Latest / Karl and Crew / Best Of-4th of July
Transcript
- 0:00S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
- 0:06S1: and crew.
- 0:07S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
- 0:11S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
- 0:15S1: Delivering the truth daily.
- 0:17S3: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
- 0:21S3: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
- 0:25S3: that would make it worth it.
- 0:26S4: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
- 0:29S4: the life source, which is God.
- 0:32S5: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
- 0:36S5: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
- 0:39S5: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
- 0:44S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
- 0:48S1: and Crew.
- 0:49S2: You know, when you think about scarcity, there's a lot
- 0:51S2: of things that may come to mind. And we are
- 0:53S2: well aware of the fact that as we're talking with
- 0:55S2: you right now, there's a lot of you that feel
- 0:57S2: so alone. You feel so helpless. Whether it's financial, relational, spiritual.
- 1:04S2: But our God is able. He's able to meet you
- 1:06S2: right there. Coming up in just a couple of minutes here,
- 1:10S2: we're going to have a special guest ducking in here
- 1:12S2: talking about loss and what God can do.
- 1:14S3: Rachel Faulkner Brown. She is a widow, actually, twice widowed
- 1:19S3: by the time she was in her mid 30s. And
- 1:21S3: the Lord has given her a tremendous vantage point and ministry.
- 1:26S3: She wants to speak directly to those of you going
- 1:29S3: through loss of any kind. That's coming up here on
- 1:31S3: Carl and Crew.
- 1:32S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
- 1:35S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
- 1:38S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 1:42S2: It's an amazing phenomenon. But if we find ourselves in
- 1:46S2: a season of scarcity, it's those touch points of God's
- 1:50S2: love that bring abundance out of that. I mean, I'm
- 1:53S2: just going to go back to Mark six in my head.
- 1:55S2: This one chapter of the gospel of Mark is so
- 1:58S2: loaded with God's provision showing up when the seas are
- 2:03S2: raging out on the Sea of Galilee, and Jesus steps
- 2:06S2: onto those whitecaps and he just says, don't be afraid, man.
- 2:09S2: I'm here. He doesn't call him the storm first. He
- 2:12S2: first announces, I'm here. And for some of you, you've
- 2:16S2: got the scarcity going on in your life, and it's
- 2:18S2: manifesting itself in different ways financially, relationally, spiritually. I want
- 2:25S2: you to know you're strategically positioned for God to do
- 2:29S2: something absolutely amazing in your life. I'm not overselling it here,
- 2:36S2: am I, Rachel Falkner Brown. That's when God moves, doesn't he, sister?
- 2:41S6: Amen. Yes. Oh my goodness. I'm over here. Like holding
- 2:46S6: it in. I'm like, yes, God, yes!
- 2:50S2: Rachel, pour out your heart, sister. I mean, you know what?
- 2:53S2: Before we get into your story, I want you to
- 2:56S2: speak to people that find themselves in a moment of scarcity.
- 3:00S2: They might have, like you lost a spouse, they might
- 3:02S2: be have lost a job. Really, your story relates to
- 3:07S2: so many stories, Rachel, because God shows up when we're
- 3:13S2: in the grind of life, doesn't he? Sister.
- 3:16S6: Yes. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. And really, honestly, when you
- 3:21S6: when you're in it, it's terrifying. And then when you're
- 3:24S6: on the other side, you're like, oh my goodness, he
- 3:26S6: was there. And so I just want to speak to
- 3:28S6: the people who are in fear because I get it.
- 3:32S6: I mean, I totally get it. And it's, you know,
- 3:34S6: even though Jesus said it so many times, do not fear.
- 3:38S6: That's a really natural reaction, right? I mean, it keeps
- 3:41S6: us safe in so many ways. So, so don't discount
- 3:44S6: yourself that you're not spiritual enough if you're afraid because
- 3:48S6: it's very normal. I mean, look at the people who
- 3:51S6: walked with Jesus in the boat in Mark five. They're
- 3:53S6: they were just terrified. And they were with him. I mean,
- 3:57S6: they were with him. We're like, you know, I feel
- 4:00S6: like there's a special measure of grace and mercy for
- 4:04S6: us when we're having to pray to someone that we're
- 4:07S6: not with. Yes, we do see the Holy Spirit. And yes, we,
- 4:11S6: you know, we do use our divine imagination. But at
- 4:14S6: the end of the day, I mean, it's very normal. And,
- 4:17S6: you know, I was with a widow last night on
- 4:19S6: the phone. We have our new Bible study that just
- 4:22S6: came out. And, you know, she's in debt. She has, um,
- 4:26S6: an $84,000 college loan bill that she just got in
- 4:30S6: the mail, a reminder of that bill last night. And she's,
- 4:35S6: you know, we go into a Zoom room and it's
- 4:37S6: she and I and she's just like, I can hardly
- 4:40S6: even hear anything because all I know is I can't
- 4:43S6: pay this bill. And God, I mean, the lack on
- 4:47S6: her life. And I'm like, listen, that is nothing to God.
- 4:52S6: Sometimes we just need the reminder. Honestly, y'all. I mean,
- 4:55S6: sometimes we just need the reminder that what we feel
- 4:58S6: like is so big is not big.
- 5:01S3: Rachel Falkner Brown, our guest right now, she is the
- 5:04S3: founder of Never Alone Widows, the largest Christian Widows ministry,
- 5:08S3: 501 C three in the country. Give us a little
- 5:11S3: bit of your story, Rachel. I mean, it feels cavalier
- 5:15S3: to even sum it up in a sentence or two.
- 5:18S3: But you lost you were twice widowed by the time
- 5:21S3: you were in your mid 30s. I mean that that
- 5:23S3: stops people in their tracks a little bit. Give us
- 5:26S3: your story.
- 5:28S6: Yeah. Um, well, I was widowed at 23. My husband
- 5:31S6: had an aneurism on the basketball court doing what he loved.
- 5:35S6: We'd just come home from church, and I remarried two
- 5:38S6: years later. We had two kids together. Blair was a
- 5:42S6: fighter pilot in the Air Force, flying the T-38 out
- 5:44S6: of Columbus, Mississippi, and he and his student pilot crashed
- 5:48S6: on the runway. And, um, the cable and the wing broke,
- 5:52S6: and I was left widowed twice at 31. And so,
- 5:56S6: you know, it's it's unbelievable. And I look back on
- 5:59S6: it now, I didn't know anybody but Elizabeth Elliot, who'd
- 6:02S6: lost two husbands and she was so far removed. And
- 6:06S6: I mean, there was, you know, I could only read
- 6:08S6: her books. It wasn't like I could call her up
- 6:10S6: and go help me. Um, and there were no other
- 6:13S6: young widows in my town. And so I just, I
- 6:17S6: didn't have anybody to look to. And, you know, it's
- 6:19S6: so funny. In Second Kings, it talks about and she
- 6:21S6: had a, a home among her people. Well, I think
- 6:24S6: it's why I started never Alone because I was like,
- 6:26S6: I did not have a home among my people. I
- 6:28S6: didn't even know people. So I was like, I'm going
- 6:32S6: to give people people who are widows. And, um, yeah,
- 6:36S6: it's just been, it's been an amazing ride. And I
- 6:39S6: never set out to do this. I think I just
- 6:41S6: wanted what I didn't have for widows. That's what I
- 6:45S6: wanted for widows. And I never dreamed it would be
- 6:47S6: what it is today with 90 groups across the country. And,
- 6:50S6: you know, hopefully we'll end up with 500 before. the
- 6:53S6: next few years.
- 6:55S2: You know, it's it's interesting. Erica Kirk was speaking at
- 6:58S2: this memorial, and she said she was talking about the
- 7:02S2: emotions of going to the morgue to identify and look
- 7:05S2: at her husband. She said there was a slight grin.
- 7:08S2: There were some things that she saw, and she was
- 7:11S2: filled with questions galore. But one thing that she said
- 7:17S2: that really stuck with me, she said I had a
- 7:21S2: depth of pain that I, I cannot describe. Rachel why
- 7:26S2: is that so? Undescribable and can you put words to
- 7:30S2: it at all, especially when you lost your second husband?
- 7:34S2: What were. What was that I want I want you
- 7:37S2: to take us there because some people are feeling that
- 7:40S2: right now.
- 7:41S6: I can um, I never saw Blair's body and so
- 7:46S6: I did not have that experience. I did not see
- 7:49S6: him till I got to the to the funeral home
- 7:51S6: seven days later. Because he came, he became, I hate
- 7:54S6: to say it, but he became property of the U.S.
- 7:56S6: Air Force because of the way he died. And so, um,
- 8:00S6: I did have that experience with Todd. I went to
- 8:02S6: the E.R., I was in there on the gurney looking.
- 8:05S6: I remember looking down at his basketball shoes. And honestly,
- 8:12S6: Blair died with his boots on. Todd died with his
- 8:14S6: shoes on, and he died doing what he loved, and
- 8:17S6: so did Blair. And so the depth of pain for me, um,
- 8:23S6: it was, I have to say, it was very similar
- 8:25S6: to Erica. But at the end of the day, I
- 8:28S6: think I had this knowing that they had really lived.
- 8:32S6: We had both, they had both really lived. And, and
- 8:36S6: Charlie had really lived. And so yes, you are so
- 8:40S6: you are absolutely shattered. I mean, my heart was on
- 8:44S6: the floor in a million pieces and I was like,
- 8:48S6: I there will never be a way to gather up
- 8:51S6: all these shards. It's like when you break a glass
- 8:53S6: and there's shards everywhere. You just got to sweep it
- 8:56S6: up and keep going, right? There's no way to put
- 8:59S6: that glass back together. Nobody's super gluing glasses, you know,
- 9:04S6: and that's the way it feels. I mean, yes, Kintsugi,
- 9:06S6: that's such a beautiful picture. But that isn't real reality.
- 9:09S6: I mean, you know what I'm saying. Like it is
- 9:11S6: it becomes reality. But in the moment you've just got
- 9:15S6: to sweep up and, and take the next step forward. And,
- 9:19S6: and that is, that is what we all do. That's
- 9:22S6: what Erika did. That's what I did. And that's what
- 9:24S6: widows do. I mean, we just we're shattered and we're
- 9:28S6: never the same. We're never the same. Our brain changes
- 9:31S6: that day.
- 9:32S3: Rachel Falkner Brown, our guest right now coming up, that
- 9:35S3: picture is, I'm sure, vivid in your mind right now
- 9:38S3: of a glass shattering of shards being all over the floor.
- 9:42S3: You know, maybe days later, you ever step on a
- 9:45S3: piece of glass because it was remaining, it showed up.
- 9:49S3: You hadn't been able to get up that piece. How
- 9:51S3: does God bring abundance in a situation like this? More
- 9:55S3: with our guests. Rachel Faulkner Brown coming up.
- 9:58S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to cast and Crew.
- 10:03S2: The amazing reality is that when the chips are absolutely
- 10:07S2: down and it doesn't matter what area of life. I
- 10:09S2: want you to know something today, my friend. Our God
- 10:11S2: is a God of abundance. Even in our weakness. He
- 10:14S2: is strong. And I think that's the point, isn't it, Ali?
- 10:17S2: I mean, that's the point of abundance is that it's
- 10:20S2: not about stuff. It's about him, right?
- 10:23S3: Because nothing can replace what's been lost, what's been taken
- 10:27S3: from you. Rachel Faulkner Brown, our guest right now, tragically
- 10:30S3: lost two husbands before she was in her mid 30s. Rachel,
- 10:36S3: you you feel rightly that things have been taken from you,
- 10:41S3: that your your husband, your dear husband. This happened twice,
- 10:44S3: was taken from you. Does there ever come a point
- 10:48S3: where you feel like, okay, I don't, not that you
- 10:51S3: don't grieve the loss, but I feel like I'm whole again.
- 10:54S6: Yes. Oh, absolutely. I, I do think, um, with a
- 10:59S6: lot of healing and a lot of therapy and a
- 11:02S6: lot of questions like what happened to me when I was,
- 11:05S6: you know, as a young child, how did that I
- 11:09S6: had no idea. Ali, honestly, that my 35 year old
- 11:13S6: self was connected back to my ten year old girl,
- 11:17S6: little girl. I never had had done any kind of work.
- 11:20S6: I didn't go to therapy for 11 years. And I
- 11:23S6: will say, I also didn't feel things deeply. I was
- 11:26S6: just kind of a soldier. I was like, all right,
- 11:29S6: let's just. Onward, Christian soldier and say this scripture. I
- 11:33S6: was a Jesus girl all through and through, but I didn't,
- 11:37S6: I was, I was like Pete, who wrote, um, emotionally
- 11:40S6: healthy spirituality. I was, I was Pete, I was like,
- 11:44S6: I got you Jesus. And I don't know how to
- 11:46S6: feel true pain. I don't know how to grieve, I
- 11:50S6: didn't grieve, I mean, it sounds crazy, but I flung
- 11:54S6: myself into things and there were people who needed me. And,
- 12:00S6: you know, the squadron was watching. My kids were watching.
- 12:03S6: The church was watching. I'm like, oh, okay, I'll be
- 12:06S6: all the things for all these people. And I honestly
- 12:09S6: did not grieve till I remarried, um, really fully. I
- 12:14S6: didn't grieve. And so I think, you know, through therapy
- 12:17S6: and inner healing, I, we, you know, we love Jim,
- 12:20S6: Jim Wilder and his approach, the Emanuel approach, where you, you're,
- 12:24S6: you're with Jesus. I didn't know how to be with Jesus.
- 12:27S6: I didn't know how to let him comfort me. I
- 12:29S6: didn't know how to feel. So re learning how to
- 12:32S6: do all those things, that was a huge solution. And
- 12:35S6: it led to wholeness. Absolutely. You can 1,000% feel whole again.
- 12:40S2: So let's go after this because a lot of people
- 12:43S2: that are living in scarcity have stayed there a long time.
- 12:46S2: And pretty quick they've got an incredible shrinking God, right?
- 12:50S2: And it's not the God of the scriptures. How does God,
- 12:54S2: in simple terms, meet with us in our emotional scarcity
- 12:59S2: when we feel like, man, I don't even know if
- 13:01S2: I'm feeling anything right now. What do you say, Rachel?
- 13:04S6: Yeah. Well, it's so interesting because I was listening to
- 13:07S6: a sermon last week and they said, do you feel
- 13:10S6: anything when you eat dinner? You know, when you eat
- 13:13S6: three times a day, do you feel your bones being nourished?
- 13:16S6: Do you feel how it's like? That is such a
- 13:20S6: good analogy because no, you don't. But that is the word.
- 13:25S6: When you wash yourself in the word, something is happening,
- 13:30S6: but you don't necessarily have to have this massive encounter
- 13:34S6: with Jesus to to know that something's happening. You just
- 13:38S6: have to trust God is doing something. Just like when
- 13:40S6: I eat, I am fueling my body. Now I don't
- 13:43S6: feel necessarily. Yes, I may feel tired if I don't eat.
- 13:47S6: But you don't feel your bones being strengthened when you
- 13:49S6: drink milk. I mean, you know, it's just that same principle.
- 13:53S6: God is doing something, whether you know it or not,
- 13:56S6: when you wash yourself in the word.
- 13:58S3: You mentioned Rachel. You mentioned. I love that you mentioned
- 14:02S3: the need that you felt initially to kind of for
- 14:06S3: everybody else to be the strong Christian widow to, to
- 14:10S3: soldier on, you know, and I think many people feel
- 14:13S3: that that like, I've got to, you know, the people
- 14:15S3: are watching for my witness, for my testimony just in
- 14:18S3: our remaining moments. How did you get to that point
- 14:21S3: where you went, you know what? I don't have to
- 14:23S3: be that for people.
- 14:25S6: Well, I got to that point by meeting people who
- 14:30S6: were free because I was not free. Ellie, I had
- 14:33S6: a secret, and I was carrying this secret from my childhood.
- 14:37S6: I did not know what freedom looked like because my family,
- 14:42S6: I mean, we were amazing people, but we just didn't
- 14:46S6: talk about hard things. And I think when you press
- 14:49S6: in to the hard things, when you say the thing,
- 14:51S6: I mean, y'all, we work with women every day who
- 14:54S6: are widowed, who've had abortions, who had an abusive marriage,
- 14:57S6: and they couldn't say anything because their husband died, or
- 15:01S6: they're like, it'll ruin my reputation and all of those things.
- 15:05S6: You think it keeps you, you think it keeps you
- 15:07S6: safe and it actually keeps you stuck. And, and for me,
- 15:11S6: that was the road to wholeness. That was the road
- 15:15S6: to abundance was being like, I have nothing to fear
- 15:19S6: because I'm free. I have, I've totally let go of,
- 15:23S6: of what people think of me. I do not fear people.
- 15:26S6: And I think letting go of that changed me forever.
- 15:30S2: Yeah. Rachel, you're spot on this notion that we need
- 15:33S2: to put out a signal that we're okay and that
- 15:37S2: our image kind of, uh, trumps our Circumstances. Yeah. It's deadly.
- 15:43S2: Some of you are going, all right. How do I
- 15:45S2: get more of this? I want God to minister in
- 15:48S2: my scarcity to create abundance. We've got an answer for
- 15:50S2: you right now.
- 15:51S3: Yeah. Rachel has the ministry. Also, there's a podcast, a
- 15:54S3: book that she's written. Just text strength to (800) 555-7898, text
- 16:00S3: strength to (800) 555-7898.
- 16:06S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
- 16:09S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
- 16:12S2: Sometimes there's a central passage of scripture that when you
- 16:16S2: see it, you go, whoa, that's a game changer. So
- 16:21S2: let's just back up a little bit. It was called
- 16:24S2: the King of Kings, the Prince of Peace. He is
- 16:28S2: the Messiah. A crown would have fit on his head,
- 16:33S2: wouldn't it, Ali?
- 16:33S3: Oh, yeah.
- 16:35S2: But he didn't take it. Isn't that wild? He did
- 16:38S2: not take the crown. I mean, he was crowned. No
- 16:43S2: doubt about it. But was it was after the crucifixion.
- 16:47S4: That first crown of thorns.
- 16:49S2: Yeah. He was crowned alright. It was there was a
- 16:54S2: crown of thorns around him. But we look here at
- 16:56S2: verse 45 in Mark chapter ten, and we find for
- 17:00S2: even the Son of Man came not to be served,
- 17:03S2: but to serve, and to give his life as a
- 17:07S2: ransom for many. You know, the context here is that
- 17:11S2: he says this, and the first time I heard these
- 17:15S2: verses is when I was running for student body president,
- 17:18S2: and everyone else that was running for student body president
- 17:20S2: used this verse. And whoever would be first among you
- 17:24S2: must be a slave of all. And he. We go
- 17:28S2: back one more verse, but whoever would be great among
- 17:32S2: you must be your servant. Those are easier words to
- 17:36S2: say than they are to do, aren't they, guys?
- 17:39S5: Yes, because our.
- 17:40S3: Human nature is to push our way to the front,
- 17:43S3: to be served.
- 17:45S4: And.
- 17:46S3: To serve.
- 17:46S4: And when we're there, we try to prove why we
- 17:49S4: should be there and exert authority and power over people.
- 17:53S4: When we are in a leadership.
- 17:55S5: And serving is hard. You know, some people are like,
- 17:58S5: I don't want to do that.
- 18:00S2: Yeah. I met with a group of leaders on a,
- 18:02S2: on a call here probably two nights ago. My bride
- 18:05S2: actually did most of the prep for it, but it
- 18:08S2: was how to, how to lead a small group that's
- 18:11S2: going to be effective and move people forward in their
- 18:13S2: relationship with Jesus. And, uh, one of the points that
- 18:18S2: my bride gave was how to handle messy people because
- 18:22S2: she says everybody is. And we just had a good
- 18:25S2: discussion about this because as much as these leaders are somewhat,
- 18:30S2: you would look at them and go, pretty self-confident people
- 18:33S2: in this. And, uh, when you scrape below the surface,
- 18:35S2: you realize that serving the people that are in their
- 18:39S2: groups is very difficult because there's messy people, and sometimes
- 18:43S2: the very ones you're trying to serve are biting the
- 18:45S2: hand that's feeding them. Isn't that something?
- 18:48S3: I mean, we've all seen it. Maybe we've all done it.
- 18:51S2: Yeah. So we're going to talk about some of those
- 18:54S2: kind of nuances. What's it look like to serve when
- 18:58S2: you feel like there's no appreciation at all? Jesus faced that.
- 19:02S2: Hang on.
- 19:03S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 19:06S2: So I was about two years old in my relationship
- 19:09S2: with Jesus Christ. I was at Multnomah Bible College, and
- 19:12S2: I had a couple of professors actually, that talked me
- 19:15S2: into running for student body president. I hadn't even planned
- 19:18S2: to be there more than one year. I was just
- 19:20S2: going to get a one year quick little certificate, do
- 19:23S2: my one year of Bible college, and then head off
- 19:26S2: to the mission field, building facilities, housing, whatever I could
- 19:30S2: construct with my carpentry construction skills. And these profs said, no,
- 19:37S2: we want you to run and the benefit of running
- 19:39S2: for student body president is if you won, you had
- 19:43S2: all your tuition paid for the next year.
- 19:45S3: That's a nice perk.
- 19:46S2: Which was a big deal. And lo and behold, I won.
- 19:50S2: And it was about two weeks into being studio president,
- 19:54S2: student government president, that I thought, what in the world
- 19:57S2: have I done?
- 19:58S3: Why? Why? What made you say that?
- 20:01S2: I can't even believe I'm reliving this. And I don't
- 20:03S2: think we've ever talked about it. I had a studio
- 20:06S2: office that was kind of an open door. It had
- 20:09S2: all glass, and it was right outside the cafeteria. And
- 20:13S2: I found out right away that being student body president
- 20:17S2: meant you were the complaint center for the entire student body.
- 20:22S4: That's hilarious.
- 20:23S2: No, I'm not joking. What are you laughing about?
- 20:26S3: Because I know exactly that that's true. I mean, no,
- 20:29S3: I'm feeling this with you.
- 20:31S2: Oh, it was painful. And because of where my office
- 20:34S2: was located, it usually related to the cafeteria food.
- 20:38S3: I was wondering, I was wondering if there was any
- 20:40S3: correlation there.
- 20:41S2: And I mean, I'm in that office for like, I
- 20:44S2: went and ate my lunch, hustled over to my office
- 20:48S2: and its glass door. And by the way, I wound
- 20:51S2: up about two months into my office, I asked facilities
- 20:55S2: if they could get me a solid door. I said,
- 20:57S2: I'm not able to get anything done with my V,
- 21:00S2: p and all my different officers in here. We're not
- 21:02S2: getting anything done because people keep sticking their heads in, going, hey,
- 21:05S2: I got a complaint. But but it was about two
- 21:07S2: days into this and a guy walks into my office,
- 21:10S2: he goes, you got to do something. You got to
- 21:12S2: help us here. I said, what's going on? He said,
- 21:14S2: have you seen that meat they're serving in there? There's like,
- 21:18S2: there's like rainbows on top of the meat. That can't
- 21:20S2: be good for you. Carl and I went back to
- 21:25S2: the head chef, bottle washer in the back, and I said, listen,
- 21:28S2: I got some questions from some students about like the
- 21:32S2: rainbow on the meat. They said, if they don't like it,
- 21:35S2: too bad.
- 21:37S4: That's a fun spot to be in.
- 21:38S2: Now I'm in a really good spot.
- 21:41S3: Okay.
- 21:42S4: Someone's gonna be upset.
- 21:43S2: Well, I went back and I said, listen, I, I
- 21:46S2: just and I was trying to be super diplomatic and
- 21:49S2: I and, and I was, I just said, listen, they
- 21:52S2: don't have a lot of money to work with back there.
- 21:55S2: And so you're going to be seeing a lot of leftovers.
- 21:59S2: And so I even took it further. I said, you're
- 22:01S2: not going to see a lot of new food, and
- 22:03S2: things that don't get eaten will show up in soup
- 22:05S2: dishes and things like that. So no, I'm serious about this.
- 22:10S2: This is the way it rolled. So I said, you know,
- 22:13S2: we're just going to have to suck it up. And
- 22:15S2: I said, we came here for a Bible education. And
- 22:18S2: here's the reality that didn't work for a lot of
- 22:21S2: these students. And I found myself being studio president going, wow,
- 22:28S2: you know, I campaigned on one of my planks was,
- 22:31S2: I want to serve you. But man, you're making it hard.
- 22:35S2: I mean, they complained about everything.
- 22:37S4: I can't serve you on everything. Yeah.
- 22:40S3: I think so many people have have felt that. I mean,
- 22:43S3: the the servant leader is a pretty common term. You'll
- 22:47S3: see that in a ton of job descriptions or mission
- 22:51S3: statements that were servant leaders. This idea that I want
- 22:53S3: to lead the way by serving you, serving others. But man,
- 22:58S3: when you get down into the to the nitty gritty
- 23:01S3: of that, it's often exactly what you're describing. It becomes
- 23:06S3: a place where people can air their complaints, air dirty laundry,
- 23:10S3: and you are supposed to fix it.
- 23:12S2: Yeah. You know who really servant leads around here in
- 23:16S2: a unique way. And I cheer for him and he's
- 23:19S2: God willing. He's not listening because I don't want to
- 23:21S2: make him blush. But Matt McNealy is a great servant
- 23:25S2: leader that we have for a boss here.
- 23:27S3: Yes he is.
- 23:27S2: Wouldn't you say that?
- 23:28S3: Yes.
- 23:28S4: Completely agree. Yeah.
- 23:30S2: I mean, I, I, I asked something of him yesterday,
- 23:35S2: and I said, I hate to even ask you this, and.
- 23:38S2: And his statement to me was, Carl, don't ever hesitate
- 23:41S2: to ask me for what you're really feeling. And I'm like, oh, boy.
- 23:45S4: I've got for Matt. Uh, he, I told him that I,
- 23:49S4: I was needing to have my brakes replaced on my
- 23:51S4: car and he said, well, why don't you get the
- 23:52S4: pieces and come on down to my house and we'll,
- 23:55S4: we'll change them. And he's driving me to the or
- 23:58S4: picking me up from the airport in a week. Uh,
- 24:01S4: you know. Yeah. And, and my wife and my little
- 24:04S4: girl were, were all gonna put the car seat up
- 24:07S4: in his car and he's gonna take us home and,
- 24:09S4: and he's like, if you ever need me to do
- 24:11S4: that and I'm free, just ask me and I'll do it. Wow.
- 24:15S4: So yeah, great servant heart.
- 24:17S2: What a guy. What a guy. And so the question
- 24:24S2: comes in what area are you leading? Because we're all
- 24:28S2: leading somewhere, right, Ellie?
- 24:30S3: Yes. You could be leading in a workplace. You could
- 24:32S3: be leading at home. You could be leading in a
- 24:35S3: small group, many different contexts where each of us are
- 24:38S3: called to lead.
- 24:39S2: And our big idea out of Mark 1045 today is
- 24:42S2: that he came to serve. And the question is, when
- 24:49S2: you have a position of power, whether it's a parent
- 24:52S2: or you're a teacher or you're running a division at work,
- 24:57S2: this is meddling right now. But what if you had
- 25:00S2: a total mental shift today on this one? A total
- 25:04S2: change in heart. And you said, you know what? I'm
- 25:06S2: going to go in today. I'm going to talk to
- 25:08S2: my kids today. I'm going to talk to my class today.
- 25:12S2: I'm going to talk with this little group that I
- 25:14S2: lead at the Walmart Greeters today that I work with.
- 25:19S2: I'm going to serve. I'm not going to flex muscle.
- 25:22S2: How world, how much would the world change if we
- 25:25S2: all had that perspective shift today?
- 25:27S3: Yeah. And knowing that there's going to be a cost
- 25:31S3: attached to that, that you're your approach to leading by
- 25:36S3: serving you very may well become the dumping grounds for complaints.
- 25:41S3: And so some of the dying to self, I think,
- 25:43S3: is accepting that it's going to be hard.
- 25:46S2: Yeah. So what's the takeaway? Well, first off, if you're
- 25:50S2: young and you're in school, don't run for student government president.
- 25:54S3: Okay. That's a good.
- 25:55S2: One.
- 25:55S4: One good lesson.
- 25:56S2: Or if you do, brace yourself. But the bigger lesson
- 26:00S2: today is if you find yourself in any position of power,
- 26:06S2: take a moment and think about what Jesus modeled for us.
- 26:11S2: For even the Son of Man came not to be served,
- 26:15S2: but to serve and to give his life as a
- 26:18S2: ransom for many.
- 26:21S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today you're listening to
- 26:25S1: Carl and crew.
- 26:26S2: Abundance out of scarcity. It's everywhere in the scriptures. It's
- 26:30S2: the widow's mite. It's the Macedonian believers who didn't have much.
- 26:35S2: But when they gave, it just overflowed. And this. That's
- 26:40S2: the that's the gospel. That's the gospel. The good news
- 26:44S2: of Jesus Christ is that while we were yet sinners,
- 26:47S2: Christ died for us. While we had our backs to God.
- 26:52S2: Jesus came to deliver us. He's our Messiah. But then
- 26:56S2: you run into people with all kinds of life situations.
- 26:59S2: And sometimes if you're going to read a verse to them,
- 27:01S2: you better give some context here, because to somebody who's
- 27:05S2: unmarried or a widow, you might be tempted to just read. Well,
- 27:09S2: let me read to you what Paul said, first Corinthians seven,
- 27:12S2: verse eight, to the unmarried and the widows. I say
- 27:14S2: that it is good for them to remain single as
- 27:17S2: I am. I think it's better to read on a
- 27:20S2: little bit. Right. Lisa, what do you say? Special guest
- 27:22S2: Lisa here with us. What do you say, Lisa.
- 27:26S7: Probably good to read on. Yeah. Um, you know, not
- 27:28S7: everyone's called to singleness. Not everyone's called to marriage. And
- 27:32S7: so I think we have to think that through.
- 27:35S2: Yeah. So but let's go after this because we, we
- 27:39S2: don't want to be verse clippers and verse slappers. No way.
- 27:44S2: But Lisa, what Paul said, we can't skip past that.
- 27:49S2: There is a beauty in singleness. Paul championed it. What
- 27:53S2: is the beauty of singleness that people sometimes are begging
- 27:57S2: to get out of when God's saying, enjoy the season,
- 28:01S2: find the abundance in this season. What is it?
- 28:04S7: Yeah. Well, there's just a uniqueness in our ability to
- 28:08S7: devote ourselves to the things of God. And I think
- 28:11S7: that's something that we have to latch on to and remember.
- 28:14S7: And it doesn't mean, again, you highlighted it well, Carl,
- 28:17S7: that some people are going to have shorter seasons of singleness.
- 28:20S7: Some people are going to have longer. What I know
- 28:23S7: today is I'm single and I have to steward that
- 28:26S7: in the way that God is calling me to steward it.
- 28:29S7: And for me, it means showing up at focus on
- 28:31S7: the family and working with young adults and singles and
- 28:35S7: pouring into them and being honest in my relationships and
- 28:39S7: being faithful to my church. And that's, that's a unique calling.
- 28:43S7: Maybe in the way it's lived out for singles, of course,
- 28:46S7: we're all called to serve the Lord and show up,
- 28:48S7: but I think that's something that singles can get excited about.
- 28:51S3: Lisa Anderson, our guest right now, she's the director of
- 28:54S3: Boundless and Young Adults at Focus on the family. As
- 28:57S3: she mentions, she also hosts The Boundless Show, a national
- 29:00S3: radio program and podcast. You know, when you think about singleness,
- 29:05S3: sometimes it's required that we strip away some of the
- 29:08S3: wrong thoughts, wrong attitudes on marriage. I know you addressed
- 29:13S3: that in your book. What are some of those wrong attitudes?
- 29:17S7: Yeah, I think I mean, I think that one of
- 29:19S7: the biggest ones is just that marriage is going to
- 29:22S7: solve all your problems, you know, and sometimes I tell
- 29:25S7: that in the converse to singles and I say, look,
- 29:27S7: do you realize that your singleness is not the biggest
- 29:30S7: thing about you and marrieds who are listening? Your marriage
- 29:33S7: is not the biggest thing about you either. We are.
- 29:36S7: We are children of God. I'd love to go into
- 29:39S7: Galatians where it talks about, you know, man, I've been
- 29:42S7: crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ
- 29:44S7: lives in me. And we're trying to label people by, oh, well, okay, well,
- 29:49S7: you're a, you're a pair or you're a spare. I mean,
- 29:52S7: all the weird platitudes we can get in the church. Yeah.
- 29:55S7: Let's just throw out some of those. Um, but anyway,
- 29:58S7: I literally had a woman at church mention that, so
- 30:01S7: I had to bring.
- 30:02S8: It up, you know? But I'm sorry.
- 30:04S7: Um, it's just, it's not the biggest thing about us.
- 30:07S7: And another thing that I think is, is, um, false
- 30:10S7: that so many singles buy into is this idea that
- 30:13S7: being single means being alone. And that's just not true
- 30:16S7: because not everyone is called to marriage, but everyone's called
- 30:19S7: to relationship. And so what does it look like for
- 30:21S7: us as singles to be pouring into community to be
- 30:24S7: looking for those who are holding us accountable, who we
- 30:28S7: have the opportunity to serve and give to. We're all
- 30:31S7: called to relationship, and sometimes I feel like singles can
- 30:34S7: do friendship even better than marrieds, because we have to
- 30:37S7: work so hard at it. So this idea that marriage,
- 30:40S7: you know. Well, I'm going to I'm going to grow
- 30:42S7: up once I get married, I'm going to actually serve others.
- 30:45S7: Once I get married, I will actually do important things
- 30:48S7: and be about things of the Lord when I get married.
- 30:51S7: That is nowhere in Scripture. Singles cannot get a pass
- 30:54S7: on that.
- 30:55S2: Love it. Lisa Anderson, our guest right now. Lisa, you
- 30:58S2: embody a metaphor. I'm going to give you to the
- 31:01S2: tee and I want to cheer for you. But I
- 31:04S2: was a singles pastor in little Rock, Arkansas many years ago.
- 31:08S2: And we it grew to 500 and it was a force.
- 31:11S2: First off, let me tell you this they were the
- 31:15S2: dominant share of volunteers in children's ministry, and they did
- 31:19S2: it shoulder to shoulder. It was a party every weekend.
- 31:22S2: It was a. They were a force to be reckoned with.
- 31:25S2: But this is what I told him all the time.
- 31:27S2: I said, listen, guys, if you're going to stand put.
- 31:30S2: Looking around, where is that special someone. You're missing out
- 31:35S2: on what God has in two ways. One is, you're
- 31:37S2: not getting on with the abundant life that God called
- 31:39S2: you to. And number two, if you're standing there looking
- 31:42S2: for someone that you ain't going to find the right one,
- 31:45S2: you got to get running toward the cross going. Hebrews
- 31:48S2: 12 here, set your eyes on Jesus. Run in such
- 31:51S2: a way as to win the prize. Because if you
- 31:54S2: look up while you're running toward the cross, that person
- 31:57S2: that's running stride for stride with you and you go, Shazam!
- 32:01S2: Look at her or look at him. That's that's the
- 32:06S2: that's the ticket, isn't it? Lisa, we got it. Let's
- 32:10S2: get going. Because who we're going to find on that path,
- 32:13S2: if God brings us one, that's the partner to find.
- 32:17S2: Speak to that for a little bit, because I see
- 32:19S2: a lot of singles get stuck in their singleness, looking
- 32:23S2: around rather than moving toward the cross.
- 32:26S7: Yeah, well, and I think that's something what you're talking
- 32:28S7: about is something that singles often forget, and that is
- 32:31S7: you can completely be sold out and rock out a
- 32:35S7: season of singleness and be serving and be loving others
- 32:39S7: and growing, unlike singles. Now is your time to get healthy.
- 32:44S7: Be that person. You know, again, healthy people attract healthy people.
- 32:48S7: So this is an opportunity for you to plug into
- 32:50S7: a church, get mentors, get a therapist, get a pastor
- 32:55S7: and his family alongside you, do all the things. And then,
- 32:59S7: but it's okay. You can rock out singleness and have
- 33:03S7: your hands open to marriage at the same time. We
- 33:06S7: think of it as this either or of like, oh, well,
- 33:08S7: I can't be. I can't show interest in other people
- 33:12S7: or act like I care about marriage or even desire
- 33:15S7: marriage or want to pray for marriage. You absolutely can.
- 33:18S7: If God has called you to marriage. You are supposed
- 33:21S7: to pursue that intentionally. I tell my young adult guys
- 33:24S7: you know who listen to me, I say, Proverbs 1822 says,
- 33:27S7: he who finds a wife, finds what is good and
- 33:30S7: will find favor with the Lord, not he who sits
- 33:33S7: around assessing women to see if they're good enough, and
- 33:36S7: then may ask them out on a non-date, you know,
- 33:38S7: to see what happens. So there's an intentionality to.
- 33:42S8: It that has to.
- 33:43S7: Happen. And you can do a both and you can
- 33:45S7: be healthy, you can be growing, you can be serving
- 33:48S7: the Lord. And that may transition into a marriage season.
- 33:51S7: When you, as you said, Carl, find that person who's
- 33:54S7: doing the exact same thing. And, and just the other
- 33:57S7: thing I want to highlight quickly is that this is
- 34:00S7: not like, again, an either or in the sense of like,
- 34:03S7: single people have to be completed or, you know, marriage
- 34:07S7: means that you've arrived or you're quote unquote marriage material.
- 34:12S7: I think we can agree, Carl and Ellie, that, um,
- 34:15S7: we know some unhealthy married people. So it's not like
- 34:18S7: God's putting a stamp of approval on you. Like you're okay.
- 34:21S7: You're worthy of marriage. So let's get it done. But
- 34:24S7: you single people. Lisa, sorry, you're still a project. Um,
- 34:28S7: God has something for all of us, and he's going
- 34:30S7: to use us, and we're responsible to steward those gifts.
- 34:34S3: Lisa Anderson, our guest right now. You know, it seems
- 34:37S3: that the dating landscape has changed quite a bit. The
- 34:40S3: the ability to kind of meet people organically, naturally seems
- 34:45S3: to fallen out, have fallen out of favor as so
- 34:47S3: much of our world is lived online in digital spaces.
- 34:52S3: How do you talk when you minister and speak with
- 34:55S3: young adults? How do you help them? Because it feels
- 34:58S3: like it's kind of full of landmines with all of
- 35:00S3: the swipe left and the online dating, how do people
- 35:03S3: meet good Christian people, even who are eligible to marry?
- 35:08S8: Well, where.
- 35:08S2: Are they, Lisa?
- 35:10S8: Where are they?
- 35:11S7: Here's why it's so telling. Anytime I talk to married
- 35:14S7: people and I talk about the dating scene or my
- 35:17S7: experiences in it. They're like, oh yeah, you know, if
- 35:20S7: something were to happen to my spouse, I a spouse,
- 35:22S7: I just couldn't do it. They're like, so they're so dejected.
- 35:26S7: They're just like, there's no hope for me. I wouldn't
- 35:28S7: be able to re-enter the dating scene. And there's some
- 35:31S7: truth to that because it's kind of like a free
- 35:32S7: for all. It's a little crazy. And you mentioned the
- 35:34S7: digital landscape and dating apps and all the things of like,
- 35:38S7: you feel like if you're going to go out for
- 35:40S7: coffee with someone, you better do a background check. You
- 35:43S7: better give them five compatibility tests. I mean, it's nuts.
- 35:47S7: I remember my mom, you know, my mom met my
- 35:50S7: dad at a Christian college, stalked him at a few
- 35:52S7: basketball games, went to a senior banquet and got married.
- 35:55S7: And she's like, Lisa, it's not that hard. Okay, what
- 35:58S7: are you doing? And I'm like, mom, it's super hard.
- 36:01S7: Trust me, it's super hard. So here's what I'm telling
- 36:04S7: young adults. I mean, I think first of all, we
- 36:06S7: have to pray. If you're not praying about who your
- 36:09S7: eventual mate is, you need to not even get started
- 36:12S7: because there, there is prayer that is needed around. One
- 36:16S7: of the most important decisions of your life. So just
- 36:20S7: start praying. Then you need to get a team around
- 36:22S7: you because dating is not a solo sport. You will
- 36:26S7: start dating someone, you will be totally into them and
- 36:28S7: you will lose your mind. Okay. You will not have objectivity.
- 36:32S7: You will think they are so amazing. You need people
- 36:34S7: who are going to help you look for potential matches, vets,
- 36:38S7: potential matches, bring up red flags, tell you when you're
- 36:42S7: acting crazy. And so that team is important. And here's
- 36:46S7: something aggressive that I say. I mention it in the
- 36:48S7: Dating manifesto, my book. I say you get three people
- 36:52S7: on your team who are truth tellers, who are going
- 36:54S7: to tell you what's straight. They have wisdom. They have discernment.
- 36:57S7: If all three of them agree that the person you're
- 36:59S7: dating is a loser, you cut it off, no questions asked.
- 37:03S7: You are going to rely on their wisdom because you
- 37:05S7: need it. Okay? Then you obviously want to become the
- 37:08S7: type of person you'd want to marry. That's a no brainer.
- 37:11S7: Grow into maturity. Figure out what your non-negotiables are. You
- 37:15S7: better be dating a person who's a disciple of Jesus
- 37:17S7: Christ and isn't just retweeting Francis Chan or some other pastor. Okay, um,
- 37:24S7: then you got to be willing to ask people out
- 37:25S7: and accept dates. Uh, this is like dating 101, y'all. Like,
- 37:29S7: and be willing to be set up. I'm a big
- 37:31S7: fan of the setup. Um, and then finally, you said
- 37:34S7: it first, Carl, go about your business and God's business
- 37:36S7: and see who's doing the same thing.
- 37:38S2: Boom. Lisa, you're on fire, sister. This is power. And
- 37:44S2: and I'll tell you my, the thrilling thing here is
- 37:49S2: if people, by the way, this accountability, you know, one
- 37:53S2: thing that we've lost in this fractured world that we
- 37:55S2: live in is not having close family, sometimes geographically near
- 38:00S2: us or people that love us. We've got to get
- 38:02S2: our posse around us. Because you're right, when we start dating,
- 38:06S2: especially if you start kissing. Oh.
- 38:09S9: Objectivity is hey, bye bye.
- 38:12S2: There goes objectivity. Oh, objectivity is gone. Oh, yeah. He's
- 38:15S2: a hunk of burning love. Well, he's got a rap
- 38:17S2: sheet a mile long and he's never repented of it. Oh,
- 38:20S2: but he's awesome. I mean, come on, people. So Lisa
- 38:25S2: is here to help you, and she has got some
- 38:27S2: amazing content. You'll find a link to The Dating Manifesto,
- 38:31S2: a drama free plan for pursuing marriage with a purpose,
- 38:35S2: and also tons of content on this one site. You
- 38:38S2: might want to hand this off gently to a son
- 38:42S2: or daughter or grandson or granddaughter. I don't know, how
- 38:44S2: do you do that? Well, by the way, Ali, this
- 38:46S2: link that we're going to send out.
- 38:48S3: You know, I always think carefully about how you share
- 38:51S3: these things. Yeah.
- 38:53S2: But if they know your heart.
- 38:54S3: And they.
- 38:54S2: Know your love.
- 38:55S3: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Share it with love and gently and
- 39:00S3: not with any sort of pressure. Yeah. Just text boundless
- 39:03S3: to 805, five, five, 78, 98 boundless to 805 five, five, 78, 98.
- 39:11S2: Yeah. That's great. Oh my goodness guys. Out of scarcity. Abundance.
- 39:20S2: Is it possible even in singleness? Yes. God is at work.
- 39:26S2: Let's get walking this running this path, this race of
- 39:30S2: faith and watch what God does.
- 39:33S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
- 39:37S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
- 39:40S2: God did it. He sure did. Mike and Tyler, they're cheesy.
- 39:44S2: He's just singing the lyrics at Ali.
- 39:46S4: Ben Ali writes the songs.
- 39:50S10: I definitely she writes the songs that make the followers sing. Wow.
- 39:58S5: Wow. We're so sorry.
- 39:59S10: Give us a little morning. Give us a little bit,
- 40:02S10: a little.
- 40:02S4: Bit. You gotta give me some minutes and then I'll
- 40:04S4: get it to you.
- 40:05S10: Minutes.
- 40:06S4: Well, okay. Not like a minute. Give me.
- 40:08S10: I don't write.
- 40:09S3: Songs. I used to try to write some poetry.
- 40:12S10: Oh. Did you?
- 40:12S5: I could see that.
- 40:13S3: I wouldn't say they were great.
- 40:15S10: Oh, I bet they were good.
- 40:16S5: I agree.
- 40:17S3: With Carl.
- 40:18S5: They were.
- 40:18S3: They were simple, usually reflective. But no. No song lyrics.
- 40:22S4: Wow.
- 40:24S2: Were they? What were they like? What were they? What
- 40:27S2: was the topic?
- 40:28S3: Uh, my. The poetry.
- 40:30S10: Yeah.
- 40:30S3: Um, some of them were, uh, things that I'd read
- 40:34S3: in Scripture. So some of them were reflective on Scripture.
- 40:37S3: Some of them were just life experience stuff. There was
- 40:40S3: a I feel like there was a period of time
- 40:42S3: in my life where poems would come to me more easily.
- 40:46S5: I bet they were really good. Did you keep any of.
- 40:48S3: I did keep, yeah, I kept. I've got a little
- 40:50S3: book of.
- 40:51S2: Oh, well, you're coming in and reading someone.
- 40:53S3: No no no no no.
- 40:54S10: Are there two person.
- 40:55S5: Corner with Ali today?
- 40:57S10: Definitely don't think you want my little poems. Yeah.
- 41:02S2: A substitute songs for poems right here. I write the
- 41:06S2: songs of love and special things. Why is this song
- 41:11S2: sound so good to me?
- 41:12S11: It's a good song. Don't say old Ali. I won't.
- 41:15S11: Thank you.
- 41:16S5: Do you know who it is, Ali?
- 41:18S11: No, she didn't know. No, it's Barry Gibb. No. It's not.
- 41:23S4: Do you guys remember that?
- 41:24S5: It's not bad.
- 41:26S2: Oh, yeah, I do remember that.
- 41:28S3: What did.
- 41:28S5: I.
- 41:28S11: Miss?
- 41:29S4: It's okay. This was actually a day when Ali wasn't here. Uh,
- 41:32S4: we played this song a few months ago, and I
- 41:36S4: did not know that Barry Manilow and Barry Gibb were
- 41:38S4: two different people.
- 41:39S5: Oh, boy.
- 41:39S4: So I thought Barry Manilow was the guy from the
- 41:41S4: Bee Gees. And I was like, oh, he went solo
- 41:43S4: and he's got some range.
- 41:45S5: Oh.
- 41:47S2: And when he said this, the amount of tech support
- 41:50S2: in super di. How good was that?
- 41:52S5: I was laughing so hard. I was crying that morning.
- 41:55S5: I was like, okay, so this is Barry Manilow.
- 41:57S4: This is Barry.
- 41:58S5: Manilow.
- 41:59S3: Not to be confused with Barry Gibb Gibb.
- 42:01S4: Similar names, not similar styles.
- 42:03S2: Oh my goodness. We got to clear something up.
- 42:07S3: What's that?
- 42:09S2: Jesus is a profound teacher, correct?
- 42:14S3: Yes.
- 42:15S2: No question about that. Right. Most people would agree.
- 42:18S4: Yeah. Even unbelievers would say that.
- 42:19S2: Yeah. I mean, he was a phenomenally clear communicator. As
- 42:24S2: a matter of fact, a lot of what Jesus spoke
- 42:25S2: in the sermon on the Mount governs our morals and
- 42:27S2: ethics to this day. He undergirded, spiked, and even raised
- 42:32S2: the bar in the sermon on the Mount, on the
- 42:34S2: Old Testament Law, and made it inescapable that there's no
- 42:38S2: way of achieving those things apart from God's power. But
- 42:41S2: here's the question did Jesus ever really say he was God?
- 42:49S2: And even if he did, what kind of claim does
- 42:53S2: he have to that role? Coming up, special guest Doctor
- 42:58S2: Del Rosario with us in studio to answer that question
- 43:02S2: and more about the claims of Jesus.
- 43:04S1: Hang on your shot of hope to get you through
- 43:07S1: the day.
- 43:08S5: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
- 43:11S5: to stay in your past. And I want you to
- 43:13S5: know and believe that today.
- 43:15S1: You're listening to Carl and crew standing on the rock
- 43:19S1: each and every day. You're listening to Carl and Crew.
- 43:24S2: Never forget the first time I heard the word apologetics.
- 43:28S2: And I thought, wow, is that a guy that apologizes
- 43:31S2: a lot? It's Carl here with Carl and crew. And, uh,
- 43:35S2: we have got a treat for you today. I was
- 43:38S2: at Sand Lake Baptist Church. I first heard the apologetics.
- 43:41S2: I must have been in third or fourth grade, and
- 43:43S2: I thought, that's a guy that apologizes a lot. That's
- 43:45S2: what he does.
- 43:46S3: Alli it definitely not. Doctor Mikel Del Rosario in studio
- 43:51S3: with us teaches apologetics, philosophy, ethics and Bible classes here
- 43:55S3: at Moody Bible Institute. Author of a new book out.
- 43:58S3: Did Jesus really say he was God making sense of
- 44:01S3: his historical claims?
- 44:03S2: Well, you don't apologize, but you do explain for the
- 44:06S2: hope that's within you. Right, my man?
- 44:08S12: That's right. Explaining our faith with courage and compassion. That's
- 44:11S12: how I define apologetics.
- 44:12S2: I love that. Okay. Why? I'm just going to jump
- 44:16S2: into the deep end right here. Why tackle the question?
- 44:20S2: Did Jesus really say he was God? Why? What's the
- 44:24S2: why behind it?
- 44:26S12: There's a huge need right now for this. I've had
- 44:28S12: so many personal conversations where people ask, why should we
- 44:31S12: believe Jesus is God if he never said he was God?
- 44:34S12: We have friends from Muslim communities and Jehovah's Witnesses and
- 44:39S12: other people who wonder, where in the Bible does Jesus
- 44:42S12: say He's God? And then other people who wonder, maybe
- 44:44S12: the Bible says it, but how do we know that's
- 44:45S12: really history? And Ligonier Ministries did a study showing 43%
- 44:50S12: of people who even say they are evangelical Christians and
- 44:53S12: go to church regularly agreed with the statement, Jesus was
- 44:56S12: a great teacher, but he was not God.
- 44:58S9: Wow.
- 44:58S12: 43%.
- 45:00S13: That's staggering.
- 45:01S12: So there's a huge need for this right now, because
- 45:03S12: Christians can easily be led astray or begin to doubt
- 45:06S12: when they read critical scholars saying, the Bible is not
- 45:08S12: giving us real history.
- 45:09S3: Okay, so then what? What do we know about Jesus's
- 45:13S3: claims about himself? Both obviously from Scripture, but also from
- 45:16S3: other historical sources?
- 45:18S12: Yeah. Well, in my book, I do look at sources
- 45:20S12: outside Scripture, but I like to zoom in to two
- 45:22S12: particular scenes, one in Mark two and 1 in 14,
- 45:25S12: because in Mark chapter two, the healing of the paralytic,
- 45:27S12: Jesus is forgiving sins. He says to the paralytic, son,
- 45:31S12: your sins are forgiven. The scribes who are listening are
- 45:33S12: the theologians in the audience. They understood he was making
- 45:35S12: himself too close to God. Taking God's prerogatives for himself.
- 45:39S12: He's speaking like God does. He's acting like God does.
- 45:42S12: They think, why is he talking like that? He's blaspheming.
- 45:44S12: Who can forgive sins but God alone? And then Jesus says,
- 45:47S12: so that you may know that the Son of Man
- 45:49S12: has authority on earth to forgive sins, and he heals
- 45:51S12: the man. He says to the man, get up and walk.
- 45:53S12: And when the man gets up and walks, it shows
- 45:55S12: everyone that Jesus, the Son of Man, does have authority
- 45:58S12: to forgive sins. And so this is really Jesus pointing
- 46:02S12: to his divine authority. It's not just a human claim,
- 46:05S12: it's a divine claim. And he does a similar thing
- 46:07S12: in Mark 14 as well. But that's just one one
- 46:09S12: key text.
- 46:10S2: Love it. Doctor Michael del Rosario with us right now.
- 46:13S2: Why do you believe there is a relative absence of
- 46:18S2: direct claims that Jesus himself is God from Jesus's mouth?
- 46:24S12: Well, we have very high elevated claims in the Gospel
- 46:27S12: of John, where Jesus says things like, I and the
- 46:29S12: father are one. Before Abraham was, I am, and the
- 46:32S12: Jews who are listening pick up stones to stone him.
- 46:34S12: But for some people they'll say, well, John was written
- 46:37S12: last way out in the 80s or the 90s. And
- 46:40S12: so how come we don't see any hint of a
- 46:41S12: divine claim in the earlier Gospels, in the Synoptics? And
- 46:44S12: that's why in my book, I tackle the gospel of Mark,
- 46:46S12: because that's the earliest gospel to be written. As far
- 46:49S12: as you know, the majority of scholars believe that that's
- 46:50S12: the earliest gospel written. So I show that right in Mark,
- 46:54S12: you have Jesus claiming deity by showing what he does
- 46:58S12: and by speaking like God does. And so this is
- 47:02S12: not an explicit claim. Like Muslims will say, why don't
- 47:05S12: we see God? Jesus saying, I am God. But he
- 47:09S12: didn't claim to be God the Father, and he wasn't
- 47:11S12: claiming to be a rival deity to God the Father.
- 47:13S12: He was showing his divine authority by what he was doing.
- 47:16S12: His talk is potentially cheap. Just Jesus was showing that
- 47:20S12: he was speaking like God does, forgiving sin and acting
- 47:22S12: like God does healing. Psalm 103 says, God is the
- 47:25S12: one who heals and forgives.
- 47:27S2: Yeah. And I'm wondering if that's that direct line or
- 47:30S2: dotted line, because in Mark eight, I've been recently in
- 47:34S2: this text here, and he asks Peter and the disciples,
- 47:39S2: who do you say that I am? And others had
- 47:41S2: already been saying, John the Baptist, he's a prophet, he's Elijah.
- 47:45S2: He says, but no, but who do you say that
- 47:47S2: I am? And and Peter responds, you are the Christ.
- 47:51S2: There would have been no disconnect between the messiahship of
- 47:56S2: Jesus and the father for that audience. Would there have been. Doc?
- 48:02S12: Well, he says, you are the Christ of God, or
- 48:04S12: you are the Christ, the son of the living God. Well,
- 48:06S12: who sends the Messiah? It's God. Yeah. And so when
- 48:09S12: Jesus is before Caiaphas in Mark 14 and they say,
- 48:13S12: just tell us straight right now, are you the Christ?
- 48:16S12: Are you the Son of God? And Jesus says, I am.
- 48:19S12: And you will see the Son of Man seated at
- 48:21S12: the right hand of the power and coming with the
- 48:23S12: clouds of heaven. Jesus is being very explicit here talking
- 48:26S12: about the Son of Man. Always uses it like a
- 48:28S12: title with the Son of Man. And he's alluding to
- 48:31S12: Daniel seven, where one like a son of man, this
- 48:34S12: human being looks like a human being, but he also
- 48:35S12: has divine characteristics. He's riding the clouds like a deity does.
- 48:39S12: All the world's nations will worship him and his kingdom
- 48:41S12: will be unstoppable. Who is this guy? Jesus is connecting
- 48:44S12: that to Psalm 110, where he's seated at the right
- 48:47S12: hand of God. That's God's viceregent he has authority in
- 48:51S12: heaven to judge sins. And so when Caiaphas hears this,
- 48:54S12: he's like, we are God's representatives on planet earth, and
- 48:57S12: you're going to judge us. Who are you? How dare you?
- 49:00S12: That's the whole vibe I get in this scene. So
- 49:02S12: when you put these two things together, Jesus is claiming
- 49:05S12: to have authority on earth to forgive sins and in
- 49:08S12: heaven to judge sins. This is authority in heaven and
- 49:11S12: on earth over all of reality. This is what it
- 49:13S12: means to be divine, to be on the creator side
- 49:16S12: of the creator. Creature divide.
- 49:18S3: Doctor Mikel del Rosario with us right now, the book
- 49:21S3: is called Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? How
- 49:24S3: do historians investigate the claims of Jesus? They're not likely
- 49:30S3: to look first to the Christian Bible. Where are they looking?
- 49:34S12: Well, they would look outside the Christian Bible. For some
- 49:37S12: who want to start with the existence of Jesus. For example,
- 49:41S12: the Jewish historian Josephus, writing in the first century about
- 49:45S12: the Jewish role in Jesus death shortly after that, about 180.
- 49:48S12: You get Tacitus, who's a Roman historian, who's writing about
- 49:51S12: the Roman role in Jesus death. Both of them put
- 49:53S12: it under Pontius Pilate. And the time that Pontius Pilate
- 49:56S12: was the procurator of Judea. But this is really just
- 49:59S12: an invitation to look at the text itself, because even
- 50:02S12: atheist scholars and Jewish scholars know that Ground Zero for
- 50:05S12: talking about Jesus is the New Testament, the writings of
- 50:07S12: Paul and the Gospels. And so what they would do
- 50:11S12: then is say, are there things that help us increase
- 50:13S12: the probability that these things in the Bible really happened?
- 50:16S12: Even if a Jewish scholar doesn't believe it's the Word
- 50:18S12: of God? And something like multiple attestation is what they
- 50:22S12: call corroboration is the name of the game. So there's
- 50:24S12: a rule called multiple attestation. Can we find Jesus saying
- 50:28S12: things like this in more than one story, there's a
- 50:30S12: multiple attestation of theme that Jesus was known as a
- 50:33S12: miracle worker. For example, so many stories of Jesus healing people,
- 50:36S12: healing lame people. When John's disciples came to Jesus, Jesus made.
- 50:41S12: He said, go back and tell John what you've heard
- 50:43S12: and seen the lame walk. And so historians will say, okay,
- 50:46S12: there's all over the tradition. Jesus known as a miracle worker,
- 50:50S12: Jesus healing lame people saying, your sins are forgiven. In
- 50:53S12: Luke seven, he tells the lady with the alabaster jar,
- 50:55S12: your sins are forgiven. So even those who say, I
- 50:58S12: don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. They
- 51:00S12: might say, you know what? There's probably something historical here,
- 51:02S12: because there's so much in the tradition about Jesus being
- 51:05S12: known as a miracle worker and forgiving sins.
- 51:07S2: You know, Michael, I gotta tell you, it's I wonder
- 51:12S2: if probably how do I word this? One of the
- 51:15S2: big hiccups with the deity of Christ is that he
- 51:20S2: was fully human. And I know it was a hiccup
- 51:23S2: for some. And maybe as today, because in Mark six,
- 51:27S2: it talks about Jesus going into Nazareth and what tripped
- 51:31S2: up the all of these nazarites was that they hung.
- 51:38S2: They knew his sisters, they knew his brothers from the text,
- 51:41S2: and they knew his mom and dad. And they're like,
- 51:44S2: we know them. Isn't that funny that they rejected the
- 51:48S2: very miracles and workings of Jesus, and he couldn't do
- 51:53S2: much there. The text says, because his humanity, or I
- 51:57S2: should say those around him and his family got in
- 52:00S2: the way of his deity.
- 52:01S12: Yeah. We need to be able to defend both the
- 52:03S12: full deity of Jesus and the full humanity of Jesus. Interestingly,
- 52:07S12: throughout church history, there was a time where people actually
- 52:09S12: had to make an apologetic or a defense for Jesus humanity,
- 52:13S12: because some people said, well, maybe he's a spiritual being,
- 52:15S12: but he's not actually human. And today it's actually flipped
- 52:18S12: where a lot of people are, are like, well, sure,
- 52:21S12: he was a real human being. I can go there
- 52:23S12: with you. But was he more than a man? How
- 52:25S12: do you believe he's actually God Almighty? And so we
- 52:27S12: have to be able to defend both that Jesus is
- 52:29S12: fully God and fully man.
- 52:31S3: Interesting this shift. I'm curious, what do you what do
- 52:34S3: you think accounts for that shift to where it used
- 52:37S3: to be, proving that he actually was man, and now
- 52:40S3: it's proving that he's actually God?
- 52:42S12: Well, I think in the ancient world, people understood there
- 52:45S12: is a supernatural world behind just what we can see.
- 52:48S12: And today, with with naturalism, people are less likely to
- 52:53S12: start there, especially when you're talking about critical scholars doing history.
- 52:57S12: There's a suspicion of supernatural things. And so even just
- 53:00S12: to start with, the humanity of Jesus sometimes is a
- 53:02S12: is a hurdle. But once people get there now the
- 53:05S12: question is, who did Jesus claim to be? And is
- 53:07S12: there evidence that he was one claiming to be God,
- 53:10S12: and two, that he rose from the dead to prove it?
- 53:12S3: The short answer is yes and yes.
- 53:14S12: Spoiler alert. Yes.
- 53:17S2: What does it matter? No, no. Let's put it to
- 53:20S2: the let's put it this to the great promise and
- 53:22S2: the hope when we see Jesus as really God, how
- 53:27S2: does that impact our day to day life?
- 53:29S12: Wow, what a huge question. As I was doing my
- 53:31S12: study writing this book, this really impacted me because Jesus
- 53:35S12: is either Lord of all or he's not Lord at all.
- 53:38S12: And so when we say Jesus is Lord, it should
- 53:41S12: remind us first of all, Lord Kurios in the Greek.
- 53:44S12: That is how the Old Testament translated into Greek in
- 53:47S12: the Septuagint, how they translated the divine name Yahweh. So
- 53:51S12: when we say Jesus is Lord, that means Jesus is
- 53:53S12: Yahweh God. And so what areas of my life as
- 53:56S12: a Christian do I still have to fully give over
- 53:58S12: to the Lordship of Jesus? Maybe this area or that area?
- 54:02S12: And daily I need to be reminding myself Jesus is
- 54:05S12: Lord over all of my life. And if Jesus can
- 54:08S12: forgive sins, if he has the authority on earth to
- 54:10S12: forgive sins like he says in Mark two, that's a
- 54:13S12: major step in coming to faith, isn't it? You have
- 54:15S12: to believe that Jesus has the authority to forgive your sins.
- 54:18S12: And Peter, on the day of Pentecost says, everyone who
- 54:20S12: calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
- 54:22S12: He's quoting Joel. Then he calls Jesus Lord. He says,
- 54:25S12: Jesus is the Lord. You need to call upon for
- 54:27S12: the forgiveness of your sins. And 3000 people got saved.
- 54:29S12: It's the heart of the gospel. It's who Jesus is.
- 54:32S12: And it challenges us as Christians to.
- 54:34S3: The book is called did Jesus really say he was
- 54:36S3: God making sense of his historical claims? Our guest also
- 54:40S3: host a weekly podcast called The Apologetics Guy. You can
- 54:44S3: check both out. Just text Guy to 805 557898GUY. Just
- 54:50S3: spell it out guy to 805 557898.