Latest / The Breakfast Club / Black Maternal Health Week: What Every Woman Needs to Know (Part 1)

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Black Maternal Health Week: What Every Woman Needs to Know (Part 1) · The Breakfast Club

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, y'all.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Is Laurena Rosa with the latest with Laurena Rosa on
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• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, listen, you don't want to miss this.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if you don't lie about that.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Right, Hey, y'all, what's up.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: It's Lauren LaRosa and this is another episode of the
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Latest with Laura l Rosa. This is your daily dig
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: of all things pop culture, entertainment, news, and all of
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the conversations that shake the room.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Baby.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Now, today we are in conversation with an amazing woman
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: who I was just introduced to because it is Black
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Maternal Health Week and in being so, I wanted to
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: bring you guys some information. Now I know my lowriders
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the podcast community, we have people of all ages, men,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: women who listen to us. But I think that this
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: is always a great life learning space to have when
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: you couple education, pop culture.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: And real conversation. So joining me right now, Miss Latham Thomas.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: How are you.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm blessed. I'm really blessed, and I'm really really
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: happy to be here with you. You know, in conversation
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: with you today. I am really excited that you said, yes,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I know it was kind of last minute, but this
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: is what you do, Okay, you are the expert here.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: This is what we do. I'm so used to it
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: so much. My life was spent on the go serving
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: as a doula, and so babies come on their birthdays
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and so some things are last minute. So I just
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity and for us to be able to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: have this important conversation. So thanks for having me today.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know, I didn't even think about the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: fact that, like, yeah, babies come on their birthdays and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the birthdays or.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Sometimes not always the day it is supposed to be.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So you're used to kind of just like getting up,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: going and getting a job done.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's right, That's right.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: So tell us a bit about you your work, what
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: you do in Mama Glow. We see you know the
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: signage behind you.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yes. So I'm here actually at our headquarters in Brooklyn,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: New York. My name is Latham Thomas. I'm the founder
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: of a global manturnal health and education platform called Mama Glow.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We train doulahs, nurse care managers, work with hospital systems
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and care teams to improve maternal health for black women.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: As we think about this work, it is it's a
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: global mission for us, but we understand that, you know,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: our sisters are suffering here in the United States, and
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: when we look at the statistics of black birthing individuals,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you know, black women are three to four times more
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: likely to die during childbirth or do to childbirth related
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: causes than white women are. And so we know that
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: there are systemic factors that are related to this and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: many things that we can actually solve for if we
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: just focus on improving that through our actions, right and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: so making sure that we make policy efforts to shift
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: this legislation, and also thinking about how we can do
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: this through things like programs for individuals, like we have
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: our DULA training program we have which trains individuals across
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the country to serve as non clinical care providers supporting families, right.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And that's a lot of what our work is focused
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: on is making sure that there's access, that there's education
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and tools so people can lean on and also so
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: that we can help them feel more confident when they're
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: navigating the birth space.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So you talked about black women being three to four
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: times more likely to die during childbirth compared to white women.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Are there, Like, you know, I hear these conversations a lot.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: You know, someone I grew up with back home with
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Delaware just recently shared that his wife, they were newly married,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: if not still engaged, but I believe newly married, died
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: during childbirth. Literally, Like I think it was about maybe
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: week or two ago. And it was so scary for
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: me because they had been I'd been following their like
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: they met, they got married, you know, their wedding proposal
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: and stuff had went viral, and she was pregnant and
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: then and everything seemed fine, and then that story happened,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, like, are there specific like reasons or
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you know, hereditary things that happened that cause that number
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: or to cause a death like that, or does it
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: randomly just happen like what happens why?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I would definitely not say it's random. What
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: we know is that sixty percent of maternal deaths are
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: actually preventable, and what we see as the main factor
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: is systemic racism. Right, So a lot of people are
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: going into the healthcare system, they're experiencing harm, and so
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that can be anything from coercion to neglect, having systems
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: be diminished or dismissed, and not feeling seen and heard,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and their experiences not being believed, and oftentimes when black
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: women aren't believed when they go in for health care support,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it means that viewer might be missing things that are
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: real factors that could be issues, but also things that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: could be fatal or lethal if not addressed right. Some
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of the factors that we typically see though when we're
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: thinking about risk factors from eternal deaths is people who
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: have blood disorders. High blood pressure is one that we
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: see frequently, and it shows up in pregnancy as preeclampsia,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: which is pregnancy induced hypertension. We sometimes see also dictational diabetes,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: which can be a risk factor also for a baby
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: that grows too big that could create a complicated birth
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: right which could result in a cesarean, but also other
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: complications for the baby's health like poor lung development and
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: things of that nature. We also see things like a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: placenta previa, which is the placenta which is the organ
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: that the body produces to essentially support the growing pregnancy,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: which it is lying against the cervix, which is the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: opening actually of the uterus into the vagina, the vaginal passageway, right,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: So if that's covering, then that also creates a risk
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: factor for birth and really precludes people to having a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: cesarean delivery. It also things like breech presentation, which shouldn't
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: be an issue, but for some people, depending on how
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: their baby is positioned inside the womb, there's risk factors
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: in with that as well. But what I would say
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  Speaker 1: the main thing for us to be thinking about is
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: the care providers that we're working with, our relationship with
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: them where we're delivering our babies. A lot of people
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  Speaker 1: jump straight to hospitals, right they think, okay, like I'm pregnant,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: now let me line up my care providers, and many
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: people just work with the guy ns that they've been
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: working with, like probably for most of their well woman care.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: And what I suggest people think about is, you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: really exploring your options, thinking about all of the types
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  Speaker 1: of options available to you. Your provider should be telling
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  Speaker 1: you about not only hospital births, but out of hospital
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: birth which could include home birth or birth centers, right
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and exploring those options. Many people are great candidates for
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a home birth delivery or for a birth center if
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  Speaker 1: they're a low risk right, And so thinking about this
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and knowing that you may be an individual who could
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  Speaker 1: have that type of experience where you have an autonomous
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: birth experience where you feel supported, but also where you
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  Speaker 1: feel like you can have control over your body and
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: also move outside of the confines of our hospitals that
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: are underserving black women in many cases. Yeah, great thing
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: that we should be thinking about. And so that means
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: birthing with midwives, right, and really think about what it
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: looks like to deliver what people who can offer this
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: kind of support where we are seen and heard and
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  Speaker 1: we feel a sense of belonging and also know that
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: someone's going to respect our rights in the process.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So when you talk about, you know, delivering outside of
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the hospital, I think the first thought that came to
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: my mind is like, I know that it's safe because
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I know people who have done it, But I still
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: would have so many questions about you know what that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: looks like, how is it safe?
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: You know, what are the differences, what are the pros,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: what are the cons?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's really personal, right, It's like every individual
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: has to think about what works for them, right. So
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: when I had my son, he's twenty two now, but
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: when I had him. I had delivered him in a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: birth center here in New York City, and just for
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: like some location for people who are on the East
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Posts or who know the city. There was a place
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that we used to all hang out at called Neel's,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: which was a nightclub and it became Darby in the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: up and down. So if you know that, then you
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: know next door to it was a birth center. Okay,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: so my son thinks he was born in a nightclub.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: But this is a great place because it had midwives.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: The midwives were incredible. They I met I think ten
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: different midwives in the course of the pregnancy for preatal appointments.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: How you experienced care there was so incredible, and they
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: had it set up. The burst center were set up
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like a home, so they had a kitchen, they had
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: three different rooms. They were set up like bedrooms, they
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: had skylights, they had huge jacuzzi tubs like it was
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: very comfortable and so burth censers are typically set up
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: like home environments so that you can have this hybrid
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: experience of delivering in what feels like a home, but
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: also having the clinical setting and the clinical sort of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: instruments available to you. The other difference is that in
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a birth center there is no pharmaceutical pain management, so
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: if you're looking for an epidural, you have to go
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to the hospital for that. Right, this is a place
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: where you're having non pharmaceutical pain relief.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: So all natural or there is pain relief.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: All natural woo. It's like prayers, affirmations. It's pain management
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: through through touch, through affirming, through support, and this is
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: where a douluk comes in to be so helpful in
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the physical support that's necessary during this time too. Right,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So I did it that way. It worked for me.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: It was a great experience and a different phase of
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: my life. Who knows what my options would look like,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you know at forty five, forty six, you know, having
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: a baby. But I definitely suggest people really take the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: time to explore, to ask questions. There's amazing technology out there.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: There's a there's an app called Earth that is like
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yelp for birth, which you can also look to see
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: what people have said about other practitioners. I just think
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: being resource is really important and also knowing what questions
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to add ask and how to prepare yourself in what's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: called shared decision making. Right, what's supposed to happen is
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: that you're in dialogue with your providers making decisions together,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: not someone telling you this is what's about to happen. Right.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: The more you asking questions them, sharing information and you
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: making a decision, that decision to feel like one that
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you feel comfortable with, and you have the right that
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: even if you've made a decision to revoke consent. Right,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So it's really important to understand the consent model when
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you go into the healthcare system and getting adequate information
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to make sure you can make health care decisions, but
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: also know that if you change your mind, you have
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a right to do that. And so many of us
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: don't believe that, and things happen that feel outside of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: our control, and sometimes we don't feel like we have
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the courage or even the language to help roll it back.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: And to make sure people understand that, we developed a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: tool on Mama Glow with ETNA called the Shared Decison
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Making Toolkit, and this is an amazing resource. It's a
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: digital resource that people can download for free amamagot dot
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: com and it allows you to have from pregnancy through
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: postpartum and beyond all the information that you need to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: really navigate this transition. There's also a birth plan in
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: there to help you talk about what you want in
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: your birth process with your providers. So there's so many
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: amazing tools to utilize with this kit, and so I
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: think like resources like that are also really important for
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: people to be able to take in to share with
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: their providers and work on. It's almost like having a journal, right,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: but you work on with your provider, and we launch
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that with ETNA, and their nurses also use it internally.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So these are things that I feel like, you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: we can solve for, but that we need every single
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: day to make efforts to advance maternal health through better
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: access to obviously maternal health resources, better providers, right, making
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: sure that we have more providers of color and black providers. Specifically,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about obgyns, there's about every seven thousand
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: or so and less than two percent of them are black, right,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: same with now there's about fourteen thousand, less than two
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: percent are black. This is really by design, right, And
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: so when you think about if there's people who don't
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: look like you who are doing this work and don't
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: consider you or don't if you think about it, Lauren, like,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: we're we can reach back to people in our lifetime
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: who were seen as not even human, right, Like, you know,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: we can reach back generationally to family members right who
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: had to live through Jim Crow terror. Right. And so
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: think about what that means within the context of healthcare,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: where people are taught the same information about black people
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that they were taught in medical you know institutions since
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds, right, so much of what they have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: but they believe about the black body and its experience
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: with pain has not changed. And so medical students are
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: learning things that are like not only out of date,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: but that are completely racist. And so this is how
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: we get to a place like this, right, where people
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: don't see our bodies as important to protect, right, don't
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: see the indignity and safety of black women and the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: sovereignty of black women, and instead of protecting that, seek
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to threaten our safety and dignity right in these settings.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And so we have to be aware of that, but
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: also know that there are ways to you know, have safe,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: healthy and beautiful birth, you know, even in hospitals. I've
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: attended so many, right, But there's also times where things
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: don't go as they should, and it's important for us
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to be prepared for all outcomes.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: So in situations like you know, if you're in the
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: hospital per se, right and you come out to the hospital.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: You mentioned situations where things don't.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Go as they should, what does that look like if
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it's not you know, you know, God forbid someone doesn't
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: make it through their delivery. But like just things happening,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: what are some of the things that typically happen? And
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: how does you know having a doula there to step
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: in to advocate for you, how does that work?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of things about doula's right, just
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: for context, doualists or non clinical care providers that offer
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: emotional support, physical support, education, advocacy tools, and then partner
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: support as well. If you've a partner present, they're there
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to like support with them as well. What that looks
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: like in the birth space, right, Hopefully you've had some
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: time that you get to know your doula, You've had
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: some time to be able to build a report so
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: they know kind of what your needs are and can
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: kind of help you to signal those to the provider team.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And the duel is part of like your larger birth village, right,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: which includes obviously your physician, any nursing staff. If you
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: work with a midwife, it would be your midwife, the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: parents and family, you know, any like sort of people
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: who are part of who will be present for the delivery.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Lactation provider, pediatrician like. These are all people who are
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: part of that village, right. The duelas are supposed to
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: kind of be the gel to make sure everybody really
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: gets along well, but also that your needs are met right,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Your emotional needs primarily are met, your sense of safety.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I always say is that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: our job is to protect your memory of the birth experience, right,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and that what you recall that experience to be. And
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: so our focus is largely on not just everything going smoothly,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: but how you're feeling right, and so checking in constantly
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: on someone's emotional wellbeing right and their mental well being
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: in this process, and understanding where there's needs to adjust,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: what's happening in the care, Understanding what there's needs to
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you know, reorient you know, and then when something's happening,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: and at every juncture really asking questions. So the doer's
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: job is to make sure that you understand what's actually
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: happening in the birth process from beginning to right the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: moment we step foot in, too, the moment we leave.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You understand everything that's happening at every juncture, because before
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: anything happens that somebody touches your body, you should be
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: consenting to that touch. You should be consenting to everything
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: that happens. And what's interesting is that we're living in
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: a time where we're seeing these rollbacks on maternal health
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and on women's health writ large And I don't know
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: if you heard about this sister who was actually delivering
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: her baby and it was interrupted the she was interrupted
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: during the the birth to jump on a zoom with
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the court, that court ordered a C section for her delivery,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: court ordered a sea section and manage being forced. They basically,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: you know, were saying that because she had previous sea section,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: you know, they were I think just trying to advance
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: her labor. She was actually a doula as well, so
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: she knew her rights. And she was on a zoom
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: with like eight other people, like on a screen right
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: like we're used to, and was a judge appeared and
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: was like do you fully understand? Are you coherent? Do
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you understand what's happening? And she was like, I absolutely do.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: But why is this happen Because I don't consent to this.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Imagine this happening, right, like people literally taking away your rights.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So this is actually illegal. You know, you cannot force
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: someone to You can't force someone into especially in a
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: situation that's not an emergency, like I mean, she wasn't
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: in an emergency situation, and the procedure that they were
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: asking her to do also has risks, right, and so
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it's really challenging also for people to feel
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: like they don't have recourse to the law right and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: so seeing some of the things that are happening under
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: this administration are very frustrating because it puts us in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: a position where we have to fight to protect our
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: basic rights. When we're talking about you know, answering your
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: question really about like what do we do we're in
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: these spaces? What are some of the signs? Disrespect is
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: a sign, right, like when a patient doesn't feel respected
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: or feels like a talk down to or dismissed. A
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: neglect is a sign if you ask for something, you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: have to ask over and over and no one comes
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to the room and over provides, like you water or
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: ice or you know, change the bed or whatever it
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: might be. It's attitude and sort of like tone right,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: and tone policing, right, So if you might say something
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and someone doesn't like the tone that you responded to them,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and so policing how you're communicating, it's punishing people for
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: not necessarily going with the flow, So trying to coerce
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: people into certain actions, right. So, coercion is a common
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: thing people experience, you know, and down to like you know,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: physical instances of assault, right, like you know, cutting you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: without permission, cutting episiotomies without permission, you know, forcing someone's
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: legs open for a cervical exam, you know, doing violent
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: cervical exams. Right. There's a lot of things that people
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: don't consent to that actually happen in birth spaces that
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: in other spaces would be considered assault. And so it's
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: really important to also be able to name the harms.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: If you are someone who's experienced harm within our medical system,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: it's you be able to name that. But as doulas,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: we're always looking out for instances where people are not
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: being treated fairly, and there is something called a patient advocate,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: right that you can also connect with within the healthcare system.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: When you're dealing within the hospital setting. But I think
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that the best advocate to have when you're moving along
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the birth and continuum is a doula. I really do.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I think that having a person who really understands how
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: to navigate the health care system and who's on your
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: side and whose goals are aligned with your goals, not
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: with the institution's goals, right, but with your goals. That
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: person's going to have a different hat on and a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: different set of values that they bring to the process
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: that are going to be supportive of you, right, And
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: so so I encourage people, but also want to sort of,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you know, share that. I think a lot of people
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: have some beliefs about what it means to have a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: doula present. I think many people think that it's expensive,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and I want to sort of.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I wanted to get into that and like insurances
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: and how that I works. I think when people I
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: know me growing up, like I always felt like when
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: you heard doulas and stuff, it was for women who could,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: like who are basically like rich, Like if you do doulah,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: you do nannies, and you know, like and everybody can't
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: afford those things.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad you brought that up right, because I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: don't know how it got like that, but it got
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: that way. And you know, this is actually one of
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the oldest known professions, right like MIDWA, free and do.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: The work has been happening since the beginning of time.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And what's important for us to understand and to really
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: reflect back to people is that there's doulas for everybody.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Right this is a community based service and a community
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: support that everyone should have access to. A couple things.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of insurance providers that are on board
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: that you can submit a claim for insurance if you're
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: using DULA services, so you can submit for reimbursement. Some
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: have programs where they already have services that you can
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: tap into with certain DULA organizations. A lot of them
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: have just announced new programs coming online, so benefit packages
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: for employees as well as internally with insurance companies. We
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: designed a DOULA benefit with this insurance company that is
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: actually in its fourth year piloting, and that was such
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: an amazing process because we were able to support federal
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: employees through that benefit. And I can't tell you how
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: fulfilling it is to be able to work with people
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: who ordinarily may not be able to afford the service,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: but that is provided this way right, and if you
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: are Medicaid eligible, you are also going to find pathways
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to doula service in your states. You just have to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: do a little bit of research. In New York and
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: then the city specifically, our organization, Mama Glow and the
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Mamobla Foundation is the largest provider of pro bono DULA services.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So if you need free DOULA services in your New
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: York city and across thirty three zip codes, we provide
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: this service and it's free, right, So there's a free
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: pathway as well for people who are not really like
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: with insurance or sort of like don't fit into the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: slipping through the cracks in terms of like where they
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: sit economically. There's also other programs that have funding where
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: there's a low barrier of entry to get DULA access.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And also Mandy offer sliding scale, so there's really no
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: reason not to be able to match with one right
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: pathways from free all the way to like paid and
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: out of pocket.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: While you're talking about free and different pathways, is there
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a difference between because another thing I was surprised to
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: that about this year dulas are already in some hospitals,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: but then I know, you can go find your own.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Is there a difference between the dulas and the hospital
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and how helpful and like, you know, are they true
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: advocates versus a doula you were bringing yourself.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: That's such a great question. So depending on how the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: program's set up. So there's some programs where you have
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the doulas and they are working on a schedule similar
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to the nurses. That's just like a twelve hour shift,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and within that shift they're going to go to many
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: rooms to see many patients, right, So that's a little
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: bit different than a doula that you hire who's explicitly
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: working with you. So if they come to the hospital
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: with you, they're there the whole time, through the labor
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: experience and into the early postpartum period right after birth.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: But if you are are working with a duel in
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the hospital that the hospital provides you, typically it's set
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: up between there's staff hours for it, so that person
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: when the twelve hour shift works, you would get a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: different doula that would show up for you, right, So
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: it's a different type of setup. And also sometimes it's
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: a limited number of hours that the doula could actually
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: deploy those services were in the So it's a different
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it's a different experience. I wouldn't say necessarily that the
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: doulas are less adequate, but I would definitely say that
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the type of support will be a little bit limited
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: because that person isn't working with you necessarily the entire pregnancy.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Sometimes working you know, once you come in. There are experience,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: there are some where you'll have touch points throughout the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: pregnancy that might be digital, and then they work with
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you when you come into the hospital. So it does
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: depend the program. But the best and most effective youth, yes,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I think, is to hire someone yourself that works with
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: you directly and you have that time to build that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: relationship and so they understand you and your needs and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: they can advocate for your needs. But also they can
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: really anticipate your needs because they know you better than
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: someone you're just meeting, you know, as you move into
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: the labor process on site.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: All right, y'all.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So that was part one of my interview with Latham Thomas,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: who is a globally recognized women's health expert, a Black
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Maternal Visionary entrepreneur, IVY League professor, and the CEO of
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Mama Glow in the Mama Glow Foundation. They shape maternal health,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: birth equity, reproductive justice worldwide.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: It's Black Maternal Health Week.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I just want to get you all some education as
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I get it to I'm Lauren Rosa, your host of
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: The Latest with Laura Rosa, and today the conversation that
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: shook the room.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Is all about us taking care of us.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Y'all could be anywhere with anybody having these conversations, but
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you guys choose to be right here with me, my
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: low ribis. I appreciate you, guys. I'll see you right
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: back here because we got.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Part two of this conversation. Don't miss it.