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Janitors of the Galaxy · Movie Meltdown

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, this is Sam Jones, Flash Gordon, and you
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: are listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Picture Association of America.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: It's showtime, folks.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Enjoy the show.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian and
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: I'm coming to you from the Oddity Studios where this
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: week we are going to dive right in to an
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: epic conversation. And you know that's true because this week
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I'm welcoming back Sterling. And like most of our episodes
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: together this past year, once we get going, there's no
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: stopping us. And I'll tell you now, that's actually true,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: because this discussion is so unstoppable, it's going to keep
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: going into next week. But we'll get to that later.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: For now, let's just dive in headfirst, as this geek
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: dialogue is already underway.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the coffee by the way i appreciate it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: It's uh available you could have it shipped to your
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: home from uh heine brothers.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: All work and no play makes jack adult i gotta
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: get this mug um had it for a while yeah
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: well if you're gonna.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Have maybe harder to find if you're.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Gonna have a mug that references the shining this is
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the one you want i thought so um One of
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: my mom's favorite mugs that she had when I was
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: a kid, and that's mysteriously vanished, or maybe she broke it,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: was a mug where it was the original trio from
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the original Star Trek, and they beamed out when the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: mug got hot.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I remember that one.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you remember that one.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Again, I probably sold it to people, but I didn't
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: have that. I did get the... The playset for Next
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Generation that actually made them disappear. It still blows my mind.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I can kind of logically explain it to myself if
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: I want to, but I'm like, they just freaking beamed out.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: It's still really exciting.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Something weird happened to me a while ago, and I'm
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: not sure exactly what it was. I think it was
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a gradual process over a couple of years, but somehow I...
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Even though... I watched the original series and The Next
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Generation as I was growing up. Those were both part
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and parcel. I was getting episodes of both at the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: same time with my allowance money.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I would have $ 20 for allowance of Big Spender. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I would go to what we had on cue, which
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: was later replaced by Sam Goody.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: I believe it was technically the same company. Probably. I
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: only know that because I worked for them. Technically, up
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: the line. They were all part of the Music Land group.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: If we really want to go into this breakdown.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I would say that the core of it is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: it all just boils down to the fact that in
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the end it had my first role-playing game books, my
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: first CDs, and my first tapes. like actual video VHS
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: tapes were all in this one location. And, uh, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: remember I used to go in there with my 20
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: bucks and I had an option. I could buy one
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: episode of the next generation or one episode of the
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: original series.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: And it was always like back and forth. Oh yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And it was always like, I was just sitting there
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: and like, you know, consult my star trek encyclopedia like
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you know consult like do i remember having seen this
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: one i don't think i've seen this one gonna pull
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the trigger no i don't want to pull the trigger
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: like like or i could save up for two weeks
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and buy a role-playing game book like those were my
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: like that was just it was such a hard decision
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to make when you're.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: 11 now i'm now i'm the guy on the other
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: end of the counter they're going kid we're closing let
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: yeah pick one The gate's half down. Come on, man.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: We're going home. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And anyway, but something happened to me a couple of
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: years ago where, for some reason, TOS stuff, like, always
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: appeals to me more, like, on a visual level.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Like, than Next Generation stuff. I'm not saying that there's a, like, qualitative, like,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: one's better than the other. I'm not trying to make
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: that claim. But there's a... I should say there's a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: softness to the Next Generation aesthetic where it's like... I
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: feel like, in a weird way, I couldn't put one
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: next-gen thing in my house without wanting to make my
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: whole house next-gen.
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  Speaker 3: It was such a drastically different look. Everything was rounded.
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Everything was just smooth and sleek and had a cool
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: stripe going down it.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, someone complained, I think, that they took the bridge
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: of the... Oh, it was Matt Jeffries, I believe, the
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: guy who designed the original sets. Right, and for which,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of course, the Jeffries tubes are named, which is what
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: they crawl around in all the time.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Every episode.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Every episode they have to chase someone through the Jefferies tube.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: At a time in space when it seems like they
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: won't be crawling around fixing shit, but they do.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Hey man, listen, as an AV guy, I'm going to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: tell you, you're always going to need a catwalk.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: You're always fixing some shit.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: What's baffling to me is that like, that's like metal
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: grade and they're like grown men in their thirties, like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: crawling around on their hands and knees.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Have fun guys.
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: These guys have got to have like knee pads built
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: in their uniform. There's no way you're crawling around the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Jefferies tube. That's got to hurt. But anyway, but TOS
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: stuff always just seems flatly iconic. Like you put it up,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: like you put up a poster or hang up a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: shirt or something like that. And it just looks great.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: It just shouts Star Trek. It shouts future and like
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: 60s nostalgia and all that stuff.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: But I think what draws me to it is that
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: it's bold.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Like you said, it's not. Like TNG is rounded and
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: it all blends well together. Oh, Jeffrey said that they
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: took the bridge of his starship and they turned it
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: into the lounge at the Marriott or something like that.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: And that's just it.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: It's like TNG.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: The old one was just clunky as hell. And that
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: was its selling point. It was just like, hell yeah,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: look at this. I got knobs and I'm flying through space.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Who cares?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And I love the fact that everything is bright primary colors.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: There's a boldness with color design and minimal design that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: they have in that show.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Next generation became pastel. Right, right, right. And there was a.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Like, when you go into the engineering areas and stuff,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: you know, they have, like, it's white walls, and every
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: tube is, like, a different color. And, you know, because, like, hey,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: we have all these different tubes. We might as well
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: make them all different colors. I used to think, like,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, oh, that's so old-fashioned. Like,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: as I got older, I was more sympathetic towards it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Now I look up pictures of what the Google Towers
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: look like. That is exactly what they look like on
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the inside. And I'm like, somebody was watching the original series.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Or we're living in Star Trek.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's all, we can only hope my friend live
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: long and prosper.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Beam me out of here is what I'm saying. Anyway,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: we do live in the bureaucracy of Star Trek. Oh God.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: That's the tragedy is you think like, you know, you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: would like to believe that, that, that, um, that what
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: is it that, uh, in Star Trek, even in a
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: future without money, we wouldn't have to wait at the DMV.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: But.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Like somehow we could get away.
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: In our.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. In that version, somehow there's still some sort
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: of rigmarole that goes on.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there is. There's got to be.
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: I mean, I.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: That's something I fear for... I mean, you know, for
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the communist Star Trek future that we're facing of no
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: money and everyone's happy all the time. Just absurdity.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, is that.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Well, how... I mean, I will not, I refuse to
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: get into like debates over economics and Star Trek. I'm like,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that's not a thing.
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: That's not what Gene Roddenberry is trying to get at.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not going to try to prove to
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you why the future is not going to have money
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: or why will, because as soon as we start down
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: that path, we're already lonely and about to, we're already
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: destined to die alone. Right?
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Like that's the, I mean, it's a given for me.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Some of you guys out there, maybe there's hope.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Keep, keep on dreaming. Keep believing in that bright future.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: But with that said, like, like, I never debate that stuff.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Because like I said, I always feel like it's beside
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the point. It's like, I'm not here to try to
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: figure out like, how like okay if no one works
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: for money who's like putting the rivets in the deck
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: like for self-fulfillment you know in the 24th century like that's.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: Changing the future man one rivet at a time.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Although i wouldn't lie if you invited me to a
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: to a couple of month program to help build a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: starship yeah it's no experience is required i'm on.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: Board just invite people to a riveting party Come on over.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: We're going to have some coffee cake, and you can
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: put a ship together. It's cool. And at the end
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: of the day, you get pizza. You know, we don't
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: have any money for you, but. there's a nice Jeffrey
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: tube you can sleep in afterwards if you're cool with that.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: There was a thought experiment a friend of mine played
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: one time where he said, Okay, Sterling, I want you
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to imagine they say to you, They're starships. They're real.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: You can travel to other planets. You can experience all
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: kinds of unbelievable things. Meet alien races. See wonders of
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the galaxy, etc., etc. Are you on board? And then
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: they offer you a red shirt. If you don't take
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: that deal, you're a freaking idiot.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised you got that sentence out before you were killed. Yes, I'll...
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Somehow a comet just smashes into you mid-sentence.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: You heard that they're working on a new.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: One of.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: The Star Trek shows that they're working on is going
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to be called Lower Decks. And it's going to be about...
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: It's going to be apparently an animated series about not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the captain and the upper echelon crew. It's all going
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: to be ensigns and stuff. I'm really hoping that they
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: will have two characters... One will be the red shirt
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: who's perpetually avoiding and afraid of being beamed down and dying. And, like,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that forms, like, a nucleus of his whole character. Like
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Guy from Galaxy Quest. And the other is, I would
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: like to imagine that whoever the fourth or fifth friend is,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: is always just another random red shirt because the other
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: one died.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: He's the Kenny of this group. Yeah, he's the Kenny.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: You killed Steven! You bastards! And then next week it's, no, Gabriel! Like, yeah, like, no, Rocky!
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Or what was his name again?
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: What was that? I don't know. Whatever. Random red shirt, 473.
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: Whatever.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: But of all the ideas that I've heard for the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: new Star Trek shows, that's actually the one that sounds
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the most promising.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: And then I have the most faith they'll be able
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: to pull off. Now, if I can get this to
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: happen and then get some sort of residuals out of
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: the idea, I want... What the hell is... Again, I
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: will mess up his name. Taika Waititi.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: What we do in shadows. Another on the list of essential...
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Essential films to show the girlfriend. I've actually been keeping
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: a list. It's important.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Taika Waititi.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Taika Waititi.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: I constantly butcher his name. I'm sorry, Taika. Yeah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I do not, by the way, assume that I'm saying
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that name correctly. I assume not. That movie is a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: work of genius, though, and I'm looking forward to it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. If you give it to somebody
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: like him who gets the everydayness of it and devote
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: an entire group of random lower-deck Star Trek people... We
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: never see a captain in the show, ever. We just
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: hear a voiceover once in a while. We gotta, ah,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: damn it, come on, now we gotta go over here
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: and do this.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I imagine when the airline pilot accidentally leaves the intercom on.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: It's like, all right, it's going to be you, doctor, me, and... Shit,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: what red shirt is up in the rotation?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Get Kenny up here right now. We got to beam down. Wait, what? My.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I could really use a cup of coffee
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and a blowjob.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Where's that yeoman? Oh, shit. My mic's still on. God
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: damn it. I left this on. Anyway. Yeah. But I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: feel like that's the kind of guy you need to
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: hand that to.
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: It's like, let it... I mean, we've seen... A lot
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: of cut and dry, especially like this. We're starting to
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: get like we're certainly seeing these new avenues in like
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the Star Wars universe, but we're still on the pretty
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: straight and narrow on the Star Trek world. If they
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: let them branch out and start doing like almost different
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: genres still in the Star Trek universe, like. That's kind
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: of a cool idea.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Oh no, that's the best thing that can happen for
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Star Trek right now. And, and I'm saying this like, okay,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: so my real quick, like when I did my Star
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Trek show the last time, uh, my, the last, the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: last time.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Uh, hopefully it will come back. Uh, But two of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the running jokes is you've got a team of red shirts. Well, one,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we would always draw red shirts from the audience to die.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: And the other is that you had a team of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: red shirts that would always run off stage the second
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: someone said, away mission. They just bolt. Because that's how
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: you stay alive is you just make sure you were
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: nowhere to be found when someone needs a red shirt. Um, but, uh,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the other running joke was that Captain Kirk was always
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: like trying to do a log, but accidentally instead whacking
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: some other button on his console. Because who knows what
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: all those different fricking buttons do on the console. Like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: He certainly doesn't know. Yeah, no, he's just punching them
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: and starting talking, you know?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: And then, and the next thing you know, he's like
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: giving intimate details about his, his, his bath life, you know, uh,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: over the intercom.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Sir, we can all hear you, you know? Damn it. Yeah.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: But no, and so, yeah, but that kind of humor,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of sense of lightness in the canon, I think,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: is something that's very valuable. I think that one of
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the sad things, I think, about what's going on right
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: now with the– I almost want to call it Kurtzman
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Trek or something like that because Alex Kurtzman has been
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: put on the head of it. And I don't want
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: to– I don't want to spend wasting time bashing the
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: guy or anything like that.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: We can do that.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: But anyway, uh, the, yeah, right. We don't do that
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: sort of thing on this show, but I think.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: That, that one of the things that's hampered discovery, one
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: of the things, I mean, many things I think have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: hampered that show, but one of the things that, uh,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I think is unfortunate is that discovery and the upcoming
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Picard show, uh, are both essentially based around old ideas. And,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and you know, I'm holding out hope that, that there
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: will be, uh, that there will be something interesting in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Picard because, you know, Patrick Stewart is of course a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: great actor. I'm not, I'm not going to try to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: shoot that horse before it's left the stall, but I
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: think that, uh, the whole, essentially we're, we're hoping that
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: what's going to draw us to that story is our
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: already existing attachment to Picard. Discovery was a prequel story
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that tried to tie itself into Spock's complicated backstory, which again,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I think was just a poor move. Like, To my mind,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: what all of these things speak to on the producer level,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: not on the individual. Because again, Patrick Stewart is a
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: great actor and people are working hard on Discovery. I
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: guarantee it. I don't believe for a second.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: One that we know dearly.
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: No shortcomings have anything to do with Doug. But anyway,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: continue on. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Doug's great and he's been pretty phenomenal. And even though
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I've got, again, problems with all the storylines that he's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: been in.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you're not the only trek related person to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: have issues with something trek related yeah i.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Was gonna say what a trekkie has problems with the
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: star trek franchise but uh but um i think that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: yeah no that's that's i think it's pretty pretty conservative
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: complaint to make is that is that they don't seem
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to trust on the production level their own stories they
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: don't seem to say you know what we can take
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: some characters that are completely unrelated to any other characters
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: we've ever heard about maybe in a tangential way like
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Janeway's nephew or something like that, you know, like, like,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: like nobody, but nobody seems they're, they're trying to, they're
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: approaching it the way you would approach smartly approach a property, right?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: You've got an established brand, you know, Spock's part of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: that brand. If you're going to try to splice the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: brand and grow something new, well, you just splice Spock
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and you grow something new. And that's our character.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Is it not the same complaint? I and most people
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: in the world have been making about the Star Wars universe.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's the same thing. It's like, I keep saying,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: just go tell a different story. Like leave, get away
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: from the Skywalker family.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: Absolutely.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Let's not do more haunts. I mean, not, I didn't
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: even have problems with that Han Solo movie, but I'm
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: just like, is the han solo movie needed different than
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: the picard show it's like we gotta latch.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: On to a character people know the tragedy about the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: han solo movie is that it was an origin story
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: for han solo yeah who did who is one of
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the characters and said yeah it never needed an origin
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: we know everything we needed to know about that guy
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: from the way he leans at a.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Bar right and yet they bothered to thread every needle
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: that could possibly be As long as we see how
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: he gets to the ship, and we need to see
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: him get his blaster, and we need to see, like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: it was just the checklist. Somebody said at some point,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: what about the vest? Where did he get the vest?
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: How did he get here without his vest on?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: You know, there was a couple of books in the
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: now defunct Star Wars Legends world.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: Legends.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: It still exists. It's just a legend.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to cite this, by the way, before we
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: dive deeper into Star Wars. I will say that my...
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: So my running philosophy now with regards to Star Trek,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Star Wars canon, such as it is, is, you know,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I think we're at a point now where we just
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: have to say in the interest of world peace, like, like,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: and I'm not, this is not me just hating on
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: The Last Jedi, although I could. But there are other
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: podcasts that go at greater length and talk in greater
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: depth about the problems with those movies. And, you know,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you talked about it a lot on your show.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Even worse than... I don't think we've ever gone really
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: hardcore the way I've heard other people do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you, as a guy who spent
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a long time after that movie... Like, I spent time
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: after that movie the way The Lost Generation did after
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: World War I, wondering what went wrong.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Waiting for the next Great War?
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And I remember my nephew saying to me when I
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: asked him who his favorite Star Wars character is, he says, well,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it used to be Luke, but not anymore. A piece
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of my heart broke off and died. But in seriousness, though,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the way I approach those films now is I simply say, look,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the original trilogy is canon and everything else is somebody's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: fan fiction.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Including the prequels?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Because I'm like, that's still him.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Well, it's George Lucas' fan fiction about his own movie.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Granted, I mean, it is a very different group of movies.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: But those three are their own solid little arc. I
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: don't like a lot of what's going on in them.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: But I just try to acknowledge it for what it
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: is at this point.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Well, and honestly, the new Disney fan fiction, the new
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Disney films have, for me, actually rehabilitated the prequel. a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: bit which is surprising to my 15 year old self
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sure But what I've realized now is I see
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: what Lucas was up to versus what they, in my view,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: have kind of failed to achieve in this one. Like
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: his world building, his vision, his imagination. I see all
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that very much on display in those films. And I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: think most of us in the fan community have come
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: to the position of saying, you know, the prequels, I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: see what they were going for.
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: They didn't successfully tell that story, but I see the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: story they were trying to tell.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: And you know what?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: It wasn't all bad and it wasn't all, you know,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the Antichrist or anything like that.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I've heard it now referred to as like, it's just
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: there as like. reference points for geeks it's just like
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: you don't want to sit down and re-watch them on
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: a regular basis but you can be like yeah remember
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: in the third movie when he did this and that
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: led to this now so that's why we have this
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: now and like so it's just references for the universe
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: that then can tie to future things.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah i guess i mean i mean for me
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: for me again it all comes down to this idea
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: of canon versus fan fiction just saying for me there
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: are certain things especially in the legends universe because i
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: grew up reading some of those books and And for me,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a few of those, like the X-Wing books and the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Tales of the Jedi comic books and the Tales from
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Mos Eisley Cantina and the Bounty Hunters and stuff like that,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that stuff to me is always just stuff that is real, right?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: It's true within the Star Wars universe. I don't think
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: that anyone's ever going to convince me, no, that's not
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: It was this thing instead. And that's fine.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: To my mind, I'm not trying to advocate for a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: position of just stubborn, like refuse to change. But you
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: know what? Different things are going to hit different people.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Some people are going to see the story of Rey,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and they're going to be inspired by it. And you
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: know what?
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Good for them.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: That's great. I'm glad they have their Star Wars that's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: really working out.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I watch that now. I mean, that is kind of
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: my favorite thing that's happened in this new run of
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: movies is, I watched my niece see Rey for the
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: first time.
• 21:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And I watched her mind be blown in a way
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: that I think mine did that exact same thing when
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: I saw Star Wars, which is episode four. But like
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I was sitting next to her and I'm like, oh
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: my God, this is changing her life.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Right now.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: She doesn't even realize it exactly.
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, I don't want to take that
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: away from people. I don't want to say, no, you
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have had your life changed by that. You should
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: have had your life changed by this. I do not
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: want to be that way. And more than that, I
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: think we have to have a broader vision of things.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So to my mind, for Star Wars, I just see
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: there are certain things that are That are canon. And
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: for me, that's the original trilogy. Everyone agrees the original
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: trilogy is great.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: There's not much fight in that.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not really any fight. I mean, sure enough,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: every now and again a nerd gets drunk and starts
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: talking about Ewoks.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: It slumps off a little at the end there. But
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: I still think there's a lot of great stuff going
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: on in Jedi.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Well, and nobody is ever going to take away that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: final lightsaber duel. No one is ever going to take
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: away that final Death Star battle.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. All they really have is Ewoks.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Because the more I thought about it, I'm like, yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: there's a few other weak points. Mostly like... Harrison Ford
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: not wanting to be there. And you can kind of
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: tell sometimes. But other than that, it's like, I love
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: the intro. I love the whole Jabba Palace scene. I
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: love the Skiff attack battle. That's awesome.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: That first bit where they're just saving Han is like
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: one of the best TV show episodes you've ever seen.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: It's so much fun.
• 23:08
  Speaker 8: It is.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: And it's so like, it hadn't been that long now
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: compared to the amount of time Star Wars has existed before.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: But it felt like it had been so long since
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: the gang had been together. Well, and it makes you wish.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: It makes you wish.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: This is a little something I realized when I was
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: watching Last Jedi last time. It makes you wish that
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: instead of a third film, you had actually had a
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: series of TV shows. And Lucas had talked about that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: He had talked about doing something like that. Here's the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: episode where we rescue Han. Here's the episode where we
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: go to the Ewok planet and make friends and beat
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: up some Imperials. Here's the episode where Luke faces Darth
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Vader again. In other words, that very throwaway, almost throwaway
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: sense that a lot of that great Star Wars storytelling has.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: It's that lightness that comes with it along with the drama, right?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: And that's actually, this is what I was getting to
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: with these, so there were these Three books. I think
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: the Han Solo Chronicles or something. The Legends series. The
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: second wave of Han Solo. Not the really old, like.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: No, no. It was the... Well, I don't know. The
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: ones that came out right after Star Wars, I think.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: That were three Han Solo stories. Yeah, yeah. And then
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I think in the 90s they did another trilogy of
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Han Solo.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the 90s I think is the one I'm
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: talking about. I'm talking about the Samaritan's Snare. Or not
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Samaritan's Snare. That's an episode of The Next Generation. Season two,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: to be specific.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Worlds and universes are colliding. Yeah, right.
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: Oh, no.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: But, no, I think it was the Paradise Snare and
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Assault at Corellia. Yeah, I think those are the second wave. Yeah, yeah,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that's the second wave.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: I can never pull the first wave, but if someone
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: says them, I'm like, oh, yeah, those.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the first wave is like where it goes to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a disco.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Which is pretty great, yeah. It's really all we
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: wanted in the late 70s, 80 era to see Han
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Solo on a disco.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: But anyway, like, those books, one of the great things
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: about those books is they never spend any time, like,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: talking really about, like, Han Solo's, like, past or Chewie's, like,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: relationship with him or where that comes from.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: It's just, you know who Han Solo is? You know
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: who Chewie is? Well, here's them in an adventure. Yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: they got adventures. They don't have time to sit around
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: and talk about the past.
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: Exactly.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Like, I gotta go beat up this bounty hunter over here.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: That's what I really regret about the new Han Solo movie. Like,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the things about it that were good and that worked,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: worked precisely in inverse.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: A lot of them kind of did. The movie was
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: all right. That's the thing. I'm like, if you got
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: away from the fact that so much of the structure
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: is the problem, but within the moments, I'm like, it's fun.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Everything about what's going on is fun.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Hey, look, I want to see Han raid the mines
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of Kessel. I want to see Han try to escape
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: from a space monster. I want to see Han... But
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the weird thing about that movie is it felt this
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: need to explain so much and yet explain so little.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: We take a three-year jump. We don't actually explain why
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: he becomes a great pilot, aside from the fact that
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: he won. Or why he wanted to be a great pilot.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: That wasn't really Han's thing. He was a smuggler, right?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And anyway, we can go on and on about that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I would just say that, yeah, the movie tied its
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: own shoes together, so to speak, and just tripped over itself.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: It's like they wanted to have a story that was
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: a backstory, but they didn't seem to know what backstory meant.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Again, it was just tying the threads together that we'd
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: thrown out there from the original trilogy.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And we didn't even care about those either.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: And we weren't worried about it. We were like, Kessel Run,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: sounds cool. Good enough. Let's go. Sure, yeah. The ship's
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: a badass. We get it. All right, let's go. Cool, yeah.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Let's specifically see.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, although I do want to give a shout out
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to Donald Glover. Because his... I mean, I think pretty
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: much everyone agrees that his Lando just nails it, right?
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And Donald Glover was perfect for that role.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: It's great casting, really.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: It really is. And I hear his show Atlanta is
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I need to catch up on it because that's
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a talent.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: To really watch.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: You know, him.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And Childish Gambino and that entire– like everything that he's
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a part of.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Everything he does. It's kind of frustrating how talented he is.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: It's really annoying. Yeah, I don't know.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I've met– the funny thing is he's like the fourth
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: or fifth guy. I mean I don't know him personally
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: but I've known of from Stone Mountain, Georgia. And, like,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the other couple of people are, like, geniuses.
• 27:18
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And, like, the other couple of people are just, like,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: really fascinating people in their own right. Something's happening in
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that town. I just have to say.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Something in the water.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, something in the water. In Stone Mountain.
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so broke, man.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Scholarship apology. Facebook messages from college kids who holler at
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: girls like.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: We love you. We go to LSU.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: You got to do a show so we can come
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: and molest you. This rap stuff is magic. I used
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: to get called Oreo and faggot. I used to get
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: more laughs when I got laughed at.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, you got a mixtape. That's fantastic.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: But everybody thought it was jokes, though.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: They have right. The joke is I got blow. So
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: don't act like you ain't sitting there with your friends
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: like it can't be.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I know Donald Glover.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: He weep, man.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: He can't be.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I'm still not down. But I up the ante. Me
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and hip hop. That black city now.
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: Refresh yourself.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: It's intermission time.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: The concession stand is open and ready to serve you.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: In the mood for hot coffee? When you are, nothing
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: else will satisfy.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: You'll enjoy the show more while you're enjoying steaming hot coffee.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Come and get yours now. Sounds like a plan. I
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: need more coffee. You need more coffee? Why? Where would
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: you go to get more coffee? Why?
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Heine Brothers?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Do you need more coffee?
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: I do!
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Where would I get some? Perhaps from our house that has.
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: Heine Brothers.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: You probably got it like in a bag.
• 28:52
  Speaker 8: I did.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Directly from Heine Brothers. What's all of you should do?
• 28:57
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• 29:00
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• 29:32
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• 29:44
  Speaker 6: Coffee has a flavor, an aroma, a deep-down satisfying goodness
• 29:48
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• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And our coffee has something extra, the care with which
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: we brew and serve it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: All his life, he only cared about one thing, himself.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: But now, the best hotshot pilot in the galaxy was
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: playing babysitter to an old man, a green kid, two robots,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: and a princess.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Han Solo really had his hands full.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Han Solo is back.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Star Wars is back.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Star Wars.
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: Rated PG.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Parental guidance suggested.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: I'll take every cent you've made.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: So, you guys know we're broke, right?
• 30:42
  Speaker 10: We're always broke.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: I know. And yet we're trying to put this show together.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Now how the hell can we keep the show rolling
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: if we're broke and we.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Can't do this?
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Sell special fiddle fowl.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Or instead, murder people. Are you just taking random money
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: out of their pockets?
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: Well, yeah.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Hopefully it
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: won't come to that. Especially if they're peeping. Some people
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: will get on board with this.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: Get on board with what?
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: The new Movie Meltdown Patreon page. And what is this?
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: If you go there, you can sponsor the show itself. Basically,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: you just join the club. You join the Meltdown Club.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: You become a milketeer.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: Do you get a special decoder ring?
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: We already sent those out, but those people, nobody cares.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: I didn't get a decoder ring.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: You're not part of the club. I'm never part of
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: the club. You're part of the secret circle, though.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: It's okay.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But if you become a milketeer, you can get special
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: episodes that only come to you.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: I think you should do it right now.
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: Right now?
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying. It's maybe a couple of bucks. There's
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: other levels you can kick in and get fancier. Maybe
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: a couple bucks. You don't know. Fancier stuff. But really,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: just a couple of bucks will keep things rolling. What'll
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: get me a pony? That's a really high level. I'll
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: have to figure out exactly what.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: That's platinum membership right there.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: That might be above platinum.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: We'll have to see.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: What is above platinum?
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Titanium. Titanium.
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: Really?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's a step below.
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: We'll have to see.
• 32:15
  Speaker 10: Aluminium level.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: That's way below. Not if you say it fancy.
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Unobtainium.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Good luck with that. But for the rest of you,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: go kick in a couple bucks. Keep the show rolling.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Go to patreon.com slash movie meltdown. And if you don't
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: know how to type all that in, go to the
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: movie meltdown.com page. And the link's right there. And you
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: can save this show. And help me get a pony.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Damn them, man. Save the meltdown.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: Get Misty a pony.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, priorities.
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: Hey, this is Doug Jones from the Hellboy movies and
• 33:02
  Speaker 8: the Silver Surfer and Pan's Labyrinth and Hocus Pocus, Falling
• 33:05
  Speaker 8: Skies and so much more. But today you are listening
• 33:09
  Speaker 8: to Movie Meltdown.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: It's part of your problem, you know, you haven't seen
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: enough movies.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: All of life's riddles are answered in the movies. And now,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: on with the show.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: And if you're feeling how I'm feeling, now the world
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: should be perfectly fine like.
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: A third degree.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And suddenly, Johnny, we got so high.
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: Now when you see the first three times, all.
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: They're gonna do is say, it's enough like, okay.
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: It's enough like, okay.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But, in any event, this whole question of canon, I've
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: really gotten over the canon wars thing. I don't want
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: to waste any time trying to make sense of how
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the fact that apparently no one in The Last Jedi
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: cared about C-3PO's arm being red... Or how C-3PO's arm
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: got to be red. Or any of that stuff.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Not because... Yeah. I kind of like the fact that
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: we don't like... Even within the context of that first
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: time we see him, he's trying to be... He's like,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: you probably don't know my arm. And it's killing him
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: to be like, let me tell you the story. And
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: people are like, shut up, 3PO. Nobody cares. And then
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: we never learn because nobody gives a shit about whatever
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: 3PO' s talking about.
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: No, no, no.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And that's fair.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I kind of love that, actually.
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: I guess.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: It will demonstrate that he also has not a clue
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: about what stories are or how human beings tell them.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: But what he does understand very well is marketing. That's
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: something he's always understood. He can spin a lot of
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: plates at once.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: And he's very, very good at that. And Lost is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: actually a great example of that. It builds and weaves
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: this magnificent mystery that it fails to solve. Ultimately because,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that like judgmentally. It's like, okay,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: it doesn't achieve what, we were set up to look
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: forward to it achieving, right? Because what it essentially did
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: was it spun a lot of fascinating questions off of
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a central mystery and it kept spinning and spinning and spinning.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: And eventually the cloud of questions started to look like
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: it was circling an answer, but no one apparently actually
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: sat down to figure out what that answer was beforehand. Well, similarly,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: his style of writing is almost always, you know, throw
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: a bunch of mysteries at the wall and, And I
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: swear to God, and this is not me being critical.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I think that this is just a producer writing a show.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: A smart producer writes a show.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: What does he do?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: He throws a million mysteries at the wall. Then he
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: watches the forums or hires somebody to watch the forums
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: for about eight months to see what everyone is really like. Oh,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: what does this mean? What is this? Maybe Rey's dad
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: was Obi-Wan. And then you know what's going to happen?
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: And the next movie is going to be like, well,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Rey's dad was Obi-Wan. I guess we're going with this one.
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: Yep.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: And then to his credit and to the credit of
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: the producers, I think they threw that out or they
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: allowed Last Jedi's director who directed Looper.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Rian Johnson.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Rian Johnson.
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Who I thought Looper was brilliant. And he did another
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: film I thought was really great as well. I couldn't
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: remember what it was.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: The first one, Brick, I think is amazing. Brick is astonishing.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Especially since he had no money.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: No, no.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Like he spent years. So the fact that you can't
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: even tell that it literally was like on weekends over
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: years before he got all of that shot. And then
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: it's– that's why I'm like it's so brilliant anyway.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: It's one of the best neo-noir films. It's one of
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the– there is so much that I adore about that movie.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: And the writing is just genius.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: And frankly, yeah, it really is. And it's a great
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: example of how you can do an homage and something
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: completely original at the same time.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: At the same time.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And Looper is a great example of how just to
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: take a high concept premise– And develop it... I think
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: it came out the same year as Prometheus, I think.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: It was something like that.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I just remember... For some reason, those came up in
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: my mind against each other a lot. Because Prometheus did
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: not have great execution in a lot of areas.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: In a lot of areas.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to vanish down the Prometheus rabbit hole
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: just yet. But I'll say that Looper, though, is a
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: triumph of execution. And so it astonished me when I
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: saw The Last Jedi... because for me that's a bad
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: film it's just an objectively bad film.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: It's just got so many weird decisions that's what i
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: that's what i came to after a while the more
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: and more i thought about it i'm just like why
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: that why that like again which i don't sit around
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: asking those questions on so many other movies so it's
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: weird that that one raises all the because there are
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: moments i really like and i think are well executed
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: moments And then the next scene will come and I'll
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: be like, wait, what the hell is that?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: It's a beautifully shot film. And actually, if you were
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to break it down into a comic book in your head,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: you can see how all the scenes are structured and
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: what they look like and things like that. You can
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: tell the dramatic images he's going for and things like that.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And some of those are really compelling. But, you know,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the truth is that I watched that movie a second
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: time right after it came out. I went with... Like,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I went and saw it when it first
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: came out, right, with my girlfriend at the time. And
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: then I went and saw it a couple weeks later
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: with my family because, you know, what better way to
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: see a Star Wars movie, right? Because Star Wars movies
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: have become a family affair.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: What better way to argue with your family than to
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: go see The Last Jedi?
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Hey, man, it's a great way to start the Christmas debate.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: But it's good to know that when everyone's, you know,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: crying into their pudding, it's really about Star Wars and
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: not about your traumatized childhood.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: You really have figgy pudding? Is that what you're saying?
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying yet. I'm declaring it. But no. So anyway,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: but I went and watched it. And I got to
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: tell you, okay, there's one other movie that I've had
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: this sensation in. And it was the sensation as I'm
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: watching the film. And I'm like, it's not that bad.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: This is okay. This is fine.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: This is not really.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that makes sense. And the only other movie
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: where I've actually sat through the entire movie with that
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: frame of mind was Green Lantern.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: Which I still haven't gotten to.
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: To.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: No, I seriously... That was a movie.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: I saw the trailer and went, what? That was a movie...
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Seems a little off.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I was in genuine denial while I was watching that
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: movie of how bad it was. Because I just couldn't...
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I think part of me just couldn't really process it
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: at the time. I was just like, this is... I
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: was trying to be as forgiving as possible and I
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: was just like, you know, this isn't that... This isn't
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: that bad.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Within the same universe, I feel like that was my...
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: And then the more I listen to other people's stories,
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like, collectively, everyone's response to The Phantom Menace. Because
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: the hype was so huge on that trailer. And the
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: trailer still looked great. You watch it now and you're like, wow,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: that's going to be... Oh, no, it wasn't. But just
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: sitting there waiting for... It had been damn near 20 years.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: And now you're sitting here and you're like, I love
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Star Wars. I love Star... This is kind of... No, no,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I love Star Wars. I love Star Wars. I like Saber.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: I see a lightsaber.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I'll say this for the Phantom Menace. Phantom Menace is,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: in its weird way, the strongest of the prequels. It's
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: probably the most true to Lucas at that time. Because
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like the other two are watered down by
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the internet. Well, let me be clear as to what
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I mean by the strongest. The third one is crammed
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: tight with all kinds of stuff and it doesn't quite
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: follow up on a lot of its threads. It doesn't
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: really develop The things it needs to develop. And moreover,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: it hinges, unfortunately, on performances that don't deliver what they
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: need to deliver to be convincing. Like, no one in
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: their right mind... really believes the entirety of Anakin's conversion
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: to the dark side because... And frankly, that's just... I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: don't blame the actor because I'm kind of past that.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: I know. Everybody lumps on him.
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: No, no, no.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I feel like he did what he could with a
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: director who didn't care about actors.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Listen, I very rarely these days blame actors anymore because... Well,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, part of it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Now, when I look at it, I say, you know,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: that was the director or the casting director's fault because
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: this actor, if this actor is doing whatever they can
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: with the material, I'm going to go ahead and trust that. Now,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: sometimes I see an actor. I don't believe that's true.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I think I can use my theatrical third eye to
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: tell like, listen, this guy's not, this guy's not actually
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: taking the material seriously or whatever, but. Honestly, what I
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: see now is I think the director really shouldn't have
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: put them in that position. The director really shouldn't have.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: I think he holds up pretty well by the time
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: we go evil. I think nobody was buying him in
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: that middle step when you're just like, what are you?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: But that's the critical place.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: It is. But by the time we see... That's the thing.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Once he's dressed in black and he's turned pretty much,
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I'm buying that performance now. Caden delivers, I think, in
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: the creepiness, in the darkness that needs to be there.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: It's not there in the middle step, and that's the
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: critical part to that turn.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: There's a lot about.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: But I don't dislike his final place that... I think
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: there's still problems with the story, but I think his performance,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: once he gets to that dark side part, is not bad.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of the Christensen performance that I think... Again,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: there's a lot there that... Darth Vader, it's weird to say,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: but Darth Vader was kind of underwritten. And that's kind
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: of the trick with him.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: In which... In the original trilogy or the prequels?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: In the prequels. Because in the prequels, they simply don't
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: make the internal conflict within him real to us as
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: the audience.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: It should be.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: It really simultaneously... It's like it's... foreshadowed too heavily and
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: then we skip over all the in-between stuff yeah stuff
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: that we kind of wanted to actually if you want
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: if you want to see the best version of what
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: this could have been go watch x-men first class michael
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: fassbender's performance is magneto you see him the way he
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: talks to charles xavier you see the glimmers of hey
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: maybe i don't have to be a son of a
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: bitch and maybe i could be happy maybe i could
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: have friends maybe this could all be a thing No, no,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: it really can't. And in the end, we have to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: be enemies too, because I've got goals that supersede yours.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: And then following that, when he cripples Charles, you know,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: there's the phrase where he says, where he has that
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: moment of like, this isn't my fault. This is your fault.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: And he turns on the nearest normie. And starts force
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: choking her. I mean, he's using like her metal necklace.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: But he's force choking. And that's the transformation into Darth
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Vader we've all been waiting for. It's like, no.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: He's a dude who's trying to be a hero.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Ultimately has almost zero faith in anybody else. And in
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, when he makes a mistake,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: he winds up lashing out in that anger against everyone
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: around him except himself. And it's like, oh, wow. That's
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: a Darth Vader right there. That's a Darth Vader I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: can believe in.
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: But.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: What I was going to about the– rewind a little bit.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that Phantom Menace, the reason
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I say it was the strongest of them is that,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like I said, the third one packs too much in
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: and it relies too much on performances and twists that
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: don't really deliver. We don't actually see the psychological shifts.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: That we need to, but it hinges on those.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: The second one has some– actually, I'm more– I'm more
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: friendly to the second one than I used to be.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: I am than most people, I've realized. People hate that
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: second one. I'm like, there's a lot in that second
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: half of the second one that's just big, dumb fun. Listen, listen.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: It's just pulp novel.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: No, the scene where Padme confesses her love to Anakin
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: and then they kiss as they're wheeled into the... The
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: arena where they're about to fight three monsters.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: It's just John Carter. And I'm like, that's awesome.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're like, dude, that is the most Star
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Wars thing in the entire prequel.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, oh, oh, and the line.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, I actually love it where Obi-Wan's like, what are
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: you doing here?
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: We came to save you, master. Good job. That's very
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Star Wars. It is. It's phenomenal. Great job. And the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: thing is, I'm thinking now of looking at that, like, again,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: saying how popey those scenes are. And I'm like, I
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: can totally see that whole battle happening. in the Marvel
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: comics right after Star Wars era. Like, I remember them
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: fighting monsters that kind of look like that. Like, it's
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: very comic book-y, which is kind of what we wanted
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: from the old Star Wars. So, to me, that part
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: still feels true to what they wanted to do.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: And Padme grabs a blaster and he, like, rides a
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: giant rhino and they're, like, running around there and they're like,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: stop them, stop them. It's like, man, that's Star Wars
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: right there. That's the stuff.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: That's what I don't understand what people want to bitch
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: about that. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sand, I get it.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: But.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: look at the end of this movie.
• 46:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: There's like 40 guys with lightsabers getting mowed down.
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: And even that, and even, and even all that stuff,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: even the stuff with sand and whatnot, like the scene
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: where he murders the entire group of sand people, like that's,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: that's actually okay. That's pretty compelling stuff.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: That's the part I felt like Lucas pulled away from it.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Like that's the one that didn't get PG 13, but
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: probably should have.
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: Because I'm like, we cut away after like two of
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: them get killed. And I'm just like, no, if we want,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: and again, it's back to that psychological turn. If we
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: want to believe that he's going to be Darth Vader,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: the baddest cool dude in the universe in a few years.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: We need to see him just lay waste to that camp.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: We need to see him be the Darth Vader in
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Rogue One in the middle of Sanpio. But not just that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: We also, in order to tell the story properly, we
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: have to show him weeping about it to Padme afterwards.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Which we do, but I feel like it's unbalanced without
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: watching him do it.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Well, he speaks about it with anger. What we need
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: to see is the sorrow. Because at this point, Anakin,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and here I'm writing the script for him, but at
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: this point, Anakin, and I know it's a bad habit
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of mine, but At this point, Anakin has just committed,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: you know, a kind of genocide.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And what we need to see is him be.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Like, oh my God, what have I done? This is horrible.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Be covered in guilt. And we need to see Padme say,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that's okay. That's not who you are. You don't have
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to be that person. We need to see him try
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: to redeem himself from that. And we need to see
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Palpatine manipulate that. See, there's a whole thread there just
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: in that one action that's completely left alone.
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Right.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: And that's strange in all these movies because there are
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of threads like that, but Again, back to
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: why the first film is the strongest. It's because it
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: tells a complete story. Flash Gordon-esque, if you will. Like
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: two Jedi come to a planet. Chaos ensues. They run around.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: They wind up with some zany new characters, including this
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: kid with magical powers. And they come back and save
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: the day. And the movie itself is just a completely... I.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Think it's tight. That's it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Structure-wise, character-wise, there's nothing in that movie that's really a
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: mystery in terms of what's going on and who's doing what.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: The fact that it's underwhelming, there are lots of reasons
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: why it's underwhelming, but the main reason, I think, is
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: actually because it's so self-contained.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: It doesn't move anything, right? That's exactly what I was
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: going to say. I was like, on the one hand,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: you're right. It is so perfectly self-contained as its own
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: little story.
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: But it's also the reason why I'm like, and it's
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: completely pointless. And yeah. And if you're introducing someone to
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: the universe, you really don't even have to show them
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: that one. And yeah, it's fine.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: It's a popcorn movie.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's, and that's what frustrated us back in
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: the day.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: But, but, um, I think that in a lot of
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: ways gets closer to what Lucas's vision for the films
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: was in the first place. And one of the reasons
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: why I'm with you about rejecting Skywalker centric storylines and
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: being like, look, You know, there's a great, one of my,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this before, but one of my favorite bits
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: of now Legends Star Wars material is the Tales of
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: the Jedi comics. And the first one deals with these
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: three Jedi Knights, you know, they're, well, they're apprentices and
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: their master, like we learn a little bit, like it
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: turns out Jedi Knights, they train with their masters until
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: their master's like, okay, go do this thing. And if
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: you do it right, then you're a knight now. Like literally.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: And so they're sent to a planet to negotiate a
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: peace between these two different groups. They're city dwellers and
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: they're beast riders out in the woods. And they're trying
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: to negotiate peace between the two of them. Well, it
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: turns out the Beast Riders kidnap the princess of the
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: city and they have to chase him in.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: And then they discover that the city is secretly run
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: by the dark side and like all this stuff. And
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: then they wind up leading a war to like, you know,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: conquer the city and defeat the dark side and blah, blah, blah.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: And then they get in over their heads and their
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: master has to come save them.
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: And of course, this story spins out and it has
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: threads that go in different directions because the comic books
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: continue on from there. But right there, there's a Star
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Wars story, right? It's like there's a princess. She gets kidnapped.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: They rescue her. But then they discover, we don't know
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: everything there is to know here. There's layers. It turns
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: out there's some dark side magic at work. It turns
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: out we can get in over our heads. And in
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, there's a great moment. One
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: of these phenomenal moments that I don't care how they
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: brand it or rebrand it. Like for me, this is
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: just Star Wars. They took the idea of like, you know,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: manipulating the weak of mind. And they turn it into
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: this notion of Jedi battle meditations.
• 50:27
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Where a Jedi master can just basically project thoughts right
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: out into crowds and make people better or worse. And
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: so like the Sith or the Darksiders always use it
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: to make you feel depressed and anxious. So you're defeated.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: You're never going to win, et cetera, et cetera. And
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: then Arka, the Jedi master shows up and there's this
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: beautiful speech about how Dawn throws back the night. And
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: as long as there is life, there is hope. And
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: this is the key to victory over all despair in
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: the galaxy. And then the beleaguered rebels manage to defeat
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: their enemies. And the day is won. And he explains
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: to his apprentices later, he says, today wasn't going to
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: be won with strength or with, you know, force of arms.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Like today was going to be won the way I
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: want it. It was through the force. It was through
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: showing people the light that was already present. And you're like, damn.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: That's a Star Wars story, right? That's a Star Wars story. But,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: you know, again, like, I think, and we can't, so
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: long as we're interested in just minutiae or just spinning
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: out more details about like, okay, now we've got, you know,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Ben Skywalker's cousin, Ben Solo's cousin, Albert, who's also becoming
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: a dark Sith Lord and stuff and And, oh, there
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: are all these mystery box connections to all this stuff
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: that we don't know what it means. It's part of
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: why I don't care about– I didn't care about Snoke.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: It's part of why I didn't care about any of
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: that stuff. It's like I don't– none of that matters.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: The question is– It's manipulation almost at this point. Because
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: they know. Yeah. Even the big reveal in Empire didn't
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: feel like it was a manipulation. No. It was just
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: kind of like– keeping even the people making the movie
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: on their toes. Even they didn't know for sure that's
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: the way they were going to go. Whereas these, in
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: these current movies, feel like a very plotted out, from
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: movie to movie, obviously, since I don't feel like they
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: had all these things written out. No, no, they didn't.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: Grant Lucas was also guilty of a lot.
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: Of those things.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Well, and Rian Johnson threw out, apparently, J.J. Abrams had
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: a script, which he threw out completely. And that's why
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of plot threads from the, I mean, if
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: you actually rewatch those two movies together, It's like they're
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: telling two completely different stories that have nothing to do
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: with each other.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: Basically.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And not in a good way. You know, not in
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: like a fun way, but in a like, didn't you
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: watch what happened in the last one?
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, it does make me wonder, especially, I mean,
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: they're bringing J.J. back still, right? That hasn't changed?
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: As far as I'm aware, but I think he's kind of,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons I think he's coming back is
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's cleanup duty, honestly. And they're trying to get, because...
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Since Solo, I mean, bombed is not the correct word.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: People are saying it bombed.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I'm sick of this. It just didn't make the kind
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: of money they expected. It was a Star Wars movie, period.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: And it didn't clean up.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the truth is, Rogue One, Last Jedi, and
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Solo have all had diminishing returns in ways that they
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: didn't expect. Even though Rogue One is the best of
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the lot, as far as I'm... Actually, it's... A friend
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: of mine posted on Facebook when that came out. I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: think I said this maybe in our last podcast that...
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: that uh now now there are four good star wars
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: movies yeah you know or no no he said sandwich
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: right in between those no he said he said uh
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: now i count four good star wars movies uh four
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: star wars movies just period but but you know like
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: uh but regardless of how good it was or wasn't
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: like uh each one of those this star wars thing
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: is not doing the business they thought it would and
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: so they don't know what to do about that because
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: they are still kind of confused They're, I think, in
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: a similar position to DC, actually. What both of those
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: productions say to me when I look at them from
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the outside is these guys were thrown a lot at
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the wall and assumed that so long as they adopt
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: the trappings of what fascinates nerd bloggers and things like that,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: that really everything else kind of won't matter. That they
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: can just sort of plug and play with this property
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: and it's going to turn out a lot of good stuff.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: A lot of money.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Which maybe there was a... I'm trying to think. Maybe
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: there was a time when that was true. Maybe if
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: you just had the right things and you threw them together.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to decide because... I don't know.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I think story was always.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I don't want to.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't want to fall into a cliche
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: of just hammering on about story you know because because
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: i feel.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Like that's true like if you go all the way
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: back to the original superman movie i'm like it's well
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: written like it tells a great story well first and foremost.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I guess i want to make that a little bit
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: more specific and say that the complaint about story is
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: not simply complaining about the script or what they were
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: talking about or anything like that it's that to me
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: neither these movies nor the dc movies betray vision yeah
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: right They talk a lot, for instance, about the things
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: they're proud of. And actually, this is true of Discovery
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: as well, Star Trek Discovery. I honestly didn't like that
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: series very much at all. For me, it's like with
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Enterprise as one of the poorer Star Treks. But one
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: of the reasons is when you listen to those producers
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: and they talk about the things they're so excited about
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: in this story. Well, I mean... I don't want to...
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I don't have any issue and I don't want to
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: rant about, like, diversity is ruining things or something like that.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: But basically what they talk about is how great their
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: casting decisions were. And they talk about how brilliant and
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: novel it is to have certain casting decisions made. And
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: while on the one hand I'm like, yeah, but is
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: that the reason you're excited about this story? Is the
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: reason why you're excited about the Rey story that it's
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: a story about a girl? Or is there something about Rey... Yeah.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: Because yeah they are dragging their feet i think there
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: is something oh sure sure more so than a lot
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: of the other care i think we have kind of
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: dropped the ball on a lot of the everything all
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: the characters and kylo are the two that are solid
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: through these two movies all.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: The characters are essentially we're two movies in and all
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: of them are undercooked.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I mean even finn who i liked so much in
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: the first movie i could care less in that second
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: movie We never know why we're supposed to care about Rose. Like,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: I don't have a problem with the character. We don't
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: really know anything about the character. The actress is fine,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: but I'm just like, we don't have anything to do
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: with her. Well, and think about it this way.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: We know less about what drives and what is informing Rey, Finn, Poe,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: and Kylo now than we did about Luke, Obi-Wan, R2-D2, C-3PO,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Han Solo, and Chewbacca By the time they get into
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: the Falcon.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the entirety of all those characters are
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: built in that one movie.
• 57:16
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Like the first Star Wars. We know everything we need
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: to know. I mean, if that's the only movie they made,
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: we would have been fine because they were all completely
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: fleshed out by the end of that movie.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Whereas Rey, we know she cares about her parents, except not.
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: They're not very good parents so far.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: And also it doesn't mean anything. Like why– like with
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Luke we understand like, oh, he's wondering about his origins
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: and he's wondering about the person he's going to become, right?
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: With Rey, she doesn't have a question about the person
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: she's going to become.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: She's become. She is who she's going to become. She
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: is a strong character on her own. Luke really wasn't.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: Luke is wormy by their own screenwriting.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Luke is looking to become an adult. Rey is.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Rey is self-sufficient completely and kind of a badass already.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: And so the question is, what is she fighting for?
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: What's her quest?
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Et cetera, et cetera.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: And The question with Poe, we don't even know what
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: his deal is except that he's got a chip on
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: his shoulder and is a pilot.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: But what's driving him? What's really engaging him? Well, we
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about that. uh what about finn well
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: initially finn actually i thought had the most promise.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: I think he does in the first movie yeah and
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: then he's gone in the second.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Well to begin with he's a he's an action survivor
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: which i always love he's the guy who's like running
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: one step ahead of the explosions you know running away
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: from the battle and yet somehow saves everyone like that's
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: his kind of type he's a coward that's important but
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: that cowardice is sort of trying to figure out Where
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: do I belong in a bigger universe?
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you don't know why. When you have no cause,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: but you're thrown in the middle of a battle.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: This isn't my fight, so I don't feel like I
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: need to rise up and save anyone because why the
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: hell am I here?
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: And there was some great back and forth between him
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: and Poe, but if you actually look at those characters, well,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: there's actually room there for them to influence each other.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Like Poe is obviously driven by belief in a cause,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Finn doesn't have one, but Finn is obviously hypercritical of
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: situations and judgmental about, like, listen, I'm not going to
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: put myself in a situation where I can get shot.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: And Poe, on the other hand, is, let him shoot
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: at me. You know?
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Like, there's all kinds of room for those characters to
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: play off of each other.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: Definitely.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Especially at that point.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Likewise with Rey. Rey is fully self-sufficient, unafraid of anything. Finn's, like,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: originally was afraid of kind of everything. Watching the two
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: of them play off of each other is... Kind of great.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Again, I think that first movie, those relationships are really building,
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: and then it's completely demolished the next time you see them.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: What's weird, actually, in the first film they make is
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Finn's always grabbing her hand to run away, and they
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: make a big thing of that. Whatever. But the thing
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: that I thought was more interesting was like, okay, well,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Finn's running away. Why isn't she turning to try to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: fight whatever it is?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Like that would be great is like she's constantly like,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: where's the battle?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: And he's like, nope, nope, nope.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: We're getting out of here. And then she's like, nope, nope.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I want to fight it. And he's like, I want
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: to go hide under a rock like, you know, like there.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: In other words, there are all kinds of space in
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: here for these characters to bounce off of each other
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: and to have character dynamics.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: But none of them actually do.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: If you think about it, Kylo Ren, we, to this day,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about why he turned to the dark side.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Like, actually nothing. Yeah, I mean, we get the weird story,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: but even then it doesn't really explain.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Well, first off, Luke writes off the dark side as
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: something that he just kind of already had, which is
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: apparently a thing, right?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: It's not like.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: I have a deep psychological insecurity and it manifests as
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: the dark side. It's like, well, the darkness was already
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: deep in him. Maybe Snoke had gotten to him.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Well, why did he decide to follow Snoke? What, what
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: was going on there? Like what, what was it that
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: he wasn't getting from Luke? And besides, even if he
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: wakes up one night and Luke standing above him about
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: to kill him, like, is that all their relationship is
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: like up till then? Was it just like, Oh, everything's cool.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Or did Luke like, Maybe Kylo was great at school
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: and Luke was, like, ragging on him all the time
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: and treating him like crap. No, seriously. Like, Luke's ragging
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: him all the time and treating him like crap. Or
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: maybe Luke's, like, constantly, like, haranguing him or telling him, listen,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: being a Jedi isn't for you or something like that. Like,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: what is their relationship? We don't have one.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: I did kind of wonder, like... with the growing up part,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like, was he like uncle Luke? Like, was he
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: legitimately around? Was he like, were they family beforehand? Or
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: did he just appear one day and be like, all right,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: you're getting recruited to join my little club.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That's a, that's a great question.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: And so we don't know anything about their relationship and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: we don't know what Kylo Ren wants. And so since
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: we don't know what he wants, Ultimately, all the questions
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: about the dark side, all the questions about everything else
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: or why he has this mysterious connection to Rey. And again,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I want to give the actors credit. They play their
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: roles very well.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, those two in particular.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a reason why everyone watching that movie
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: talked about their relationship as being one of the best things.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: It is by far.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: But again, they're undercooked. And I mean that very specifically
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: in that we have potential. But here we are two
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: movies in and we still don't know what any of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the characters want.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: Which I feel like that's still part of the dynamic.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: It's still like the screenwriting game of like, well, we
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: have to drag it out. We don't want to reveal
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: anything too much.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: I think that honestly too much of the screenwriting has
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: been taken up with the rigmarole of just having them
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: go through action-filled scenarios, arrive in front of characters, pronounce
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: things that sound significant.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: That's always kind of been Star Wars. Well, but no, no.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: But before it was referenced and you moved on and
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: it didn't feel like it was there to sell something until...
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: As the franchise went on, it gets more and more guilty.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I'll put it this way. To talk about that section
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: that everyone loves to hate where Rose and Finn go
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: off on their own. I don't object to this sequence,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: by the way, in principle. If you want to go
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: off on a long tangent... where you do a bunch
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: of stuff and then it turns out it doesn't help
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: the main characters. Hey, that's a great way of telling
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: a story. If you're telling, there's, there's something I say
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: about last Jedi. There is nothing in that movie. They
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: do in principle that I could object to. It's like, okay,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: you want to do this?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 10: Cool.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: All right. You want to kill Snoke? Okay. That's, that's
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: a thing you can do. All of these things can
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: be done well, potentially. Like I want to open that
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: door and say, sure, I can acknowledge that these things
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: can be done well. Uh, but with that voyage with
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Finn and Rose, uh, Well, what's their relationship? Aside from
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: her simply telling him what morally to intuit in any
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: given situation, right? And him occasionally asking her questions about
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: how she feels about situations which apparently relate to her
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: backstory but not to her changing as a character, right? So,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: in other words, it's this long voyage of... Which does
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: almost nothing for any of them, right? It doesn't change
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: their characters. And not only that, it doesn't actually teach
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: us anything new about where they are in the fight
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: or what their purpose is in the conflict.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: It's kind of all of them. Yeah. Everybody's character really
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: kind of gets nothing out of it.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: And that's what I mean about The Sound and the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Fury is that at the end of the day, she gives,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: for instance, that great speech about like, you know, how
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: the town's filled with rich arms merchants. Although how they
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: know that, you know. Well, the only way to get
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: rich in the galaxy is selling weapons. Really? There's no
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: one selling toasters?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: Death sticks? Come on. Somewhere there's a Surgeon General boxing
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: up tons of death sticks and making a fortune off
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: of it. You can always prey on the weakness of people. Absolutely.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: They all need to go home and rethink their lives.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: But no, so... She gives that great speech and she
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: talks about growing up in a place where she was
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: essentially a slave because apparently slavery is back and et cetera,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And then she tells this whole story about
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: her past, but it doesn't actually tell us anything we
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: don't already know about her that actually affects us in
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: some way. And moreover, it doesn't actually fuel any kind
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: of transformation or moving forward. The weird thing about that
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: entire relationship, and this is actually very strange to me,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: like looking at it as a screenwriter. is you've got
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Rose and Finn who are janitors. Like, one was a
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: janitor on a Death Star, and one was a janitor
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: in the Rebellion. You have two janitors who can sit
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: down and talk about, you know what this war is?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: We clean poop.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: A bunch of crap. I'm tired of cleaning up other
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: people's messes.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: That is one of the most perfect setups ever. Everyone's
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: going around having their big epic wars and stuff like that,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: and then you've got these two janitors. We're hanging out
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: talking about what it's like. Oh, what was it like
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: for you in the Empire? I got shot and I
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: cleaned toilets. What was it like for you in the Republic? Well,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: I got shot and I cleaned toilets. That is one
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: of the best starting points for two characters in a
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Star Wars show that I've ever heard of.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: It would almost be really interesting if they stayed at
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: that point for quite a while. Everybody else was like,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: come on, let's go win the battle. I'm like, what's
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: my role in this? I've just been cleaning things up.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: You know what? I'm on a break.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Check back with me later. But they never, ever talk
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: about that. They never, ever touch on that. That is
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: one of the most obvious points of connection between them.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: But instead, they just kind of have a relationship. We
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: just kind of take it for granted. We kind of
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: move forward. But it doesn't change either of them. It
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't actually move anything forward. And in the end, she's
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: making grand pronouncements to him about things. Which don't actually
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: sum up, connect, or drive forward anything else.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Or feel like they were there at that level throughout
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: the rest of whatever version of a relationship. Usually it
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: was just bickering and it wasn't even heated bickering. It
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: wasn't Han and Leia bickering that you're like, oh no,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: it's coming. This was just, they really genuinely seemed to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: get on each other's nerves. wait, you love him.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: What, when did this happen? Uh, yeah, uh, I actually, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I'm betting my money that Finn's gay. Cause if you notice, well,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: and I'm, I'm being pretty serious. Like she goes to
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: kiss him. If you notice, he just kind of pulls
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: back a little.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Uh, but I think he, like the rest of the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: world is just head over heels for some Ray, but that's, that's,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: that's just me.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Well, fair enough. Fair enough. I, I, I assume that, that, that, uh,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: I assume that one of the characters is going to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: come out in the next movie. Uh, And I'm going
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: to guess it's him. But with that said, regardless of
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: what their relationship is or what his orientation is or whatever,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I think that this movie just essentially tells, like I said,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: it tells this whole story. It doesn't really develop anything
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: within the story. But I feel like I want it.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I think I've just lost that thread.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to let it go.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I had something more interesting to say and I'm just,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I'm stalling now. But yeah, I, in general though, like
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I said, my, my, my tack with these whole films
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: is like, I, I really do sincerely hope that people
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: are enjoying them and hope that people are being changed
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: by them. Like your, your niece was like, that's wonderful.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: And, and that's fabulous.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: And my, and my nephew likewise really likes Ray and
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: has like a duplicate of her like.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: Staff and everything.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: And that's cool. I'm glad. I want that. I want
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: people to love new Star Wars. Not just the Star
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Wars that I had, even though that was great. But
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that's why I want better Star Wars. That's why I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: want them to have stories that they aren't going to
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: go back to when they're 18 or whatever and be like, man,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: this movie really isn't working. Although, maybe that won't happen.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Because fingers crossed, maybe, and I'm being sincere here, maybe
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: I'm totally wrong about, we're totally wrong about these movies.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Because I remember a friend of mine who I sincerely
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: appreciate his opinion, thought The Last Jedi is one of,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: if not the best Star Wars film ever made.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: I've heard, I mean, there's a weird... under current vocal
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: that is starting. Yeah. It's just like, everyone seemed to
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: hate it that first couple of weeks. And then like
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: in the year or so since then, I just keep
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: hearing more and more people that are just like, well actually,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: and like then the, the nerd will like get on
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: the soap box of why it's the best screenplay ever.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: I heard the opposite. Like I walked in there with
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: a couple of reviews under my belt telling me it
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: was like the best star Wars movie yet, or one
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: of the best. It was up there with empire or
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: something like that. I was like, all right, cool. I
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: hope so. But, you know, I sincerely do hope that,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'm wrong. A friend of mine actually suggested,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: and I'm not kidding, that maybe the reason why I
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: couldn't was because I didn't want there to be good
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Star Wars anymore. No, no, like that my motivation was
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: essentially that no one could really satisfy me because, you know,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: ultimately I just want the classic Star Wars to be
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: the best.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: But then they remembered that I liked Rogue One a lot,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, but that just doesn't make...
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Because they also hated Rogue One. Like, a lot of
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: the people who really loved Last Jedi, I noticed, didn't
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: like Rogue One very much, and a lot of people
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: who loved Rogue One didn't like Last Jedi.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Which I find interesting. Rogue One actually suffered from some
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: similar problems, but overall I think just told a more
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: compelling story, and actually showed us some characters that I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: think were a little bit He's had a little bit
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: more to grok in less time, if you will.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's... If there's an issue, it's that we
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: don't get to know any of those characters. Yeah, yeah. And, like,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: even the ones we want to know more about, we
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: don't get that much from. We're just like, those guys
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: are cool. I hope they're in more... Oh, no, wait. Spoilers. So, yeah,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: it's like there's so many... But, I mean.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: I can understand like maybe them not developing some of
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: those other couple of side characters, but like our two
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: main characters are the least developed.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: We really get nothing out of those two.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: And moreover, one of their few interactions is like the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: most passionate is actually, and this is something that really
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: got me when I watched the movie.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: It's something that.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Neither character would ever say, believe, or accept, which is
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: that statement where she's like there, there he's, he's taken her.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: They're going to go on their mission now. They're just
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: leaving for it. And she's like picking up a gun
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: to use. And he's all like, wait, you can't carry
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: a gun. You know, you're dangerous or whatever. And she
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: says something along the lines of, you know, we have
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: to learn how to trust each other or else this
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: is all for nothing. And I'm like, she would never
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: say that line. He, of all people, would never believe
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: that line having just shot someone in the back. And
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: never accept it coming from her. And neither of them
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: would ever actually try to convince the other one of
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: this line because that is actually completely working against everything
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: their characters have told us up until this point. But
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: with that said, I know why they left that in there,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: which is the movie itself is about faith. Yeah. It's
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: a movie about faith and about being trapped. In that
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: movie– everyone's stuck in the nightmare.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: It's all the sacrifice for the greater good the entire
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: point of the movie i would.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: Actually go a little bit further than that and say
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: and say there's actually something dare i dare i wax
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: theologically or but almost there's a faith hope and love
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: thing going on there where um imagine it this way
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: like um everyone in that movie is trapped in a
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: nightmare of one kind or another everyone's trapped in a
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: nightmare And that nightmare forces them to do terrible things.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: It forces them to endure terrible things. And if you
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: go to the heart of that nightmare, right, which is
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: Darth Vader's palace, like that's the heart of the nightmare.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: And he's the guy, by the way, who makes sure
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: the nightmare is enforced, right? He's got to keep everyone
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: under the nightmare. And where is he? He's in a
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: tube suffering horrible pain, right? Like, in other words, at
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: the core of hell, Lucifer is the one who is
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: enduring the greatest suffering, right?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: And he's the one making sure everyone else is suffering, right?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: So the heart of the nightmare is the one living
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: the most horrific nightmare themselves. And now they're coming up
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: with this Death Star. And what does the Death Star mean?
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: The Death Star means no one is safe from the
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: nightmare anymore. And the entire story... It's not, I would say,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: I would argue it's not even the sacrifices. I wouldn't
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: say incidental, but the sacrifice is just proof of the
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: premise as it were. What the film is about is
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: that hope and that faith. It's saying no matter how
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: dark this nightmare is, nightmares end and it can end.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: There is hope. And that's Leia's last line in the movie.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: They brought us to hope.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: And of course that ties into the name of what
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be the next episode of New Hope.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: But that's kind of the point of that is that,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: It's not just that, oh, this is the grim and
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: gritty Star Wars. The point of the story is to
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: tell us we're talking about hope. We're telling a story
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: about hope in the midst of a nightmare that no one,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: even the villains, can't escape from, right? And how everyone's
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: trapped in this, but how trusting, believing in each other,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: and that ultimately manifests as sacrifice, how that provides the
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: narrowest chance for escape. And in the end, that's one
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why when Darth Vader gives that scene
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: that we've all been waiting to see from Darth Vader
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: since we were little kids. Emperor, really.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right?
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: We were finally seeing the Darth Vader scene we had
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: all hoped for.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: It's the scene I was creating with the action figure
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: in a cardboard box somewhere. Absolutely. Beat the hell out
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: of every other figure I had.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: God, I'm going to go home and watch it right now.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: But in that scene, the reason why it's there beyond
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: simply being awesome is that it pushes home that significance of,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: oh no, there's a threat of hope. The heaviest, the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: most powerful aspect of this nightmare is going to come
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: to get it. But he's also the one most broken
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: by the nightmare he's enforcing.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: I do like having that element and that aspect to
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: it because it lives up to the thing that we
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: originally sold in that original trilogy. That he is... He
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: is dark and twisted for a reason.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: He's more machine now than man.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: The prequel doesn't really deliver at that level, but the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: fact that that is going on in the middle of
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: Rogue One does hold true. So there is still this
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: thread that we kind of need to make all of
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: this work and to make him the villain himself. and
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: the sad villain that we needed to be.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Usually I don't pay much attention to the, Hey, did
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: you want to know? Like, you know, there are all
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: those clickbait articles, which are like, Hey, do you want
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: to know where so-and-so got his gun in the episode?
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Like that cool thing you say, well, there's a story
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: now about that. And you know, like, cause you know,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: they're writing novels about everything.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: I was starting to say, yeah. The outer limits of
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: the Star Wars universe had nothing but those stories. Yeah.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: But, but one thing that, that I actually liked that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: popped up in my feed not too long ago was,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: you know, Along with play sets of Darth Vader's palace
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: because everyone's kind of fallen in love with it. And
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: people notice it looks kind of like a tuning fork.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: And some clever person came up with a great explanation
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: for what that tower is. Oh, yeah. Like this is
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: actually one of the few pieces of like, you know,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: extended lore or whatever that was like. Actually, that's a
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: pretty cool story. It's a tower that he's going to
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: use to try to communicate with Padme.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: He's trying to basically build a radio tower and use
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: dark side power to reach the great beyond to connect
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: with Padme.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Again, as much as it doesn't deliver in a lot
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: of what's going on in the prequel, it does set up.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: And then, like, again, we skip over what may be
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: the most interesting stuff in a lot of Star Wars.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, the fact that this is the place that
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: his life was destroyed.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: And he goes there. So who, that's why I'm like,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: so did he decide to stay there? Yeah. Or was
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: the emperor such a dick that he's like, no, that's
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: your home now. Nope, nope, nope. You set up your palace, dude.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: Have fun there.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: No, I think it fits with the dark side.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is very, very self-flagellating. Yeah, well, it's because...
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: It is suffering in the middle of the most horrible
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: suffering you ever had. It's not just suffering.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: It's, you live, again, it's very theological in a sense. You,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: it When you are living in sin, you are living
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: in the place of your greatest suffering, right? So he
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: is living in the place where he can meditate on
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: the rawness of his pain rather than trying to outgrow it, right?
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: If he was a stronger man, he would be able
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: to escape the place where he was maimed. But instead,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: he chooses to be in a place where he can
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: always be maimed again.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: He chooses to live in the place that he is
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: in the most pain.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. And that, of course, builds up his anger.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: It builds up his despair, his suffering, all these things
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: that he can use for the dark side purposes. That's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: why he– again, I like this little bit of lore.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was actually a thing they
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: cared about when they were making the movie. But that's
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: why he's thinking, oh, if I build my tuning fork here,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: this is where my power is the greatest. But if
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: you think about it, meditate on that image for a second,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: it's also horribly, ironically tragic because, of course– That pain,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: that suffering, that energy, that's never going to be able
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: to reach the woman he loves. That is exactly not
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: what's going to take him to. If he wanted to
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: contact Padme, he'd probably be in a much better position
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: to go to Naboo. Go to the place where you
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: were happy and try to actually remember. Also, paint your
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: costume white. and just feel better.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: It's also so, like, gothically tragic. Oh, yeah. Like, it
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: is straight up, like, hammer horror.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: The monster that he is when he stands up. No! Oh,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, he is that Frankenstein's monster at that point.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 6: 100%.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: And this is the Frankenstein's castle that he lives in.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: And actually, that's one of the reasons why I feel
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: like it's a bit of a missed opportunity that CGI Tarkin,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: played by the great Hammer Horror actor Peter Cushing, doesn't
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: show up wearing his Puritan garb and.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 7: Say, VEDA!
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Vader, I am here to exorcise you.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, there's so much... Anyway, but that was
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: just like, oh my lord, this is absolutely the vampire's
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: castle where Cushing should go in there with a stake
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: in hand and then say, oh, sorry.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: Wrong movie, sorry. Having a little flashback there in my
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: CG mind. So as promised, this conversation is out of
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: control and is just going to keep going into next week.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: So join us on the next episode as we continue
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: to unravel the mysteries of this universe and those in
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: a galaxy far, far away. But for now, that about
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: does it. We will return next time, same geek feed.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: Seems like it was yesterday when I saw your face.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: You told me how proud you were, but I walked
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: away If.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 7: Only I knew.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: What I know today.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: I would hold you in my arms.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: I would take the pain away. Thank you for all
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 5: you've done. Forgive all your mistakes. There's nothing I wouldn't
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: do to hear your voice again. Sometimes I want to
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 5: call For blaming you For everything.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 9: I just couldn't do And I've hurt myself By hurting
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 9: you Some days.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: I feel broken.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 7: Inside But I won't admit.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: It Sometimes I just wanna.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 7: Hide cause it's you I miss.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 5: And it's so hard to say goodbye when it comes
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: to this. Would you tell me I was wrong Would
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: you help me understand Are you looking down upon me
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: Are you proud of who I am There's nothing I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 5: wouldn't do To have just one more chance To look
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 5: into your eyes And see you looking.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 7: Back Oh.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: Blaming you for everything I just couldn't do And I've
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: hurt myself Oh, if I had just one more day
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: I would tell you how much that I missed you
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: Since you've been away.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 10: I'm sorry for blaming you For everything.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 10: Do And I've hurt myself.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 7: Behind you.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: Lord Vader Can you hear me?
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, master.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Where is Padme?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 10: Is she safe?
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: Is she all right?
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 5: It seems in your anger, you killed her. I.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: I couldn't have.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: She was alive.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: I felt it.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 9: Padme.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 6: No!
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: edited by Theodicy Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: For more on how to sponsor or support the show,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 7: Talk hard!
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: This program is a proud member of the Battleship Pretension Fleet.