Latest / Just Heal with Dr Jay / The Weight of Leadership & Finding Joy Again with Cycelia Matthews

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The Weight of Leadership & Finding Joy Again with Cycelia Matthews · Just Heal with Dr Jay

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Just Hell with Doctor J, a production of
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  Speaker 1: The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: another episode of Just Heal with Doctor J. And I
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  Speaker 1: am your host, Doctor J. Listen, y'all know I love
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  Speaker 1: to sit down and have these deep, insightful and impactful
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  Speaker 1: conversation with both men and women and to talk about healing.
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  Speaker 1: This next young lady that we are bringing to the
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  Speaker 1: cowsh today. Uh. Some of you may know her as
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  Speaker 1: a prophetess. Some may know her as a pastor. Because
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  Speaker 1: I'm she's from Mississippi, so she she ain't gonna trip
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  Speaker 1: about me saying this that this is this negro can preach.
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that this negro can preach. That's what
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  Speaker 1: they will say in the South. You know what I mean.
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  Speaker 1: But I want to welcome to the healing community pastor propheties,
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  Speaker 1: Miss Cecilia Matthews. How you doing good?
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing good.
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  Speaker 1: Listen today, She's gonna be a pastor, be a prophety.
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  Speaker 1: She's gonna be Cecilia today because we're gonna get to
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  Speaker 1: know her. Uh. I came to know you through social
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  Speaker 1: media and through I don't know how I started following
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  Speaker 1: you and and watching your videos, and I mean you
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  Speaker 1: preach them down a storm, you know, I mean you
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  Speaker 1: preaching these folks free and and and and started following
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  Speaker 1: your ministry and seeing what God is doing through you.
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  Speaker 1: But also as I'm following people, I'm very careful who
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  Speaker 1: I follow. I often can can see people beyond how
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  Speaker 1: they post and and and kind of you know, did
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  Speaker 1: some some research into your story, not knowing much, and
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  Speaker 1: so I'm like, you know what, she is a woman
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  Speaker 1: that I believe have a voice in this season, in
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  Speaker 1: this time. But also I think that you have a
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  Speaker 1: voice that can heal, that speaks to where a lot
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  Speaker 1: of when in all right now as a navigating transition.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so that's pretty much my space. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: you definitely hit the nail on the head.
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  Speaker 1: So I mean, if you could just kind of, you know,
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  Speaker 1: talk to the audience, how long have you been preaching
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  Speaker 1: this year?
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  Speaker 2: In November, it'll be twenty two years.
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  Speaker 1: Twenty two years.
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  Speaker 2: You won't look at all, I know all of fifteenth.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you guys for that one. But I've been preaching
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  Speaker 2: for twenty It'll be twenty two years.
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  Speaker 1: Twenty two years. Wow, Mama went in middle of episode
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  Speaker 1: baby Jesus, and don't take this out tjac So you've
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  Speaker 1: been preaching twenty two years, yes, in ministry, and at
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  Speaker 1: one time you were a pastor.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I was a pastor for thirteen years, pastor.
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  Speaker 1: For thirteen years. And were you a pastor in your marriage?
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  Speaker 2: And yes, so Mike's husband and I we both pastor
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  Speaker 2: is actually one and well they were into different states,
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  Speaker 2: but yeah, we actually had two ministries. So for thirteen years,
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  Speaker 2: that's what I did. I served the people, serve the.
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  Speaker 1: People certain people. Now, so you already know how my
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  Speaker 1: platform get down is. We we like to have in
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  Speaker 1: depth conversation. And today what I want people to walk
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  Speaker 1: away is knowing the woman.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk.
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  Speaker 1: We know the preacher, but the woman that you grew
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  Speaker 1: up in Mississippi. Yes, right, I grew up in Mississippi
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  Speaker 1: as well. I think you're more south and west point
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  Speaker 1: and I grew up in the north. And Mississippi is
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  Speaker 1: a very interesting place.
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  Speaker 2: It's dope though. I love it. Yeah, now I love
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  Speaker 2: Mississippi really, Yes, I actually want to go back sometimes
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  Speaker 2: like I'm in Houston. But I love the hospitality, I
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  Speaker 2: love the family field. It's just you know, you know,
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  Speaker 2: your neighbors, you know, the people around you, and I
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  Speaker 2: love people, so I enjoy that. But in Houston it's
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  Speaker 2: kind of so everybody separated as to each It's.
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  Speaker 1: A city call being people down there. I lived there
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  Speaker 1: for thirteen years.
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  Speaker 2: I've been there for six.
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  Speaker 1: So okay, but you you were more you in uh Crock,
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  Speaker 1: I mean not Conrod, you in Dallas.
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  Speaker 2: So it's like it's like the Mississippi.
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  Speaker 1: It's like it is kind of like Mississippi. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of like on the outskirts. Okay, So tell
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  Speaker 1: us about your journey of becoming Like when when did
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  Speaker 1: you know that God was calling you?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so pretty cool. Had taken some paths in college.
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  Speaker 2: I went to college.
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  Speaker 1: No, let's talk, were not gonna skip over that.
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  Speaker 2: What going to college?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you right to a path.
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  Speaker 2: I went to the University of Other miss I went
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  Speaker 2: to you as in Okay, Okay, so then do too
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  Speaker 2: well there I party my way out of school. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so that's another part of the store. So that nice
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  Speaker 2: little GPA, it was, it was, it is what it is.
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  Speaker 2: But that was the last guy had a plan. So
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  Speaker 2: I'm grateful he had a plan because I didn't have one.
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  Speaker 2: But so when I was in college, I actually did
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  Speaker 2: some stuff that I was supposed to. I had an abortion,
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  Speaker 2: and my abortion actually caused me to come home, and
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  Speaker 2: when I got back home, the Lord was dealing with
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  Speaker 2: me in that capacity, in that space, and I just
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  Speaker 2: gave my life to God in that moment.
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  Speaker 1: So I will slow down.
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  Speaker 2: You want me to slow.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know we're gonna slow down today. I'm gonna
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  Speaker 1: slow down to day because the amount of women that
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  Speaker 1: I've worked with in therapy that are married, You'll be
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  Speaker 1: surprised that the women that I work with that are
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  Speaker 1: married or in a relationship, they have children, and they're
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  Speaker 1: still held by the decision that they made in one
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  Speaker 1: season of their lives. They had to have an abortion.
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  Speaker 2: For sure.
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  Speaker 1: What was that like for you to navigate that as
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  Speaker 1: a young adult, And I'm sure as someone who was
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  Speaker 1: also in the church at the time. Were you in
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  Speaker 1: church at the time?
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  Speaker 2: In church, my dad was a pastor, so but I
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  Speaker 2: wasn't currently at my dad's church, but I was at
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  Speaker 2: I was ministry and ministry, so during that time frame,
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  Speaker 2: it's definitely a difficult time, definitely a hard seasoned heart space.
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  Speaker 2: I didn' navigate it well. When it first happened, I
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  Speaker 2: actually tried to commit suicide. So I tried to take
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  Speaker 2: my own life because I just was like, God, there's
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  Speaker 2: no way you're going to forgive me after all the
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  Speaker 2: things that I've done, and actually was sitting at an
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  Speaker 2: intersection just waiting on some something, someone something to try
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  Speaker 2: to come and take my life. And it was during
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  Speaker 2: that time frame that God spoke to me. The words
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  Speaker 2: that actually I live by now is what he spoke
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  Speaker 2: to me in that car when I was trying to
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  Speaker 2: commit suicide, and he told me, he said that I
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  Speaker 2: would never leave you, know all, I forsake you, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm screaming, I'm crying out to God. I'm like, God,
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  Speaker 2: there's no way you're gonna forgive me for what I did.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure sure, Like that's a life. You told us
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  Speaker 2: not to take life, not to murder, that's not murder.
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  Speaker 2: And because I actually saw the heartbeat of my child,
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  Speaker 2: I went to the abortion clinic and that was like
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  Speaker 2: your first when you go the first time they actually
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  Speaker 2: allow you to, you know, go see on this on
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  Speaker 2: the graund you go see the baby. So that was
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  Speaker 2: the last time I saw my child. My born child.
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  Speaker 2: I made the decision because I was trying to keep
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  Speaker 2: my reputation. I was a preacher's kid. I was highly
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  Speaker 2: liked in my high school. People loved me. I was
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  Speaker 2: super popular, and they just wondn't expect that from me.
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  Speaker 2: They wouldn't expect that lifestyle from me. So I actually
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  Speaker 2: took some once I did it. I was, like I said,
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  Speaker 2: I was sitting at the intersection way and the Diana
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  Speaker 2: Lord said to me, he said, never means never, and
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  Speaker 2: that was the words that stuck with me. He said,
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  Speaker 2: never miss never. Through the good times, I'm with you,
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  Speaker 2: through the bad times, on with you.
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  Speaker 1: What what did you say to a woman that may
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  Speaker 1: still feel the weight and the guilt of her decision,
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  Speaker 1: Because this is not about pro life pro choice. This
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  Speaker 1: is about the woman's decision and when she's made that
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  Speaker 1: decision for whatever reason, I'm sure that there's a way
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  Speaker 1: of a guilt that rests on her shoulders. What would
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  Speaker 1: you say to that woman that still may be navigating
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  Speaker 1: that space.
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  Speaker 2: I would say to her, because I know this for
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  Speaker 2: a fact that you still hear babies crying at nighttime.
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  Speaker 2: I would hear babies crying, and I didn't want to
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  Speaker 2: forgive myself because I just want I didn't tell anybody,
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  Speaker 2: so I really dealt with myself, between me and my friend.
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  Speaker 2: That actually took me to the actual center to get
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  Speaker 2: it done. But I would tell her that there's a
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  Speaker 2: God that forgives and he heals your heart. There's the
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  Speaker 2: only one saying that he wants forgive, but he forgives,
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  Speaker 2: and I do believe that I have taken. It took
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  Speaker 2: some time. It took months for me to kind of
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  Speaker 2: get to the place where I was even able to
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  Speaker 2: talk about it, and I went from that. I made
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  Speaker 2: a decision in that car. I told God, I said,
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  Speaker 2: if you save my life, I'll go get lives. And
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  Speaker 2: so that's really where my ministry came from. For that
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  Speaker 2: one life I've gone, you know, after thousands and so
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  Speaker 2: I've been just trying to save lives this whole entire time.
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  Speaker 1: Do you feel in some way that that's your life line?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, most definitely.
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  Speaker 1: Is that what keep you going?
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  Speaker 2: It keeps me going. She I believe it was a girl.
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  Speaker 2: I saw the heartbeat, and you know, based on heartbeats,
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  Speaker 2: you know they say that you know it's so high solo,
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  Speaker 2: it's a boy or girl I really felt like it
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  Speaker 2: was a girl, and it's one of the reasons why
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  Speaker 2: I do ten Girl Ministry. I'm definitely after the heart
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  Speaker 2: of the young girl. I was a teen at the time,
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  Speaker 2: and so I want to go back and just heal
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  Speaker 2: other young ladies that are dealing with it. But it's
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  Speaker 2: definitely my drawing force. I took a time. I went
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  Speaker 2: to what they call postal boarding. You may notice in
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  Speaker 2: your space postal Bord of Healing Counseling, post a Border Counseling.
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  Speaker 2: And so they actually made us name the baby, and
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  Speaker 2: then they also took us to the graveyard for us
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  Speaker 2: to actually bury a baby. And so during that process,
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  Speaker 2: that process was healing for me. It was healing for me.
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  Speaker 2: I allowed me to become one with what I had
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  Speaker 2: really done and to actually grieve the loss and then
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  Speaker 2: release the loss. But it's still itched in my heart
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  Speaker 2: that there are thousands of more women, young ladies that
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  Speaker 2: need salvation and just need help and need to be
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  Speaker 2: able to know that God forgives them, but also to
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  Speaker 2: know that He's there to He's in the situation with them.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that process of naming the baby, did you give
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  Speaker 1: your child name Diamond?
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  Speaker 2: Alexandria. I named a diamond Alexander. Don't ask me why
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  Speaker 2: I named a Diater, but I just wanted to. It
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  Speaker 2: was a name that was in my heart for my
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  Speaker 2: first child. And so I believe like even I celebrated birthdays,
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  Speaker 2: I celebrated around them. What time I would have figured
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  Speaker 2: would have been our birthday, I would celebrate that just
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  Speaker 2: because I wanted to remind myself to not take that
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  Speaker 2: path again, you know, because I know the beauty of life.
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  Speaker 2: And if I don't know what she could have been,
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  Speaker 2: my kids could have had an older sister, or you know,
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  Speaker 2: I could have had a child that was in the
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  Speaker 2: medical field. I don't know. I didn't get that opportunity,
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  Speaker 2: and I didn't give her that opportunity, and so it
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  Speaker 2: was heart wrenching to even consider. But now just being
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  Speaker 2: on the other side, I know for a fact that
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  Speaker 2: when I stand in a pool pit, I stand there
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  Speaker 2: looking for you know, hey, there's somebody out there that's
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  Speaker 2: even considering it, or considering having an abortion, or someone
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  Speaker 2: that's even considering choosing life, and so I just want
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  Speaker 2: to make sure that that woman chooses life, because those
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  Speaker 2: lives are valuable.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, what I love about this conversation is is
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  Speaker 1: you are removing the shame for sure. I was talking
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  Speaker 1: with Bishop Borders before you, and we were just talking
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  Speaker 1: about the space the church is in right now, the
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  Speaker 1: climate of church. It's not a very psychological safe space.
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  Speaker 1: I think there's much harm being done, and I don't
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  Speaker 1: think it's necessarily intentional. But we don't we don't do
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  Speaker 1: a really good job restoring people.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's that's been at the top of my list
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  Speaker 2: though the last month. I was like, we don't live
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  Speaker 2: the Bible. We read it, we preach it, we pray it,
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  Speaker 2: but we're not good doers of the word. And he said,
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  Speaker 2: to go restore such a one. He's given us all
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  Speaker 2: of the commandments on how to go to your brother,
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  Speaker 2: how to you know, how to cover them. But we're
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  Speaker 2: all on the same team, We're all a part of
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  Speaker 2: the same body. And I just believed that I wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: go just cut my fingers off just because they weren't
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  Speaker 2: doing what I wanted them to do. I would make
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  Speaker 2: sure I nurtured them, make sure I got them back
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  Speaker 2: in alignment. I would get the treatment that was necessary,
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  Speaker 2: the physical therapy to line it back up again. But
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  Speaker 2: we don't do a good job of it of covering
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  Speaker 2: those that are in.
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  Speaker 1: The Bible, not at all. How were you restored after
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  Speaker 1: all of that?
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  Speaker 2: Honestly, truthfully, I had a really good support system. I
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  Speaker 2: actually took time to just kind of give myself space
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  Speaker 2: to deal with my frustrations and then my disappointment because
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  Speaker 2: I knew I had disappointed my father and I was like,
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  Speaker 2: oh my God, like you know, And the first time
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  Speaker 2: that anybody ever heard it was when I testified about it.
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  Speaker 2: So the way that I heal, and I think I've
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  Speaker 2: done this throughout my life is that I talk about it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm the type of person I'm going to preach about it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm the most transparent, vulnerable person you'll ever meet, So
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  Speaker 2: I talk about it. So my very first time talking
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  Speaker 2: about it, I did an alter call after it was over,
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  Speaker 2: and hundreds of young people and adults came up there
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  Speaker 2: and said I either had an abortion or they've even
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  Speaker 2: it was men that were saying, hey, I was the
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  Speaker 2: one that gave it the money to go have the abortion.
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  Speaker 2: And so it was a hard, hard space, but it
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  Speaker 2: was healing in the moment that I knew then when
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  Speaker 2: I looked out I wasn't by myself, and truthfully, honestly,
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  Speaker 2: I don't hope she wouldn't mind me saying this, But
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  Speaker 2: inside of that crowd, I was my sister and I
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  Speaker 2: did not know that she had done the same thing.
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  Speaker 2: We are tight like glue, and I did not know.
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  Speaker 2: And so yeah, so that was healing from me because
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  Speaker 2: she came out in the hallway and she was telling
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  Speaker 2: me I did the same thing. But God has healed
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  Speaker 2: her as well. I was like, how is it that
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  Speaker 2: we're so secretive in our community that this is my
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  Speaker 2: sister in my house or she's course off at college
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  Speaker 2: but I was off at college and so going different paths.
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  Speaker 2: But we're family, blood family, and we haven't even communicated
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  Speaker 2: about it, and so it just it broke me that
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  Speaker 2: I didn't really have to go through it by myself
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  Speaker 2: because when I was going through it, I didn't want
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  Speaker 2: to tell anybody because I don't want to disappoint anybody.
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  Speaker 1: What is that, Cecilia, I mean, what do you think
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  Speaker 1: about that? What is that? When it comes to us
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  Speaker 1: as a people, and particularly us in church, why are
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  Speaker 1: we so secretive?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's because of perfection. We have been taught
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  Speaker 2: to be perfect and bah based based on with the
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  Speaker 2: laws and we've been given dow shall not. But I
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  Speaker 2: tell people all the time, we miss all of the
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  Speaker 2: dow share, all the great things that we can explore
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  Speaker 2: and become. But we're that way because we don't want
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  Speaker 2: to be judged. We don't want people to judge the
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  Speaker 2: way that we the way we look, the way we talk,
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  Speaker 2: the things that we have done. But I feel like
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  Speaker 2: people are more I don't know. I feel like if
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  Speaker 2: the more honest you are, the more healing can happen.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I think you know. One of the things
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  Speaker 1: that comes in my mind is is that I think
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  Speaker 1: you know and you hear this often you're only a
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  Speaker 1: saying as your secrets and.
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  Speaker 2: That's good.
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  Speaker 1: When when when when I think about how so many believers,
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  Speaker 1: even non believers, have lived in such secrecy, having to
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  Speaker 1: endure painful moments and painful experience without someone to bear
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  Speaker 1: witness to it or even to coregulate. Is what we
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  Speaker 1: do in a therapeutic space, to corregulate in that space
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  Speaker 1: that my brother, my sister, you're not alone. And I
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  Speaker 1: think if we can move away from this performative state.
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  Speaker 1: And this is the issue that I have with religion,
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  Speaker 1: not faith with religion, is that it becomes this duty
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  Speaker 1: that I have to check off this box. Well, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not drinking, I'm not smoking, I'm not sleeping around, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not doing this. But are you safe for the man
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  Speaker 1: of the woman that you sit by, that you talk to.
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  Speaker 1: Are you safe? And we're so busy trying to be
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  Speaker 1: perfect and trying to be performative that we forget to
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  Speaker 1: be humans. And I'm not talking about humans like falling
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  Speaker 1: in sin, but human to say hey, I've been there.
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  Speaker 1: I believe that if we had more people, which is
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  Speaker 1: why I can appreciate your ministry, your ministry of vulnerability,
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  Speaker 1: ministry of transparency, people got to know that there's somebody
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  Speaker 1: else who's going through it and come out to the
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  Speaker 1: other side.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, that's what.
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  Speaker 1: Sets people free.
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  Speaker 2: For sure.
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  Speaker 1: It's not I've gotten to the mouth and top and listen.
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  Speaker 1: You better hope you can get here too.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, I love that. I love the whole
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: thought and concept to that, because I'm when I say vulnerability,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I tell people you're gonna miss the good part of
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: my testimony. I don't let people tell it. I don't
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: want to tell it myself because there are parts where
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I probably wore a Scarlett letter that a I did
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of different things. So it's like, but I
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: want to make sure that people understand that even behind
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the pulpit I was having when I was struggling in
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you know, this last season of my life, I really
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: struggled a lot behind the scenes, and I was able
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: to talk to good girlfriends or to friends that would
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: actually give me free space to just be me. Because
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: as soon as all the things just start, all hell
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: broke lose, I decided, you know what, I just want
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: to try. That's what I want to do.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I went back and I was like, let me so,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: so let's talk about that because you're a woman in ministry.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: We had Cancercara here and she was talking about me,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: because you're divorced now, yeah, and you're doing this journey
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: now as a single mom in ministry. What has that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: walk being like for you? Because past Sarah Man, she
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: was that because church looks at women different when they'd
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: have been divorced, as if they've done something wrong or
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and now they're ostracized and as if they can't do
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: ministry as a divorced woman, Like it's all this stuff.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So what has that been like for you to navigate that?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: It was super hard. It's been super super hard. But
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: something God told me in the beginning process. He told me,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: he said, because I was I was about to start preaching,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I was about to just quit everything because I had
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: left left the church, I had stopped attending services, and
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: then I had, you know, made an announcement that I
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: wasn't gonna come back, and so the backlash from that
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: just you know, you lose a lot of people because
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: their desire is for you know, their men of God.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Which is fine, it's no problem. I didn't try to
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: separate break any of that up. But that was super
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: hard because these are relationships that I've been building for
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: fifteen years. All I know is this relationship. I was
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: with them for seventeen, we were married for seventeen, and
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: with them for over twenty, so this is all I know.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So that means any relationships that I have, any friendships
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: that were made, all of that was just all. It
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: all dissipated, and it was hard for me to pick
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: up pieces because I didn't know who I could talk
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: to that would get trust and who I could trust
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: to really understand the depth of my personal pain. There
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: weren't a lot of people that I could, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: lean into. Now, the Lord did give me a really good,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: solid group of friends, but I promise you it was
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it was super difficult.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Did you believe that women passes when they go through
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: marital changes. Do you feel like they need more mental
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: health support or emotion support than anything? Yes?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Why I believe that because the first place
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: you were attacked is in your mind. The heart is
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: connected to the mind, and I believe that you know
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: because that broken place, that space is so you're so
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: broken you really don't know what to do. Actually, at
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: one point I almost lost my mind. I know we
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: say that as cliche in church, but no, that was
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a point where I was sitting and I had a
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: breakdown in front of my kids, and it was the
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: hardest thing for me to be able to mentally recover
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: from because I had allowed so much pressure. I didn't
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: want them to see me hurting. I didn't want to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: allow them to see me in pain. And it was
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: until the point where I went back into what I
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: consider a childlike state. I started looking for my kids
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and they were sitting right there. I am having a
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: mental breakdown and my brother had to come and rescue me.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: My brother had to come pick me up and take me.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: It was a very, very difficult time. So I went
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: through those times often. It wasn't just once or twice.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I would get up to preach or have panic attacks
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: before I would get up to minister, and people would
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: think I was praising God, but I was over there
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: just saying God, just keep my mind, Just keep my mind,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: and so Jesus, honest and truthfully, I believe God knew.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Of course, he knows all things that this season was coming,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and he kind of prepared me for that season because
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: he started dealing with my mind first. That was the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: first place that he started to minister too, was my mom.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: All of this ministry. Did you know who you are?
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, did you know who you were?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I thought I did? I thought I did, I really did.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I thought like, Okay, I'm the prophets now, been ordained
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a prophet at twenty sixteen, been preaching now for a
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: certain amount of years. So I'm like, okay, I got this.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I got this down. I'm a wife. I know how
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to do the white thing. I know how to support
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: my husband, and I love my husband. I know how
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: to be a mom, I know how to take care
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: like I felt like I was in a rhythm, and
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, this happens and two of
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: my titles are taken, and I'm like, where do I go?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: How do I identify myself? Because we identify ourselves by
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: what we do, and so my identity was lost in
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, You're not a pastor anymore? Who gonna
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: pick up your purse? Who gonna who's gonna come pick
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you up for church? Who's going to take you?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: It was so many different things that shifted from me,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: even to the point where I wrestled with where I
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: don't I pay my time? Is it because I have
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: church to go to?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: It was so many things that I had to put
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: back in place. It was very, very difficult for you.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: And guess what this is a therapist in me. I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: heard you say all of that, and I never heard
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: you say you know how to be a woman.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't go after her.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: It's okay, this is this is this is this is
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: what I do. Yeah, that's what I want you to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: go after in this next season. Yes, go after the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you before you took on the title. Yes, I have
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: worked with many first ladies and pastors, and we often
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: treat God as he's a selfish God because we're quickly
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: say he's a jealous God. Two different things. The jealous
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean he's selfish, you know what I mean. He
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't want you all to yourself and you not be
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: all that you're supposed to be. For you, Yes, because
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: if he came that we may have life more abundantly.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I came that your life has an abundance that you
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: yourself can partake in. And this is not just about
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the abundance of church and the abundance of ministry. And
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I think the difficulty is that when particularly and I'm
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: speaking because my mother went through the same thing the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: way them people did my mother when my parents divorced,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the church folk fact like she didn't even exist the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: way they handle her. I watch her. She doesn't know this,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: but I watched my mom shrink. My mom was a
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: powerful woman of God. One of the best dresses I've
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: ever seen. My mom was your age when she divorced
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: my dad at forty one. And I watch a woman
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: who had such high self esteem that was really rooting.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm supporting my husband and for those women that
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: are watching, whether you administer or not. And I'm saying this,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm a man saying it to you because I'm
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: watching a mother that is sixty seven that is still
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: looking for herself and can I tell you that thing
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: breaks me to my core because I often think about
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: what could my mother have been and who could she
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: have become? And one of the things that is important
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: to me that I often say to myself is said, God,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: before make sure you change and fix whatever that can
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: be wrong in me, before you see my wife, because
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I never want my wife to get to the end
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: of her role and say what could I have been?
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: If anything, I want her to say, look who I've
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: become with him. It's probably because as I'm sitting here,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I see my mom as we're sitting here talking, because
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: my mom was forty one, I've remembered and I remember
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: her trying to find herself as a woman. And that's
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: great that we can bring fire down and we can
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: speak into other people's lives. But I do believe, and
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: that's something I'm learning. I do believe there are seasons
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of our life that God says turned the poor inwards
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: profits start speaking to you profit. Start giving yourself word, profit,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Start giving yourself word because you deserve that, and you
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: don't deserve to try to find you in a season
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: where you're also trying to recover.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: M hmm.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: That's really good because nobody talks about what divorce does
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to the brain.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: M y's talk about it. What's the brain? I feel
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: like something happened in my heart. I used to maybe
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: my sister. I don't know, but I used to tell people,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I'll tell me that I really need to go get
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: my heart checked, because I mean, I know that I
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: felt broken hearted, but no, I felt like I did
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: some intense things to my heart to the point where
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I would I don't know, It's just it felt different.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: But I did spend some time. That was the first
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: thing God tried to identify me was who who? Who was?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't know who I was, that's the truth. And
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what I liked anymore. I like, whatever
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: you liked. I was like, what does it come to, Miraca?
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Whatever you like, whatever you want, whatever you need, you know.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: And so it was hard for me because I had
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: put this hat on and I didn't know how to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: operate outside of that head. I just knew what the
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: hat required. Sit a certain way, walk a certain way,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: talk a certain way, do it just like this, And
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: so now I don't have to do that. And I'm
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: in service now, where I'm at churches, I'm visiting churches now,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: trying to find my space. It's difficult to even find
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: your space again because where do I belong? Where do
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I fit with the annoying that I have, with the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: calling that's on my life. You don't want to be
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: too much because you don't want people to think that
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: you're trying to do some you know, trying to take
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: their spider where you're not trying to. You know, it's
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: just a very difficult space. I felt like a square
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a circle. I was trying my
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: best to find my place. And if I'm honest, I'm still,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: you know, to this day, still just developing finding out
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: that that who that person is.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Identifying her, Yeah, still is and that's okay. And I
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: want you to give yourself as much grace and I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: mean that's silver give yourself as much grace as you
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: possibly can. I think in this season of your life,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: it's also discovering the freedom to feel again. I think
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: my mom is known for many years. My mom was
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: non for many years. Like I've watched my mom so closely. Man,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: That's why I can sit. I can see it. She
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: was non for many years. The man my mom married,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I can say this now, and the godless of preacher
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: pastor started having church in the house, I consider and
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: say I understood while my mom married him, though I
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: don't like my experience or what happened, but I also
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: know there was a part of her that it just
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: became numb, and she said, I don't want to raise
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: these three kids by myself. And she met him through
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: some friends or it wasn't just some arbitrary guy. But
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I forget it. Because when there is a pain and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: a heartbreak that you experienced, sometimes male or female, and
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: even and particularly when betrayal is in it, that thing
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: break you to where the emotions that you used to feel,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: those sensors are turned off, yeah, and you stop feeling
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: so much that you don't even know how to feel.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to feel, which direction to go in.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I was definitely in this similar, very similar space and
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: just trying to Like you said, you don't know who
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: to trust, who to talk to, who has your best
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: interest at heart, and every person that you've ever supported, loved,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: given to, done for just all of a sudden just disappears.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So now you literally are alone in the middle of it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And God just really, I mean, I know, I leaned
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: heavily on him. He really, you know, ministered a lot
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: to me during that time. I thought people thought I
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: was gonna be crazy because I saw all I did
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: was talk to God, talk to God, because that was it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know another answer, and sometimes I didn't have words.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I just had tears. And the beauty of that was
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that He understood that for me, because when I wanted
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: to say things, and when I wanted to, I cussed
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: that crap. I just I was frustrated. I was angry
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: with him. I was angry with you know, life. I
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: was angry with people. And I had a lot of unforgiveness,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of her a lot of pay and I
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: wanted to but my tenerator was still people were still
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: calling me in, people were still telling me to come minister.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I know now that that was God's way of healing me,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: is that he brought me to He kept me on
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the road, he kept me preaching because that was the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: only thing that was going to give me life. If
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I would not have had ministry, Honestly, I don't know
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: if how to have made it. I don't know if
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I would have survived that season in my life.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Were you afraid of isolation?
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was afraid to sit alone, be alone, and
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: be by myself. I've never been alone, never been alone,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: So being by myself was the scariest thing that I've
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: ever had to do. Now, postal vorce, I'm having to
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: sit with myself.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: What does that feel like?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I like her, you know, she's pretty dope. I tend
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: to be Bama comedian. I'm pretty fun. I like it.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: But some of the thoughts that I think about myself,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: things that i'm you know, I think about the loss,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I think about relationships, and for some reason, this that
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: season plays in my head. I wanted to go away,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: but it replays, you know, I remember conversations that were had,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I remember things people said to me. So when I'm alone,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: it's just like a I hit play on a A
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: in a very heart space. So it's not it's not easy.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no it's not. And because you know, sometimes the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: isolation is overwhelming, because there are times when silence can
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: be loud.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I ain't no hand right. No silence had volume.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: It does, Silence has has, has has a lot of
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: all because no one understands what the hell that has
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to go through when the antidote that they give everyone
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: else works but it doesn't work for them. When you're
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: asking yourself, well, I told them to stand in faith,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and I told them to fast, and I told them to,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you know, go read this scripture that was going to
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: encourage them. But then you're sitting in silence, and none
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: of that seems to work for you.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: None. Nothing. I would literally be sitting like okay. So
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to make this word work, make it manifest
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: for me. And I asked God that too. Probably like
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: a years ago, I was like, God, I just want
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: to be a recipient of the prophecies that I prophesy
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: to others. Can I have the same level of peace
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that I pray for others to have and I have
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the same joy. I even asked God that I said,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: what was it that the enemy was after? It had
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: to be something that he was after as it related
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: to me, because there's no way I'm going through this.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I've been faithful, I've loved you. I've given, I've done,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I've you know, I listened all my little stuff, and
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the Lord he dealt with my heart. He just consistently
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: kept my heart in a place of peace. And I said, God,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: what was he after? He said, I gave you extreme joy.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: So whenever you come into an environment, you bring joy
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: into that atmosphere. And the enemy's desire was to sift
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: people of joy. And if I didn't have it personally,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the people wouldn't be able to receive of it. So
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I believe that that was the main thing with one
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: of the many things that he was after in me,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: because that was a part of my makeup. What God
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: made me made me just a very joyful, happy person.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And I hadn't found I hadn't. I feel like I'm
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: coming into that yea space again, but it took me
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a minute to even consider that I could be happy again.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: M hmm. I'm just allowing this in to to just
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: settle h I feel the way because I know that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: you're still navigating through it. But I'm hoping that this
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: conversation is allowing you in some way to release because
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you know, when you when you go through something as
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: a pastor, and as a leader, you know, we we don't.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: We rarely check on those people, you know what I'm saying.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: We rarely ask about those people. We've rarely you know,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: like look to be a source of comfort for them
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: because we feel what.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: You know, God, you're supposed to be all right, and
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: you oh.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: They'll be fine, And we forget that the late leaders
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and those who labor among us as shepherds, that their
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: people navigating their own journeys.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's a person behind the pool pit. There's
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: a real person behind the microphone. And definitely most people
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: don't really And I found this out during that process too.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people didn't know what to say.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And at first I was people, Oh yeah, most definitely.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: We were considered a model, the model couple, like everybody
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: would you know, aspire to look up to to say,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you know, because what you see is what you get
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: at loved loved my husband. We were, like I said,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: together for twenty years and it was a what you
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: saw was true. Everybody was like, oh so it was fake. No,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: it wasn't fake. Those moments when it got bad, it
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: just got bad, But before that it was good, it
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: was good. I still to this day, still think that
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: he's an amazing preacher. Still tell people to go to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: the church. And you know, I don't. I don't have
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: any you know, negative things to say. It's a relates
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: to that. But I do believe that people didn't know
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: how to respond to us because we were the ones
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that were doing the marriage conferences, writing the marriage bookscuse me,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: writing books on marriage and all the things. And then
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: here we are.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: When did y'all write that marriage book?
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Twenty I think he wrote it. He wrote it at
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Listen, I listen, Lord, bless me get married. I ain't
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: write no begow marriage. Why get man? I got a
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: close friend who dropped up phenomenal book on marriage. Ye
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: had just recently got married. Man a year later. I'm
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: talking about a tsunami hitter. I don't know what it is, man,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: But in the book said, Ruth, wherever you are, we
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: ain't writing no good We ain't write no books about
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: no feelds. Matter of fact, Ruth, I know your past
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and I know you have a lot of loss. We're
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: not writing about no loss. I'm just joking. But you know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know that that's just a dissonance that I
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: just had. Internally, I was just like, man, because you know,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: we we romanticize relationships and then those who seem to
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: do it perfectly and those who seem to do it well, uh,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: in some way we kind of idolize them, do you
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And so, and it can become
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: very you know, you know, it's like, oh, man, oh,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I can't believe them. Yes, you know, I can't believe
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: they they're walking away. You know.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: So we had noble because we were pastors and that,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: so we had doubled the I can't believe it, you know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: that type thing. I can't believe that y'all are this
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: or that. But you know, I had to silence everything everybody.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I moved. I didn't move away, but I moved far
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: enough away and distance myself enough to be able to
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: not hear the noise.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's what my mom did. She came to
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Texas really to move. She had to move away. And
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: she even said she just couldn't deal with the shame.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: She couldn't deal with the people, you know, because it's
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: it's hard to heal in the place that you be,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: in the same place that you built, that you were
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: broken in Yes, you know, so let me ask you this,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: what what is your You want to be married again?
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely?
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I think right after it happened, I had started making
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: posts and people like you have to posting to it.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So when I was like, I think because I was
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: so used to being a wife, I didn't know what
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: to do with myself. So I wasn't ready in I
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: definitely wasn't ready at the time, but I felt like
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I was, but I would go and I wanted to pour.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: So one of my gifts is to push, to be
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a pusher, to pour into the person, help them to
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: develop strategies, all things, all the great stuff anyway, But yes,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be married again, but I was I
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: was different. Wasn't because I wasn't healed yet.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: For the women that are watching okay, that have going
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: through loss, whether it's divorce, loss of loved one, the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: women that are navigating transition right now. And I feel
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: like there's a lot of women in ministry, a lot.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why God has been having me
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: bring women in ministry on this platform because it's needed. Yeah,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of you Because again
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: for me, when the women come I do it for
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: my mother because she didn't have.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: A voice I was suppos about to say. This is
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a voice for those women. Because one of the things
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: my DM blows up after service because I normally preach
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: about or minister about my divorce whenever i'm you know, minister, now,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: that's some of the things God has given me to
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: talk about helping women in transition. But my i DM
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: blows up. You wouldn't imagine how many that I get.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: There are women everywhere, pastor's wives, minister's wives, women in
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: church in general that are in the same spot that
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: we're in, and so it it's definitely a space that
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I know God has given me to bring people to healing.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you say to them?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: What do I say to them? It depends.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, because they're gonna watch this if you share
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: so much. But what do you want them to take
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: away from this? Because you have you've been very resilient
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: because you did something that I wouldn't. I wouldn't advise
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: any preacher to do it. Was it you kept preaching, Okay,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't any preacher that has gone through divorce or
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: significant change. I'm gonna sit them down. That was a
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: pastor that went through a divorce and I was this
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: therapist and I had him sit down and not preach
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: for six weeks. He was he wasn't going to agree
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: to any longer than that, and I had him sit
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: down because you can't process. Why are you preaching?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: That's good, that's good, that's true, that's very.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: True, because the brain doesn't know how to separate the
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: two because you call it word. What is pain? You
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: will call it oil?
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: What is trauma?
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, you will call it. I'm
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in this message series, but you're processing now. You did it,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: and I understand why.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Well I didn't actually, and I have one thousands. The
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Lord told me not to bleed on the people, so
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: during the first six months nobody really knew based on
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: the services.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: And I think too, you said this earlier. You're preaching
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: also was healthy for you to not be by yourself.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And the Lord told me, he said, I'll hear you
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: as you go. That was my word that I got
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: from him, because when I told my breeche some work,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: he said, no, I'll hear you as you go. He
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: didn't want me to carry the weight because I was
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: trying to carry the weight of everything in that timeframe.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: But he told me, he said, as you go, he
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: said out here. So it was through sermons and what
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: was crazy. Every place that I went from twenty three
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: to twenty four, twenty four, every place that I went,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the Lord would allow somebody to pull me to the side,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: to prophesy to me, to minister to me, you know,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: in that space, whereas if I was home alone, I
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have got that touch or that level of word.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: But I feel like I'd allowed those people to minister
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: to that place.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also I you know this, this episode is
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: so good for me, and my mother's here and so
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I know I can see her body language, and I
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: can see that it's blessing her because you're also getting
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to restore yourself for you and your sixties. Yes,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I want you to watch this. I want you to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: watch this. I want you to watch this. Okay, Now,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: you think my mother made sixty seven years this year,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and she looks amazing. She but you think about a
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: woman who's dedicated most of her life to a marriage
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and a children and being a pastor wife. You get
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to your sixties and you say to yourself, who am I?
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And then you say to yourself, well, how much time
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: do I have to figure it out? So you see
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: why your healing process is going to be paramount and
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the journey that you're on in sharing because I know
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: this is your first episode and podcasts, because this is
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: going I'm telling you there are so many women and
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I ain't just talking about pastors. There are so many
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: women are trapped and events that has imprisoned them to
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: where they can't go forward. That their identity was tied
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: to I'm supporting my husband. Their identity was tied to
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I'm supporting my children. Their identity was tied to it's
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the career, it's my boss, it's my general manager, it's
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: my CEO. And you think about all of the energy,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: all of the time, and all the years that you give,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: and you get to the end of the road and
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: you say, not only who am I, but then you say,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: well how much time do I have left to figure
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: her out? So what you're doing, I applaud you for
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: using not only just your testimonies, but for sharing your
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: life because it would have been nice to see you
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: talk to my mother at forty one. Wow, because I
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: still think about that. I have such a vivid memory
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: of my mom driving us to Texas in a Uall
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: truck with three kids, trying to start a new life.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: And I can remember her having this look like, I
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing, but I gotta figure it out.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I gotta figure it out, gotta figure it out. I
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: was the same. I was in a space because he
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: was a provider, took care so I didn't even know
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: what light build place. Was crazy, but so I had
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: to figure out everything. How to pay the light bill,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: how to pay bills, let's talk about that. That's crazy.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: I had to figure out how to take care of myself,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: what I needed to do every day, you know, how
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: to cut the meals and have now don't have to
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: supply the same amount of food for you know, a
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: bigger family. It was just so many transitions, so many changes.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I told God one day, I said, I'm tired of
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: starting over. I don't want to start over. I don't
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: want to have to put that type of energy into
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: that again. And God just God did give me words
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: to how to get up, you know, but it took.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: It took a lot of breaking down and a lot
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: of reality checks. I tell people all the time like
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: It's like I was sitting in the middle of a rouble.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: My house was up all pretty, it was nice, everything
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: was in place, and then all of a sudden, one
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: day I looked up and I was in the middle
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: of the rouble, trying to figure out which brick I
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: need to pick up first, Which one did I want
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: to put back to rebuild? How was I going to rebuild?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: What was my foundation going to be like?
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: What windows was I going to put in? What roof
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: was I going to put on my house? And I
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: was trying to figure that out, and the Lord started
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: with my mind first. He started he said, think on
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: these things, whatsoever things are true? Whatsoever things I loved it?
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: What aresoever? Things of a good report? He dealt with
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: those things because he had to deal with my mind
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: because he knew the energy that was coming. People were
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: going to say negative things. So he said, I need
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you to have the word and you and you need
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: to know your facts over your feelings, because your feelings
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: will falter, but your facts are going to be withstands.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So you need to know the truth. So I started
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: to rebuild from who I knew I was. I love this,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I love basketball, I love football, I love you know,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: there are things I like to do with my children.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: So I started to, you know, go back and rediscover
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: those things. I like painting, and I like dancing, I
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: like you know. I just I rediscovered those parts of
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: me because those are the things that brought me joy
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: and what brought me life and subtle. That's kind of
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: how I navigated that space of brokenness.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I love it. She went back to the things that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: were attached or associated with who she was before she
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: had to rediscover. In closing, Cecilia, this has been a
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: phenomenal conversation. Selfishly, I thank you because I was hoping
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: that my mother would be here today for this conversations.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: You're moving forward. What does healing mean for you?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Healing for me is I think it's one day at
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: a time, one moment at a time, one step at
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: a tongue. What I'm personally doing for myself right now
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: is what you said, just rediscovering me, finding that personal
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: place of joy and just given a yes to my
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: every day whatever that looks like that. I like things
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: that I like, things that I want to do. I'm
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: giving it a new yeares now, I did do therapy,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: so I love. I went through therapy. I loved it
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: because it really dug out some stuff in me. So
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I believe in Jesus and therapy. You know, I believe
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: in both. So healing for me means to continue to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: just allow God to empty out all that old stuff
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and rebuild the new stuff in me.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Listen, people, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I'm going
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: to close it out, not with the past and not
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: the profits, just with Cecilia Matthews, because that is who
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: she was. That is who she is before the titles.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know where you are, and I love what
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: she said. This healing is allowing God to carve out
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: those things or in you. Therapy can help you carve
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: out those things. It can help you go into the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: crevices and go into the corners and go into the basement.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Because some of us hade things in the basement of
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: our hearts, and we close the door and we choose
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: not to open it under no circumstance because we don't
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: want to relive the memory or relive the pain. But
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: can I tell you you can't get to the other
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: side of healing until you relive it. And you're not
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: reliving it to retraumatizing yourself. You're reliving it to flush
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: it out. You're reliving it to allow it to pass through.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: There has to be a portal. And the only way
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: this can happen because I truly believe God want us
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: to be more of a river than a reservoir. He
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: want us to be more of a river than a reservoir.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: He want things to flow through us. Listen, Miss Cecilia,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: thank you for coming and joining the healing community. I
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: know that there's a lot of women and men, you know.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: I don't want to discriminate because some brothers watch this podcast.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: And for those of you that are out there that
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: are going through a transition, I want to encourage you
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: to know that there's always light on the other side,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: because most of the time, transitions feel like a dark space,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: so like you can't get through, but there is light
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: on the other side. So until next time, remember healing
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: is a journey and wholeness is the destination, and you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: gotta do the work. Just here over. Doctor j a
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: production of the Black Effect Pots Network. For more podcasts
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows, and you can follow
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: me at King J Barnett on Instagram and x and
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: follow us on YouTube just Heel Doctor J.