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108. Barbara Palmer - The Royal Whore · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hello delicious friends,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and welcome to Who I Want Now, the history podcast
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: That's Not Your History Class with me your host, Katie Charlewood,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: history harlot and reader of books. I was supposed to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: be talking about something else this week, but there's a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: lot of like referencing, cross referencing, fact checking. Like there's
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: a lot going on, and and some stuff has been
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: happening in the background. There's there's things coming that I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: can't talk about yet, but I think you're gonna be excited.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: So to start off with, I got a few things
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to talk about before we get into today's show. I
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: want to thank everybody who's been sending me five star reviews.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: You're so amazing. I love you. And I'm hoping, dear God,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that the sound quality is actually better in
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this episode. I had changed it before. I'll tell you
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: what happened, right. I had somebody email me consistently complaining
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: about background noise. And I've got an auditory process and disorder,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: so I was thinking, maybe I'm just not hearing it right.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I thought maybe it was me. Maybe I should not
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: be editing my own stuff. So I was like, all right, okay,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: well I'll work to remove all this background noise. And
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: apparently all I did was make everything quieter, like it
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: sounds fab on my computer, like absolutely fab, but everywhere
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: else not really, so I'm told apparently once the ads
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: are added on from you know, the big boss says,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it's just like not working out for people. So I'm
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: sort of revering back to my og settings and hoping
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: that this is going to work for you. And if
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you're annoyed by the background noise, listen, I'm doing my best,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: all right, figure it out. And that's that. Yeah, stuff's
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: happening behind the scenes. I opened a merch store on
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: tea public link down below. So anything from the yeat
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  Speaker 1: the Rich like section, all of that, all the proceeds,
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  Speaker 1: everything I get from that is going to be sent
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  Speaker 1: to Operation Olive Branch, who I've partnered with to get
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Garrett and her family out of Rava. So on the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Palestinian side, the border was closed, but on the Egypt
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: side it's open. So to get the rap crossing open
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, I'm kind of trying to figure
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: out and see what if I need to like send
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: an angry word letter of complaint to politicians or something.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Someone out there knows more than me about this, and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: so I'm trying to keep in the loop and trying
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to put prere on you know, the elected officials to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you know, do the ethical and right thing, you know,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: follow you know, the whole human rights situation, just to
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  Speaker 1: leave it. But in the meantime, I'm just partnering with
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Operation All the Brands, do my best to raise funds
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  Speaker 1: so that when they can cross, they can cross, you know.
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  Speaker 1: And it made me so angry. But ah, yeah, So
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  Speaker 1: my entire Patreon this month, which is only like two
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  Speaker 1: hundred quid, I know, but my entire Patreon is going
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  Speaker 1: to Operation All the branch, and I'm just trying to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: do my best. I've got their go fund meet in
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  Speaker 1: the link down below. Hopefully we can do something. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make sure I'm everything on my
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: list today. I'm trying to be organized, which is for
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: me really tough or or not at all. I'm either
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: like extremely organized or just chaos. So yeah, I raise
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: money for Operation Alive branch. We have the store that's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: set up, so it's got the other stuff up there too,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: and I don't know. I meant to end up just
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: like putting all of it on, like sending all of it,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: all of this month stuff to it. And I was
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  Speaker 1: just going to say how much as there? I mean,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: if there isn't too much from the Eat the Rich stuff,
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  Speaker 1: then I'll just shove the rest on it. And there's
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  Speaker 1: so many people online actually because I did a little
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Eat the Rich video. I remade it and people are like, oh,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: this should be a beat, Like, seriously, someone make it
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: a beat, make it a dance track. I think I
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: think it work. Oh my super secret project, it's not
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: even super secret. It's just I have news coming and
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you what it is. I just can't tell.
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  Speaker 1: And I've got my Glasgow show. The last one was
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: sold out, this was an This one's in Blue Dog.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: It's accessible. Y'all should come and see me. Come see
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: me because I'm cool and I know things. And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think that's everything this week. M But I note
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  Speaker 1: you're thinking, you're thinking quit your jibber jabber in fact me,
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  Speaker 1: In fact you I will. But first we've got to
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  Speaker 1: get our source on. Our sources are The Great Lady,
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  Speaker 1: A biography of Barbara Villiers Mistress of Charles the Second
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  Speaker 1: by Margaret Gilmore, The Royal Whore Barbara Villiers, Countess of
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  Speaker 1: Castlemaine by Alan Andrews, The Diary of Samuel Peeps by
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  Speaker 1: Samuel Peeps, Mischief Making Mistresses at the Court of Charles
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  Speaker 1: the Second by Claire Bucknell, and of course our old
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: favorites Biography dot com and History dot Com. I'l sit
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  Speaker 1: in comfortably good. Then let's begin. So I originally did
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  Speaker 1: this at the live show in Brighton at the Caroline
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  Speaker 1: of Brunswick only twenty six of April twenty twenty four. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I was originally holding this out for Patreon, but I
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  Speaker 1: didn't want to leave you without anything this week, and
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  Speaker 1: with everything going on, we're a little bit behind. So
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  Speaker 1: let's talk about Barbara Palmer, who I have simply put
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  Speaker 1: down as official hot mess. I mean I feel that
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  Speaker 1: on a personal level. Now. You know, when you hear
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  Speaker 1: about someone in history and you're thinking that sounds, you know,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: like exaggeration, that sounds a little bit more up. You know,
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  Speaker 1: no one's really that bad. I assure you, delicious friends.
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  Speaker 1: She is so Barbara Palmer. She is born Barbara Willias
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: on the twenty seventh of November sixteen forty in Westminster.
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  Speaker 1: She is born to the Viscount Grandison and Mary Baying
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  Speaker 1: now Barbara here. She's from good Stock. Her dad was
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  Speaker 1: the half nephew of George Williams, who you may remember
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: as the first Duke of Buckingham and King James the
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  Speaker 1: first to love a boy. Her mother, Mary was a
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  Speaker 1: co heiress. She was from the mercantile class. So basically
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: their money was in trading, their money was in goods.
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  Speaker 1: They were merchants. So like, she's off this side. So
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  Speaker 1: she's got ahead enough for like just commerce. Really. Now,
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  Speaker 1: when she's fifteen years old, she marries George Williams. She's fifteen,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: she gets married, and pretty sharpish after this, Barbara is born. Now,
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  Speaker 1: when Barbara is three years old, the Viscount Grandison dies,
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  Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. It's during the First English Civil War. Now,
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  Speaker 1: see what happens is he gets injured on the battlefield
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: and it's not the battlefield itself that kills him. He
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: actually dies several days later from gangreen because you know,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: not the most sterile of places the battlefield. And so
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  Speaker 1: he dies, leaving the family in absolutely massive of debt
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  Speaker 1: because he funded a regiment himself, not funded by the crown,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: not funded by you know, royalists, and no, no, no,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: no, no himself, so that all his money is going on
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  Speaker 1: horses and the bear essentials, buckets and buckets and bullets,
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  Speaker 1: because his family are big royalists. But they are now
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  Speaker 1: at this point broke as shit. So Mary, Barbara's mother,
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  Speaker 1: who is now at this point an eighteen year old widow,
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  Speaker 1: she marries pretty sharpish to her late husband's cousin, Charles Williams.
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  Speaker 1: Keeping it in the family. Now you know what I've said,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I've said it before and I'll say it again. Your
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: family tree should not be a wreath. But anyway, they're
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: getting by and they managed to live in London, so
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: they're not exactly begging for scraps. So it's basically like
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: relative poverty, Like it's they're poor for being in London,
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  Speaker 1: but like if they were somewhere else that wasn't as affluent,
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  Speaker 1: they'd probably be pretty fancy. Now in sixteen forty nine,
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  Speaker 1: things take a turn for the worst. That Barbara is
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  Speaker 1: now nine years old at this point or ish see
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  Speaker 1: King Charles, the first King of England. He's beheaded Cromwell
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  Speaker 1: and his cronies are ruling. They don't like anything really
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  Speaker 1: that invigorates the soul. So no like music or dancing
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  Speaker 1: or art or you know, decent fiction books. None of
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  Speaker 1: that stuff. Now, I would say The Miserable as sin,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: but sin and wasn't allowed. Do you think I was
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  Speaker 1: going to go through this and not get a trucks
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  Speaker 1: the second song from Horrible Histories in this friends, Delicious
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  Speaker 1: Delicious Friends. Of course, of course I am so. The
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  Speaker 1: family the Villiers two point zero. They are staunch royalists,
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  Speaker 1: and they transferred their support from the dead king to
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  Speaker 1: his son Trials the second. Now, many many royals they
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  Speaker 1: fled for the Netherlands, but the Villiers family they stayed,
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  Speaker 1: and they stayed in London. And now now they do
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  Speaker 1: this thing, which I'll be honest with you now, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not saying it's creepy. Yeah, I'm just saying that I
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't personally have a seat put shrine to the Prince
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  Speaker 1: of Wales in my basement, like down the cellar when
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: nobody goes, nobody needs that. I almost went into the
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: beginning of like Funny Bones, which is a stellar TV
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  Speaker 1: show and should be brought back. I'm just saying, so
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  Speaker 1: every year, like a cult, they crowded down in the
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  Speaker 1: darkened cellar on Charles's birthday and would drink to his health.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like you could at least bring
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  Speaker 1: a candle down there, Like why are you down in
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  Speaker 1: the dark. It's just a bit excessive. So they're living
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  Speaker 1: in this time where the Puritans are ruling and they exist,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: but they didn't. I mean, they tried to ban fun,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: but they couldn't stop it. Like, you know, how you
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: can ban abortion. If you can't, all you're doing is
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: banning safe abortion. You know you're because it's it's still
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: gonna happen. It's just gonna be worse. So like they're
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: trying to stop fun happening, and all they're doing is
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  Speaker 1: making fun more salacious, and it's it's becoming just a
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  Speaker 1: bit more tantalizing, you know, and the fun they're having
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  Speaker 1: is going to be maybe a bit more raucous because
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  Speaker 1: of it. So people would have parties, they would have music,
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  Speaker 1: they would have their own little society going about doing
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  Speaker 1: what they do and the next generation of Royalists. So
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  Speaker 1: Barbara and her ilk they ran in their own circles too.
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  Speaker 1: So like her parents they would meet other royalists like
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  Speaker 1: on the down low and have like we secret parties
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  Speaker 1: and and like, oh, I'm going over to like Lord
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  Speaker 1: Featherington's house. Did I name someone from bridget and I did?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Shut up, It's fine, I'm going to see I don't
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: know Lucy. Then you're not at Lucy's house because you're
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: out drinking in a field. Except it's not a field,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it's somebody's secret damp seller. So they're having these wee
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: parties and whatnot. But then so are the younger crowd
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: now teenage Barbara. I mean she should be a decent match. She's,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: like I said, of good stock, like she's kind of sidish,
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  Speaker 1: related to the King's one of the King's favorites from
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: way back. And she is absolutely gorgeous. She's got auburn hair,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: dark heavy set eyes, full lips, a pale complexion. She's voluptuous,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: not volumptuous, because I learned those are two for things,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and I consistently mix them up, like conflation sensation. Like
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: absolutely so, even though Barbara is of the correct pedigree
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and she's you know, hot as fuck, she's also broke
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  Speaker 1: as shit. So the eligible men were not going down
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  Speaker 1: on one knee, and so teenage Barbara fifteen to sixteen
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  Speaker 1: year old she falls for a rick A cad a
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  Speaker 1: an arsehole, really, the Earl of Chesterfield, a twenty year
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  Speaker 1: old widower, because kiuse of course he is, because of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: course he's a twenty year old widower. It's it's this
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: period of time. It's the seventeen hundreds. It's the sixteen hundreds.
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  Speaker 1: For historian Katie, you're not great with dates. I'm aware
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and mix him up to but I know what I mean,
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  Speaker 1: which is not great for everybody else. So yeah, it's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the seventeen Nope, fuck, it's the sixteen hundred, dammit. And
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  Speaker 1: he is, ah, he is, He's sticking his spoon and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: every honeypot right. But she is in love with him
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  Speaker 1: in the way that a sixteen year old is in
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  Speaker 1: love with anybody, Like she's writing him letters, but how
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: she adores him, and how he's amazing, he's wonderful and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: our heart will bars and your blah blah b b.
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  Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, you're cult too, Like he makes
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  Speaker 1: it really clear that she is like one of many,
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  Speaker 1: that she's not special by any stretch of the imagination,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: but she's so willing to settle because she's you know,
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  Speaker 1: sixteen and so full of hormones. And it's not not
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I don't wish this for Barbara. I think she deserves
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: better for now at this point, before she becomes a dick.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: But yeah, in sixteen fifty nine, the nineteen year old
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Barbara Mary's Roger Palmer, and there they're chalk and cheese.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: He's Catholic, like super well proper Catholic, and she's Anglican.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: So they're not they're not the same religion. And this
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: is a country that has fought many wars, many sectarian wars,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: based on this very situation, Like this is not a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: crossover that should happen within this time period, especially like
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: even up until recently it was weird used to have
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to get a special dispensation from the pope. It was
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a whole situation. But yeah, so she marries him, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: his dad is so against the marriage, like Palmer Senior,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: like he states that she would make him the most
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: miserable man in the world, which is definitely words of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: encouragement from your father about your fiance. That's that's nice. Yeah,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: So they are engaged, you know, and it's fairly decent
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: because you know, she really should be patrolled at this
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: point because of her social standing. But yeah, so meanwhile
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: she's married him, but she's still continuing her affair with
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the Earl of Chesterfield. And they're married like a year
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and she ends up traveling to the court in the Netherlands.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: So her and her family they all go go to
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the court in the Netherlands where Charles is camping out.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Could you see Cromwell he died the year before. He
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: died the year before they got married, So sixteen fifty
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  Speaker 1: eight he dies, and since then it's an absolute shit show.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So like one person gets in charge and then another
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: person gets in charge, and it's just shit one after another,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like like his son takes it, but then it doesn't
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: really work out and it's just it's a lot of bollocks, really,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And then the restoration happens, where it's like they restore
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the monarchy. Basically Parliament and King Charles a second agree
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to work together. They're like, hey, you can be king
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: as long as you don't have like ultimate control and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: power like this is this is a collaborative effort. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: he goes, do I still get to have parties and
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: wear really cool clothes and they're like, yeah, sure, no worries, buddy,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and he goes okay. So they agreed to work together
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty and everything's great and he travels back
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to England. So he Charles the Second King. Charles the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Second is a randy fellow. I don't know if you
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: know this. So he's just an absolute horn dog, and
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Barbara Palmer is an absolute smoke show with an insatiable appetite.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: She was also tempestuous, volatile, egregious. She was spoken of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: by John Evelyn, who called her the Curse of the
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Nation because she ruled the palace with her moods. So basically,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: if Barbara was having a bad day, every fucking person
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in her vicinity was having a bad day. So in
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: sixteen sixty one, Charles makes Robert Palmer the Earl of Castlemaine,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: which sounds nice, it sounds like, you know, he's doing
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a favor, but it's more like backhanded because the way
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: that he makes it happen is he states that the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: title could only be passed down to any children with Barbara,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: so the title wouldn't necessarily go down Robert's life if
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: he were to marry someone else, like the title dies
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: with him, well dies and then has passed down to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Barbara's children, which is almost as if Charles is laying
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the groundwork there for something specific. I wonder what it
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: could be. I wonder. So Barbara and Robert, the Palmers,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: they don't really see each other too much. After this,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Barbara is like pregnant, and in sixteen sixty one she
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: gives birth to her daughter and Palmer and Robert claims her,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: which is fine, because that's a thing you have to do,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: like a man would have to do when a women
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: gave birth, is the father would have to claim the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: child so that the child was not legitimate or as
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: some might say, born on the wrong side of the blanket. Hm.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Then she gets pregnant again and he's like, uh, sure,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: maybe I guess, And Charles Palmer he's born. Now, when
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Charles Palmer is born, her firstborn son, she whisks him
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: away to be christened in the Church of England. Now
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: she gets him christened the Church of England because she's Anglican,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: like that's our religion. So instead of making sure he's
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: baptized in a Catholic ceremony, she just takes him away
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and she does it. Well, here's the thing. Does she
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: do it to secure her son's safety in this sort
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of tumultuous existence and you know, the restoration because she
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: grew up through puritanism, you know what I mean. And
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, is that it or was she just trying
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to like piss off Robert. Maybe she took a spite,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe she just felt like doing it. I mean, hymn's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to say. But like most of the time when they
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: were in each other's company, Robert Palmer and Barbara, they
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: were just straight up ignoring each other. They were just
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: not paying attention and it was like really awkward for
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: everyone else because they would just pretend like the other
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: one wasn't there, which is just Oh, were they sending
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a maid to run between the two of them like
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: it was a conversation or were they just playing ignoring them?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Like I have so many questions, Like we only get
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: like snippets of this, but ah, I wish I knew
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: more and things with Barbara, like I said before, you're like, oh,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: it's an exaggeration, Maybe it's propaganda. Nobody could be like this.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: She's not that bad. She is, I assure you she is.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But we'll get back to that after this lah commercial
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: break and we're back. So King Charles he has to
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: get married, as one does, because he's now the king.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: He has to have legitimate heirs, and so he does.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: He has a political alliance and he marries Catherine to Braganza.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Now Catherine of Braganza. People act like she's this weepy,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: wealthy little flower. But she she's tougher than you think.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: But when she shows up in England, you know, to
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: be it's queen and to produce, you know, ales for
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the care. She arrives in England and all the nobles
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do is have these bonfires outside,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: so like every single house, they're supposed to have these
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: sort of bonfires to welcome the new queen. And Samuel
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Peeps noticed that every noble dead except one Barbara Palmer.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And and it gets it gets worse, right, So when
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the King and Queen are on their honeymoon, Barbara settles
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: down in Hampton Court Palace, which is the residence of
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: the royal couple. Right, she goes to Hampton Court to
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: give birth to the King's ilegitimate son. Now I've had
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a mark in your territory. But like Barbara, Barbara, it's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: their fucking honeymoon, like seriously, like what opinions, Barbara, I've
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: got opinions. So and the King he is so like
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say enamored, he's more like lustified,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: like he's so into Barbera that he wants to make
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it official now like the middle Nope, I've pronounced that wrong.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: The official mistress, right, so in the French court there's
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: an official mistress, but like it wasn't an actual position.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Well I mean you know what I mean, Like it
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't an actual position in sort of the English court,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like it wasn't a thing, just because you know, the repressedness.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So he's trying to make this official title for Barbara,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: which doesn't exist, like not in this locale, and he's
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: trying to make it happen. So what he does is,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: instead of that, he decides Barbara was to be a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: lady of the bedchamber to Catherine, to Braganza, the Queen
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: and Catherine she is pissed. She is livid, friends livid
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: because she knows who Barbara is and Barbara is an
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: arsehol like she's rude to her, she's disrespectful. She does
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: whatever the fuck she wants. And Catherine is so mad
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: about this that she just threatens to return to Portugal.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: She's like, nope, screw this, fuck this, fuck that, fuck you,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: fuck off, I'm off. Like she is so enraged and
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: so insulted at this, and and she like she just
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: tells Charles a second that she's gonna get the heck
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: at a dodge. Now here's the thing. Charles, like his father,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: did not like to be denied, so he sends away
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: most of her Portuguese retenue, like her advisors, her ladies
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in waiting, like anything close to her. He just gets
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: rid of them. And he's just an He's a bit
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of a dick himself, he really is, but he makes
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: us happen because he doesn't want to be denied by anyone,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: because he's the king, you know. And not that it
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: really mattered anyway, because Barbara, even though she was a
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: lady of the bedchamber, right, she didn't really do the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: job like she got in a levens. She got extra money,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: but she didn't actually do what she was supposed to do,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: which I think Katherine is probably quite happy about because
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: her and Barbara they would feud. They they feuded a lot,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: like you should make that, Ryan Murphy, make that your
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: next feud. Barbara Palmer and Catherine de Baganza, let's see it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, luckily, luckily she just took the payment, took
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the money and run like she didn't actually do you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: her duty. And it's not great for Barbara. Like the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: same year as well, a rival appears and Barbara has
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to work to stay in the king's favor because who
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: enters court but Francis Stuart, who's fifteen years old, by
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the way, and she is too, quote peeps, the prettiest
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: girl in all the world, Samuel, Samuel, this is a
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old they're talking about. Okay, just bear that
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: in mind and creep like honestly, I mean any pepes
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: is so weird though, because he was talking about when
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: he saw Barbara Willialls or Barbara Palmer in church. He
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: sees her in church one day and he sees her.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: S where the fuck? This is one of his massive diaries, right,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: He sees her and he is so overcome by her
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: just sexiness that he just comes in his pants and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: he has to like adjust his breaches. Like in church,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like that. I mean, I'm not here to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: yuck anybody's young, but I feel like that's a specific
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: kink hear for peeps, and I don't want to kinkhame anyone.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: But also what and then, I mean, did he write
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a diary hoping no one would read it? Or did
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: he write a diary hoping people would read it? Because
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: that's another thing anyway, off track. So Barbara is a
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: devious bitch. She sets up this fake wedding for everyone
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: to admire their beauty together, or so her and this
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old girl. She's like, I'll be the grim,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: you'll be the bride, and everyone will admire us. It'll
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: be like a little play be fantastic. Right. So once
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the ceremony is over and they play their parts, and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: there's the you know, the going to the bedchamber to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: be wed right or the wedding bed.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: The devious, sneaky, conniving Barbara switches places with the king
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: himself because kings like he is like infatuated with Francis.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: But Francis does not want to be the King's mistress.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: She doesn't want it. She wants a good married match.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: She doesn't want this, and and she just refuses to
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: like do the bedding. She refuses to shag him. She's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: like mmmmm, no, thank you. Ah. So in sixteen sixty three,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: the Queen gets really fucking ill, like Charles is again
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: besoughted with Francis, and he's going around telling everybody whole
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: listen that if Queen Catherine dies, he's gonna marry Francis Stewart,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: which spells trouble for Barbara. So if Catherine dies, like
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: it's a shit show for everyone, Like Barbara's fucked. She
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: can't compete with Francis. The beautiful, lovely Francis not an option.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Luckily for everyone, Catherine survives, yay, And at this point
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Barbara just in pure retaliation, like good for her, the
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Queen's alive because she's fucked. Otherwise she converts to Catholicism.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: She's had her kids baptized or christened Church of England
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and now she's just fucking converted to Catholicism or religion.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: The King does not follow, and so this becomes like
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: ah issue in the court are like she can't be
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: a lady in waiting, she can't do this. She's Catholic
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: and and Charles is like, listen, I'm interested in ladies bodies,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: not the souls, and the court is like what no,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: But also oh yeah, so the same year the queen
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: almost dies, Henry Fitzroy is born. So you now that's
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: really interesting to me. Is like during this period, the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: number one cause of death for women childbirth, number two husbands.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, she's she's popping out puppies. She's giving birth
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: with very little issue, like she's supposed to God, what's
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the words when you're supposed to like cocoon and hide
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: for us, Like so many weeks months after having kids,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Barbara's like no, no, no, no, up and at them,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: up and at them. So she has her kids, does
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: like the basic amount of resting, like the least amount
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you could possibly do, and then up she goes just
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: not missing court and not missing the fund, the miss
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: none of that right, and she having all these kids,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: but she's still seen as very desirable and she's doing
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: it somehow without dying, which is great. Like it's interesting
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: when you think of I'm not gonna say how easy
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: she had it, because like childbirth is excruciating and just
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: unpleasant for everyone involved. But she's doing all right. But
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: she ends up having like kids after kids after kids
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: are with King Charles, so they have the surname Fitzroy,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: which means like child of the king. So sixteen sixty four,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Charlotte is born sixteen sixty five George, like one a year.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: She's doing really well. It's after this where she just
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: causes more of a fucking scene because she starts posing
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: for these paintings. So she's like being like the Madonna
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: and child like because you know, big religious paintings, and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: she's in all these artworks and it becomes like the
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: talk of the court because she's just outposing for all
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: these portraits. And Catherine Braganza, she's just last Nell. Really,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: she's just getting irritated consistently, and she ends up conspiring
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: with the Earl of Clarendon, who just so happens to
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: be Barbara's cousin. Now Barbara is like fuck this for
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: game of Soldiers, and she bandies up with a bunch
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: of the other mistresses right of King Charles's second like
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: they all get together to get him dismissed from court
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty seven. But like it's fine that King
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Charles has like mistresses because Barbara is also having her
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: own fun. So she's got her own personal wing at
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Hampton Court, like she's got to feel fucking wing which
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: completely failing to disrepair. Actually, so when Mary and William
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: came in they had to replace like her wing because
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: she just left it in such a disarray because she
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: had all this money, but she just kept fucking shit
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: up and not paying for upkeep. Anyway, she's having all
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: this fun. She's shagging an acrobat, which is a fun experience.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: But also again family tree, wreath, family tree, not a wreath.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: She's shagging her second cousin, John Churchill, Yes, of that fame.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: See this is how Princess Diana and once in Churchill
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: are related. Yep, yep, you heard me, you held me so. Anyway,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: all through this, Barbara, she's loving her best life. She's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: having a great time, and she's helping herself to the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: King's privy pus and she's accepting breabes from dignitaries. Whether
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: she does anything with that again, who's to say, but
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: she does it anyway. And the same year, the same
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: year that she ousts Clarendon, right, she decides she's going
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to get rid of Francis once and for all. So
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Barbara convinces the king to surprise Francis Stuart in her bedchamber,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: but when he gets there and opens the door, she's
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: in bed with. His cousin is also called Charles, and
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: it is it's a scandal, right, and so Francis ends
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: up marrying like other Charles. But here's the thing, by
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the way, at this point in time, if a couple
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: had agreed to get married, if they were engaged, if
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: they were betrothed, right then, as far as Goddess concerned, like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you're allowed to shag because you've made a promise to marry,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: which is as good as marrying, like it's a thing.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: But that that happened in Charles is just like done.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: King Charles is done with Francis cousin. Charles is good
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: with Francis. But back to Barbara. She's shagging Churchill and
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: she gifts him five thousand pounds five grand and the king,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: the King, he's asked without this, He's like, well, look
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: at what she's doing. She's taken money and she's given
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: it to this lover of her. And the King's like, yeah,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: young man must have something to live on. And he's
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: still gifting her things like the duchess title the Duchess
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: of Cleveland and Phoenix Park in Dublin, which is nice.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: She also gets non such palace in sixteen seventy so
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: she is the Baroness non search. I don't know if
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing this correctly, but I like the fact that
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: it's non search, and I will continue. So two years later,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Barbara fits Roy's burn and she looks I'm not quite
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: like Charles. She's actually looking away bit more like John Churchill.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: And so the King is like, I don't think that's
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: my baby. I'm not claiming it. Not claiming it. In
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Barbara trigger warning, murder, child abuse, possible threat skip Ford
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: twenty seconds, she threatens to smash the baby's brains off
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: of a mantle right if he doesn't claim the child
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: as his own. And so he's like, come to daddy.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: So he ends up begging for forgiveness in front of
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the entire court like Barbara, Barbara, Barbara, infantaicide we're using
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: in fantaside now, Barbara. So things are fine ish for
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the next couple of years, but then in sixteen seventy three,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the Test Act banned Catholics from holding office. Now remember
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: when she converted to Catholicism on a whim to cause
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: a scene. Ah, looks like that came back to bit
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: her in the arse. So she loses her position as
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Lady of the Bedchamber, and this gets given to Louise Decree,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: who is really nice. She's one of the other mistresses
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: of King Charles the second, but like she gets on
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: pretty well with Catherine de Braganza because she's not ostentatious,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: she's not overt, she's really fucking polite, which after dealing
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: with Barbara, I can understand would be nice refreshing. Even so,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Barbara is expecting to, you know, have King Charles like
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: sort of out for her. She thinks, so gonna be resolved,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but he dismisses her and tells her to live quietly
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and cause no scandal. Your majesty, sah, have you met her?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: So in another three years, Barbara takes her youngest kids
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: to Paris, so the older kids they sty there because
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I think her and Charles she had most of his
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: children than anybody else. And Katherine beganza she had fertility issues,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: whether it was as a result of her illness or
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: whether it's just like old timey methods again whom's to say.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: So she ends up traveling to Paris with her kids,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: but then she returns in sixteen eighty two because she's
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: got some debts, like a lot of people, like Neil
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Gwynn for example, big gambles but not really lucky. So
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: she ends up having non such palace pulled down, and
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: so the materials to cover her gambling debts. Now why
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: she needed to sell the materials and not the palace,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. She ends up selling
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: like Phoenix Park as well, Like she sells all the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: shit he got her because she's gonna pay off all
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: these all these debts, right, she's got loan sharks coming after.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: But he shut her kneecaps and shit, and she's like, no,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I get the money, I'm good for it. Then we
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: just turned down this fucking palace. Fust like, can we
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: fix it? No, we fucking can't, Bob, No we can't.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: So it's sixteen eighty five and the King and Barbara
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: they reconcile and they spend one last evening together the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: week before he dies. So he's like making the rounds
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: as if he knew his time was coming, and she's
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: you're having a good time. They get one last night,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and things are great for one week. It's after this
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: that she starts an affair with Cardinal Goodman, who's an actor,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: not a cardinal. His name is Cardinal yet no, that's right.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: His name is Cardinal fun Fact and he has a
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: bad reputation. And the next year she gives birth to
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: a son. We know nothing about it. And in seventeen
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: oh five, when I said seventeen eighty three earlier, that
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: is not what I meant. I meant seventeen oh three,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: not seventeen eighty three. That's too far. I've gone too
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: far forward. No no, no, no, no, yeah. So yes,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: So seventeen oh five, Roger Palmer he dies, and now,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: because he's super Catholic, he doesn't divorce her. He just
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: stays married, but far away, far away to be unbothered.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: And so he dies and she's finally allowed to remarry,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: and she does at the age of sixty five. Barbara
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Maury's Major General Robert Fielding, and they marry, and it's
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: fairly sharpish afterwards that she discovers his scandalous secret. He
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: was already married. See Fielding, here was a nefarious fortune.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Hunter after her money now and you're thinking he's already married.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I wonder when it could have been. And the thing is,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: he got married two weeks before he eyed her. See
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: he married someone, he mind, another woman two weeks before
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: that wedding, because he thought she was an heiress she
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: was not. Because she thought he had a fortune he
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: did not. It's like and a robbers of scamming. They
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: just screwed each other, and not in a good way.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: So he is, you know, a dick, and Barbara she's
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: not having it. She's sixty five, she doesn't have time
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: for the shit, and so she cuts off his allowance
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and he responds with direct quote barbarous ill treatment. And
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Barbara again is like, fuck this for a game of soldiers.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not taking that. And so she takes him to court,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: not forbeaten her, of course, because who would listen, but
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: she takes him to court for biggiebe which she can prove.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: And so she ends up going to live probably life
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: in her home, Wopole House in Chiswick Mall. She goes
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: back there, stays there for a while, and in seventeen
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: oh nine, at the age of well sixty nine, Barbara
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: passes away from heart failure after suffering from dropsy, which
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: is a dema of the legs, and so ends the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: life of Barbara Palmer Official hot mess. Now, if you
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: liked my telling of this story, please feel free to
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: wait and review five stars. I would appreciate it because
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I could just deal with the confidence best. That'd be great, actually,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that'd be amazing. You can find me on
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: all the socials links down below, and of course be come.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: My voice is going today, and of course you know
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: dmy email like. I love a chat like. If I'm
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: not really busy, if I'm not overwhelmed, I'm happy to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: have a talk, you know that. Just don't send me
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: memes or reels like. I won't click on a reel
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: if you've send it to me unless I know the
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: exact context of it, because if I don't have context,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I won't read it. Mm hmm. But yeah, I'm trying
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: to now recommendations for reading. I'm going to suggest The
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Convent Garden Ladies by Haley rubin Holt for watching. Listen,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I'm doing it. I don't care, I'm doing it. For watching.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I'm going to recommend Bridgerton season three. Don't care, don't care.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's what it is. That's what it is.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Brigidon season three. It's just pretty and fun and just
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Now everything has to be super serious and
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: for lessening. You know what, I'm going to suggest my
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: TikTok mutual Janet Devlin's new song Emotional Rodeo, And with that,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say good night Adios. Au Revoir of
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Waders are my friends, Bye bye