Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Resentment in Your Relationship? The Uncomfortable Truth About Your Part | Love | E558

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Resentment in Your Relationship? The Uncomfortable Truth About Your Part | Love | E558 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

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  Speaker 2: That's how it's done. Now on with the show.
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  Speaker 3: I was in a relationship with a man who I
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  Speaker 3: had spent four years with me pointing the finger at him.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Here's something that's always hard to hear, but so true
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  Speaker 1: when we think about it. Understanding your patterns, especially in relationships.
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  Speaker 1: is not the same thing as being able to change them.
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  Speaker 1: You can know intellectually that you have codependent tendencies, for example,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and you can have read every single Brene Brown book,
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  Speaker 1: you can understand your attachment style, you can say all
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  Speaker 1: the things, but still in the moment, you can engage
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  Speaker 1: in the same old reactions that perpetuate the same outcomes.
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  Speaker 3: If they would just do the work, if they would
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  Speaker 3: just have the deep, meaningful conversations with me if they
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  Speaker 3: would just spend quality time with me, if they just
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  Speaker 3: do the dishes for once, then we would be happy.
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  Speaker 1: And that can be really frustrating, especially with codependency, where
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  Speaker 1: you are over-functioning, over-giving. and sometimes unable to set boundaries
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  Speaker 1: or even leave a relationship that is really not working
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  Speaker 1: for you.
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  Speaker 3: And so the way I define codependency is when you
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  Speaker 3: place your worth or your good feelings about yourself on
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  Speaker 3: someone or something outside of you. And so then we
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  Speaker 3: can kind of see how, oh, I'm okay or I'm
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  Speaker 3: safe if I have good grades. I'm okay or I'm
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  Speaker 3: safe if I have you know, a relationship with someone
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  Speaker 3: that proves how lovable I am.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to unpack these patterns, particularly related to codependency
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  Speaker 1: with a very special guest, Alyssa Zander. She is a codependency,
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  Speaker 1: not just expert, but storyteller who is on a journey
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  Speaker 1: of growth herself. She's a speaker, an author, and has
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  Speaker 1: a podcast, Codependency Alchemy, where she shares moments from her
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  Speaker 1: own life that illuminate this struggle and brings back helpful strategies. Congratulations.
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  Speaker 1: And thank you so much for joining me today. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: this is an important conversation. Obviously, it's a big pain
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  Speaker 1: point for a lot of people. And let's just start there.
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  Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, one, for having me to speak
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  Speaker 3: on this because the pain point really is the shame
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  Speaker 3: that comes with confronting that this may be something that
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  Speaker 3: we are participating in unknowingly, unconsciously. And I think that's
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  Speaker 3: why so many of us avoid it and push it away. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack here. Certainly, it doesn't feel
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  Speaker 1: good for anybody to say, oh, I am co-creating the
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  Speaker 1: reality that I'm living in, right? But the other thing
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  Speaker 1: that you're saying is that there are all of these
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  Speaker 1: hidden blind spots that people have in these moments that
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  Speaker 1: they're really not even aware of. And so that's why
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  Speaker 1: bringing this dynamic out into the light is such an
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  Speaker 1: important part of your mission. Yeah. I'm guessing as a storyteller,
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  Speaker 1: there's probably a story here, which is also maybe an
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  Speaker 1: entry point. Would you be willing to share your journey
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  Speaker 1: into this? that also shines a light on what codependency
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  Speaker 1: is and why this pattern is particularly tough.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely. So to your point, it's so much easier to
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  Speaker 3: point the finger and say, if they would just do
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  Speaker 3: the work, if they would just have the deep, meaningful
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  Speaker 3: conversations with me, if they would just spend quality time
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  Speaker 3: with me, if they just do the dishes for once.
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  Speaker 3: then we would be happy. Then we could enjoy our relationship.
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  Speaker 3: Then everything would be okay.
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 3: So that was the relationship I was in. I was
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  Speaker 3: in a relationship with a man who I had spent
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  Speaker 3: four years with me pointing the finger at him. He
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  Speaker 3: was the reason he, like, if he would just do yoga,
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  Speaker 3: if he'd just do the journaling, if he'd just go
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  Speaker 3: to therapy, you know, doing the things that I was
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  Speaker 3: doing to take care of myself. And I had this
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  Speaker 3: hyper fixation on him needing to be different in order
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  Speaker 3: for us to have a safe, secure, meaningful, intimate connection, relationship.
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  Speaker 3: And so what had happened was we came up against, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I'm basically living with a roommate. Like there's no intimacy.
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  Speaker 3: Like if anything, there's just resentment. There's less and less conflict.
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  Speaker 3: connection and more and more separation. And so eventually we
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  Speaker 3: broke up. Now, fast forward to a couple months later.
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  Speaker 1: There's more.
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  Speaker 3: There's more. I'm boarding this flight and he's in the
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  Speaker 3: seat next to me.
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  Speaker 1: No. Yes. Did one of you make that happen or
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  Speaker 1: is this the universe conspiring to To bring you back
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  Speaker 1: together again to address the unfinished business?
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  Speaker 3: We actually had booked this flight before we had broken up. Oh, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And so to honor our friends who we were going
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  Speaker 3: to visit, we decided to keep these flights. But what
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  Speaker 3: was so annoying was that not only did he look great,
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  Speaker 3: he was like all the versions of him that I
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  Speaker 3: wanted him to be. Outgoing, social, light. Just like the
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  Speaker 3: happiest person in the world when the last four years
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  Speaker 3: it was like a deep, dark cloud was constantly looming
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  Speaker 3: over him. Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 1: I am mad for you right now.
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  Speaker 3: I know.
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  Speaker 1: How dare you?
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  Speaker 3: How dare you? How dare you be this thing that
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  Speaker 3: I'm like, I said if you were just this when
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  Speaker 3: we were together, everything would be okay. But you're constantly
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  Speaker 3: in a mood, constantly just not wanting to do anything.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: What was frustrating the most was that the fact that
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  Speaker 3: he used to be that way before we started dating.
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  Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons why we started dating was
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  Speaker 3: because he was charismatic. We got along. There was that friendship, right?
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  Speaker 3: So as I'm sitting next to him on this flight,
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  Speaker 3: I'm having this realization. He was this way before we
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  Speaker 3: started dating. He was this way after we stopped dating.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I know where this is going now, Alyssa. I'm
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  Speaker 1: cringing internally. Okay, go ahead and say it.
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  Speaker 3: I grab my journal immediately and start writing something that
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  Speaker 3: I had no idea was going to change the rest
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  Speaker 3: of my life. I wrote codependency at the top of
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  Speaker 3: the page, first page of my journal. I have no
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  Speaker 3: idea why I wrote that at the time, like I
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  Speaker 3: can see now, but I considered for the first time
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  Speaker 3: that maybe I had a part to play in this
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  Speaker 3: whole thing. I considered that maybe I was a part
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  Speaker 3: of the problem. Not the whole problem. It's not fully
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  Speaker 3: my responsibility, but I hadn't considered my role and things
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  Speaker 3: not working out. And so seeing him in this direct
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  Speaker 3: contrast of outside of the relationship and inside the relationship,
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  Speaker 3: I remember writing, was I the damp blanket over his flame?
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  Speaker 3: my constant like need for him to be a specific way,
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  Speaker 3: did that actually suffocate him and therefore us and our
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  Speaker 3: love and our connection? That's how I got here.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. First of all, and thank you for sharing this
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  Speaker 1: story that I think a lot of people can relate to,
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  Speaker 1: myself included, right? We affect our relationships differently. by virtue
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  Speaker 1: of the way that we are showing up, but I
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  Speaker 1: just want to honor something here right now. I'm sure
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  Speaker 1: everybody else is thinking this. What a incredibly brave and
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  Speaker 1: courageous thing to own and how challenging that must have
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  Speaker 1: been in that moment. But I mean, on the one hand,
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  Speaker 1: it is empowering because if I have influence, then I
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  Speaker 1: have influence and I can control how I show up, right?
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  Speaker 2: That's great.
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  Speaker 1: But at the same time, there must have been this,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know, how did you feel in that moment?
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  Speaker 1: I would feel guilty, probably embarrassed.
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  Speaker 3: Guilt, embarrassment. And I think the hardest part is... is
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  Speaker 3: the blurred lines between guilt and shame. I've done something
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  Speaker 3: bad and I am bad. I have caused this. And
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  Speaker 3: as someone who I do, I've intellectualized myself through and through.
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  Speaker 3: That's what I love to do the most. I have
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  Speaker 3: anxious attachment. I have insecure attachment patterns. And so something
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  Speaker 3: I tend to do is take more responsibility than is
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  Speaker 3: my fair share. And that was the slippery sort of
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  Speaker 3: like slope and line that I had to walk very
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  Speaker 3: carefully of taking responsibility for my part, but not taking
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  Speaker 3: more responsibility than is my part, right? Because I think
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  Speaker 3: with insecure attachment styles and feeling responsible for other people,
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  Speaker 3: we can over, just like codependency, like overcompensate, self-abandon in
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  Speaker 3: that way by taking on more than is our share. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, okay. So there is so much to discuss
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  Speaker 1: here and we're going to dig into all of this.
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  Speaker 1: So many different threads to pull, right? At the heart
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  Speaker 1: of codependency is over-functioning and one person is And you
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  Speaker 1: see this particularly coming out of addiction's psychology, the Al-Anon movement,
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  Speaker 1: how is one person's hypervigilance and desire to kind of
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  Speaker 1: prop up the other person actually maintaining their dysfunction. Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't know if you know this about me.
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  Speaker 1: We didn't do the full intro. My background, I'm a
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  Speaker 1: licensed psychologist, but I'm also a licensed marriage and family therapist.
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  Speaker 1: And systemic psychology is a big part of what I
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  Speaker 1: do in practice. And the core premise is that we
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  Speaker 1: are all parts of a larger system. And the way
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  Speaker 1: any piece of that system behaves elicits a response in
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  Speaker 1: other parts. And so you see this in under and
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  Speaker 1: over functioning. But also you bring up such a great point,
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  Speaker 1: which I'd love to talk about more. The direct correlation
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  Speaker 1: between anxiety and seeking to control in order to change
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  Speaker 1: the way that you feel. I so commonly see that
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  Speaker 1: when I do relationship coaching, couples counseling in partners where
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  Speaker 1: one person kind of intrinsically has a lot of anxiety.
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  Speaker 1: That core premise is if you were different, it's not conscious.
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  Speaker 1: It is unconscious. But then I would finally feel the
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  Speaker 1: way I want to feel. And there turns into this pursuit.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm hearing that as you went through this reflective process,
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  Speaker 1: you started to get your arms around some of that. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, to your point... I realized because,
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  Speaker 3: of course, I wrote codependency down and ordered a dozen
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  Speaker 3: books on it to try to better understand it, because
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  Speaker 3: even though I wrote it down, I didn't know exactly
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  Speaker 3: what it meant. I'd heard it. But, you know, and
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  Speaker 3: like what you're saying, Al-Anon groups and substance abuse and
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  Speaker 3: all of these books I read had that same undertone,
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  Speaker 3: you know, talking about being in relationships or connections with
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  Speaker 3: people who struggle with substance abuse. And that wasn't my
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  Speaker 3: experience with this partner. And so it was really hard
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  Speaker 3: to bridge that gap and seeing myself in some of
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  Speaker 3: these books that I was trying to understand myself better through.
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  Speaker 3: But I did notice these overarching themes, like you're saying,
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  Speaker 3: the underperforming, overperforming, or remind me what you said, because
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  Speaker 3: it's the exact word that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of. Overfunctioning and underfunctioning is like the classic dynamic.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly. And so I actually wrote my own definition of codependency.
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  Speaker 3: And that is when it was like a light went off.
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  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, I can see what I'm
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  Speaker 3: doing here. I am seeking safety. And so the way
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  Speaker 3: I define codependency is when you place your worth or
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  Speaker 3: your good feelings about yourself on someone or something outside
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  Speaker 3: of you. And so then we can kind of see how, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I'm okay or I'm safe if... I have good grades.
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  Speaker 3: I'm okay or I'm safe if I have a relationship
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  Speaker 3: with someone. That proves how lovable I am. You know,
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  Speaker 3: our careers or how much money we have in our
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  Speaker 3: bank account dictates how successful we are based off of
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  Speaker 3: these beliefs and these attachments that we have to things
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  Speaker 3: externally that we think will provide us with safety. Yes.
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  Speaker 3: And so I could see that parallel.
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  Speaker 1: Right. I totally get that. That extrinsic self-worth to try
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  Speaker 1: to bolster a lack of intrinsic self-worth, that it wasn't self-generated.
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  Speaker 1: It needed to come from other people. And I often
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  Speaker 1: see this as well. Part of trying to get a
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  Speaker 1: partner to change is if you are different, then you
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  Speaker 1: will finally help me feel the way that I want
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  Speaker 1: to feel because I can't do it by myself. Exactly.
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  Speaker 1: If you're open to this, I would love to unpack
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  Speaker 1: this further. And again, Alyssa, I'm happy to share stories
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  Speaker 1: about my own life. I mean, you know, I've done
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  Speaker 1: plenty of this myself, and I don't want it to
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  Speaker 1: make you feel like we're dissecting Alyssa right now, you know,
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  Speaker 1: because I think that this is all so relatable. I'm
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  Speaker 1: grateful for your sharing examples, and I'm happy to share
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  Speaker 1: my own. But I guess I am so curious to
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  Speaker 1: hear more about your What you pieced together over time,
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  Speaker 1: I'm guessing, about how these very understandable emotional needs that
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  Speaker 1: you were being driven by, what that turned into in
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  Speaker 1: terms of how you were actually showing up in that
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  Speaker 1: dynamic between you and your partner that influenced how he behaved?
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  Speaker 1: Because you're saying there was a... ABA test.
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  Speaker 3: There was who he was before.
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  Speaker 1: There was him in this dynamic, which is very common,
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  Speaker 1: by the way. People often show up differently when they
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  Speaker 1: are with different people because of exactly what you're talking about.
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  Speaker 1: But then in the absence of that relationship, he kind
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  Speaker 1: of fluffed back out again and became what may have
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  Speaker 1: been himself all along. What was going on during that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: middle phase when you were ironically working so hard to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: They can be what you were hoping or what you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: felt like you needed. What was going on?
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  Speaker 3: So there's dozens, right? But I think that most relationships
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  Speaker 3: have like one core thing that tends to happen over
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  Speaker 3: and over again. And what was the thing that happened
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  Speaker 3: pretty consistently in our relationship was I would perceive, I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to use that word because it's my perception.
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  Speaker 1: There's that ownership again.
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  Speaker 3: I perceived him to be not okay maybe in a
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  Speaker 3: mood maybe unhappy maybe grouchy based off of you know
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  Speaker 3: maybe how many hours he was spending in front of
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  Speaker 3: the computer or you know scrolling on his phone I
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  Speaker 3: perceive that as him not okay or not wanting to
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  Speaker 3: spend time with me and so my anxiety is I
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  Speaker 3: need to fix this I have to try to make
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  Speaker 3: him okay I need to get him out of his
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  Speaker 3: shell so I would make meals that I thought would
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  Speaker 3: make him happy right I would schedule things with friends
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  Speaker 3: that I thought would make him happy I'm like trying
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  Speaker 3: to figure out what will make him happy I'm trying
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  Speaker 3: to fix his mood because I am perceiving it to
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  Speaker 3: be a problem I'm perceiving that he's in a mood
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  Speaker 3: to begin with and so I think what happened for
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  Speaker 3: us is that my constant need to fix him did
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  Speaker 3: a couple things One, it fueled my need to be needed.
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  Speaker 3: I'm the problem solver. I'm the one that can fix this.
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  Speaker 3: If he needs me all the time, then I am
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  Speaker 3: safe because he needs me to survive, right? There's that
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  Speaker 3: unconscious layer. But I think also my constant need to
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  Speaker 3: fix him and whatever he was feeling did something to him,
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  Speaker 3: which is I can't experience what I'm feeling because it
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  Speaker 3: makes this person uncomfortable. And so then there's this alienation,
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  Speaker 3: I think, that happens on both parts. He's still in
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  Speaker 3: the mood, so I don't feel like what I'm doing
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  Speaker 3: is good enough because if it was, he wouldn't be
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  Speaker 3: in a mood. And then he's feeling alienated because I'm
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  Speaker 3: always trying to fix his mood. He can't just feel
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  Speaker 3: what he's feeling. So his emotions are also not good
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  Speaker 3: or too much, perhaps, that now we both feel alienated.
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  Speaker 3: Now we both don't feel seen. And now there's this
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  Speaker 3: wall between us.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: It's interesting because what I notice time and time again,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: not only in my own relationship and experiences, but even
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  Speaker 3: people who I work with, the thing that we fear
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  Speaker 3: the most is oftentimes what we perpetuate through our actions
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  Speaker 3: and trying to like reconcile or try to make it
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  Speaker 3: sure it doesn't happen. You know, not realizing what we
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  Speaker 3: might be saying, you know, underneath it all.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Like the subtext of what it is saying. I am
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  Speaker 3: uncomfortable with your discomfort. So you need to change.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm sure you encountered this as you began doing
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  Speaker 1: what sounds like amazing work, Alyssa, to bring all this out.
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  Speaker 3: No, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: This emotional enmeshment is what you're describing where I need
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  Speaker 1: you to feel a certain way so that I can
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  Speaker 1: feel a certain way. And this hyper fixation on controlling
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  Speaker 1: and managing the moods of the other person, going back
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  Speaker 1: to that like co-regulation idea. And you gained visibility into
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  Speaker 1: not just the fact that this was happening, but also
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  Speaker 1: a ton of insight into why you were doing it.
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  Speaker 1: And it makes perfect sense.
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  Speaker 3: Because at the time, I didn't know that I was
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  Speaker 3: trying to co-regulate. Even that knowing would have changed everything
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  Speaker 3: because I could have gone to him and said, hey,
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  Speaker 3: the story I'm telling myself is that you're annoyed with me.
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  Speaker 3: Is that true? Getting to reality check myself and have
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  Speaker 3: that moment of co-regulation with him because I can understand
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  Speaker 3: and or because I have awareness, really, because I have
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  Speaker 3: awareness that I'm feeling discomfort. But instead of making him
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  Speaker 3: responsible for it, I'm owning it and then allowing him
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  Speaker 3: to meet me in it instead of trying to get
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  Speaker 3: that need met without his consent, really. Without his buy-in,
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  Speaker 3: without his ability. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: I have to tell you. Oh. I have to tell
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  Speaker 3: you that this person who I'm talking about, the one
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  Speaker 3: that I was sitting on the flight with, he's my
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  Speaker 3: fiance now. So we've actually been together for longer than
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: we were the first half of our relationship. So I've
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: actually gotten to take everything I learned in that breakup
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and apply it And see just how much being on
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: the other side of it and just awareness alone changes everything.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: It can change the entire dynamic of the relationship when
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: we have awareness of the ways that this unconsciously kind
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: of runs our relationships.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that. And how about this?
• 21:57
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• 24:42
  Speaker 1: We are talking about how getting visibility into our own
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: relationship patterns can make all the difference when it comes
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: to transforming not just the way we feel, but also
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: our relationships. And my very special guest is Alyssa Zander,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: who knows all about this from going on this journey
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: in her own life and also teaching a lot of
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: people the things that she's learned so that they can
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: transform their lives and relationships as well. So Alyssa, just
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: before the break, you were talking about this really powerful
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: journey of exploration and growth that you went through that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: helped you in a very just authentic and courageous way,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: connect the dots, bring it back to yourself to say, oh,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: here's what was going on inside of me that motivated
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: me to do X, Y, Z that had this detrimental
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: impact on my relationships. And then just before the break,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you said, but I did some work. I made some changes.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And we had this beautiful new era. And we're going
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to dig into this next. So tell us what happened next.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: You settle down on this plane beside this beautiful man
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: that you were like, I know you. You're the guy
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: that I liked in the first place. And now you're back.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: What happened? It happened another six months later. That moment propelled,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: I think, the inward journey that I needed to go on.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: See, it gave you the data.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: It started the excavating. Exactly. It gave me the opportunity
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: to begin excavating. And so then I spent the next
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: half of a year. I've got journals and journals and
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: journals of looking at my pattern, seeing what was underneath it.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: realizing how much I had placed my safety in the
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: hands of things externally, not just him, with work and
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: with my family and all of these different threads, right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: And it just so happened that we ran into each
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: other that winter, and he approached me with, hey, I've
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: been doing a lot of thinking. I had no idea.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: idea that we would get back together it wasn't even
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: a thought in my mind not because I didn't love
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: him but we had a very clean breakup it was
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: a very like we're both going in separate directions so
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: there we didn't leave any ambiguity in our breakup which
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I think was actually very helpful for me to to
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: not be like oh I need to get better so
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: that I could get back with him there wasn't that
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: and I think that was actually really helpful for me
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: in my journey but When he approached me, he was
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: like very calm, the steady person. It didn't feel graspy
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: or clingy like, I just need to get back together
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: with you. It was just like, hey, I've done a
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: lot of thinking and I think that there is something
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: here that we could work out. And I had just
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: worked out a bunch of things, right? So I'm like,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: maybe there is something here. So that started the conversation.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: But realistically, we had to sit down and ask ourselves questions.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: If we want a different outcome, then we're going to
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: both need to be different. What are you going to
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: do that's different? And what am I going to do
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: that's different?
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm having trouble restraining myself right now because
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I am so thrilled to hear you articulate this. So
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I have a couple of questions for you, but I
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: just want to pause here for a second. And so
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: part of my work as a marriage counselor and couples therapist,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: many times people come in the door and Because a
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: relationship really feels like it's on the brink to the
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: point where they need to make some decisions about do
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: we even want to do this anymore? And there are
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: certainly specialized types of counseling and coaching that can help
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: people get clarity around their next best steps. And sometimes
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the answer is, let's give it another try. But without
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: doing the work that you are describing like verbatim, It
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: is never going to be different because to have a
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: second act that is meaningfully different requires both people examining
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: what was creating problems in the first place and then
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: what have we done to transform ourselves so that we're
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: pretty confident we're not going to engage in those behaviors before,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: not just the way we think and feel, but also
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the way we behave and how are we going to
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: intentionally change operate differently so that we get a better
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: outcome with each other. And if people cannot answer those
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: questions with significant detail and a plan, it isn't going
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to be different. And just the fact that you put
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: all that together is incredible.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm so, so grateful for it because we were
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: just winging it, honestly. So thank goodness. Thank goodness it
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: all worked out. But to your point, there does need
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: to be detail. I can't just be like, I want
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: this and I want it to be different. You can't
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: want it. You have to know exactly what you're going
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: to do. And something that I think really helped us
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: in the beginning is we both identified the over-functioning, the under-functioning,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: and how are we going to one, show up differently
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: in that? And then how are we as the partner
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: where we're breaking this pattern? I'm going to forget and
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I'm going to over-function. That's going to happen because it's
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: in my nature and I just have that tendency. So
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: instead of judging myself for that, can you, my partner,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: be that mirror to remind me those moments where I
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: might be under functioning? And then can I be the
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: mirror for you to illuminate when you might be under functioning?
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: And so that was really helpful for us to acknowledge
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: that and come up with a plan of exactly what
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: we were going to do to support each other. And
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: we still do this practice today. It's different because it's
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: six years later. But, you know, there are certain things
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that I'm trying to do differently. And I ask for
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: his support for those moments when I forget. But I
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: have to ask myself, how do I receive support? Because
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: it's different than how he receives support. Me, I'm like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I need a hug. I need you to give me
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: a hug, rub my back and remind me why I'm
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: choosing a different way when I forget. Right. Where he's
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: like he needs more like. heavy hitting, like remind me,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: like lock in, you know, he just needs to receive
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: that different. Where if you say that to me, I'm
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: going to like, I'm going to curl up and I'm
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: going to feel not seen. So why are you yelling
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: at me? Am I in trouble? You know? Uh, so,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: so learning the language that we both receive from and
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: then being that support for each other.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Hmm. But There's just so much things happening right now
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: that I'm astounded by it. It's so good. But what
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: you're also describing is a, not just intentional, but very
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: consensual agreement that you are going to be supporting each
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: other in the growth that you both desire. Because I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: just want to say that you could do exactly the
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: same thing. Say, I'm going to reflect back to you
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: right now that I'm experiencing you this way or I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: need out, whatever it is. But if there hasn't been
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that consent around, this is how we're agreeing that we
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: want to be together and I'm giving you my explicit
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: permission to say these things to me in this moment,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that exact same thing is going to be received as
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like nagging or criticism or whatever. But wow, you turned
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: that into this like engine of growth for the both
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of you. That's so cool.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is really cool. And it's not always perfect,
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: you know, like, you know, some, and I think that's
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: something we can get stuck on is like, oh, well,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: it didn't work this time. And it's like, life is
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: life and everything is circumstantial. And so, in this moment,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: it may not have worked. Can you read the cues
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: and just say like, how can I support you right now?
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: That's been the most helpful thing for me whenever I
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: perceive him being in a mood now, because it's not
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: like he's never in a mood, but how I responded
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: before was assuming what he needs. And so in order for,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: and that's my over-functioning, right? So for me to make
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: sure that I'm not doing that, I need to, I
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: don't want to say I need to, but like I
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: get to ask him what, can support you right now?
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: What do you need to feel supported right now? How
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: can I show up for you right now in a
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: way that would feel supportive? And that has been really
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: helpful in our relationship because I realized that the only
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: way that this relationship works is if we do the
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: antithesis of codependency, which is sovereignty for me, sovereignty and autonomy.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: So that means he gets to feel whatever he feels
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: and it's okay.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You be you.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I get to feel whatever I feel, and it's usually
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: not great when he's in a mood. But can I
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: meet myself in that moment instead of making him responsible
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: for it? Again, sovereignty.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Can I meet myself in that moment? Can I soothe
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: myself without him being responsible for it? That's what we're
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: going to cross-stitch on the pillow and put it right
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the board. That's so good. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Because without it, there is this power struggle and effort
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to control and make someone else conform that creates so
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: many yucky relational dynamics.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So I want to continue moving forward in this, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I also, just for the benefit, Alyssa, of our friends
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: that are with us in this conversation right now, friends
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: who have been you know, experiencing what you are experiencing
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: in that time before and are listening to this and thinking, oh,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: maybe some of this is going on in my relationship.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe I could also make some of these changes. If
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Alyssa can do it, you're giving them hope. You're inspiring them,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: showing them the way. I have to ask you a
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: really important question that I think is one of the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: most key critical elements that can tip the difference between
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: whether or not somebody gets to go on this journey
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of growth, whether or not they stay stuck, if it's okay.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: In my experience, when people are operating the way that
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: you say you were in the time before you did
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: all this amazing work, that there was anxiety, there was self-worth,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: that you were trying to get met through your partner, codependence,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: trying to get him to do things differently, it often
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: feels to people who are in that space like a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: lot of resentment, anger, irritability, even hostility sometimes, criticism, contempt
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that is very other directed. Like to put it simply,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you feel angry with your partner a lot of the time.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Was that true for you? 1000%.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very much true. I would say the biggest feeling
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: that I experienced above all of them was resentment. I
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: even had a moment today where I was starting to
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: feel resentful. It still comes up in my life now.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: It's what I share a lot on Codependency Alchemy, the podcast,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: because this is a journey. There are things that are
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: going to come up. And I was getting out of
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: the shower, putting my face oil on and I was
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: just thinking, I love making the bed every morning. It's
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: like the thing that I want done in our house.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: And I was like, why do I always have to
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: make the bed? Why doesn't he just make the bed?
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: Or if I'm feeling resentful, I've gotten really good at saying, hey,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: can you help me make the bed and we'll make
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: it together, right? Or if I really don't want to
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: make it, I'll ask him to do it. But in
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: this moment this morning, I was like, why do I
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: even have to ask him? Why can't he just do it? Because...
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: It's not made, right? Every day I make it. So
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: clearly I want it made. And it was beautiful because
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: I got to have this conversation with him post this moment,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: but I'm still blown away that this happened. I opened
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: the bathroom door and guess what? The bed was made.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: He made it when I was at the gym this morning.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Man, there's like magic happening in this relationship on a
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: regular basis. I just want to say that, but.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: But the reason why I think there's magic happening is
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: because I've gotten a lot better at communicating how I
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: receive support. When I left this morning to go to
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: the gym, I said, I have a very full schedule today.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Just so you know, that's
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: what I'm experiencing. He knows a clean house helps my
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: anxiety because I've communicated that to him. So when I
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: got home, what had he done? He had tidied the
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: house because I have not just once. This isn't like
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: I told him one time six years ago. This is
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: how I continuously tell him that I ways that I
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: receive support. And I think that in the first half
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: of our relationship, I didn't communicate those things because it's
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: a very vulnerable thing to communicate. Hey, this is how
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: I can receive support. This feels good to me. Because
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: the fear is that I'm going to tell you this
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: and you're not going to do it. And you're just
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: going to validate that what I want is too much.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: So then we just don't even ask. We want them
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: to be mind readers. We want them to know, just
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: know that that's what we would want. Because of course
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: we would. Right? And so I made sure today to
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: go and tell him, thank you so much for making
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: the bed. That brought me so much joy. And I
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: really appreciate you taking the moment to do that without
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: me asking. Like just letting him know. And I don't
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: think that we do that enough, but we debriefed this
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: after I was like, you know, what's interesting is that
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I did this at a neutral time, by the way,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: not in the moment of validating him because I want
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: him to have that moment. But later this afternoon, I said,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: you know, what is interesting is I was just berating
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: you in my mind before that. And he was like,
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: that's so interesting. Why do you think you do that?
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Or why does that come up? And I don't know
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: that I have an answer for it in this moment.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: But he was telling me, you know, how many things
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: do I do that you don't ever have to think
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: about doing because I just do them? And he goes,
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I never think. I just take it out. And this
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: has come up in our relationship before. Like there are
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: certain things that are a priority to me that just
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: aren't a priority to him. And I think the issue
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: is that we have made it personal. That you don't
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: care that the dishes are done. We've taken it personally
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: that you don't care if there's dog hair all over
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: the ground.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Well, the extension is you don't care about me. Because
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: you experience being taken care of and being loved. by
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: these actions. And when they are absent, it's like somebody
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: said out loud, I don't like you. Yeah.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: And so I kind of went off. Oh, go ahead.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, no, no. That he doesn't have that same association.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, I think I steered
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: us off topic because you said resentment did resentment come up.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: And yes, resentment came up there and then, and it
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: comes up now too. And it's usually... When I am
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: dysregulated or not resourced. So if I can first regulate
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: myself and resource myself, get to the root of whatever
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: I'm making the situation mean, him not making the bed,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: what am I attaching to that? I have a whole
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: practice that I now teach. It's the thing that I
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: go to every time I'm triggered in my relationship because
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: it's the how. Okay, well, how? Do I step out
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: of these patterns and into new ones? You have to
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: understand them and then hold space for the part of
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: you that acts out in those patterns.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Alyssa, this is fascinating. I am hanging on to
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: your every word and you are just such a beautiful,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: shiny example of what this looks like in action. I'd
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: love it if on the other side of this next break,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you take us in to some of your process, maybe
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: even share some actionable strategies with our listeners that they
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: could start considering even applying to their own lives. Is
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that okay?
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 42:09
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• 42:13
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• 42:19
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• 43:07
  Speaker 1: That is shopify.com slash LHS. Thank you. I sat down
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: to record a promo for our valued sponsor, Quince, and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: realized once again, I am wearing a Quince dress to work.
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  Speaker 1: in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: slash LHS. You guys, welcome back. Thank you so much
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: for making space for a special announcement from one of
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: our valued sponsors that make this show possible. And we're
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: reconnecting now with Alyssa Zander. She has done so much
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: work on herself, on her relationship, and now she is
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: sharing her playbook with you. I don't know about you guys,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: but I've been so inspired by this the story. So Alyssa,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: thank you for sharing all of this, not just with
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: me today, in our community here on Love, Happiness, and Success,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: but with so many other people. It's very hope instilling.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a privilege and an honor. My biggest hope
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: is that other people can just leave after hearing my
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: story with some curiosity, right? Just curiosity for the role
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: that they play in their relationships, because it's like you
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: said in the very beginning, like it's both empowering and
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: And maybe guilt and shame, but hopefully in hearing my story,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: there's some camaraderie in it that you're not alone, that
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of other people experience this as well.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: So then, again, for our friends who are listening, you know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: in the last segment, you did such a good job
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of talking about what it feels like internally when we
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: are actually engaging together. in one of these old patterns,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: that experience of resentment and anger that you did such
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: a beautiful job of articulating how it is directly tied
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: to feeling unloved, uncared for. And I think this is
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: a great reminder for all of us that anger is
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: always a protective emotion. It feels like you're being harmed, right?
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And so before you went on this journey that you had,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the primary experience was that resentment like why couldn't you
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: xyz and now certainly it flares up but you know
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: what to do with it when it does and we'll
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: talk more about that but for the benefit of people
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: who need to make this pivot i know from my
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: experience as a marriage counselor that when people are telling
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: themselves the story that supports anger and resentment typically one
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: in which They are being victimized, mistreated, not to say
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: that like capital A abusive relationships aren't a real thing.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: They are. So I want to set that aside. But
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: in the context of normal relationship dynamics, it is that
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: mindset that prevents people from taking the kind of ownership
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: that you did. So what was the new story you
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: started telling yourself after that fateful day on the plane
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that That gave you a new possibility that allowed you
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to actually feel differently and reach for something besides that
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: reflexive anger that would have overtaken you before.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is going to be worth writing down, everyone.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Take some notes, y'all.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Take some notes. Resentment is your indicator that you have
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: done too much. Resentment is your indicator that you've done
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: too much. I've overextended myself in some way. I haven't
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: asked support. for support where I needed it. I'm giving, giving, giving,
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: and not asking for anything in return or not allowing
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: myself to receive anything in return. That was a powerful
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: shift because resentment is something that I think a lot
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: of women, especially in relationships who are, they tend to
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: be the over-functioners in a lot of ways. Not always,
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: but a lot of times. We're very familiar with resentment.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: We're very familiar with that feeling. So If you can
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: identify the story, which is why can't they just do
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: the thing or why do I always have to do
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: the thing? If we can pinpoint the language that we
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: tend to use and then also pinpoint what that somatically
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: feels like in our bodies and then remind ourselves that
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: resentment is our indicator that we've done too much, it
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: gives us a pause long enough to reflect back, right?
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: Because resentment is my indicator that I've done too much.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: So now the question turns us inward when we primarily
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: focus outward. Yeah.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Amazing. And that changes everything. If I am feeling resentful,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: it means that I need to take several steps back
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: here right now And that is where empowerment starts. That's
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: where you have agency over yourself again and stop being
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: so other focused because we can only control ourselves. Yeah.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: So if I'm feeling resentful at the kitchen sink because
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: I've done the dishes for the fifth time today, I'm
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: going to notice that resentment and I'm going to reflect
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: that back to me. Okay, I'm feeling resentment, which means
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: that I'm doing too much. I need to not do
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: these dishes. And either just let them sit, like there's
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: two options, right? Just let them sit and create safety
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: for myself that it's okay that they're not. done yeah
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: or I need to ask for help hey next time
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: you're in the kitchen please do the dishes thank you yeah.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity at what point do we need
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: to make space for our partner's preferences I.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Think always Right. Always we if we want to be
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: in a healthy, loving, reciprocal relationship that requires us to
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: honor autonomy. And so oftentimes if the way that I
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: approach these conversations or the way that me and Justin
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: approach these conversations is this is what I'm desiring. I'm
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: desiring support. What are some ways that you can support
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: me that feel good for both of us? Because maybe
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: it's not dishes. He's like, I would rather do literally
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: anything else. Right. And I think before I had a
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: specific thing in my mind that this is how I
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: receive support. And so for me, I started asking, what
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: are ways that you support me that feel good for you?
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: And I started realizing, oh, my gosh, there's all these
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: other ways that I just wasn't looking at because I
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: was looking over here. So I think if we can
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: start having those conversations again at neutral times, not when
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: it's the heat of the moment, but at dinner, when
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: you're out at dinner or when you're going for your
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: evening walk. Sometimes I'll ask him, what are some things
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: I did this week that made you feel loved, that
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: made you feel supported? And last time I did this
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: with him, we don't do it every day, but we
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: do it like seldomly. He was like, oh, you brought
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: coffee to me the other morning when I was on
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: a call for a long time. That was so nice.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: And now I'm like, oh, that meant something to him.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: He clocked it. And so now what am I doing?
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Every once in a while, not every time. I'm not
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: like now bringing him coffee every day. But every once
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: in a while, if I'm getting coffee and I have
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: some free time, like I'll go and top off his
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: coffee because I learned that means something to him and
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: then vice versa. So where can we open this dialogue?
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: to not only talk about problems, which is what I
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: think we're used to doing, but talk about things that
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: helped us feel good this week, things that they did
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: that helped us feel supportive or supported.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you for taking us into this. And again, just
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: like sharing such a great example, a common relatable example
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: of a different way to handle this whole thing. So
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I know that as I don't have unlimited time with you.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I want to be respectful of your time and just
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: thank you again for such a fantastic conversation so far.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: But I also want to make sure that you have
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to share some of the additional specific things
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: that you started doing. And Alyssa, I also want to
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: say out loud that this is not one thing. I mean,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: even just talking with you, this is a very well-designed conversation.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: ecosystem of how to show up differently that starts with
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of internal work. And I don't want to
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: oversimplify this for anyone. But what I do want is
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: some conversation, if you're open, to share a couple of
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: ideas or practices. For one of our friends here right now,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: who is sitting in that yucky place in the time
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: before They're experiencing a lot of resentment. They feel very
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: stuck and they know something needs to change. What are
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a couple things that they could begin doing that might
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: start generating a more positive response that ideally would build
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: on itself and start an upward spiral? That's not an
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: easy answer, but.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: It's not, but it's an important one. It's the most
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: important one question that was asked today. What I'm going
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: to share is a practice that I continue to go
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: to and that I teach in our community because if
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: we don't have awareness and an understanding of ourselves, then
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: if we don't tend to, I'm not going to say change,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: but if we don't tend to our internal landscape, then
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: changing the external landscape is going to be near impossible,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: or we're just going to bump up against the same
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: thing over and over. So I always think that the
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: most advantageous thing that you can do when you're in
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: that stuck, that resentment, that anger is to understand what
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: is underneath the story, the issue, whatever the problem that
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: you're experiencing. So I created this for myself initially. This
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: is something that I used as a tool for myself
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: every time I got triggered in my relationship. It's a
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: practice that I use to come back home to myself.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: It's a practice that I use to regulate my nervous
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: system and also get out of the me that's a
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: victim in the situation and into the me that can
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: hold the part of me that feels like a victim
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: in the situation, right? And so it's bridging two amazing practices,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: shadow work and inner child healing, specifically with a bridge
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: of somatics in between. So what I tend to do
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: when I have a trigger, I'll just walk you guys
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: through it. Do you have like an example of like
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: a issue or a problem that you feel like?
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I'm probably on the more avoidant end of the spectrum, honestly.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: So I think in my relationship, I'm Less likely to
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: get triggered by something than my partner is, honestly. Yeah.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: But like a common example. I mean, I think honestly,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: just the thing that you were describing, like there's a
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: thing around the house or something hasn't been done and
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: it is associated with I have to do everything or,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: you know, this means you don't care about me because
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: this is important to me.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Dynamic has occurred in my own relationship and I see
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: it all the time in couples. So maybe we could
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: start with that one. Yeah.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That's great. So the way that I pose these
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: questions is through an if then, which we kind of
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: talked earlier about, if he doesn't do the dishes.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: If she does, I mean, they, they, yeah. Well, in
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: my house, I'm the one that fails to do the dishes. So, yeah.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: So I wish it could be me. I cannot leave
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: dishes in the sink for the life of me. It's
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: just such a trigger.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: I don't even notice them.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: It's crazy. It's awful.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: It's so funny. So yeah, if they don't do the dishes,
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: then what am I making it mean about me? Okay.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I have the voice of the thing.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: I have to do everything.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: I have to do everything. Then if I have to
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: do everything, then what am I afraid will happen?
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. If I have to do, then
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I am being mistreated, disrespected.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: And if I'm being mistreated or disrespected, then what am
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: I afraid will happen?
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: That it's intolerable, that I can't exist in a situation
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: where I'm not being respected and treated well.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: If I can't exist in a situation that I'm being
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: mistreated in, then what am I making it mean about me?
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: This is a hard one.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: See, and no one goes here. No one goes here.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: They go the dishes and they go, I have to
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: do everything. That's as far as they get.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: But it's attached to something so much more intrinsic. So
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: you can go there if you want.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, so I'm trying to honestly like
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: channel like what would Matt say right now? And it's
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: probably like this. It would be a unsustainable situation that
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: has to change. Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Or what?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: And then he would seek to change it. I don't know. Yeah.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. So, I mean, it's a
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: little harder because you're kind of doing it for your partner.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: But the point of, and this is still shadow work.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: We're still in the shadow work section. If they are
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: in a mood, then I need to fix it. If
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: I don't fix it, then I'm not safe. If I'm
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: not safe, then something is going to happen to me.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: I'm going to die. I'll cease to exist. It gets
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: very existential. That's kind of the core for everyone.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: I end up alone. Then what's the point of living, right?
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: If we can get there to that root and just
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: see all the attachments, that's when I start developing a
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: little bit of compassion for myself because I'm like, oh,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: this isn't about the dishes. This is all of this.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it's attached to a lot of stuff. So
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: just taking a moment to see, whoa, okay, there's a
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: lot here. Now I'm not going to come to my
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: partner with do the dishes. I'm going to come to
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: my partner with, I feel like if you don't do this,
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: then this terrible thing is going to happen. This is
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: what it's all attached to. This is the meaning I'm
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: making about it. But to be honest, when I do
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: the shadow work inner child practice, I hardly ever need
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: to go have this conversation with my partner because I've
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: resolved it within myself. And this is where we step
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: into the sovereign autonomous relationship with self. You create a
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: secure relationship with yourself and then your external relationship reflects that.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: So I don't tend to have these conversations with Justin
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: very often. if I have like a huge epiphany maybe
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: I'll share it with him from that like whoa this
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: was like an epiphany I had in this moment but
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: not usually attached to whatever the initial issue was so
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: after getting to the root of it I guide myself
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: or clients through the next piece which is where does
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: this fear live in your body The fear of ceasing
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: to exist or the fear of being alone or the
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: fear of not being good enough. Live in your body.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: What does it look and feel like? Moving through a
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: somatic experience because we live in our mind and I'm
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: a very heady person. So this bridge of a practice
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: of shadow work, inner child, somatic healing helps me get
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: out of my mind, but it satisfies that itch to
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: understand and intellectualize. but then it helps me ease into, okay,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: now can I listen to my body's wisdom? What's there?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: And then I have a series of questions that go
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: into the inner child practice, which, yeah, I mean, I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: don't know if we have enough time to go into
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: it today, but that's changed my life. And I have
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: clients who, you know, it's changed their marriages. I've had
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: people come to me just on the brink of divorce.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: Like if this doesn't change, then we're going to, this
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: isn't going to work. And now they're, They've had their
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: third child, for example, you know, like child that was
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: not on the horizon because things were ending. And then
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: doing this in our work and just having a practice
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: to go to every time you're triggered is a game changer.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: It is so, so helpful. We can't just hope for it.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: Tangible practices and tools where we can be like, I'm triggered.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: I have something I can use.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Let me excavate this and get curious. And it takes
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: like five minutes, 10 minutes if you answer all the questions.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's brilliant though. Oh, I'm sorry. You were
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: about to say?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: No, it's just interesting what you find. I've done it
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: with over hundreds of people at this point and they
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: always end with, I had no idea that was there.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: I had no idea that I was holding on to
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: this memory from my grandma's house where I was under
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: the bed. It's so interesting how it's all interconnected. And
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: we won't know unless we explore, if we explore our
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: internal landscape, if you will.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. What is it connected to? What am I reacting to?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: What am I telling myself? How is that making me feel?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: And then the most powerful thing is to turn that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: awareness into How do I calm myself down so that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: I can act like the person that I want to
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: be in this moment instead of reactive? Alyssa, this is
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: such powerful stuff. You know, okay, so I'm sitting here
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: thinking right now. I mean, just to share, other people
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: have probably said this to you, but like there are
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: schools of– thought related to formal practices in psychology that
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: exist for these purposes, and they do work well. This
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: is just a curiosity question and not any type of criticism,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: but I'm really wondering. You took it upon yourself to
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: do all of this work through a very DIY.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Approach, was there something that prevented you from getting involved
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: in more formal therapy or coaching versus this quest to
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: go figure this all out on your own? I'm just,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I want to know.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I think it comes back to sovereignty. I think it
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: comes back to, you know, I respect and honor all
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: of the authors whose books I've read and practices that
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: I've learned. And yes, I very much have hodgepodge what
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: really resonated most with me and elicited a breakthrough for
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: me together. I'm not the creator of any of this.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: These are all things that have been done for centuries
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: in some cases. And I would be lying if I
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: didn't say there were parts of me that thought maybe
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: I should go get my master's in psychology. I have
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: my master's in early childhood education, which is where I've
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: learned a lot of attachment theory and just development in
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: the first six years of life specifically, which I think impacts,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: maybe I don't know if that's the right word, but
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: it influences the way that I teach and the way
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: that I hold space for people, I think. I don't think,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: I know, but I know it influences it. But for me,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: there's this level of channeling, if you will, that I
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: feel like happens because I don't have so much noise
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: around right or wrong ways to do things. And I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: think that helps me actually less than it hinders me,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: especially because I have a tendency to be like.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Right or wrong.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: And, and then I want to do it by the book.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: Whereas like, this is just something that is authentic to me. Um,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: and yeah, I don't know. It's just it's sovereign. It's
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: like it's sovereign. It's to me like no one's I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: don't have all these like ears or eyes being like
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: that's the right way to do it or that's the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: wrong way to do it. Yeah, I think I did
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: have a lot of fears of what are psychologists going
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: to think about what I'm doing. People who have been
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: trained for years, years and years to do this work.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: and the exile or the judgment that I would get
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: from those types of practitioners. And it's wild that the
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: majority of people who are directed to my membership are
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: coming from therapy settings, that their therapists have sent them
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: to my community to get support outside of therapy. And
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: it's like the coolest thing because we all long to belong.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: And I had to be okay with potentially not belonging
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: to then see just how much I do belong in
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: this space, despite my traditional, I guess, education in this space.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: But yeah.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. That makes so much sense.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: And I get it that at the core of this,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: there needed to be this, um, self-direction, the sovereignty, right?
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Like being able to listen to and understand yourself. And
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, if you get kind of put
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: into a shoot that is then being influenced by someone else's, like,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: here's what to do, here's the next step in some
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: ways that you're worried that you could get disconnected from
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: that and that it would, your own self-knowledge, if you
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: tend to want to do the right thing, And I've seen,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: so I'm like a clinical supervisor of other therapists, right?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: And so this desire to comply with the program, so
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: to speak, interferes with somebody's attunement to what is actually
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: going on with the specific individual in terms of how
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: they're feeling or what, you know, the truth about this
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: situation that may not conform perfectly to whatever this is
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. And I think that's very powerful. But
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: I also just want to highlight something is that one
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: of the things that I talk about often on the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: show is the fact that, so yeah, I have the
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: traditional background as a psychologist and an MFT. And I
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: think for me, the motivation isn't so much like what
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: is the right way necessarily. I think I'm oriented a
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: little bit differently. But I really wanted to learn. Like
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: that curiosity piece is really strong in me. And so
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I wanted to learn all the things. And not that
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I've learned all the things, but that just... the knowledge
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: was important to me. However, in clinical practice, what I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: started bumping up against pretty routinely is what you're telling
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: me is maybe true for the therapists of your clients,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: which is that traditional therapy is really not enough to
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: move the needle and turn that insight and awareness into
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the action-oriented practices that you're describing, that comes much more
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: from a coaching model. And so now my second act
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: of my career, honestly, is teaching therapists coaching competencies that
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: make these ideas concrete practices. And time and time again,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I have also witnessed the power of a group to
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: support this transformation in a way that is really not
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: possible if you're in an individual relationship with a one-on-one
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: practitioner who can see you 45 minutes every other week,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: like the group, I've been blown away by, oh, wow,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: this is fast and powerful. And I think some people
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: devalue the group experience in a way that is regrettable
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: from my point of view. Sorry, I just wanted to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: share like my own experiences, validate what you're saying, especially
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: the community element of it. There's a whole social learning
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: piece that happens that's really, really powerful.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: It's so true. I mean, both are extremely valuable in
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: completely different ways, right? It's like you can't compare apples
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: to oranges. They do completely different things, right? They offer
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: something 100% different. For therapists who recommend MyCommunity, it's because...
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: I share vulnerably so it allows people to see themselves
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: in my stories and my shares, which acts as this
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: access point, if you will.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: For them to explore that within themselves. Oh, I resonate
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: with what she's sharing. Oh, maybe there's room for me
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: to grow here. Oh, what is that? And with codependency
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: patterns specifically, What ends up happening when you become aware
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: of the ways that you participated in dysfunction is the
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: shame and the guilt comes in. And so what I
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: often say in our community is like why I believe
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: it's so impactful and why I created this group was
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: because that shame and guilt almost derailed me. It's a
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: very dark place. And as I said, I promised myself
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: when I'm on the other side of this, I am
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: going to create a space for people to not be alone.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: in this dark place because it can get so overwhelming
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: with the shame, like not just the guilt. It's the shame.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: I am bad. I've done this to myself and to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: people who I love. And what happens is that people
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: share in this group what they're experiencing. And then other
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: members say, like, I see you. I did this, too.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: They have compassion for that person who has that pattern
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: or behavior that they're being vulnerable and sharing about. And
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: that compassion for them then extends to themselves.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: Because if I can love someone who does the very
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: thing that I do, then I can love myself. Like,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: it's a very unconscious thing that I believe happens. But
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: if I can see you in your experience and not
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: judge you on it, but love you through it, then...
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: I start loving myself through it. I start having compassion
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: and grace for myself. And that is the only way
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: I think we heal codependency is if we can replace
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: judgment with compassion. And sometimes that takes mirrors. And when
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: you're in a community, you've got a bunch of them. Yeah.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: That is the experiential power of a group. If I
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: do something and I feel like the worst person in
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: the universe, but in a group, I can witness that.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: somebody else's humanity and feel so much compassion for them
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: and then have this moment where I'm like, oh, wait,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: they're like me. I can now have compassion for myself.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: That's literally the way that it works. And you're tapping
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: into this. And also that you have so much respect
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: for what's coming up for you right now.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: It's so beautiful to witness it, you know, to witness
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: it in people that live across time, you know, like
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: people in California are holding space for people in the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: UK all in one breath and just to see how
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: universal this experience is. And I always held this vision.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: It's just wild that it's happened and that it's come
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: to fruition in this way and that we have so
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: many members and that it is supporting people. And I just,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: I think I'm emotional because I feel gratitude and yeah,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: I just feel gratitude for the vulnerability of people. And
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: the willingness to share.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: And support each other along the way.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Support each other.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: In a world where we've been like conditioned to compete
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: and judge ourselves and pin ourselves against others, you know,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: it's just like such an act of rebellion. And I
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: have a big heart around it because, yeah, it can
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: cause so much separation if we let it.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: And to your point, too, that people struggling in very
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: intensely dark spaces can be lost without the kind of
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: light and love that you're providing. So thank you, Alyssa.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: You're doing a beautiful job. Thank you so much for
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: coming here today and for sharing your story with us.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: And is there anything else you want to say at
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: the end here?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: I'm just super appreciative that you are allowing space for
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: this conversation to be had because I think it's sticky
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: for some people and they're like, oh, do we really
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: want to talk about this? So I always really feel
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: like it's a privilege whenever I get to speak about
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: this and share it in a way that hopefully acts
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: as an access point for people to get curious for themselves.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: So thank you so much and thanks everyone who's listened.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you witnessing me in my share. I appreciate
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: you witnessing me in my mess and glory in a
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: lot of ways.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Glory, all glory.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: All glory. It's real. It's real, yeah.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: So Alyssa, if people are listening to this are like,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I want to get involved, that group, that needs to
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: be my group, where do they go?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so definitely check out Codependency Alchemy, the podcast. And
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: you can also tap into our community over on Substack.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: It's the same name, Codependency Alchemy. There are options to
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: become a free or paid member. So many resources. If
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: you even just subscribe as a free member that I
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: post every month and even more intimate community when you
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: become a paid subscriber. My life's work is to make
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: this work accessible. I believe it's people's birthright to have
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: access to this. So I mean, you can subscribe for
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: a whole year for less than $ 100 to get support
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: for an entire year. So it really is my mission.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: And if any of that is an obstacle, please always
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: reach out to me. I'm always happy to meet people
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: where they're at and get them access to the space.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Thank you so much, Alyssa.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: Not just for the time today, but.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: For everything that you do. If you're a creative person
• 1:14:46
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  Speaker 1: That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash LHS. Thank you so much
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: for spending this time with me today. And if you
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: have found this episode helpful, do your good deed for
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: the day. Pass it on, pay it forward, share this
• 1:17:17
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  Speaker 1: whether it's in your relationship, your own personal development, or
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  Speaker 1: maybe even your bigger sense of purpose, I would love
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  Speaker 2: You can do that.
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• 1:18:23
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• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: your journey of growth. And hey, let's also stay connected.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: If we're not already connected, come track me down. I
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: am on Instagram periodically and would love to hear from you.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Or if you have a question or comment about the show,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: just email me.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Get in touch.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Hello at growingself.com.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Until next time. you take care and keep growing.