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It's Friday I'm Still in Trauma from P.E. · Friday I'm in Bed

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Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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Podcast for midlife women living their best life while in bed by
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10. This week on Friday, I'm in bed.
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We're starting with health and fitness as we get older and
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asking why so many of us still have such a complicated
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relationship with exercise. Is it through PE in the 70s and
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80s where it was basically humiliation in polyester
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gymnickers? Or because fitness has so often
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been sold to women through beauty, weight and appearance
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rather than strength, energy and feeling good.
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Then we're talking about Olivia Rodrigo at the Internet debate
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around her baby doll dress. We get into history of the style
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from the late night, she's two 90s grunge and why it's suddenly
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become a cultural battleground. Is she just having fun with
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fashion? Or does the pressure on female
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performers to look increasingly youthful feed into a bigger
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problem where youth is still tied to value?
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And at what point does commenting on what women wear
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become its own issue? So grab a cuppa and let's get
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into it. Hello Kate, how are you?
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I hear you've been poorly this week.
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Hello, I am better today, thankfully.
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Just in time to record the podcast.
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I need to say happy birthday to you, Gemma, because it was your
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birthday yesterday. It was it was my birthday on
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Wednesday, which is when we normally record, but we didn't
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because you were poorly, which meant that I got the whole day
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of my birthday off. So I went shopping and bought
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myself address and some other pointless things that I don't
1:36
need, like a colouring book and 400 gothic sticker book because
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what you need when you turn 47 is stickers and colouring books.
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I think you'll find I. Think you'll find anything that
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brings you joy is good, yes? And then we went.
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So we went to a really nice Italian restaurant in Norwich
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called Benoli last night and had a bottle of wine.
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I only had half a bottle of wine, so it's not like you know,
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like I was knocking it back, but I am That does mean that I am
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now like half asleep today, yes should be interesting.
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If I nod off, just wake me up or just like completely forget.
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Well, what would be new if I completely forgot what I was
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saying part way through Yes. But well, happy, happy birthday.
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We are nearly at the end of week 1 of GCS ES and it's going OK.
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I think just one meltdown this week, only one.
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And then there was how many? I didn't have a meltdown.
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How many? Weeks.
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Do they go on for GCS ES these days?
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I don't know, it's a long time. On on 2 So it's two weeks, then
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it's half term and then they have a week and a half.
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It's about four weeks. My, my daughter yesterday was a
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bit like, you know, like I've had enough type of thing.
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And it's like you've just got to keep going.
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You're only in week 1 and she's like.
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Oh yeah, yeah, you can't. You can't have had enough
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already. It's Week 1.
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And it was good because my son was in the room and he was like,
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mate, it's a nightmare. It's it's four weeks, It's 3
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1/2, four weeks, it's a nightmare.
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But when you're finished, it's done.
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You've never got to think about these things again.
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Like just keep going. So that's what it's been like in
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our house. It's just like, just keep going.
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Nothing will all be over, and then, yeah, that's it.
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You'll never have to think about well, mine was far from the
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Madding Crowd, but you'll never have to think about whatever
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stupid book they made you do again.
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Yes, yes, she did today she had her non calculator maths exam
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and she's like after tomorrow I'll never have to do maths in
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my head again ever. And I'm like, well, you might do
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a bit of maths in your head, darling.
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She's like, yeah, but not this kind of maths, you know, like,
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because I've got, I've got calculator.
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And we were just laughing about how we were always told, weren't
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we? You won't always have a
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calculator and we won't always have a calculator with you.
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So me and me and Adam were saying this and Kitty just sat
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there looking at us like we were absolutely crazy.
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Like, what are you talking about?
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Because, of course, she is never not known having a phone.
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Not that she's always had a phone, but you know what I mean?
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Yeah, That was the way we were taught that we had to learn it
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in our head because we won't always have a calculator.
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And funnily enough, we always do.
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Now. Some people have them on their
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smartwatches as well. Still got.
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Yeah, you cut it on your wrist like.
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Multiple calculator? You've got one.
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On your computer? You can use Excel, You've got
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it. There are many, many, many ways
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that you can do maths without needing to do it in your head at
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any point. Yes.
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So, yeah, so that's. Yeah.
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In your face, maths teachers, in your face.
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Although I did have a conversation with my son
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yesterday because he's we're trying to find which halls of
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residents to go into and obviously you have to pay.
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Well, yeah, I don't know. You have to pay.
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We didn't have to pay. You have to pay for your
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accommodation and you have to borrow money to pay if your
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accommodation, but there's a shortfall and how are you going
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to make up the shortfall? So we're doing all this kind of
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maths yesterday and like he's just a bit.
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And it's like they don't teach them that.
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They don't teach them sensible, practical.
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You know how to, how to, yeah, how to work out where you're
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going to get any money from. Just rent it all, all this
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stuff. And yeah, anyway, we've got lots
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to talk about. We have, as ever, no shutting us
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up, though. Yeah, I still might nod off
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halfway through. I'm just going to like lean on
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my microphone. But you lean and let's get into
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it. OK, so I'm going to start this
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week talking about PE trauma because, yeah, I mean, you were
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either at school, the person that liked PE or the person that
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didn't like PE, weren't you? There was no like, oh, this is
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all right. So what sparked me off thinking
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about this was a story in women's running.
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And so they had a piece last week we picked up on a campaign
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that Age UK is running, which is called Act Now Age Better,
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Snappy. It launched on the 21st of
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April. They're running it all through
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the summer. And the big idea is to is aimed
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at 50 to 65 year olds. So you old ladies, not me, I'm
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such a spring chicken. But anyways, aimed at 50 to 65
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year olds to get them moving. And so they've partnered with
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like 40 different sporting organizations across the UK.
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So there's like Pickleball England.
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I don't even really know what pickleball is.
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It's like tennis for people that don't do tennis.
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I think like in badminton, England, the Ramblers and it's
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just basically a huge inclusive push to say come.
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On try some. Sports you might have PE baggage
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from school but that's fine. Here are some beginner lessons
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just like give it a go. So they released some research
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alongside the campaign and that's the bit that made me go
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oh so they say they surveyed. I'm reading this because I will
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get it wrong otherwise. So they surveyed UK adults aged
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50 to 65 and they found that 4.1 million people are still
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traumatized by school PE lessons, 4 million have been put
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off exercise for life because of PE at school and 40% remember
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feeling self-conscious about their body. 40% remember being
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picked last for teams and nearly half which is 6.7 million
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people. Used to dread school PE
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altogether. Wouldn't believe it now
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considering I'm a personal trainer and I run for fun
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apparently and do Pilates and go to the gym.
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But I hated PE at school. I would hide, hide in the
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showers to get out of it. I once swore at a PE teacher
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because, um, we were playing rounders and I was, I was like.
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Oh no, I'm out. And she was like, no, you're not
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get to the back of gets to run at the queue.
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Sorry, no, Okay, so I went again and then I was still out.
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I actually did try and then I swore at her when she tried to
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make me do it again. And then she sent me to see the
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headmistress, but I didn't go. I hid in the toilet.
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So that's my that's my most memorable PE trauma.
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Then followed by all of my classmates trying to persuade
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her that I had a terrible upbringing and my parents didn't
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mind if I swore. And she came in and was like, if
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you ever need to talk about anything, I was like,
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something's gone on here that wasn't paying attention to.
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I didn't have a terrible upbringing, by the way.
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I had a wonderful upbringing. OK, mom.
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So yeah, I mean, I think you put up something the other day about
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pee knickers, didn't you? On Instagram.
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Yeah, pee knickers. We had to wear Big Blue pants
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and a white vest. I was with.
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Green. Green under the netball.
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Skirt. We didn't.
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We just wore them. I'll see.
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We had a netball skirt and then we had a white air techs air
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tech shirt. Again, cross country in the
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rain, always fun. And then she just like hide in
8:40
the bushes. So there's kind of several
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threads, I guess that would run through this.
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So there's the the PE trauma that we had that we're already
8:50
getting specific about. So we will talk about PE trauma.
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There's the fact that this hasn't changed in 30 years.
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Girls at school particularly are still basically leaving school
9:00
with trauma about being forced to go running in the rain.
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And they probably don't have panic is anymore, but you know,
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there's still. All I can tell you about that,
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remember, remind, remember to ask me about the PE rules, about
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girls and they and their PE kits currently in schools.
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Oh okay, yeah, I'm sure that will come up.
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And then there's how it's then after they've traumatized us at
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school, then when we hit our adult years, they try and sell
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it back to us. But as the Wellness industry by
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supplement brands and workout videos and the whole Wellness
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industry selling us, selling us all these things, words like
9:39
toned and lean and, and all the other words that mean absolutely
9:44
nothing, obviously. So they then they, they
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traumatize us, sell it back to us when we get older.
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And then there's the Age UK campaign itself, of course,
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which I think is genuinely good, you know, because they are
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trying to promote activity as something that will make you
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feel good. And that's something you do for
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itself rather than to burn calories or look pretty or get
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lean and long and toned. OK, first of all I want you to
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tell me about the school PE rules because otherwise I will
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forget to ask you. Oh, I think it's just obviously
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we'll talk about our own PE experiences in a second.
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I think it's nothing's changed apart from they don't have to
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wear knickers. The sporty ones are sporty, get
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picked, win all the awards, go and you know, put in the
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newsletters about how amazing they've done.
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The non sporty people are just sort of forgotten or almost not.
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I will say ridicule. It's the wrong word.
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You know, there's this, you have to, but you have to be into
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sport because sport is good and of course sport fitness is good,
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but it's this kind of pressure is still there.
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My son, you know, didn't like play football for about a year
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because he felt he had to, he hated it and everyone was like,
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but he needs to play sport. But it's like he's a drummer,
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he's fit, like he's drumming for 4 to 5 minutes, hard drumming.
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You know, he's not like weak. But also the uniform, you know,
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the girls, it's they have to wear.
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They're not, it's just things like then they're not allowed to
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wear leggings because you can see the outline under your bum,
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which is what leggings do. Do you know what I mean?
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So they have to make sports over their leggings as a rule, right?
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So they've gone the other way. So we, I was sent out with a big
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pair of blue knickers and a white vest and it was like, get
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on with it whether you're cold or not or feel odd or not or
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whatever. Whereas now it's like you can
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wear leggings, but you have to wear shorts over the top because
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leggings are too tight. And, you know, it's things like
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that. So they're still doesn't.
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So they're not, they're not, it's the opposite.
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And it's just like, oh, for God's sake, My, my daughter was
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in, had a detention because she'd lost her shorts and she
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just wore leggings, you know, and like, does it matter?
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And yeah. And and she my, my daughter
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seems to do with PE just like I did, which is like hang around
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in the what's the room where you bang your coat crew changing.
12:01
Room. Yeah.
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You know, like, literally just like, hide in there.
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I think that's what she does. She seems to walk off in PE and
12:08
hide underneath the tree. And so I don't think much has
12:10
changed, actually. I think it's still like, you
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have to do it and you must enjoy it.
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And without recognizing that some people just don't like
12:19
enjoy it. It makes me.
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It makes me really sad. I mean, one of the stats that
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I've got, and I actually did myself a stats box this time
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after keep going, oh, where are they all?
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Is that 36% of girls versus 24% of boys avoid PE because of how
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they look? Again, I feel that like the
12:37
minute they start flagging that up to girls as every time you
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put your PE con you can't wear this because it's too tight,
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then we're like flagging up immediately.
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It's worth saying that they are, well actually I'm not sure if
12:50
they are now, but when my son was at school you had like a
12:54
tiered PE. So you had boys that are really
12:58
good at PES group, girls that are really good at PES group and
13:02
they're segregated. And then you have all the people
13:05
that don't give two hoops about PE or are really rubbish at it
13:10
all together. So they do actually now separate
13:12
the really good ones. So maybe there's less of that
13:15
you're not being, but it's a bit like you've got all the people
13:18
that really don't care all together.
13:21
But yeah, I mean, it's I mean the whole like shorts over your
13:23
leggings thing is, as you said, it's making an issue.
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It's a non issue because girls walk around with leggings on
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outside of school the entire time.
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But yeah, girls, I can imagine. I think the boys, I think like
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only talk about our school. The boys will do football.
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So, So what happens is the top group, boys do football and they
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all love football and they go on, you know, they're the people
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that play football all, all the time.
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And the girls group will do netball and they all play
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netball. They're all in the, you know,
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the netball team that play around the county.
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And then the good thing is, is the other group play range of
13:55
interesting sports per term. So they did backgammon for one
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term. Backgammon.
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My God, badminton backgammon would be amazing.
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That's my kind of sport. Backgammon. 2 backgammon on the
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beach in Greece, which is where I always used to play.
14:10
No badminton. And he loved it because because
14:13
he wasn't made to play football. It's like when I was at school
14:15
being made to play hockey, I didn't want to play hockey.
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You know, if I could have played badminton or something,
14:21
something just a bit different, I might have enjoyed it more.
14:24
And he loved doing that, but he hated football.
14:27
Yeah, it just, I get so angry about the way see, when you when
14:31
you say that they're like segregating off the ones that
14:34
are good and then putting everyone else together.
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The first things I get there is that they're sticking people who
14:38
don't really like the sport and are already self-conscious about
14:42
their bodies in a group with a load of other people who are
14:46
feeling exactly the same way and with boys.
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So that feels like an issue to me.
14:50
That's not exactly going to instill in them a love of Ping.
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So that group aren't that competitive.
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So I think the the theme is slightly different.
15:00
Not that I'm defending my kids school by any, any shape or
15:02
form, but I think the top groups, I don't think they're
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called the top groups, but you know what I mean?
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The sport groups are very competitive and they play
15:10
competitively outside school and in the PE lessons where I think
15:14
all the others don't really care.
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And then I think it's almost like just get some exercise.
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Everybody come on. Yes, and nobody cares who wins
15:23
if you know it. So I think it's a little just a
15:25
little bit more chilled. But I do get the fact that they
15:28
will probably not be inspired necessarily to be ambitious.
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But then again, I kind of feel like not everybody has to be a
15:35
kind of real like my daughter. My daughter played football for
15:38
quite a few years in the county for her local team, you know,
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and then she decided she didn't want to do anymore and the
15:44
amount of people in my family and around going, oh, what she
15:48
going to do now? Then she needs a hobby.
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She needs a hobby and it's like she does have a hobby.
15:53
Her hobby is music and, and, and makeup and it's that's not a
15:57
hobby. And I'm like, do you know what
15:58
15 year old girls are like? You know, that's actually what a
16:01
lot of 15 year old girls love doing, reading and watching
16:05
Glee. She watches and whatever, you
16:07
know, and that's what she enjoys doing.
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Doesn't have to do a sport. And I think I always felt, and
16:11
maybe this is linked into this, you have to like sport.
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But I just didn't. I don't.
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Is it really that I? Still don't.
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I still don't really. I think, And I think that's one
16:21
of the things is you get, it's like they define you when you're
16:24
at school as you are either sporty or not sporty.
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Yes, and I was not sporty and therefore could not play sport.
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But I mean, I still don't think of myself as sporty.
16:34
Like do you know what I mean? I like, I like makeup, I like
16:38
shoes. I also happened to like going to
16:41
the gym and now I like running. And it turns out you can do all
16:45
of those things without having to be a sporty human.
16:48
As a human being. It's not like you are the sporty
16:50
crowd or the not sporty crowd. And I think that that's one of
16:52
the things that's like missing with the way they kind of teach
16:56
this to kids, is that, oh, you're not sporty.
16:59
Well. And I was without us, didn't
17:01
they? Yeah, I mean, when I was like
17:03
primary school age, I used to love gymnastics and I would
17:06
love, you know, I loved some of the things, but, well, but
17:10
because I wasn't great at it, I would then quite often get like,
17:14
you know, excluded. And therefore I never got to be
17:17
any good at it. And I kind of learnt that I
17:19
wasn't sporty and therefore stopped doing anything at all
17:22
and started hiding in the changing rooms.
17:24
So I wasn't allowed, you weren't allowed to do things just
17:28
because it was kind of fun. You know, you had to be, you had
17:31
to be good at it and you had to be competitive.
17:34
And that's a few years back there was, I can't remember who
17:39
it was now, there was a politician who was talking about
17:42
girls wanting to be pretty well, they played sports.
17:44
And we're talking about, I see these roller skaters and they're
17:47
all got sparkly things and their hair's all done nicely.
17:50
And you go. But then you're teaching people
17:52
that you can do both at the same time, which is, you know, fine
17:55
if you want to, but also you're making it all about that.
17:58
It just, oh, it really, it does frustrate me so much with what
18:01
I've learned as an adult. And, you know, I genuinely
18:04
played a competitive sport at kind of, you know, I mean, a
18:07
decent enough level that BBC Sport showed one of our games.
18:11
Do you know what I mean? Like it's not, you know, I am
18:14
sporty, but we didn't have to be a sporty person to be.
18:19
Sporty, I don't know if I ever was a sporty person.
18:22
I, I, I skived PE for most, most of the time.
18:26
I was absolutely traumatized. I was traumatized by swimming.
18:29
We had a swimming pool and it was freezing and we used to have
18:32
to dive in, swim a whip, get out and wait for our partner to do
18:36
the same. So you were in, out, in, out and
18:38
it was horrible. And we didn't have showers.
18:41
So you then had to, you couldn't be late to your next lesson.
18:44
So you had to get changed really, really quickly.
18:45
No shower, no hair dryer, nothing.
18:48
And almost just put your uniform on it over your damp body and
18:51
rush off to the next lesson. And you, the only way you got
18:55
out of swimming was to have a period.
18:57
And you'd say I have my period and I think I had a period at
19:00
three weeks out of every month so that I never had to do
19:03
swimming. How they I got away with it, I
19:04
don't know. And they used to then in the
19:06
register, but a big pee next to your on the register.
19:10
So you were either there or you were pee because you had your
19:13
period. So I think, I think swimming
19:16
that experience traumatized me because I, I will go swimming,
19:19
but I don't like being underwater.
19:20
I don't like being cold, you know.
19:22
So I think that did. But the rest I think to myself,
19:26
I was thinking in preparation to this, you know, how am IA sporty
19:29
person? Was I not?
19:30
I just I don't think I was bad at it.
19:33
I wasn't like pick last, but I just didn't enjoy it.
19:36
I just couldn't be bothered. Like I was really into music and
19:40
I was just not into sport, you know, And it was just like,
19:44
that's OK, But it wasn't OK. It was definitely not OK back in
19:48
the day. And we had to wear leotards as
19:50
well as we were going through puberty.
19:54
And you know, I just remember, you know, your body's changing
19:57
and hair is growing and all this stuff is going on and we have to
20:02
wear these like little. Leotards and it's like, no, no,
20:05
see, this is this is another thing is I think that's the
20:08
thing as well is, is thinking about whether you have to enjoy
20:12
sport or that kind of to me, one of the things that people need
20:16
to to know is that they don't moving your body and doing some
20:20
form of activity isn't any different.
20:23
It's looking after yourself. It's like washing your hair and
20:26
brushing your teeth, right. It's something that you need to
20:28
do to look after yourself. It doesn't have to be
20:31
competitive. It doesn't have to you don't
20:34
have to be good at it. You just some kind of movement
20:38
dancing, you know, getting out of breath a couple of times a
20:40
week and picking up something heavy is something that you have
20:43
to do to look after yourself the same as brushing your teeth or
20:46
otherwise, or your teeth will fall out.
20:48
I know. But then I also think, and this
20:50
is where the campaign, obviously it's really good because it's
20:53
really important that women in my age bracket are moving now to
20:57
have a better age. I get it.
20:59
But I also feel like every time I turn on the Internet, there's
21:03
another thing I have to do. And so the mess it's, it's, I
21:08
suppose the question back to then is how to kind of get that
21:12
message across in a non preachy way.
21:14
You know, I have adults, older people in their 70s in my life
21:19
and they didn't do that much exercise.
21:20
And they are OK as well, but they did walk.
21:24
But when you go online, it's almost like walking is not
21:26
exercise. And it's like, well, actually,
21:28
if I walk, I'm moving. It's all good.
21:31
You know, this is the thing over there.
21:35
I have to, I have to rewind, by the way, because I have a story
21:39
about getting changed after swimming, which I really cannot
21:41
leave this topic without telling because when I was at school, we
21:45
had a French teacher that nobody really liked.
21:48
I won't say his name, he won't be listening, but you know, I
21:50
won't say his name. But he got quite angry because
21:53
we were always late after we had PE before French, and we were
21:57
always late afterwards because we were getting changed, which
22:00
for the record is something. Not giving girls the opportunity
22:03
to get changed properly after PE is a thing that does get flagged
22:06
up as a reason they hate it. So he said to us that we should
22:09
come to French in our PE kits, but we had swimming.
22:13
So one day we decided we were going to take him at his word
22:17
and we actually bought dry swimming costumes to change
22:20
into. I love this.
22:22
Story we all turned up to French at like 14 years old in our
22:27
swimsuits and brilliant yeah, but that was entertaining.
22:30
I don't think he really knew what to do with a room full of
22:33
14 year old girls wearing swimsuits.
22:34
And after that, he was fine. We were allowed to change.
22:36
So yeah, that was that was I just couldn't get out of that
22:41
without telling that story because I really not that I
22:44
would ever encourage anyone to do that if they're teachers, but
22:46
definitely you should probably do that if they get, if they
22:49
keep on at you because that's the only way, you know, he was
22:52
so angry. But the PA teachers weren't
22:54
letting us go early so that we had time to actually change
22:56
before French. So something had to give.
22:58
Didn't know we had exactly the same thing as in you couldn't
23:01
get to the next lesson. And I think now if you're one
23:04
minute in our school, if you're one minute late to a lesson
23:07
twice, you have an after school detention and it's on a rolling.
23:11
So you, you will, because you've got to get from one side of the
23:15
building, you know, one side of the campus to the other.
23:18
And obviously if you have had PE, you've got to get changed
23:20
too. So it's just, yeah, it's I, I
23:23
don't think I'm traumatized by it as such.
23:26
I just, I quite liked leaving school and not having to play
23:31
hockey, you know, like I don't have to play hockey again or
23:34
netball. Great.
23:35
I'm really happy with that. But I do have friends that are
23:38
getting back into netball and for and, you know, and they've
23:41
joined the local team. So they're, you know, actually
23:42
quite a few of the mums here in a netball team.
23:45
So there are people doing that. But I think they were, I think
23:49
they were the sporty ones at school.
23:51
You know what I mean? I mean, see, this is because
23:55
obviously I was in a Rolly Derby team for years.
23:57
So and I didn't get into that. That was like my mid 30s.
24:00
I started getting into that and I'd started running maybe a year
24:03
or so before that, which started with literally just thinking I
24:08
was, I was going to get fit and lose some weight.
24:10
And then discovered that I actually kind of enjoyed just
24:13
the thing of going running. And, but I love stats.
24:16
So I only really got into running once I discovered, you
24:19
know, that you could record it on your phone and I could look
24:21
and like, go, oh, how did I do? And how did I, how did I do with
24:25
this? I just one of the things that
24:27
you were saying then about going on, every time you go online,
24:30
there's something else you've got to do.
24:32
That's the Wellness industry is then start selling it back to us
24:35
once they've made us hate PE and think that we have to be sporty
24:38
and competitive. We can't just be moving our
24:40
body. Then we get to, well, you know,
24:43
whatever you're already doing is not good enough.
24:45
You need to buy one of those stupid booty bands that they
24:48
were selling us a few years ago or, you know, whatever they're
24:51
selling to us now. Like if you want, well, if you
24:54
want to do this, this is Jennifer Aniston's Wellness
24:56
routine and her exercise routine.
24:58
And you have to do Pilates, but Matt Pilates isn't good enough.
25:01
You have to do reformer Pilates or you have to do some new
25:04
made-up exercise, which is basically the same as all the
25:07
old exercises. And you know, and that somehow
25:10
it's all about sculpting yourself into a specific shape
25:15
rather than being strong and still being able to walk up the
25:19
stairs or get up out of a chair without using your arms or carry
25:22
your shopping bags. And I think that that's, that's
25:25
then where it falls down and fails us.
25:27
Then again, when when we're adults is by telling us all that
25:31
nonsense, frankly. Totally.
25:34
And I think so score for me was avoiding PE and then for 20 in
25:39
my 20s, I was running around and going out and just having fun.
25:43
Although I got married to somebody so it wasn't that fun.
25:47
But anyway, I think I then got back into exercise probably in
25:54
my early 30s, but it was 100% linked to how I looked, not how
26:00
strong I was. Although I did go to the gym.
26:03
I, I mean, I used to do yoga like 4 times a week, like
26:07
sessions. So I was really supple and I was
26:09
really good at it. I found something I was good at.
26:11
So that was another thing. I think that's, you know, that's
26:14
quite important in that. But if I'm really honest,
26:17
looking back, was I doing it to be strong or was I doing it to
26:22
be sculpted and toned and all those things that are a bit
26:25
rubbish? Must you know, like, you know,
26:26
like it was probably about how I looked as well.
26:30
And I think that's, I mean, is it that bad that you're doing
26:34
sport because you want to look good?
26:35
Because actually, if you're doing sport or doing exercise,
26:37
it's it's good. You need to do it.
26:38
But it's the way it's sold to us, isn't it?
26:40
That it's kind of toned arms. You need to tone up your arms
26:44
and it's like, well, it would be better to talk about lifting so
26:48
that you can lift yourself up or, you know, hold your
26:51
shopping, as you said that would, you know, when you're
26:54
older, that would be probably a more positive message than
26:57
talking about toned arms, you know, because of, you know,
26:59
otherwise you need to cover them because they're not toned.
27:01
You know that kind of message. They don't even sell it as
27:03
looking good, do they? They do it.
27:05
They sell it as looking a specific way yes, actually,
27:10
that's it's not like you know, look your best.
27:13
It's look like this. I don't know why Jennifer
27:16
Aniston's just stuck in my head now, but you know, it's just you
27:19
know look like Kim Kardashian. They go.
27:22
I do know another celebrity, quite extreme there, but anyway,
27:25
those two. No, you're right.
27:29
And it's sold to us. I think that's the point.
27:32
So rather than especially say, if you're 60, your parents, your
27:36
mum might still be alive, you're seeing some of her health
27:40
issues, for example. Or, you know, so rather than
27:43
talking about aging positively and strongly so that you you can
27:47
be as fit as you can be forever, you know, that kind of thing.
27:51
It's still like, yeah, toned arms or you must do this.
27:56
And that's the this that's the problem I have.
27:58
You must you must whilst making sure that you have 140 grams of
28:01
protein and whilst you make sure you have 10 hours and you know,
28:04
and it's just like mate, I'm just trying to get through the
28:06
day you. Can't walk.
28:07
You have to run. But if you're running and you
28:08
stop to walk, that's not running anymore.
28:10
Or like, oh, you're not running. And then if you're running,
28:12
you're not running fast enough. Exactly.
28:14
And I think that's the message that is out there on Love, very
28:18
much aimed at menopausal women, women in their fees.
28:22
Obviously, I know the algorithm will be showing me that because
28:25
that's me. But the marketing has shifted.
28:29
I mean, I'm sure it's still there to the younger 30 year
28:32
old, be sculpted, be sculpted, look a certain way.
28:35
Now it's like you've got to be strong, you've got to be fit.
28:37
You do this, do this and it's just like lift heavy, lift
28:40
heavy. And I get it and I understand it
28:43
because it is important, but it's like overwhelming to the
28:47
majority of people, and that's another one of the issues.
28:51
You have to start where you are and I think that that's one of
28:53
the things that maybe this Age UK can pay can be really useful
28:57
in is part of me is a bit sad that it's Age UK because it's
29:02
aimed at midlife women. And when people think of Age UK,
29:05
they start to think of like elderly people and campaigns
29:09
about, you know, people having their heating on and stuff,
29:11
which is kind of a shame. But if we can get past that, the
29:15
idea is, is just to get people moving, doing something they
29:18
enjoy anything. And I just love the idea that
29:21
they're doing like beginners classes and things like that and
29:24
like stuff that you can give stuff a go and you, you know,
29:27
because there is a whole joy in meeting people socially and
29:31
doing these kind of things as well.
29:33
Like some of the kind of like social slow social runs I've
29:37
been on and things like that. You meet people.
29:39
That's what there are some thinking about what we talked
29:42
about last week, about last week about community living women
29:46
over 50 / 60 / 70 wanting friendships and those kind of
29:50
support. That's a great way to get them,
29:52
isn't it? Yeah.
29:53
They've got some really great ambassadors in it as well, one
29:55
of whom is Dame Kelly Holmes, who used to run around.
29:59
Run. I'm just, I'm doing a little
30:01
running impression. Anyone who's not watching?
30:03
A bit of running Olympian. Yes, but she used to train.
30:06
She is from Kent where I'm from, and she used to train running
30:09
around the lake near where my house was.
30:11
And my mom and dad used to walk the dogs around there and be
30:13
like, Oh my God, please don't trip Kelly Holmes over.
30:15
Please don't trip Kelly Holmes over.
30:17
But she she is one of their ambassadors.
30:19
She said it's about and she said, which is what I was saying
30:22
earlier. So this is her quote.
30:24
It's about self-care, making new connections, feeling team
30:27
spirit, supporting mental health, getting outside, feeling
30:30
strong and capable for as long as possible.
30:33
And I think that that just just sums it up.
30:36
So I think it's a great campaign and I'm glad that we got to talk
30:39
about it. I have a link which we will put
30:42
in the notes. It's the ageuk.org.uk/act.
30:47
Now we can go and have a look. Maybe we could go play
30:50
pickleball. OK, or.
30:51
Badminton. And no, I meant backgammon, not
30:54
badminton, backgammon. Goodness me, I can't get my
30:57
lexicon together with badminton and backgammon today.
31:06
Moving on from sport, I want to talk about fashion.
31:10
This something that I like because I don't like sport.
31:13
I want to talk about Olivia Rodrigo.
31:15
So Olivia Rodrigo, just for anyone that doesn't know, is a
31:20
very popular artist, 23 year old, has come through the Disney
31:25
ranks and is incredibly successful, just like other
31:30
young women that we've talked about Chapel Rowan, Sabrina
31:32
Carpenter and the like. She has a new album out and
31:36
she's doing like a real promotion for it.
31:38
She's doing some shows and there's videos obviously as they
31:42
as they do and she is wearing a baby doll dress in all of the
31:48
marketing. She has various different ones,
31:50
very, very short baby doll dress with kind of her knickers on
31:54
show when she's like sort of dancing around and her knickers
31:57
are quite sort of bloomer like. And that is we're not her pee
32:02
knickers, not her pee knickers. Definitely a bit of really
32:05
bloomery things and it's divided the Internet and what I what
32:11
thought I'd do before we go on and talk about baby doll dresses
32:15
is I'm going to share all the arguments because there's a lot
32:18
of them and you'll see how complex this issue is rather
32:23
than young girl wears a short dress narrative.
32:26
OK, so the first thing that I'm hearing or reading is lots and
32:32
lots and lots and lots of people are very, very upset about what
32:36
she's wearing because the dress is showing too much.
32:41
Basically all her legs are on show and she can see her
32:43
knickers and it's too sexual. She should be.
32:46
She should be far more modest and especially when this is
32:53
something I think we've talked about before, actually, when a
32:55
young woman has come up through the Disney ranks or whatever and
32:59
we have seen them as children. When they're in their, it's
33:03
Olivia's 23. They often play around with new
33:06
looks, wear different amounts of clothing and people do get very,
33:10
very upset. I think it's partly because
33:11
they've perceived them still as this child.
33:13
But actually she's a she's a grown woman.
33:16
And so there's obviously there's lots of people sort of talking
33:18
about that. But then the counter argument to
33:20
that is stop policing what women where.
33:23
If she wants to show her legs, she can show her legs, she
33:26
should be allowed to show her legs.
33:27
And actually, let's not, it's verging into kind of victim
33:32
blaming mentality of what was she wearing, you know, if
33:36
something happens to her, that kind of thing.
33:38
But then the counter argument to that has been around, why are so
33:43
many female artists wearing very little clothing on stage
33:49
compared to men? Are they being made to?
33:52
Is it a prerequisite? But then the argument to that
33:55
is, is they're dancing, they're wearing, you know that you
33:57
you're not going to wear lots and lots of clothes if you're
33:59
doing a big dance routine. So there's lots of sort of
34:01
conversations around modesty. There's also been a lot of I've
34:07
got a list all these arguments. I'm settled.
34:11
In crack on the. Other argument is around the
34:14
childlike nature of the baby dress doll dress, because it's a
34:18
baby doll dress, not a baby dress.
34:20
And also it's I'm going to put it out there.
34:22
One of the ones that's being shared a lot is design hasn't
34:24
been designed by Chloe. You know, she hasn't literally
34:27
made it herself or, you know, it's a designer dress.
34:30
Lots and lots of people talking about in the current climate
34:33
with the kind of Epstein files and the whole kind of, yeah, you
34:37
know, it just feels a bit icky to be dressing as a child when
34:42
you are an adult. And then that's led on to people
34:45
talking about kind of this youth culture, you know, how women in
34:48
the public eye and let's face it, just women in general, the,
34:51
the the want is to be as young as possible and how youth is
34:55
seen as more important than ageing.
34:57
You know, like, so there's that whole debate around like, why
35:00
does she want to look young? She shouldn't be trying to look
35:03
young. And then the counter argument to
35:04
that is it's just fashion. It's vintage.
35:08
It's a vintage look. We'll talk about this, I'm sure.
35:11
But, you know, design, you know, the concept of baby doll dress
35:14
in the late it became really popular late 50s and in the 60s,
35:19
I've started off as kind of lingerie nightwear.
35:21
And then it moved into, you know, Twiggy with her doll like
35:25
makeup and Jane Birkin with her really, really short baby doll
35:28
dresses. That was then reimagined in the
35:32
90s with Courtney Love. The argument has been to that,
35:35
though, is that that, you know, they Courtney Love wore a baby
35:39
doll dress as a real act of rebellion.
35:41
And is Olivia doing that? Or is she just, you know, is she
35:44
being made to? I wear it.
35:46
I've got two more. I will stop talking.
35:48
The next argument, so many arguments is why is femininity
35:54
so sexualized? So why can't I like pink and
35:58
fluffy and frilly things without it being classed as too sexual?
36:02
You know, it's a bit like Legally Blonde.
36:05
You know, she couldn't be blonde and like pink and be clever.
36:08
And then the final thing whilst we're on the fashion is that
36:11
there's lots and lots of people saying, well, I just love it as
36:14
a look and I would wear it. And actually I went to festivals
36:18
last year, I went to Transmit festival and it was full of
36:21
young women, teenage girls wearing little frilly shorts
36:25
that looked a bit like knickers. You know, it's, it's kind of
36:28
just fascia. So loads to unpick, but what I'd
36:33
love to do is start the fashion vintage bit and then we'll move
36:38
on to the whole. Is it appropriate?
36:40
And you know, why do female artists feel that they have to
36:43
wear fewer clothes than the men? So baby doll dresses, have you
36:47
ever worn a Oh, actually, I probably should say for anyone
36:50
listening, a baby doll dress is literally a dress that is super,
36:54
super short, a bit like that dolls used to wear.
36:58
So they're they're generally not always quite really like puffy
37:01
sleeved. Sure, they'll have a little bit
37:03
of brocade on or ribbon on or like ultra feminine, I would
37:08
say, and very short so that you can see knickers as well.
37:13
Not always, but sometimes. Generally knickers designed to
37:16
be shown. Exactly.
37:19
The kind of the kind of look that you're on about is that,
37:22
you know, you're essentially wearing a top and some very
37:25
short shorts like. A long range and short shorts.
37:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But it's, you know, it's a very
37:32
specific look with that kind of look that you're on about.
37:36
I was I was a he's riot girl. So I'm going to immediately go
37:41
with with yes, I didn't go a lot into the kind of lace and stuff
37:47
because that wasn't really my my style.
37:49
But yeah, I mean, I, I wore like tiny little dresses over the
37:52
shorts and very short shorts and weird colored tights and, you
37:56
know, but I was into that. So yes, the baby doll dress is
37:59
definitely a look that I'm familiar with.
38:02
I'm just like going through my brain trying to remember what
38:04
outfits I had when I was a teenager.
38:06
I didn't do a lot of the like the lot of the like Lacy stuff
38:09
with the riot girl thing, but I had like an orange plastic
38:13
handbag and pink beads and all that kind of stuff when I was
38:16
like playing with it. But yes, basically.
38:19
And I think when you say it's just fashion, I could go on
38:24
about that for ages because fashion is never just fashion,
38:26
is it? None of this is ever just.
38:29
There's no such thing as just fashion, because fashion is very
38:33
much not as shallow as. Oh yeah, yeah, I wasn't implied
38:38
as. Boys like to think it is.
38:41
Yeah, yeah. I wasn't implying that, but it's
38:43
almost like. Yeah, Yeah.
38:45
No, I know that you wouldn't be because we, I think we very much
38:49
align on this particular fashion is not that simple topic.
38:54
But when it was a fashion in kind of the 90s, I see what
38:56
you're saying is that it was very subversive, like it was
38:59
about subverting that male gaze kind of thing.
39:02
And like what? I can walk around in my pants if
39:05
I like, you know, and. I think Courtney lovers said,
39:09
you know, it was also like, oh, so you want me to be ultra
39:12
feminine and girly and, you know, OK, I will.
39:15
So here I am. But then she'll have smudged
39:17
lipstick and a ripped and ripped and scruffy with it.
39:21
Yeah, Yeah, I know. I, I used to, I used to go to
39:26
the charity shop and buy 70s dresses in the 90s.
39:29
I had two dresses of my, of my grandma's and I cut them up.
39:32
So they were so short that I had to wear big knickers with them,
39:36
which were basically just black, tiny hot pants because I cut
39:40
them so short. I mean, I'm a few years older
39:42
than you as well. So I would have been in my early
39:45
20s at that point. And they were, they were
39:49
obscene. Have seen as in I had to wear.
39:52
You were old. You were old enough that your
39:53
mum wasn't going to stop you. Yeah, yeah.
39:55
But. They would, they were very short
39:57
and I used to go at these silver hot pants that were just pants.
40:01
In hindsight, they were just, but then my mum in the 60s
40:06
probably had hot pants that were just pants as well.
40:08
So it's kind of a bit cyclical, this isn't it?
40:11
See. Again, there is always that.
40:12
There is always a lot of blaming with fashion as well.
40:14
I think some of it's to do with like I wrote something about
40:18
this recently and there was always a lot of wider men assume
40:22
that we wear clothes for them was what a lot of people said.
40:25
And so when people talk about this, the like the fashion of
40:30
like the baby doll dress or anything like that in particular
40:34
and that it's too sexual and like, Oh my gosh, like men can
40:38
see your pants. Why do we assume that we are
40:41
wearing these things for men and that we.
40:44
Because of whatever we've got on, we want men to look at us
40:48
maybe. Yeah.
40:49
When you get dressed, who do you think might like what you're
40:52
wearing, Kate? That's a good question, isn't
40:54
it? Me actually, anyone else?
40:57
Because I mean the only person that I mean my audience first
41:00
and foremost, I think. I think this looks nice.
41:03
Yeah, me. I go or I go.
41:05
I think, yeah. Secondly, I think other women
41:08
might like this. I don't think it has ever at any
41:12
point in my life made me have I thought or maybe boys will like
41:16
this, men will like this, whatever.
41:18
Like even, you know, when I was single and on the pull, I don't
41:23
know for one of a better word, which I don't think I ever was
41:26
on the pull. But you know, I thought, do I
41:28
look and do I think I look and feel nice?
41:30
Does my mate think I look and feel real nice?
41:33
You know when I go out, if a woman says to me I love your
41:35
jacket, that's my whole day made.
41:38
That is like if a bloke says I love your jacket, I think oh
41:42
God, I'll never wear this again. Then that's obviously obviously
41:46
the wrong message going out with this jacket.
41:48
But I think that's. It's really important and it's
41:51
particularly important towards Olivia Rodrigo and even Sabrina
41:54
Carpenter, who is the other celebrity, a singer that wears
41:57
little baby doll. She wears baby doll lingerie.
42:00
So what would have been the original 40s fifties baby doll,
42:03
little sort of penis. Penis.
42:05
Yeah, it's it's what sets. A ping wiser thing.
42:09
It's where you have the it's like a little frilly dressing
42:12
gown that's not a dressing gown with the matching.
42:14
Doesn't have masting pants, but I do have a little I.
42:17
Mean, I wear those anyway. They get a lot of backlash from
42:21
men and women around being too sexual.
42:25
But one of the things Sabrina Carpenter says is I am not here
42:29
for the male gaze. My audience is all women
42:32
generally and they love it, you know, like it's that expert, as
42:36
you said, people presume if you're wearing very short dress
42:40
or a revealing dress or a see through dress or whatever, that
42:43
it's for the male gaze. And Olivia Rodriguez would we
42:46
go? Sorry, her fan base is is young
42:49
women. Like she's not trying, you know,
42:52
she's just literally having fun with a look.
42:55
But there is, I think the argument around this, it's it's
42:58
the femininity. Like why can't I wear something
43:02
a revealing because I want to, but also if I want it to be?
43:06
Because what she's wearing is quite frilly and pretty, as is
43:10
Sabrina Carpenter. Like why does that have to be
43:13
seen as so bad? Because I'm allowed to like
43:16
frivolous, pretty cutesy things as a woman without it being
43:21
what's the word put down or or sexualized.
43:24
Well, I mean that's just a standard thing with isn't it?
43:26
Like chick flick, chick lit, like anything women are into is
43:31
frivolous and unserious. Anything men are into is the
43:36
important. It's like old fashioned fashion
43:39
and makeup is fashion and makeup is frivolous.
43:41
Football is very important, obviously.
43:44
It's the fangirl, you know, 16 year old, 12 year old girls
43:47
screaming at One Direction. You know, they're just just
43:50
hysterical as the press, you know, everyone says but you
43:53
know, boys or lads watching the football crying because their
43:57
team has has lost that not hysterical but we are loving.
44:02
I mean, that comes up a lot, isn't it?
44:04
Like how men have managed to frame women as the emotional
44:07
ones because somehow they've convinced us all that anger
44:09
isn't an emotion. Exactly, and also they do cry
44:12
when their team loses so. Yeah, but that's OK.
44:15
Yeah, I think that that's that feels like it just a standard
44:20
thing across anything that like, if it's not, if it's not for
44:23
men, who is it for? Like we're not allowed.
44:25
We're not allowed anything for anything for ourselves.
44:28
Why? Can't we do?
44:29
There is definitely that, but there's.
44:31
Like. What about there's a big
44:32
argument obviously in the current climate as well, around
44:36
why you should be. Why is she infant?
44:40
What's the word infantilizing? Can't speak infantilizing
44:44
herself even though she's got long boots on and it's you know
44:47
which she looks very like a polished 6 version of 1992.
44:53
She's got long DMS on as well so she's not like do you know what
44:56
I mean? But.
44:57
Yeah, I saw that. I like the picture.
44:59
I I swear I saw this, some of the pictures of her.
45:01
This is what it is. It is very much a call back both
45:04
to like the 60s and to the mid 90s, kind of like reinvention of
45:08
this of this. And one of the dresses she's
45:11
worn was Jane Birkins dress. So she's actually, there are
45:15
nods, but lots of people are saying that it's, it's really
45:19
like not you should not be doing this in 2026.
45:23
So in other words, well, you might have done it in 1992 and
45:26
you might have done it in 1969 or whenever, you know, whenever.
45:30
But in the current climate, you should not be doing this
45:34
because, you know, it's like the whole, I know Britney Spears, a
45:37
schoolgirl or whatever, you know, it's just like it's
45:40
gripping people. It's just icky for a better
45:43
word. But then is she responsible for
45:46
what's going on in the world, or is she just wearing a a cute
45:50
dress? I get it, but my first instinct
45:54
is just to go, well, those guys have nothing to do with what I
45:58
choose to wear. Like I'm not wearing it for
46:01
them. I'm not not wearing it.
46:03
And then you're not on stage, I suppose, in the public eye.
46:07
Yeah. Yeah, I just know.
46:09
Too depressing. That's it.
46:10
Next question. Move on.
46:12
OK. This is another one.
46:13
What? So when I've been talking to
46:15
people about the whole kind of riot girl thing, and they're
46:18
like, this is different because some man has decided she's
46:21
wearing this. And I'm like, well, we don't
46:23
actually know that for a start. But then that leads you on to
46:26
the conversation around, you know, whether it's Taylor Swift
46:29
or Beyoncé leotards, to name, you know, for a better word.
46:33
I mean, obviously there's sequins and there's feathers and
46:35
there's all, you know, showgirl outfits or whatever.
46:37
But ultimately, there are. They're wearing leotards, but
46:41
the men aren't. Like, is there a requirement, do
46:44
you think, for female performers to be wearing fewer and fewer
46:49
clothes? And I think that's something
46:51
quite interesting because you get performers that do, male
46:56
performers that do then start playing around with their
46:58
outfits a little bit more. I'm not very, I'm not very good
47:01
at this. So.
47:02
But it was it there? Was it Sam was Sam Smith?
47:04
Yeah, a few years ago, a Harry Styles baby.
47:07
Another one who likes to yeah, wears play around with his on
47:10
stage. He's on stage looks.
47:12
So there are male performers that like to go a little bit
47:16
more kind of out there. But again, I think it that then
47:21
starts, but a lot of them get a lot of criticism for it as well.
47:24
And I think that that ties back into the, you know, that's
47:28
frivolous, whereas you should be.
47:30
Are you making serious art? It's not serious art if you're
47:33
wearing sequins and feathers. I think there's a bit of that,
47:36
but there are definitely, women are definitely wearing less.
47:39
I remember on the Brit, I think it was the Brit Awards, Liam
47:42
Payne from One Direction was singing a duet with Rita Ora and
47:46
he was fully clothed and she had on what looked like a 19th is
47:52
bra and girdle and knickers, you know, with the pointy cups or
47:56
you know, slightly and, and they were together singing and it
47:59
was, I just remember it being very noticeable that he is fully
48:03
clothed and she is wearing her underwear.
48:05
And she's in her underwear. Like Miley Cyrus and Robin
48:08
Thicke, who we don't want to talk about, but he was fully
48:10
clothed. She had on her underwear.
48:13
So I think there is an expectation somewhere along the
48:16
line for women to wear less clothes.
48:19
And then when somebody and you might not know her, sorry, but
48:22
like Lola Young is an artist that's done really well in the
48:25
last year. She wears, she is fully clothed
48:28
and people look very disrespectful about her, almost
48:31
her look because she's just like wearing normal clothes if you
48:36
know what it means. Yeah.
48:37
But then I also then think, well, Madonna wore a leotard in
48:40
the early noughties and Tina Turner didn't used to wear very
48:43
many clothes, did she? She had really little like
48:46
swingy 20 style dresses like. Yeah, yeah, I knew.
48:49
I think it's, it's, I would say it's almost, almost impossible
48:54
to like disentangle the kind of like patriarchal expectations of
48:59
women and what women actually want to be doing and who's in
49:03
control and who's looking at who and the gays.
49:05
It's kind of, it is almost impossible to to disentangle
49:09
that. And every time you you do start
49:11
asking these questions of a particular female performer,
49:14
sometimes you do have to go. Is that their responsibility to
49:18
like, disentangle all of that? Or maybe we should just think
49:23
about what it is that they're doing and the music that they're
49:25
producing again, rather than just spending all our time
49:28
talking about whether we can see their pants or not.
49:31
Because then you get the argument that Oh well, if they
49:33
weren't just hanging around in their pants, then then we
49:36
wouldn't be talking about their pants.
49:37
But you're saying that this lowly young isn't hanging around
49:40
in their? Pants.
49:41
We're talking about that, I know.
49:43
Basically, we can't win. We cannot win.
49:46
Whatever we do, men will assume it's for them and and it'll be
49:50
wrong. Young people, young women are
49:53
wearing little tiny clothes, not all of them and not all of the
49:57
time. But you know, my daughter is 15
49:59
and she'll go to a party in a little kind of corset, tight top
50:03
and a little short skirt, you know, and there'll be people
50:06
that will be outraged, but it's like they're all wearing that.
50:10
And as was I, I mean, mine, I was a little cut off shorts or
50:14
whatever. And you know, as I said, when
50:16
you go out and you see young women, they are wearing little
50:20
clothes. But we all wore little clothes
50:23
and our parents were, I mean, well, my depending on how old
50:26
our parents are in the 60s. How about you go back?
50:29
Yeah, my, my mum wore miniskirts, you know, like it's,
50:32
it's kind of, it's comes back to that, you know, it's fashion and
50:36
can we not just play with our identity?
50:39
I think the other thing is, is when you're young, and again,
50:41
it's making me sound really old, but when you're young, you play
50:45
with your identity, don't you? And your look and you might, you
50:49
know, this year you might be all a bit emo and a bit like, you
50:52
know, and then next year you might be wearing little baby
50:55
doll dresses. And then the next year you'll be
50:57
doing something else. Because that's, that's what is
50:59
so great about being young is you're kind of finding your way
51:03
and you're finding your look. And they seem to get written off
51:06
when they're just experimenting. And I think, you know, it's back
51:10
to that they're not allowed to, are they?
51:11
Yeah, I, I kind of OK. I don't know where I'm, where I
51:15
where I'm going with this now. It's, it is actually a massive,
51:18
a massive topic. I think I I just keep kind of
51:24
mentally coming back to that, that idea of it being frivolous
51:28
because women like it. But then when I start thinking
51:31
about that, you then you have to come along the wider women like
51:35
it. And then when you're talking
51:37
about performers and do they have a responsibility to their
51:40
audience and also who is in charge of that performer?
51:44
Because you brought up on men and making her wear it.
51:46
Are men making her wear it? I don't know who are these these
51:50
female performers now? I mean, I don't think right now
51:53
anyone's making Beyoncé wear anything, for example.
51:56
No, and but the I think they'd struggle to make my don't wear
52:00
anything. Either, but I think the younger
52:02
one, I mean, let's face it, men do run the music industry
52:06
without a doubt. So she could be being told that
52:09
this is a great look or not. We like, I don't know.
52:12
But as you said, there's no way Beyoncé is Beyoncé is wearing
52:15
what Beyoncé wants to wear. And they're but it's just a
52:17
massive rabbit hole because then you start going down into well,
52:20
men run the music industry. But if her audience is women,
52:23
then they are trying to sell to women.
52:27
So presumably they if they were asking her to wear something,
52:30
it's because they think women will like it.
52:32
But then why do they think women will like it?
52:35
Is it because I know right back to the patriarchy and we're just
52:38
assuming that anything men like is OK?
52:41
This is too long for 30 minutes. I know.
52:43
But This is why I wrote this. I had to write all the arguments
52:46
down because I write I'm basically I made a reel about
52:48
this earlier in the week and I've seen all the arguments and
52:51
then obviously the algorithm picked up and showed me all the
52:53
arguments. And it's a kind of it cannot be
52:56
fixed in obviously in the 25 minutes chatting, but it but
52:59
it's not. It's so much bigger and multi
53:02
layered when what might have happened is they said, Oh my
53:06
God, we've got hold of Jane Birkins dress and doesn't she
53:09
look really cute in the 60s in these outfits?
53:11
Literally they could have said cute or do you know what I mean?
53:14
It might not have been sex. She looks sexy because I don't
53:17
think she did. She looked cute and actually no.
53:20
But then maybe that's the that's the in the current climate,
53:23
should we be going with cute as a synonym?
53:26
Attractive. But then that brings back, why
53:29
can't we be cute? You know, we don't have to all
53:32
be kick ass or modest or it's not our response.
53:36
It's not our response, no. And actually, some days I wake
53:39
up and I want to look cute. And it doesn't mean I'm not a
53:41
feminist. I just fancy wearing a little
53:43
cute pink dress and then the next day I'll be in black lace
53:47
and I'll be a bit more like punk or whatever.
53:49
But you know, like we can, we can have different iterations of
53:54
ourselves. And I just think she just looked
53:56
wicked. As far as I'm concerned.
53:57
I think it's just that she just looked cute and it could be.
54:00
Yeah, I did. I actually I did.
54:01
I did like the outfits that to be honest, I did.
54:05
The pictures I've seen I didn't. I do like it, but it must be
54:08
heavy to try and carry the weight of the entire world's
54:11
expectations on you every time you put on a frock and get on
54:14
stage. Well, there is that, but I also
54:16
think, and one thing I haven't mentioned is the, is my theme of
54:20
which young female celebrity is going to be cancelled this week.
54:23
Actually, we actually could have had two because Billie Eilish
54:25
was being cancelled all weekend. Maybe we'll talk about that next
54:28
week. My, my daughter sat me down and
54:30
went, oh, have you heard Billie Eilish?
54:32
She's trying. They're cancelling Billie Eilish
54:33
now. And I was like, what?
54:34
Anyway, by Monday, one day, we'd forgotten about that and we've
54:37
moved on to Olivia Rodrigo and we've had Sabrina Carpenter and
54:40
we've had Chapel Rhones. We haven't got many left, you
54:42
know, it just seemed maybe we'll go on rotation.
54:46
Yeah. And then we'll just go back to
54:48
the beginning. We're going to cancel Chapel
54:49
again. It's just exhausting and it must
54:51
be exhausting for them. And she probably put that on and
54:54
thought I look really cool, I look cute, I feel good.
54:57
She went out and sang her new song her, her audience loved it.
55:01
And now she's getting accused of rage baiting paedophilia.
55:05
Then it's just like, no. Yeah.
55:07
Is that who is The Who is the audience?
55:09
Is it teenage girls? Is it grown men?
55:12
Is it just teenage boys? Who knows?
55:15
Young women, it's young teenage, you know, and then, well, I'm
55:18
I'm going to end actually not on Olivia Rodrigo is that somebody
55:21
sent me. Well, I was.
55:23
One question I did want to ask before we end this though, is
55:26
that it occurred to me while we were talking about baby doll
55:28
dresses and stuff, that all these people we're talking about
55:31
in the tiny baby doll dresses are are tiny people as well.
55:37
Oh, I was going to, I thought once.
55:38
Made something else. I hid myself.
55:40
No, I wonder what the what the reaction would be if it was a
55:45
woman with a larger body in the same outfit.
55:47
I wonder if we would get the same reaction from both men and
55:50
women. I don't know to that because
55:53
that again is another part of the gays and who's looking and
55:57
what we what we get out of this. But again, that's a whole other
56:00
massive topic, but I just had to get that out of my head or
56:03
otherwise it was going to sit there for the rest of the day
56:05
and just really annoy me. I would I hid my face talk.
56:08
About it in the comments. Yeah, I hid my face because I
56:10
thought you were going to bring up the story I told you on
56:13
WhatsApp, which I'm not going to repeat anyway.
56:16
I just was going to say with all of this though, I don't think
56:19
it's just young women. I share every Sunday my outfits
56:23
of the week. I've done now for a year.
56:25
I'd stopped a bit over with my operation and stuff, but yeah.
56:28
And I and I got a message around how much somebody liked what I
56:32
was wearing, which I say, oh, that's nice because it was
56:35
modest and women at 53 should be modest.
56:39
And I was just like, oh, like, never have I ever wanted to wear
56:45
less clothes ever. I was like, wow, I'm going to
56:48
wear I'm. Just going to get your baby doll
56:50
dress next week then. I know I look in my wardrobe
56:53
like have I got a baby doll dress?
56:55
And I've made a TikTok today of me in this in the one of the
56:57
shortest dresses I own because it's just like, God, this modest
57:02
and it was from a woman. And it's just so disappointing
57:05
because, you know, OK, baby doll dresses all around this week.
57:09
Yeah, I'm. I'm sure I've got one somewhere.
57:11
Thank you for joining us for another roundup of midlife chat,
57:14
hot takes and occasional moaning.
57:16
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