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Michele Aikens: The Bold Reinvention- Redefining Your Worth · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be free.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Today I have Michelle Akins.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: She is the CEO and lead coach of ClearSight Coaching and Consulting.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: With over 30 years of experience in leadership development, communications, and team dynamics, she combines strategic vision with empathy to guide leaders through transformation, drawing from her background as a storyteller, playwright, and author of five books, including the inspiring Consider the Possibilities, Pursuing What Matters Most.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: With degrees in organizational leadership and religious studies, Michelle brings both practical insight and purpose-driven focus to her work, helping clients find the courage and clarity to pursue what matters most.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to talk to you.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a little bit here and there, but we haven't really gotten into what's your definition.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to hear what bold looks like and means to you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, bold is one of my favorite words.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bold is the ideal way to respond when you're confronted with fear or change.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: My definition.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when you feel that fear come up and you do it anyway, or you you know something's happening or has to happen that's gonna make your world different.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it means maybe you're growing or changing, or maybe you're moving.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a whole host of things.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when either of those types of things come up, those are the moments.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: The kind of the bold signal goes up in the air, like the bad signal.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Lean into your bold, yes.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when did you lean into your bold that comes to mind for you, like a moment in your life that you've really lived that definition?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a a real clear moment.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was a moment of two years, though.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I came out of media, I worked for a startup and had created a successful magazine that was about to go national with a volunteer staff and a part-time editor.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But our company was a media company, and so there was this choice between music and print.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the logic was people will listen to music more than they'll do this.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found myself out of a job at 50 years old.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And because so much of my identity had previously been tied into what I did, like so many of us, what do you do?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was mentally punch-drunk.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, well, who am I now that I don't have this?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And for two years, I tried the band-aids, looking for another job, looking for this, looking for that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But two years after that career ending change, a former student called and said, Hey, Miss Akins, how do you start a magazine?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in that conversation, I remembered all of the things that I had forgotten I knew, and I was energized by it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We talked for 90 minutes, and I just dumped everything that he wanted to know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And when I got off the phone, I thought, wow, God, what was that?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what I heard.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: What would you have wanted someone to tell you two years ago?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And my response was, I would have wanted them to tell me that I had value, there was something important in me, and I would want them to take me by the hand and help me find it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And my sense was get up and do that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that is when the bold kicked in.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is that place where what you know and who you've been meets the future.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to move into that future, you have to do it boldly because it's not something you know.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not guaranteed.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's there's no map, there's no GPS for that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you might generally know the road, but I think you know, you you really learn a lot once you're on it, so to speak, you know?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about that, like I've had some conversations this week about identity and connection to our role, and something I do at my retreats and the things that that you know we've talked about is I ask people to introduce themselves, but they're not allowed to say their title or who they work for.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've all done it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I introduced myself.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you think it's not your identity, but it really does, it's hard for it not to be, especially the longer you're in it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know that when I left the corporate world and I didn't do that, it was interesting just to see how people responded to me.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have that issue at all?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or in your two years, did you feel like sometimes because you didn't have that, people didn't realize you were still just as smart, just as talented, just as on point as you were before?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or did it did it just feel like it there wasn't something that you could say that you were connected to that and you know, maybe in the past, you know, brought value externally?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that just in looking back, I was surrounded by people who identified themselves the same way.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because even though you do it, most of us still do that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: When we go to an event, so what do you do?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very common question, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't think they even thought about it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I had always presented as a capable, smart, resilient, creative person.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was able to keep that persona going.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't that be great if that's how you introduce yourself?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a brilliant, smart, capable woman.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, we should do that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be a great way to introduce ourselves.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: People like, whoa, what's that of all about?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's true, though.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is true.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's who you are, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my goodness.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now, and but here's the interesting thing, though.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: As women, as girls, I don't know about you, but we're kind of socialized to be nice.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not the thing you would say about yourself.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: You want other people to point it out to you.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to brag, you don't want to brag.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, nice girls don't brag about themselves.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found out though, during that time of transition, I had a friend who became my mentor, and he was a salesperson and got a chance to talk me into what are you doing here?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't you say those things about yourself?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, because nice girls don't do that.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it hinders us when it's time to share our strengths because you have to be able to boldly say, I do this well.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good at this, and this is how I can help you rather than waiting for someone else to discover it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting, just you know, knowing our path, both as authors and the things that we do.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: The things that you put out into the world that seem to get the ooh and the ah is actually when you are out there talking about what you do or going on television or being on a podcast, or it's like, wow, you know, look at Michelle, you know, look at what she's doing, look what she's done.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we just need to do more of that in a way that feels aligned with who we are.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it might not feel comfortable.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't mean comfortable when I say aligned.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by that is, you know, if it's who you are and what you want to do and it's true, like put it out there in a way that, you know, it makes sense for you, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when we think about being in transition, and I was there, but I think like during my transition, when I quit my role and was figuring out my what's next, I think for me it was I needed to figure out who I was.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was 48, and you and I have talked about this a little bit, but I think because of the strong connection, obviously over 20 years in a role, uh, you know, the type of role, two places, but 20 years, for me, like it was like, who am I now?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I want to do?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What do I like to do?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: What am I now good at?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: What am I wanting to learn more about?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, these were all these cool questions I got to ask myself.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I was in transition, of course, it was scary in the sense of like I wasn't sure what I was doing as an entrepreneur and was I gonna do it right?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And was it, you know, was it everything gonna be okay?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think I also was excited and I felt some freedom that I hadn't had before.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have that same type of feeling when you were at least I know like over that two-year period, you were able to do some things that you probably wouldn't have been able to do when you were in your other role.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, there was a sense of I could do anything I wanted.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have that same feeling?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, okay, for two years, I tried to find this is how it felt someone else who would want me to be their employee.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had this sense of wanting to be wanted, and so not having a job in some weird way made me feel like I wasn't wanted, and so I was looking for that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I applied for stuff and got so much, you're overqualified.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're no, or just no.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I kept bumping up against what I was accustomed to until I realized, hey, this is not gonna work, and it's giving me a headache.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Did it make you mad, sad?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: What were the emotions of that?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know it feels like you're being rejected because right before I quit my job, I was trying to find another role and it was COVID, so it was not, it was suboptimal.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say, yeah, and yeah, I think you experienced some of that too in the same time range, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was in the same range of time.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, um, for me, it was um during the recession of 2009.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was further back, okay, but still not a great time to be looking for a role, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: True, not.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, you're right, it did feel like being rejected over and over again.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the switch for me, like I said, there's somebody comes along and asks the right question and it shifts your framework.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: The switch for me was okay, what would happen if I created the company I wanted to work for?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's hiring me, so why don't I create it?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: What would that look like?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the switch.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: It never occurred to me until then to create it myself.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lesson here, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: In the sense of for me, you know, we've talked about the bold framework.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the B is believe that there's some, I think, limited beliefs that I had for sure about what was possible.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that I believed in myself enough to just go for it, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I honestly at in some point had really no other choice because I couldn't find a job externally, but I had never even thought about being an entrepreneur or having my own business or doing any of that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you really never had thought about that before either until that moment.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, never.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what'd you do next?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Once you sort of like have this aha moment.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I had the aha moment and I created a practice for women like me.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because remember, 2009, that was there was a recession going on.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a lot of people being outsized.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say down outsized.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I created a practice to help women who had been outsized to reconnect with who they really were.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I saw this disconnect between what we're doing with our hands and where our hearts were.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so my practice was to help bridge that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So not only did we do things that we were built for, but we would get fulfillment in doing it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was the practice I started.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: There was some modicum of success, but I couldn't get past the disconnect.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I went to explore coaching.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And being the nerd that I am, I didn't just take a quick course.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I studied it for a couple of years because I really I'm a brain nerd.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really wanted to know how this worked.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was when I included coaching as part of my services that the practice started to grow.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it occurred to me before my back was against the wall.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so the two things that you're learning about yourself, that one, you totally can figure it out, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you probably knew that in the back of your mind because you you really seem like a very bold woman, someone who's figures it out, very smart, very ambitious, and also very caring.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, in this sense of being able to take all those good attributes you have and put them into something like coaching, feels very, very aligned with that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: How did you prepare for your first client, your first person you coached?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: What did that feel like for you?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I had bunked into purpose.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't looking for it, but sitting in that first coaching session across from this brilliant woman who was going through a divorce and caring for an aged parent, but there was all this brilliance shining through, but the pieces were all over the place.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And instantly I was like, this is where I belong.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: One, I realized just listening can be a safe place.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can be a safe place for somebody.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can listen.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can listen.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, I can help you figure out what you already know.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt like literally bumping into purpose because I wasn't, I was, I was just looking for something to affirm my sense of the success that I had experienced in the past.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about, well, yeah, you seem sensitive and caring and all of that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we take those skills and we do them for other people without realizing they are who we are.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we can do the same things for ourselves, whether it's creating a business or writing a book, we can turn that light on who we are and create something beautiful that, yes, and I use this phrase a lot, changes the world.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You change one life, you impact one person, you really do change the world.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think people underestimate that.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I know, like, even when I first uh wrote my first book, someone said, What do you think your sales success?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you define it?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, if I sell one book to someone other than my mom.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, although my mom, she was the first person to buy my book, but like one book plus my mom buying a book, I feel like I've like I will make a difference.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as I'm making a difference, I don't honestly, I mean, everyone wants to succeed and have a lot of X, Y, or Z, whatever that metric is, but for me, it was all about making a difference, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what you just hit, you know, hit on the head, you know, in the sense of that's what it's all about.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes we underestimate like the small moves that we think we're making actually are more impactful than we realize.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have an example of some small moves you think though that wasn't a big deal or this wasn't a big deal, but it had an impact when it comes to even just when you're coaching someone, it could be the slightest thing, like a reframe of how you talk to yourself, or it could be how you would say it versus how they're saying it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I went to my 10th interview and I didn't get it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And my response to that was like, Wow, 10 interviews.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you're you're hitting something, but maybe we just need to like tune something, or maybe there's something that we could be talking about, so you know kind of how to go into the next level.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anything come to mind for you about like things that come up and you realize it's might be a small tune or change, but it has a great impact or a positive impact on others?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: For me, what comes up a lot is I and and here's one of my favorite examples.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started on this entrepreneurial journey, and I started to realize I could make a difference, I had a blog talk network and it was a lot of fun.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody was doing blog talk back then.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a woman who was surrounded by women who were successful in business.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were architects and accountants and this and that, and she stayed home with the children, and she asked me one day, could I just shadow you?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get coffee, I'll do whatever.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just I just want to learn.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: She is now studying to become a therapist.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is all about how you see yourself.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's why, and you know this, in our work, we ask a lot more questions than we give answers.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because the understanding is to realize am I minimizing myself and why?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: How does minimizing me serve me?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: What am I getting out of that?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we shift into the place where you see what's great in you, what's bright in you?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite examples to use is where is your inner compass leading you?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I believe we're all born with a compass that will direct us to the places we're supposed to go, the experiences that we're supposed to have, so that we can be who we have been created to be.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we turn it off early on because somebody says, Oh, you can't make any money, do that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Doing some do something practical.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time we're 40, 50 years old, that compass becomes more insistent.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's more difficult to ignore.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: There is, you know, from a science perspective, you know, there is this happiness curve that happens at 47, 48, 49.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they call it a midlife crisis, but it's actually to me an awakening.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: About like, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to feel like that anymore.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do more of, I want to see more of X, Y, Z.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's where you, I feel like, and you you said it earlier, but it's kind of like where you are meets where you're supposed to be and where you're going, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of it's almost like you know, a three-way stop.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am going to the future.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am going to future me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, I want to meet her.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: For me, what's so interesting is it, you know, when they say it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, I'm getting older.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, but I really believe that because I think it's all about like what's happening right now, how you're moving through the world, the things that you're doing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't about the end game, it's about the now game.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, I like that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: People do minimize themselves, or maybe they don't maximize what they're good at or what the impact they could have.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of taking them from the kind of the minimized to the maximized mindset in a sense.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about something you've learned about yourself over those those years of kind of trying things, and you know, why don't I create it?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was like I can do that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's one of the mindset shifts you had to had to work on or to take?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest one was, and and when I started this journey, a mentor friend came along and it was thinking differently about what was in my hands.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd always been a magazine publisher, and so everything is about getting the ad dollar so that you can publish the magazine.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times we go back to what's familiar.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know how to publish magazines.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a couple of digital ones.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in a relationship with a hair product owner in another state, and my mentor watched me contact stylists and salons and what have you to get his product in their stores so that he would advertise in my magazine.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And Ken said to me, You know, I've been watching you.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you were selling ad space, but giving away something that's much more valuable.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all of that relationship building and and and connecting and what I had minimized the importance of that while I simply um tried to create some transactional ad sales, but it shifted how I thought about what I do.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: That those were the things of real value.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, maybe a question to listeners is just you know, pause in a moment, whether you're driving or thinking about it today, but like, are you minimizing your gifts?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are you minimizing your expertise?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are, how can you shift to maximizing your impact?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what it's all about.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're really teaching, that's what you're sharing, that's what you're modeling in that and making that shift.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the bold part.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you see you're good at it, and and part of your platform, your bold, the believe portion is test it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have an instinct.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: We know that we we've seen that we're good at this.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: The doors seem to be closing on the things that we're familiar with.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So test what you're good at.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just do like a scientist.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I got a theory here.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a theory that I think I might be good at this.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's test it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that, you know, because I think sometimes I know I can get caught up in that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've got I think I've gotten better at it, but I've realized too that you're not just over something or something isn't just like, oh, I don't have that anymore.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I sometimes they trickle back, but perfectionism can sneak up on you, I think, and keep you in a spot, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And keep you from making that first move.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about fear earlier.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's certainly something too that can um, you know, hold you back from making the next step that you need to take.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you really just need to take the next step.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes people think they need to take, you know, a hundred steps.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about your book, the one we're talking about, you've written multiple books.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations on that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's an incredible feat.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then, because I I'm on my second book and I just know the effort and what it takes and all the things that go along with that.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: But in consider the possibilities, pursuing what matters most.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is it connected to I can create it, I can do it, I can figure it out.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me why you wrote this particular book.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for asking that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that that 2009 was so pivotal to my life and my trajectory.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I always go back to that.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how to look for new possibilities.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So many of us go through life doing what we've always done.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: If I lose one job, I find another one.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm really bold, I may change industries.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm still gonna look for that next thing that makes me feel safe.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I had never considered any other possibility than what I was always doing.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: But when I did consider new possibilities, a whole world opened up to me.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was no longer limited to this sphere or this space.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I could explore wherever I wanted to.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the message of the book.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Explore where you've been afraid to go.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a chapter on change, and someone asked me in an interview, what inspired the chapter on change?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, oatmeal.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because you didn't like it, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, but you're supposed to eat it because it's healthy.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and here's what happened: my daughter, who is you know in her 30s, made some oatmeal that was savory instead of sweet.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, is this good?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So how many of us eat our oatmeal the same way, approach our career the same way, look at life the same way?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: We don't explore new possibilities, and then we wonder what this thing is in us, this dull hum of discontent.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: The compass is crying out for another direction.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the compass is saying, hey, nudge, nudge, this is the way to go, you know, rerouting.
• 25:48
  unknown: Yes.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've certainly experienced that, you know, literally and figuratively, uh, you know, in in so many ways.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is something for us just to think about because I think when you get into these spaces of the unknown, or I'm not sure, or I'm changing jobs, or I've lost my job, it is a rerouting.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a rerouting of not only where you're going, but it's a rerouting of how you're thinking that's right.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: About where you're going.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the harder part.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that's definitely hard.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can find another job, but boy, rerouting that mindset.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's stepping into the space of exploration, what's a tip or what's a a how-to that someone can do that where it it's gonna feel uncomfortable potentially, so I can't take that off the table, but so that it feels more aligned or feels more them, and they and they need to do it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you how do you encourage someone to explore what's possible?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I say start at the shallow and wade into the deep at your own pace.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here's an example.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and you commended me for writing several books, but do you know how they all started out?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: As play.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy a good story, and in order to relax my mind, I create stories.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there are some things that people consider play.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't consider them seriously.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is just something I do.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Explore why you get joy from that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my daughter, when she was young, she liked to tinker.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: She actually built her own rig so that she could film scenes in a car as a teenager.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow, nothing like that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing like that.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she's in advertising now, and what she is commended on is her ability to see the moving parts.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are some things that we don't consider, going back to the things that we've minimized, but they give us joy.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not important, but they give us joy.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So start with what gives you joy.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the pushback I get with from that sometimes is I can never make a living out of that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I like X, Y, or Z, or I like baking, or I like um making floral arrangements, or I'm just saying things I like actually.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but people will say, like, oh, I can't make a living off of that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I can definitely see myself saying that too.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what was most interesting about when I made the change that I made with a very short runway to figure out my what's next, I didn't limit what was possible.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that made to me, and as cliche as this may sound, everything possible.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it was a huge shift, and it didn't happen overnight.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's just something I think people do.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: They do limit what's possible.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it starts, I think, at the core of what they believe about themselves or believe.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if someone says that to you, what would you say?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can't make a living off of things that make me happy.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: My question would be, what's a living?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: What is a living?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know we need a job, and there's some things that you need so that you pay your bills and all of that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, however, what is a living to you and how do you make room for the living that you want?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it doesn't become your business, but you bake for the fun of it, and you deliver cakes and uh to nursing homes or children's or whatever.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or you are led by your passion, creativity kicks in, innovation, which is what all of the businesses are looking for, innovation kicks in, and you find a new way to be a baker.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So who says you can't make a living at it?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all up to you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why the title of the book isn't do the possibility, it's consider them.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just be just bold enough to think a little bit differently about what's in your hands.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thinking a little bit bigger, right?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit older.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Bit outside of maybe what's expected of you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes as I'll I'll just say as women, we have a lot of and men do as well.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: But my lived experiences as a woman, so in the sense of kind of what I've I've seen, is that there's a lot of expectation on us to do certain things at certain times and do certain things.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were saying earlier, like it's not, you know, we're taught not to brag about ourselves or boast about ourselves and to do it for other people, but don't do it for yourself.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, no, no.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to kind of some of the expectations that are on us when it comes to limiting our possibilities, do you feel like there's something that we need to reset or someone has shared, or a lot of us have grown up with of you know, hearing over and over when it comes to what is possible and what is not?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that we need to reset?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to look at the messages we got during our formative years.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was a stutterer growing up.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be a ballerina dancer.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: The latter would not have worked.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just trust me.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm me either like it's lovely to watch, but no, I would not be.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But learning who I was in terms of my intellect is what actually helped me in practicing with a church group, giving speeches, helped me to overcome my stuttering.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have a fear of crowds.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: But had I nurtured the dysfunction, and some of us as children had dysfunctions nurtured.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't pushed to to expand those horizons because some of those dysfunctions made us and the people around us feel safe.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so you grow up with that, and you grow up with an I can't do that, which then goes over to other things.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the reset is to go back and explore what it is that you thought you couldn't do.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have a saying when I'm working with executive women, sometimes the child who couldn't jump double dutch speaks louder than the woman with the corner office.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like again, it comes back to I think the minimize and maximizing yourself.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe this is your next book.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, there's something there in the sense of like really thinking about what am I minimizing?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't really think about it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: We it's just like it's just happening, and kind of having some introspection into that and some prompts to really think about it, I think is is something really helpful.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: What thinking about a reset, you were doing some things now, and you have something coming up specifically for your group coaching that's called What's Next for Me?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me a little bit about how that came about and what it is about?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do work with executive women, individuals, on things that are happening.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot happening in our world economically, businesses are being impacted by some things that are going on politically, tariffs, this and that.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are really trying to reset.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so some of these leaders are facing the prospect of having to look for more work, or may even be deciding, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about that happiness curve, and some of them may be reaching there.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So clarity, what's next for me, is a six-week group coaching program that allows women to come together.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's on Zoom, because I don't want to be limited by location, where we look at there's an aspect of our lives, for instance.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of the sessions deals with mourning.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And some of us are mourning things, we're mourning dreams, we're mourning the promotion we didn't get, we're mourning uh a failed relationship.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that is coloring how we see our possibilities.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always gonna talk about possibilities.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so this whole idea of clarity is about moving the stuff that keeps you from seeing clearly where it is you want to go and who you want to be.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So all the information about that is down in the episode notes for anyone that wants to learn more about the coaching program and coming up and how it can impact you in a positive way.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you're doing it in a way where as many people can come and virtually as possible.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: As we kind of close out and you think about being purpose-driven in our roles and in our life, purpose feels like a really big heavy word, I think.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it can stop people, like when someone says, What's your purpose?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: and they can't give an instantaneous answer.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to someone who's just trying to figure out what their purpose is?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: What would they need to do or need to think about?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: I purpose is another one of my favorite words because I don't believe any of us are accidents.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I encourage people to do is look in your toolbox.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at a doctor, if you look at a plumber, you know who they are by what's in the bag they're carrying.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: We are all carrying some things, some strengths, some things we do naturally without any training.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: What have you learned?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where's your education?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Look at everything in your toolbox and then put it next to the compass.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where might that toolbox be leading you in terms of your compass?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I also say, look for the leap.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we are heading in a place, even though it might be scary, if we're heading in a new place, scary, but we know we're equipped for it, but we've never done it before.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's scary, but we've got everything in our toolbox that we need to do it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's scary, there's a little bit of leap of excitement that many of us have not experienced since we were children on roller coasters.
• 36:12
  unknown: Right.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's scary.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same kind of leap, but oh, it's so much fun once you get into it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I tell people examine your toolbox, hone into your inner compass, and then look for the leap.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think when we feel fear sometimes, I think sometimes we think, oh, it's a stop sign.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a I shouldn't do it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, I think you're staying safe ultimately is the goal, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes fear is there just to keep you safe.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe when you're on that roller coaster.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you're, you know, like you said, you're strapped in, you have all the safety things are are checked.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's also a signal that it's important.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think seeing fear is something like, oh, this is signaling, this is important.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: My safety might be important, my job's important, my financial security is important, my happiness is important.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so just really kind of seeing that, feeling that leap feel, and then knowing that fear isn't always meant to be a stop sign, it's an indicator of importance of what's coming ahead or what you're about to do.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I agree.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I will add this one thing whatever the fear is, whether it's to keep you safe or to cause you to leap, it's gotta be faced.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love ending on that too.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: All the information about Michelle, her books, her program that's coming up, what's next for me, all of that is in the episode notes.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: So appreciate you sharing your bold journey on the bold lounge.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.