Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom, dad, little boy found murdered, burned in Texas fire pit

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Mom, dad, little boy found murdered, burned in Texas fire pit · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius
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Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. The suspect new race
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Speaker 1: on Hudson, even calling the victims his friends. Did you
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Speaker 1: kill Rayshawn Maya and ray shaw I said it? Detectives
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Speaker 1: say the remains were burned beyond recognition, but why were
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Speaker 1: you in her car? It was Warden County Sheriff says
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Speaker 1: Saturay Feel cooperated with him on Saturday and was taken
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Speaker 1: to this rural property where the remains were found as well.
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Speaker 1: Investigators have not named a motive burn skeletal remains on
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Speaker 1: a ranch believed to be a missing Texas couple and
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Speaker 1: their five year old son. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us, with me
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Speaker 1: uh hero and icon. The man who has dedicated his
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Speaker 1: life to finding missing people. Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch,
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Speaker 1: who was on the case. Tim, I can't thank you
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Speaker 1: enough for being with us. I want you to explain
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Speaker 1: to everyone how you got involved in the search for
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Speaker 1: Shawn Hudson, twenty eight years old, Maya Rivera twenty four
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Speaker 1: and they're just beautiful little boy Rashawn Junior just five
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Speaker 1: years old. When the Texas Rangers called me on this search,
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Speaker 1: I actually met with a family Saturday morning and one
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Speaker 1: aunt said that she felt that they were all murdered.
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Speaker 1: The other aunt said, no, they're not being murdered. They're
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Speaker 1: they're being held for some reason or another. And then
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Speaker 1: we talked to the Texas Rangers and then they called
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Speaker 1: us and said, listen, we've got an area. We once
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Speaker 1: you all out there, asked and if you have any
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Speaker 1: sisters bring him, which we've had. We had four sisters.
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Speaker 1: And then we got out there, met with the de
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Speaker 1: Texas and when we were actually digging in that hole,
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Speaker 1: Nancy Uh, when we was bringing debris out of that hole,
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Speaker 1: it would literally catch on fire. And apparently what he
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Speaker 1: did is he? Uh, he dug a hole. He murdered
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Speaker 1: the three of them. Of course, he dug the hole,
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Speaker 1: put their bodies in it, and a little bone fragments
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Speaker 1: and stuff we're finding. He literally with that back hole
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Speaker 1: just crushed and cut their body up, then set it
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Speaker 1: on fire. He put tires on there because tires bins
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Speaker 1: were very hot. Then he put tires on there the
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Speaker 1: next day and the next day and then covered it up,
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Speaker 1: and so you know then and that was the last
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Speaker 1: time I believe he put the tires in and was burning.
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Speaker 1: Was Wednesday, and then satty, Like I said, it was
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Speaker 1: still so hot that when we was digging stuff out
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Speaker 1: and would start flaming again and have put it out
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Speaker 1: with a fire extinguisher. Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch is
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Speaker 1: with me describing how he, you know, blood sweat and tears,
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Speaker 1: trying to locate the bodies of three missing including a
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Speaker 1: five year old little boy we now know killed, body burned.
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Speaker 1: Tim Miller off Texas Equisearch, devoting his life to finding
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Speaker 1: missing people. It's hard for me to to envision, Tim Miller,
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Speaker 1: what you're saying. How you were digging, digging, digging, and
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Speaker 1: as you would dig deep down under the earth, debris
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Speaker 1: would come up still burning. What led you to that
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Speaker 1: particular spot, Tim Miller, Well, the Texas land has actually
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Speaker 1: led us to the spot. And I'm gonna say beplain
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Speaker 1: warton County Sriffs Department Texas rank because they did an
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Speaker 1: excellent job on their investigative then, and of course we
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Speaker 1: know the suspect was very very familiar with that property.
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Speaker 1: And uh, and again I can't say enough about the
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Speaker 1: investigators on this case. And it was, you know, it
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Speaker 1: was trying the best out there. It was emotional. I
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Speaker 1: mean when we shifting and finding bones and they brought
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Speaker 1: the anthropologists out there, and then she had a carp
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Speaker 1: and and the one one area the tar pit was
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Speaker 1: adult male bones and next area was adult female and
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Speaker 1: then of course the next one was child phones. And uh,
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Speaker 1: you know the when you see these little crushed up
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Speaker 1: bones and partial parts of skull and you're sifting your
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Speaker 1: fine little chief. Um, you know, we're still here and
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Speaker 1: Nancy and uh, you know a little bit choked up
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Speaker 1: right now. We're the families. What they was going through
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Speaker 1: and then finding their loved ones and being involved in
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Speaker 1: a kind of things like this. It's a it takes
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Speaker 1: a toll on it. I can say that, and you
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Speaker 1: know I just just when you think you see it all.
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Speaker 1: I think I can doing this for eighteen years and
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Speaker 1: I'd plus cases. Just when you think you see it all, Uh,
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Speaker 1: then you're involved in something like this. You know what
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Speaker 1: hurts me to him when I look at when I
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Speaker 1: look at these three in life for Shawn Hudson, Maya Rivera,
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Speaker 1: and they're just beautiful. Little boy Rashawn Jr. Just five
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Speaker 1: years old. I mean, Tim, you and I've been working
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Speaker 1: together since before my children were born, and they are
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Speaker 1: now ten years old. Tim, my son is a little
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Speaker 1: bit taller than me. And I just last night, you know,
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Speaker 1: we were having um, this big casserole I made for supper,
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Speaker 1: chicken and broccoli, and they were talking about what movie
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Speaker 1: we were gonna watch after and I was reading the
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Speaker 1: news and I look at this family and it just
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Speaker 1: breaks my heart of all the joy they will never have.
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Speaker 1: And when I look at them, I mean, the mom
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Speaker 1: is so pretty, and the dad when I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: a picture right now of him holding the little boy
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Speaker 1: up to him, he looks just like his dad. It
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Speaker 1: just breaks my heart is I'm looking at these beautiful
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Speaker 1: photos of them. And I'm hearing you describe the tiny
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Speaker 1: fragments of bone and and the the cover up, the
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Speaker 1: putting the tires on top of the bodies. You know,
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Speaker 1: that's a common theme, Tim Miller, Um, because I was
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Speaker 1: thinking back on the Stephen Every case. You know, the
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Speaker 1: guy that murdered the photographer to raise the hall back,
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Speaker 1: he was putting tires on top of the body and
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Speaker 1: had created a fire pit of sorts. Tim, what is
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Speaker 1: the why do people use tires? Because they burn slow,
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Speaker 1: and they burn extremely hot, and uh, and it keeps it.
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Speaker 1: It keeps the heat for a long time. And and
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Speaker 1: even if we covered it up, uh with the dirt,
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Speaker 1: and it just keeps smolder and smaller and smaller for
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Speaker 1: a long period of time. Like I said, I'm sad.
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Speaker 1: When he was digging stuff up, it would us back
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Speaker 1: out in flames. So when we was digging up, the
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Speaker 1: dirt was hot, the course of the bones were hot,
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Speaker 1: and um, you know. And and the other thing about
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Speaker 1: this fancy is that for Ray Senior, the dad was
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Speaker 1: friends with the suspect. There was times when the suspect
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Speaker 1: was kind of down on the luck. Ray Shawn would
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Speaker 1: let him come to his house instead. At his house
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Speaker 1: he went loaning money and they were friends. They were
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Speaker 1: actually friends, and I got all that information from this family.
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Speaker 1: And but the family also said at the brace, La
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Speaker 1: Mora didn't like the idea that they want friends. He
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Speaker 1: thought there was just something strange about this guy. And
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Speaker 1: of course, now here's the here's a here's a man
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Speaker 1: that helped us buy out every time he was down
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Speaker 1: and out, and then he was suparted by an emerging family,
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Speaker 1: which adds even more um bitterness to the story that
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Speaker 1: the victims were actually helping him. Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: what Maya Rivera's mother, Francis says, I sat here in
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Speaker 1: this chair for the last and I don't know how
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Speaker 1: many days just staring at that front door, probably have
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Speaker 1: function in thirty minutes and sleeping, you know, because we
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Speaker 1: hadn't heard anything Tuesday and Wednesday morning, I'd already had assistance.
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Speaker 1: It's not right, something, it's not right. We all were like,
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Speaker 1: at least the baby, at least baby ran his life
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Speaker 1: was stolen. When I found out the skeleton remains, like,
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Speaker 1: how do you burn their bodies? I'm like, oh, I
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Speaker 1: want justice. The last time I saw he said to me, cousin,
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Speaker 1: I love you, and I said I love you too. Man.
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Speaker 1: That was always him. Every time me and him left
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Speaker 1: each other's presence, he said, I love you. Um, that's
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Speaker 1: a that's a good memory. It just breaks my heart
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Speaker 1: to hear them. That's Maya's mother, Francis and Rashaun Hudson's cousin,
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Speaker 1: Austin Jonas trying to come to terms with the loss
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Speaker 1: of his very close relative and the family of three.
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Speaker 1: With Me, a man who has dedicated his life to
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Speaker 1: finding missing people. Tim Miller with Texas EQ Research. Also
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Speaker 1: with Me. Detective Christine Menina, who heads the Cadet and
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Speaker 1: Explorer programs and former homicide detective with the Indianapolis Metropolitan
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Speaker 1: Police Department. Her podcast, Menina Files highlights all of her cases,
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Speaker 1: and her novel is due in two thousand nineteen. Patricia Saunders,
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Speaker 1: renowned New York psychologists and crime online dot com reporter
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Speaker 1: Jennifer Sakowsky, Jennifer, tell me what you know about this case,
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Speaker 1: because when you look at a family, you know how
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Speaker 1: on magazines a lot of time they'll have this picture
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Speaker 1: perfect family, and that's this family looks like that. They're
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Speaker 1: just looks so happy together. What do we know what happened, Jennifer.
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Speaker 1: You know Tim Miller had brought the story to my
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Speaker 1: attention and literally I had chills up and down my
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Speaker 1: spine as I looked into it, and like you said,
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Speaker 1: this is this is a story of a beautiful family.
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Speaker 1: It's absolutely heartbreaking. I'm going to start with well, as
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Speaker 1: we know, Ray Shawn Senior was friends with the suspect.
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Speaker 1: Ray Shawn Jr. Was named after his dad and Maya
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Speaker 1: Vera's mother. Francis Rivera, told the Houston Chronicle that not
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Speaker 1: only was he named after him, they were both very
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Speaker 1: interested in the same things, like horses and trail riding,
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Speaker 1: and she added in this part really tears at the
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Speaker 1: heart strings that this little boy, Ray Shawn Jr. Would
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Speaker 1: help his grandfather, who suffered from Alzheimer's disease, to remember
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Speaker 1: aims and find bathrooms. Maya Rivera was a licensed massage therapist.
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Speaker 1: I was looking at her Facebook the pages and in
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Speaker 1: January she wrote I have one baby boy who I
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Speaker 1: love more than life. Quote. She talked about being dedicated
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Speaker 1: to her job and caring for people to heal their
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Speaker 1: quote bodied, mind, and spirit. She wrote that she had
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Speaker 1: been through a lot in life, but went on to
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Speaker 1: say how she was able to rise above those challenges
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Speaker 1: that came her way. Maya's mother told the Houston Chronicle
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Speaker 1: that quote, he loved making people feel comfortable and relaxed.
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Speaker 1: She truly sounded like a beautiful human being who was
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Speaker 1: changing her life and the world one day at a time.
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Speaker 1: And then came this dreadful day. Last Monday, friends and
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Speaker 1: family had gathered at a park to celebrate Ray Shawn
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Speaker 1: Jr's fifth birthday with cake and ice cream. It was
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Speaker 1: a little boy's absolute favorite. And you can imagine how
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Speaker 1: excited he was. But this adorable, precious little boy, whose
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Speaker 1: birthday was the very next day, never showed up with
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Speaker 1: his parents. And if you can imagine, the family's loved
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Speaker 1: ones grew extremely concerned. And as this the days passed,
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Speaker 1: they understand, and Blee became more and more anxious. And
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Speaker 1: that is where Robert Staderfield comes in from what Tim
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Speaker 1: Miller said. Tim Miller of Texas ex Search, he was
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Speaker 1: a friend of rage Sean Sr. He let him say
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Speaker 1: at his house during tough times, he loaned money, things
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Speaker 1: like that. And last Thursday morning, the family's car was
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Speaker 1: reported stolen and Robert was picked up in Rosenberg by
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Speaker 1: police in that same car. When authorities authorities questioned him,
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Speaker 1: you know, why do you have this car, he claimed
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Speaker 1: that it was so he could get back and forth
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Speaker 1: from work and that Ray Shawn had loaned him the car.
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Speaker 1: When he was interviewed, and Tim Miller, you know, knows
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Speaker 1: about this, and it's talked a little more about it.
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Speaker 1: It sounds like he panicked when detective talks about being
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Speaker 1: able to opinion him, and you know, the technology is
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Speaker 1: available these days. And he reportedly ended up leading police
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Speaker 1: to where the bodies were. And although you know, the
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Speaker 1: rangers haven't been able to officially identify it them because
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Speaker 1: they were allegedly murdered. And then as we talked about
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Speaker 1: burned and and very just absolutely disgusting face said, they're
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Speaker 1: extremely confident that it is this misteem beautiful family of three.
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Speaker 1: Mm hm, no, M. I don't know. They got me.
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Speaker 1: They got me, pulled me over. My friend m used
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Speaker 1: a vehicle and that's the car I was pulled over in.
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Speaker 1: And you know, all of a sudden, I'm charged with
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Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of evidence they found. I
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Speaker 1: have several interviews with the detectors already nobody's presenting me
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Speaker 1: with nothing. I just got charged with something. You know,
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Speaker 1: your own name, get started. I was just trying to
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Speaker 1: help him until he so until he got he got
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Speaker 1: enough money of making us making sick, from saving enough
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Speaker 1: thinking is to get his own phone. Please. You know
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Speaker 1: why I would in a little trash, but I knew
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Speaker 1: that shouldn't have been still going on. And then when
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Speaker 1: I saw him in the the girls, the car was here,
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Speaker 1: I said, when you get the car from? He said,
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Speaker 1: what I'm using it for? No? WI. You are hearing
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Speaker 1: from Henry Floyd Sr. Talking about right now the person
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Speaker 1: of interest Robert Saderfield, a man that apparently this young
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Speaker 1: family had been helping out with me, Tim Miller from
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Speaker 1: Texas Aqua Search, Detective Christine Menina, Patricia Saunders, and Jennifer
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Speaker 1: sack out Skin of course, Alan Duke and Jackie Howard
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Speaker 1: with me as well, you know Tim Miller with Texas
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Speaker 1: equ Re Search. Sometimes I feel like we've just seen
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Speaker 1: it all, as you were saying earlier, and then if
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Speaker 1: I and doubt sadly you haven't. And it's hard for
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Speaker 1: me because I'm trying to balance trying to be a
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Speaker 1: good Christian, just trying, certainly failing every day, but trying.
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Speaker 1: And with that doctrine is loving thy neighbor as thyself,
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Speaker 1: trying to help other people in every way that you can.
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Speaker 1: And here we've got this family trying to help this guy.
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Speaker 1: Were there any warning bells that they had to stop?
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Speaker 1: I mean, you want to set a good example for
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Speaker 1: your children. You want them to grow up to be
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Speaker 1: loving and giving and tolerant. But here this guy bit
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Speaker 1: the hand that fed them. Actually, we believe killing the family.
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Speaker 1: And can you imagine, Tim Miller. Everybody there at that
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Speaker 1: local park with the ice cream and the cake and
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Speaker 1: the balloons, and then the boy, a little boy, ray
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Speaker 1: Sean Jr. Doesn't show up, doesn't show up. The mom,
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Speaker 1: the beautiful blue eyes and the long dark hair, doesn't
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Speaker 1: show up, the dad, nobody comes the car and every
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Speaker 1: falling they all go home. I mean, Tim Miller, this
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Speaker 1: family had no idea what was to come. No, they didn't, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: And then when I met with the family Saturday morning,
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Speaker 1: and what a wonderful family, and I just can't say
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Speaker 1: enough about them. And when he was out there actually
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Speaker 1: doing the dig, uh, my phone kept ringing in and
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Speaker 1: it was family members calling and I just could not
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Speaker 1: answer the phone. I couldn't tell him what was going on.
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Speaker 1: I had to leave that up to Texas Rangers and
18:44
Speaker 1: in the Sheriff's department to let them know that we
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Speaker 1: was that, you know, we were recovering their remains. And
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Speaker 1: the other thing, Nancy, it's kind of disturbing is with
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Speaker 1: the answer pologists there and as bad as these phones
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Speaker 1: were burned, and when I say earned mean burned, she said,
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Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult at best to even do
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Speaker 1: the DNA to determine who is who. So this family
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Speaker 1: has a long journey ahead of them before their lovedoings
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Speaker 1: are even positively identified. That has got to be pure hell.
19:22
Speaker 1: To Detective Christine Menina podcast The Menina Files and working
19:29
Speaker 1: on her very first novel, Christine, thank you for being
19:32
Speaker 1: with us. That is going to be a huge hurdle
19:36
Speaker 1: for forensics experts because while we think this is the family,
19:43
Speaker 1: we we believe this is Laura Shawn and his parents
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Speaker 1: Maya and Roshawn Hudson Senior, we don't know that and
19:51
Speaker 1: that has got to be proven beyond a past a
19:56
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Will be u so tough and I think,
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Speaker 1: you know, my heart goes out to the family and
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Speaker 1: twudos to everybody involved and in helping to solve this
20:08
Speaker 1: and find them. But yeah, when you start dealing with
20:12
Speaker 1: bodies that have been burned, and especially the way they
20:16
Speaker 1: were burned. Um, Tim Miller, I gotta give you big
20:19
Speaker 1: twudos for assisting in your whole life, you know, with
20:23
Speaker 1: all these difficult cases that yeah, when you you know,
20:26
Speaker 1: I think everybody knows this is his family. Um. But yeah,
20:30
Speaker 1: when it comes to court file and you get down
20:33
Speaker 1: something to the end of this and you're not able
20:35
Speaker 1: to hundred identify, I think it's it's a lot of challenge.
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Speaker 1: To Jennifer Skowski Crime Online dot Com reporter, this is
20:43
Speaker 1: going to be a painstaking task trying to identify the
20:46
Speaker 1: bodies what we know actually, hold on, jan because Tim Millard,
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Speaker 1: you've been at the scene. The first thing we have
20:54
Speaker 1: to do is try to locate all the bones over
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Speaker 1: two hundred bones and human body, uh, right down to
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Speaker 1: the tiny digits at the tip of your baby, your
21:03
Speaker 1: pinky finger. Once they assemble the bones, if they can,
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Speaker 1: then since they've been charred, oh no, since they have
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Speaker 1: been charred, since they've been charged to this extent, I
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Speaker 1: don't know what DNA is left in the bones. I
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Speaker 1: hear you talking Tim, you explained to me the condition
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Speaker 1: of the remains. The condition of the remains were just
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Speaker 1: crushed up bones, tiny bones. I think we only got
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Speaker 1: probably five bones that were than three long bones, fragments
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Speaker 1: chief not many teeth. And I just could never imagine
21:55
Speaker 1: bodies being burnt that bad. Like she said, there's you
22:00
Speaker 1: learn in a human body, so you know we should
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Speaker 1: have bones. We don't have anything close to that, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: we don't have anything close to that. The identification of
22:16
Speaker 1: extremely burnt human remains by genetic fingerprinting DNA is a
22:24
Speaker 1: common task because so often um people try desperately to
22:31
Speaker 1: cover up their crimes by burning the bodies, but rarely
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Speaker 1: can they burn the bodies to the extent these three
22:38
Speaker 1: bodies have been burned. DNA extractor from burnt bone fragments
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Speaker 1: is going to be highly degraded. Now, what you do
22:48
Speaker 1: when you do a d N a comparison is you amplify,
22:52
Speaker 1: you replicate the DNA you've got until you can make
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Speaker 1: a comparison, a comparison to what that's when you go
23:02
Speaker 1: into the home and you get the toothbrush, you get
23:05
Speaker 1: the drinking glasses, you get the hair brush. To look
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Speaker 1: for nuclei roots in the hair to compare to whatever
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Speaker 1: DNA you can extract, that's not going to be the problem.
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Speaker 1: You could also get familial DNA from the believed victims
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Speaker 1: parents family, mitochondrial DNA from their mother. We already have
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Speaker 1: the one mother speaking out. We know we can get
23:30
Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA. The problem is can you extract DNA from
23:37
Speaker 1: burnt burnt black, burnt blue gray, burnt blue, gray, white,
23:44
Speaker 1: burnt bones. That is going to be the problem. Plenty
23:51
Speaker 1: DNA to compare it to, but extracting it, how do
23:57
Speaker 1: you do that? Think about when you have a fire,
24:03
Speaker 1: a fire, you're you're grilling hot dogs, you're you're camping
24:07
Speaker 1: with your children, and the ashes burning, burning, burn, and
24:13
Speaker 1: nothing is left but charred, blue, gray, or white remains.
24:19
Speaker 1: That is what they are looking at. There is a
24:24
Speaker 1: way to do it. The results may vary. They may
24:31
Speaker 1: have to rely on circumstantial evidence. Tim Miller, what else,
24:37
Speaker 1: if anything was found at the scene, I mean that
24:41
Speaker 1: was it? The In fact, the back that she used
24:47
Speaker 1: was the basically a relative from what I understand of
24:52
Speaker 1: his best suspect has twins children and the grandfriend grandfather
25:00
Speaker 1: on that property. The backpole was actually on that property.
25:04
Speaker 1: So you know, he used the back hole that was
25:08
Speaker 1: that was on that property, and then from what I understand,
25:11
Speaker 1: the grandfather actually threw him off of that property. Tim
25:15
Speaker 1: were skulls found? Uh, skulls? You know? One piece of
25:23
Speaker 1: skull was found that appeared to him a little bit
25:28
Speaker 1: with the answer probered to send a little bit of brain.
25:32
Speaker 1: But it was a small, small piece, maybe two inches
25:37
Speaker 1: two inches. Like I said, it appears as though he
25:40
Speaker 1: took that buck into that back hole, crushed and crushed
25:44
Speaker 1: and crushed. Wow. So he did not only burn the
25:46
Speaker 1: bodies but allegedly crushed them with the back COO. You know,
25:51
Speaker 1: in cases where bodies have been burnt, very often you
25:53
Speaker 1: fall back au dental records. That's why I asked, what
25:57
Speaker 1: were there any skulls into you're telling me no, we
26:02
Speaker 1: probably we found probably three maybe four bones that were
26:08
Speaker 1: more than three inches long. That's how bad it was crushed.
26:12
Speaker 1: That's how bad it was burned. When I say bone fragments,
26:17
Speaker 1: I mean so you're not going to have any enough
26:20
Speaker 1: teeth to make a dental comparison. There's likely not going
26:25
Speaker 1: to be a DNA comparison. Although that soft tissue you
26:28
Speaker 1: mentioned is the possibility you can't get fingerprints in any way.
26:34
Speaker 1: There's not gonna be tissue to use, so it's going
26:39
Speaker 1: to be extremely difficult. If the charring had only been
26:45
Speaker 1: on the surface of the body, so just when an
26:48
Speaker 1: accelerant is used, that would be okay. We could still
26:52
Speaker 1: make an I D. But this sounds like crematory like temperatures.
26:58
Speaker 1: So I'm rapidly thinking as quickly as I can, Tim Miller,
27:02
Speaker 1: this is going to be a circumstantial case. Tell me
27:05
Speaker 1: about the area where the bodies were found, Tim Miller,
27:09
Speaker 1: and what it was like when you first went to
27:11
Speaker 1: the scene. What you observed A huge jerry. I don't
27:16
Speaker 1: know how many there's lots are because there's two mobile
27:19
Speaker 1: homes kind of like up front, and then a gravel
27:21
Speaker 1: road that goes down and goes down a little kill
27:25
Speaker 1: and h and he's got cows out there in that property,
27:28
Speaker 1: and that's where he dug the hole, and minute to
27:31
Speaker 1: go back another probably half a mile. There's another little
27:35
Speaker 1: kind of metal building out there that's got some electricity
27:39
Speaker 1: in it, but it's extremely isolated where he did it.
27:42
Speaker 1: Of course, he couldn't be seen. Um you know, how
27:46
Speaker 1: he got in there and did all this with a
27:48
Speaker 1: grandfather on that property. I don't know. I'd be willing
27:53
Speaker 1: to bet this is not the primary crime scene. I
27:58
Speaker 1: bet he. I put money on it that he murdered
28:01
Speaker 1: this family dad, first, mother's second child, third at a
28:06
Speaker 1: different location and brought the bodies there. Now, the reason
28:11
Speaker 1: I'm bringing no part of the investigation is I think
28:16
Speaker 1: this time answer tell me no. I think evidence is
28:20
Speaker 1: going to lead that they were murdered that property. How
28:23
Speaker 1: did he lure them there? You know I can't go
28:27
Speaker 1: in to investigate a uh you know that will come up. Well,
28:32
Speaker 1: let me go to Jennifer Zakowski, Crime online dot Com reporter.
28:35
Speaker 1: The reason I thought this to be a secondary crime scene,
28:39
Speaker 1: i e. Where he disposed of the bodies is how
28:42
Speaker 1: would you lure an entire family out there? Because that
28:47
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense to me. But Tim has been
28:50
Speaker 1: on the scene. He knows their friends friends, Jennifer, what
28:56
Speaker 1: do you know? They were friends side? They are friends,
29:02
Speaker 1: And the circumstances of how the family ended up on
29:05
Speaker 1: the land they aren't really known at this time. Unfortunately,
29:10
Speaker 1: though it sounds like they have may have been meeting
29:13
Speaker 1: up with Robert Saderfield again, you know, for reasons unknown.
29:17
Speaker 1: But they were friends, so meeting would not have been
29:21
Speaker 1: so unusual. But what that meeting was about, we just
29:24
Speaker 1: don't know yet, So possibly luring them out there for
29:27
Speaker 1: a meeting. Um. A few, very few teeth have been found,
29:32
Speaker 1: according to Tim Miller, joining us from Texas EQ with
29:35
Speaker 1: search now, teeth typically offer great potential to get d
29:40
Speaker 1: N a sampling. Um, what you do is you go
29:45
Speaker 1: to the very center of the tooth for DNA while
29:48
Speaker 1: the outside may be burned to a charred on the
29:55
Speaker 1: center of the tooth very often you can find d NA. Again,
30:00
Speaker 1: If that doesn't exist here, we're gonna have to fall
30:03
Speaker 1: back on circumstantial evidence that these are their bodies. What
30:08
Speaker 1: will that be? Yes, I'm sorry for they lost, you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: I hope the real persons found And um, you know,
30:14
Speaker 1: I pray and I and I'm grief strip striking with
30:17
Speaker 1: him as well. Um, and why not seem like I'm
30:20
Speaker 1: going through a whole another storm myself. But you know
30:22
Speaker 1: I feel that pain. Did you can't? Ray Sean Maya
30:26
Speaker 1: and Ray Shawan Jr. I just said I did not
30:28
Speaker 1: do it? Now, why were you in her heart? Um?
30:32
Speaker 1: It was agreement that we had and they came. They
30:34
Speaker 1: were going out of town. They came and had another vehicle. Um,
30:38
Speaker 1: they put the things out of the silver about out
30:40
Speaker 1: of the grabber and put it in the black vehicle,
30:45
Speaker 1: and UM, I was gonna use that vehicle to go
30:47
Speaker 1: see my son in Dallas. This past weekend, you were
30:50
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of person of interest, Robert Saderfield and
30:54
Speaker 1: the brutal death of a beautiful young mom, her little
30:58
Speaker 1: five year old bull boy, and the husband, Rashawn Senior,
31:04
Speaker 1: all dead. They didn't show up for the five year
31:07
Speaker 1: old birthday party at a local park, complete with birthday cake,
31:12
Speaker 1: ice cream, balloons, the works. Everybody was actually gathered there waiting.
31:18
Speaker 1: They didn't show up. Their bodies, we believe, were found
31:24
Speaker 1: burned and buried with us. Tim Miller from Texas Equisearch,
31:28
Speaker 1: who says that as he was performing the dig uh,
31:33
Speaker 1: debris will come up still burning. Patricia Saunders joining me
31:38
Speaker 1: were now New York psychologist listening to Robert Centerfield, who
31:43
Speaker 1: is the police target right now. He seems to have
31:46
Speaker 1: an answer for everything, even driving the dead mom's car,
31:52
Speaker 1: and he he just says it's so easily just rolls
31:55
Speaker 1: off his tongue pat where it's the ease with which
31:58
Speaker 1: he says that that um maybe ion in the fact
32:03
Speaker 1: that this man has no empathy, no compassion, and no guilt. Um.
32:09
Speaker 1: Obviously he prepared his story, but maybe dealing with a
32:14
Speaker 1: Homi satal psychopath. You know what's interesting, Tim Miller from
32:17
Speaker 1: Texas Psycho Search telling us that they had befriended center Field,
32:23
Speaker 1: They helped him out. Uh, they loaned him money, They
32:28
Speaker 1: were trying to give him a hand, Tim Miller, what
32:33
Speaker 1: more do you know about that aspect of this investigation. Well,
32:37
Speaker 1: the aunt told me Saturday morning when when he was
32:40
Speaker 1: pulled over in the car and they asked him what
32:44
Speaker 1: he was doing driving a car. He said, well, they
32:46
Speaker 1: loaned me the car to get back and forth and work,
32:50
Speaker 1: and then they drove away in uh Ra sans black Hub. Well,
32:57
Speaker 1: but little did they know that Rayel unfortunately got an
33:00
Speaker 1: accident three weeks prior to that in the Milish So
33:08
Speaker 1: we're alive. The first words was picked up for but
33:14
Speaker 1: we know also Francis Rivera, who was just speaking this.
33:19
Speaker 1: Maya's mother says she grows grew worried the week before
33:24
Speaker 1: when the three didn't show up for a Shawn Junior's
33:27
Speaker 1: fifth birthday party. They're in the park with cake and
33:31
Speaker 1: ice cream that she can't stand and think of the
33:34
Speaker 1: wise and the winds regarding their death, I e. The details,
33:40
Speaker 1: and she hopes to bury the three of them together
33:43
Speaker 1: once the remains are officially identified to Detective Christine menina Um,
33:52
Speaker 1: former Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department homicide detective, what do we
33:57
Speaker 1: do now, Christine? Well, and I'll tell you this case
34:01
Speaker 1: is I've had a fund at them before too, but
34:06
Speaker 1: nothing to this degree. Were identification was going to be
34:09
Speaker 1: so difficult, and I have to agree with you, it's
34:12
Speaker 1: going to be a circumstantial It'll be interesting to get
34:15
Speaker 1: more information about the suspects that was friends and and
34:20
Speaker 1: kind of developed that relationship and see, you know why
34:25
Speaker 1: why they were there And at first, uh like what
34:27
Speaker 1: you said, Nancy, I kind of agree that at the
34:30
Speaker 1: time probably happened somewhere else and they were reinsported. But
34:33
Speaker 1: with what Tim is saying, there's obviously a little bit
34:36
Speaker 1: more information of why they got there. I mean, did
34:39
Speaker 1: he say he had a birthday gift for him? You know,
34:41
Speaker 1: It'll just be interesting to see what kind of kind
34:44
Speaker 1: of you know, friendship was developed, but as far as
34:48
Speaker 1: what happens now, I mean, it's just gonna take a
34:50
Speaker 1: ton of work to try to get the pieces together again.
34:53
Speaker 1: It's going to be a circumstantial case. Probably. It's that
34:56
Speaker 1: based on the information that Jim was kind of described
35:00
Speaker 1: me today, and just try to give something right to
35:03
Speaker 1: the family. Um, you know, I think you're seen with
35:07
Speaker 1: what I'm saying that I want to know the whos
35:08
Speaker 1: and the wise and I think eventually they probably will, um,
35:12
Speaker 1: you know, but they're in such shock, and I think
35:14
Speaker 1: it's just it's just a heartbreaking thing here in this beautiful,
35:18
Speaker 1: beautiful family and and being missing before the burson. I mean,
35:23
Speaker 1: I don't think this get me work, and I do.
35:25
Speaker 1: You think you've seen it all, you know, and then
35:28
Speaker 1: you get a case like this. You know what's interesting though,
35:31
Speaker 1: Jennifer Zikowski Crime online dot Com. Hold on, I hope
35:36
Speaker 1: you're sitting down, Jennifer. This guy, Robert Saderfield has stated quote,
35:42
Speaker 1: it may not seem like it, but I'm going through
35:44
Speaker 1: a whole other storm myself. I feel their pain. Referring
35:49
Speaker 1: to the three victims, he feels their pain and the
35:56
Speaker 1: pain of their their families. What do we know, Jennifer
36:01
Speaker 1: Skowski about Robert Sadderfield? What could have possibly been the motive?
36:07
Speaker 1: What is his history? What, if anything do we know? Yes,
36:11
Speaker 1: Robert Saderfield from what you just said and the things
36:16
Speaker 1: that he said regarding this family, to me, that describes
36:20
Speaker 1: a psychopath. And when you look at his criminal history,
36:24
Speaker 1: that could very well be his Court records show a
36:28
Speaker 1: fifteen year criminal history for Robert that includes theft, assault,
36:34
Speaker 1: avating the arrest, and terroristic threat charges. So this is
36:39
Speaker 1: not his first rodeo with the law. Wow, do you
36:44
Speaker 1: hear that? To Tim Miller joining me with Texas Equisearch?
36:48
Speaker 1: This guy Sadderfield fifteen year criminal that we know of theft, assault,
36:54
Speaker 1: evading arrest, terroristic threat. Tim Miller, I'm just trying to
36:59
Speaker 1: imagine you you going onto that scene. How did you
37:03
Speaker 1: go about conducting the dig? To start with? Well, the
37:07
Speaker 1: detectives were there when we got there, and they had
37:11
Speaker 1: one sifter that they was sifting through, and then we
37:14
Speaker 1: brought four other sifters, and uh, what is a sifter? Well,
37:19
Speaker 1: let's actually when we showed the dirt into a screen basically,
37:25
Speaker 1: and then we shake it and the dirt falls out
37:27
Speaker 1: and then a bigger pieces stay in and so actually
37:32
Speaker 1: had our hands and there sinking through the stuff and
37:34
Speaker 1: then picking up the little bones giving them to the anthropologists,
37:38
Speaker 1: and then watching her try to put things back together.
37:44
Speaker 1: And and again it was when you've seen the three
37:47
Speaker 1: little piles was trying to put back together, and then
37:50
Speaker 1: the the baby piles, the child piles. It was like,
37:55
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's this really really is this really happy?
38:00
Speaker 1: I mean? And you know what again, when I left
38:04
Speaker 1: it just having like tears out of my eyes and
38:07
Speaker 1: and just say, oh my god. You know, there's family
38:09
Speaker 1: is now going through the worst time I could ever
38:11
Speaker 1: go through. How do they get through a grieving process
38:15
Speaker 1: such as this and and such a neatly such a
38:19
Speaker 1: close family doing trail rights and horses and um, you know,
38:25
Speaker 1: a love and family? I don't they love and family?
38:27
Speaker 1: After meeting the other family members, and you know that's
38:31
Speaker 1: not always the case. You know, you don't see very
38:34
Speaker 1: many functional families in the world today, and I certainly
38:38
Speaker 1: considered them as one. And uh uh, you know, how
38:43
Speaker 1: do you have words? I mean, there's no for comfort
38:46
Speaker 1: you can even give this family right now, except like
38:48
Speaker 1: you say, Nancy, we feel their pain. Uh, we've been there,
38:53
Speaker 1: we know what they're going through. But again there's there's
38:57
Speaker 1: no words of comfort. All we can do is just
39:00
Speaker 1: through difficult time experience in my life. It's amazing to me,
39:07
Speaker 1: Tim Miller, that as you were digging, as you were
39:11
Speaker 1: sifting to try to find these bodies, that debris would
39:15
Speaker 1: come up still burning. And another fact that I know
39:21
Speaker 1: is this witness, Henry Floyd's senior states that he noticed
39:28
Speaker 1: something strange that suddenly this guy, Robert Centerfield, had a
39:34
Speaker 1: brand new car or new to him, and that he
39:39
Speaker 1: observed center Field burning trash for a really long time
39:45
Speaker 1: and thought it was suspicious that he should still be
39:49
Speaker 1: burning trash, that it was still going on. You know,
39:54
Speaker 1: it takes an incredibly long time for a human body
39:59
Speaker 1: to earn in its entirety, and I'd be willing to
40:03
Speaker 1: put money on that's exactly what he was doing out there.
40:07
Speaker 1: This witness says he sees Centerfield in the missing Mom's
40:13
Speaker 1: car and said, where'd you get the car? And center
40:16
Speaker 1: Field responds, quote, I'm using it for a while now
40:20
Speaker 1: right there. Patricia Saunders, New York Psychologists, he wouldn't answer.
40:24
Speaker 1: He didn't answer. He just said I'm using it for
40:27
Speaker 1: a while. He didn't say where he got it? Uh,
40:30
Speaker 1: did he buy it? Did? Where did he buy it? Nothing?
40:34
Speaker 1: He gave a very vague answer. And I find that
40:37
Speaker 1: telling Patricia Saunders psychopaths aren't necessarily very smart, but ad
40:47
Speaker 1: And that's world professionals, and you guys have seen a
40:52
Speaker 1: lot more than I have. It's something I learned asking
40:55
Speaker 1: nine eleven, is that anybody caregivers Texas Core Investigators, um,
41:04
Speaker 1: Tim Miller, we only a little bit ways of plettle
41:10
Speaker 1: of steaming trauma debriefing, and it's something that really needs
41:18
Speaker 1: to be funded for any kind of lacrossing person. Right now,
41:22
Speaker 1: we know Patricia, Jennifer Christine Tim that he has been charged,
41:30
Speaker 1: but the case will not hold up unless those bodies
41:33
Speaker 1: can be identified. Unless there's circumstantial evidence to prove circumstantially
41:40
Speaker 1: that these are the victims, Tim Miller, Texas equ Research.
41:45
Speaker 1: They're on the scene, having been part of the recovery
41:49
Speaker 1: and the dig the excavation. Do you get the sense
41:53
Speaker 1: without revealing police information, do you get the sense they're
41:57
Speaker 1: going to be able to prove these are the three victims?
42:01
Speaker 1: I think they're going to do with the very best effort.
42:03
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, technology has come a long ways. Uh,
42:08
Speaker 1: you know, there was some bone marrow in some of
42:11
Speaker 1: these phones, and I anticipate they will be identified that
42:18
Speaker 1: it's going to be a long time. Joining us actually
42:21
Speaker 1: from the airport leaving is Tim Miller with Texas equ
42:24
Speaker 1: Research Detective Christine Menina, Patricia Sauners, and Jennifer Sakowski Crime
42:29
Speaker 1: online dot Com reporter. What can you tell me, um
42:35
Speaker 1: about the investigation? We know that center Field was linked
42:39
Speaker 1: to the property, and we know that he was connected
42:44
Speaker 1: to the family, So that's strong circumstantial evidence right there.
42:49
Speaker 1: But what else do we know about the investigation itself?
42:53
Speaker 1: Robert was charged with three cones of murder and originally
42:57
Speaker 1: being held on a three hundred and five thousand our bond,
43:01
Speaker 1: but I'm happy to report that his bail has been
43:03
Speaker 1: increased to five dred thousand dollars for each victim, making
43:08
Speaker 1: it one five millions. There were also notes that those
43:13
Speaker 1: charges may be upgraded to capital murder charges, which, as
43:18
Speaker 1: we know in the state of Texas, could mean the
43:21
Speaker 1: death penalty. We wait as justice and folds in this case.
43:26
Speaker 1: To Tim Miller, Texas Equisearch Detective Christine Menina, renowned New
43:32
Speaker 1: York psychologist, Pat Saunders, and Jennifer Sikowski Crime online dot
43:38
Speaker 1: Com reporter. I want to thank you, and I'm still
43:43
Speaker 1: thinking about this little boy nicknamed Baby Ray, who loved
43:48
Speaker 1: his dad so much that he would mimic his dad
43:53
Speaker 1: and try to ride horses and go trail riding. Whatever
43:57
Speaker 1: his dad did hated too. Yeah, we wait now for
44:03
Speaker 1: their bodies to be identified before the family and relatives
44:07
Speaker 1: can even begin planning a funeral to put this family
44:13
Speaker 1: to rest. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
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