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#HURDLEMOMENT: How to Get Comfortable Being Uncomfortable · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Humans have way more potential than we realize. So by
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: doing something hard when you think you really can't do it,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: we learn a lot about ourselves. And there's some like
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: evolutionary machinery that really gets triggered. Our natural environment used
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to show us these sorts of challenges all the time
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: because life was tough. We had to do things like
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: hunt and gather and move great distances. But nowadays we
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: don't really have that, so I think we do need
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: these sort of moments that push back at us and
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: teach us something about ourselves.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Emily and Badi here you are listening to
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: another installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: A wellness focused podcast.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and industry CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments, and
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: everything between.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: These discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: and move with intention so that you can stride towards
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: your own big potential and of course have some fun
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: along the way. This week on Hurdle Moment, I am
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: let's call it reigniting. I'm bringing back my conversation with
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Michael Easter. He is the author of The Comfort Crisis
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: in Brace Discomfort to Reclaim your.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Wild, happy, healthy self, and him.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: And I had a chat last year about how to
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: get more comfortable with the uncomfortable and why that is
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: so important. He's a contributing editor at Men's Health Magazine,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: He's a calmnist for Outside Magazine, and a professor at
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the University.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Of Nevada, Las Vegas.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Now, I know why you're wondering, why are you re
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: upping this conversation right now? And honestly, it wasn't that
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: long ago following our conversation that I finally had time
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to sit down and read Easter's book, The Comfort Crisis,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: and tbh, it had some really impactful takeaways, many of
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: which we touch on in this episode that I really
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  Speaker 2: feel can help shift your perspective and help you on
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: your journey to get the most out of your potential.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Now, before we get to.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: This episode, I do want to make sure that I
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: have one more time give some love to my friends
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: at ASEX who are offering up the Hurdle Community fifteen
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: dollars off a purchase of one hundred dollars or more
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: using the code hurdle one.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Five at checkout.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: They were so kind to have me out at World
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Athletic Championships with them, and I know how rare it
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: is to get a good deal on some great sneakers.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: So again, that's.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Hurdle one five at checkout at aesx dot com. Make
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: sure you're following along with hurdle over on social it's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: at Hurdle Podcast.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I am over at Emily a body and one more thing.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'd love to feature you in the Hurdler Spotlight in
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the weekly Hurdle newsletter. I have a form in the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: show notes that you can fill out and I can
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: hype you up asap with that. Let's get to hurdling.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Today. I am chatting with Michael Easter.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: He is a new author of The Comfort Crisis, Discomfort
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: to Reclaim your wild, happy, healthy self.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: How you doing today?
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I'm doing well? How are you?
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: I am so good?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: The question right off the bat has to be how
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: does a guy get to a point where he says
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: to himself, you know what I'm going to do. I'm
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: going to write a book about getting uncomfortable.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is a great question, and there were a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: variety of steps for that, So I'll kind of start
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: from the beginning.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: One. I worked at Mental for a while.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Right, and I noticed this pattern in everything I did
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: for men tell Getting healthy, whether it's improving your fitness,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: losing weight, usually comes with some form of discomfort.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 1: If I want to improve my fitness, I'm gonna have
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to work out. Well, working out is uncomfortable. If I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: want to lose weight, probably gonna be hungry, being hungry socks.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: Okay, So there's that.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Then I meet this guy whose name is Donnie Vincent
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: and he's a backhountry bowhunter and filmmaker. He goes into
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: these crazy remote places off the grid and he'll be
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: there for like a month, right, And I end up
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: doing a story with this guy for Men's Health. So
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  Speaker 1: we go into the wilds of Nevada for like a week.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, like working at Men's Health, you have
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  Speaker 1: to work out a lot, Like you get sent into
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  Speaker 1: these crazy extreme gyms. I've met some characters whatever. But
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: we get up there and it is uncomfortable in all
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  Speaker 1: these different ways that like I just hadn't experienced forever. Right,
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  Speaker 1: It's freezing cold the entire time we're carrying these eighty
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  Speaker 1: pound packs on our back the entire time. Like to
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: go get water, we have to hike a mile downstream
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  Speaker 1: and bring it back up. We're bored because hunting is
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  Speaker 1: actually very boring. It's not like you're just walking through
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  Speaker 1: the woods, like you're kind of looking through scopes for
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  Speaker 1: like hours of the time. And we only had one scope,
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  Speaker 1: and I didn't have my phone and I didn't have service,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: so it's just like, oh, what is boredom? Like this
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  Speaker 1: is new long story short, Donnie. The story is good,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: like people like it. We both get a lot of outreach.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: He invites me to come up to the Arctic with
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  Speaker 1: him for thirty three days, and I'm like, all right,
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  Speaker 1: let's do it. So I go up there with him
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  Speaker 1: and it is just Nevada on steroids, where it's like
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  Speaker 1: I experience all these discomforts that we as humans literally
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  Speaker 1: experience every single day. The life I lived up there
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  Speaker 1: was how humans lived for two point five million years
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  Speaker 1: up until like a couple hundred years ago. But when
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I come back to my nice, safe, comfortable life at home,
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  Speaker 1: everything is better. Like the dial on my mental, physical,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and spiritual health was like eleven. It was just unlike
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: anything that ever happened, and I wanted to know why
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  Speaker 1: that was. So I sort of set off on this
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: investigation and I traveled around the world. I read way
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: too many studies, like way too many, met with people
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: ranging from special forces soldiers, anthropologists at Harvard. I went
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  Speaker 1: to Bhutan and met with Buddhist leaders, went to Iceland,
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  Speaker 1: and sort of the conclusion that I came up with
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  Speaker 1: was that humans need a little bit of discomfort to
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  Speaker 1: improve their lives. And there are a handful that I've
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  Speaker 1: identified in the book, and they all tend to be
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: things that we used to face all the time. Right,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: we used to have to go through hunger, like life
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  Speaker 1: took effort. And even the way that we approach exercise
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: today we try and make it comfortable, Like we go
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: into these air conditioned gyms and like we get on elliptical,
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  Speaker 1: it's all like very programmed and scheduled, and then like, okay,
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  Speaker 1: my thirty minutes are up to go. Now I'm going
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to go like sit on the couch. Right, Whereas life
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  Speaker 1: used to into challenge and effort. And so I've sort
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: of by investigators sort of by weaving back some of
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: these things that I've singled out in the book. We
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: can move the dial a lot in ways that I
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  Speaker 1: think are beneficial for people.
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  Speaker 3: So interesting.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much to tap back on here.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, thirty three days in the Arctic. Wow,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: you're married, right?
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: I am married?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, you want to hear something totally messed up though,
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  Speaker 1: This is the most messed up part of all this book,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: And I didn't talk about this. This is a this
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  Speaker 1: is a sore spot. Well, I was in the Arctic.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: My wife went on a freaking cruise into the Greek Islands.
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  Speaker 4: So she's like.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, She's like, oh, you're hungry. Yeah, Well I was
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  Speaker 1: on a boat that's a floating buffet.
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  Speaker 4: You know. It was awesome, though it was the ultimate troll.
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  Speaker 3: The ultimate Oh my goodness.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to say, how did she feel about
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: you going to the Arctic for thirty three days?
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  Speaker 3: But it seems that she managed just fine.
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  Speaker 4: I did.
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  Speaker 2: And then two other things that you brought out really
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: interesting to think about. The first thing you mentioning, well,
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  Speaker 2: I didn't have my phone. The phone has become such
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  Speaker 2: a crutch for us in so many circumstances of discomfort. Right,
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  Speaker 2: you could be anywhere from out to dinner with someone,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: to walking down the street. And these are all instances
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  Speaker 2: where you have ample opportunity for other social interaction, but
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  Speaker 2: we lean into our phones to get over that hurdle
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  Speaker 2: of well, I don't know what's going to happen if
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  Speaker 2: I actually expose myself to the world.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, totally, and there's a good reason for this. So
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  Speaker 1: as humans evolved, two things when we would get bored.
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  Speaker 1: Boredom is this like evolutionary discomfort that basically tells us,
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  Speaker 1: whatever you're doing right now, the return on your time
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  Speaker 1: invested has warned thin, so you need to go do
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  Speaker 1: something else. So for example, let's say we're hunting there's
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  Speaker 1: no animals around, Boredom would kick in and basically be like, yo,
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  Speaker 1: go do something else. It's going to improve your life,
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  Speaker 1: so it kept us alive. Number two is that humans
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  Speaker 1: hate unpredictability. So I talked to this researcher, a Brown,
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  Speaker 1: and he's like, the human brain is always going to
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  Speaker 1: default to something that can predict So we have two
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: things going on. One is that now anytime we feel
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: even the most tinge of boredom, we have this really
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: easy and captivating way to fix it. A phone number
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: two with that social thing, It's like, if I'm having
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: a conversation with someone on text, that is so much
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  Speaker 1: more predictable than if we're having a face to face interaction.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Because let's say I say something in a way that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you take wrong. Well, that's scary. But if I'm writing
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: a text, I'm like, oh, this person might take that wrong. Delete, delete, delete,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I can filter it and send it. So yeah, the phone,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: there's a reason now. And something else I talk about
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  Speaker 1: in the book is that you know, there's a lot
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: of focus on phones, and I think that that is great,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: but I think that sometimes when people try to use
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: their phone less, they oftentimes will just default to like, Okay, well,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: now I'm just going to watch Netflix instead, or now
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be on my computer screen instead, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: like your brain does not know the difference in terms
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  Speaker 1: of how hard it has to work between the screen
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: on your phone and the screen on Netflix, or even
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: things like podcasts. And these are all great things, but
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: like my argument is like, let's not think less phone.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Let's think how can I integrate boredom back into my
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: life in a productive way, Because you'll find that once
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: you don't have that easy escape into your phone. The
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: brain tends to come up with creative ideas. Some of
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: them are totally a waste, Like you'll think of some
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: wacky stuff that you're just like, where the hell.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Do come from?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: But a lot of times you'll find something interesting and productive,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you know. So they do studies where they find that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: board people come up with more better creative ideas than
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: people who are not bored.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: So interesting, So interesting.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And something else that you mentioned was that so many
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: companies have made it their mission to make getting healthier
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: quote unquote easier and seem less difficult. So the question, right, really,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: is that then a good thing or a bad thing?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Because from my point of view, at least until this conversation,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: in this moment, thinking about it in this manner, my
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: thought is that it's a good thing, right because for
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: so many the change and the stepping outside of their
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: comfort zone feels like such a barrier to entry that
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: for some they need that level of ease to get
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: in the door to start with. So what do we
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: say to that person when it comes to perhaps picking
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: up a new meditation routine or getting into fitness or
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'll answer that this way, And like specifically
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: thinking about fitness. If you are a person who frequently
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: exercises and enjoys working out, you are one of the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: weird ones. Okay, So when you look at like how
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: humans evolved, exercise is something we made up when we
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: had to remove movement from our days by the technological advances,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Like it would have never made sense to move without
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a very purposeful objective like I need to go get
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: food or something like that. So we're wired for laziness essentially.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: So I tell you that because I don't think. I
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times in the fitness world people
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: get shamed for not exercising and not wanting to exercise.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, it's totally normal to not want to
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: exercise and to not enjoy it, and that's okay. But
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: it's also like there's a lot of things that I
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: do in my life that I've been forced into doing
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: that I don't like to do either. Like I didn't
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: want to learn to read when I was a kid.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Reading is this thing we had to make up to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like improve our communication as a species. Is we had
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a lot more people, right, but I had to do that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I have to pay my taxes, you know, and obviously
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: you don't have to exercise in the way you have
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to pay your taxes, but we also know that if
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: you're not moving there's going to be health consequences down
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the world. I mean, the data is overwhelming in terms
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: of what a lack of fitness does for mortality rates.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Like it's I mean, it takes more years off your
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: life if you really don't move at all than smoking
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: when you look at the data. So I don't know
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: if that answers your question, but it's kind of one
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of those things. And I think that I think starting
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: where you're at is so important too, you know, like
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: if you don't do anything, it's like, just start with
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a five minute walk that if that's too long and
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that sucks too much, try one minute, Try thirty seconds.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Next time, try thirty five seconds, then forty. I think
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it's really just sort of just building up that ability
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: to be okay with feeling a little uncomfortable, and that
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: improves over time.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the natural question that builds up over time
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: here is someone recognizes, Okay, I need to make a change.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I understand that this change is going to be uncomfortable
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: or what it is that I am seeking to do is.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Not within my current house? How do they proceed?
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: What's the next step after making that, perhaps like confession
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: to themselves.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people get more worked
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: up about the idea of being uncomfortable then they are
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: about actually being uncomfortable. Like once you start something, it's
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: not that bad, you know. It's like to take hunger,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: for example, people don't freak out about being hungry.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: They freak out.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: About the idea of being hungry. Right, It's like because
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: if you've actually experienced physiological hunger, it's not like it
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: builds and builds and builds and then it's just like
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: completely unbearable. It kind of comes and goes in waves
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: based on where your attention is. So I think realizing
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: that you're probably overthinking this, like yes, there's going to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: be some moments of discomfort, but also think like you
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: kind of sometimes have to do things that are uncomfortable
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: if you want to improve yourself or learn things. I mean,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: change is uncomfortable. Back to like what humans like and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: don't like. Humans are wired to not like change. We
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: want things that are predictable, right, Like the human brain
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: has always defaulted to what is predictable. So getting out
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: of your comfort zone can be tough, but the rewards
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: are huge. I mean even just things like you look
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: at their research on changing up your routine, and we
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: all tend to live in autopilot mode. Well, once we
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: go out of that autopilot mode, it really can improve
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: your focus and where your attention is spent. All of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you can't predict the future, so you have
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: to pay attention, you know, and you look at someone
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like the work of William James. He talks about how
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the end of your life, the sum of your life,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: is what you paid attention to. Right, So if you
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: can get yourself in moments where you just are kind
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of forced into being mindful, it's like that stuff you're
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: going to remember.
• 15:54
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  Speaker 3: Today. Also got to.
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  Speaker 2: Give some love to my friends at Element because I
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  Speaker 2: cannot imagine my life without it.
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  Speaker 3: Right now.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I did a fourteen mile long run this morning, and
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  Speaker 2: let me tell you, the first thing that I did
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: the second I was finished was chug down an ice
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: cold bottle of watermelon.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Elements.
• 17:40
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  Speaker 2: It's got no sugar, no gluten, no fillers, no other
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: sketchy ingredients. Now I know you may be wondering why
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: are electrolytes important? Will Electrolytes facilitate hundreds of functions in
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the body, include the conduction of nerve impulses, hormonal regulation,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: futurn absorption, and fluid balance.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: And when we lose.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Electrolytes it can lead to some not so stellar symptoms
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: like headaches, muscle cramps, and fatigue. Elements can help prevent
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: all of that. That is why it's my go to. Plus,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: they have so many different flavors for every taste you
• 18:23
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• 18:26
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  Speaker 2: that is drink d r I nk l m nt
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: dot com slash hurdle. Wow, I'm like sitting here thinking
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: about that idea of the sum of your life is
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the things that you pay attention to. It's I remember
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: one I was speaking to someone and they pointed out
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: that the differences between like optimistic people and pessimistic people.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And the optimistic people are the ones that are sitting
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: on the sidewalk having lunch with a friend and they
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: see an elderly couple walking across the street and they're
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: like super cute and they're just enjoying the simple things
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: of life. And the pessimistic person that you could be
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: having lunch with sees the smelly garbage.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Truck, like pull up and put the trash in the back.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: And how different are those two perspectives on life because
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: one person goes about their day and finds like the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: small joys and the simple pleasures, and the other person
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: is like, I don't know it sometimes maybe like the
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: classic cynical New Yorker and this is just the ways
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that you go about your living.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: So I'll tell you a story, and let me preface
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the story by saying that I am not suggesting in
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the least bit that you have to go to Alaska
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for more than a month to get this effect. But
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I will tell you this. So we get up there,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it's freezing cold, right. We have one day where we're
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: like twelve miles from camp and the sun is going down.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: We have to get back, and the way you get
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: back is across the tundra, which is I won't go
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: into detail, but it is the worst thing to walk
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: on in the world because it's kind of like half frozen.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: There's these big like balls of grass that are really
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: hard to walk on. And this was like pretty deep
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: into the trip, and we get back to the tent
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and it is, you know, it's like negative twenty outside,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and I'm freaking starving and I have a cliff bar
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and that's all I have for dinner, right, And so
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: now it's like when I get back into my normal life,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I can like stand, let's say, in a restaurant or
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: something like that, and the service might be crappy and
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: things may not be going my way, but I can
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, I'm warm, Yeah, I didn't have to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: walk twelve miles to get here. I'm about to eat
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: something that's a lot more delicious than a cliff bar
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be amazing. Things are totally fine.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: So I think the lesson is that, like sometimes we
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: need to, it's easy to get locked into a perspective
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: where we don't really see how good we have it.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: A lot of us, right, And I'm not suggesting at
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: all that the world doesn't still have problems that we
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: need to work on, but I think a lot of
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: people's every day problems are sort of first world problems and.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: We don't see that, right.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So if you have moments that push back at those
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: can give you a lot of perspective and that will
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: make you more appreciative of everything you have.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the same thought process behind the marathon, right.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: It's the commonplace of once you run a marathon, your
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: perspective on so many of the other hurdles that you
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: will have to overcome in your life completely shifts, and
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: you understand that, having perhaps succeeded and pushed yourself through
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: something that at times for sure felt one hundred percent impossible,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: that you are then capable of anything. So for you,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: in reporting this book and all the experts that you
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: spoke with and the research that you learned. Does anyone
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: have like a term for this? Is there something in
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the brain that becomes unlocked when we see ourselves getting
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: through these difficult hurdles.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: It's a good question.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So I part of the book, I talked about this
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: idea called masogi, and I met this guy. His name
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is Marcus Elliott. He super far out. He's like gone
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to burning Man since way back when it was like
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: super weird back in the day.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: How you know you're super far out is that you you're
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: burning me on veteran.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: One hundred percent.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: But he's also he went to Harvard Medical School, so
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: he's also very very smart, and he started this company
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: called P three and they have contracts like with the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: NBA in the NFL, and they do all this like
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: data movement modeling. It's all like very science and techie
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: like he's totally revolutionized sports science. But he also knows
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that like what improves humans, our performance, how we see
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the world can always be measured. So they do this
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: thing called masogi and it's like once a year they
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: will pick one really freaking hard thing that's usually outdoors,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and they'll go do it to see if they can
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: do it. And there's only two rules. Rule number one
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it's got to be really hard, which they define by
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: saying you have a fifty percent chance of finishing it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Rule number two is that you can't die. So pretty
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: straightforward rule number two. And they've done things like get
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: an eighty five pound boulder and walk it five miles
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: beneath the Santa Barbara Channel, so they like dive down
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: ten yards, the next guy goes down all kinds of
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: just kooky challenges. And the idea is what they're mimicking
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: is when you look at like all cultures, like older cultures,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: people usually had to go through a rite of passage. Now,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the idea of a right of passage is that you
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: as a human are at point A, but we need
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you in our tribe or whatever it is, to be
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: at point B. How to get you to point B,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: We're going to like send you out in the wild
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: to do something hard. So you look at all these
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: different cultures. There's things like the Massai would do lion hunts,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you have oboriginal tribe would do walk about all kinds
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of different stuff. And while you're out there in this
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: sort of middle grade of challenge, you're like, I don't
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: know if I can do this. You have these moments
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: where you're like, I'm gonna quit.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna quit.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I can see my edges coming up, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to quit when I hit that edge. But
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: then you step over it and you keep stepping, and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: then you look back and go, well, I thought my
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: edge was right there, but I'm beyond it. So like
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I sold myself short. There where else in my life
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: am I selling myself short? You know, I think that
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: humans have way more potential than we realized. So by
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: doing something like that, doing something hard, whether that's this
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Kooki masogi thing this guy does or a marathon when
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you think you really can't do it, we learn a
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: lot about ourselves. And there's some like evolutionary machinery that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: really gets triggered. And I think that, you know, our
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: natural environment used to show us these sorts of challenges
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: all the time because life was tough. We had to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: do things like hunt and gather and you know, move
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: great distances. But nowadays we don't really have that, So
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I think we do need these sort of moments that
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: push back at us and teach us something about ourselves.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: For the person who finds themselves constantly underestimating themselves or perhaps,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: as you said, selling themselves short. What advice do you
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: have for them to help them push through that hurdle.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: First of all, you're totally normal, so if you think
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: about as humans evolved, it would make sense there would
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: be a survival benefit to be the type of person
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: who goes, I don't think I can do that. So
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: if something were to come your way, you're like, I'm
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: not touching that. It's a little too risky. But if
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: you are thrown into that situation to actually have an
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: outsized ability to complete it, right, So we there was
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: an advantage to not thinking you're capable of something, but
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: actually being capable. If humans would have been the opposite,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: if we were like, hell yeah, I can do that,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and then we get out there and it's just like
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: we suck, Like we would have died off, right, So
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I tell you that to basically say you are capable
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: of a lot more like we are not far removed
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: from the people of our past. And you know, our
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: ancestors used to exercise fourteen times more than us. It
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: wasn't abnormal for them to have to run twenty miles
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in any given day like we have this on board,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: we just don't want to use it, and there is
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a good reason for that.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: And then in all of your reporting, was there anything
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: else that really took you by surprise?
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: So I went to So I'm up there hunting, okay,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: backcountry hunting, and I had never hunted before, and I
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: was super reticent about hunting because I'm like, it was
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: it's weird because like I eat meat all the time,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and yet I'm like, I don't know if I actually
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: want to engage in that, so I won't go into
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the details. But I end up hunting, like I still
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: have meat in my freezer. But it got me thinking
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: about the life cycle. And in the West, I think
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: we don't want to think about or acknowledge the fact
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: that one day we are going to die. And you
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: can see this in our funeral system, where like when
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: someone dies, we sort of make them look as youthful
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: as possible, and then we sort of, you know, have
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: this viewing and then they're in the ground and then
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: we're told, you know, keep your mind off it.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Go do something to take your mind off it. Even
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: our food system, right, It's.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Like our meat is manicured in such a way that
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: we're not reminded that came from a living thing. So
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I end up traveling to Bhutan because they have a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: very different relationship with death than we do in the US.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: People in Bhutan are instructed to think about death at
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: least once a day. A lot of their art and
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: cultural stuff revolves around death. And I talk to this
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: this guy who's super high up in Buddhism there, and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: it was it was a total trip because he lives
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: in this like cliff side shack up this total rutted
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: out dirt road. And my driver you have to have
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: a driver there. We're in a smart car essentially, and
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: so my driver like Baja five hundreds this thing up
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: this dirt road and I get to this shack and
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: it's like I kind of have to go door to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: door and it's very basic. And I open this drape
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and like there's this big statue of the boot and
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: there's like this incense smoke in the air, and like
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: this guy just like turns to me and he's like hello,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you know, just like oh my god, this is like
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the gangly westerner has come to see the Guru. But
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: we talked for a handful of hours and he talked
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: about how in the West we just don't want to
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: acknowledge the fact that, you know, one day we're gonna die,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: But once we actually do, that changes our behavior because
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you realize, like this ride is
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: going to end, and people naturally become a lot more
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: appreciative and it helps you sort of figure out, like
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: what am I doing with my time? Helps you become
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: more compassionate as well, because if I know that, like
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: you know, one day this ride is going to end,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and someone annoys me with like a snarky email, like,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna get worked up. I'm just gonna
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: be like, hey, whatever you know helps me make better decisions. Now,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: this is very uncomfortable thought, of course, it's like, oh man,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that is heavy. But on the other side of that,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I think your life improves and there's you can find
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: some happiness there.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: And it's interesting because Bhutan is.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Even though they're like totally low on the development rankings,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: they always rank as one of the world's happiest countries.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I mean I probably needed to take that perspective last
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: weekend when I was like attempting to put up vinyl
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: stick on wallpaper.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Wow, you would have thought. You would have.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Thought the world was ending when this was going nowhere
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: near as easy as they make it look like in
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: all the videos. I was like on the floor. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: FaceTime my dad. I've got like mess garrow on my face.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: He's like, what's on your face? I'm like, I've been crying.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I can't get this wallpaper up.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: And then I'm like, wow, it's just some stick on wallpaper.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: We're fine. We're fine.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Such an interesting perspective and such a really important lesson
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: to take away, just understanding that these moments of discomfort,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: they come and they go, and that we have the
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: opportunity to either embrace that and kind of harness that
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: and work through that, or we can be the only
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: thing that holds ourself back right totally.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: And on the other side of that comfort is usually
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: some sort of improvement in body, mind, spirit.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: All that good stuff. Michael, How do the hurdlers keep
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: up with you? How do they follow along with you?
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Give me all of the information.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: So my book that we're talking about is called The
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Comfort Crisis. It's available wherever books are sold. I have
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: a website, Eastermichael dot com. And then I'm on Instagram
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: at Michael Underscore Easter.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily Body at Hurdle Podcast, Another hurdle conquered.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.