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Mewgenics · Awoken Game Club Podcast

• 0:00
  to the awoken game club what's going on patrick hello ben we're
• 0:06
  back we made it to
• 0:07
  episode five we're we're rolling here that's uh no no problem
• 0:12
  so far right we're
• 0:14
  still playing games turns out i know i know still enjoying
• 0:17
  video games um yeah
• 0:21
  before we jump into mugenics if this is your first time here
• 0:24
  awoken game club's a
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: monthly video game book club
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: We play indie games.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's check our fancy.
• 0:29
  And then we debrief,
• 0:30
  debate,
• 0:30
  and celebrate them after playing them throughout the month.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do follow us on Substack to get notifications,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: see Patrick's art,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: and chat with us.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Our game next month is Neon White.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Very excited about that.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And also, each and every episode is going to be packed full of spoilers.
• 0:46
  So treat these like any monthly book club where all the
• 0:49
  attendees have had their
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: time with the book or game.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are worried about spoilers, this episode will be evergreen.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Come back and listen after you've played.
• 0:58
  And this episode is Mugenics,
• 1:00
  which for me anyway,
• 1:03
  there might not be that many spoilers.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was very excited about this game.
• 1:13
  I would say one of the things that I want to talk about is how
• 1:18
  your tastes align
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: with a Steam darling.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would describe this game as a Steam darling character.
• 1:25
  overwhelmingly positive sold i think a million copies in its
• 1:29
  first week um made by
• 1:31
  or published developed primarily by two people um so like
• 1:37
  normally that is right
• 1:39
  down like my interests lane and this game did not hit for me i
• 1:46
  was waiting for the
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: but like clearly all of the setup was a there was following a but yeah
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess before we get into the game,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: there's some things about the people that made it and the preamble.
• 2:00
  But I am just curious,
• 2:01
  how do you feel like your tastes align with Indie Darlings?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I like to see what all the hullabaloo is about, right?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think you had mentioned this game blew up.
• 2:14
  It easily or very quickly had like some 60,000,
• 2:19
  60 or 80,000 concurrent players on Steam.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a little,
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: not necessarily a shadow drop,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: but like there was not a ton of marketing prior to actual release.
• 2:28
  It was just like,
• 2:29
  hey,
• 2:29
  this is ready and it'll be released in like a month.
• 2:32
  something like that um so it had it has all the right check
• 2:36
  marks um and as we got
• 2:38
  into the game i think for all the reasons people love it uh it
• 2:44
  it did very well but
• 2:45
  i also did not play it as much as i would have thought
• 2:48
  especially given some of the
• 2:50
  time extra time we we baked into this so uh have you seen indie
• 2:55
  game the movie
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have not.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to watch this movie.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to chat about it maybe on the next pod or something.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to watch it because it's technically not our assignment,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: but I do think you'd really enjoy it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So Indie Game, the movie, came out in 2012.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was a documentary that chronicled the making of three games,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Super Meat Boy,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Fez,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: and Braid,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: which were some of the...
• 3:28
  I would say it was during the time in which Xbox Live Arcade
• 3:32
  was starting to do indie games.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So indie games were starting to make it to console.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 3:38
  These were some of the first games to achieve enormous
• 3:42
  commercial success,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: but be made by a very,
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: very small team.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Edmund McMullin,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: the maker of Mugenics,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: was one of the two developers of Super Meat Boy,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: which was a huge critical success.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I had like... And so this movie was so formative for me.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was so...
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so inspiring.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that...
• 4:04
  It felt like normal people who didn't have these big
• 4:07
  high-powered jobs in the game
• 4:09
  industry were getting to live out their dreams and be creative
• 4:12
  and everything that
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: comes along with that.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that movie was maybe like the biggest reason that I,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: at one point in my life,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: quit my job and made a game by myself and published it on Steam.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was like that influential on me.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say that Edmund McMillan is like...
• 4:30
  I mean,
• 4:30
  honestly,
• 4:31
  all the personalities in that movie are amazing,
• 4:33
  but he was like a star.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that was the start of his, I would say, fandom.
• 4:40
  I would say he's like an extremely popular and well-known indie
• 4:44
  game developer.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess besides not having seen the movie,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: you've probably heard of like Binding of Isaac and things like that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: What did you know about Edmund McMillan?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't say I knew of the individual, the personality.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do know is obviously his themes,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: his consistency with his artistic design and choices.
• 5:07
  I actually didn't play a ton of Super Meat Boy,
• 5:10
  and I played a little bit of Binding of Isaac.
• 5:13
  And what is obviously the defining features of those games are
• 5:19
  both the tone,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: the art style,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: the themes.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that is very true for Mugenics still.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know who he is as an individual,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: if he is as dark as some of the themes in Mugenics.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I imagine he's very interesting.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: like he's definitely got,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: kind of a dark,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: kind of not cringey style,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: because I think it's more,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: it has been more,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: clever than that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess I loved Super Meat Boy.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I finished it.
• 5:56
  I never got drawn in by Binding of Isaac,
• 5:59
  even though I know that game is wildly popular.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: But this game was kind of like...
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the art,
• 6:07
  which is something that I've always kind of liked about him and
• 6:09
  that he's like an
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: auteur and has a singular perspective and nothing else feels like it.
• 6:13
  The art actively or the humor and tone like actively detracted
• 6:19
  from my experience
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: where like I'm...
• 6:22
  one of my i think i'm 34 years old and i'm like am i too old
• 6:27
  for this i was like
• 6:29
  like i really thought that the humor was um it kind of gave me
• 6:34
  more size than like
• 6:38
  laughter and i'm like is steam is the average age of steam just
• 6:41
  a lot younger or am
• 6:43
  i just like i'm not even i'm like a i don't know well how did
• 6:46
  the humor hit for you
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this feels very Invader Zim humor.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And let's be honest, Invader Zim was very cool in middle school.
• 6:55
  But I because I think there's a little bit of maybe two things
• 6:59
  to talk about with
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: this is there's obviously the very graphic component of it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some options.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you if you slid down the humping bar,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: but that was a bar to slide if you if you were off put by that.
• 7:14
  and i do think with all the personalities of the npcs that you
• 7:18
  would eventually
• 7:18
  donate cats to they are all very xoxo random they're so
• 7:24
  annoying yeah so i so
• 7:27
  annoying it is all on brand i think um maybe it's a little bit
• 7:32
  more um or i guess
• 7:35
  less subtle than some maybe some of binding of isaac's although
• 7:38
  binding of isaac
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: didn't have a ton of
• 7:40
  npcs that were like talking to you but maybe what detracted in
• 7:45
  this a little bit is
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: there were there's a little bit too much npc dialogue
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: like maybe without the NPC,
• 7:51
  because I liked I like the dark premise of like breeding cats
• 7:56
  to take out to
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: battle.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think that is incredibly dark,
• 7:59
  but like I respect them for going there and I could see how it
• 8:03
  would make for a
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: good game conceit.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like it almost dwelled on that too much.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 8:10
  we know we have a very funny and edgy premise and we're going
• 8:14
  to like kind of
• 8:16
  spend too much time exploring it because i'm just like i i'm
• 8:20
  like did i outgrow
• 8:22
  this sense of humor maybe i would have really appreciated this
• 8:24
  and like at a
• 8:25
  younger age um but i think that something that really hurt this
• 8:29
  game for me was
• 8:30
  that slay the spyro 2 came out like a month after this came out
• 8:34
  and it literally i
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this game,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: from what I've heard,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: for people who've played it for tens of hours,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: is tactically extremely competent.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: But Slay the Spire 2 just felt more like a game for adults.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what was that?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Conqueror's Bad Fur Day?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of got that vibe.
• 8:59
  I feel like the impressiveness of the tactics in this game is
• 9:04
  it's hard for me to enjoy them
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: One,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: because the humor is bothering me,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: but two,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: because the cat breeding mechanics,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: and this is an opinion that I heard on many podcasts,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: are really underdeveloped.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the reactions that I heard,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: even though this game was getting nines and nines and a halves,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: were that for the cat breeding meta outside of the combat,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: they really needed a spreadsheet.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was very challenging to see what traits each cat's had and...
• 9:35
  even though they had a little symbol on them of who went on a
• 9:37
  battle and who didn't.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm playing on my Steam Deck.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't see anything.
• 9:42
  That was honestly the worst UI experience that I had was trying
• 9:45
  to figure out the cats.
• 9:46
  And one of my little tidbits under my Make It Better was,
• 9:51
  honestly,
• 9:51
  they needed...
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I never heard...
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: The spreadsheet idea,
• 9:55
  but they needed a web of what skills you had in your trees like
• 9:59
  available with your
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: cats.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, all I really cared about were the skills.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let me filter by that because honestly,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately,
• 10:06
  all of the personality of the cats are and reasons why I like
• 10:10
  some of these types
• 10:11
  of games and other games in the genre is the attachment of the
• 10:15
  people that are
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: sending into battle.
• 10:17
  It felt I felt obviously disassociated when I had to basically
• 10:21
  donate them or some
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: of the times they have a note here.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: One of them just randomly died.
• 10:27
  during a fight at night and maybe that's a i want to call it a
• 10:30
  skill issue but like
• 10:32
  yeah maybe because i didn't have their comfort a level enough
• 10:34
  but i didn't i didn't
• 10:37
  like the loop that the game puts you through i thought like
• 10:41
  whether it be you
• 10:42
  needed the money for the furniture and you needed more
• 10:45
  furniture opens by doing
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: more runs but as i was doing runs my cats were killing themselves and
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: The runs are too long.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: The runs were too long.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I also was like,
• 10:57
  that's the one thing is like you took it over an hour to get
• 10:59
  through all three
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: areas.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I immediately have to donate them.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't love that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And when I didn't want to donate them,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: like I had said,
• 11:09
  I rushed through a night and then one of them just dies
• 11:11
  randomly in a fight to RNG
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: and
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't love the gene passing mechanic.
• 11:17
  I honestly didn't really love any of the outside of the game,
• 11:20
  our city builder component.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily my jam.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I liked a lot of other things about this game.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't necessarily dislike the humor.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of moved past it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is edgy.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: We get it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately...
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I spent no longer than the five seconds I had to with an NPC,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: nor do I feel inspired to draw any of these,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: or do I think any of them have a lasting impression?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But not necessarily turned off, I would say.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think part of what went against this game,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: and it's maybe something to consider for picking future game club games,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: is that it's a rough feeling when you're not really...
• 12:06
  vibing with a 100 plus hour game like the a shorter game might
• 12:12
  have a carrot on a
• 12:13
  stick that would get you a little bit further or something
• 12:16
  that's more narrative
• 12:16
  would would propel you to the next beat or something that has
• 12:20
  like just a more
• 12:22
  finite scope I think I because the whole time unfortunately I
• 12:26
  knew this game was
• 12:27
  like a 100 hour game and so I think that when I was starting to
• 12:32
  really just want to
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: play other things and I
• 12:36
  uh or have not a ton of time i just it i couldn't just spend 10
• 12:41
  hours because i'm
• 12:42
  like well what's the point i guess um and that's like nothing
• 12:46
  against the game it's
• 12:47
  more just being a working parent and having like a month to
• 12:53
  play the game and i
• 12:54
  think it's just like i do feel bad for this game that the fact
• 12:57
  that i knew it was
• 12:58
  going to be like a fire emblem campaign was like not
• 13:03
  necessarily what i needed
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't listen to a ton of podcasts about games in general,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: nor do I know what this game's endgame looks like,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: but what does this endgame look like?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I beat the first three levels,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: and yes,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: there's a harder path,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: and I think there is another path that I didn't discover yet,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: but I did that in eight hours.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, where's the other 90s?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I've been donating cats over and over again,
• 13:33
  but surely you can't just be doing the same three levels and
• 13:36
  just donating two to
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: three cats.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it looks like there's three main chapters.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: The first one's the alley,
• 13:47
  and it looks like the alley can lead into either the sewers or
• 13:49
  the junkyard.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we ever unlocked the junkyard.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I never went to the junkyard.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: so we would go to the sewers,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: and then the sewers leads to the caves,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: which I think we both got to.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the junkyard, if you unlock that, it leads to the boneyard.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the boneyard and the junkyard both lead to,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: the caves and the boneyard both lead to the throbbing domain,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: which is like a,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I guess a,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of like,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 14:17
  the heart and play this power one where you complete three
• 14:19
  quests to unlock a
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: secret final domain.
• 14:23
  And then my understanding when I was listening to some people
• 14:25
  that were kind of
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: much,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: much deeper,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 14:28
  is that oh it looks like there's a whole we were only in act
• 14:33
  one with those
• 14:34
  chapters but then there's an act two that happens when you
• 14:37
  finish the caves and the
• 14:39
  boneyard that has the desert the bunker the core and then
• 14:43
  another secret thing the
• 14:43
  rift and then there's an act three like we we didn't even
• 14:46
  scratch not even scratch
• 14:47
  the surface it's like there's so many chapters with so many
• 14:50
  songs which so many
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: mechanics with um there's actually a crazy uh
• 14:55
  i'll share this in the show notes but there's like a whole swim
• 14:58
  lane of all the
• 14:59
  different zones and then something that i was hearing from some
• 15:03
  of the people that
• 15:04
  were getting much further is that once if you do take the time
• 15:09
  to kind of breed
• 15:11
  super cats and you just get this really good gene pool uh you
• 15:17
  start to get even a
• 15:18
  totally different combat experience because you've just got
• 15:20
  absolutely like
• 15:23
  turbo terminator cats and then you start to progress more in
• 15:27
  the other things yeah
• 15:29
  so i think that's like kind of where it leads but that's good
• 15:32
  to know but i think
• 15:33
  it takes a lot of time to get i think that's i think it is like
• 15:36
  a 300 hour game to
• 15:38
  do all that um and i think and i think that the the developer
• 15:41
  was tweeting tyler
• 15:43
  one of the other developers was saying that not all the secrets
• 15:45
  have been found yet
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: either that's good which this game didn't really strike me as like
• 15:51
  secrets game but i don't know i feel like they're a little bit
• 15:54
  kind of it's like
• 15:56
  okay sure like it must be a very obscure secret because there's
• 16:01
  millions of players
• 16:02
  with millions of hours in this game everyone says that and even
• 16:05
  even concerned it
• 16:06
  with stardew valley he's like guys you haven't discovered it
• 16:09
  yet yeah it's like of
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: course you're gonna say that um but if 99.999 percent of the players
• 16:15
  that's not for them so like okay hey we're talking about it so
• 16:19
  clearly it's worked
• 16:20
  you're right you're right um yeah so i think like uh i guess
• 16:27
  positives tasty legs
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: and crispy thighs yes
• 16:36
  so funny the first time I booted it up and my dog heard the
• 16:41
  meows he started
• 16:42
  woofing he was like very confused which that's points for that
• 16:47
  game to get my dog
• 16:48
  to woof back to the negatives no undo button did that bite you
• 17:00
  no not particularly
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: there are a few games that have an undo button
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Fire Emblem has an undo button.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think other games in this genre... Tactical Breach Wizards.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I never played that one.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: That one has undo all the way back to the start of the level.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Darkest Dungeon doesn't have an undo button.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: No...
• 17:22
  but darkest dungeon i feel like is the ui is not so finicky
• 17:26
  that you misclick uh
• 17:28
  because it's like the combat targeting is really
• 17:31
  straightforward even once you've
• 17:33
  picked like you pick a sometimes it picks which slot it's
• 17:36
  attacking for you and
• 17:37
  then sometimes it's like pick one of the two front people kind
• 17:41
  of thing this this i
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: i uh maybe i'm
• 17:46
  clumsy but i probably misclicked four or five times in my time
• 17:50
  with the game and i
• 17:51
  played it for not that long so like i was uh very frustrated
• 17:56
  with the lack of undo
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: button and then did you ever try and save scum no
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you save scum, it's pretty funny.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does the game call you out on it?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's really good.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the game,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: like one of the NPCs,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's really cringy NPC dialogue,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: but I respect that it calls you out on it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you this cut scene that you have to watch that's like,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know what you're doing.
• 18:21
  Like,
• 18:22
  you're only allowed to do this one time or we're going to kill
• 18:25
  you kind of thing.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Which I like that they had that little Easter egg.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're not going to let me save scum,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: then give me an undo button because I had like twice where...
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I misclicked either, which I found this UI to be very easy to misclick.
• 18:42
  And then I'm getting like shamed by this cringy NPC while I'm
• 18:46
  just trying to like
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: undo my misclick.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then if I misclick again, I'm just like SOL.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very annoyed by the lack of an undo button.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Brutal.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't particularly have any issues.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I could have been maybe a mouse thing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I also am playing on a bigger screen.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 19:05
  But I think I could have maybe liked an undo button or maybe
• 19:08
  even like sometimes
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: games with accessibility,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: they might have like a like an asterisk,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: almost like playing Cuphead on the easier mode.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, you played it with undo buttons, but like
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your asterisk that just marks it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that couldn't have hurt.
• 19:29
  But I do feel like if you're flirting with the Super Meat Boy
• 19:33
  and Binding of Isaac
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: crowd,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: they very intentionally show you no mercy.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 19:39
  I do think this game wanted you to feel pain,
• 19:42
  like you said,
• 19:42
  like at all turns,
• 19:44
  right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cats randomly dying, like brutal...
• 19:48
  like squad wipes and permadeath um yeah nothing about this game
• 19:53
  was like which i
• 19:54
  think appeals to the steam masses like the steam masses love
• 19:59
  like a game that's not
• 20:00
  for quote filthy casuals um oh yeah but for me i i prefer the
• 20:07
  accessibility option
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: and to me it's not even like i don't think it makes your game
• 20:13
  harder I just think it makes it different like if I'm
• 20:16
  dedicating a lot of brain
• 20:17
  power trying to figure out an optimum path and I guess for me
• 20:23
  it wasn't even that I
• 20:24
  ever wanted to undo a bad move I just wanted to undo a misclick
• 20:29
  so yeah I mean I
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: think it's a little bit
• 20:33
  just made my another thing that made well i was gonna say
• 20:37
  something that made my
• 20:37
  runs less fun but the runs were fun like i enjoyed i enjoyed
• 20:42
  the combats um when
• 20:44
  you've when you figure it out a little bit like when you got
• 20:47
  the curve down and you
• 20:49
  weren't taking damage i i like into i didn't play i haven't
• 20:52
  played slay the spire
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: as much as you but i i
• 20:56
  definitely remember when I realized there is a way to like
• 21:00
  mitigate damage
• 21:00
  basically just like keep your dudes alive you understand the
• 21:05
  enemy you can
• 21:05
  understand their AI a little bit and I do feel like the game
• 21:09
  does that well the
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: enemies are consistently doing what
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: they say they're going to do.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so that can make your positioning matter.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And learning that I think was was good.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: other than potential UI issues with misclicking,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like the fights were fair,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: that whether it be
• 21:33
  uh like uh the spider is coming in and like if they reduce your
• 21:38
  cat to zero they
• 21:40
  you like lose the whole body or um the leeches running across
• 21:44
  the screen like you
• 21:45
  the enemies are very clear and it for the most part tells you
• 21:48
  when you right click
• 21:50
  into the like what they're capable of doing and what they're
• 21:54
  intending to do
• 21:56
  And all of the arenas had really cool and unique mechanics that
• 22:01
  if you're playing
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: tens of hours,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to get those early arenas just on lock.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what every enemy's expected movement pattern is,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: what the win conditions are,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: what the losing conditions are.
• 22:13
  So I think I agree that the game was willing to teach you what
• 22:19
  you needed to know
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: to make good tactical decisions.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I do think tactical tactics games...
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I forget how different they are than deck-building games.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: they're both turn-based strategy,
• 22:31
  but tactics games have such a larger possibility space that
• 22:35
  they're not as...
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would say they're not as easy.
• 22:39
  I think when you're just choosing between three options and
• 22:43
  which card to take or...
• 22:46
  five cards on which to play on one or two enemies i'm not like
• 22:51
  both games are
• 22:51
  incredibly strategic but tactics games aren't as accessible uh
• 22:58
  you have to kind of
• 22:59
  want to want to live in it yeah do you think like i the way i
• 23:05
  interpret that is
• 23:06
  also maybe these tactics games that gives you a little bit more
• 23:10
  breathing room
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: because there are there were times plenty of
• 23:13
  throughout the game where I would experience a new mechanic or
• 23:17
  if you remember the
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: rat bomb guy.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, you defused his bombs.
• 23:23
  But every once in a while,
• 23:24
  a rogue like fire spell or attack would hit a bomb.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, it's defused and you hit it.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, and it blows up.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:34
  But I always felt like there was room for maybe one error or a
• 23:39
  few errors.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you could see
• 23:42
  You typically wouldn't lose the cats,
• 23:44
  fortunately,
• 23:46
  or if a run was basically chalked.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like there were maybe once or twice.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't complete too many runs,
• 23:54
  but I could just call it at the whatever the second level was
• 23:59
  like the caves.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I'm not going to make it through the next level.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to call it here and take my wounds and go home.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I felt like there was a little bit of room for error.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I was I was OK with that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like there was room for error.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I also feel like there was room to cheese.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I had a couple cheesy battles.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 24:20
  I think that that's part of what's really fun about these games
• 24:23
  with so many
• 24:25
  mechanics and interactions is that you can get these broken cat
• 24:28
  builds or broken
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: items or broken,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: combat situations.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think compared to something like Slay the Spire,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: which I'm going to keep comparing it to because I played both these games
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: simultaneously a lot.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like...
• 24:41
  you can just kind of stumble upon a winning strategy which that
• 24:45
  doesn't really
• 24:45
  happen and it's like the spire like i i had some i got some
• 24:50
  combination of items
• 24:52
  spells and cat level and team mechanics where i was able to use
• 24:59
  a mage cat to just
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: perma freeze this huge boss that had like
• 25:04
  like i only had two cats left and they both had like 10 health
• 25:08
  left and this boss
• 25:09
  had 40 health left and he was just gonna wipe me but i i like
• 25:14
  like seven turns in a
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: row just did like four damage over and over and over again because he was
• 25:18
  permanently frozen or permanently stunned i can't remember i
• 25:21
  think it was frozen um
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: which which felt good like it was fun to be like stumble upon that
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the discovery was a large part of the fun,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: especially if we're only playing a tenth of the game.
• 25:36
  Like we're in mostly discovery mode as opposed to maybe sweat
• 25:39
  mode when you're trying to
• 25:42
  do some higher level cat stuff but like some of mine were i
• 25:46
  don't know if you ever
• 25:46
  got the butt scooch where like every time you would scooch one
• 25:50
  and a minion would
• 25:51
  spawn yeah like that minions they would just mess with the a
• 25:56
  enemy ai so much
• 25:57
  you're just like oh man my good dudes are free and i'm wasting
• 26:01
  so much enemy turn
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: economy on them targeting these little minions or um it's just so gross
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was awful, but I was just like, scoot, scoot.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt invincible.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: My boys were clean.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of the original Darkest Dungeon.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't thought about that game as a comparison.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 26:22
  with the permadeath and with the cut your losses and with the
• 26:27
  really merciless
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: dungeon crawls,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: they do remind me of each other a lot.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think I just prefer...
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: the darkest dungeon combat to a tactics games.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I like tactical breach wizards and,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: into the breach,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think could be more of a strategy game than a tactics game.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: But this game,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:50
  the perma death and the meta game kind of detracted from the
• 26:54
  tactics for me.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I my biggest attraction for me in this game was the meta game.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't like the cat donation system.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't like going through the night.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You had to just spend currency to keep cats alive.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought the tracking the skills for for me,
• 27:15
  I were who might literally break out a notebook or an Excel
• 27:19
  spreadsheet to be as
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: needed.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is too much.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And also, yeah, the cats are moving.
• 27:25
  And I know you can press left and right instead of clicking
• 27:28
  them in that little house.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I...
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So annoying.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's just too much going on.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's too much going on.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so annoying.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a lot of really good art, honestly.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of really good art.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the gameplay in that moment was, yeah, frustrating.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: More criticisms, man.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really like...
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of like feeling...
• 27:50
  guilty that i bounced off of it but talking with you i'm like
• 27:54
  no all my criticisms
• 27:55
  are fire um so like my next one is that compared to something
• 28:00
  like yeah darkest
• 28:01
  dungeon or slay the spire the i don't feel like the traversal
• 28:06
  outside the game is
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: necessary so when you're when you're going through that overworld
• 28:11
  there's there's very little branching paths so often it's just
• 28:14
  like sequential so
• 28:17
  i'm like this is not as interesting as slay the spiral that has
• 28:20
  more branching
• 28:21
  paths and darkest dungeon where you're literally going through
• 28:25
  like a kind of a
• 28:26
  maze kind of a thing which you're still picking like do i run
• 28:31
  straight to the end
• 28:32
  or do i like look around for loot there's no decision here and
• 28:36
  then so the
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: traversal i feel like it didn't
• 28:39
  add a lot and then the the question mark events were so lame
• 28:45
  there were so many
• 28:46
  just pick the highest stat or flip a coin question mark events
• 28:50
  yeah it's like you
• 28:51
  know you have those three options and then you pick the one
• 28:53
  that's the most green
• 28:54
  and you're like yep what what am i doing here like this is is
• 28:58
  this like why am i
• 29:00
  spending time like give me an interesting decision like some
• 29:03
  say the spire every
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: single
• 29:07
  inflection point or question mark or event gives you a decision
• 29:11
  that makes you
• 29:13
  pause and yeah i don't i don't need like all this padding
• 29:17
  between fights that is
• 29:18
  just flip a coin or pick the highest stat like i just i didn't
• 29:22
  understand why a
• 29:23
  game that was in development for like 10 years didn't have more
• 29:27
  interesting
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: encounters
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like it felt very binary as like you either win or you lost.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: There was a little bit of nuance with some of the loot losses.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you got like glass in your paws,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: you could like inflict bleeding,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: but you always receive bleeding.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But those never felt like choices or...
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember when I did play Slay the Spire,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: you could make a choice to go deeper,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: and you're like,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know the risks,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: but based on the run,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: based on the other variables that I have going for me,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I could get an optimal build here.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like in this game, it's like you said, it's yes or no, and
• 30:06
  something happens yes something happens no and then all of a
• 30:08
  sudden you're in the
• 30:09
  next thing like there was no fun in the choice or even like and
• 30:13
  then obviously the
• 30:15
  question marks are laced in this humor that we're not
• 30:18
  necessarily buying into um
• 30:20
  yeah they were they often did feel like punchlines yeah rather
• 30:23
  than game which is
• 30:25
  okay like it's okay for a game to have flavor and i think i
• 30:28
  think you're right
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: there were a lot of very
• 30:31
  funny question marks i didn't even think about that but all i
• 30:33
  could think about was
• 30:34
  how um the choice was not interesting yeah i will say like i
• 30:41
  did enjoy some of the
• 30:43
  benefits that i did get um because my funny story with that one
• 30:47
  i got a daddy shark
• 30:48
  pet which is basically this hulking shark that is typically an
• 30:52
  enemy that only
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: moves one unit it's your friend
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you basically keep him the rest of the run.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I had him for the rest of the run.
• 31:02
  And if you remember,
• 31:03
  the final boss in the sewers is like that blob that rolls.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: He accidentally rolled near my shark and he had 100 health.
• 31:13
  And the skill of the shark is it will just one hit KO anything
• 31:20
  next to it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it just like ate the boss.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I have the clip.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share it with you later.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Also, the steam captures my voice.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just literally like, what the shit?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll share that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a cool thing.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you hope that like, obviously, I don't know.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking of like streamers playing the game.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the combat's good.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's a win condition for the final run.
• 31:47
  And also you can like heal it because it was taking damage this
• 31:50
  whole time.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like trying to keep him safe and fostering him.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: He did eventually pass.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't make it with me to the end, but that's okay.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: He did.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: He did his job though.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a shield.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the combat is really, really fun.
• 32:04
  I had a run where I had like one or two abilities where every
• 32:08
  time I would use the
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: ability,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: it would leave barbed wire.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, like fighting that same boss, I...
• 32:15
  75% of the damage I did was not direct damage because I just
• 32:19
  kept baiting him into
• 32:20
  my barbed wire I found the battlefield control when you really
• 32:25
  discovered it and
• 32:26
  especially in tandem with learning the enemy's AI it was just
• 32:31
  like oh this is cool
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: no one's faulting it for the fighting
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is like the tactics dream, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: That you're like a military general,
• 32:39
  like surveying the battlefield and like pulling the right
• 32:41
  strings to kind of like
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: control the outcome.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is a really fun feeling.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a favorite cat?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's like one of my game club questions.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to say not a cat because I don't remember any of them.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Class of cat was definitely the mage.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  the mage or maybe like basically the the purple and the green
• 33:06
  like the projectile
• 33:08
  ones i feel like some of the tank like all the tanks kind of
• 33:14
  blended together a
• 33:14
  little bit like i felt like the item the items or upgrades that
• 33:18
  i chose for them
• 33:19
  mattered more than the class for the melee classes although i
• 33:23
  did get some some
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: interesting ones um
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the projectile people, I feel like I did a lot more repositioning.
• 33:33
  The mages would have these spells that either you would send a
• 33:38
  line across the
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: whole battlefield,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: or you would have these...
• 33:43
  what is it like a misfortune old and yeah 10 link of legends or
• 33:48
  it's like exactly a
• 33:49
  cone yes like right so i had a lot more like positioning
• 33:54
  puzzles with the the mage
• 33:57
  that i enjoyed and then with the with the green class i had
• 34:00
  some fun kind of
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: projectiles where i could it was not limited by
• 34:06
  field of view i could just kind of throw these stuff over yeah
• 34:10
  i enjoyed the lobs
• 34:11
  and like lobs that would reposition enemies like so yeah those
• 34:15
  two classes i enjoy
• 34:16
  the most yeah i i also liked the green ranger they i always
• 34:22
  just felt like they
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: were the most reliable damage
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: They were always my position.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they often had like 75% hit rate with max damage.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was like a bouncing one, a bouncing passive.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say my other one was the red fighter cats.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I made them super dumb.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I gave them a ton of movement.
• 34:45
  And I basically just sent them into the back line and they
• 34:48
  would just destroy
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: people because there's a soup.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was a the dumber they are, they can get extra movement.
• 34:57
  And so I would just cross the whole battlefield and like take
• 35:01
  out the the high
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: value enemies really quick.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 35:06
  that bites you in the butt when it's the boss and they have
• 35:09
  like 200 health and
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: that poor cat dies.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think those are two of my favorite ones.
• 35:15
  I did also love the tanks for oftentimes they had a lot of CC
• 35:19
  and I just had to
• 35:21
  like learn how to use that because obviously moving it to like
• 35:26
  one square to the
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: left,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: if you're not super planning ahead isn't so great.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:33
  plan ahead and like you had mentioned earlier with the
• 35:36
  battlefield control,
• 35:38
  like that's when it feels really good when you set up a trap
• 35:41
  and then that guy will
• 35:42
  just pull or push the enemies into it it feels really good yeah
• 35:47
  i'm looking at the
• 35:48
  classes now we've kind of named the kind of the first five are
• 35:51
  like fighter hunter
• 35:53
  mage tank uh and cleric i did like the thief um thief was kind
• 35:58
  of like i like that
• 36:00
  he um got me a lot of currency and then i would be able to buy
• 36:04
  cool things in the
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: shop
• 36:06
  some of the later classes look fun uh looks like druids are
• 36:10
  great at summoning
• 36:10
  animal friends which sounds fun um and then yeah i see psychic
• 36:18
  butcher tinkerer um
• 36:22
  so that's fun nice but yeah so i guess beating bone yard would
• 36:29
  have gotten us yeah
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: they all come unlocked with beating things yeah
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: I did also,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: when you beat the caves,
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: or I don't know which one this is,
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: but the third level,
• 36:42
  you do unlock new skills for the base classes or whoever you
• 36:45
  succeeded with.
• 36:47
  So there is more to unlock within the classes themselves,
• 36:50
  it appears as well.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also cool.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think this game is very deep.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's all I got.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um...
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got a plate of fried chicken in front of you,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: are you taking a tasty leg or a crispy thigh?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we talked about this last time.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the same as... No, we were talking about wings.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Flats or drums.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Flats or drums.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think a crispy thigh.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, because of the way in the sound it's like crispy thighs.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what stays in my head more.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I'm with you.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the legs,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: if you're frying like thighs and legs at the same time,
• 37:40
  there's a decent chance that the legs are going to be drier
• 37:43
  because they're going
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: to cook faster.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm taking a tasty crispy thigh for sure.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Crispy thigh.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Any other thoughts on Mugenics?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I respect the hell out of it.
• 37:55
  I've been very negative,
• 37:56
  but I could see why people absolutely adore this game.
• 37:59
  And I'm glad that people like Edmund can be uncompromising and
• 38:05
  not corporate and
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: not focus tested to death.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love all those things.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll probably play his next game.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I'll keep an eye on it.
• 38:15
  There's always a world where I could get back into this for a
• 38:17
  different reason.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I haven't checked.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: But man,
• 38:21
  I feel like if this game is able to be modded and you can just
• 38:25
  have a user made
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: like home base,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: like screen to just show all your cats and
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would try it again.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: But until then, that's fair.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Undo mod, that would be a good one.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I'll take all the beratement from the people.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take it, but just make my experience with it a little bit easier.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, I just tricked you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're a filthy casual.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: You revoke a gaming card.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, all right, well, that's it for me.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm cooked.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just kidding.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, cool.
• 39:00
  So next month's game is Neon White,
• 39:04
  maker of Donut County,
• 39:06
  but don't expect Donut County.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really looking forward to it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to it, too.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: You as well.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Much love.