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Movilidad Renovable · Movilidad Renovable

• 0:03
  Son News and the Mobility, the platform program for renewable fuels very good afternoon.
• 0:50
  I believe that in the programmes that we have been making clear an important
• 0:55
  role that these renewable fuels have for decarbonisation. In addition, we have been
• 1:02
  able to verify in the analysis that we have done to several sectors that for
• 1:07
  some it is almost the only alternative for the road transport sector, the maritime
• 1:12
  sector, also the aerial one as an alternative to the fossils, because in
• 1:17
  this space today we will analyze its importance. From another point of view,
• 1:19
  the role they will play for light vehicles, what function they will have in
• 1:23
  this decarbonization process and, above all, the importance that nothing needs to be
• 1:27
  changed safely, perhaps the routine of refuelling on another hose, but within the
• 1:33
  same filling station. Well, we are going to talk about all this in
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  the next few minutes in renewable mobility, the program of the platform for renewable
• 1:51
  fuels, Renewable mobility with Miguel San Martín and, before starting, three brief
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  notes of action olity, because, as an example, the Popular Party has
• 2:02
  registered a proposal of law in Congress with which it proposes to resort to biofuels
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  and renewable gases for planes in the energy transition towards a decarbonized economy. Judgment
• 2:14
  that, if the aim is to decarbonise air transport, I do not embark,
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  the only way to do so is with renewables. And precisely in this
• 2:21
  sense, Emirates has already received SAFF sustainable aviation fuel from the company sell at
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  the London airport of Hirro more than three zero metric tons that will be supplied
• 2:32
  to the infrastructure of refuel Gedera airport until the end of the summer. This
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  is the first time this airline will use SAFF to power its flights in London
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  and represents the largest desaft volume ever purchased. And the last point here in
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  Spain, the Association of manufacturers of generators and emitters of Calor FJEK has presented
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  a report of the sector of the leadership corresponding to two thousand twenty- three
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  and says that the challenge is to accelerate the energy transition and reduce emissions in
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  buildings, and that leads to the modification and elaboration of regulations that seek to
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  reduce the dependence on fossil fuels. This concludes that renewables and hybrid systems are
• 3:08
  key to their decarbonization. The renewable mobility meeting begins and, as I told
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  you today, we are going to talk about light vehicles and the role of
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  renewable fuels in their decarbonization, as it is always with us, without it
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  being cardinal that the platform for renewable fuels. And it is not very good
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  that such hello Miguel a pleasure as always and accompany us. I begin on
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  my left, Sergio Crespo, who is the technical director of Ansdor, who
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  is the patroness of the two wheels. Let' s say about the bikes,
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  Sergio how very good you are to the quadrid cycles and other things is
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  that my country, last night more riaño, always tells me when I talk
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  to him. Jesús Casanova is a professor of technical engines by the Universidad Polotécnica
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  de Madrid and Jesús how about accompanying us for days and we have in Valencia.
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  Bernardo Tormos is a professor at the Polytechnic University of Valencia and secretary of
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  the Department of Machines and Technical Motors of the Research Institute that I am Professor
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  Bernardo how very good hello good afternoon, that such very well. So,
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  inés, ask us a little bit where we are going to go in this
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  great program today Miguel, because as always we have a luxury program, as
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  you have seen, as these listeners have seen in the presentation of the guests,
• 4:50
  because today it is, as you said, at the beginning of seeing
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  that, although we want to relegate renewable fuels to those sectors that cannot be
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  lecrisified, such as aviation the marine one, since from the platform for renewable
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  fuels, we are convinced that also in light vehicles can play a very important
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  role, especially to accelerate the reduction of missions that I believe during the program
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  we will see that with this commitment to lectrification, what we are doing is
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  delaying it precisely. And for another thing that is fundamental, that is to
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  give an opportunity, to give a solution to all users, to all sectors
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  according to their needs. There are many users who will continue to depend on
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  a vehicle with a combustion engine, a motorcycle from a truck. Of course,
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  as we have talked about in others, but in this case of a
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  light vehicle, a small delivery van, a car that cannot be changed because
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  you cannot buy an electric vehicle. So, well, today I think we
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  ' re going to see what role renewable fuels can play, that role,
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  that possibility. That And in the end I talked to Jesus myself before going
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  into the economic issue and the broadcasts of CEO two, which seems to be
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  setting targets that are not necessarily achievable. On the other hand, Jesus also
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  said that CEO two is not the cause of all the evils of the world
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  either. Well, it' s causing some. It' s worth some
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  world over all present futures. We are still beginning to see it, but
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  the future is clear that the world is going to move to reduce emissions globally
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  in all sectors, the automobile between them. Then there is, evidently,
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  the oak of pollution of cities, which is a different world, which is
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  confused many times and now at the media level. Above all, there are
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  difficulties in explaining it. Good. That' s good. I believe that
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  these programmes also help to make it easier to understand the world we are talking
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  about is problem two, mainly greenhouse gases rather than pollution of cities. Professor,
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  I return how you start and how we have that situation As for the
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  emissions and the context that we find, there will be good, as Jesus
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  commented, we have a problem on a global level the transport more or less
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  following a bit of a zon rulo called the English, a rule, a
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  little general nemotechnic, more or less the transport can represent about thirty- two
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  percent of the emissions of ceo two. In particular, road transport is the
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  most important part. We will be about seventy- five percent and light vehicles,
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  motorcycle cars could account for about sixty- five percent of these emotions.
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  It is therefore quite important to say within what is its contribution to benefit or
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  potentially reduce or potentially increase these emissions. Okay, I think we should broadcast.
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  One of the things that we came from transmitting is that the solution or
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  the miniration. We' d say about this possible problem. It comes not
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  only from a silver bullet, a unique absolute that can contribute, but we
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  must not discard any kind of taxpayer or potential solution that can help achieve the
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  objectives that are intended. Therefore, it is important not to comment before because
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  we do not close ourselves to possible alternatives and in this case, renewable fuels
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  could be a partial solution or a contribution to the ultimate objective that we can
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  achieve. And, as a representative of light vehicles, Sergio is also going
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  to that zero emissions, but noble fuels also for motorcycles is a perfectly valid
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  option. When he talked about it with Jesús La a little bit earlier talking
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  about the age of the park that you can' t all afford to buy
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  an electric car of technology, but you have renewable fuels to contribute to that
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  reduction of emission stations. In the case of motorcycles, also that I do
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  not know if the park is as old as in cars, of course it
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  is important and, in fact, the bike park is even older than the
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  park of passenger cars in Spain today and it is very important and as Inés
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  said in the introduction that seems when talking about how renewable fuels, much is
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  talked about is focused on shipping, on maritime. But for us, as
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  a light vehicle sector, what is the motorcycle and the vehicles around the tricycle
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  bike, the quadricycles see it as a perfectly viable alternative of the future and
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  that will coexist. We are sure with the whole subject of lectrification, because
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  when we talk about the concept of motorcycle, we speak from a small scooter
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  for urban area that will not make more than forty kilometers per day in small
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  squares. But we are also talking about motorcycles with greater travel, for example,
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  those carried by the Civil Guard of trophic or other type of vehicles that
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  today, by size and design, it is impossible to equate in employment stations
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  with electrical technology, for example, you give me of future and also of
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  present, because it is a technology that we already have now to be able
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  to employ, to be able to use Yes, of course, in fact,
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  well, we know that right now gasoline carries certain percentage of as a
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  renewable star and to that in what is development, For example, there are
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  clear cases as in competition. Right now, forty percent of the fuel used
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  in MotoGP is already as a renewable style. Two thousand twenty- seven will
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  be one hundred percent. In the end it is the perfect testing ground to
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  then move that technology to the street. Yes, because I think what we
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  were saying at the beginning is not, this is not a war between technologies.
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  Here all those who can contribute to television should be taken into account and
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  here perhaps we can be better illustrated by Professors Casanova and Tormos, because one
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  thing that is not normally said is that the combustion engine can be as climate
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  neutral as the electric vehicle. No. The point is, we have to
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  change the way we feed it. You don' t have to demonize the
• 11:00
  mode of combustion itself and here they think they can explain this much better not,
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  but I think the engine is often wrong with the fuel it feeds on.
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  Indeed. In fact, Professor Tor Moyo read an article in which he
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  started with a question and says why it is necessary to continue developing combustion engines
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  to fight the climate crisis in Gorbal From the perspective of transport, that is,
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  it was quite established. We would say in the cultural doing of people
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  that combustion engines. The combustion engine vehicle has the exhaust pipe. It emits
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  and, of course, is associated with this problem, something that does not
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  appear, for example, electric vehicles. But it is true that it must
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  be borne in mind that in the end, when we use conventional fossil fuels,
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  that fuel was originally in the subsoil, is extracted with oil, is
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  transformed into when it burns we would say that product resulting from that combustion of
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  ceo two is emitted into the atmosphere, where it was not before. So,
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  it' s a net positive balance of that ugly two over the atmosphere.
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  But if somehow we are able either by renewable biomass origin or by source
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  of cc or two capture treatment and conversion with the use of hydrogen into fuel
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  very similar to conventional fossil fuels when we burn that fuel is still emitted so
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  two, but the net balance is zero or very low. I remember this
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  one. We' re not providing a c or two that was already in
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  the atmosphere. Therefore, we would say that is where the mentality changes and
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  that is where we can contribute. Let' s say one important contribution to
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  solving this problem is that there is a problem that is often confused in society
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  and is foolish. But I' m gonna say it' s sweet.
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  What I' m going to say, but it' s not nonsense is
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  ugly two. With the ugly one there are two gases or it' s
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  called ceo two and another one called ugly. The ugly one is tremendously toxic
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  and then it' s very difficult. Many times we don' t explain
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  well that the ugly one is very toxic. Also cities and fo two is
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  not toxic does not pollute anything. It' s a greenhouse gas. I
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  think the English say it clearly GHG greenhous Gars is a greenhouse gas. Well,
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  the ugly two, obviously, I' m going to issue it for
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  your escape. I cannot help but emit it in a combustion process with the
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  exception of hydrogen silt that would not emit, but in myth two presence.
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  It has been prefixed by a plant or a plant or a hydrogen system or
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  a system of any kind that has taken fegos from the atmosphere, which makes
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  me jealous of the atmosphere and then you will smell for your escape. The
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  balance is neutral and that I think is what is behind everyone called renewable combustions.
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  It' s renewable. That word, renewable means that that ugly two
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  that I am emitting that I will not be able to avoid, to emit
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  for your escape I have previously taken it from the atmosphere and, therefore,
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  the balance must be null. We even have to say negative, but well,
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  that' s already debatable, of course, because in this balance sheet
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  that you' re talking about, because it' s also important to say
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  that clear vehicle zero missions doesn' t exist, because just like we have
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  to take into account only in the combustion engine, emissions from the exhaust pipe
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  to somehow discard it. In this decarbonization process, we are not taking into
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  account all the emissions that the electric vehicle has associated, since from the extraction
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  of minerals until you manufacture, the battery, etcetera. No. Therefore,
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  I think that Professor Tormos said before is that there is no silver bullet is
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  that the challenge is so important and so difficult to achieve that if we do
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  not use all the technologies, because what we said is that we are delaying.
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  We were talking about the average age of motorcycles, Sergio said earlier,
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  but that of cars that last year the most sold vehicle was the vehicle of
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  more than fifteen years. I think it has to make us think again a
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  little, as we are proposing the decarbonisation of light transport. Indeed, Sergio,
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  yes, that is to say completely in agreement, that is at the
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  end of fact, the whole subject of this perception that commented inés of the
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  carbon impact of the different technologies. I think it' s going to change
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  a little, because it' s already being regulated, there' s already
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  a lot of talk about the impact of carbon huayacat on all processes, including
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  from an electric vehicle, any or any other type of industry in general.
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  Since the beginning of this raw material action is throughout the useful life all that
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  footprint impact of ugly. Two then, each application, each industry can have
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  its technologies to reach those. It is a goal and in the end it
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  is the science of technology that will tell us what is the best solution for
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  each case and what it would take professor to get to know these technologies more.
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  We were already talking about the investment that the vehicles have made of a
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  book three or four nine euros six, which has nothing to do with what
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  can be done at best the administrations within that road map so that it is
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  in the end more real the CONs go the emissions. Zero good. I
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  think there are things that are being done, but very directed towards the electric
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  vehicle, and I am not against electric vehicle. I want to say what
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  I stand for is that those things that are being done in favour of electric
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  baseball should also be done in favour of other fuels and other solutions that are
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  that they can be equally neutral or as carbon neutral as the electric vehicle,
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  but that are based on making fuels that are equal to fossils, but whose
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  ceo two has not been in the subsoil for millions of years, but that
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  we are taking the atmosphere into that concept that can be done by the kind
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  of supports, as is always done technologically, politically supporting technologies, but not
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  just one. That is what some see is and I am not against it.
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  Get the electric viccolo. I probably don' t have it, but
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  I still buy it I mean, it' s not being against it.
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  It is to be seen that there is a certain error in the European Union
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  ' s approach, which is focused only on supporting the electric cycle and not
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  on other solutions that would make it easier for everyone who has a vehicle already
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  and the vehicles they are buying will now last at least ten years and hundreds
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  of thousands of kilometers. It is the miscs that will have to continue to
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  work and will continue to issue towards two obvious solutions, with the costs that
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  they have or what we can discuss a little later, but, obviously,
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  it would be metror a combustil that is not fossil to remove and it is
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  very interesting what you have said before. I think I see it too,
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  and I also saw it the other day in a question that you asked my
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  students in amazing fourth grade class and asked them why they thought the European Union
• 17:26
  was against internal combustion vehicles. Well, more than fifty percent have told me
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  to cosime fossil fuel. I say clear, but notice that I, after
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  a whole course of teaching, have not understood me and there was taste it
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  was possible that the fossil or non- fossil, that is, does not
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  necessarily have to be fossil because it is internal combustion. And this is what
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  I say that transmitted society and politicians from Spain, but everything in the European
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  Union works and the same happens in its faculty, in autórmos or state.
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  No yes, well, I quite agree with what begins with Professor Casanova.
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  I believe that there is a lack of knowledge at the social level, just
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  as it has always been thought that electrics did not pollute, because, well,
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  as they were plugged into PARED, electricity from PARED is supposed to arrive
• 18:15
  directly. Of course, there is a production which, moreover, can also
• 18:18
  be with coal. In many cases it remains or with other types of fossil
• 18:22
  fuels, and therefore we would say that it does have a part of contribution
• 18:27
  to the generation of fossil fuels in the atmosphere, because, as I said,
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  we would say it is an alternative, it is a solution for certain
• 18:41
  fields or for certain specific parts or concrete solutions and therefore we would say we
• 18:45
  should not lose the capacity and we should not miss the opportunity to take advantage
• 18:52
  of that capacity and achieve the corresponding reduction that is associated with this yes,
• 18:56
  because, as we were saying, no, if it is a feasible alternative,
• 19:00
  100 per cent renewable fuels are already being marketed. We see that they
• 19:04
  make that vehicle, that combustion engine, climate neutral, because we are promoting,
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  as prodro casanovas said, putting it in the same situation, in the
• 19:14
  same situation as an electric vehicle, letting it compete with other alternatives, because
• 19:18
  we would start to reduce emissions already and gradually, because what you said at
• 19:22
  the beginning is that these nual fuels are compatible with the current park, they
• 19:27
  are compatible with all the infrastructure of logistics, storage, with the service stations
• 19:30
  are refueled exactly like a fossil fuel, not to mention all the advantages that
• 19:37
  they have in others, that we have analyzed other programs and that we will
• 19:41
  continue like the circular economy, etc. But what we would be doing is
• 19:45
  speeding up the reduction of emissions rather than slowing it down, which is what
• 19:48
  is happening, of course. And besides, with regard to the objectives,
• 19:52
  I don' t know which one of us was commenting on it. If
• 19:56
  there were so many electric cars within two thousand thirty. Which is nothing is
• 20:00
  that we would have to go back to coal to produce the electricity that would
• 20:03
  need so much electric car. It is that there is no capacity in renewables
• 20:06
  right now in Spain and it is one of the most advanced countries, much
• 20:10
  less in others in Eastern Europe, to supply the electricity that cars need.
• 20:17
  Professor that Sonova. That is one point and then another that I wanted to
• 20:19
  point out about the costs as well. You said the costs well. Currently
• 20:23
  the cost of the Petrole dirias is very cheap. You can go up and
• 20:29
  down when the oil goes up, but it' s very cheap if we
• 20:32
  think about it with this almost ultimate gasoline, just like water or less not
• 20:37
  and it' s not a expensive thing a fossil fuel. Obviously, this
• 20:38
  is going to be amputable again, not because it is renewable. It can
• 20:42
  be more expensive a season because there are no large fuel refineries, there are
• 20:48
  no large volumes and then that can make it more expensive. But I think
• 20:52
  society has to assume it. I mean, it' s obvious that contributing
• 20:56
  to the ugly down two, the society would have to assume that maybe in
• 21:00
  a moment it' s a little more expensive than fuel. This is a
• 21:02
  very complex issue, because politics enters by means of politics. I want to
• 21:06
  lower the fuels like crazy down, to look good, because they lower the
• 21:10
  combustibles and lower the infer cost in life. But this is already a more
• 21:11
  complicated war. But it' s because of the issue that it' s
• 21:15
  expensive. Today, making a renewable fuel more expensive than one carries the oil,
• 21:18
  but yes, but okay, but also tax exemptions that go entirely with
• 21:25
  you can enter. Of course, of course, of course, it seemed
• 21:29
  what it costs in that sense, which will be cheaper than perhaps aid being
• 21:33
  given to other types of energy. Yes, of course, I have come
• 21:38
  out of there the taxes of that war I no longer enter and as we
• 21:44
  saw in some previous program Miguel, in the end, as we climb production,
• 21:48
  because the costs will be reduced and what we have to do is to
• 21:52
  boost this production from the regulation, because right now the opposite is being done.
• 21:56
  No yes, it is in the end the scala economy, which is
• 22:03
  a fundamental factor and like all technologies, in the beginning, as they democratize,
• 22:08
  because they begin more expensive, but according to the market, demands are
• 22:11
  established, because in the end the accounts come out. Here we also have
• 22:15
  the advantage, as we rightly said that infrastructure is not something difficult to adapt
• 22:23
  and the existing technology of vehicles. It is therefore to be hoped that in
• 22:26
  not relatively long time, this economic balance can be achieved, like everything new
• 22:36
  when you want a change. In the end we need political will and certain
• 22:41
  aids that can go, as you said, in the form of taxation or
• 22:47
  in other ways, so that all the agents of the chain can adapt themselves
• 22:49
  to this as well. But in the end, more than that, above
• 22:53
  all, I believe that what is needed is political security, that all the
• 22:57
  actors involved in it are not afraid to invest all the necessary resources in development
• 23:06
  towards these technologies and to have a clear scenario where this technology of how I
• 23:11
  am reNova Luis will be able to develop and live in Europe without problem,
• 23:17
  with being Tormos. Yeah, there' s not much wrong to say.
• 23:21
  I fully agree with what you have said, that is, it is a
• 23:23
  viable, feasible alternative that can become competitive from a cost point of view.
• 23:30
  Let us take into account what they have said, that is, we have
• 23:33
  an infrastructure that we do not have to do, that is to say,
• 23:37
  that is the electrical part, because there is still a lot to do that
• 23:38
  I do not say it is not done. I insist it happens to me
• 23:41
  like the rest of us. I' m not against it, obviously,
• 23:44
  the electric vehicle, it has its market, it has its es. A
• 23:45
  solution, a part of the solution too, but we must not miss this
• 23:49
  opportunity. I insist on the issue of cost, which may now be perhaps
• 23:55
  the main limitation, because well, we will solve it as there is economy
• 23:59
  of scale and that we would say the use facilitates, we would say that
• 24:06
  drop in prices and it will become more and more competitive. But also,
• 24:07
  the other factor that pointed to the teacher, who is new with his students
• 24:11
  to the best, also the dissemination, the knowledge that they exist. Yeah.
• 24:18
  Obviously, society must know that this alternative exists and that it is feasible
• 24:22
  and feasible. Of course, this program would have or this initiative is framed
• 24:30
  within that communication and that dissemination by fool seems perfect to me. Yes,
• 24:36
  he seemed to make a comment because of course it is true that sometimes we
• 24:40
  say that infrastructure serves. It serves aside talking to you stealables, perhaps you
• 24:44
  have dealt with it and not in other programs. I don' t know,
• 24:47
  sure, it' s very broad. No yes, then, obviously,
• 24:48
  we have to be renewable, which would be to replace gasoline with a
• 24:52
  gasoline that would be called gasoline, which would be almost the same formulation as
• 24:56
  gasoline, but whose origin would be vegetable matter or diesel other. You laugh
• 25:00
  at other fuels say good. There is, therefore, a hbo which is
• 25:03
  the same as a diesel, an electrofuel that is the same as a gas
• 25:07
  oil. There are many uses are the same. There are others who don
• 25:08
  ' t. Of course, obviously, it' s like renewing pure hydrogen.
• 25:11
  We already have to change the technology of the engine and the supply,
• 25:15
  that is to say, but here is one that is what I see,
• 25:18
  which is that we don' t have to change anything. And that'
• 25:19
  s what' s very attractive. That' s why I said it.
• 25:22
  There are other astrologies or if you get into biomethane, okay, because you
• 25:23
  have to change a biogas vehicle. And now we' ve been testing ourselves
• 25:27
  in our lab with a biogas vehicle, which is a methane me vehicle from
• 25:30
  natural gas and goes with biomethane. It' s already been a hundred and
• 25:34
  eleven thousand kilometers. We continuously analyze it, we mount it, the engine
• 25:37
  looks and it goes perfect. I mean, it doesn' t matter if
• 25:41
  you use biomethane that you saw gas than natural gas forgives and they' re
• 25:44
  obvious. Methane is a pure 100% obial gas. It is not indeed,
• 25:48
  as Professor Casanova said, within the label renewable fuels. We talked about
• 25:52
  a lot of technologies, but, well, what we talked about before.
• 25:53
  The reality is that today it is already being commercialized for both professionals and individuals,
• 25:57
  for light vehicles, both gasoline and diesel 100% renewable, absolutely compatible
• 26:03
  with the current park, with infrastructures. And so well, then, and
• 26:07
  that there is also to finish that we have two little sergio minutes left in
• 26:10
  the motorcycle sector, which contributes a lot to the mobility of the city,
• 26:14
  because of course it has nothing to do with what imitates a car with a
• 26:17
  person, that a motorcycle with a person is an alternative in which, on
• 26:22
  the one hand, if the use of the two wheels is encouraged, we
• 26:26
  already reduce emissions and with renewable fuels even more because in that sense it allows
• 26:33
  a lot less. As I said, that is in the end they are
• 26:36
  single- person or bipersonal transport vehicles, not in many cases, but the
• 26:41
  data of Madrid, of the cars with a person is yes, yes,
• 26:45
  tremendous, but good in the flesh, in the case of the mota,
• 26:47
  in the end small size and weight, reduced emissions, that is right now,
• 26:51
  there are already in the market motorcycles that with less than two liters,
• 26:55
  that is, a consumption of less than two liters to make a hundred kilometers,
• 26:59
  that is even this they do also with what the cost of renewable fuels
• 27:02
  starts to be more expensive. But in the end it is that today'
• 27:04
  s bikes consume so little if we compare with the aged park that in the
• 27:10
  end they are ways to balance and, as we said before, also Jesus
• 27:15
  what a car emits now has nothing to do with what a car emitted before.
• 27:18
  The technical effort and on top of it we put all fuels, because
• 27:22
  it remains rather minimal. Yeah, yeah, that' s right. That
• 27:25
  ' s true. Of course, veneer or two, of course. I
• 27:27
  think there' s one thing that might sell it. To be sure with
• 27:32
  me is very curious. I think it is that it was in a minute
• 27:34
  to but cars is that less consume the world. I end up saying,
• 27:37
  it was the two- year- olds' car, two thousand to,
• 27:38
  two thousand to two, the ten l' s that' s what I
• 27:41
  ' m accusing of in the world, no one either. But it was
• 27:42
  emitting in urban pollution. Of course, we have that solved with renewable fuels
• 27:47
  and it is not Cardinal Sergio Crespo, Jesús Casanova and Bernardo Tormos. Thank
• 27:51
  you so much. For being with us, for also teaching us a little
• 27:56
  bit about these issues and until another next goose. Thank you very much to
• 28:00
  the three g inés until next Thursday. Perfect. Thank you very much,
• 28:06
  good afternoon you respond goodbye to Madrid, one hundred and three two FM.
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