Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / The All Blacks Players Under Pressure For the Bledisloe Cup

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The All Blacks Players Under Pressure For the Bledisloe Cup · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
As All Blacks this week, we need to have that desperation intensity that we had in the rivals.
0:05
I mean, two other guys that's back for the All Blacks that will have a massive impact.
0:09
Scott Barrett, then then Shannon Frizzell.
0:12
I saw some of the games he played in Japan and he was just outstanding.
0:16
You're talking about what the All Blacks have to do.
0:18
I think the first thing we have to do is win.
0:20
They're going to Eden Park.
0:21
No one can beat the All Blacks at Eden Park.
0:23
Them beating South Africa sort of made the Bledisloe, you know?
0:26
That's what we do in South Africa.
0:27
I mean, it's a friendly game.
0:29
We do it for other people, but when we need to win it, then we come through.
0:37
Right, welcome to another edition of Rugby Rivals, brought to you by Ram Hand-to-Hand Couriers.
0:43
And Bledisloe Cup Week, JK, so you must be getting excited.
0:47
Absolutely fizzing, mate.
0:49
Absolutely fizzing.
0:51
And the good thing is that Victor and I will probably get on because South Africa's not playing.
0:56
So I'm expecting, Victor, for you to be nice to the All Blacks during this period.
1:01
So I'm actually looking forward to it.
1:03
But no, there's lots to talk about.
1:05
I'm really excited about it.
1:07
I think we saw South Africa have a little bit of a hiccup
1:11
And I think we're all sort of waiting and hoping that we can get back to those levels against an improving Australian side.
1:17
So there's lots on it.
1:19
Them beating South Africa sort of made the Bledisloe, you know?
1:22
It was a friendly test match.
1:24
I told you.
1:25
So we're nice guys.
1:27
We made the Bledisloe more interesting.
1:29
We marketed the World Cup.
1:32
That's what we do in South Africa.
1:33
When it's a friendly game, we do it for other people.
1:37
But when it's game on, we need...
1:40
When we need to win it, then we come through.
1:42
But yeah, Jake, I'm 100% with you.
1:45
I think we need a strong Australian side.
1:49
We want them to compete.
1:51
I mean, even back in Super Rugby, I would like the Australian sides to come back to the age where George Gregan, Larkham, those boys were playing for the Brumbies and were really difficult to play against.
2:05
We need Australia to be back.
2:07
It looks like
2:09
There's something happening.
2:11
I also always prefer a local coach as a head coach off a national side.
2:19
So I think Leskis, I worked with him in South Africa back in the day.
2:24
He was a much younger defensive coach, but the passion and the detail that he puts into his coaching is fantastic.
2:32
So, yeah, let's hope it's going to be a great series.
2:35
What's the saying?
2:36
Can you just get me right?
2:38
You're full of cuck.
2:39
Is that the right saying?
2:41
Yeah.
2:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:42
But that's a free word.
2:44
We can't use that word.
2:45
No, I wouldn't use it.
2:46
But I was just, when you were talking at the beginning, that was the word that was going through my head.
2:51
But I wouldn't say that on the show, of course.
2:54
Okay.
2:55
Which is wondering.
2:57
Yeah.
2:58
Like, this is vital for the All Blacks, JK, because, you know, we've come off three test match losses, you know, and...
3:05
You know, the Bledisloe Cup's important, keeping the Eden Park record's important, but we need to start winning.
3:13
Yeah, look, I think it is important, Ricardo.
3:16
I think that for me personally, I'll give you my personal opinion, I thought that South Africa were the better team.
3:25
So I've been saying this.
3:27
I believe that the South African side is like we were from 2-11 to 2-15.
3:32
So really dominant, great side, lots of experience.
3:35
Can play badly and win.
3:38
And that's a great side when you can play badly and win.
3:41
Not that they play badly in this series against the All Blacks.
3:45
But I think the intensity and the level of the physicality is something that I was in awe of.
3:51
And I think we need to replicate that without South Africa on the other side of the park.
3:58
So for us, as All Blacks this week, we need to have that incredible desperation intensity that we had in the rivals.
4:07
I think if we can produce that intensity and we need to see, I mean, Dave Rene will want improvement.
4:15
And what improvements do we want to see?
4:17
Well, if you think about the rivals, and then I'll throw to you, Victor, how you think we need to improve because you might see it differently.
4:24
But I think for us, there were some critical moments where we made some poor, just individual errors, decision making, trying to get an offload, you know, making, giving away a stupid penalty.
4:37
And then I think the scrum will probably
4:41
not be as tested but we do need to start being really dominant there so those things we need to see we need to see improvement there which means you're gonna have to play a a really thorough 80 minute game against Aussie and not let them start well put them under pressure intensity get your set piece right no stupid errors and just a really 80 minute performance
5:03
Now, I'm not saying in 80-minute performance, Australia won't play their partner, but when Australia have the ball, there needs to be an incredibly intense...
5:12
I mean, there was a phase there where I think Australia... South Africa had 32 rucks, Victor, and the All Blacks held them out.
5:20
So that's what we need to see.
5:21
I don't know what you're seeing, Victor, but that's what I need to see.
5:25
Yeah, I think from the All Blacks' side, there was a lot of talk about...
5:30
the big moments that they lost against South Africa.
5:32
I mean, all those chess matches were really competitive.
5:36
It could have gone anyway, but I mean, you talked about the South African team, very senior team guys that makes the right decision under pressure.
5:49
And that's something that maybe just left on the big moments they didn't make the right decisions.
5:54
But yeah, I think there's a few guys coming back into the squad
5:58
I think a guy like Richie Mohanga will probably get that 10 jersey now to go out there and just to run the team.
6:05
He hasn't been there for a long time.
6:07
So it also takes time.
6:08
I mean, the Japanese league is not quite there where I think Test Match Rappi is.
6:14
So to take him time just to get back into it, and I think great opportunity.
6:20
I mean, two other guys that are back for the All Blacks that will have a massive impact.
6:24
Scott Barrett, I still believe he's a fantastic rugby player.
6:28
I know he was under a lot of pressure last year with the captaincy, but as a player, if he plays secondary or even bright side flank, he will have an impact.
6:37
And then the guy that I saw in your squad, and I've said it all the time, Shannon Frizzell, I saw some of the games he played in Japan and he was just outstanding.
6:48
Before he went over to Japan, he was probably the standout player for the All Blacks in that back.
6:55
So, he kept bringing a lot of physicality.
6:58
And I mean, if you look at that Australian side against South Africa, they actually stood up.
7:03
Yes, it wasn't the same team.
7:04
I mean, in the second half, when the first choice, Franco came up, they struggled with scrum time.
7:12
But they brought a lot of physicality.
7:15
They also got a really big pack.
7:17
So I think you will be tested.
7:20
Physical and then the other area where Australia actually outplayed us, and that's probably one of your biggest weaknesses, is the aerial battle.
7:30
They actually beat South Africa in the aerial battle.
7:32
They won that, they got all the scraps and from there they could play.
7:35
Where I think the All Blacks against South Africa, that's one area in all four test matches that they really struggled.
7:43
I think under the high ball they will be tested.
7:46
It will be interesting to see whether injuries, if Suhali is still going to stay on the wing or will they move him to that 13 jersey.
7:53
So I think physically you will be tested and I mean that in real battle is so important in the modern game.
8:03
Yeah, I mean, you don't watch any NRL, Victor, but, you know, the NRL final was on last night and that aerial battle is massive.
8:13
And I think what we need to be doing over here is ringing up someone from...
8:19
from Australian rules.
8:21
Maybe someone like Mickey Byrne again.
8:23
We had Mick Byrne from Australian rules.
8:25
Because I just think we're going to have to go to that overhead taking of the high ball.
8:30
We're going to have to learn a new skill.
8:32
I think waiting for it in the old traditional way when you're on defence.
8:37
So a lot of those Australian league boys have sort of played Aussie rules at a young age and they get in the air.
8:44
But I totally agree with you.
8:46
I think...
8:47
I think Scott Barrett coming back in the side will give us a real edge.
8:51
You know, I heard someone quoted the other day, I heard someone quote Dave Rennie, that Dave Rennie said that, and I don't know if that's true, that, you know, Scott Barrett was a reluctant captain.
9:05
you know, and I don't know if that's true or not, but for me, Scott Barrett gives us a real edge.
9:13
I like him when he's not captain because he can push the, you know, he can push the aggression to the limit.
9:18
You know, he gets the odd yellow card, but I can live with that because, you know, he hits rocks, he's tough.
9:24
I really love that.
9:25
Also agree with your, shit, I'm agreeing with you a lot.
9:28
That's a real worry, but I don't know what I'm going to do.
9:30
We're on the same team now, aren't we, JK?
9:32
Come on.
9:33
Yeah, well, possibly, but you never wore the all-black jersey, so I can't sort of call you a teammate yet.
9:39
You haven't won this year, like I said.
9:42
All right, all right.
9:44
So Frizzell, I think, you know, here in New Zealand, and you would have played against him a bit, Victor, you know, since Jerome Kaino has retired, we've always been talking about replacing Jerome Kaino, and I think Frizzell, towards the end of his career, was that.
10:02
before he went to Japan, sorry.
10:04
So, yeah, I think... And there's great competition amongst that now, you know.
10:08
Tupovai, I think, is a great player.
10:12
I think he possibly made a couple of errors that he'll learn from.
10:16
But he certainly... You know, do you see him as a lock or do you see him as a loose forward?
10:22
Victor, can I just ask you a question?
10:24
You captained South Africa, but obviously you also had aggression in your game.
10:28
Did you find when you were captain...
10:31
you had to dial it back a bit?
10:32
Not really.
10:33
I mean, I was never a Bucky's Boerthal or any of those type of locks that really could have said I was the enforcer.
10:41
I was more just the jumper giving the ball away.
10:45
But no, I think captaincy doesn't really make a difference.
10:51
I think it actually, I enjoyed being captain.
10:55
It made me
10:56
almost more focus.
10:57
I did a lot more homework when I was captain about the opposition, the calls I wanted to make, how I saw the game as well.
11:05
So I actually felt like I probably played a bit better when I had the captaincy because there was more things I had to know about the game and that helped me a lot.
11:18
So, yeah, it's always difficult.
11:20
I think when you're really that type of enforcer, you want to get stuck in, you want to be in the face.
11:26
It's probably difficult to be a captain and be that person.
11:30
I always look at a guy like Mauro Utosia as well.
11:35
In England, they believe he's like the enforcer.
11:39
But with a captaincy and everything, it's very difficult to really be in the faces and push that boundary.
11:44
So, maybe it's better for Scott Barrett just to go out there, play his game.
11:48
I mean, his athletic ability, his line-out ability, he's a fantastic player.
11:55
It will be nice to see him back to his best form as well because he's someone that's really a special player in world rugby.
12:02
Did you ever play with a reluctant captain?
12:07
You have to explain the word reluctant.
12:09
So you kept it, but...
12:12
Yeah, you're captain, but you don't really want to be, and your game goes off by 10% just because you're thinking too much or overplaying it.
12:21
That's how we say a reluctant captain.
12:24
So you're captain because you don't want to turn it down, but then your game suffers a bit and you're not really happy in the role.
12:33
Yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of talk about a lot of players where they say once they get the captaincy, they don't really form as they should.
12:43
But I believe in the modern day game, it's not just about one person.
12:49
I mean, when CR started with South Africa,
12:54
I mean, he wasn't very experienced as a captain and Rusty told him, there's only one thing or two things I want you to do.
13:00
You need to work on your body language because Sia was a guy that could drop his shoulders very quickly.
13:05
And I just want you to talk to the referee and I'll give you the pointers that you need to talk to the referee.
13:12
Then the rest of it, you leave to the other guys.
13:14
Dwayne Vermeulen would do the motivation, Andre Poehart would do it.
13:18
call those shots on what we wanted, the plays we wanted to do.
13:21
So he made it just focus in a small area.
13:23
And from there, he grew.
13:25
I mean, now he's doing everything.
13:27
He's a fantastic leader.
13:28
But when he started, I think Rossi managed it right that he didn't give him too much responsibility.
13:36
And they shared that responsibility with a lot of guys.
13:39
So I think it's all about the team you put around the captain.
13:42
So let's say Scott Barrett is there.
13:45
I mean,
13:46
Just give him one or two roles that he needs to focus on.
13:49
He doesn't have to do everything.
13:51
I think, J.K., they asked Scott Barrett about that reluctant captain line, and he said, well, look, I never really said that, but that was the inference that Dave Rennie took out of our conversation.
14:02
So, you know, let's go to our sponsors, Ram Hand to Hand Couriers.
14:05
You know, they deliver.
14:07
Who has to deliver for the All Blacks in this Blazers Low Cup Series, J.K.?
14:13
Richie Moanga, definitely.
14:14
Like, if you saw the naming of the side, they've named Bowdoin as an outside back.
14:20
I thought they might name him as a 10.
14:25
but you've got Josh there as the backup.
14:27
So I think what Victor said for me, it's very much, you know, very much Richie Moanga for me.
14:36
You know, we know how good he is.
14:38
He's an outstanding 10.
14:40
You know, he came back in on the rivals.
14:43
So for me, we will need him very much to stand up if we're going to continue to grow.
14:50
Victor, who do you think?
14:51
You're from the Ram hand-to-hand couriers person that delivers.
14:55
Who has to deliver for the All Blacks?
14:57
All the Australians?
14:58
Ram hand-to-hand couriers to deliver.
15:01
I can't believe I'm going to agree with JK on this again because I think it's going to be so important.
15:08
I think the two games, there was so much expectation on Richie Mwanga and he actually haven't...
15:14
I thought the two games he played wasn't what everyone was expecting of him.
15:21
I don't think it was quite at the level that everyone expected.
15:25
The influence in the games that he had against the Lions and in that last test match wasn't quite there.
15:31
But I think now he would have time to get into that position, to train there every day, almost to start running the team.
15:39
So I think for the All Blacks, that's going to be very important.
15:43
And then, I mean, also there's Krump.
15:46
I think if they want to start competing with South Africa, their scrum actually need to dominate the Aussies and don't just be on par with it.
15:54
Well, the ram-to-ram, hand-to-hand couriers, did I get that right, Ricardo?
15:59
Ram-to-hand couriers.
16:01
There you go.
16:01
That's what I said.
16:02
What did I say?
16:03
I just put two rams.
16:03
You put another ram in there.
16:05
Yeah, I know.
16:06
Definitely still haven't given them your glasses, otherwise it would have been here already.
16:10
Yeah, they're still waiting for them.
16:12
I'm just saying that my thing is that Victor agreed with me.
16:16
So that's going to be my Ram Hand-to-Hand Couriers special moment of tonight.
16:22
While we're talking about Ram Hand-to-Hand Couriers, I talked about the competition last, and I asked you, Victor, it's the Isuzu D-Max 3.0 DDV cross, but they're also calling something...
16:37
A what?
16:37
It's a Bucky.
16:38
It's a Bucky, you said.
16:39
It's called a Bucky.
16:40
Like, if there's ever a name I would have thought you would have remembered.
16:43
A Bucky.
16:46
Yeah, man, it's almost the same.
16:49
It's a bucky.
16:50
Yeah, it's a bucky.
16:52
So that's the prize.
16:53
It's worth bucking.
16:55
Riccardo, you've got to realize that Victor actually lives in his own little world.
17:01
Like he doesn't, you know, like he stirs his clippies and coke with his fingers.
17:06
Like I think he tells us this is what they do in South Africa, but actually he's just in his own little world, I don't know.
17:14
jk he had his arm around someone called bakis for like a million test matches so you'd think that he'd know that it was called a baki anyway yeah but you imagine what would happen if victor called um bakis a a ute like he'd just smack you wouldn't he victor yeah i won't say too much to bakis i always had to ask him nicely to do something for me so um
17:40
But luckily he loved me.
17:41
He would have done anything for me to protect me.
17:46
I met him and he just about broke my hand.
17:49
He just squeezed it so hard.
17:51
And I said, I'm a winger, mate.
17:53
Like, be gentle.
17:55
And he just growled at me.
17:57
Actually, I played golf with him the other day.
17:59
And, yeah, it's fun with him on the golf course.
18:03
soft skills with maybe a big thing so that's bucky's this is a bucky the isuzu d-max so it's the prize and so basically i think it's worth 790 000 rand so it's you know it's a beautiful beautiful vehicle and what you do is you go and uh
18:22
head over to www.ram.co.za backslash competition and register there, register, set up an account and go in for the draw to win.
18:33
And there's, you know, we don't have many people watch or listen to this show, so you've got a good chance of being a winner.
18:41
But there's only eight people that watch the show, so, you know, if only four of them enter, you've got a good chance.
18:47
So go and...
18:49
Go and register there and... We want to replace JK, then we'll have more fans.
18:53
What's that?
18:55
We want to replace JK, then we'll have more fans.
18:58
Yeah.
18:59
No, he's got quite a large family.
19:01
Yeah.
19:02
I was going to say, they're the other seven people, so be careful, Victor, because out of the nine people, seven of them are my family and my sisters, they'll come and get you.
19:11
Yeah, they're an angry group.
19:13
So...
19:16
One of the things with the Wallabies, I mean, they've got the huge companies at the moment.
19:20
Ricardo, just a question.
19:22
Are your fingernails painted?
19:24
No, my thumb is.
19:27
In my middle finger.
19:27
Why did you paint your... What's that?
19:31
That's weird.
19:32
Hey.
19:32
Victor, what's going on?
19:34
Well, Victor... You're calling me weird and you're wearing swimming goggles.
19:37
The Wallabies are going into this unbeaten, I think, at five or six games.
19:40
And a victory over the South Africans as well.
19:45
So the favourites...
19:47
Yeah, I think they have to be.
19:48
You know, we're coming off three losses.
19:50
They're coming off like six wins, including beating South Africa.
19:55
Like you're talking about what the All Blacks have to do.
19:57
I think the first thing we have to do is win.
20:00
Well, that's obvious.
20:01
That's obvious.
20:02
But I think, I mean, there's a lot of pressure on the All Blacks.
20:05
Like you said, they haven't lost three games in a row for a very long time.
20:10
I think if they lose another one, it can be a problem.
20:15
But
20:15
They're going to Eden Park.
20:17
No one can beat the All Blacks at Eden Park.
20:19
So unfortunately for Australia, it could have been easier if it was anywhere else.
20:25
But I mean going to Eden Park is going to be really tough to beat the All Blacks.
20:29
So the All Blacks will be the favourites going into the game.
20:32
The guys are lying again.
20:36
Talking cuck.
20:37
That's fair.
20:38
That's fair.
20:39
I'm just trying to put pressure on the Australians by calling them favourites.
20:41
That is fair.
20:43
So you've had a bit of a break, you know.
20:46
Victor, what?
20:47
No, some of us worked.
20:48
Others went around Europe having a good time.
20:51
Well, I normally ask you what your clip drift moment of the game is, and we haven't really had a game.
20:58
So what's your clip drift moment away from the game, Victor?
21:03
Victor?
21:05
Well, yeah, I had a great time, like I said.
21:07
I even played a round of golf with Mr. Bukki's Boota Makumba.
21:12
That was pretty special.
21:15
Yeah, we went through Italy, Slovenia, Austria, then ended at the beer fest.
21:23
So there's quite a few clip-drift moments.
21:27
But I'm not going to go to the beer fest.
21:29
I'm going to go, we went to Lake Bled and
21:33
It's one of the prettiest places I've ever seen in my life.
21:37
We went to have lunch at the castle, and of course, we sneaked in a little Clip Drift Premium and Coke.
21:44
And just being at the top, having our own Clip Drift Premium and Coke, looking over at Lake Bled was definitely my Clip Drift moment of this last two weeks.
21:56
J.K.?
21:56
Well, I mean, I'll talk about mine in a moment.
21:59
I just felt really, really disappointed because I know Victor doesn't like me, but he came to my town.
22:06
He was 20 minutes away from my house, and I missed him.
22:11
And he left.
22:12
You left when I arrived.
22:13
And you were at the airport.
22:15
Yeah, I know.
22:16
But I would have organised something, you know.
22:19
Anyway, I feel very fortunate.
22:23
So I've been travelling the country, Victor.
22:26
I have a mental health curriculum that we built specifically here in New Zealand for primary schools.
22:34
So that's called Mighty.
22:36
So I've been travelling around the country, and the All Blacks have been amazing in supporting me.
22:41
So they gave us the Bledisloe Cup,
22:44
So we would go into grassroots rugby.
22:47
So I went, you know, Christchurch, Timuru, Oamaru, Dunedin, Queenstown, you know, right through Masterton, all through these beautiful towns and taking the Bledisloe Cup, people had never seen it.
23:01
They wanted photos with it, but also promoting Mighty, which is, you know, I'm trying to raise $5 million so that we can,
23:09
put it in another 250 schools because we don't want the schools to pay so it's a charity and we pay for the program to go into schools and it was just it was just neat ricardo just um realizing how important rugby still is in our country and the kids getting out and taking photos with the bled is low and so yeah i had too many highlights to mention but it's certainly gonna finish on saturday we have the biggest game of rugby
23:36
world record game of rugby, Victor.
23:38
We have 525 kids that we've invited to Eden Park to play against some of the All Blacks.
23:44
Richie and Dan are supporting me, so they're going to be out there.
23:47
And so it'll be the big world record game of rugby.
23:51
So, yeah.
23:52
So that's been my highlight, Ricardo.
23:54
Are you playing?
23:55
I'm refereeing.
23:57
Ha!
23:57
I want to see that.
23:58
Please send me clips.
24:00
We can go after him on Monday morning about his refereeing.
24:04
Yeah, there'll be no TMO calls, I tell you.
24:08
No one will be... No yellow cards.
24:10
No yellow cards.
24:13
Yeah.
24:13
I mean, it's no use to me talking about it, Victor, but you should have seen the NRL grand final last night.
24:19
The referee was absolutely outstanding, mate.
24:22
Absolutely outstanding.
24:23
He went upstairs... How many yellow cards were there, JK?
24:27
There wasn't any.
24:27
There was a couple on report.
24:29
He only went upstairs a couple of times when it was really necessary.
24:32
The guys upstairs were moving really quick.
24:35
And the game was amazing.
24:37
The ref just took control, made a few mistakes, but backed himself.
24:41
The players were really good.
24:42
They didn't moan and groan and didn't sort of challenge the captain's challenge.
24:47
So it was really good.
24:49
Who won?
24:50
It's the Russes that won.
24:52
Yeah.
24:53
by a point.
24:54
I think Mark Ngaunga Natoase is the best rugby player in the world.
25:00
He's playing rugby league.
25:02
As from now, he's a rugby player.
25:04
Yeah, no, he was absolutely outstanding.
25:05
He was an outstanding rugby player, played for the Wallabies.
25:09
We were all disappointed to see him leave because he's got a bit of X factor.
25:13
I think going to rugby league has improved some parts of his game, and it's a real shame that he's actually going to Japan.
25:25
Can they pick him from Japan?
25:27
Yeah, no, he's only going to Japan to make some money, and then he's targeting the Wallabies for the World Cup.
25:33
Okay, so he's only going for this off-season.
25:36
Yeah, yeah.
25:36
So he is all in for the World Cup.
25:39
And, mate, the quality of that player, man, he is... And what position will he play?
25:45
Will he be on the wing?
25:47
I think so, mate.
25:48
Yeah, I think he'll be on the wing.
25:49
Yeah.
25:51
Who knows, he might play at centre, but his aerial skills, his carrying of the ball, I think the beauty of him, Victor, is he doesn't conform, like he'll throw out the back pass.
26:07
Last night he did this soccer skill from right foot to left foot and then scored a try.
26:14
It was unbelievable.
26:16
So, yeah, I agree, Ricciardo.
26:17
I think he's outstanding.
26:18
He's been outstanding as a league wing.
26:20
And let's hope he transfers that straight away because we need superstars in our game, man.
26:25
Yeah, yeah.
26:27
And by the time he's playing for the Wallabies, we'll be able to pronounce his name properly.
26:32
Yeah.
26:33
He's got time.
26:34
And I'll apologize for Ricciardo in advance.
26:38
But I'm going to finish the show now, so...