there's races that are two hundred or two
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Speaker 1: hundred and forty miles. They're on all surfaces, so there's
9:02
Speaker 1: ultras that are on roads, there's ultras on trails, and
9:07
Speaker 1: then there's even ultras that are run on four hundred
9:10
Speaker 1: meter tracks. So really you can get anything you want
9:15
Speaker 1: out of it. You can get as many hours as
9:17
Speaker 1: you want out of it. And for me, it's just
9:19
Speaker 1: been the coolest community. Like I got hooked on it
9:22
Speaker 1: because of the people in the sport and how open
9:26
Speaker 1: and welcoming they were to me when I knew nothing
9:30
Speaker 1: about it. I didn't know what I was doing at all,
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Speaker 1: and was Yeah, basically Bear hugged into it and taught
9:37
Speaker 1: the ways of like eating snacks and you know, moving
9:41
Speaker 1: as best you can for as long as you can,
9:43
Speaker 1: and all of the pieces with it.
9:45
Speaker 3: Why don't we start there right talking about your gateway
9:49
Speaker 3: or your entry point, not just to ultras, but let's
9:53
Speaker 3: just start with running. Were you always someone that enjoyed running?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of. I grew up in a very active family.
10:02
Speaker 1: I have two brothers, so I was just always trying
10:05
Speaker 1: to do everything and anything that they were. But the
10:09
Speaker 1: running part of sports teams was always a thing that
10:13
Speaker 1: I liked. Like at soccer practice, I loved when we
10:15
Speaker 1: got to do a fitness day and you know, run
10:18
Speaker 1: laps at the field instead of drills. So I got
10:23
Speaker 1: into cross country running and track starting in seventh grade,
10:28
Speaker 1: and yeah, fell in love with how you're in charge
10:32
Speaker 1: of yourself and you can leave as much of yourself
10:35
Speaker 1: out there as you want on that day. But also
10:39
Speaker 1: that it always felt like you're part of a team.
10:42
Speaker 1: So it was like this individual team sport combo that
10:46
Speaker 1: I really loved. And I have always loved how running
10:51
Speaker 1: made me feel like I do it to just think
10:55
Speaker 1: or to socialize or you know, to mollover problems that
10:59
Speaker 1: I'm having. So running was always a part of my
11:03
Speaker 1: days in middle school and high school.
11:06
Speaker 3: And then that love for running in middle school and
11:09
Speaker 3: high school translated to what when you got to college.
11:13
Speaker 1: In high school, I also joined the cross country ski
11:15
Speaker 1: team and went to college and continued to raise cross
11:20
Speaker 1: country skiing. But that's an endurance sport as well, so
11:25
Speaker 1: we were still, you know, running in the off seasons
11:27
Speaker 1: to train. I was still getting up in the mornings
11:31
Speaker 1: to get in my run before classes, just because I
11:34
Speaker 1: loved how it made me feel.
11:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
11:37
Speaker 3: And so at that point, you're you go to college,
11:41
Speaker 3: you're skiing all the time, another sport that you love.
11:46
Speaker 3: When do you take your love for running? Kind of
11:48
Speaker 3: like up on the distance front.
11:53
Speaker 1: I think after college, I just wanted something to sign
11:58
Speaker 1: up for, and I'd heard about all of these people
12:01
Speaker 1: doing road marathons. I thought it sounded insane to run
12:05
Speaker 1: twenty six point two miles. I was like, there's no
12:09
Speaker 1: way that I'll survive that, but I have to try
12:12
Speaker 1: because it sounds pretty cool. So after college, I signed
12:16
Speaker 1: up for a few road marathons and shocked myself when
12:19
Speaker 1: I didn't die during the races, and like my legs
12:24
Speaker 1: didn't shatter during the races. I couldn't believe that. And
12:27
Speaker 1: then I was just like, oh my gosh, I thought
12:31
Speaker 1: twenty six point two miles sounded impossible, and I just
12:34
Speaker 1: did it. So what else is there that sounds impossible
12:39
Speaker 1: that I could try, And that led me right into
12:42
Speaker 1: the ultra running world.
12:44
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the thing with running in general though,
12:46
Speaker 3: right It's like it is a reminder of your great potential,
12:51
Speaker 3: and that reminder translates to so many the other things.
12:55
Speaker 2: That we do in our day to day. I mean, I'm.
12:57
Speaker 3: Sure when you started running marathon at this point, were
13:01
Speaker 3: you uh were you teaching at this point?
13:04
Speaker 2: I was, yeah, And so did you.
13:06
Speaker 3: Find like that excitement to bring that like you can
13:09
Speaker 3: do anything to your students?
13:12
Speaker 2: Yeah?
13:12
Speaker 1: And I was coaching cross country, so it was like
13:15
Speaker 1: a cool bleedover of watching these kids, you know, try
13:19
Speaker 1: and run four hundred meters for the first time, or
13:22
Speaker 1: then you know, a couple weeks later do eight hundred
13:25
Speaker 1: meters and be so psyched on it. And it was like,
13:28
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how far we're going, actually, it's just
13:32
Speaker 1: that we're stacking these tiny little blocks up and getting
13:36
Speaker 1: a little bit better without even noticing it. Usually it
13:40
Speaker 1: like sneaks up on you, I think. And that's so
13:43
Speaker 1: cool about running.
13:44
Speaker 3: So you were saying that you kind of got bear
13:47
Speaker 3: hugged into your first ultra Talk me through how that
13:50
Speaker 3: went down.
13:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I signed up for a fifty k, which
13:56
Speaker 1: is thirty one miles. I thought that was the best
13:59
Speaker 1: entry distance because I'd done twenty six point two, so
14:03
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, what's five more? I could
14:06
Speaker 1: survive five more. I've got to try. And it's just
14:09
Speaker 1: like the chillest vibe at a trail ultra event. So
14:15
Speaker 1: like people are just chatting, We're you know, mosying through
14:19
Speaker 1: these beautiful woods. No one's like checking their pace or
14:24
Speaker 1: no one's watches are beeping. It's just like we're out
14:27
Speaker 1: just enjoying this day. And then you'd get to these
14:29
Speaker 1: aid stations and they're buffet lines of like every food
14:34
Speaker 1: you could imagine. I was like my brain exploded. I
14:38
Speaker 1: was like what we get to just eat jellybeans and
14:41
Speaker 1: casadillas and like spend the day outside. This is so cool.
14:47
Speaker 1: And so I knew when I finished that one that
14:50
Speaker 1: I had to see what else was possible. I had
14:53
Speaker 1: to find the next distance. So I signed up for
14:55
Speaker 1: a fifty mile race and that one was the one
14:59
Speaker 1: that like really cemented the bear hug. It was, I mean,
15:03
Speaker 1: horrendous weather, sideways, sleet, you know, every sign pointed to
15:10
Speaker 1: we should be grumbling and whining and hating our lives
15:14
Speaker 1: right now because we're just getting pelted out there in
15:17
Speaker 1: the elements. But like, I looked around at one point
15:20
Speaker 1: and people were just hooping and hollering, wearing garbage bags
15:24
Speaker 1: as jackets and like making the best of this experience.
15:29
Speaker 1: And I was like, that is so cool that these
15:32
Speaker 1: people are finding the joy in something that really, if
15:36
Speaker 1: you looked at it on paper, is like there's zero
15:40
Speaker 1: joy in that.
15:41
Speaker 3: You know. It reminds me of like the twenty eighteen
15:45
Speaker 3: Boston Marathon when it was like hailing and all the
15:47
Speaker 3: elites dropped and I was literally just like running in
15:51
Speaker 3: a black garbage bag. Yeah, and somehow decided after that
15:55
Speaker 3: that I wanted to keep running again.
15:57
Speaker 1: Yes, that's so cool that you were at that one.
16:00
Speaker 3: For you to say that you first of all, you
16:03
Speaker 3: went from thirty one to fifty, I feel like that's
16:05
Speaker 3: a pretty big jump.
16:06
Speaker 1: No, yes, but I recommend you follow the same path.
16:12
Speaker 1: It's gonna be great.
16:16
Speaker 2: If you tell yourself it's gonna be great, then it's
16:18
Speaker 2: gonna be great.
16:19
Speaker 1: And soon.
16:19
Speaker 3: I was listening to something else earlier today, and it
16:22
Speaker 3: was all about like how you present yourself right. And
16:24
Speaker 3: it's like, if you present yourself or show up to
16:26
Speaker 3: a scenario and you are confident and you present yourself
16:29
Speaker 3: in a certain way, then people are going to vibe
16:32
Speaker 3: off of that energy. Whereas if you walk into a
16:35
Speaker 3: situation completely doubting yourself, then you're already kind of setting
16:38
Speaker 3: yourself up for a disadvantage from the get go.
16:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, doubt in general just can grow and
16:45
Speaker 1: like fester in our brains, and so if you arrived
16:49
Speaker 1: to a scenario with it already growing, then it's trickier
16:53
Speaker 1: to fight off.
16:54
Speaker 3: I think I would agree, I would agree, I would
16:56
Speaker 3: co sign that. So for you, you also mention going
17:00
Speaker 3: from thirty one to fifty up from twenty six, we're
17:03
Speaker 3: just growing and growing and growing.
17:05
Speaker 2: So I think we know the trajectory that this is
17:06
Speaker 2: going on.
17:08
Speaker 3: You would reflect on maybe the post race soreness situation
17:14
Speaker 3: either escalated or didn't escalate for you, as the Miles
17:17
Speaker 3: would add up.
17:18
Speaker 1: Oh, it escalated, Yeah, I think. I mean I've been
17:24
Speaker 1: so that first fifty K was in two thousand and eleven,
17:29
Speaker 1: so I've been doing ultras now for ten years, and
17:34
Speaker 1: you're right, it has definitely snowballed in distances that took
17:38
Speaker 1: off pretty quickly. But the recovery was interesting because initially,
17:43
Speaker 1: after I would finish a fifty k or a fifty mile,
17:46
Speaker 1: or once I got up to that one hundred mile distance,
17:49
Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't walk normal for weeks afterwards. My
17:53
Speaker 1: legs and my feet were just swollen. My whole like
17:56
Speaker 1: body sort of felt off and like I isn't sleeping
18:00
Speaker 1: very well, maybe my appetite wouldn't be as great, but
18:05
Speaker 1: slowly over time and over like accumulating more of those
18:09
Speaker 1: building blocks where you know, my body was used to
18:13
Speaker 1: those miles a little bit more. I guess the recovery
18:17
Speaker 1: now is much quicker. So I I'm not sure the
18:21
Speaker 1: exact like reason for it. There's probably a lot of
18:24
Speaker 1: things factoring into it, but it's it's gone. Where now
18:29
Speaker 1: I can like get out jogging within a couple days
18:32
Speaker 1: of a long race Jesus.
18:35
Speaker 3: I mean it's And I try to put myself now
18:37
Speaker 3: like as a runner who aspires to do some sort
18:40
Speaker 3: of an ultra although like I'd have zero aspirations to go,
18:43
Speaker 3: you know, to the lengths that you have literally, but
18:46
Speaker 3: my for someone who hears you say this, and here's
18:50
Speaker 3: you talk about how bad it had been at certain points.
18:56
Speaker 3: I'm sure their first question is like, what does a
18:59
Speaker 3: doctor tell you about that situation? And at first when
19:02
Speaker 3: you started to rack up the miles, were you concerned
19:04
Speaker 3: about what was actually happening to your body?
19:08
Speaker 1: No? I think I know in general, I have always
19:18
Speaker 1: tried to like really tune into what my body is
19:21
Speaker 1: telling me, and so it made sense in my head
19:25
Speaker 1: that my legs and feet were sore after asking my
19:29
Speaker 1: body to run for fifty miles or whatever the distance was.
19:34
Speaker 1: So it didn't feel concerning. It was just like, oh man,
19:38
Speaker 1: we can figure this out better, I think. So then
19:41
Speaker 1: it was like, what are the other pieces involved? Like
19:45
Speaker 1: what else do I have to learn or grow on
19:48
Speaker 1: in order to get better at the recovery piece as well?
19:51
Speaker 2: Right? Right?
19:52
Speaker 3: And you mentioned the fifty mile raise your next up
19:56
Speaker 3: from the thirty one for you talk to us, talk
20:01
Speaker 3: to us a little bit about kind of what that
20:03
Speaker 3: actually looks like beyond the long buffet lines, because at
20:06
Speaker 3: that point fifty miles, you're out there for some time,
20:08
Speaker 3: and it's not just like you're going fifty miles without stopping,
20:13
Speaker 3: Like there's a lot of other things that someone who
20:16
Speaker 3: may not be familiar with ultra marathons wouldn't know happen
20:21
Speaker 3: during that time period.
20:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, so a fifty mile race
20:26
Speaker 1: is not pure running. You're going to try to move
20:31
Speaker 1: as efficiently as possible given how you're feeling or what
20:37
Speaker 1: the trail looks like if you're on you know, hills
20:40
Speaker 1: or downhill or flat or just kind of riding the waves.
20:44
Speaker 1: Basically of when you feel good, you try to take
20:47
Speaker 1: advantage of it, and when you feel bad, you try
20:50
Speaker 1: to problem solve so that you can feel good again. Yeah,
20:55
Speaker 1: it's like a jogging pace and a hike, a fast
20:59
Speaker 1: hiking pace on uphills. It's making sure you have a
21:03
Speaker 1: constant stream of energy coming in in the form of food.
21:07
Speaker 1: And I think it's definitely about enjoying the fact that
21:12
Speaker 1: you're doing this with your feet, like taking in the views,
21:16
Speaker 1: appreciating your body, Like I don't know, I just think
21:21
Speaker 1: it's so crazy when you think of how big a
21:23
Speaker 1: footstep is, like one stride length, and then you think
21:27
Speaker 1: of fifty miles, Like if you drive in a car
21:30
Speaker 1: and the sign says that a gas station is fifty
21:33
Speaker 1: miles away, that seems absurd. You're like, oh, we'll never
21:36
Speaker 1: make it. I'm so hungry. But but by just piecing
21:41
Speaker 1: together those small steps, you can get there. And it's
21:46
Speaker 1: like so cool to experience that.
21:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean not to like, you know, jump ahead
21:52
Speaker 3: too much, but foreshadowing like two hundred and eighty three
21:55
Speaker 3: miles in one file swoop. It's like I would imagine
21:59
Speaker 3: that like two d three miles would probably be to
22:01
Speaker 3: like Washington, d C.
22:03
Speaker 2: Let's just say that that's just nuts.
22:05
Speaker 1: It's pretty far, but far. You just take it one
22:08
Speaker 1: step at a time, and like like anything, so probably
22:12
Speaker 1: in your marathon, there were points where it felt overwhelming
22:16
Speaker 1: and then you're just like, oh, that telephone poll or
22:19
Speaker 1: the next water stop, like I can do that, And
22:22
Speaker 1: so you just think of that small bit you know
22:25
Speaker 1: you can do, and then when you get there, you
22:28
Speaker 1: figure out what the next small bit is that you
22:31
Speaker 1: know you can do again.
22:33
Speaker 3: I love that idea of just breaking it up to
22:35
Speaker 3: little doables. I just made a note of what you said,
22:37
Speaker 3: problems solve when things get bad, so that you can
22:40
Speaker 3: figure out how to feel good again. And I think
22:42
Speaker 3: that that mentality is potentially so valuable for so many
22:48
Speaker 3: people who have who have difficulty breaking it up like that, right.
22:53
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because they get overwhelmed easily, or maybe it's
22:58
Speaker 3: because it's hard to take step back and think of
23:01
Speaker 3: the bigger picture when things may not be going as.
23:04
Speaker 2: Planned in that moment.
23:06
Speaker 3: Now, you talked about a couple of entry races here,
23:09
Speaker 3: but was that fifty mil or would you say that
23:12
Speaker 3: was the first time that you really felt like you
23:14
Speaker 3: really had to implement that mentality to the fullest as
23:17
Speaker 3: the weather was just so out of control.
23:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And then in my first hundred mile race,
23:24
Speaker 1: which was the next one, I mean, it went the
23:27
Speaker 1: total opposite way where I didn't problem solve and I
23:30
Speaker 1: let that doubt just grow in my mind and I
23:33
Speaker 1: became really negative to myself in my head, like the
23:38
Speaker 1: things I was saying to myself during that first hundred
23:41
Speaker 1: mile attempt, or basically like what are you doing out
23:46
Speaker 1: here thinking you can go one hundred miles? Like you
23:50
Speaker 1: should quit? This is a joke that you're here. You know,
23:53
Speaker 1: who did you think you were that you were going
23:55
Speaker 1: to do ultra marathons? Basically? And that grew into this
23:59
Speaker 1: giant like blocker in my brain that shut down my
24:03
Speaker 1: whole body, and I quit that first hundred mile race
24:06
Speaker 1: because I forgot to problem solve until it feels good again.
24:11
Speaker 1: Like I just when things went south, I suddenly like
24:15
Speaker 1: gave it way too much weight and let it grow
24:18
Speaker 1: way too large in my head and didn't actually fix
24:22
Speaker 1: anything with it.
24:24
Speaker 3: It's interesting because you know there's two mindsets, right. Sometimes
24:29
Speaker 3: it's like the DNF, so to speak or not continuing
24:34
Speaker 3: at times can be the right decision. And we'll talk
24:38
Speaker 3: about you know, when you maybe have had to pull
24:41
Speaker 3: out as we.
24:42
Speaker 2: Go along here.
24:43
Speaker 3: But for some it is that mental fortitude that we're
24:48
Speaker 3: talking about the building of that, the persisting when things
24:51
Speaker 3: get hard, that is really the reward within the journey.
24:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thankful for that first experience because it taught
25:00
Speaker 1: me how strong our brains are. Like when I reflected afterwards,
25:04
Speaker 1: I was like, your legs were hurting, but everyone's legs
25:09
Speaker 1: were hurting. You know, that's a far away is to go.
25:11
Speaker 1: So of course you are feeling tired, but your brain
25:15
Speaker 1: is the thing that caused you to quit. Because I
25:18
Speaker 1: just had thrown in the towel mentally, and so it
25:21
Speaker 1: triggered this whole realization for me of how strong our
25:26
Speaker 1: brains are and how important it is what we say
25:29
Speaker 1: to ourselves in our heads, even if we know we're lying. Sometimes,
25:34
Speaker 1: you know, I'll be like throwing up in the bushes,
25:37
Speaker 1: and I'm like talking positively to myself, like, yeah, this
25:41
Speaker 1: is perfect, this is great, everything is going great. This
25:44
Speaker 1: is just fine, you know, when maybe it's not. But
25:48
Speaker 1: as long as I'm staying positive in my head, I
25:50
Speaker 1: feel like it helps me think more clearly and then
25:55
Speaker 1: move past the problem with like some solution ideas.
26:00
Speaker 2: I like this.
26:01
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about the difference between being realistic with a
26:05
Speaker 3: positive spin and maybe like that cusp of toxic positivity, right,
26:10
Speaker 3: because I think that a lot of people hear something
26:13
Speaker 3: like that and they might be like, well, that's bull Like, yeah,
26:17
Speaker 3: how am I supposed to be like this is really
26:19
Speaker 3: good for me when I'm like literally vomiting in the bushes.
26:21
Speaker 3: But I do think that you can be realistic and
26:24
Speaker 3: kind right, because there's no I'm not saying like maybe
26:29
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be like as positive as you were, but
26:32
Speaker 3: I think that I would say something like you're fine,
26:34
Speaker 3: Like let's start there, right, Like let's start at a baseline,
26:37
Speaker 3: Let's start a place that's giving you the facts of
26:41
Speaker 3: the situation so that you can move forward and do
26:43
Speaker 3: the best you can with what you have.
26:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly it. And that is what I'll usually
26:47
Speaker 1: say to myself is just this is fine. Whatever is happening,
26:51
Speaker 1: you know, however I'm feeling, whatever problem I'm navigating through
26:56
Speaker 1: or around or over, I'm like, this is fine. This
26:59
Speaker 1: is how it's going to go, and that's okay. And
27:03
Speaker 1: I do think that it's part the positivity that can
27:07
Speaker 1: help feed like your physical body forward motion. But it
27:12
Speaker 1: also just slows down your system of like not freaking out,
27:17
Speaker 1: not whirl pooling yourself into this, like you know, making
27:21
Speaker 1: a mountain out of a mole hill or whatever. You know.
27:24
Speaker 1: It like just stops you for a second to think
27:27
Speaker 1: through what's happening and what you can try to make
27:30
Speaker 1: it better.
27:31
Speaker 3: And we're obviously talking about the mental here. You just
27:34
Speaker 3: said the term physical body. How much of what you
27:37
Speaker 3: do would you say is the mental versus the physical
27:42
Speaker 3: or will you just say that they compliment on each other.
27:45
Speaker 1: For sure, they compliment one another during a race. I
27:49
Speaker 1: think of it as like two bars on a bar
27:52
Speaker 1: graph that are just like passing the load back and
27:55
Speaker 1: forth through the whole race. So sometimes maybe physical you
28:00
Speaker 1: can do it all and you don't need any of
28:02
Speaker 1: that mental strength, and then slowly maybe the mental side
28:07
Speaker 1: becomes more important. And at some points it's pure mental
28:12
Speaker 1: for me, Like there will be moments where I just
28:14
Speaker 1: feel like I can't take another step, but in my brain,
28:19
Speaker 1: I just tell myself to take one more, and that's
28:22
Speaker 1: what's actually the engine at that point is pure just
28:26
Speaker 1: mental like stubbornness. And then what I've found is it
28:32
Speaker 1: doesn't when it goes over to the mental side, it's
28:34
Speaker 1: not that the physical game is over, Like your body
28:38
Speaker 1: comes back too, So it like you ride these waves
28:41
Speaker 1: of like highs and lows of feeling really good running
28:45
Speaker 1: and then having to use your brain, and then feeling
28:48
Speaker 1: really good running and then having to use your brain.
28:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
28:51
Speaker 3: I've heard that analogy before of having two buckets and
28:55
Speaker 3: they both have a hole in it, and if you
28:57
Speaker 3: spend all of your time trying to fill up one
29:00
Speaker 3: of them and you let the other one bleed out
29:02
Speaker 3: completely or leak out completely, then you're going to realize, like, shoot,
29:06
Speaker 3: I needed what was in that first bucket that I
29:08
Speaker 3: just didn't give any attention to.
29:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a cool one for you.
29:13
Speaker 3: You mentioned having to drop out of that hundred mile race.
29:17
Speaker 3: How did you pick yourself up after that hurdle?
29:20
Speaker 1: So I had dropped because I had given up on myself.
29:23
Speaker 1: And when I watched the finish line of this race
29:27
Speaker 1: and saw all of these people who had pushed through
29:31
Speaker 1: to make it to that finish line, I instantly decided
29:35
Speaker 1: I didn't care if I was a person who was
29:38
Speaker 1: supposed to run one hundred miles. I was going to
29:41
Speaker 1: run a hundred miles and I wanted to figure it out.
29:44
Speaker 1: And so then it was like going to the drawing
29:47
Speaker 1: board of like, you know, what could I do better
29:51
Speaker 1: to prepare myself for one hundred mile race one year
29:55
Speaker 1: from now? And like, you know, there's so many people
29:59
Speaker 1: with so much knowledge out there, So it was like
30:01
Speaker 1: getting on the Google machine and just like, you know,
30:04
Speaker 1: what gear do people use? What do people eat? Like
30:07
Speaker 1: how could I put some races throughout my year that
30:10
Speaker 1: helped me build towards one hundred miles? And then when
30:13
Speaker 1: I stood on the start line of that one hundred
30:16
Speaker 1: one year later, it was like, I'm finishing this thing.
30:20
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out as we go to problem solve
30:23
Speaker 1: and like get through those hundred miles.
30:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's interesting to think about training for one
30:30
Speaker 3: hundred mile race because, for instance, if you google how
30:34
Speaker 3: long does do I need to train for a marathon,
30:37
Speaker 3: most websites will tell you between like fourteen and twenty weeks, right,
30:41
Speaker 3: depending on your level of fitness. So when you google
30:44
Speaker 3: how long do I need to train for an ultra
30:46
Speaker 3: of one hundred miles?
30:48
Speaker 2: I mean, what is it that you even find?
30:52
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool because the sport is definitely growing, and
30:56
Speaker 1: so there's starting to be more information out there, Like
31:00
Speaker 1: there's books about it now, there's all sorts of you know,
31:04
Speaker 1: knowledgeable people on the interwebs who have like put their
31:08
Speaker 1: two cents out there of what helps. But I decided
31:13
Speaker 1: like I don't want to coach. I want to just
31:15
Speaker 1: figure out this puzzle by myself because that sounded fun.
31:20
Speaker 1: Like I was like, that's part of the intrigue of
31:21
Speaker 1: this sport for me right now, is like figuring out
31:24
Speaker 1: all of the pieces that I don't even know exists,
31:27
Speaker 1: Like how many pieces is this puzzle? I had no idea,
31:30
Speaker 1: you know, So I was just like, let's start with
31:34
Speaker 1: what we can do and then as the pieces like
31:37
Speaker 1: show themselves to be another thing to figure out. Then
31:41
Speaker 1: we'll just figure that out too.
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35:09
Speaker 3: I love the word that you just used, fun, right
35:12
Speaker 3: Like it's fun for me to figure out. Not that
35:14
Speaker 3: long ago, I spoke to someone on the show and
35:17
Speaker 3: we talked a lot about goal setting and what goes
35:19
Speaker 3: into it. And I loved when we talked about setting
35:22
Speaker 3: a goal that the expert had advised to write out,
35:26
Speaker 3: you know, all of the steps that you would need
35:29
Speaker 3: to take if you did a little bit of research
35:31
Speaker 3: just like you did, and figure out if those steps
35:35
Speaker 3: sound fun, right, Like, you could have a goal that
35:38
Speaker 3: sounds fun, but if getting to that goal is going
35:41
Speaker 3: to be absolutely miserable, then what's the point of chasing
35:44
Speaker 3: that goal at all? And so I love for you
35:47
Speaker 3: in this, like, Yeah, I think it's a little bit
35:49
Speaker 3: crazy to go after that type of goal without any
35:52
Speaker 3: sort of coaching, But I do think that it's really
35:54
Speaker 3: special and a testament to the fact that you probably
35:57
Speaker 3: from a young age, had people in your life that
36:00
Speaker 3: taught you to go after what you want.
36:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean I was raised. My parents
36:06
Speaker 1: are amazing, and they basically instilled in us that, like,
36:10
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do something, you do it all the way,
36:14
Speaker 1: don't float through the middle. If you're gonna do it,
36:17
Speaker 1: go all in and try your very best at it
36:19
Speaker 1: and see what happens. Because then at least you'll know.
36:23
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, sports were like that,
36:25
Speaker 1: but also just like life things like friendships or school
36:29
Speaker 1: projects or you know, anything we were taking on. They
36:32
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, yeah, you can do that, but if
36:35
Speaker 1: you're going to try it, like do it, like go
36:38
Speaker 1: all the way. So I feel like that's like bled
36:41
Speaker 1: through a lot of things in my life.
36:44
Speaker 2: So how does the one hundred miler go?
36:48
Speaker 1: The second attempt at it? Yeah, yeah, I made it.
36:52
Speaker 1: It was so cool. So I had my husband and
36:58
Speaker 1: my brother and my dad. It was in Minnesota, which
37:01
Speaker 1: is where I'm from, which made it feel really special,
37:05
Speaker 1: and none of us knew what we were doing, but
37:08
Speaker 1: we knew that we were getting to that finish line
37:11
Speaker 1: and we'd figure it out. And so yeah, I mean
37:15
Speaker 1: it was just one step at a time, basically, especially
37:19
Speaker 1: towards the end. One step was all I could think about,
37:24
Speaker 1: and slowly those steps added up to a finish line.
37:28
Speaker 3: And you say we, which I think is a really
37:31
Speaker 3: important thing for us to touch on right here, because
37:34
Speaker 3: oftentimes in ultrarunning, you will assemble some sort of like
37:39
Speaker 3: a pit crew per se of friends, family, acquaintances, et
37:44
Speaker 3: cetera who can help you on your journey to get
37:47
Speaker 3: to your big goal.
37:48
Speaker 2: So talk us through how that works in that scenario.
37:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really cool. Part of ultra running is
37:56
Speaker 1: the ability to have a crew or even pace, And
38:00
Speaker 1: so a crew would be whoever you can coerce into
38:04
Speaker 1: spending their weekend with you. Bribery always helps, but they
38:13
Speaker 1: get to meet you at aid stations along the way,
38:16
Speaker 1: so maybe you see them every like six to twenty miles,
38:23
Speaker 1: depending on the stretch of terrain that you're covering. And
38:26
Speaker 1: when they meet you there, they can have any extra
38:30
Speaker 1: gear for you, they can have specific snacks or food
38:33
Speaker 1: that you request, and they can just be like that
38:37
Speaker 1: friendly face that knows what to say and when to
38:40
Speaker 1: say it, and can, you know, deliver a joke if
38:43
Speaker 1: you need it, or just give you a big hug
38:46
Speaker 1: and send you on your way if that's what you need.
38:49
Speaker 1: So ultra running for sure feels like a team sport
38:54
Speaker 1: because of that aspect of it. And then some races
38:57
Speaker 1: allow a pacer to jump in with you, so one
39:00
Speaker 1: of those crew members could run with you for a
39:04
Speaker 1: stretch of the race, like they could run you to
39:07
Speaker 1: the next aid station twenty miles away, and so then
39:10
Speaker 1: you get to share those twenty miles together, which is
39:14
Speaker 1: my absolute favorite part, just because I think the memories
39:18
Speaker 1: that we make with people is what it's all about.
39:21
Speaker 1: And so to have that specific, you know, set of
39:24
Speaker 1: miles with that friend or husband or sibling is like,
39:30
Speaker 1: I mean, those are memories that last forever.
39:33
Speaker 3: I love how you worded it that they get to
39:36
Speaker 3: meet you at these aid stations.
39:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like driving out in the middle of nowhere,
39:45
Speaker 1: surviving on gas station food.
39:48
Speaker 3: And I mean you mentioned earlier the different types of
39:51
Speaker 3: ultras that there are, right, Like, obviously there are trail ultras,
39:54
Speaker 3: there are out and backs. There are you mentioned doing
39:57
Speaker 3: one on a track, which is just insanity to me.
40:00
Speaker 3: But then also what is popularly referred to as a
40:04
Speaker 3: backyard ultra, So what does that mean?
40:07
Speaker 1: A backyard ultra is a sort of new format that
40:11
Speaker 1: was a brainchild of this guy named Lazarus Lake, who's
40:16
Speaker 1: also the race director for a race called the Barkley.
40:19
Speaker 1: So people may have seen that Netflix documentary. If you haven't,
40:23
Speaker 1: you should look it up. But he came up with
40:26
Speaker 1: this idea of giving people the opportunity to see how
40:31
Speaker 1: far they can go if the format is set up
40:36
Speaker 1: for success in distance. So he said, in this backyard format,
40:41
Speaker 1: people will run four miles every hour and that's it.
40:45
Speaker 1: That's as far as you can go, and then you'll
40:47
Speaker 1: just wait until the next hour and go again. And
40:51
Speaker 1: so four miles an hour. I mean, it is like
40:55
Speaker 1: a decently sustainable pace for quite a while. And it's
41:02
Speaker 1: a really cool format because the only way that you're
41:06
Speaker 1: out of the race is if you drop, so you
41:09
Speaker 1: say I won't do anymore, or you don't make it
41:12
Speaker 1: back in time. But for the most part, people may
41:15
Speaker 1: get back in time, and then they're sitting there and
41:18
Speaker 1: they're thinking, like four miles in one hour, like I
41:22
Speaker 1: can do one more loop, and so then they get
41:24
Speaker 1: up and they do another loop and end up shocking
41:27
Speaker 1: themselves with how far they can go. I did a
41:31
Speaker 1: backyard format a few years back, and one person there
41:35
Speaker 1: was like, my goal today is to run my first marathon.
41:40
Speaker 1: So four miles an hour, four marathon. Do you know
41:44
Speaker 1: how many miles? They ended up doing?
41:46
Speaker 2: How many?
41:47
Speaker 1: Like seventy two because they kept sitting there and then
41:53
Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, I can do one more lap, So
41:56
Speaker 1: they'd get out of the chair and they'd start the
41:58
Speaker 1: next lap. And then there's four more miles and then
42:01
Speaker 1: they'd be like, oh, I'm done. There's no way, I'm
42:03
Speaker 1: over a marathon. But then they'd be like, I'll do
42:06
Speaker 1: another lap, and it's so cool, Like what a way
42:10
Speaker 1: to see what's possible by setting up a race with
42:13
Speaker 1: this crazy format.
42:15
Speaker 3: I think that I mean, that mentality is what caught
42:18
Speaker 3: on with the Goggins Challenge over the last year and
42:21
Speaker 3: a half. Right, Like people all over the country and
42:24
Speaker 3: the world all started just going out and running a
42:27
Speaker 3: handful of miles every hour over what was it like
42:30
Speaker 3: forty eight hours?
42:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so cool. It's the same thing, and
42:36
Speaker 1: it sounds impossible. If you sit there and you mull
42:38
Speaker 1: it over, you're like, oh my legs, my feet hurt
42:41
Speaker 1: so bad, there's no way. But then you just do it.
42:45
Speaker 1: It's like all those steps bring you back to four
42:48
Speaker 1: more miles and then you've got one more lap under
42:51
Speaker 1: your belt. That's so cool.
42:53
Speaker 2: It's so cool. It's so cool.
42:54
Speaker 3: So at this point, after completing that one hundred miler,
42:59
Speaker 3: you must feel on top of the world. Talk to
43:02
Speaker 3: me about when you start to realize like, not only
43:06
Speaker 3: did I just do that, but I'm actually pretty good
43:10
Speaker 3: at this, very good at this.
43:12
Speaker 1: In fact, what I knew when I finished that first
43:18
Speaker 1: hundred is that I liked it and I wanted to
43:22
Speaker 1: try again and see if I could do it better, because,
43:26
Speaker 1: like I don't know, you get it, you get that
43:29
Speaker 1: finished one time, like any race distance, you know, a
43:33
Speaker 1: five k or ten k, you do it one time,
43:35
Speaker 1: and like you can reflect back and think of all
43:38
Speaker 1: of the things in your training or during the race
43:41
Speaker 1: that might have helped make it better. That's then what
43:43
Speaker 1: I wanted to do moving forward is like reflect on
43:46
Speaker 1: this one hundred mile distance, on my training, on everything
43:50
Speaker 1: I did to lead up to it and during it
43:53
Speaker 1: and make it so it was better.
43:55
Speaker 3: It's so interesting, right because I would I would argue
43:57
Speaker 3: that you and I are both growth mindset people.
44:00
Speaker 2: And I think about those.
44:02
Speaker 3: Individuals that just want to check off a marathon on
44:05
Speaker 3: their bucket list and they do the marathon, but somehow
44:09
Speaker 3: after it's done, they don't get that itch, and like
44:13
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily understand those people, Like I'm I'm not
44:16
Speaker 3: trying to shade them. I'm so proud of their accomplishment,
44:20
Speaker 3: whether you know it's going out to run for two
44:22
Speaker 3: minutes or going out to run for two hundred miles.
44:24
Speaker 3: But it still blows my mind that you can taste
44:28
Speaker 3: how awesome it is to push your own potential and
44:30
Speaker 3: be like, you know what, I'm good.
44:32
Speaker 1: Maybe, though, then they're just pivoting and they want to, like,
44:36
Speaker 1: you know, dabble in as many different cool challenges as possible.
44:39
Speaker 2: We'll give them that benefit of that doubt. We'll give
44:41
Speaker 2: them that bete of it doubt.
44:42
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, so you realize that you want to do
44:45
Speaker 3: it better, talk to me, let's fast forward a little
44:47
Speaker 3: bit and bring this like up in the mileage, right,
44:50
Speaker 3: So you want to do it better. You conquer the
44:52
Speaker 3: hundred again, and then this just starts to become like
44:55
Speaker 3: kind of a regular thing for you, so much so
44:58
Speaker 3: that you leave your job teaching.
45:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my first retirement.
45:07
Speaker 3: Talk me through that thought process and like kind of
45:09
Speaker 3: probably that was a really surreal moment for you.
45:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy, and I'm still pinching myself that like,
45:15
Speaker 1: this is what I'm doing right now with my life.
45:18
Speaker 1: But I had done a bunch of one hundred mile
45:22
Speaker 1: races at that point, a bunch of you know, shorter
45:25
Speaker 1: distance ultras, and I loved it. I loved everything about
45:29
Speaker 1: the sport and the training and the racing and the community,
45:33
Speaker 1: and I just felt like I wasn't all in on
45:36
Speaker 1: it like I wanted to be because of like a
45:41
Speaker 1: normal work schedule. And so my husband and I were
45:45
Speaker 1: just chatting about life and like, you know, the fact
45:48
Speaker 1: that we get to choose our path that we take,
45:51
Speaker 1: and we talked about when we're ninety and we're sitting
45:54
Speaker 1: on our rocking chairs and we're looking back at this moment,
45:58
Speaker 1: are we going to wonder what if or what could
46:01
Speaker 1: have been if we had gone all in on ultra running?
46:05
Speaker 1: And so we were like, well, what's the harm in trying?
46:08
Speaker 1: Like the worst thing that happens is I realize that
46:12
Speaker 1: it's not going to work or this lifestyle isn't for us,
46:15
Speaker 1: and then I pivot back and find a job again.
46:18
Speaker 1: So it was like, this is a nice little side
46:21
Speaker 1: detour we can try out and just see. And I
46:24
Speaker 1: was really nervous that I was going to start to
46:29
Speaker 1: not like running because switching to having it be a
46:33
Speaker 1: job as opposed to this thing that I got to
46:36
Speaker 1: do for fun all of the time was like, oh
46:39
Speaker 1: my gosh, Like what if suddenly I lose this outlet
46:42
Speaker 1: that I have that I've had my whole life of
46:44
Speaker 1: you know, how I want to spend my time or
46:47
Speaker 1: mentally recharge, But that didn't happen. Like it's still a blast.
46:53
Speaker 1: I still love it so much and it doesn't feel
46:58
Speaker 1: any different now that it is my job.
47:00
Speaker 2: What year is retirement number one?
47:03
Speaker 1: That was in twenty seventeen in the summer.
47:05
Speaker 3: Okay, there has to be some level of maybe anxiety
47:11
Speaker 3: that goes hand in hand with that running becoming your job,
47:14
Speaker 3: because now whereas you used to you know, leave your
47:18
Speaker 3: house and maybe go to school or like be working
47:21
Speaker 3: on lessons plans, Like what did a week start to
47:25
Speaker 3: look like for you?
47:26
Speaker 1: I knew that I didn't want to lose running as
47:29
Speaker 1: this love that I had, So just having that like
47:32
Speaker 1: be acknowledged and framing everything for me made it so
47:36
Speaker 1: that it didn't change the feeling that I had. So
47:39
Speaker 1: I didn't suddenly have anxiety about my performances. I didn't
47:43
Speaker 1: have anxiety about you know, training. Basically, I just had
47:47
Speaker 1: a wide open day and all of these puzzle pieces
47:50
Speaker 1: of ultra running that I still was tinkering with, and
47:53
Speaker 1: so I got to just play with those and get
47:57
Speaker 1: in some more like concentrated amounts of training, so instead
48:03
Speaker 1: of like piecemealing together, you know, forty five minutes at
48:07
Speaker 1: a time a couple times throughout the day. Now I
48:09
Speaker 1: could get in a long run on a Tuesday of
48:13
Speaker 1: you know, hours or whatever. So yeah, it was crazy
48:19
Speaker 1: and cool and I feel really lucky that I'm still
48:24
Speaker 1: doing it and still loving it.
48:26
Speaker 3: What would you say after you started this new chapter
48:31
Speaker 3: making this your career, when you felt you really arrived
48:35
Speaker 3: into it, when you felt like you had truly made
48:39
Speaker 3: your name as this woman that was about to change.
48:44
Speaker 2: I would argue, this sport forever. I don't know, You're like,
48:49
Speaker 2: how are you saying this to me?
48:53
Speaker 1: It's such a cool sport. I can't wait for you
48:55
Speaker 1: to do a fifty.
48:56
Speaker 3: Kid, stop deflecting my own question back at me and
49:00
Speaker 3: talk to me about your big accomplishments all right after,
49:05
Speaker 3: Because you don't go just jump from one hundred to
49:07
Speaker 3: G forty.
49:08
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen like that.
49:09
Speaker 1: No, it was a lot of hundreds and slowly, Like
49:12
Speaker 1: we were talking about recovery time earlier, recovery time was
49:16
Speaker 1: getting better, Like I wasn't feeling so wrecked after every
49:20
Speaker 1: big effort, like that, and so it was like I
49:24
Speaker 1: don't know, like, oh my gosh are the building blocks?
49:27
Speaker 1: The base has gotten bigger, and so now you know
49:31
Speaker 1: what else could we do with that? Let's see what
49:33
Speaker 1: else is out there? And there happens to be race
49:36
Speaker 1: directors now who are making races of two hundred plus miles,
49:41
Speaker 1: So obviously I had to try it.
49:45
Speaker 3: Did anyone like in your inner circle when you like
49:48
Speaker 3: started to say like, so I think I'm going to
49:50
Speaker 3: do this thing next? Was anyone ever surprised? Did anyone
49:53
Speaker 3: ever maybe give you like a are you sure you
49:55
Speaker 3: want to do this? Or was this just like everyone
49:58
Speaker 3: was on your level of crazy?
49:59
Speaker 1: Mostly everyone was just like, yeah, okay, try it, Like
50:03
Speaker 1: why not? So like initially my family and friends, you know,
50:07
Speaker 1: I was getting into ultras were like what is this sport?
50:10
Speaker 1: Like you're telling me people do that for fun, like
50:13
Speaker 1: you're running one hundred miles because you want to. But
50:17
Speaker 1: over the years then they were like all in on it.
50:20
Speaker 1: They got it. You know how cool the community was.
50:23
Speaker 1: They came to stuff and got immersed in it. So
50:27
Speaker 1: I think when I called like friends or my parents
50:30
Speaker 1: and I said, I'm doing this two hundred and forty
50:32
Speaker 1: mile race. They were like, okay, yeah, cool, is there
50:35
Speaker 1: a way to track it?
50:37
Speaker 2: Can we keep track of you?
50:38
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's like the meanest part of it all is
50:43
Speaker 1: there is tracking usually, so my dad or my whole
50:47
Speaker 1: family really during a race that's two hundred and forty
50:50
Speaker 1: miles takes a while, so it's like days of running
50:54
Speaker 1: and they'll just be like refreshing, like their hand is
50:57
Speaker 1: just stuck in that refresh like position for their phones
51:02
Speaker 1: for I mean fifty eight hours. That's a really long
51:06
Speaker 1: time to be like thinking about someone running.
51:11
Speaker 3: I think that again, like going back to the idea
51:15
Speaker 3: of someone hearing you, like being excited on taking out
51:19
Speaker 3: all of these challenges. Like so many times we hear
51:22
Speaker 3: stories of endurance athletes and that question is like is
51:25
Speaker 3: this person okay, Like is there something that you're trying
51:28
Speaker 3: to run from or do you think rather that there's
51:30
Speaker 3: something that you're trying to run too.
51:32
Speaker 1: I think I'm running towards something. So what's keeping me
51:36
Speaker 1: in the sport and signing up for these long efforts
51:39
Speaker 1: is just a curiosity for what's possible. I think from
51:44
Speaker 1: the beginning, like the fact that I kept like shocking
51:48
Speaker 1: myself that you know, I didn't die running fifty k.
51:52
Speaker 1: I didn't die running fifty miles. I didn't die running
51:55
Speaker 1: one hundred miles. And all of the puzzle pieces kind
51:59
Speaker 1: of emerging made it so it was like, Oh, my gosh,
52:01
Speaker 1: what's actually possible. I don't think we know yet what
52:06
Speaker 1: can happen when our bodies and our brains are putting
52:10
Speaker 1: all of their effort into this sport.
52:12
Speaker 3: Talk me through the first two hundred plus mile race.
52:16
Speaker 1: It was in Moab. It was two hundred and forty
52:19
Speaker 1: miles Moabs in Utah. It's very beautiful canyon desert y
52:25
Speaker 1: sort of terrain. But then there's also this mountain range
52:29
Speaker 1: over there in Utah called the LaSalle Mountains that are
52:32
Speaker 1: classic mountains like rocky and snowy and forested and stuff.
52:38
Speaker 1: And so this two hundred and forty mile race makes
52:42
Speaker 1: a huge two hundred and forty mile loop that takes
52:45
Speaker 1: you through the desert and canyons and then into those
52:49
Speaker 1: big high altitude mountains as well. So it just has
52:53
Speaker 1: this like really cool variety of terrain. And for sure
52:58
Speaker 1: I have the same feelings standing on that start line
53:00
Speaker 1: of my first fifty k or my first marathon where
53:03
Speaker 1: I was like oh my gosh, two hundred and forty miles, Like,
53:06
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna make it, but I'm
53:09
Speaker 1: gonna try. So I was, yeah, shocked to make it
53:16
Speaker 1: all two hundred and forty.
53:18
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, how long does something like that
53:20
Speaker 2: take you?
53:21
Speaker 1: That one took me fifty eight hours.
53:23
Speaker 3: And in those fifty hours, how many hours of sleep
53:29
Speaker 3: did you.
53:29
Speaker 1: Get during that race? I got twenty one minutes of sleep.
53:35
Speaker 3: Oh my god, okay, twenty one minutes of sleep. How
53:40
Speaker 3: many toenails did you lose?
53:42
Speaker 1: Ooh, good question. Maybe I lost two or three in
53:46
Speaker 1: that effort.
53:47
Speaker 3: And when you say you lost two or three, do
53:49
Speaker 3: you lose them after or when you're going for that long?
53:51
Speaker 2: Like do they actually fall off during it?
53:54
Speaker 1: The whole process? After?
54:00
Speaker 2: After?
54:00
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I'm sure the aid station stops, like you
54:03
Speaker 3: can't even count them because at this point where the
54:05
Speaker 3: race like that, like you're constantly eating.
54:08
Speaker 1: Constantly eating. I think the aid stations were roughly every
54:13
Speaker 1: twenty miles in that way, and they were, yeah, fantastic.
54:18
Speaker 1: They would have all these like hot food options in
54:20
Speaker 1: the night sections or cold stuff because during the day
54:24
Speaker 1: we were in the nineties. I think so it was
54:27
Speaker 1: getting pretty toasty out there. But then on my second night,
54:31
Speaker 1: I remember we were down in like single digits, so
54:34
Speaker 1: it was a big swing in temperature. But basically during
54:40
Speaker 1: a race like that, any carbs are amazing. So I
54:45
Speaker 1: was doing like tons of pancakes, quesadillas, hamburgers, mashed potatoes,
54:53
Speaker 1: really any form of potatoes.
54:57
Speaker 2: Always down for potatoes.
54:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a uh yeah, just trying to like, I mean,
55:03
Speaker 1: you need fuel to keep going, so trying to keep
55:06
Speaker 1: the tank as full as possible.
55:08
Speaker 3: So then when someone hears that you finished in Moab
55:12
Speaker 3: ten hours ahead of the next competitor and the next
55:17
Speaker 3: competitor was a man, we just need to like run
55:19
Speaker 3: that home like about like twenty two times because I
55:22
Speaker 3: just feel like so I want to scream that from
55:24
Speaker 3: the rooftop.
55:25
Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here.
55:26
Speaker 3: The real question is just how what is it about
55:30
Speaker 3: you that sets you apart from the other people that
55:33
Speaker 3: are tackling the sport.
55:36
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I do know that for me,
55:39
Speaker 1: the mental game has become very very important. So I
55:44
Speaker 1: rely a lot on my brain to help me keep
55:47
Speaker 1: moving forward as best I can. And when I'm racing,
55:52
Speaker 1: I don't care what place I'm in. I want to
55:54
Speaker 1: make sure I leave everything out there, so when I
55:58
Speaker 1: cross the finish line, I don't want to I wonder
56:01
Speaker 1: what could have been if I had done those twenty
56:03
Speaker 1: miles better or done that one section more efficiently. So
56:08
Speaker 1: I'm trying to just like lay it all out there
56:11
Speaker 1: every time I am towing the line.
56:14
Speaker 2: Have you ever had an injury that completely just rocked
56:17
Speaker 2: your world.
56:19
Speaker 1: I've only had one injury in my ten years of
56:23
Speaker 1: ultra running knock on Wood, but it took me out
56:26
Speaker 1: of a race. So it was a hip injury that
56:29
Speaker 1: basically like that whole leg shut down at about mile
56:34
Speaker 1: sixty ish maybe during one hundred mile race, and it
56:40
Speaker 1: was like the type of flags going up for me
56:43
Speaker 1: where it was like, Oh, this isn't something you stay
56:46
Speaker 1: mentally strong through and push through, Like this is your
56:48
Speaker 1: body telling you something's wrong and you need to just
56:52
Speaker 1: stop the race.
56:53
Speaker 3: You mentioned also earlier the different things in your toolbox
56:57
Speaker 3: that you have to consistently be working on. One of
57:00
Speaker 3: those things, as we've kind of hinted at time and
57:02
Speaker 3: time again, here is nutrition, maybe not during the race,
57:07
Speaker 3: but talk about the things that you're mindful of on
57:11
Speaker 3: the regular with this type of training routine that you have.
57:16
Speaker 1: I like my training and self coaching, try to really
57:20
Speaker 1: tune in to what my body is asking for. So
57:24
Speaker 1: I think like cravings and our bodies tell us a
57:28
Speaker 1: lot of things if we listen, and so I will
57:31
Speaker 1: try to listen to those always to help me feed myself. Well,
57:35
Speaker 1: I don't cut out any food groups. I make sure
57:38
Speaker 1: to eat just a lot and then to include any
57:43
Speaker 1: of the cravings that I'm having. So sometimes it's like
57:47
Speaker 1: ground beef on everything, I'm like, oh my gosh, I
57:50
Speaker 1: just need some red meat. Sometimes it's you know a
57:56
Speaker 1: lot of greens or things like that. But taking care
58:00
Speaker 1: of myself outside of the running piece is important, but
58:05
Speaker 1: also not losing the joy like eating and not thinking
58:09
Speaker 1: about food. So eating things I love is part of
58:13
Speaker 1: joy for me. And so I want to, you know,
58:15
Speaker 1: start the day with pancakes because I love pancakes. And
58:20
Speaker 1: I want to end the day with a beer because
58:22
Speaker 1: I love beer. You know, anything in between there is
58:26
Speaker 1: like fair game.
58:27
Speaker 3: I think favorite pancake, Like I'm a banana chocolate chit
58:31
Speaker 3: pancake kind of person.
58:33
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Well, so one of my partners is
58:35
Speaker 1: Kodiak pancakes. Have you had those?
58:38
Speaker 2: I have their protein pancakes.
58:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they make these cups that are perfect because
58:45
Speaker 1: I hate to use dishes in the kitchen, Like if
58:49
Speaker 1: I can just eat something out of a box or
58:51
Speaker 1: just eat it out of a container, I much prefer that.
58:55
Speaker 1: And these cups, these power cups are just like pancakes
58:59
Speaker 1: that you put water in and throw in the microwave
59:02
Speaker 1: and then you're ready to eat pancakes in like two minutes.
59:05
Speaker 2: There's nothing to like about that.
59:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they have some really good flavors, like cinnamon
59:14
Speaker 1: roll is one of my favorites, blueberry maple is another.
59:18
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to go to the grocery store and
59:20
Speaker 3: get myself some pancake cups, all right. So to bring
59:24
Speaker 3: this full circle now, October twentieth, two hundred and eighty
59:28
Speaker 3: three point three three miles at the Bigs Backyard Ultra
59:33
Speaker 3: and you think, after this, you wonder to yourself, could
59:36
Speaker 3: I have gone farther?
59:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely talk to me about those days.
59:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it was like any run that anyone experiences.
59:45
Speaker 1: So there were good moments, there were terrible moments. There
59:49
Speaker 1: were moments where doubt started to grow and then there
59:53
Speaker 1: were the moments where it was like just staying positive
59:56
Speaker 1: and using mental strength to keep moving. So it rollercoastered
1:00:01
Speaker 1: a ton and it's like that format where you can
1:00:06
Speaker 1: just surprise yourself. So for me, it was like one
1:00:10
Speaker 1: lap at a time, and even on those laps, it
1:00:13
Speaker 1: was like I knew a tree that I could get
1:00:15
Speaker 1: to in a certain amount of time, So when I
1:00:18
Speaker 1: started the lap, I was like, just get to the tree,
1:00:20
Speaker 1: you know, that's easy. Get to the tree, and then
1:00:23
Speaker 1: whatever the next section was. So it was very piecemealed.
1:00:27
Speaker 1: I never let myself think about how far I had
1:00:31
Speaker 1: gone or how much farther I was trying to go.
1:00:34
Speaker 3: And it's interesting, right, because the rules of this competition
1:00:38
Speaker 3: were that you could only keep going as long as
1:00:41
Speaker 3: one other person was still competing for you that competition.
1:00:46
Speaker 2: Harvey Lewis is this other athlete's name.
1:00:49
Speaker 3: And it's interesting, right because in this moment, it's like
1:00:53
Speaker 3: you want to come out on top, but you also
1:00:57
Speaker 3: need this person to keep going.
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why it's a really special format. Because
1:01:04
Speaker 1: of that where we were each other's cheerleaders. Neither one
1:01:08
Speaker 1: of us wanted the other to drop because we wanted
1:01:11
Speaker 1: as a unit to see what was possible. And I
1:01:15
Speaker 1: think that makes it just really cool. You know, like
1:01:19
Speaker 1: we weren't competing against each other. We were competing with
1:01:23
Speaker 1: each other against the course and against time to see
1:01:27
Speaker 1: if we could outlast those things.
1:01:30
Speaker 2: How did that feel for you when that was over?
1:01:34
Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy. It just like suddenly is over.
1:01:37
Speaker 1: Like you think it's gonna be going forever. You're thinking
1:01:40
Speaker 1: about your flight that leaves in a few days and
1:01:43
Speaker 1: if you're gonna miss it or not, you know, and
1:01:45
Speaker 1: then suddenly it's just done.
1:01:47
Speaker 2: But it was cool.
1:01:48
Speaker 1: It made me wonder, you know, what else is possible.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: I just talked.
1:01:54
Speaker 3: We talked at the top of this episode, just drawing
1:01:56
Speaker 3: New York Marathon. So often we hear about the post
1:01:59
Speaker 3: and mayoron Blues talk to us about if you experience
1:02:04
Speaker 3: that come down after you go through and rock so
1:02:08
Speaker 3: many of these crazy accomplishments.
1:02:10
Speaker 1: I usually, thankfully don't experience much of a post race blues.
1:02:17
Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly why. I know that I
1:02:21
Speaker 1: usually have a whole calendar of events, and so whatever
1:02:25
Speaker 1: race just happened was just one of them. And so
1:02:29
Speaker 1: it's never like carrying the weight of the world. For me,
1:02:32
Speaker 1: it's like, well, that was just one race that we
1:02:34
Speaker 1: got to try. It went well or it didn't go well, whatever,
1:02:37
Speaker 1: But now eyes are forward for the next thing. And
1:02:42
Speaker 1: I know, like my friends and my husband and my family,
1:02:45
Speaker 1: they don't give a whot about results or any of it.
1:02:49
Speaker 1: So I think that helps, you know, like after a
1:02:52
Speaker 1: race or in the weeks after a race, and I
1:02:55
Speaker 1: can get together with them and we're not talking about racing.
1:02:59
Speaker 1: We're talking about other things.
1:03:02
Speaker 2: Other things.
1:03:03
Speaker 3: Speaking of other things, three hundred and twenty four thousand
1:03:07
Speaker 3: people following you on social media, they go there, they
1:03:10
Speaker 3: look at your page. They see this ultrarunner in your
1:03:13
Speaker 3: words with a love for sunshine, long en seams, and candy.
1:03:17
Speaker 2: I love a long en seam for you.
1:03:19
Speaker 3: When you look in the mirror, Courtney, what is it
1:03:23
Speaker 3: that you see looking back at you?
1:03:26
Speaker 1: I hope a person that helps make other people's day better.
1:03:31
Speaker 2: I love that.
1:03:32
Speaker 3: And it's interesting to me again like kind of just
1:03:35
Speaker 3: like for a second, thinking about the sheer number of
1:03:38
Speaker 3: people that are trying to keep up with you. Because
1:03:40
Speaker 3: your sport is so one where you seek to be
1:03:45
Speaker 3: off the grid to tap into your own potential. But
1:03:48
Speaker 3: you just said here that you hope to inspire others
1:03:52
Speaker 3: using your platform. Do you ever feel like a little
1:03:56
Speaker 3: maybe caught up in that, or kind of like confused
1:03:58
Speaker 3: in that, or obligated that.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: Even in my head, I'm like in this chapter right
1:04:03
Speaker 1: now that you know eventually this chapter will end and
1:04:06
Speaker 1: I'll move on to whatever chapter is coming next, and
1:04:09
Speaker 1: so to enjoy this chapter as much as possible while
1:04:14
Speaker 1: it's here, so that you know, I know, later in
1:04:18
Speaker 1: life and I look back on this, I lived it
1:04:20
Speaker 1: as fully as possible. So I get to interact with
1:04:24
Speaker 1: all of these people and hear bits of their stories.
1:04:26
Speaker 1: I get to run a lot of miles by myself
1:04:30
Speaker 1: and with friends, and like, I don't know all the
1:04:33
Speaker 1: pieces in it. I'm trying to just soak up as
1:04:36
Speaker 1: much as I.
1:04:36
Speaker 2: Can right now.
1:04:39
Speaker 3: You have an opportunity to offer the Courtney who had
1:04:44
Speaker 3: to pull out of that first hundred mile race looking
1:04:48
Speaker 3: back on it, a piece of advice during that hurdle moment.
1:04:53
Speaker 2: What do you tell her Ooh.
1:04:58
Speaker 1: I mean really, I'd be like, chill out a little bit, maybe, Yeah,
1:05:04
Speaker 1: something like slow as smooth, smooth as fast, so that
1:05:08
Speaker 1: just all the systems can slow down and I could
1:05:11
Speaker 1: actually assess what was going on and not get sucked
1:05:15
Speaker 1: in by this negative vortex.
1:05:17
Speaker 3: What do you say to the people that think what
1:05:20
Speaker 3: you do is crazy.
1:05:23
Speaker 1: To give it a try?
1:05:25
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I love that. So good, so good.
1:05:32
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for sitting down with me today. I
1:05:34
Speaker 3: just love like your energy and your optimism and everything
1:05:38
Speaker 3: that you're putting out into the world. I think that
1:05:41
Speaker 3: we can all learn a lot from someone who has
1:05:44
Speaker 3: so much hope about seeking out like the biggest of
1:05:47
Speaker 3: the biggest, crazy, fun, audacious goals.
1:05:50
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thanks for chatting. Let's in touch about
1:05:53
Speaker 1: what fifty k you might try.
1:05:55
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I know that you don't like to look
1:05:57
Speaker 3: for help, but I'm totally fine with asking for how hope,
1:06:00
Speaker 3: So when I figure out what I'm gonna do, I'm
1:06:03
Speaker 3: gonna be like, yo, Court, I need a training plan,
1:06:07
Speaker 3: and I need you to come over and bring me
1:06:10
Speaker 3: pancakes and mugs and.
1:06:13
Speaker 2: I'll be there and you, oh my go please. You
1:06:17
Speaker 2: don't even imagine. I am brand new to this, but
1:06:20
Speaker 2: I kind of brought this beast of a crew. If
1:06:24
Speaker 2: you don't mind.
1:06:26
Speaker 3: How do how do the hurdlers follow along with you?
1:06:28
Speaker 3: How do they keep up with you. Give me all
1:06:30
Speaker 3: your details.
1:06:31
Speaker 1: Best place is probably Instagram at Courtney.
1:06:34
Speaker 3: Dualter Beautiful, I'm Over, at Emily Body, and at Hurdle
1:06:38
Speaker 3: Podcast Another Hurdle conquered.
1:06:40
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.