Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When “Mummy Wine Time” Stops Being Funny [with Victoria Vanstone]

Transcript

When “Mummy Wine Time” Stops Being Funny [with Victoria Vanstone] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. My name's
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: doctor Justin Coulson, and I have a confession to make.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I don't drink alcohol, full stop, don't touch it, not
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: as Kylie my wife, missus Happy Families. But over the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: last several months, in fact, over the last several years,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I've had several people ask me to do a podcast
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: about parents and alcohol, specifically Mummy Wine Time. I just
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: haven't felt like I can do it without sounding snobby
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and self righteous and a bit of an old or
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: because I don't drink. So today I'm a Happy Families podcast,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a conversation about Mummy wine Time with someone who can
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: speak about it with more insight than anyone that I know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Earlier this year, I spoke with Victoria Vanstone. Victoria is
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the podcast host of Sober Awkward and the author of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: a parenting memoir that I didn't want to read but
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: ended up loving, called Mumming. It was just delightful. Now,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: after that podcast episode a, Victoria and I kept on chatting.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: She told me about her podcast, Sober Awkward. She has
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: won awards for that pod, and she insisted on handing
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: me a personally signed copy of her book One thousand
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: wasted Sundays. I didn't think that it was going to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: be my kind of thing because I don't drink and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: it's not my kind of thing, like in a lot
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of ways. But I read it in two sittings. I
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: would have read it in one sitting, but my flight
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to Perth wasn't quite long enough to finish it. So
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: that is a long introduction, but I think it's worth it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Victoria Vanstone is my guest on the podcast today and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about alcohol and parenting. Stay with us. Hello,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Happy Family's Podcast. I'm doctor Justin Colson.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Victoria Vanstone, Welcome back to The Happy Family's Pod.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Hi, thanks so much for having me again. I feel
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: sort of privileged to come on twice in such a
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: short period of time.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Justin doesn't happen very often. I'm pretty selective about things.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: But I think the ultimate compliment you can hear from
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: somebody about a book that you've written is wasn't interested,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: didn't want to read it, couldn't put it down. And
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: that's how I kind of was with both of your books.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I don't read very many parenting books because I kind
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of got the PhD in pairing, I don't need to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and I loved Mummy, which was what led to you
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: handing me A Thousand Wasted Sundays and saying, I think
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you really like it, and oh my goodness, I mean
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: as a non drinker who doesn't do the stuff that
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you describe in the book, I was completely captivated. But
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: even as a drinker, I think that I would have
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: been had I been one, if you know what I mean. Anyway,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: let's just start at the start. A Thousand Wasted Sundays
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: tells the story of the role that alcohol played in
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: your life. I thought that it was a really enlarging
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: and remarkably redemptive read. I just I loved it, literally,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: like I said, couldn't put it down except that the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: flight ended and I had to get off the airplane.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Describe a bit more about the role of alcohol in
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: your life.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like alcohol was always coming for me from
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: the moment I was born, whether that was environmentally, culturally, generationally,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: it felt like it was an arrow coming straight for
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: me and that I couldn't avoid it. So I don't
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: have a lot of shame about my drinking, because I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: was just copying what the people around me were doing when.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: As I grew up, my parents were sort of entertainers.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: In the book, I describe if in a street full
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: of darkness, Our house was like the shining disco ball.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: There was always something going on, always a party, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: it was never any sad drinking or alone drinking. It
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: was always what I would call a sort of cheerful pandemonium,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: a sort of celebratory style of drinking. So from a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: very young age, all I thought was, well, I want
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: a piece of that. Doesn't that look like fun? This
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: is how everybody lets their hair down and has fun,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to join in. So that's what I did.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: From a very young age, I started stealing alcohol from
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the garage. As a teenager, I started using it to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: help with my confidence. And it's a shame that alcohol
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: comes along at a very vulnerable age for most kids.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That's sort of twelve thirteen, fourteen, where we feel like
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: we really don't fit in. I certainly felt like that,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: and suddenly I had this tool to make me the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: funnest person in the room. And that continued through my teens,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: and alcohol gave me something. It gave me a personality
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: almost and I never looked outside that personality until I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was in my forties. I became the ultimate party animal.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I was a reliable drinking buddy, and you would have
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: wanted me around. I was a good laugh. There were
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: lots of red flags whipping me across the face all
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: of those years, justin which I chose to ignore. You know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I had promiscuous relationships. I was a recreational drug user,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: because as soon as my inhibitions were out of the window,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: anyone was passing me anything, I was shoving it down
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: my throat, like ecstasy and all sorts of things. I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: was just a crazy party girl and I blew my
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: finger off with a firework on the Millennium Night. There
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: was a cult involved. I mean, you'll have to read
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the book to find out about all of that stuff.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: But alcohol was a huge part of my identity, and
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: it wasn't until I had my first child that I
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: was forced into questioning my intake.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I want to talk more about their parenting aspects shortly, Victoria.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I've read a lot of memoirs. There's some of my
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: favorite books to read. I would say that this book,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: A Thousand Wasted Sundays is potentially the most revealing memoir
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that I've ever read. You don't really know me at all.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: We've had a couple of conversations, but I feel like
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I know you as a person. I feel like I
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: feel like I could sit down and just start chatting
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: away with you, as I'm sure many people have told
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: you when they've read your book, because it makes you
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: feel like we've known you your whole life, and anyone
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: who's listened to this conversation our family's home was the
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: shining disco ball in a dark street, cheerful, pandema. I mean,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I just love the way that you speak and right
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: revealing memoir in spite of the very, very very challenging
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: things that you share. I've already highlighted hopeful and redemptive
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: is how I would describe the book. I got weepy,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I laughed out loud on the airplane a couple of times.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: But the thing for me was your personal insight into
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the impact that alcohol was having. Can you step us
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: through that transition time as you went from being a
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: single to a marriage to now I've got a baby
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and this, oh my goodness, alcohol is not doing for
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: me what I always thought it did for me.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Well, when I got pregnant, Actually, my first ever sober
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: social event was actually my wedding day. I was about
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: three months pregnant and I went to my own wedding
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and experience. You know, I was able to soak up
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: all the love in the room, and I thought, Oh,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: isn't this strange? What strange world I've stepped into? Ye?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Sorry, can I just I know that you've said that
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: so easily, but I want to emphasize this. The first
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: time that you've been to a social event and been
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: sober is your wedding day. And the only reason that
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you're sober on your wedding day is because you've got
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: a little embryo growing away there, becoming a fetus. Yeah.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, even that for me, I think that's mind
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: blowing and worth just pausing on. Yes, never had a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: social event, so but that's just astonishing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Well why would I? Why would I? Somebody like me?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Why would I have ever gone to a party and
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: not had a drink. It just wasn't on my radar.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I equated drinking with fun, so I was always going
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to be there, whether it was a house party, a
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: birthday or awake. I would have been bringing the fun.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: That was my responsibility as a human being was to
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: show every body a good time, and actually to my
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: own detriment because it meant I gave myself away for
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the entertainment of others, and that led to me having
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: to question my alcohol intake. Actually, but at my wedding
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: it was my first real insight into what sobriety might
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: be like, and I thought, well, isn't this lovely? But then,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: of course, as soon as that baby was born, I
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: was actually in the hospital having a glass of champagne
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: still in the bed after a CEA section. So it
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: was clear that I wasn't going to stop and something
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: had to happen. And what happened was that I tried
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to combine these two lives. There's a point in the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: book where the mum and the party girl collide, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: that is really where my life began to change. It
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: was when I decided that I wanted to carry on
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: my very frivolous drinking habit. And when I talk about
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: a frivolous drinking habit, I mean I wasn't drinking every day.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't have a bottle of Jack Daniels clutch to
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: my chest and on a park bench. I wasn't losing everything.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about, a very normalized social binge drinking habit
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: which a lot of people will resonate with. I wasn't
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  Speaker 2: anyone that you'd pick out of the crowd and say
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: she's got a problem. They'd probably say, well, VIC likes
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: a drink, isn't she fun? And because I grew up
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: with that mentality, I never stopped and questioned it. So
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: when I had a baby, suddenly I wanted to carry
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: on my normal life and go out at the weekends.
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  Speaker 2: And I woke up one morning with a terrible hangover
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: and a baby crying in the room beyond, and it
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: was too much to bear. Well, I say it was
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: too much, but it caused me to question my intake,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: and I spent four years questioning I was, you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: having waters between wines and even like doing stupid things
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  Speaker 2: like eating a fish on a Friday to try and
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: get rid of my hangovers. I was trying all the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Old wives tales. I never considered once actually stopping drinking.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: But the problem with that was that when I was hungover,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I carried a lot of shame. For the first time ever,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: having a baby was a massive consequence to my very
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: normal drinking habit, and it showed me that I wasn't
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: functional on a Sunday morning. Hence the book's called A
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Thousand Wasted Sundays was because I wasn't able to function
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and take care of my child. And that struggle went
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: on for four years where I'd go out with great,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: great sort of thoughts that I'm going to be the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: best drink in the world, and I'm going to go
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: home after one. But of course when I had that one,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: my inhibitions were out of the window and I was
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: ordering a tray of shots. That's just the sort of
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: person I am. And you know, somebody might call me
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic, but I don't put myself in that box.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I'd say I was someone that struggled with an alcohol
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: use disorder. But it took me a long time to
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: realize that. In fact, I had to have another baby,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: and after she was born six weeks afterwards, realized I
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't solving my own problems on my own, and I
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: walked into the land and I said to my husband,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore. I need help. And that
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: was the moment everything changed.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I've got to know what is your husband. It's John,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: isn't it your husband?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what did he.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Think as you were writing the book? Did he ever
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: say to you, Vica, it's pretty revealing. Do you really
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: need to tell that story? Did he ask you to
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: pull it back at any point or did he just say,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to your life, it's your story.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: He knew I was never going to pull it back.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: And actually I was asked this question on my book
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: launch recently. Somebody said, you know, what does your husband think?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And I said to the audience, who here cares what
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: their husband thinks? We were like, there you go, there's
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: your answer. I mean, I think when I sat down
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: to write the book, never in a million years did
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I imagine everyone reading it. I just thought, well, I'm
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: going to write this. I need to get this story
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: out of it. Therapy. Writing is a form of therapy
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: for me, and I knew that I could make people
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: laugh with all my kind of ridiculous tales, but perhaps
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: be able to help some people along the way by
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: people tuning into something that they never normally would like
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: yourself because of the humor and because of the honesty.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And that's what happened. So it's brutally honest, because literally,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I never imagined in a million years that anybody would
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: sit you know, read my inside my brain about my life.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it made it a much more real and
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: you know, more interesting and tangible story because of that.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Victoria Vnstone is the author of A thousand Wasted Sundays. Victoria,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: what's your reaction to things like there's memes all over
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the place mummy wine, tyme beer, a clock. There's all
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: sorts of comments and ideas around this. What are your
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: general thoughts from a sort of I guess a sociological perspective.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I was a perfect candidate for that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: You know, this transition from party girl to mum. It
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: made me quite vulnerable. They're pinking drinks, for example, which
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: is when you put rose in a pink can to
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: make it look like it's a nice drink from mum
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: who's got a new baby. So actually they're targeting people
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: like me, and I was the perfect person to be
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: targeted because I did struggle. I've gone from traveling all
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: over the world and being independent to being stuck at
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: home on my own with beige walls and a baby
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: crying in my arms, and obviously I found it quite dull.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be one hundred percent honest with you,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: that transition. I wasn't prepared for it. So therefore alcohol
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: became an answer for me and mummy wine time, that
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: wine down and reward at the end of the day
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: hit the right dopamine for me, and I was like,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: oh right, I've worked really hard. I deserve a glass
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: of wine. Here's the baby to my husband, I'm going
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to sit and have a glass of wine in the evening.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: And I never questioned the messaging that that was giving.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I know now looking back that drinking in front of children,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: it kind of gives them a message. You know, I
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: need to drink to deal with you. I need to
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: drink to deal with your behavior. You are stressing me out,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: so therefore mummy needs to numb out. And I look
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: back and think, gosh, I'm so glad that my kids
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: were so young when I gave up drinking, because I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: realized now it was really bad messaging. And it was
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: exactly the messaging that I was given as a child
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: which led me to become an drinker. And I think
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: when you're growing up and looking up to your peers
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: or your parents in particular, your spongy little child brain
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: is absorbing everything, and like me, my kids would have
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: equated fun having a glass of wine. So I'm glad
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that I've been the cycle breaker, and I hope you
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: know I'm not silly justin. I'm sure my children may
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: drink as they get older. I've got three little kids,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: one of them's turning thirteen. But I feel with me quitting.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'm nearly eight years sober now that perhaps I didn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: have a choice about alcohol as I grew up, and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping that my children do so.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Fitting in is a really big deal. I mean, Australian
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: culture so much of it is centered around the opportunity
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to drink alcohol. Over the years, I've faced enormous pressure
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: from fully grown adults who just can't comprehend that I
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: would go out and say, actually, no, I'm not drinking.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I don't drink alcohol. I just think it's bizarre. I've
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: had fully grown like people in their forties and fifties
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and sixties doing everything I can to either course or
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: even trick me into consuming alcohol. I just don't drink.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: What I'd love to know is when you look at
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the social pressure around drinking, both for us and for
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: our kids, let's just stay with us for now. How
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: much of mummy wine time culture do you think is
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: actually about fitting in versus genuinely wanting to drink.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you, justin that this is a
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: cultural issue where we think we have to drink to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: fit in. But things are changing. Even in the time
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: that I've been sober. I think people worry what other
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: people's reactions are going to be. And I think we've
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: spent so many years of our lives, you know, dependent
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: on the opinions of others. And something that is wonderful
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that comes along with sobriety is that you start to
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: have boundaries and really care about yourself, which is something
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I never did. I never realized in this equation of
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: life that I mattered, and that my opinions mattered, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: that how I take care of myself matters, and how
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: that ripples on through my family. It's been a real
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: adjustment since I had therapy to understand that it's okay
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: for me to say no and stand my ground in
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: social situations. And actually, there is nothing more empowering now
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: for me than stepping into one of those situations where
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: you know, a mother's group and everybody's having a glass
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of wine and going here I am, I'm owning it,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: and I don't drink anymore. And things are changing in
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: a way that you know, people used to try and
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: twist my elbow and say, oh, you're boring, what's wrong
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: with you? And that's not happening as much anymore. In fact,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: people are so much more aware of the impact on
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: mental health from drinking lots of alcohol that they're a
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: bit more like, well, well done, you know, well done.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Here's a pat on the back. You're doing a great thing.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And actually now people question me. Instead of going what
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: are you doing, they say why are you doing it?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Which is a really lovely turnaround.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Certainly, Statistically, the numbers show that people are less
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: inclined to drink today than at any point since we've
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: had research on this, that the pressure is definitely declining,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and it's been some time since anyone's given me a
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: hard time. Generally, it's more of a oh, good on you. Yeah,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I remember I did dry July, or I did sober October,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: or I did whatever, and I felt better than I've
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: ever felt when I gave up drinking. There's more articles
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in the press about giving up drinking than ever before,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: but it still persists. Here's probably maybe the last question
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to wrap up our conversation. For parents who are listening
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to this and thinking maybe I should look at my
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: relationship with alcohol, but they're not ready to start using
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the word sober or teetotaler or I've given up drinking,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: what would you say to them? I mean, this is
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: not a conversation to convince the whole world to dry out,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: but rather to question their drinking. Scott Galloway, who has
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a very famous podcast, has been quoted as saying, from
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: his point of view, he just wants to make sure
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that alcohol gives more to him than it takes from him,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and if it's giving him more than it's taken, then
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: he's happy with the equation there. How do you talk
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to people about this when they start to strike up
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: these discussions with you.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I'd say, not about how much you drink. It's about
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: your own mental relationship with alcohol. If that's going awry,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: then it's you're worthy of seeking out support. And also
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: we forget that it's not really about alcohol. It's about
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: who you were before it and who comes after it.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: That's really the journey. But also if you're someone that's
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: waking up on a Sunday morning, questioning your behavior the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: night before and perhaps have a bit of a blackout
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: or you're really hungover or suffering from anxiety. We kind
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: of let that go as being part of the drinking,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, well, I'm hungover, and we normalize
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: the feeling of being hungover, and actually that hangover is
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: a siren blaring in your face. This isn't working for you,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: This is not working. And for me it was really hard.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I kind of fell through the gaps because I wasn't
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that extreme drinker and I was this gray area drinker
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: where a lot of people don't get seen because they
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: don't feel like their problems got bad enough to be
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: deserving a professional help. So what I will say is
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: that no matter how much you drink or how it's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: making you feel, you are worthy of reaching out for
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: some level of support. There's so much out there nowadays,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: whether it's a book, a podcast, therapy or AA it
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter how much you drink.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: If drinking is not working, it is worthy of reaching
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: out and finding out. You are now sober curious. This
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: is this lovely term that's kind of been coined by
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a lady called Ruby Warrington about ten years ago, and
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it's for anyone who's questioning their alcohol intake. You are
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: now sober curious, and it's not this big word like alcoholic.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: It's more like a warm hug that's going to go.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: It's okay to question, and actually it means you're on
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the right path to bettering yourself and your mental health.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Victoria Venstone is the author of A Thousand Wasted Sundays
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and Mumming, the memoir about a life in the year
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of am I'm trying to get better, Victoria, as always,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: just love the conversations, love you're insights, and love your
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: generosity and willingness to share. Thank you, Thank you.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Justin.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Like this one, share it Let your friends know.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I think that anything that can make your family happier
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: is worth sharing around. Just click those buttons. It takes
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: about ten seconds and share the Happy Families podcast. We
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: will link to Victoria's books in the show notes, as
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: well as her podcast Sober Awkward. If you'd like more
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: info about making your family happier, check out Happy families
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: dot com dot a You