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Transcript

My Best Friend is Dating My Ex-Husband · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Like, the hardest part isn't losing my husband. Really at
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: this point, it's realizing I might have lost my best
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: friend long before I knew she was gone. And then
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: so now I'm sitting here. Do I owe them the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt? Or is this the kind of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: betrayal you never forgive?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Ryan and Sarah, you're both glowing.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, thanks Ellen.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Where do you get your glow?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Ryan?
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Internally I wake up with a glow.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: But what gives it to you?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Love?
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Love? I think I finally found my person. I think
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: that there's a glow about me that that's been present
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: really the last year that's been If I look back
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: at myself, I don't know, two years ago, three, and
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I guarantee you'd vouch for me. You'd look across and like,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: just see this girt. There was a gray human with
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: just there was.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: A desperation, Yeah, glow, so desperate that there was some
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: trouble that came along with Oh yeah, the search? Is
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: it just like feeling cherished?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just being on a team with someone, you
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: know what I mean? And I know you both have
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: great partner and you know that feeling where you finally
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: go like we are on the same page. We want
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: the same things. We're going in the same direction.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: And you've got my back and you're my person.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: You're not experiencing the world alone anymore. No, no, And
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: it's so it's extraordinary to be with the right person.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: It can be magical.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: We see that, and you look like you've been touched
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: with the magic.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Where did you get your gloves, Sarah?
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: I got my glow in the South of France. Okay,
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: this is you want internal? This is external glowing.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Differently, Well, let's turn that to hold on. Yes you are,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: but I want to ask always question of you. Yes,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: and I want you to answer what gives you your glow?
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Go ahead?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: My glow recently is coming from my new sheet set.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, is lovely?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So good you guys. Okay. So they were expensive and
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: they're linen, and I got them from Restoration Hardware, and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I thought, this is worth the investment because you use
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: them all the time. So I bought two sets of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: linen sheets and the linen to Bay cover. And my
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: husband said, are you out of your mind? And I said, okay,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: make your call after you sleep on these.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: He loves them so much. I was like, I was right.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: What color they are?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: A cream cream color? Not be your wife full. I
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: think they I don't know what they call linen or something.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's one of those cream or vanilla like vanilla. But
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it's really changed my It's not as deep as you
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: both said. Little brands and girlfriend.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Sure, little things like that can make these little things
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: and big things they are. And that's that's smart of
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: you to have a backup ready to go when when
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: the old ones come. Hop.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to wash them every time, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: then I've gonna take them off and put the clean
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: ones on.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: You got to have two sets.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So he says, do you have a shopping problem?
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I can know.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I just improved our life. Okay, Oh, Hillary's on the line.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Are you ready for Hillary?
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's there.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Hillary.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Guys, Hey, you were on with a licensed therapist named Sarah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Hillary, Hi, what's going on?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So my husband Jason asked for a divorce after twelve
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: years of marriage. And when that happened, my best friend Nicole,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: she was like, she was my lifeline. She came over
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: with wine, she answered my late night phone calls, she
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: sat beside me in court. I mean she was hugging
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: me when I was crying over just what I thought
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: was the worst year of my life. Right, like, she
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: looked me in the eye more than once, and she promised,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: she said, I will always be on your side, Like
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: more than once, I can picture it. And then six
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: months after our divorce was finalized, she sat me down
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and she told me that she and Jason, my now husband,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: had developed feelings for each other. They both swear nothing
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: happened while we were married, but like now I just
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: can't stop replaying every girl's night. She encouraged me to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: like give them space, Like every time she's defending him
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: during her arguments, I'm going back over like every moment
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: she knew all the details about my marriage, nobody else did.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: And then even if right now it's they're telling the truth,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: like they didn't get together while while we were married,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Like I just feel like she just used this front
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: row seat to the collapse of my marriage, you know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: to audition for my life. And now they're like posting
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: happy couple of pictures online. They're introducing each other to family,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: they're acting like everyone should celebrate their love story. And
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: so now like the hardest part isn't losing my husband. Really,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: at this point, it's realizing I might have lost my
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: best friend long before I knew she was gone. And
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: then so now I'm sitting here, Do I owe them
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt? Or is this the kind
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: of betrayal you never forgive? Because I really you don't
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: know what I'm going to do now, you know.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is a betrayal trauma, and I think
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: that the betrayal of your friend is cutting more deeply
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: than the betrayal of your husband.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to tell you why.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: I think that when we talk about betrayal trauma, it's
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: not it's a lot more than I'm hurt.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: This is disappointing.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: It's when the reality is very different from what we
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: thought it was. So it's like it's shattering in that way,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: we lose our sense of self, we lose our sense
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: of safety. Okay, I don't know exactly what was going
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: on in your marriage. The fact that he asked for
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: a divorce tells me that things were not ideal, So
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: it doesn't really affect your reality in the same way
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: as this long, long, long time cherished friendship. You know,
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: this person who's there for you every step of the way.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: That's actually where the betrayal trauma comes in, because it's
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: very different from what you thought it was.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Does that resonate at all?
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, And it just just all the things I told her,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: like she just had such an insider view of the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: whole thing. And I'm looking at the timeline and it's
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: like six months after the divorce is Finalie. So I'm
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: just wondering, did they make a calendar note, you know,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: like when it's okay? I don't know, is.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: There a timeline Hillary that would have been acceptable to
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: you if it wasn't six months? I mean, like, let's
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: say this is three years out. Would you still be
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: feeling this way if it was, you know, while a
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: while from now?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Right now, I'm just like looking back at all these
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: moments and I'm like, you were lying to me, you.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Know, dis Paine, I hear, I'm your voice ID it's palpable,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: how devastating, I says, and emotional?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, espionage, yeah, I been could have been.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: That's the key thing.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: It could have been.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: See because I hear if you guys do okay, I
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: know you're an lmft, Sarah. But you're also a woman,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: and I feel like sometimes sometimes women do fill the
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: vacuum with thoughts or hypotheticals that may not necessarily be there.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at this going you're making this up. You're
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: creating your own problem. You don't know that this was happening.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: And are you.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Referring to the fact that they there could have been
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: this indiscretion during the marriage, or the fact that she
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: was scheming and plotting.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Now I'm referring to the fact that I think Hillary
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: is keeping herself sick over this what if thing. You're
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: just creating your what if.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is a big do it. But but
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: how do you not how do you not look if
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you don't know, you're always going to wonder.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: But you could just stop one of them, Oh.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of these happy couple pictures and stuff
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: like and just you know, I mean.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Okay, from from a practical sense. From a practical sense,
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: you need to unfollow and block that. Do not continually
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: expose yourself to what I think for you it feels
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: like a horror show. Yeah, don't want to do that.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And look, whether she was planning this and you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: waiting for the divorce to be final, whether they were
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: sleeping together or why were married, does any of that
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: change You're going to go forward?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: No, I guess if I say yes, because this is
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: why I say I say yes, because you're what do
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: you call it the trauma? It's the betrayal, the betrayal
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: trauma You're now she's going to go through life feeling like,
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: who's going to betray me next?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: If my best friend did that to me? And the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: not knowing was it planned or was it?
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Was it accident?
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And all they just fell into each other's arms six
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: months after the divorce is final.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately she can't ever be certain of what was
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: really true.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: That's what my point was.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: But will either of them ever dis fess up?
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: But what if there's nothing to fess up to? And
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: because with everyone, if they're you have to balance it
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: out with the what if not? And I feel like
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: this is an imbalance here. I think she's really focused
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: on the this was happening? Oh my god, I miss
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: the signs? What if what? Give yourself some grace and
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: go what if not?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, Sarah, when you see with infidelity cases, sure
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: do you see if the other person you know why,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: when did it start? What did you do?
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: Care?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: But it all to me, It all matters as a
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: woman like I want to know every detail. When did
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: you first kiss this person? When did you have feelings
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: for this person?
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: And I think when we want those details, we're seeking
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: a sense of control because we feel really out of control.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: So the details are less about the truth as we
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: define it, and a way to maintain a sense of
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: control over the situation we seek.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: We seek.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: We stop seeking details when we realize that those details
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: are not going to affect the decision we make going forward, but.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: They affect who we are.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: I you effect we are because they do affect who
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: we are the rest.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Of her life. If she doesn't find out the details.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just sick to my stomach right now. I don't
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: know how that's going to end well.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: At some point, I think it's going to be necessary
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: for you to start practicing a type of healthy detachment,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: not where you wish revenge or it's like a way
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: where it simply becomes irrelevant to you what's going on
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: in their life. I know that feels really far off
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: in the distance, but it is. It is possible because
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: their actions, whatever they were do not define you, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: they do not define your future unless you choose.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: To let it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: You're really good. Yeah, that's good, Sarah, jeez, that's perfect.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: I actually feel like I'm kind of mimicking what you said. Brilliant.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: So one thing we haven't asked about where where are
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: you at with your friend right now? Like what is
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: the frequency of seeing each other phone calls or texts?
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Or like, where are you guys over? You think? She says,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I maybe.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking to her. I'm not talking to her
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: right would still she's still reaching out to me, but
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything back.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Oh I don't think you'll ever talk to her again?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Will you?
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to know. I don't.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: I mean I would you as a guy? Would you?
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Literally?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Would you? Would you be talking to the person?
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: I mean I probably would. It would change a bit,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: a bit of how I interacted. I wouldn't. I wouldn't cut.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Him off so you could have him in your life,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: could you?
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Sarah?
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Probably not?
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, just as a as a as
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: a person, I think it would be I think it
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: would be hard. I don't think. I think I would
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: not want to be repeatedly exposed to the.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Pain of what happened.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: I would want to be able to move on, to
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: step away, to go forward, to leave that in the past,
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: and I wouldn't want the I think the reminder would
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: be painful for me.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I would say, you two go have your life together.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: You will never I will never. We're done.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: And I think to remove access to you is a
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: completely appropriate and reasonable decision to make in that situation.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, easier said than done all these things.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: But yeah, Ryan is an exceptionally forgiving human being.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Teasing a little bit because it's a beautiful thing. For
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: his sins God, Okay, that's that's that's not it.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: I just look, I maybe have too much of a
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: I should probably care more, right, But it's like, man,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: you don't You don't own people. You can't control what
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: they do. You just have to go do what is
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: this a person I want in my life? Do I
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: care and love them enough to go? Okay, well you're
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: with him now, that's for me. It's easier to just
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: get past it. I don't. It doesn't it doesn't resonate
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: with me as as a as a mortal sin.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Because you don't let it define you.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: You don't see their behavior is having anything to do
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: with you.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That's why you can let it go.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: And that's really impressive.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: That is impressive.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Okay, I want to ask you something. What reason did
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: your husband give when he filed for divorce? Can you
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: tell us a little bit how that played out?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean part of it through just I really
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: think a lot of it is I make a lot
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: more money than he does. I think there was a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: lot of insecurity about that. He was kind of in
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and out of work and I was always coming up
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: with ideas about you know, different different jobs and whatever,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and he was stuck in a job he didn't like.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I just think he was kind of in a dark
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: place and I couldn't get him out of it. And
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: we had a lot we just we just were fighting
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: all the time, you know, like yelling. It just wasn't healthy,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we were just yelling. There was a lot
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of yelling, and we both come from yelling families, and
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it was just a lot of stuff. I mean, we
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: went through couples therapy. We tried to keep it together
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and it just didn't work. But it you know, I mean,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I that was bad enough though. I mean, divorce is
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: just unbelievably hard, and ask anybody who's been through it, right,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: But then, you know, my best friend was really like
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: she was there for me this whole time, and she's
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: hearing all about this stuff, and I just wonder what
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: kind of conversations she has been like, no, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: is she's saying, no, it's okay, baby, that you know
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: whatever she should? You know, I'm wondering if she's like
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: saying that I'm the bad guy to him too. You know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I wonder how much that played a part in all this.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know, and I don't know either, And unfortunately,
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I don't think you're ever going to be able to
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: get the answers to these questions. Were it not for
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: the situation involving your friend, how would you feel about
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: being out of this marriage? It sounds like it was
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: a really challenging situation for both of you, So let's
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: take her out. Are you sad that you are no
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: longer married to this person?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Or do you feel like this is of course I am, Yes,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: of course I am sad.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, So you do or do not feel like
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: you are better off without this marriage?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not there yet.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: All right, that's that's different, all right. M wow, Well
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: It's just gonna make it hard for you to love
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: and trust again. Oh for sure.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I was like absolutely, I can answer for.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know if something's broken with me in terms
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: of this, but I just feel like, man, get back
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: on the horse.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: It's like the negative self speak that we fill our
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: heads with can be your biggest enemy. It's like if
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: you're a kid riding a bike and you fall off
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: a bike, what do you do? What is your What
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: does your parents say? What do you tell yourself? You
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: don't say, God, you suck, You're an idiot. You go
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: get back on the bike. That's what this is. And
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I don't If somebody hurt you, that's on them, it's
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: not on you. And to go to make up all
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: these scenarios. You know that that you're just concocting for
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: what and Ryan is correct.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: It's not a reflection of you or how lovable you are,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: how worthy you are of kind treatment. Just because somebody
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: chooses to not treat you in a humane way.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: That's them one hundred percent.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: In your practice, Sarah, do you see that once, Like,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: let's just say Hillary finds a guy and you guys
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: start seeing each other. Is that a band aid? Does
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: that help heal? Once Hillary has a new man in
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: her life? Do you see in your practice that that's
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: a huge It gets exponentially better faster, it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Is, and it doesn't erase what was in the past,
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: but it can make somebody feel alive again, hopeful, wanted. Yes,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I use the word cherished earlier, and that is it's
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: so healing. To be treated well by somebody is very
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: healing of the past.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: And I really I hope that for you.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, you sound like a lovely person and I
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: think that you're.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Deserving of that.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: And I do hope that you're going to be able
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: to just detach from this pain. And it's not about forgiveness.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: It's about letting go and moving on for yourself.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, moving on the moving on part.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but don't do the social media looking.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: No, that's about it.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just I was so drawn to just
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: see what's happening, and there's no reason to do that.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what. Our our generous sponsors here Air Tasker,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: you know, they make this podcast possible if it's too
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: hard for you to like, go through your phone and
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: delete photos of her. You can hire a tasker to
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: do anything, get anything done. Hand your phone over and
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: go listen. Purge my phone of all memories of this person.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: On following all these brilliant ideas, I can't. I can't
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: bring myself to do it. There, I'm not there yet.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Just please. Her name is Tracy. She looks like this.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Find any mention and bounce.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: It, get rid of That's such a good.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: That way, you don't have to see it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You have to relive the pain. That's it, and then
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you get a clean, a clean bill of health, and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: then you can move on and find your next guy.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's air Tasker dot com and the air task
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: get anything done. Thank your tasker, and thank you Hillary.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: No, thanks for talking today. It's gives me lots to
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: think about.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, before we wrap this, are we really that different
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: as men and women? I mean, no, I'm serious. Is
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: there something wrong with me?
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: No?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with you.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I do think, and I think this is such an
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: amazingly cool thing about you, is that you're not defined
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: by how other people treat you, and so many of
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: us are I'm treated badly. That must be you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Not worthy and it's just so you take that, you
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: take that, okay.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: We internalized that define us.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: If you're just lying to yourself, no, it's I mean,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: do you think that you're in denial?
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: You don't feel like you deny your saying.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I've known him for eleven years. He's not in he
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: this is him okay, and he as this teflon kind
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: of way of living that you get like if you
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: if a situation doesn't suit you, it's you know, let
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: me let me find one it will, and that serves
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you well. It has served him. I believe it's served
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: him well.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I think I think it probably took me some time
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: to get here, probably through some things that didn't serve
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: me well. I think that's how you ultimately get to
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: the point where you thickened your skin and you're like
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: you really just look at it straight away and you go,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what am I giving my time to
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: my energy? And then you just it's like quick.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: It's like I've heard the expression that people living life
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: without a rear view mirror, and I've always loved that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Just focus ahead and you don't forward. Let that you know,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: you don't let it contain you. It's not expansive to
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: live like that, to be defined by the past.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Did talks, guys, Yeah, seriously, let's do this again.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay,