Latest / Justice For / Kouri Richins Trial Recap: Closing Arguments and Verdict

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Kouri Richins Trial Recap: Closing Arguments and Verdict · Justice For

• JusticeFor: Welcome back to Justice for trial recap edition. We're your hosts. I'm Jackie and I'm Sam. All right. We have officially wrapped up the Kouri Richins trial. That is and we definitely didn't expect to get closing arguments and a verdict all in one day. I know I was absolutely floored that the jury only took two hours, 57 minutes and 25 seconds to deliberate. We, we guess what? Wednesday at the earliest? We were both fucking wrong. at the earliest, probably Wednesday. ⁓ I thought I said Wednesday at the earliest. I'm like, no, it's probably going to be like a week though. Boy, were we fucking wrong. We were. But before we get into all of that, just a little bit of housekeeping. ⁓ our live show is April 16th at Voodoo Brewing in Colorado Springs. We have a limited number of tickets available for reserved seats and they do come with a little gift. You won't want to miss out on that. They're pretty cool. So tickets are $20 for your reserved seat and your gift on our website, justiceforpodcast.com. link is in the description below. There's a vent on Facebook as well, but tickets aren't necessary. It is open to the public. We're not shutting the place down, but if you would like to not worry about grabbing a seat, it. Show starts at 6 PM. Since it's a Thursday, we want to be able to. get you guys home. Yeah. For work the next day, give you time to get off work. And there's really good food. My gosh. I keep thinking about those green chili Gouda fries like since we've been there. I'm so excited for them. Me too. So make sure you're following us everywhere. Justice for podcast, Twitter. ⁓ Not that we do anything on there. I got to quit saying Twitter. It's X. Facebook, Instagram. TikTok, YouTube, Spotify. think we said that. Everywhere. Just follow us everywhere. always have updates. ⁓ and you'll be able to find us. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Are you ready to get into closing arguments and verdict? Yeah. All right. Just a little warning. If you're listening to audio only, I would highly recommend switching over to YouTube. We are going to be playing a lot of clips. They all have audio, but there are a lot of faces and people in the background that we're going to be discussing. And some hand movements. Yes. And honestly, this is the most visual closing arguments I have ever watched. So many slides, so much detail. It was great. It was wild. I was not prepared for some of the little like quips that got put in there. What the fuck? But I will say that both the state and the defense did an incredible job in their closings. I mean, they were both very well done. And shouldn't yell at the jury. It's the best. It's the best thing that defense has done all trial period. All right. So Brad Bloodworth presented the state's closing arguments by starting with a quote from the poisoners handbook, which is a nonfiction book written by Deborah Blum. And here's the quote. A gun may be fired in a flash of anger, a rock carelessly hurled, a shovel swung in sudden fury, but a homicidal poisoning requires a calculating intelligence. End quote. and he like put a picture of this up. Yeah. I was like, okay, what an opening. But I Googled this book and the Poisoners Handbook is a nonfiction book that details the rise of forensic toxicology in the 20th century New York City, focusing on the work of medical examiner Charles Norris and toxicologist Alexander Gettler. Published in 2010, the book chronicles how these two scientists pioneered chemical detective work to solve poisoning cases, transforming murder investigations during a time when poisons offered an easy path to the perfect crime. Wow. Right? Prosecution did their research. As they should. You gotta come out swinging if you're gonna do that shit. But how like slightly poetic that they used a book in a trial about a grief author, which Court TV is using that term a little too loosely here, by the way. Calling this the grief author trial. She didn't actually write it. No, I mean there's a bunch of other things that we could have titled this. Boyfriend and Wife. I don't know. Maybe, you know, just talk about Eric. ⁓ crazy. ⁓ ⁓ the beginning and throughout his closing, he kept describing Kouri as an incredibly ambitious person. He said this so many times that I ended up writing it down within the first like five, seven minutes of his closings. And although she was an incredibly ambitious person, she wasn't the smartest. She was borrowing money by any means necessary and gambling with other people's money. She had motive, which was the money and Josh Grossman, her dream of living in the Midway Mansion with him, with Eric out of the way, she could live happily ever after with Josh and all of Eric's money. And this is the narrative of their closing. Bloodworth told the jury that he was going to walk them through all five of Kouri's charges. He put up a nice detailed slide of all of her charges and what goes into them. I love when prosecutors do this, when they just like use their closing to walk the jury through all the counts and everything that goes into it and just really tied up nice with a bow. They laid it out very nicely to like it's no Karen Reed. I'll tell you that. Like they laid it out very nicely, very detailed oriented, but not confusing, which is wonderful. And just to remind you what the jury deliberated on. Aggravated murder for Eric death attempted aggravated murder for the Valentine's Day poisoning Insurance fraud times two and forgery the last three pertained to the life insurance policies for Eric. Mm-hmm emphasizing on the fact that Kouri did this for monetary gain, which is what makes an aggravated murder He also broke down how all of his slides work at the top. They would reference the charge and like aggravated ⁓ or miniature like whatever descriptor it is of it that it applies to they had a picture of either evidence or a witness and quotes with them on the stand and then they a number of the exhibit exhibit that it was linked to and the jury gets all of this when they go back in the room so like I just really like how it was very organized he broke down the slide for them so they could really reference all of this. Man they were busy the rest of Thursday and Friday setting this shit up. Yeah. Then he played the 911 call that I talked about in week three's recap. And he broke it down. And so he doesn't really like play the actual call. He just plays the lead up and talks about what she's doing in the call and everything else. And we've discussed it a lot and it's out there. ⁓ So we're going to go ahead and play that for you. ⁓ definitely my favorite thing in that video was the black widow comment. Yeah. And how he placed that in Chelsea Barney's words. ⁓ She's just she's not a widow. a black widow. This was in the moment. We're not watching a woman turn into a widow. Yeah, it was ⁓ it's such a good job with her face though like The faces she's making while we talk are great. It's like Excuse me. What Jennifer said that a couple times. She caught the narcissist look of like Yeah, nobody's like What no one's gonna believe what you're saying right now. I don't I don't know how to mute my face properly like ever like ⁓ my wedding. She literally had to like come up to me and be like, fix your face. I'm pretty sure I malded it to you like across the room a couple times. Yeah. I don't know how to mute this. So like it just, I don't know. And neither does Kouri. Yeah. I'm just saying if I'm ever on trial for ever anything, it's going to be the best trial ever just for my face. We're going to have have a camera just for you. Absolutely. So He went into how Kouri was calculated in even the days she chose to try to kill Eric. And what would garner the most sympathy? And I was not ready. And I know I was watching you when you watched this clip and you did not know where he was going with any of that from the beginning. I didn't even think about that, with the dates and everything. And he said it and I'm just like, ⁓ like she probably saw my aha moment. So let's watch. So yeah, her faces are so great. I can. So he talks about how Kouri started planning Eric's murder as early as December when she booked that trip for her and Josh for April. She didn't plan for Eric to be alive when she took that trip. Also, how delusional can you be to think that you killed your husband and then like a month later you could go on a cruise with somebody else without your kids and everyone be like, have fun. Like that's just the narcissist in her believing one, she's going to get away with it. Two she like wait, hold on. She was gonna take the kids. No without the kids like she's like this cruise for them in April and yeah He died like March 4th. So like ⁓ she moved on really fucking fast and everyone's fine with it. Yeah, man Also something I didn't pick up on in trial or they just didn't really clarify But Kouri was the one who recorded that phone call with the medical examiner. That's why we have that recording. ⁓ Yeah, she recorded that What a dumbass. Why? Probably so she could go back and reference it to make sure that she was keeping up on stuff. It's better than pulling out notes. ⁓ is. ⁓ they used that, part of that phone call with her talking about the quitipin. Ha ha, I can say it quitipin. That's what it is? Yeah. I liked your other version more. I did too. ⁓ Quitipin. They used her playing dumb about a medication that was prescribed to her in that phone call as a proof that she knew what she was doing. Got it. And honestly, the prosecution did a great job of going through the charges, like we said, one by one and playing or referencing evidence that proved their case. They made it digestible and easy to understand while also putting you in Kouri's shoes and walking you through how she did this. Which is exactly what the defense had an issue with. They immediately called for a mistrial before starting their closing arguments. But before we get into that, do you have any thoughts or comments on the prosecution so far? ⁓ actually, I don't think we touched on we barely did. But like the dates part of it actually makes so much sense. Like, obviously, like if you hear like, ⁓ I lost my husband, like, ⁓ that's sad. That's awful. I lost my husband on Valentine's Day. Yeah, that makes it so much harder. And that makes so much sense like, ⁓ we were celebrating because we just closed on the biggest deal of our life. And then he died on the same night. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. It's like, also, you would think maybe, ma'am, if you're going to kill your husband, you don't want that kind of attention. But you're also a fucking narcissist. So I mean, Yeah. What do I know? Yeah. Those are my comments. You dumb bitch. Go on. So I'm going to play the defense's call for mistrial and the judge's response because I can't even describe this, sum this up. You just have to listen and watch it. Till the very end of the clip. You do. Please. Because it's... I chortled. I'm pretty sure is the best word. I chortled pretty loud. think the defense clips are better than the prosecution clips for this episode because they are just golden. Yeah. All right. Here it is. So ⁓ I one of my parts of this is ⁓ the state disagrees with you. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ That was so great. And then Kathy just being dumb as fuck about that hypothetical. ⁓ You know, I didn't have you watch Wendy Lewis when we watched this clip before but I hope you guys watched Wendy her trying to like Stifle her laughter ⁓ and like moves her hair kind of in her face to hide Her look of like are you fucking stupid right now ⁓ that she has while Cathy doing this? To be fair. I mean, I haven't what I've been ⁓ really watching the trial. I've clips of it obviously from ⁓ Jackie's detective work over here. And of course I went and watched the verdict. I watched that shit live ⁓ and cried. I cried like ⁓ this lady has been in the whole thing. And I know when I heard him say that, I was like, wait, did she laugh? I like, no, you would have me about that. ⁓ But then she's like, way. Like, yeah, ma'am, you've been part of this whole thing. You would have known about that. He was saying a hypothetical. Your reaction of like, did that actually happen? There was one I would have told you. But two like, I mean, it's like, that's normal for you who haven't watched every minute of this trial, but ma'am, you were literally in this trial. Yeah. So after that, we had the absolute delight of Wendy Lewis giving the defense's closing. And I'm genuinely curious if this lady has ever gone back and watched herself in a trial. She is so abrasive and is almost yelling at the jury during her closing at certain points. And I don't know, maybe she seems more aggressive because I'm usually watching it at one and a half to two times speed. But even at normal speed, I feel like she gets angry. She seems aggressive. And I get having to be a bit more stern as a female in a male dominated industry. But she could use a little Elle Woods training in my opinion. Just saying. Okay, as a woman who is thriving in a male dominated industry, ⁓ you don't got to be aggressive to do it. I'm just going to be real with you. But she strikes me as one of those females who feels like that's the only way that they can survive in that kind of industry. The thing is she's probably never taken seriously because she says stupid shit. ⁓ That's why she feels she has to be aggressive. We kind of got a little insight as to why Wendy was so angry and passionate about defending Kouri. She starts off by stating that she was widowed with young kids as well. And she has learned during this trial that she just didn't grieve properly according to the state and their witnesses. And then she put up pictures of statues of how women have throughout time. Look this picture. Do you notice all of their hands are on their faces? ⁓ keep that in mind. She then put up a picture of Ally Staking, Kouri's best friend who testified for the defense and the state because she was out of town so they did it all at one time and she had quotes on it about how Kouri was a mess when she arrived and she's known Kouri since middle school so this was one person who would genuinely know if Kouri's reaction was real or not. Right. Yeah. And she would know what Kouri truly grieving looks like. Um, really quick. She doesn't live in the same state, right? Not anymore. ⁓ okay. Yeah. I have thoughts on it, but I'm... that's really our only witness that has been in favor of Kouri. So of course they're going to use her in the closing. ⁓ then brought up the fact that Kouri could have easily solved all of her problems the morning of Eric's death by saying that he had a drug problem, but she didn't because she did it murder Eric and she had nothing to hide. Wouldn't you say that if you didn't remember your if he does drugs and all that, she could have easily said, yeah, he does. And then, you know, it would have taken, nobody would have been surprised when they found the drugs or any of that. But also, on the other hand, there would have been drugs around him. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So next up, she attacked Eric's family and Todd Gabler, the private investigator. with the fact that when Josh first met with Todd, the first thing he said to Josh was that Kouri killed Eric. Meaning that he had already made up his mind. she went from there into ⁓ accusing Eric's family being the driving force that got Kouri arrested, even up and through trial, stating that without their private investigator, police would never have come to these conclusions. And they only did because Todd gave it to them. So ⁓ listen to a clip about her yelling at the jury about this. ⁓ Thoughts that? I feel like generally when a investigator gets involved, ⁓ a family bringing him in, things like that, like, obviously they take the information from the family, ⁓ but ⁓ I want to say I've met private and pretty... ⁓ Neutral they're yeah, they really are like they're obviously gonna support the people that are paying them Obviously, they're still seeking the truth. They're gonna get the truth Well, remember at the very beginning of his testimony He said that he told the family that they needed to be prepared for whatever the truth was not what they wanted to hear whether it was ⁓ accidental overdose whether it Kouri was responsible whether Eric was responsible Whatever the outcome of this was, they needed to accept it even if it wasn't what they were looking for. And so he even admitted being- good investigator. Yes. So I'm just like- Cause like what if it came out that, Eric had a girlfriend he has been with for years. What if he did have a serious drug problem and has been hiding it? What if he ended up being in all this fucking debt? This private investigator would have found it and it would have been presented to the family like, actually, maybe this is- or like, maybe you did do it. The police took everything, not just bits and pieces. You know? but once again, the defense needs something to attack. Yeah. Speaking of something to attack, Detective O'Driscoll. Yeah. So I'm going to play you some clips and I, this definitely where you need to be watching ⁓ because listen, control room at court TV is out here doing the Lord's work. This entire trial, they have been doing the Lord's work with their camera, with getting Kouri's faces, the gallery faces, the judge, the witnesses. It's been, they get a gift basket. So does the judge. Whoever's editing this shit or Like live in the control. Live, whoever's choosing what camera to do. Y'all should get a promotion. Y'all were like, this is the last trial that's really heavily streaming before Court TV is officially bought out by law and crime. We're doing this. We're doing this. ⁓ basically, Wendy is absolutely tearing apart O'Driscoll. And while they're doing this, they keep painting to him in the gallery. And he is just like angry, mean mugger, like really bitch. He doesn't he kind of has like a smirk on his face. So at the same time, like I'm seeing the smirk and I'm just like, he's like mean murking with a smirk. It's kind of funny. But behind him is Sky Lozaro to the left of him. Yes. And has a dark brown hair. She's tan and she keeps glancing at the jury and back at Wendy during this part. And Sky is Kouri's original attorney. Who's mentioned in the Walk the Dog Letter. So I love that one, she's sitting on the prosecution side. And two, she is also smirking behind her, like you can just tell on her face, she's like, this is the dumbest shit She's just like looking at the jury. Looking at Wendy, yeah. So here's the first clip. a tennis match. So after this, ⁓ Wendy put up a picture of a Monopoly get out of jail free ⁓ and ⁓ like cackled ⁓ so loud at work. I was dying. I was like, you not. then ⁓ she a big deal out of the fact that the state did not bring up Carmen very much in their closing, reminding the jury that she was supposedly their star witness. ⁓ She then proceeded to be very condescending about Carmen and her testimony. I have a clip, you already know it. Let's listen. So I don't think that they are absolutely capable of being nice about Carmen. No. At all. Like even when they're trying to be like, I wasn't trying to be mean about her learning disability. I'm not trying to be. But this is what it means. Guess what? That's you being a fucking bitch. That's you being mean. Like I just feel like it wasn't necessary to tear her apart again. No. ⁓ Yeah, I knew that they meaning out of without going in on her one more time, and they I feel like that was their like PR that they were trying to do about that part of the trial, but it didn't really work. ⁓ That's the only thing that they can honestly. ⁓ like going though is because like, ⁓ she's a criminal. She's also a criminal. Let's go after her. Yeah. To wrap up the defenses closing, they accused Eric of having multiple affairs while married to Kouri, even going as far to elude that Eric had many secrets he had from most people in his life, including Kouri, blanketing it with everyone has secrets, but Eric had a lot of secrets. Okay. Why weren't those found then? Right. That's crazy. Private investigator didn't find it interesting. Then Wendy got very passionate about her job and her client. ⁓ my God. It was too much. That was ridiculous. I'm sorry. I hated that. I know. That's why I have it. And the fact that the state has not proven their case, which we all know translates into Wendy basically yelling at the jury once again. So let's listen to how she ended her closing argument. Yeah. If you think about it, she kind of like started, you should be sad for me too. Yes, she did. And then she's ending it with, you should still be sad for me because I have a tough job of defending criminals. Yes. It feels like a weird sandwich method that didn't fucking work. No, but I will say that these clips have my favorite line of I'll try a lot of Wendy. Yeah. I know y'all are tired of hearing me talk. I'm almost done. Bitch, we are. We are. Also, I know that you guys are tired of hearing me talk about this trial and we are almost done. I promise. I almost wanted to start like my section of that with that little clip and be like, I am also almost done talking, guys. But this is the very first trial that I have ever heard a judge ⁓ prosecution. and the defense all instruct the jury to not take a vote as the first thing they do when they go into the deliberation room. Which is so weird. Like, I personally think that's a great place to start. Because then you can see where everyone's heads are at. But like, obviously if everyone's going be like, ⁓ she's guilty, like, okay, great. Why do you feel that way? That's a great way to start. And then like, if no, she's not guilty, why do you feel she's not guilty? I think it's smart. I don't understand why they didn't do that. Personally, I don't and they didn't and we're gonna get into the jurors here in a little bit But I just I've never heard no even the judge made a comment on it during jury instruction It's so even that I feel like he made a comment that morning in he made a comment before they act like before they went to deliberate for the verdict Yeah, like so crazy to me. So but it's in that clip and I heard it multiple times It's just I don't know. It's weird Jennifer and I talked about it, too. Do you? Do you guys know of any? like why Like, do you find it interesting? I don't know what I'm trying to ask, I think you understand what I'm trying to say. But also, I really enjoyed them apologizing for if they offended the jury and did not hold it against Kouri. I was like, wow, did you guys go watch some clips of yourself over the weekend? Probably not. Someone probably just said, you guys look like fucking idiots. But also, remember to raise your hand. ⁓ it. Don't, yeah. Be courageous. ⁓ So ⁓ of course the state rebuttal. Yeah. And that's always so much fun. ⁓ they started rebuttal with showing this picture. For those of you who are just listening, it is a picture of an elephant that has shit on a wall. Oh, I thought that was a rhino. Or a rhino. Rhino or an elephant, whatever. That has shit on the wall and there is a human outline in the shit on the wall. And this is to show circumstantial evidence is just as good as direct evidence. I've seen this picture before. I love it when it's used in closing arguments. It's prime. So he then brings the jury's attention to Kouri's actions on the body cam footage to counter Wendy talking about how she's supposedly grieved wrong and to show that the video shows a much different narrative. So we're gonna go play that for you. So he made really good points during this. didn't help move the boys and comfort them in this time when they already knew about their death, which is wild. ⁓ Her covering her face and not crying is not grieving. And I just really enjoyed that zoomed in surprise look about the autopsy because I also have that picture in like week one because I loved it. So he also talked about how once Kouri was told that Eric died from fentanyl, she told everyone it was just a trace. He really did die from the lung thing. The lung thing? Like the, yeah. And he finished his rebuttal by playing the video from the party at the house the day after Eric died on March 5th. And we're going to play you that now because we haven't played it yet. Yeah. So question, why does she look so evil standing in the corner like that? Her little, hmm hmm. Why? I don't know. Like that was wild to me and I love that picture they kept on the side the whole time I was playing just in case she missed it. Yeah. I don't know, it's just like, Miss Wendy, when you say that you didn't grieve properly, that's not grieving. That's you thinking you got away with murder. Yeah. I'm just saying. And I just really enjoy that he just might drop to the very end of it with everybody grieves differently. Period. And I just, yeah. So. Oh, no, I will say, don't have a statue depicting grief or something like that. yeah. There's no statues. There's no Renaissance painting. Yeah, there's no Renaissance painting of that. And I was like, oh my God, that was so beautiful. was hilarious. So that, that was it. the jury went in deliberated. And this was about, so we got a verdict at 6.20 and this, so they went into around four or a little bit before four. If it was three hours, almost three hours, around like two-ish. Yeah, around like two, three o'clock they went in there and they said that they were going to check in with them at 4.30 and see if they wanted to continue for the night or end for the night. And I was at work. I knew about that. My last client came who's also a listener, hey Nina. And all of a sudden I was like, it was like five o'clock. And I pulled up the YouTube and I was like, oh look our clock still going and then I YouTube Sorry, I was like, oh my god, the clock's still going I said it's after five o'clock. I was like they were gonna check in with them at 430 I was like they must be close. I like, there's no way they're close But why are they going so late? And then we checked on it a little bit later and all of sudden I looked at Nina know why is the timer stopped and I'm like freaking scanning the court TV comments and I start you had Yeah, I had Nina at work. Nina. I didn't realize it was you. knew you had you were like, I have a listener here. I didn't realize it was you. Yeah. And so we're like, the clock start? And then like in there, it's like they reached a verdict. They reached a verdict. Like I was like, ⁓ my God. And then it said verdict and we were just, ⁓ my gosh, the next 30 minutes were wild because we're like, ⁓ they also didn't start it right at six twenty. That pissed me off. Eric's dad was the last one to arrive at the courthouse. He got stuck in traffic. Okay, I'm not that we're We're waiting on Eugene. I'm not mad anymore. That's what it was. That's fine. I'm just I was waiting to get off the treadmill to when it started and I'm just going and I'm like, why is it not done yet? Just dying on this fucking treadmill. So we she has a reaction video. I have some reaction that we are also going to play like with the verdict clip as it's playing. We're going to play the full verdict for you now, because I know we gave you a snippet in beginning. We're going to play a full verdict. I want you guys to watch Kouri. She is panicking. Okay. I have, I mean, you can just feel her panic. This judge requires everyone to stand as he reads the verdict. I love that. So we're going to play this clip, enjoy our reactions with the clip. It's going to be beautiful. The fact that she just immediately puts her head down. To be fair, to be fair, the judge in his instructions before he read the verdict said, if you have an emotion or a reaction, put your head down. That was her reaction. True. He did instruct everybody and he was very strict about that. ⁓ He was. Which line? I think and honestly, I think that he made that just in case the verdict was not guilty. That's fair. Because he knew. But I love outbreaks in the courtroom. Oh, if it would have been not guilty, I know that control room on court TV was ready to go with Katie and Amy. With the pantom. I knew they were ready for that. Um, I... So... My reaction video, or my reaction, well I was in the gym. I was in the gym at my apartment complex. There was other people inside of this gym as well. I'm sitting over in the corner punching the air and they all evacuated the gym pretty quickly. ⁓ was because I was happy. I just want to point that and stress that ⁓ I was happy because fuck that ⁓ But ⁓ I understand it could weird. not the problem. ⁓ So we have actually had two come out and give interviews already. Yeah. And I have watched their interviews. You did watch that one? Yes, I watched the second one in entirety last night. The first one I got the summary of because it wasn't a very long interview. I think there's a longer one out there, but So something very interesting we had four jurors that were alternates became alternates They had 12 on the jury the whole time. There's only eight that deliberated the four jurors that they dismissed were female So there was ⁓ was left was two females and six male jurors So when they got in the back both females ⁓ that they believed the four person should be a female ⁓ make Kouri feel like this was decided more of by her peers ⁓ and since there's only two left the second juror who I watched the non for person she goes I didn't want to do that So at the end of the other person did so she was the four person so I thought that that was actually pretty cool and the rest of the males did Acknowledge the fact that they also thought that it was very odd that four females were dismissed and it was a two female for yeah six million a Deliberating team so I did really enjoy the female kind of power gathering in the back, even by the males as well. So for six males to be like, no, we agree with you, a female should run this for a female defendant. Period. especially because she did have a female defense team minus ⁓ dude homeboys in the back. No, Alex, the one guy who like did the open, not the opening, but like he did some stuff, ⁓ first like witness or so and nobody liked him. And then we didn't see him again ⁓ he like tried to dispute the ⁓ Homeboy just sit back there and keep peering over and looking at the Yeah. So, ⁓ just very interesting. They said that they went in the back and instead of taking a guilty non-guilty, they all went around the table and said they're smoking gun. Like what they thought was their smoking gun in this case. everybody had a different one. Yeah. ⁓ But everybody had, they also said that they went in the back and they disregarded all the drama. And they focused just on the facts and the evidence. As a jury should. They said that there's one piece of evidence that absolutely hit the entire jury like a truck. They said they were floored and it absolutely just what the fuck themselves. And that was the book. Huh. When they announced that she wrote that grief book, they all went, what the fuck is this? No shit. Yep. For the second juror who is not the four person, the other female, she said that her biggest piece of testimony for her, ⁓ ⁓ is confirmed the testimony we did not get to listen to was an undercover cop. And she said that for the entire jury, that was the most damning testimony for her. And she wishes everybody could hear that testimony because if you were not in the courtroom that day, you missed a lot. I need, give me it. So isn't that wild? That is crazy. They also all felt that the defense went too far with Carmen. They said that after a certain point, it was clear she couldn't recall. It was clear she was struggling reading those binders. They said it just, went too far at one point, but ⁓ they liked She was a believable witness for them. But if they wouldn't have been able to back up her testimony with the cell phone data, she would not have been as believable. But that cell phone data really did Carmen's testimony for them. And that's why we have it. Yeah. So there's those two different interviews. They were really good. They were really insightful. Yeah. ⁓ it was crazy too. They had sheriffs escorting them all into a private parking lot that was fenced off to where people couldn't even get their license plate or their cars. There was a sheriff drone that was following them in and out of court. And at like day three, the jurors were like, Hey, they pass it out to the judge. was like, Hey, there's a drone following us. And they got told that it was the sheriff's room. ⁓ They were escorted constantly by a deputy everywhere they went. They were put in this room for lunch and they said they had this wonderful room where like the court clerks asked them like all of their favorite drinks, all their favorite snacks. So they all had like, she's a diet coke girl. So she always had a diet coke every single day. And she said that like, which judge was it? Was it Virginia, Natalie Cochran with his breakfast. Oh God. loved him. She said because they couldn't talk about this and they were in this room all day together, they all actually became really close because all they had to do was all they had to talk about was work and kids and hobbies. They're actually all planning to get together. So they were all also escorted out of the frickin courtroom multiple times. Yeah. So they no to talk to but each other. And they can't talk about the case. For three motherfucking weeks. So yeah, that's definitely go watch those juror interviews. I know that there's going to be more coming out, but yeah, it was definitely insightful. And ⁓ That one juror said that she went and has actually watched a lot of the stuff on court TV that they weren't allowed to see. So when the jury was dismissed and all of that, and she said that she is very confident they made the right decision. And she wished that some of that testimony would have been able to be allowed in. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. She really wished that. She goes, I've read the full Walk the Dog letter. She goes, what they gave us was enough, but I liked the full one. She goes, also, if they would have told us that they got that from a jail cell, ⁓ it would have been different too. That's true. She was like, so I'm glad that we made the right choice. Yeah. Yeah. So, the judge sets sentencing for May 13th at 9.30 a.m. And Sam, here's your poetic justice that you were looking for in the week three recap. I've been waiting for this. May 13th will be Eric's 44th birthday. So how about that for some poetic justice? I fucking love poetic justice and we somehow always get it. And I love that shit. Speaking of Eric, I really feel like he has gotten lost in these past four years of motions and hearings and all the drama leading up to this trial. We can't forget that this was all for him. Yes, it's fun to rag on Kouri we all want the details, all details that we can get. It's human nature to be curious about things like this. But at the end of the day, three boys lost their dad and now their mother. Countless lives have been forever changed and because of one person's greed. This entire situation is beyond tragic and my heart just goes out to Eric's entire family. It's still not over for them. Kouri has another trial for all of her financial fraud. And I don't know how involved they are in all of that. Since I believe all the financial fraud tied to Eric and the C &E was wrapped up in this trial. They will still have to see all the coverage about her. All of the news. All of the trial. All of that. Unfortunately, her face is going to be plastered fucking everywhere. For a long time. I just, feel for them and the boys but luckily Eric's family phenomenal. And I know that his sisters and his dad are taking such good care of those boys. ⁓ I know that Cody and Allison are also right there for them. And I just, know that those boys are very well taken care of and loved. And it's not Eric, but Eric's parents did a great job raising him. And I know that, you know, his sisters will do the same thing. And he, in the short amount of time that he had with those boys, I guarantee he rubbed off on them in a much bigger way than what some people probably think. So Jerry. Hold on before you my thought earlier I'm on I'm happy the boys are alive and safe. Yes I am as well. I never thought that they would be at risk because there's never any life insurance policies on the boys or any of that And I feel like this was just after money so there wasn't a need for the boys as well I mean, that's fair. The other motive is her boyfriend, though, starting a new life with someone else. But she had the boys included in that with living in the Midway Mansion. Thank God. And all that. Thank God. Because I personally have done way too many cases lately where the kids are also impacted. ⁓ Usually it's the husband doing it, but we've had some where the women do it because they're psychotic. So I'm just happy that they are safe. Yeah. So jury, after four long years, am happy to say that we finally got justice for Eric Richins. ⁓ Justice has loaded. It has. Yeah. God, I'm so happy this trial's over. You do have to hear about it one more time in May though. You do. Listen, I'm saying it will be a smaller blurp that we put out, but I put out like an episode a week on top of all the other stuff that we were doing. I'm proud of myself. All the daily recaps, the weekly recaps that I've done. She's been busy as fuck, dude. I did this. I crashed out a little bit a few days ago, but I did it. It did it. So on that note. Come see us at our live show, April 16th at Voodoo Brewing. Tickets are on our website, justiceforpodcast.com. Follow us everywhere at Justice For podcast. ⁓ Follow us, like us, subscribe, rate us, review us, share us with your friends. ⁓ Yeah, we just, love you guys and all your support. We're almost to season three. We have a hundred episodes underneath our belt. We have more than a hundred episodes and we're just, loving this. We are. We love it. We love you guys. We love each other. Me too. What the fuck are we doing? You're squeezing my ring. sorry. It's okay. But ⁓ have annoyed you with Kouri Richins enough. We will let you enjoy your Tuesday now. Yeah. ⁓ I another episode that I'm gonna read to her and I'm really fucking pumped for it. But you're gonna hear it next week. You'll hear it the week after. Because our next week episode keeps getting pushed out during this Kouri Richins trial and you're finally gonna get it. It's a good episode. It's amazing. It's a really, really good episode. So we'll see you next week. Yes, we will. Have a very safe week. Hope you had a great St. Patty's Day. All that jazz. Cool. We'll catch you guys next week. OK. Love you. Bye.