Latest / WASD and Beyond / Episode 244: Our interview with IllegallySighted, AKA Jesse Anderson!

Transcript

Episode 244: Our interview with IllegallySighted, AKA Jesse Anderson! · WASD and Beyond

0:15
Yeah, I guess I, I never really got into RPGs until like until
0:20
they became a little bit more action because I just never got
0:23
into the whole turn based stuff all that much for the most part.
0:27
Like, you know, give me Fallout, give me Elder Scrolls Mass
0:32
Effect. Every day, all day, dude.
0:36
Like those are the RPGs that helped define me understanding
0:41
like that, that and Fable, right?
0:44
Like Fable was one of those goals that.
0:46
Looks so good. It does my only thing and we're
0:50
we're this is all staying in the goddamn show.
0:52
This is this is a good conversation to start off the
0:54
show with. But like the thing with the new
0:57
fable that I I'm conscientious about the fact that they need
1:03
time for this to cook. They don't want to release it
1:06
like Cyberpunk right where it comes out.
1:09
It's like, well, in five years this is going to be great.
1:12
It's like, I don't want it to be great in five years.
1:14
I want it to be great now and then I want it to be
1:16
exceptional, exceptional 5 years from now, we added.
1:21
I you know, though, I think though we're in a pretty good
1:24
spot because they've been in development for that for
1:27
forever. And just for that, you know,
1:30
when they showed this stuff at the Xbox event last week, I
1:32
think that they really clearly understood what made Fable, you
1:39
know, the Fable series, the original trilogy, especially one
1:42
and two. I think they really, you know,
1:44
with the, the freedom of going around the world and, you know,
1:50
I, I like that they kind of took the spin on being, you know,
1:53
it's not just pure good and evil.
1:54
You're not making a binary choice.
1:57
You know you have the every citizen will react to you
2:00
differently depending on their station.
2:02
The humor, the combat, the I'm. I just think they really
2:07
understood what made the first games cool.
2:11
And you know what? I I was really bummed out for a
2:15
hot minute when I found out. Like you weren't going to change
2:19
appearance given your like actions and your your choice.
2:25
But I wonder though. Makes sense.
2:29
I wonder if that's just like the good and evil thing because
2:32
like, remember, you could go all good and evil, but like some of
2:35
the demon doors, like you know, there is A1 where like I think
2:38
it was out by the beach somewhere where like you had to
2:39
become this big fat dude. You'd be good gluttony.
2:42
Yeah, OK. And then like, so I wonder if
2:45
like, your character can still change, it's just that you're
2:48
not just going to have their Halo and demon horns and stuff
2:51
like that. That, So that's an interesting
2:55
take then, because I think for me, one of the biggest things I
2:59
really enjoyed with the first game, like the original series,
3:04
not really three, but one and two for sure, was the fact that
3:10
it felt like there was a constant like weight on your
3:14
shoulders to do the right thing. Or if you wanted to be a
3:17
bastard, to do the wrong thing, 'cause like I always, I, I, I, I
3:22
remember playing it a couple times as a kid, one really good,
3:25
one bad. I didn't really care about like
3:28
middle of the road, even though I know if you go middle of the
3:30
road you can kind of reap the benefits from both.
3:34
But I loved like growing the horns of the Halo.
3:36
I loved that so much. And when I heard about this I
3:39
was like, OK, I get it, but like the beauty of Fable to me was
3:45
almost like the whimsical, cartoony feel you did have.
3:50
And they specifically mentioned fairy tale, so I think they're
3:54
still going for that. But I, I kind of like that it's
3:58
more nuanced because I don't like even Mass Effect.
4:00
I love Mass Effect, but I don't want to clearly see that.
4:04
It's like, oh I click the binary choice, good or evil, Paragon,
4:09
renegade. That's what Evan said.
4:12
Evan was like, I think this is going to help expand this system
4:16
because in doing in giving you this choice to go OK, like it's
4:22
non binary. Like we're talking like it's not
4:24
just black and white, It's not just good and evil.
4:26
It's you've really got to think about the choices you're making.
4:29
Because if you're not, if you go down one wrong path, people
4:34
remember that. Like that is what I'm excited
4:37
for this game. So great, great, great stuff
4:41
dude. You ready to have ready Q us in?
4:45
All right? Yep, let's do it.
4:48
All right. Welcome back everybody to
4:49
another episode of the WASD and Beyond podcast.
4:53
This week I got Jesse AKA illegally sighted on the show.
4:57
This has been a long time in the making and it's been my fault
5:00
that he has not been on sooner. I get quite busy.
5:05
I know you get quite busy. Brody gets busy.
5:07
So it's finally an awesome, awesome pleasure to have you on.
5:11
Please tell everybody like who you are, what you do and let's
5:14
just crack into this shit. Sure, no problem.
5:17
Thanks for inviting me. I've been looking forward to
5:19
this. So yeah, well, yeah, my name is
5:22
Jesse, and I've been running the illegally cited YouTube channel
5:25
for, well, since 2012. Believe it or not, I've been
5:29
doing this a while. But yeah, so you know, for my
5:33
day job, I well, actually let me back up.
5:37
I guess the probably the one of the most one of the more unique
5:40
things is that I am legally blind.
5:45
So I have some usable vision. I have enough vision to play a
5:51
lot of games. There are some games that I do
5:53
have trouble with, probably get in with that a little bit more
5:56
later. But so for my day job, I work as
6:01
an assistive technology specialist through the state and
6:04
I work with like high school and college students and I work with
6:08
assistive technology. And, you know, ultimately we're,
6:12
you know, we want to try to get people employed.
6:16
So figuring out what they need to get through, you know, their
6:19
high school, their college, and like I said, ultimately becoming
6:24
employed so they can do all the fun adult stuff like, you know,
6:29
getting a job and supporting your family and paying taxes and
6:32
all the stuff that, yeah, that. But outside of that, I
6:36
especially about, I would say 10 years ago or so, I kind of
6:40
started a secondary career, fell into the YouTube thing sort of
6:44
by accident. And then I also, I attended a
6:48
conference actually through work.
6:50
There's the C Sun conference that happens once a year out in
6:54
California. It's an assistive technology
6:56
conference. And one of the sessions that
7:01
they had was from a guy named Ian Hamilton.
7:06
And in the game accessibility sphere, Ian is the man.
7:10
Like he's just like he is the man.
7:12
And I attended one of his talks and sessions and then, you know,
7:17
we talked a little bit after and then we emailed and stuff.
7:20
And so I sort of, you know, after I got into the YouTube
7:23
thing, kind of fell into, you know, growing up as a kid, I
7:28
always want to like, oh man, I want to make video games when I
7:31
was a kid or I want to be in the, in the game industry.
7:33
And so I kind of developed this secondary career of, you know,
7:38
being a technology and game and XR accessibility advocate and
7:43
consultant. So I've worked with a few indie
7:46
developers, mobile developers, AAA developers, I'm part of a
7:52
couple of, you know, virtual and XR organizations that work with
7:58
making virtual and augmented reality accessible.
8:01
And so it's a really fun, really fun secondary career.
8:05
So I have both sides. I get to do the kind of like,
8:09
you know, hey, let's get people independent and working and then
8:14
they get to do the fun stuff on the side.
8:16
So it's kind of a good mix of both worlds.
8:19
And I'm glad I have my day job because of, you know, how
8:23
volatile the tech and game industry is lately.
8:26
Layoffs every other day. So I can have the best of both.
8:32
Dude, that's that. That's sick, man.
8:34
It's always the best part about this show and actually having
8:37
people on is to hear their journeys and like what really
8:42
fueled their fire to either get into the industry or to get into
8:47
content creation, right? Like WASD and beyond is we're
8:50
just a couple of dudes talking about video games.
8:53
The coolest thing, though? Well, yeah, but like the the
8:56
cool shit that you get, that you get to do and that you've put
9:00
yourself in a position to do is the, the, the advocacy for
9:04
accessibility in gaming, right? Like, yeah, like you, you have
9:08
videos of you just playing games and that's dope too.
9:12
Like obviously that's your channel, you you make what you
9:14
make, but it's sick to have somebody that we've been talking
9:20
with or that we've interacted with really be a part of that
9:24
push. What was it for you after going
9:27
to that conference? That really was just like, I'm
9:30
going to do this. Like I have to do this.
9:32
Like what did it feel like a have to or like, oh, I'll do
9:36
that. Well, no, it was just sort of a
9:38
kind of an opportunity that sort of grew over time.
9:42
So like I said, I've always been into video games.
9:46
I'm old. So I kind of grew up in the
9:48
Atari 2600 days, got really hooked on, you know, when the
9:52
NES came out, that was it, man. You know, it's like just I'm
9:56
hooked. But you know, and then when I
9:59
got to, you know, I started seeing, you know, in the DOS
10:06
days, you had all the classics, you know, your Doom and Quake.
10:10
And like literally right now, literally today, Duke Nukem 3D
10:15
is 30 years old. And man, I was, that's crazy.
10:20
But like when I, so when I started the YouTube channel, it
10:24
was a thing of it was just kind of everyone was sort of starting
10:29
to do it. I had a, you know, just some
10:31
little bit bit of technology and like, OK, I can try this.
10:34
My friend and I were dinging around with the Minecraft beta
10:38
back in the day and we were sharing our projects back and
10:41
forth. And that got too big because the
10:43
maps were huge. And so he created a server.
10:47
And then I'm like, oh, well, we OK, we, we can go play on the
10:50
server and, you know, help each other build and whatnot.
10:53
And I said, well, maybe I can just for the heck of it, throw
10:56
up a video of some of the Minecraft creations.
11:02
And then I kind of got into, I kind of took inspiration from
11:07
Giant Bomb and how they do their quick looks.
11:10
I don't really do. I just basically, you know, I, I
11:16
call them spotlights. I have different versions of
11:19
spotlights, you know, for low vision, spotlights are for games
11:22
that, you know, people can play with if they have some remaining
11:25
vision accessible. Spotlights are ones that like if
11:28
that are games or tools that are accessible to totally blind
11:32
players or users. And so I started doing that and
11:38
just kind of following the unscripted quick look because I
11:43
like that style. Like I don't really like the
11:45
Super formal you're reading from a script and like the level, the
11:48
the graphics on level 2 are really good and it just sounds
11:51
just, you know, so fake. And plus it's appeals to my lazy
11:56
side because I still don't know much about video editing, but
12:00
but when I, you know, when I attended that session at CSUN, I
12:07
just kind of started, you know, he recommended, we talked a
12:09
little bit and he would recommend my name for a couple
12:12
of, you know, if developers had some questions or like a mobile
12:18
developer might see my channel and reach out and say, hey, and
12:21
we're trying to make our game accessible to blind players.
12:25
Do you have any ideas or would you want to do some testing?
12:29
And so I started doing that and then, you know, it's just one of
12:33
those things, you know, between the YouTube channel and Twitter,
12:38
I owe a lot to those two platforms because I mean, I
12:42
literally got direct messaged. I think that's how we connected
12:46
via Twitter. But like, you know, I, I got to
12:51
go to Microsoft one time to, to where to consult on something.
12:58
And I, you know, I've done some remote stuff and some beta
13:01
testing. And so it's I, I, I haven't done
13:03
it a ton, but it is, it's a really cool, it's a really cool,
13:12
has some really cool opportunities over the past few
13:15
years. What would you say so far has
13:18
been like the sickest opportunity you've had?
13:20
Because it sounds like you're doing some pretty cool stuff.
13:23
There's some pretty cool. I think my favorite has to be
13:28
the Toby Doom Project, the Toby accessibility mod for the
13:32
original Doom. So there was a documentary
13:36
several years ago, I forget the name of the documentary, it's on
13:39
YouTube. But if you look up Toby OTT,
13:45
they did a documentary on him and he's a blind gamer and they
13:48
showed him how he loved the original Doom games, but because
13:53
he was blind, he kind of would just play with cheat codes on
13:56
because that's the only thing he could do.
13:58
He, you know, no clip and God Mode because it's like, well, I
14:02
don't know where to go. I just try to find the the
14:05
demons, the enemies and whatever.
14:08
And then I learned that a guy, Mr. Ellen D1, as he's known in
14:14
the Doom modding community, he had started this Toby
14:22
accessibility mod and I connected with him in around
14:26
2019, 2018-2019 I believe. And we do again, we just kind of
14:33
started talking and I gave him some ideas and asked him some
14:37
questions. And so now I'm just, you know,
14:41
kind of part of the testing team and we've gone from like what we
14:46
didn't think would be possible because this is still, you know,
14:48
even though it's Jeezy Doom, it's a 30 year old engine.
14:52
And like the stuff that it can do, like the stuff that him and
14:57
a couple other guys have gotten this thing to do.
15:00
I mean, like, it is really totally playable for blind
15:04
players now because there's like menu narration, there's a
15:08
compass system, There's like like a waypoint system.
15:12
It's freaking crazy, dude, and it supports all of the kind of
15:17
classic hidden Raven games now. So like Doom, Doom 2, Heretic
15:21
and Hexen. He's made some custom level
15:25
packs, especially with like Hexen because they're I Hexen is
15:29
one of those games that baffles me visually.
15:32
I can't imagine trying to play that nightmare blind just with
15:36
like the, you know, you're swapping between the different
15:38
levels and portals and you hit a switch to open something in a
15:42
whole different level. And but one of the coolest
15:45
things was I had ordered, it was kind of cool because I had
15:50
ordered something from the Romero store a couple years ago
15:55
and I so I ordered some doom swag And in the order form, he
16:02
had a little like a little edit box we could put in like a note
16:09
or a question form or whatever. And then when they shipped it
16:11
out, they would answer the question or whatever.
16:15
And so I, I just kind of gave a brief blurb about the Toby mod.
16:22
And so in addition to ordering the Doom swag, and I think it
16:25
was like one of those little autographed chainsaw, that
16:28
little plastic chainsaw. Toys.
16:31
He, yeah, he I almost missed it too, because I was digging
16:36
through the box and then I'm like, wait a minute, there's a
16:38
little envelope in here. And so there was this card and
16:42
it was just like this hand drawn card from John Frickin Romero.
16:47
And he like wrote that he there's a caca demon picture on
16:50
it and he's like, you know, thank you for making this.
16:54
I forget what it was, but it was like, thank you for making this
16:57
mod for for more people to be able to play or something.
17:01
And then signed it. I'm like, dude, that is the
17:03
coolest piece of swag. I got to frame that.
17:06
I hope it's framed. I I hope.
17:08
It isn't yet, but I have to do it soon.
17:10
It's literally on my tower right now.
17:12
My computer tower. Dude that, that is so bad ass.
17:18
Well, and it's cool to see like people like him also
17:21
recognizing, yes, you you had to tell him this was happening.
17:26
But sure, again, like Brody and I always say I'm even Evan,
17:29
we've always had on the show. It's like a lot of these
17:32
accessibility options, like when, when the time comes to
17:36
throw our hats in the ring for the Game awards, we get to that.
17:41
Like we First off, we always tell people go check out
17:44
illegally cited if you want more information on this, right?
17:46
Like we all thank you. Our artificial answer is there,
17:49
but we go, hey, like, I don't, I, I don't need these options.
17:57
So I don't know what to vote for because they're not applicable
18:00
to me, right? So right.
18:03
We never. Know how to attack.
18:06
The way that The Game Awards does it actually is they
18:08
actually have a specific separate jury, a panel for the
18:14
Innovation and Accessibility Award when 'cause they started
18:18
that in 2020 and I was actually invited to be a panel member of
18:22
that category. So they actually hire or they,
18:27
they invite, you know, actual people like, you know, from a
18:30
variety of different like disabilities, let's say someone
18:33
who maybe has a hearing impairment, mobility impairment,
18:36
visual impairment, and so that they get the best
18:38
representation. And so I don't judge any of the
18:43
the other categories, but I'm able to nominate for that
18:47
innovation and accessibility award.
18:49
So that's been kind of a cool thing.
18:51
So I'm, I'm glad that Jeff actually like respects that
18:54
category that way. Well, I was going to say it's,
18:58
it's because we've we've also maintained that it is an
19:02
important category because when things like that are taken
19:06
seriously and given a spotlight, everybody gets to play games.
19:12
That's like biggest thing with us.
19:14
And not just that is one of the things that, you know, we try to
19:17
bring up too is a couple things actually, is that, you know,
19:21
when you make, whether it's just accessible by design or if
19:26
you're adding accessibility features.
19:28
Yeah, you might have a feature that might help somebody who is
19:32
deaf or blind or something. But, you know, it's like the
19:36
curb cut effect. Well, you can use that in a
19:38
wheelchair or you can use it if you have a shopping cart or a
19:41
stroller. How many people have, how many
19:46
people who are not deaf use subtitles because they don't
19:49
want to wake their partner or their kid or they're in a
19:52
crowded exhibit hall and they can't hear?
19:56
How you know how many times you know anybody is going to be
20:00
disabled at some point permanently or temporarily.
20:03
You might break your arm. You know, we're all getting
20:06
older. You know, you'll lose your
20:08
hearing or some vision or something.
20:10
So you know, it's common like every anybody can be disabled at
20:15
any point, so. Jesse's how you're saying none
20:19
of you motherfuckers are safe. It's like it's oh.
20:22
No, no, no. But well, yeah, but but no, I
20:25
mean that. But that's The thing is because
20:27
a lot of people like, you know, the people who are, there's a
20:30
small like vocal minority who are like, this is stupid.
20:35
If you're doing that, then you're, you know, you're wasting
20:37
time and you're devoting, you know, you there should be more
20:40
devotion to graphics and whatever else.
20:42
And then they get all mad about it.
20:46
But you know, like I said, it can happen.
20:50
Well, I'm sure there's whole teams dedicated to that.
20:55
That would be my theory. Well, yes and no.
20:59
In AAA there are getting to be a few more teams.
21:03
I mean like when Naughty Dog did The Last of Us Part 2.
21:07
I played the original Last of Us on the PS3.
21:10
I beat it. I had trouble with a few areas.
21:13
But then when I like a few weeks before launch, I saw along with
21:18
everyone else, like they had this blog post of like 60
21:22
accessibility features and I played it.
21:23
I'm like, holy crap, this is amazing.
21:26
But I would not discount indie either because literally we had
21:30
the game accessibility Conference awards earlier today
21:35
and you know, they're like some of the earliest games that
21:39
really did a lot with accessibility in a lot of areas
21:43
are indie games solo developers. A couple of the the early ones
21:49
that I remember were like Eagle Island or Sequin Storm Skull
21:54
Girls were and those were very small, if not one person
21:59
development teams because you don't have to deal with like the
22:02
bureaucracy of getting it approved.
22:04
It's like, oh, if I want to prioritize this, I can.
22:07
Yeah, that's fucking awesome, dude.
22:10
Do you see it trending upwards or do you see it trending with
22:14
the current state of gaming? Because you and I can also
22:16
discuss how we feel about gaming, the current where we're
22:20
at. But do you see accessibility
22:22
trending upwards right now or do you see it stagnating?
22:25
Where do you see it at the moment?
22:27
Well, it's an interesting thing because on one hand, I think
22:31
like it is still gradually getting better.
22:34
There are more developers starting to think about
22:38
accessibility, like I said, whether that's adding features
22:42
or whether that's just implementing it like into the
22:45
core design of their game. But yet, you know, in a way like
22:49
this in 2025, for blind gamers specifically, I think there were
22:55
a lot fewer games that had that. Like in 2022-2023, there was
23:02
some amazing stuff with like Mortal Kombat 1 and Forza
23:05
Motorsport and some indie games. But like, you know, especially,
23:12
you know, whether it's like technology or even during my day
23:15
job because of all the nonsense that's going on in the world
23:19
right now with our current administration, you know, it's,
23:25
you can't see because what happens is, you know, you can't
23:28
see anything DEI related. And sometimes it's DEIA because
23:33
accessibility might get lumped into that.
23:37
And so it's like, you can do it, but you can't draw attention to
23:40
it or you can't say anything because God forbid you'll lose
23:43
funding or whatever. But I don't want to go too deep
23:48
into that road because I don't want to rant all night.
23:52
No rant as hard as you as you. Got no, no, no, no.
23:55
Everything is cool. But it's overall, it is
23:58
definitely getting better. Like one of the things he said
24:00
during the awards today was in the, you know, the Game
24:03
Accessibility Conference Awards, which is award show devoted just
24:08
to all kinds of accessibility categories.
24:10
There were a lot of companies that were that this was the
24:14
first time that they were nominated in a category or won a
24:17
category. So it is improving and I think
24:21
there are potentially some good things coming this year.
24:25
Which is much needed, like I said, when everyone can play to
24:29
me and again, I'm not disabled or have a disability.
24:34
I mean, I deafen my right ear, but like other than that, that's
24:38
all I got going on. But I've always been of the
24:41
notion like when everybody's able to play, that's when we all
24:44
kind of win, right? Like, I love, I forget who said
24:47
that, but I heard that when somebody was speaking about
24:50
accessibility and gaming, I was like, oh, that's great because
24:54
video games are the things that bring most people out of a
24:57
slump. This is this thing that I talk
25:00
about now with awesome people like yourself.
25:03
And Brody is one of those things that like pulled me out of a
25:07
slump as a child, like depression and all this other
25:11
things that I deal with and many others do.
25:13
And you know, this is what brought me up.
25:17
I was like, OK, cool. Like I got something to really
25:19
fight for, like the next adventure in a game.
25:22
It's like. Oh, for sure, I mean.
25:24
Nothing like it. I've met friends through gaming.
25:30
Gaming has kind of seen me through some hard times.
25:32
Like when I graduated college, I had a heck of a time finding
25:36
work. I was qualified, but just nobody
25:39
would hire me. I have a whole video about that
25:41
in one of my playlists. But like it, you know, it's just
25:44
a thing of like, it was hard to get hired.
25:46
And so, you know, I would play games to kind of, you know,
25:50
after I did all my job applications and such and kind
25:54
of help me get through it. And it's yeah, I mean, games
25:58
have been just a thing that can can help or connect people with.
26:03
So they're pretty cool. I love seeing like from the old,
26:07
like Game Spy days. I don't know if you were ever on
26:10
Game Spy or anything like that. I talk fondly of those days on
26:12
the show, like playing like Alien versus Predator 2 online
26:16
and things of that nature. That's where I met a lot of the
26:19
original fears, yes. Fear.
26:23
Oh my God, that is still Oh, the first FEAR is so good.
26:26
That is one of the few multiplayer games I've played
26:28
the absolute hell out of back in the day.
26:31
I love Fear. I, I, I, and it's a shame
26:34
because I don't think we're going to get another game quite
26:36
like Fear or another Fear. Same thing, I know, but the IP,
26:44
I, I forget who owns the IP at this point.
26:46
I don't know Microsoft, would it not I?
26:51
Don't know who owns well that's like I wish the the the rights
26:56
for no one lives forever is in like it is in owner hell.
27:01
No one really knows who owns that at the moment.
27:04
What's that? Warner Brothers.
27:08
Fuck. Warner Brothers owns Fear.
27:14
No. No, indeed, that's bad that.
27:19
Sucks. Oh, that yeah, I yeah, because I
27:23
think the first one I think had a yeah, I think the first one,
27:27
the first one had AC. That was when Sierra was a thing
27:31
because I think I remember the Sierra logo for the first one.
27:34
I. Believe you then.
27:35
I think, yeah, maybe toward the, maybe toward like Fear Three.
27:38
It might have been Warner Brothers.
27:43
Yeah, Monolith. So yeah, because they shut down
27:45
last year. Well, yeah, they put them in the
27:49
the shadows of Mordor and then the Call of Duty mines and then
27:52
they just so sad. And that sucks too, because they
27:58
own the fucking nemesis system that they're going to do nothing
28:01
with. Netflix now owns it.
28:04
Well, yeah, and they had the nemesis system, but like, they
28:07
had, like, blood No one lives forever show go fear.
28:12
I mean, man, they were just crushing it in the late 90s,
28:16
early 2000s. Oh man, blood and no one lives
28:19
for I remember playing No one lives forever.
28:21
Again, this goes back to my uncle Keith.
28:23
He had that big box. I remember playing it and I was
28:25
like wow this is crazy. That sucks.
28:29
That like, pissed me off. Dude.
28:32
Knowing that they have that that's the that's and that's the
28:36
state of gaming. That is like truly irking to me.
28:39
It's I remember when Microsoft bought everything and Brody and
28:43
I were like, right, could be good, right.
28:46
You know, there was like the trepidation there where it was
28:49
like rose tinted glasses. They're the Xbox guys.
28:52
And then Brody went, right? But it's still a business.
28:55
And I went. But they're the Xbox guys and.
28:59
It's like now we see. Yeah, you wanted it to be good.
29:04
But like, yeah, everything is. I get nervous whenever there's a
29:09
buyout because usually it's just they want some property or they
29:13
want to eliminate some competition.
29:15
And like, my thing is, it's just, I'm so tired.
29:19
That's why I love indie games and like I love, you know, I
29:23
don't really play a lot of the modern multiplayer shooters and
29:26
stuff like that. But all the boomer shooters, you
29:28
know, like dusk and a medieval and you know, all these there's
29:33
a there's a whole bunch of them. Like I follow, if you want to
29:37
follow, like a lot of the brutal the indie shooters as limb
29:40
Bratsky. He does a really good keeps us
29:44
up to date on the the boomer shooters, but like everything is
29:47
a live service and microtransaction all to hell.
29:51
And that just immediately turns me off.
29:54
It's like I don't even want to play it.
29:56
I mean, even there was a racing game that started out on mobile
30:02
I think, and that's I think you can get it on Windows 10.
30:04
Was it like the Asphalt games and one of the?
30:08
Recent ones like they. They had they have this mechanic
30:12
because it like I would kill for another burnout 3 takedown.
30:16
Like I don't want open worlds. I just want race tracks and
30:21
takedowns and like that. The asphalt game had it, but it
30:26
was like you can only play so many times because you have fuel
30:30
and you have to wait for timers and you buy these in currencies.
30:33
And I'm like screw this, but the mechanics.
30:37
Were there nickel and dime, dude?
30:39
Yeah. Well, that's the they put
30:40
everything behind the paywall now, right?
30:43
You remember when there was cheat codes IDDQD?
30:48
DLC and nice DLC was fucking that's what it it wasn't what it
30:56
was expansion packs like an expansion pack was yes, you're
31:01
buying it, but it was an extra like it's huge usually add.
31:06
On no look. At all Fallout 3 and Fallout
31:09
like New Vegas, even Fallout 4 to some sense even though it's
31:13
not my favorite and the bunch. But look at those expansion
31:16
packs dude, like. Well, even like the original,
31:20
even the original FEAR game, it had the before the fear 2 they
31:24
had, I think it was what was it one or two expansions?
31:26
There was what were they called? Like Perseus Mandate and I
31:33
forget what the other one, there was at least one or two
31:36
expansions. But yeah, like I have no problem
31:39
paying for a game and then paying for a substantial
31:43
download. But you know, or for a
31:46
substantial, like game content, but like nickel and diming and
31:51
the timers like I want, you know, if I bought the game, I
31:54
want to play the game when I want to play it.
31:57
Don't restrict me to say, well, you can only play three turns.
32:01
Yeah, you get to pay money. It's trash like so.
32:05
So it was Extract Point and the Perseus mandate.
32:09
Extraction point, that's what it was called, yeah.
32:12
Yep, extract point. Yeah, so that takes place like
32:15
right after the ending. But like, even if you look at
32:20
like Cyberpunk, like you can look at Cyberpunk and be like,
32:23
yeah, but look how that came out.
32:25
Well, that's a product of investment.
32:27
Those are the investors putting boot boot to neck on CDPR,
32:33
right? Like they went out, you delete
32:35
it again, It's it's releasing in the state, which sucks.
32:38
And I also do. It's unfortunate because that
32:41
kind of cuts the player base. That's a game that should have
32:44
never been marketed for the last generation Xbox, PlayStation,
32:48
anything. It should.
32:50
Have even. When that game originally came
32:53
out I had a computer that could barely run it and so I don't
32:57
even know if I picked it up right away.
32:58
I had to wait until I upgraded my rig in like 2023 before I
33:03
could even try to. Play it, Be thankful you did
33:06
that. No kidding.
33:08
Oh my God the rampocalypse right now.
33:10
I saw literally the other day that I saw a post on Twitter
33:13
that saying there is some people were selling the 5090 cards for
33:17
like $5800. I'm like, Gee, biz.
33:21
No, absolutely not. I would.
33:27
I hope Valve does the good guy thing here, which I know they
33:33
have it in them because it's Valve.
33:35
And I really hope that Steam Machine is priced well.
33:38
And I know it's difficult. People are like, well, you know,
33:41
how is it possible? It's possible.
33:42
It's Gabe fucking. Yeah.
33:45
Oh, they yeah, they've got more money than God right now, yes.
33:49
I mean, well, and that's the whole thing is like, you know, I
33:53
there's been all these stories recently about like the
33:56
PlayStation 6 and the new Xbox. I genuinely hope, like I
34:01
personally, I would love if the next generation got pushed back
34:05
to 2030 or so because I don't have any problem with the with
34:10
the hardware that we have now. I want the industry to get back
34:14
under control. Quit firing people, quit
34:18
releasing unfinished buggy games.
34:20
Let's optimize these things. Let's make games fun again.
34:25
You know games are supposed to be fun.
34:27
Let's design games to be games 1st and monetize second.
34:31
Maybe. I mean, all these things, I
34:34
just, I, I'm totally fine with another five years of this
34:38
generation. Well, look at Larian.
34:41
That's the perfect example of we made the game we wanted to make.
34:46
Expedition 33 is not my cup of tea, but look at the game they
34:50
made because they wanted to. It was so loved and that's what
34:54
I want to see more of We're. Missing things like bilatro.
35:00
Bilatro was a perfect example. I didn't I another great example
35:07
repo That's a fun yeah, it's it goes under the quote UN quote
35:11
friend slop, but it's a fun time.
35:14
Like, yeah, there are so many awesome games, Silksong that
35:20
that that's a couple people on a team that literally stopped the
35:25
online marketplace all around. Oh God, yeah, yeah, I tried Silk
35:30
Song and that was like, I I totally respect it for what it
35:33
is, but I am absolutely terrible at those games.
35:38
Oh, I hate Metroidvanius, but for some reason, dude, I'm
35:40
telling you, I, I loaded it up and I was like, yeah, it'll be
35:43
fun. I didn't play Hollow Knight.
35:46
I didn't play much of Hollow Knight, should I say?
35:48
And then I just would not stop playing Silk song.
35:50
Everyone's like, what are you doing?
35:51
Silk song? Like, you're like the Doom guy.
35:54
Why are you playing? You're like the only one you're
35:56
talking about is Half Life. Why are you playing the Silk
35:58
Song? I'm like, because I love this
35:59
little creature. I love this game like.
36:01
So that's a question. When that happens, yeah.
36:05
Are we, with this whole Steam, Steam Machine and everything you
36:11
think we're getting finally? Do you think we're getting any
36:13
new Half Life? You you just you just pissed off
36:17
Evan and Brody so bad by. Asking you that question.
36:21
I want to know that for dead, damn it.
36:24
So I think there's a couple things.
36:28
I think that Valve is at this point primarily focused on 822
36:34
games. That's HLX.
36:35
So whatever we've been dating people, Tyler Mcvicker, Gabe,
36:39
Gabe Follower, whoever else, that wonderful community and
36:44
those leaders of the community really there's so much there
36:48
that is leading us to go OK yes I think the RAM shortage, I
36:54
think the CPU hike and the GPU hikes have really dampered
37:00
Valves plan because. The.
37:03
Steam Machine was going to correlate with the release of
37:07
not really the book, but I think the book was going to drop.
37:11
I think it was all just going to drop like well, the I think the
37:14
book was supposed to drop last year, hinting towards the on the
37:19
price. So when the price of the Steam
37:21
Machine and all the hardware was going to be dropped, I think the
37:25
Raising the Bar Redux was going to be dropped.
37:27
Well, and I think it's so weird. It's so weird that like even
37:32
before this latest, you know, hiking of all these hiking of
37:36
all these prices, like the first time, I can really remember
37:41
where prices for your current generation go up.
37:46
You know, usually you early adopters, you pay the higher
37:50
price and then they release like a cheaper skew or something.
37:53
But like, now it's like, oh, the Switch one goes up in price and
37:57
then they, you know, the Xbox and the PlayStation like, good
38:00
Lord. It doesn't make sense, guys.
38:03
I've seen people buy us a Switch one for more money than they've
38:08
gotten a switch to which it's just crazy.
38:11
Yeah, I mean, I have I have a Series S and I have APS,
38:16
original PS-5 and I I really haven't played either one of
38:20
them very much because I've just kind of invested in my PC and,
38:25
you know, everything Microsoft is coming to Windows.
38:28
And yeah, I wish some of the Sony stuff would come more day
38:32
and date. I wish they weren't delayed as
38:34
much. But even Sony's realizes like,
38:37
you know, we maybe you might want to put some stuff out on
38:39
the computer because. You have to more.
38:44
People can play it. You have to in this day and age,
38:47
like, yeah, everything is on Steam.
38:50
Like I don't care what Tim Sweeney and all them have to
38:53
say. I really, I really don't.
38:55
You're fucking old man yelling at clouds.
38:57
Get with the program drop. No one wants this many
39:00
launchers. We don't.
39:03
We want Steam. It works well.
39:06
It's not bloatware. I, I mean, I, I do 95% of my
39:11
gaming on the PC on Steam, but like I, I still do want a little
39:14
bit of competition because you know when.
39:17
So it's not a monopoly of sorts. Yeah, I well, yeah.
39:19
When the, when the people, when the people that are currently
39:22
doing the good thing at Valve, you know, if they retire or
39:25
whatnot, you know what'll happen to Steam in the future.
39:28
So you want to have backup options.
39:30
But yeah, Steam is just so much better.
39:32
Like I, I, I had to try a game last weekend to check out its
39:36
accessibility and all the oh God, like I had to download that
39:41
2X KO and their riot launcher. And then there's this like all
39:47
this kernel level anti cheat bullshit.
39:51
And so I tried it and then I just uninstalled it because I'm
39:54
like, I don't want like I remember there was I think it
39:57
was a Ubisoft game where they're like they had some anti cheat
40:00
thing and you couldn't even play single player without having
40:04
this kernel level anti cheat on. And when I was reading the thing
40:07
about it, it was like, oh, well, you have to go into Windows and
40:12
disable this kernel level security.
40:14
I said fuck you. I'm not doing that because I
40:17
don't want to compromise my system security.
40:20
And so I didn't end up playing that game.
40:23
I think it was the. Crew Ballerfest, there was
40:26
another game that was requiring that as well, though.
40:28
That and like secure boot is like a really big thing right
40:31
now with some games that are really saying like, I know the
40:34
latest one was, Oh my God, High Guard.
40:37
Is that what it? Yeah, that, that's what.
40:39
It's called. Oh yeah, I have that installed.
40:44
No or no? No.
40:45
I was thinking of high tail. But I do want to try high tail.
40:49
I yeah, I very briefly tried it. Yeah.
40:51
I'm, I, I hate the high, I hate the, I don't like the hate that
40:58
high guard is getting, but it's it I, I can tell just by the
41:02
gameplay footage like it's a game that I would struggle with
41:04
visually. And so I'm just like, OK, that's
41:07
probably not going to be for me, but I had some ideas.
41:13
I can tell you what most of my friends have said.
41:16
They said it is unoptimized. It is a lot of ideas.
41:24
Yeah, I mean, I like the idea of like, you know, shooting and
41:28
riding, you know, you like, what is it like you're riding a wolf
41:30
into combat or something like that's kind.
41:33
Of like a horse, a wolf, a bear. That's a couple different
41:35
mouths. Yeah.
41:37
But I, I enjoyed that. But everything else, I'm like,
41:41
this just feels like they were like, well, what can we do?
41:43
And it's a bummer because, again, this is the people who
41:45
brought us Titanfall. And it's like, no, we just,
41:49
that's what we want. We want that, you know, to to
41:55
circle back. I do think this is the year of
41:58
half life. I really do.
42:00
It could be. Why would you not release it
42:04
with the Steam Machine if you? Want I think.
42:07
You know. The other thing is, is like
42:09
there was that documentary from No Clip.
42:11
What was it last year, the year before?
42:14
And I thought that was really interesting because they showed
42:16
a lot of like the lost footage of like Half Life 2 and
42:19
everything. And Gabe and a couple other
42:22
people were like, yeah, I think we were a little bit too
42:26
precious about like the lore and like, oh, well, we have to make
42:29
sure that we have to make sure that the new game offers
42:35
something that's never been done before, like whether it's
42:38
hardware or some graphic or physics effect or whatever.
42:42
And I think they've kind of just said, you know, people just want
42:44
it. As long as it's a good game, as
42:46
long as it's well made, maybe there's a well, I think they're
42:49
a little bit more open to, you know, I, I really hope they do
42:54
make games again because I, like I said, I miss the valve that
43:00
made first person shooters Half Life 1 and 2, but I can't tell
43:04
you how much time I played Left 4 Dead one and two.
43:07
I freaking love those games. I love I love the Left 4 Dead
43:11
series and it's a shame that the like follow-ups to them like
43:17
Back for Blood and. I tried it.
43:19
Pray. No, not pray.
43:22
What was it called? The Monster 1.
43:27
Oh, evolve. Oh my Evolve.
43:30
Oh my God, those games. I was like.
43:34
There were parts of Back for Blood that I like, but like I
43:37
didn't like the the whole shoehorning of cards into
43:40
everything and it just something felt off with the combat or like
43:46
just something with the way the, I don't know, like Valve just
43:49
has this touch like for the gameplay, for the like the level
43:53
design. There's just something that Left
43:56
4 Dead had that these other ones like I did.
44:00
To be fair, I really did get into the first Vermontide.
44:03
I really liked Warhammer End Times Vermontide.
44:07
That was the closest that came to being like a Left 4 Dead 2
44:10
that I like or Left 4 Dead that I liked.
44:13
Love me some Warhammer man. I have spent too much money on
44:18
that though, so it's not good. It's not a good hobby.
44:23
Thank you Games Workshop. Great games, though, great
44:26
games. Space Marine 2 absolute hit wish
44:30
I'm happy about that, but no man, like I left for dead.
44:35
I I can still remember loading that for the first time and at
44:38
that point I didn't have I didn't have my computer.
44:41
I remember something I I know what I did.
44:43
I'm not going to say on the show what I did, but.
44:45
Yeah, I mean, my, my friend and I, we, yeah, my, I mean my
44:52
friend and I, we were, I was living, I was living in another
44:58
state at the time. And so we had connect and we
45:00
played the heck out of the first Left for Dead and then Left for
45:03
Dead 2. Like, I love the way they did
45:05
Left for Dead 2 because they put the original campaigns in, but I
45:09
just I love the melee weapons that they added into the sequel.
45:12
The fire axe is just so good. The combat shotgun, it's just,
45:17
oh, it's I, I love those games. Well, everything evolves upon
45:22
itself, and that's the thing that Valve does.
45:25
And like, what my favorite quote was, you know, that Gabe was
45:29
saying like, hey, like basically to put it into my own words, but
45:33
also from him was that they're not scared because there's no
45:37
shortage of, you know, of things they can do nowadays.
45:41
They're like, we can totally innovate now.
45:43
There's not a shortage of what we can't do, so let's do it.
45:49
No, dude, that's God. I miss left for dead.
45:51
I would love another left for dead.
45:53
I would kill for not left for dead.
45:54
I know, I know you. Know what Team Fortress needs to
45:57
be fixed. I know.
45:57
It's like AI know I I know, I know it's just another.
46:01
Object. I love that.
46:02
But there was something so special.
46:03
I love the idea, but I could just never get into it.
46:05
I never got into that. I never got into I, I never got
46:08
into Counter Strike. Did you try Deadlock?
46:13
No, I have not tried Deadlock. That's more realistic shooter
46:16
though, isn't it? No, no, no, no, no.
46:19
You do you like Mobas? I really have not really I I
46:25
like. So I'm quite more into like I
46:27
said, especially for like multiplayer.
46:29
I like more of the like old school like Quake 3 Arena,
46:33
Unreal Tournament, that kind of thing.
46:36
That's those are my favorite games too.
46:38
Yeah. But you should try Deadlock.
46:44
I think you'll like it because it's a first, it's a, it's third
46:47
person like MOBA, like you're right on the ground shooting and
46:53
like capturing shit and I'm not good at it at all.
46:57
Yeah, for me, for me, I think like what a lot of the
47:01
multiplayer games, it depends on the IT depends on the game, I
47:04
suppose. But like I generally tend to
47:07
prefer more free for all versus team based games.
47:10
Because for me, depending on, you know, it's like by the time
47:14
I figure out if somebody is a friend or foe, I don't want to
47:17
be the guy that's team killing. And so, you know, it's like I, I
47:21
don't want to, you know, accidentally fight around my own
47:23
teammates, but by the time I figure out if it's a friend or
47:27
foe, I'm dead. So I like the more, you know,
47:31
just classic arena shooters, if it moves, shoot it.
47:34
Shoot it like Quake, you know, you could just rocket jump and
47:37
kill everybody. Doesn't matter.
47:39
Yeah, my favorite favorite, favorite thing about those
47:42
games. All right, dude.
47:45
Sounds. Good.
47:46
Let's crack into that last question of mine.
47:49
Not really a question. I just really want you to just,
47:52
again, just let everyone know who you are and explain really
47:56
why accessibility is as important as it is in gaming and
48:00
why people should consider it. You know what I mean?
48:03
Like, does that make sense? I try to make sense, but
48:06
sometimes I suck with that. No, no problem.
48:09
Well, like I said, yeah. I mean, my name is Jesse and I
48:15
run the illegally cited YouTube channel.
48:18
Just look up Illegally Cited and it's SIGHTED.
48:21
Illegally cited kind of A twist on the whole legally blind term,
48:26
which is a if you know, it's something in itself.
48:28
But you can also go to illegallysighted.com where I
48:32
have a list of some of my other projects and podcast appearances
48:36
and and different projects that I've been working on.
48:39
I'm sure this podcast will go up there at some point.
48:43
But as far, yeah, I mean, as far as accessibility goes, like you
48:47
said, you know, it's kind of the saying of when when we all play,
48:51
or I forgetting the saying now, like when we all play, we all
48:55
win. But it's like, you know, anyone
48:58
can become disabled at any point, like temporarily or
49:02
permanently. And you know, a lot of the
49:05
features that you may not even consider accessibility features,
49:09
everybody remaps their controls to some degree in a game.
49:14
Everybody, you know, a lot of, you know, sighted players will
49:17
use subtitles for whatever reason and, you know, adjusting
49:22
the mouse sensitivity or, you know, any number of things.
49:28
You could call them accessibility to some point, to
49:31
some degree. And you know, a lot of the
49:34
times, especially if you just integrate accessibility into the
49:40
core design of your game or your product, yeah, it might have the
49:47
benefit of helping somebody with a disability, but it'll also
49:51
help everybody else, too. It just makes the product better
49:56
for everybody. Hell yeah, dude.
50:00
Now thanks for hopping on, man. This is a conversation I've been
50:03
wanting to have with you for a long time and I know it took too
50:07
long to get you on, but I'm glad we got you on as the our first
50:11
interview of the year on WASD and beyond.
50:13
So that's just fucking awesome, dude.
50:16
Again, thank you everybody. Please, please, please, all
50:19
links for Jesse will be down below.
50:22
Go support him always supported us.
50:25
We love supporting him as well. Links down below.
50:29
Please check out the sponsors of the show.
50:31
They're why we get to do we do so it's final boss stock Longy.
50:35
Check out the rest of the shows on the network that's WSD and
50:38
beyond. It came from screen box and roll
50:40
for deception. e-mail us if you have any questions about this
50:44
episode or if you want, you should definitely hit Jesse up
50:47
on Twitter again. That link will be down below or
50:50
go to the illegally cited website.
50:53
Check out the YouTube page and everything is in the bio Go
50:57
there. Thank you all for listening
50:59
until next week. Take it easy guys.
51:02
Thank you.