Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Redirect Your Inner Voice and Redirect Your Life Course | a conversation with Sheila Qualls

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Redirect Your Inner Voice and Redirect Your Life Course | a conversation with Sheila Qualls · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: We are so glad that you have joined us today.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: Ashley and I are in the studio speaking to Sheila Claws.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: She has just moved into her new home and getting settled, but she has graciously given us time to share some of her story.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: She is a mom of five kiddos, whom she has homeschooled, most of them all the way through until college.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: She has three off in college and she has two still at home.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: She and her husband have been married for 30 years.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: She was a journalist before uh kiddos, and she continues to write today on her blog spot.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: We'll tell you where to find her in our show notes and at the end of the show.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: We talk about all sorts of different things, but specifically this time we're talking about Shane.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: In the future, we're going to be having more conversations with her, just talking about some of what she's writing about and the experiences that we have as moms and as women navigating this crazy life.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: She is someone who lives wholeheartedly, and we love interviewing people who do this well.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: This episode is sponsored by Super Summer Challenge.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Whether you have one hour a week, one day a week, or 12 full weeks with your kids this summer, Super Summer Challenge is here to help you make the most of every minute.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: Our book, Templates, online workshops, and personalized coaching will help you create more unplugged, purposeful, and intentional moments this summer.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Instead of fighting against boredom, the electronics going on all day, or the crazy busy swirl of activities, Supersummer Challenge will help your kids learn new skills, build confidence, and strengthen family relationships.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Find more at SupersummerCallenge.com.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: And now without further ado, our conversation with Sheila Quells and Ashley Pittman.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you again for joining us in the middle of unpacking and moving and lifting heavy things.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I hope at least your strong boys have been able to help you.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
2:04
SPEAKER_01: The movers actually did everything to their own.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh awesome.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Yay.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: And what they find, my husband will take care of.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: So nice.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: That is so awesome.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I wanted to tell my friends.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, we got to talk just a few weeks ago, which was awesome.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: And I sort of wish that we could have recorded it because there was a lot of uh little nuggets there that I enjoyed mulling over and thinking about and made me go, I can't wait to talk to Sheila again.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: That was so good.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Um But I wanted to share with my friends that I met you through uh Proverbs 31 Compel training, which I think you joined recently, is that correct?
2:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, I probably became a compel member last summer.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: I recently joined an iron group.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's probably how we connected to an iron group online.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: Now, is that where you critique each other or where you kind of partnered with people to critique your writing?
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Compel training is Proverbs 31 way of inviting uh and aspiring writers, maybe speakers, um, just communicators of of words that would compel people.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And they do they do really great, you know, once a week training videos, uh, all sorts of different elements to it.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: But then one of it is a Facebook group that you can ask request to be a part of.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: One of them is a little bit more just community-based, and the other is um iron sharp sharpens iron, and yeah, and uh you can submit pieces.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So that was that was when you got added to my group a few months ago, and right away you shared your blog, and I was like, Oh, I like this girl.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: I need to get to know her, I'm liking what she's writing and and stuff like that.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's cool.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: Well that's good.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm glad that you're enjoying the blog.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: I started blogging probably about two years ago when my kids started um going off to college.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just thought, you know what?
4:10
SPEAKER_01: I have time and I have um things to share, I have a lot of life experiences.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: So I decided to start blogging, and it's it's really been good.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed it, and um I really hope that it's benefiting the people who read it.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of great material where you have lived quite a life, so you write from experience, share with us a little bit about your life, give us a good snapshot of of what that has been for you.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay, um, it has been quite a life.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I've been married for 30 years.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Umgratulations.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: My kids range in ages from 23 down to 12.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have moved um probably about 10 times in the last 30 years.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: So um you just kind of pick up a lot of experiences, um, living in different parts of the country.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember when we moved from the south to the northeast, it was like I felt like I was in another country.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: I literally just imagine so they're just they're so different.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so when my kids started leaving for college, I decided to start blogging because I just thought that um I have things to share, and I wish that I had someone share with me the things that I was sharing with other people.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um I was a young mom.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So I just thought that that would be, and when I was a young mom, we didn't have the internet.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, it looked totally different.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was totally different.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: So we didn't have the internet, so you just kind of were sort of feeling your way, you know.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: You didn't have your tribe, you didn't have that group of people, you know, with you unless it was locally.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I decided to start blogging to share, uh, well, basically to say what other people are thinking.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Now you have a journalism background, right?
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I do, I do.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a trained journalist.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually worked in print, um, and then I did broadcast for a little bit before I started having kids.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and then I have a master's degree also in communication, but it's human communication theory, which is what um interests me in people and what they're thinking and how they may be feeling about things.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: So um hence that's another um thing that drew me to blog was just to be able to share experiences um because you know I know how people feel.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not an expert.
6:34
unknown: Yeah, yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: But you have some serious training and life experience.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: And I'm assuming you know, most people probably feel like I do.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: I consider myself the average person, so yeah.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, an extraordinary average person for sure.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, did you travel a lot then with before kids with your journalism experience?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
6:55
SPEAKER_01: I did not.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I worked, um, I was a military brat, so in that sense, yes, I did.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: We moved every year growing up.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, my father retired when I was a uh teenager.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: And um, so I stayed in one place for um high school and then I went to college in the same place.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: And then when my husband, he actually was in the army as well.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And he got out of the army um and went to work for corporate America, that's when I started moving all over the place.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, okay.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of ironic.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: You get out of the military and you think, yay, stability, and then and then what happens to you.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: That's not exactly what you can I guess it's kept things exciting and you certainly haven't been bored.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: I would agree, that is true.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, another thing that you shared last time is that you have homeschooled your kids all the way through.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
7:55
SPEAKER_01: I have.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: That is absolutely true.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have five of them, and um, the first three I homeschooled all the way through to college.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so great.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And they're at college now, and then I have a um a high schooler and then a middle schooler.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and I started homeschooling again, it was um people were homeschooling, but it was just not nearly as common as it is today.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: So it was totally different.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, the internet accessibility to all the information.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that was better because it wasn't maybe as overwhelming in some respects as far as all the options and the ideas and the input, but then also probably felt a little lonely and isolating at the same time.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: I remember my first curriculum, I didn't even order it on the internet.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I actually called it.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, back in the good old days.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And you and you called not on your cell phone, no, probably on a landline.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: And probably long distance or an 800 number.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually was homeschooled junior high in high school.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, this that was even longer ago, but I remember the the catalogs, you know, homeschool catalogs my mom would get and all that good stuff.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: So I can see it all now.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh the one thing that we had started talking about, we we kind of covered a lot of topics when we spoke last because your blog is you know, it covers a wide variety of mother, you know, motherhood perspective and life perspective, uh the race issue and the church and just just a variety of womanhood issues.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And the the last time we had kind of mentioned that it felt like recently you've been going back to the subject of shame and seemed kind of a theme that was, I don't know, resonating with you a little bit to explore and to share how you have um I I guess are in the process of working through that, conquered some of that, your victories, and maybe you know, not so many victories, but we wanted to, you know, talk a little bit more about this, and I think we're gonna be speaking um more to you in the future and sharing those conversations with our friends.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: But this is one that kind of stood up out to us right away, and I think we can all identify it, um, whether it's uh childhood issues that trigger shame in our lives, or maybe divorce, maybe our kids uh trigger a feeling of shame or embarrassment.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's more related to us, not to them.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, there's all sorts of reasons that we experience it.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: So I would just thought we would uh talk about that and the things that the Lord is speaking to you.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, one thing with shame, um, first of all, is it is universal.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, it affects everyone.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Men, women, children.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's not even something that um, you know, something has to happen to you for it to affect you.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like it's almost it's like it's innate in us.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: We just we know like you don't have to teach your children how to lie because they just know instinctively, you know, um, if they've done something wrong, not to tell you the truth about it.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's the way it is with shame.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been around since the beginning of time.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Adam and Eve, when they sinned in the garden, what did they do?
11:19
SPEAKER_01: They hid from God.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Because we're ashamed.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just think that it is just something that affects everyone.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: And when I realized how big of a factor it was in my life and how much it affects me, I just it was just intriguing because it it will mask as so many different emotions.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Um it pops up as embarrassment.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of times when we feel afraid, um, it just it will mask so many different things and it's really tricky because sometimes you're not even aware that that's what you're feeling.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: That's at the base of what you're feeling is shame.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's what just what intrigued me about it.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: And I just like I said, I just realized how deep it ran in my own life.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: And um, and I just thought, you know what?
12:07
SPEAKER_01: A lot of things that we see in people, their emotions, their reactions, those are triggered by shame.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Recognize it as that.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: And I just think if we if we start to recognize it as that, it's much easier to deal with um than trying to deal with it when you call it something else.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: You may call it embarrassment or depression or you know, whatever it is, we're calling it what it really is.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And that makes it difficult to identify.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's oftentimes the underlying issue to um our response that we feel is maybe unlike us or unwarranted, unfounded, maybe anger sometimes.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: We're like, Well, where did that come from?
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And underneath it is a a shame struggle.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: And I I thought I really appreciated the one of the first pieces you submitted for critique was the story um about a theater experience.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'd love it if you would share some of that with our friends here.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, mommy shaming.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, it wasn't called mommy shaming when my children were little, but basically that's what it is.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had taken my kids, it was a hot summer afternoon.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: We'd gone to uh see a movie, and um, you know what it's like when you have a bunch of kids and you're getting them out of your house and into a movie theater.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: A lot of work.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: It's exhausting.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: You get there and you're like, uh is this worth it?
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you get there and you just think, I'll take a nap during the movie.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I my children had sat down and they were in a row in front of me because they wanted to pretend like they read the movies by themselves.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: So they sat a row in front of me.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, right.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Um was a woman that was sitting in front of my children, and my son, I didn't realize it at the time, was kicking the back of her seat because he was excited.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: He's just jumping up and down in his chair and he was kicking the back of his seat.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh unbitness to me.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And she turned around and screamed at him in the movie theater.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, she just screamed, Stop kicking my seat, and it was really loud.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Um it just got it wasn't even dark yet.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and so of course I see his little face just, you know, he's looking forward to the day, and um, and he, you know, he's just crushed.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: His little spirit is just crushed.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I um, you know, the mama bear in me at the nation.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, totally.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Gosh.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: She's the first one out, really.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, we can all relate.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: I got a big fat mama bear.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: So I just stepped over the seats.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: I was sitting, like I said, there was a row between us, and I stepped over the seats.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: You didn't even go out to the aisle, you just jumped the seat.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: You're swinging yourself.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Sound like a ninja mom.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So I just stepped over the seats.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, because I my intent was to just get close to her so that I could speak to her softly, because I didn't want to make the situation worse.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: My son already felt bad.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: So I just, you know, squatted down behind her and just said, you know, you know, this little boy, you know, he's my son, and you know, if he's bothering you, I will be happy to um tell him to stop, or I'll be happy to fix whatever the problem is.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, please don't yell at him.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and most people don't yell at kids.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Kids who are not their own.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, let's clarify.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Most kids don't, yeah.
15:50
unknown: Yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, I just um quietly said that to her, and she, you know, she was apologetic.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, she turned around, she apologized to him, she apologized to me.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and then I just went back and sat down and I was angry.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought, what kind of a person screams at someone's kid?
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, but you know, as the movie went on, you know, I was able to process a little bit, and I thought, you know what?
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, she is probably, I mean, I didn't know what was going on with her.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: She could have just been having a bad day.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, who knows?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, she could have that morning, you know, anything could have happened.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, one of my big pet peeves is, you know, the bag of potato chips that's sitting on the counter that's puffed up like there are chips, so you walk over and stick your hand in, you know, there are no chips.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, and maybe my son, when she got to the theater, maybe that was just the last draw from it.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was, you know, this little kid is sitting here kicking my seat, and that was just it.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: She had had it, and she just blew up.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Um I said, I was upset.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like I said, as I processed, I thought, you know what?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: She is just, she's probably having a bad day.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: She's just like me, she's just like any other mom.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, I thought, oh wow, my kid was kicking her seat.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So it was really easy for me to think, um, wow, what a bad mom I am.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: My son is sitting there kicking someone else's seat.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Now, if I was sitting next to him, obviously he would never be doing that.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Normally he wouldn't have done that anyway.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: He was just so excited.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not, I'm not making excuses for him.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, and I the natural reaction after the mama bear is then to go, oh my gosh, what a terrible mom I am.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, my kid is doing something that's irritating someone else.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just thought, you know what?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: No.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's children, they all do things that they shouldn't do.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: They all do things they hadn't done.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: We can't put a little computer chip in them.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: I wish we could.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: But we can't put a computer chip and program it to good behavior.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and good behavior looks differently to everyone.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: So it looks like good behavior to me, something different to someone else.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, we can't just program them like that.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: They're going to do things that we don't want them to do.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: And we can either say, okay, you know, I don't like what happened.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna do what I can to correct it, or we can feel really bad about ourselves.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And um, I think I said in the blog, you know, shame was not going to steal my joy that day.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, that was not going to happen.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And so because I was able to be kind to myself, right, I was able to be kind to the woman.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, was, like I said, very apologetic.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think she probably even surprised herself.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: She had turned around and screamed like that.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: But you know, our kids are all they're always gonna do something that we don't want them to do.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: And um when we can be kind to ourselves instead of shaming ourselves and feeling bad about it, we can be kind to other people.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: I can be kind to my child, I'm not screaming at him, telling him, you know, you know better than that.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm not angry at the other person.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because Roman Great One tells us, you know, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And I believe that.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: And I believe that if I believe that for other people, then I have to believe that for myself.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's good.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's something I'm I'm learning, and I think thinking about what you said is so good that if I can be kind to me, then I can be kind to somebody else.
19:43
SPEAKER_03: And on the flip side, if I'm not cutting myself any slack or if I'm in stuck in negative self-talk all day long, it's really easy to see that in other people and then not give grace to them or even to my kids.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: I know that um I had an incident that was much different than yours in that my child was just wrong.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was just an all-out um, I mean, it's a it could be a long story, but the short of it is we were at a Barnes and Noble, a huge Barnes and Noble, and he was not ready to leave and it was time to go.
20:13
SPEAKER_03: And we had had enough other issues, you know, outbursts, and he he went through kind of a phase, a violent phase, because uh red 40, let's just say he he has a sensitivity to red 40 that I did not know yet.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: At that time, and it caused some severe issues.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: Now we've got that under control.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: But all that to say, in the midst of that, I knew what was gonna happen, and so I had to warn the manager.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: He hid under a table, he's like, I am not leaving, and I knew what was about to happen.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: So I walked downstairs and I warned the manager.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm walking out with a child that is going to be screaming.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: I'm not kidnapping him, he is mine, but but he is not ready to leave.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm just telling you, it's gonna be loud.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: So I had to pick him up, carry him like a football while he punched and kicked, called me names all the way out the door.
20:57
SPEAKER_03: He told me he hated me, just screamed at the top of his lungs.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: Everyone is looking, carrying him to the parking lot.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: I had to shove, I mean, it took two of us to push him into the car.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: He's making a scene the whole way home, would not put his seatbelt on, screaming.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: And the shame that came over me is un unbelievable.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: I mean, who gets abused, beat up by a four-year-old or a three-year-old?
21:19
SPEAKER_03: Mine.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: And you can't write.
21:21
SPEAKER_03: You can't handle your child, and you just got embarrassed in front of all those people.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: And the shame, it was like, that's it.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm a bad mom.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: I was not made for this.
21:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's that's the thing.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm not the right person.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: Which is it's totally it's a lie.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: But it's, you know, it's anyway, that's where the Kleenex sets.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where's the Kleenex?
21:41
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, but but that's the thing I'm coming out of, is that it's just life.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: Everybody has these situations.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: Everybody no there is no perfect child, there's no perfect mom.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: And if I can be kind to myself, then I can be kind to you and my child, yeah, who is you know, probably has some shame himself and and needs some.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: Love and affection and some understanding.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I just I just love what you said.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: No, but that's you you hit the nail on the head.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's child is going to do something.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Um it's just, you know, like when Jesus, you know, was with the woman and um they're about to stone her because she's caught in adultery, and he says, you know, whoever's without the first sin, you be the one to cast the first stone.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, what happens is everybody drops their stones and walk off.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, they walk off.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: And that's just like us.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, everyone's child is going to do something that we don't like.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: And no one has a perfect child.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: They're all gonna do it.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think the key is being kind to ourselves, you know, and just you know, telling ourselves, um, because the natural thing to do is to think, what did I do wrong?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: What uh, you know, what kind of a mom am I that you know my child would behave like this?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Your child, my child, they're all sinful little creatures.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're all you know, um, I think about some of the stuff I did and how I must have embarrassed my mom.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I was that little kid.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: Being um carried out of places, you know, right.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Football hole, run, run, run.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And believe me, my mom had total control over us.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was just the kind of kid that I like.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: That you were, yeah, yeah.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: I love I you had said it before, but I think I really want people to be thinking about this because I think this is key.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And you said I wasn't going to let s shame steal my joy that day.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Because therein lies the the root of it.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Who is the giver of joy?
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, Christ Jesus.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: And who is this who wants to steal, kill, and destroy?
24:01
SPEAKER_00: It's Satan.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And so shame is never put on to us by, you know, Christ or following Christ's way.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: It's it's totally a lie from the pit of hell.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And I I I really was thinking, you know, as I was thinking about talking to you and all over the weekend, but I read a new book by Sally Clarkson, and I know a lot of people um have seen her writing as very idealistic, and she's a self-admitted idealist, and she she paints some really wonderful methods and techniques of raising your family and homeschooling and all of that.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: But I really appreciated her new book different because it addressed some real struggles and issues that that she had with uh several of her kids and the kids and one in particular who co-wrote the book with her.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: And it I think as I read it, the biggest takeaway, she didn't really give a formula or a grand solution, but what I I realized through that is what kind of what we've seen here is to give ourselves grace and to know that because so often and just recently had a situation with one of my kiddos that I could not make them do what they needed to do, no matter what kind of you know, rewards I offered or you know, negative consequences that were gonna happen.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: There was just no doing that.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And part of that is just part of his little personality and some of you know the quirks and the unique things that he has to work through.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to think, oh my word, what am I doing wrong?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And you know, there must be, you know, something that, you know, I just I was beating myself up for that situation.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And and I, you know, was thinking through this and all of that and going, you know what, no, I have to come at this from a different approach is because I can't change him, and I've just got to love him through that, and I've got to um realize that that's not the what the Lord is wanting me to learn from this situation, uh, and it's just to ask him for different unique strategy, not to beat myself up that I can't make my child do what it is that I want them to do in this moment.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: And shame doesn't motivate us to change, all it holds us back.
26:04
SPEAKER_03: It's one thing to say, okay, I could have handled that situation better, and to sit back and go, you know what, I messed up.
26:10
SPEAKER_03: Tomorrow's a new day.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: Now, how could I go do be better going forward?
26:14
SPEAKER_03: How could I do something different?
26:15
SPEAKER_03: But shame will hold you right there in that spot and you can't move.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: You're done, you're stuck, you can't fix it, you can't, it's it's just um it's a bad motivator.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: So for sure.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a cycle, you know.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, like you're on a wheel, you know, because shame, shame isn't something that people can see on your face.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: No one can look at you and say, Wow, she's really feeling a shame.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, shame is an emotion or feeling, it happens in the mind.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen on your face.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I can be looking at you and never know that you're feeling shame at that point in time.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's it's it's hidden, it's in the mind.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a cycle.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And when we don't speak it out, when we don't say or reason, then what happens is like you said, we're stuck.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: We stay in that same place, we're thinking about that same thing over and over and over and over.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we don't even realize what's happening.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, you just have this yucky feeling, you just like, ugh, you know, you just can't get rid of it, you don't know what it is because it hasn't come to the forefront of your mind yet to say, oh, you know, and that's for me, that was one of the biggest things was saying, Oh, I know what this yucky feeling is.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: This yucky feeling is shame.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not a medicine, it's not this, it's not that.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: But when we leave it there, like you said, it like it ties your hand.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: It ties up your mind, and you cannot escape it without consciously stepping outside of it.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: So what do you say to, you know, whether young moms or moms in our situation or you your, you know, age where you're sending off your babies to college who, you know, are still maybe in the thick of this, and you know, what are some great ways to start breaking that off of our lives and entering into a new way of of dealing with it?
28:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think one of the biggest things, at least one of the biggest things in my life, was recognizing it, being able to acknowledge it and say, This is shame.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, because believe me, when your kids go off to school, college, they're making their own decisions.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: You talk about shame.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: I know.
28:34
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
28:35
SPEAKER_03: You just hope you send them off with some something, some foundation and something.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and even if you send them off with that foundation, they are making their own decisions.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: You're done with that.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: So, um, but you know, it's it's recognizing it, you know, what it is.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: What is this that I'm feeling?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: And you recognize it because you're like, oh, there it is again, you know.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: You you just can't put your hand on it, you know, you can't put your finger on it and identify what it is.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: And you know, when you recognize something, you know, um, like when you're walking down the street and you see there's a busy street, and you recognize, hmm, if I cross this street right here, I'm probably gonna get hit by a car.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna cross the street right here.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you're bringing that to your awareness.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: I need to do something different, I need to find a different route, I need to look at this a different way.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the same way it is with shame.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: It's being able to recognize it, see it for what it is, um, know that it's not, you know, it may start out as embarrassment, it might start out as something totally different, and then it morphs into shame.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just recognizing it was so big for me because when I recognized it, then I could say, you know what, I don't have a reason to feel ashamed, you know, because when you feel shame, shame is the feeling of I am bad.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: I am a bad mom.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am a bad this or that.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: And when you can look at that and say, you know what, um, I'm not bad.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, just because I don't want to help out at the bake sale today at school, I'm bad.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: The questions are ask yourself, okay, is this immoral?
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Is this illegal?
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Am I hurting someone else?
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And if the answer to those questions is no, then you're probably feeling shame.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And then you say to yourself, okay, well, am I a bad person because I'm not helping out at the bake sale?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, am I a bad person because um my child threw a tantrum in the grocery store?
30:51
SPEAKER_01: No, you're not a bad person for those reasons.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Um you had an unfortunate circumstance, you know, or just you don't have to help out at every bake sale.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Just something you just can't do.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: But it's just asking yourself, okay, is there something in here that makes me bad?
31:11
SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, I would say 99% of the time, there's nothing in the situation that's making you bad.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, God talks about shame and he talks about true shame, which is what we should feel when we disregard God and his word.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is shame.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: The false shame is what we feel most of the time.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's the feeling I am bad because, you know, it's it's not something I did, it's just who I am.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm a bad person.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say conviction uh compels you to be better and to make a change, where shame just keeps you stuck in the same place and and just keeps, you know, keeps you doing the same things that are hurtful to yourself and others over and over again.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: It's the difference between I did a bad thing and I am bad.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: It's the difference.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you're familiar with Brene Brown, but that's her deal.
32:05
SPEAKER_03: It's like she talks about the difference between guilt and shame.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: It's I did a bad thing, you can fix that, or I am bad, and then you're kind of stuck.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: And I I I love her work.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: I do love her work.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Um that's exactly what it is.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, I did, or I am.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: And we're used to landing in the I am zone.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: That's not a good thing.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I wanted there's a couple more things that I wanted to ask you, and I know that you are, you know, getting settled into your new home and um, you know, just all those things that setting up house again entails.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: But you shared last time that you kind of have some ideas from um that were maybe encouraged by the last conference that you were able to attend.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh I just was curious if you'd be willing to share what we can expect to kind of see from you maybe in this next year or so.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, um a friend and I, uh her name is Denise Pass.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: We are co-authoring a book on shame.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, because we just realized um that, you know, what a huge impact it is.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, it's universal, it'll affect everyone.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that is one project that we um are currently undertaking.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and I'm also sort of morphing my blog.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, it started out as real moms don't judge because it was all about just mommy shaming, you know.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Um but I wanted to appeal to a broader audience.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm now just SheilaFalls.com.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Because I want to appeal, you know, I don't want someone to look at that and go, oh, mom, well, I'm not a mom, so I don't need to read this.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: When that's really not what it is.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: It's really for it's for women.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so and then also um there's a new app.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: It's called Refocus.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: And um it's a devotional app.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: And um I am going to have a 21-day devotion or series on about shame.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, cool.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's basically you download it on your phone, you listen to maybe a one or two-minute video, um, and it addresses, you know, um those issues and you kind of ask yourself some questions.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's biblical.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, so those are kind of my, you know, oh that's exciting.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: And you talked about maybe doing some more speaking and stuff in your area um in Minnesota.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, actually, I am um actually gonna um begin speaking to mops groups.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Great.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Because right where, you know, people are with the you know, with women, with little children, with young kids.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a hard place to be.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: It is.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: And I wish I had someone to tell me the things that I know now.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's okay if you don't want to do this or you don't want to do that.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: It's okay if you're you know, if your child um won't get dressed.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Man, I wish someone had told me that.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Is it joined at three years old?
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, chill.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
35:18
SPEAKER_03: They will eventually get there.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: They're not gonna be in diapers when they're teenagers, so it's it's okay.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: Never seen a 20-year-old wearing a diaper.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: So we'll see it in the one in our right, right.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh dear.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Well that's that's where I think that um young moms, I think um, it's just so easy to beat ourselves up.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: We just feel like you know unless you had a stellar role model and most people didn't, right?
35:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're learning how to do this as we go along.
35:59
unknown: Absolutely.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: We have got to bring back that Titus thing where the older woman is teaching the younger woman because I just was clueless and I needed some I needed some of that which you have.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, yep.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's where we're finding uh I I'm loving what we're doing with Simply Wholehearted because like you said, it's it's just that where there's a lot of us who grew up uh maybe with a mom who had to work full time and or a single mom who, you know, did the very best they could, but there was just still a lot lacking where, you know, used to grow up, grow up with uh, you know, that your community right there.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: You worked alongside your parents, you were mentored that way, you had people in the community who would help you if you moved beyond the home.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And there were just so many other things that were put in place because of survival that now we just live a lot more disconnected, even though we're so, you know, easily connected through um, you know, technology.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: We're not personally.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So I just I I love the mops model.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a fantastic way for women to find community and connection and for women like you to be able to share, you know, what you have done in your life and what you've learned through it.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: And I I think um, you know, mops groups and I mean that's you you talked about how um it the way that it used to be.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that the way that it used to be, I think that was a great way to be.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: But I also think that we dealt with a lot of the same issues.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: It's just we didn't have a form for it.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, there was no place to speak out.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: There was no, you know, nowhere for anyone to um share what they were feeling with other people.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I'm just saying what other people are thinking.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:46
SPEAKER_03: Well, because the so the the technology thing now is mostly you're seeing the good side of people.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: I I try to show some my nasty side.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't say nasty, but you know, my that sounded wrong.
37:56
SPEAKER_03: My my not perfect.
37:58
SPEAKER_03: My lot perfect.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Can you can we edit that that I'm just a team a little bit?
38:04
SPEAKER_03: I try to show the not perfect, but but yeah, if you just like you're the only one, if nobody tells you this is the true story, this is what I really look like when I make up or you know, blast your family on Instagram or anything, but no.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: Somebody need there needs to be a place to say I'm struggling and I did struggle and this is what I did in the normal.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so this is life.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: It's not that bad.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: It's so an easier we all have nasty.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of true.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: I share a lot of I share a lot of the nasty on my blog.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: And you do it with such a great sense of humor and transparency.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: It's really is it really is great.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm excited to see more of what's going to come from you.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And I just, I mean, I don't I don't know um what your full desires are, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Lord opened some sort of national stage at some point for you and your just the message that I've I feel that your life carries and speaks and so but one more question because we both are aspiring writers.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: I recently get to work on a an official project that I'm really excited about, but we're always asking what those who are authors or writers what their best writing practices are.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: So kind of what's your method of madness to get out your creative, you know, work and work on your craft.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, one thing is you have to do it all the time.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it can't be a part-time thing.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: It can't be, well, I'm gonna write today, and then I'm not gonna write again for the next six days.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have to do it, you know, in order to get better at it.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: You just have to do it.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And also keeping a notebook so that you're able to write down things.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, you may observe something, or you may hear someone say something, and you think you're going to remember it, but you're not.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: No, never mind.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: That's so true, so frustrating.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: I keep a uh little notepad um by the bed sometimes, or you know, even now with my phone, it's a little harder with your phone because when you, you know, activate your phone and it's dark in your room, you know, just pops up.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: Hey, just a minute, honey.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: I've just got to take this.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: That's right, that's right.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: But I would just say doing it a lot, you know, just practicing it every single day.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Because no matter what, you know, you no nothing that you ever write is going to be perfect.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: You can every time you look at it, if it's you look at it now for the next 10 years, you're always gonna find something that you could have changed about it, or you or you could have done differently.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: So I would just say just do it a lot and just be able to write down your ideas and write down things that strike you, um, emotions, the way you're feeling in the moment.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: You might not be able to um, you know, describe it, but if you just jot down a couple of words and then we you have time to go back and really process it, you will be able to come up with, you know, uh precise emotions to fit the situation.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Right, to articulate it how you want to.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm gonna put all the ways to find you in our show notes, but you said it was SheilaQalls.com that is gonna be your block spot.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: And then also, uh, what was it?
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Was it Refocus?
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Was that an app, a devotional app?
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we focus.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, mm-hmm.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm not up yet, but however, there are lots of people on there right now who have great motions.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: So that's great um if you are looking for something that you can just carry with you, it's right there in your hand.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's very accessible, easy to use.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: There are lots of people right now who have um motions up on many different topics.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, awesome, great.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll look forward to seeing your 21-day challenge um on that.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: We just we're in the middle of doing a 21-day challenge as well for simply wholehearted.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: That's been kind of fun.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Just uh ways, creative ways to express our uh appreciation and our love uh towards our kiddos or to a significant other, but you know, just kind of prompts to remember to say it and not just think it.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's been a lot of fun.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: I think I think I've definitely grown along the way for sure.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when you start um being decide you're going to share with people what's going on in your life, it's amazing how much better you get.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, for sure.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Holds your feet to the fire.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Sheila.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: You've been so gracious again, moving day, and you know, I think if I had realized I would have said, no, we'll do it another time.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: But I was really excited to to get this um recorded and um to share your wisdom and um just kind of what you have to share with others.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me me too, thank you.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you guys having me on.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: I really do.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: This has been really fun.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Awesome, great.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, we we look forward to the next time, hopefully in a few months.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great, it's great talking to you guys.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Sheila.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Ashley.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm proud of you because I know you started to cry, and I don't think we're gonna edit that out, but fantastic.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we had a good conversation.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: We did have a good conversation on a hard topic, but a very uh relatable topic.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think honestly, we barely scratched the surface of the side.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so far.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: We have barely nicked it.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think there's layers for people here.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean we're oh yeah.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: When you say shape you know, I was thinking about this the other day.
43:54
SPEAKER_03: It's like Shrek.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: The old that Shrek, I love that movie.
43:57
SPEAKER_03: Where Donkey's telling him he's like a parfait.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: He's like, I hate parfaits.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay, you're like an onion.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: Because of all the layers, you just peel it off.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: I was like, Yes.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: So it's like that.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in fact, it's funny because the whole onion thing that came up the other night, I think last night at dinner, one of my kids asked, How do you peel an onion?
44:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was so random.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: One layer at a time.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also, but here's the thing: you have to cut it in half.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could dip in your fingertips.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: But you have to cut it in half.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: And I know I just thought because I always bleeding about peeling back layers like an onion.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, geez, that's brutal.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Really?
44:30
SPEAKER_00: When you think about it, because you have to cut the onions.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: No, that is really true.
44:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm in the process.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: If I have been in a process, I do feel like I'm being kind of cut open.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: And like, let's see what's in there.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, so shame.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: An onion.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: We cut it in half.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: We're peeling back the layers.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: No, and like in all seriousness, I know that for a lot of us, some of us it's childhood trauma that we've we've dealt with.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it just all these different situations, or you know, parents who we never maybe felt valued or heard the words I love you.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, or maybe, you know, we just had even certain behavior issues that made us act away that we're not really proud of.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
45:09
SPEAKER_03: Or or if you had issues that nobody understood at the time.
45:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
45:12
SPEAKER_03: And nobody could speak into it or help you, and it was more you were just criticized or, you know, yeah looked down on rather than somebody trying to help you.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Because for for many of us, our behavior issues was caused by something we couldn't identify until later on in life, which is you know.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I had plenty of that.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same here, for sure.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh Sheila was uh just again so generous with her time, and I look forward to having some more conversations with her because our first conversation we I mean we really covered it was quite the feast of officers.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: All kinds of topics.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: I know I do wish we had recorded it.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
45:47
SPEAKER_03: Because it's good.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it means now we have an excuse, we can talk to her again, which we're really enjoying doing.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I like her a lot.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we're obviously gonna see a lot of I mean that was the thing is when she joined the Capel group, and that's not to speak um ill of anyone else or or anything, because there's a group of amazing women and amazing writers and communicators, and so I think a lot of great things are gonna come um from all of them.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: But uh Sheila in particular just seems that her time seems to be now where you know she's kind of entering some of that season where she has some more freedom and ability to share huge differences.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to share with a lot of people what she's doing.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, good.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, in the meantime, we hope that you live simply wholehearted, finding more ways to live unplugged, purposeful, and intentional.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: See you next time.