Latest / Foul Territory / What do we know about the Mark Walter investigation and how might it impact the Dodgers moving forward?

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What do we know about the Mark Walter investigation and how might it impact the Dodgers moving forward? · Foul Territory

0:04
Speaker 1: Hey, let's get into what's happening with the Dodgers and
0:07
Speaker 1: their ownership group right now. Melody Gutierrez joining us on FT.
0:11
Speaker 1: She's an investigative sports reporter for The Athletic Melody, thank
0:15
Speaker 1: you for joining us, and we need help. We want
0:17
Speaker 1: to know more about what's going on here. I know
0:19
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of investigating reportive investigative reporting on this,
0:23
Speaker 1: So what can you tell us about the situation Mark
0:26
Speaker 1: Walter is in right now?
0:27
Speaker 2: We know he sold the Lakers. What have you learned
0:29
Speaker 2: so far?
0:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this gets into insurance spreadsheets, which is not
0:35
Speaker 3: really where we spend our time, you know, in the
0:37
Speaker 3: sports world. So you know, new subject for me as
0:41
Speaker 3: well in terms of diving into those filings. But I
0:44
Speaker 3: think what it comes down to that is easiest to
0:48
Speaker 3: explain is that you know his companies. He has two
0:51
Speaker 3: insurance companies, Delaware Life and clear Spring Life. They have
0:56
Speaker 3: been making loans to other entities. And what the SEC
1:01
Speaker 3: and US Attorney's Office in New York have been looking
1:04
Speaker 3: at is you know whether or not he's standing on
1:06
Speaker 3: both sides that, But is he on the side of
1:08
Speaker 3: the person lending, the company lending and on the other
1:12
Speaker 3: side of the borrower, which when you're using insurance funds,
1:18
Speaker 3: you know, those are supposed to be pretty low risk.
1:20
Speaker 3: There's not a lot of visibility into what risk factors
1:23
Speaker 3: there are with these loans. But you know, there's a
1:26
Speaker 3: lot of questions on you know, how much was known
1:29
Speaker 3: why these were listed as companies that had nothing to
1:32
Speaker 3: do with his own company when clearly they've now kind
1:35
Speaker 3: of righted some of these filings to show a significant
1:39
Speaker 3: increase in the amount of affiliated debt.
1:44
Speaker 4: Melody. I watch games and I'm like, okay, I can
1:46
Speaker 4: talk about that. I read your article and I'm like,
1:49
Speaker 4: I need your help, Melody. And I think fans are
1:52
Speaker 4: also that way because I don't want to portray this
1:54
Speaker 4: and tell us maybe if I'm right or if I'm wrong,
1:57
Speaker 4: as Oh, the Dodgers, all this must be more nefarious
2:01
Speaker 4: stuff by the Dodgers when I don't feel like the
2:03
Speaker 4: Dodgers are a nefarious organization. Can you explain it to
2:07
Speaker 4: fans who are confused by this, how it affects the
2:11
Speaker 4: team that they either hate or the team that they love.
2:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the Dodgers have you know, had a
2:19
Speaker 3: lot of success under Mark Walter. You know they've enjoyed
2:23
Speaker 3: the deep pockets of this owner. But you know, I
2:26
Speaker 3: think that there's just a lot of questions still, like
2:29
Speaker 3: there's a lot left to be kind of answered. So
2:31
Speaker 3: I understand sort of the you know, speculation, but we
2:37
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of answers to this. You know
2:39
Speaker 3: it will there be criminal charges, no idea, and until
2:43
Speaker 3: you know that happens, you know, I think that it's
2:47
Speaker 3: all kind of speculative.
2:48
Speaker 2: Right now, I'll dive into more nitty gritty.
2:53
Speaker 1: So when you were explaining affiliated versus you know, unaffiliated,
2:57
Speaker 1: can you get into what that means?
3:00
Speaker 2: There are certain regulations.
3:01
Speaker 1: That a company in this position has where I guess
3:05
Speaker 1: you can loan a certain amount. This is where I'm
3:07
Speaker 1: going to start to lose it, so I won't go
3:09
Speaker 1: too long on the question.
3:10
Speaker 2: But how that affected things?
3:12
Speaker 1: And then is there some type of potential payback in
3:15
Speaker 1: the past when this happens where you do actually have
3:18
Speaker 1: to give money back?
3:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in an insurance company, your money that you're
3:26
Speaker 3: essentially loaning needs to be low risk because these are
3:30
Speaker 3: people's savings. This is people who are going to rely
3:33
Speaker 3: on this money in retirement or death benefits. You know,
3:37
Speaker 3: this money is pretty sacred in the world of finances.
3:41
Speaker 3: But what's happening in these companies is they're loaning it
3:44
Speaker 3: out to companies that are affiliated with the Delaware Life
3:50
Speaker 3: and clear Spring Life. And so what the problem is
3:54
Speaker 3: is that when you're it's not that these are illegal,
3:56
Speaker 3: although there are some limits to how much you can
4:00
Speaker 3: loan out to affiliated companies. The problem is is that
4:04
Speaker 3: they didn't disclose them. So, like the easiest example I've
4:07
Speaker 3: found to kind of explain what's happening here is Delaware Life,
4:11
Speaker 3: which is controlled by Mark Walters, gave a loan and
4:14
Speaker 3: it's a small loan compared to what we're looking at
4:16
Speaker 3: in the billions at issue here, but it was a
4:19
Speaker 3: you know, four million dollar loan that was given to
4:22
Speaker 3: Dodger Tickets, and that's the entity with the Dodgers that
4:25
Speaker 3: deals with like season tickets and other business operations. In
4:29
Speaker 3: these documents that were filed at the end of twenty
4:32
Speaker 3: twenty five, Delaware Life, again owned by Mark Walters, controlled
4:37
Speaker 3: by Mark Walters, listed that loan as being unaffiliated. That
4:43
Speaker 3: is obviously a company that he has an interest in
4:46
Speaker 3: that his other stakes in the Dodgers has an interest
4:50
Speaker 3: in so by listing that as unaffiliated, you're essentially telling
4:56
Speaker 3: the regulators that you know, this is you know, debt
4:59
Speaker 3: that we we have fully vetted. We have you know,
5:02
Speaker 3: not an interest in whether or not they pay it back.
5:05
Speaker 3: Like you know, that part is pretty clear here that
5:08
Speaker 3: like they have an interest on both sides whether that
5:12
Speaker 3: loan gets paid back. And you know, how do you
5:15
Speaker 3: kind of vet that transaction if you have a stake
5:20
Speaker 3: on both sides? Does that make sense?
5:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes as much sense as I can make
5:27
Speaker 1: out of it, of course.
5:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:28
Speaker 1: This is definitely not our wheelhouse, but super interesting and
5:32
Speaker 1: ties into the baseball world here, right, It's not like
5:34
Speaker 1: you're not saying the word Dodgers as we talk about this.
5:37
Speaker 1: I'm going to go we can work our way backward,
5:39
Speaker 1: but I want to go to the end game here.
5:42
Speaker 1: Are there any indications, I know you don't have the
5:44
Speaker 1: answer to this, but just based on the research that
5:46
Speaker 1: you did that it could affect the Dodgers, even in
5:49
Speaker 1: terms of a potential sale or partially selling shares.
5:52
Speaker 2: It's a valid question.
5:54
Speaker 1: When Mark Walter has sold the Lakers, it sounds like
5:56
Speaker 1: there's something going on with Chelsea FC. I don't know
5:58
Speaker 1: if it's officially happened yet and and there were I
6:01
Speaker 1: don't know if this was reports, rumors, et cetera about
6:04
Speaker 1: how the TV contract maybe they could get you know,
6:06
Speaker 1: some money up front there. So can you explain the
6:09
Speaker 1: sports side and the selling off that has occurred in
6:12
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks.
6:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to get into this. I mean Mark
6:16
Speaker 3: Walter is a sports mogul. Like it's a name that
6:19
Speaker 3: most people like might not know. You know, it's not
6:23
Speaker 3: you know, he's not a flashy owner, so he's not
6:25
Speaker 3: a somebody who kind of comes to the forefront when
6:28
Speaker 3: you're talking about owners. But he's got a stake in
6:30
Speaker 3: a in multiple leagues, you know, not just the NBA
6:35
Speaker 3: and you know, Major League Baseball, it's you know, women's
6:38
Speaker 3: hockey league. So what this has to do with the
6:41
Speaker 3: Dodgers is really everything and we don't know yet, Like
6:45
Speaker 3: it's like somewhere between there. You know, the Dodgers are
6:50
Speaker 3: in the finances here, like their finances are coming into
6:54
Speaker 3: play in this you know investigation. You can see that
6:57
Speaker 3: even with Dodger ticket again a small item in the
7:00
Speaker 3: millions of dollars at play here. But you know, whether
7:02
Speaker 3: or not it leads to a sale. I think, like
7:04
Speaker 3: that's too early to say, you know, but you know,
7:07
Speaker 3: it does mean that everyone is kind of looking and saying,
7:10
Speaker 3: you know, what's the impact on deferred contracts? What is
7:13
Speaker 3: the impact you know on their ability to spend big
7:16
Speaker 3: in the future. So I think that there's you know,
7:19
Speaker 3: without even the sale question coming up. This impacts the Dodgers.
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8:24
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think you kind of answered my question because
8:27
Speaker 5: it correctly. If we're wrong, he owns about twenty seven
8:29
Speaker 5: percent of the team, and if he has to sell,
8:32
Speaker 5: I was wondering who would probably step up if there's
8:34
Speaker 5: any indication of who would buy it, But you kind
8:37
Speaker 5: of answered that question. We haven't quite got to the
8:39
Speaker 5: point where he.
8:39
Speaker 2: Has to sell, right.
8:42
Speaker 3: He's a majority owner, so he has a large stake
8:45
Speaker 3: in the Dodgers. I mean that that's you know, he
8:49
Speaker 3: bought into this team. You know, he's owned it since
8:52
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, and you know, I think that that's. Yeah,
8:56
Speaker 3: there's a lot of money obviously with the Dodgers, and
8:58
Speaker 3: it makes money, so it's not something you know, people
9:02
Speaker 3: sports owners get into this business because this is a
9:06
Speaker 3: you know, an asset that grows. I mean, look at
9:08
Speaker 3: the Lakers. He bought it, you know, fourteen months ago.
9:12
Speaker 3: It made two point five billion dollars in that one
9:16
Speaker 3: year that he owned the team. I mean that's I mean,
9:19
Speaker 3: who wouldn't want that as a return on their investment?
9:23
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. I think I think a lot of
9:25
Speaker 4: people would would not complain about that. Is there did
9:28
Speaker 4: you reach out to Major League Baseball? Is there something
9:31
Speaker 4: that they're just sitting back and letting the federal investigation
9:37
Speaker 4: take and whatever happens with the federal investigation, then they'd
9:40
Speaker 4: make their decision or are they doing their own type
9:43
Speaker 4: of investigation and how that handles the future for the
9:46
Speaker 4: Dodgers and for Walters as one of the thirty majority owners.
9:51
Speaker 3: You know that we've reached out to the Dodgers who
9:53
Speaker 3: have said this has like the Lakers sale has nothing
9:56
Speaker 3: to do with them, you know clearly in the finances
9:59
Speaker 3: that part isn't a through line there. But you know,
10:03
Speaker 3: I think that there's a lot of in the industry
10:06
Speaker 3: that are kind of sitting back and waiting to see
10:09
Speaker 3: what happens, you know, with the both the federal investigation
10:14
Speaker 3: and the you know, SEC investigation. So I think there's
10:18
Speaker 3: a lot of weight and figure out what's going on here.
10:23
Speaker 1: I'll refer to a question and just a topic that
10:25
Speaker 1: pops up frequently with the Dodgers. Many of their deals
10:30
Speaker 1: and a lot of money is tied up in deferrals
10:32
Speaker 1: deferred contracts. Does any of that tie into what's going
10:37
Speaker 1: on here?
10:37
Speaker 2: You know, whether you know.
10:38
Speaker 1: It could be looked at as that was helpful during
10:41
Speaker 1: all of this going on, or it could affect things
10:44
Speaker 1: going forward, you know, even if again, like we're theorizing here,
10:47
Speaker 1: he does need to sell a portion of the team
10:50
Speaker 1: that factors into the portion of his shares because there
10:53
Speaker 1: is whatever you want to call it debt or money
10:55
Speaker 1: that's owed later on.
10:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't don't get a sense that
11:01
Speaker 3: people are worried about that money not being there. But
11:04
Speaker 3: is you know, where is that money parked? I think
11:07
Speaker 3: is a good question, you know, and whether or not
11:10
Speaker 3: it's tied into you know, insurance companies and how policy
11:15
Speaker 3: holders feel about their money being tied to, you know,
11:19
Speaker 3: the Dodgers. I think a lot of people wouldn't realize that,
11:21
Speaker 3: you know, they have a stake in the outcome of
11:24
Speaker 3: the Dodgers with their you know, life annuity policies. And
11:28
Speaker 3: uh death policy, uh death insurance. So I think, you know,
11:32
Speaker 3: there's a lot to question on, you know, that element, And.
11:39
Speaker 1: I'll ask one that I know our guys are texting
11:42
Speaker 1: me about right now, and I'll bring it right to
11:44
Speaker 1: the forefront. That were like, doesn't show hey Otani have
11:47
Speaker 1: a key man clause and opt out in his contract?
11:50
Speaker 2: That is true.
11:51
Speaker 1: We spoke to your colleague Sam Blum the other day
11:53
Speaker 1: about it. He wrote a great article touching on the subject.
11:56
Speaker 1: At the time, when you look at that deal and show, hey,
11:59
Speaker 1: o Tani signing for seven hundred million deferred, so net
12:02
Speaker 1: present value more in the mid four hundreds, you don't
12:04
Speaker 1: really think, oh, let's keep an eye on the key
12:07
Speaker 1: man clause. Just in case Andrew Friedman or Mark Walter
12:10
Speaker 1: end up jumping ship, there is at least some semblance
12:14
Speaker 1: of a percentage of a possibility that he does have
12:17
Speaker 1: that option. Now he's made it clear, at least as
12:20
Speaker 1: Camp did. It seemed like in that article that he
12:22
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily jump ship. But what it does in the
12:25
Speaker 1: mainstream world is create people going, hey, maybe showey ops
12:29
Speaker 1: out and he signs with my team. So just thoughts
12:32
Speaker 1: on how I guess the percentage chance of this at
12:34
Speaker 1: least could increase given his financial issues right now or
12:38
Speaker 1: his financial turmoil that he's got to figure out, that
12:41
Speaker 1: he could end up not being the majority owner, and
12:44
Speaker 1: that could trigger a clause for the best player in
12:46
Speaker 1: the sport over the last five years to have his
12:49
Speaker 1: say on where he goes, not just where he goes,
12:51
Speaker 1: but also to rip up a contract and sign a
12:53
Speaker 1: new one that could be worth even more.
12:56
Speaker 3: I mean that really plays in to to like the
12:59
Speaker 3: Dodgers saying this has nothing to do with us, right, Like,
13:01
Speaker 3: that's definitely the line that they would want to take
13:04
Speaker 3: in this because you know, that is a key player,
13:07
Speaker 3: a key man agreement that you know, I would love
13:10
Speaker 3: you know, insight on you know why that was important
13:14
Speaker 3: to a tani like you know, but I think we
13:17
Speaker 3: we don't know. But I mean they're saying that he's
13:20
Speaker 3: not going to exercise it, you know. I think that's
13:22
Speaker 3: all we kind of know at this point. But you know,
13:24
Speaker 3: are other teams going, hey, there's an out here and
13:27
Speaker 3: we'd love to have you. I think that that's the
13:30
Speaker 3: fun part of baseball.
13:33
Speaker 2: What and yes, I'm with you. Yeah, it's a storyline.
13:35
Speaker 1: One one last question for you as you continue to
13:37
Speaker 1: cover this, is there one big question that you have
13:42
Speaker 1: or piece that you think unravels that really helps to
13:45
Speaker 1: tell the story here? For example, for me, from my perspective,
13:49
Speaker 1: that's much less dug in to.
13:51
Speaker 2: The story than you are.
13:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to know how much is do
13:54
Speaker 1: and when and how that gets accomplished because and of
13:58
Speaker 1: course we're not going to find out all of this finances.
14:00
Speaker 1: But if he's in a situation where it's like, hey,
14:02
Speaker 1: I got to come up with two, three, four, five
14:04
Speaker 1: billion dollars more, it's not like you can. Some billionaires
14:07
Speaker 1: can find that in their pocket. Others might have to
14:09
Speaker 1: sell off assets. So that to me is the baseball
14:12
Speaker 1: fan in me trying to figure out what's next.
14:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the liquidity issue is is fascinating. I mean,
14:19
Speaker 3: I can't tell you like what it was like to
14:22
Speaker 3: like pour over some of these insurance filings, you know,
14:24
Speaker 3: starting at six am, when I started noticing that they
14:27
Speaker 3: the second quarter filings were in there. You know. The
14:32
Speaker 3: issue that like I'm seeing in there and like am
14:35
Speaker 3: most interested in is the timeline of when these things
14:38
Speaker 3: need to be paid back. I don't think that that
14:41
Speaker 3: answers the question for like the federal investigation, because you know,
14:44
Speaker 3: what was done was done, but there is obviously a timeline.
14:48
Speaker 3: There's a restructuring plan that is in place with the
14:53
Speaker 3: two insurance companies trying to write the ship. I think
14:56
Speaker 3: the number that really stands out to a lot of
14:58
Speaker 3: people that kind of tells you exactly how big of
15:02
Speaker 3: an issue when we're talking about unaffiliated affiliated companies, you know,
15:07
Speaker 3: is that on their balance sheet, Like they were saying
15:09
Speaker 3: that three percent of their assets were from these affiliated companies,
15:14
Speaker 3: and that made credit raiders go like, oh, that's that's good, Like,
15:18
Speaker 3: let's give you a good rating. You know, on these
15:20
Speaker 3: revised ones, it you know, jumped over forty percent and
15:24
Speaker 3: that impacts their rating, which you know has a big
15:27
Speaker 3: impact on their business. And so it becomes this kind
15:29
Speaker 3: of cyclical issue when you're talking about this affiliated unaffiliated businesses.
15:35
Speaker 3: But that's the question I think moving forward is like
15:37
Speaker 3: what they're going to do. They've already moved six point
15:39
Speaker 3: five billion dollars in a swap between companies to try
15:44
Speaker 3: to take some of that affiliated debt off the books
15:48
Speaker 3: for Delaware Life and clear Spring Life. So you know
15:51
Speaker 3: that's what I'm looking at moving forward, is you know what,
15:54
Speaker 3: what's their next play? What are they next going to
15:56
Speaker 3: try to you know, liquefy like like interm of these assets.
16:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll be following, We'll be waiting for the
16:04
Speaker 1: next story as it sounds like this is just getting
16:07
Speaker 1: going here. So Melodie, thank you so much for joining
16:10
Speaker 1: us and helping us to figure some of this out.
16:12
Speaker 1: And we appreciate the time and encourage everyone to check
16:15
Speaker 1: out her article for much more Inside the Athletic.
16:18
Speaker 2: Thank you appreciate it.
16:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me.
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Speaker 2: All right, staying on for a few minutes.
17:25
Speaker 1: First of all, I hope that was helpful the segment
17:27
Speaker 1: we did there on what's going on with the Dodgers,
17:29
Speaker 1: because I got lost in a few different wormholes over
17:33
Speaker 1: the past twenty four hours reading things on social media,
17:36
Speaker 1: most of it helpful, and I try to keep to
17:39
Speaker 1: the business analysts. I think those are actually the best
17:41
Speaker 1: ones to explain some of this right now, and some
17:44
Speaker 1: of them are making a name for themselves in the
17:46
Speaker 1: sports world where they're saying, hey, this is what this
17:48
Speaker 1: looks like. When Melody was on with us earlier and
17:51
Speaker 1: she's explaining the three percent versus the over forty percent
17:56
Speaker 1: change and how that doesn't just affect the way that
17:59
Speaker 1: you're judged legally as a company. And again stay with
18:02
Speaker 1: me here I'm paraphrasing, but it also can affect the
18:04
Speaker 1: status of the company, right and the way creditors rate it,
18:07
Speaker 1: and it could really hurt the company, which then could
18:10
Speaker 1: hurt the people who own the company and the money
18:12
Speaker 1: that they borrowed. That's where the domino effect occurs. And
18:15
Speaker 1: the percentage chance of Mark Walter selling his shares or
18:18
Speaker 1: at least partial shares of the Dodgers has gone up
18:22
Speaker 1: since a few months ago. Right like a few months ago,
18:27
Speaker 1: someone said they'd be like, no way, there's been no
18:29
Speaker 1: indication of that. This team's on fire. Why would you
18:33
Speaker 1: sell right now?
18:35
Speaker 2: Right?
18:36
Speaker 4: Obviously, I mean other than you would make money if
18:38
Speaker 4: you sell. But they've built this for the long term.
18:41
Speaker 4: But to me, I just wanted I want to be
18:44
Speaker 4: more educated on it because I think there's too many,
18:47
Speaker 4: too many times or people here Dodgers' owner something not
18:55
Speaker 4: maybe all above board, and they just jump right to
18:58
Speaker 4: the yep, see deferred money. See I knew these guys
19:02
Speaker 4: were I knew these guys were not illegal stuff Like
19:04
Speaker 4: I knew I knew it, you know, just just another
19:06
Speaker 4: thing that Major League Baseball turns its eye to.
19:09
Speaker 2: No.
19:09
Speaker 4: I wanted, like, I want to know what it does,
19:11
Speaker 4: What does it mean? What is how is this gonna
19:13
Speaker 4: affect they're spending from here on out or the effect
19:18
Speaker 4: of Okay, maybe they have to cut back down to
19:21
Speaker 4: three hundred and ninety million dollars payroll. Who, Like, I
19:24
Speaker 4: want to know and not just jump to the conclusion
19:26
Speaker 4: that I'm pretty sure probably most of Twitter and Instagram
19:29
Speaker 4: have jumped to.
19:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not super
19:33
Speaker 5: educated on it. And and these two things could be
19:36
Speaker 5: very unrelated to all these other things that we're talking about,
19:39
Speaker 5: could be very unrelated to actual Dodger payroll and Dodgers
19:43
Speaker 5: deferred money. Once again, it's going to sound like we're
19:46
Speaker 5: defending them. I just don't really know. This is out
19:49
Speaker 5: of my comfort zone. I feel like I got very
19:51
Speaker 5: educated when I'm on this flight tonight. I'm actually gonna
19:54
Speaker 5: go through the entire article, try to educate myself a
19:57
Speaker 5: little bit more. But eventually the truth is gonna come out,
20:00
Speaker 5: and we're going to find out