Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 27: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 5 - Starting the Process For Both Partners

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27: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 5 - Starting the Process For Both Partners · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey, y'all, it's good to be hanging out with you.
0:02
I wanted to let you know about in today's episode, we're going
0:05
to be talking more about the full disclosures.
0:08
And specifically I want to give you a heads up that the
0:11
conversation's going to be around what actually a Full
0:15
disclosure looks like, what preparation goes into it from
0:18
the, the person did the betraying, what they're going to
0:21
be doing, what that process looks like.
0:24
And then also many people ask a question of, I think I can do
0:28
that by myself and what is taken off their plate by involving
0:32
somebody else professional like a therapist or a coach through
0:35
the process. But the pressure the really is
0:40
relieved from that person of having to hold all that on their
0:42
own and why that professional is guiding that and what guiding it
0:46
looks like. So looking forward to seeing
0:49
what this brings up for you. And always, please reach out as
0:54
you have questions about what you hear.
0:59
Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
1:01
I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
1:04
in the space today. What we're going to be doing is
1:06
diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
1:10
authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
1:12
about a single action or a moment.
1:14
It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
1:18
the rich connection and meaning. That our life has to offer.
1:21
So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
1:23
regular listener, know this. What you're building here goes
1:27
beyond a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
1:29
change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
1:33
your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
1:35
fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
1:37
So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
1:42
Hello, everyone, and welcome. Thanks for joining us.
1:45
As we continue our conversations and education around full
1:50
therapeutic disclosures, we're going to talk in a little bit
1:54
more detail about what you can expect when you show up with a
1:58
choose coach or therapist. And you say, OK, I'm ready.
2:02
OK, maybe I'm not ready, but I think I want to be ready or I
2:05
want to try to be ready. We want to go forth, we want to
2:07
do this. What does that look like?
2:09
What do those steps actually look like?
2:11
We're going to start with what that might look like for the
2:14
betrayer. So if you are the one in the
2:17
relationship that did the betraying and you have agreed
2:21
you're willing to go through this process and give Full
2:25
disclosure, full truth to your partner and you show up and you
2:29
say, OK, what does a Steven frickin look like?
2:31
What do I do? What's the first step?
2:33
We're going to go through that with you today.
2:35
I'm going to defer Luke to you since you work more often with
2:41
the betraying partner. I just going to leave it in your
2:44
court. Like when someone shows up and
2:46
says, OK, Luke think I'm ready, scared, but I think I'm ready.
2:50
What do you do? Yeah, absolutely.
2:52
So the betrayer and I are working together.
2:56
We're going to kick this thing off with the preparation piece,
3:01
which is OK. Emotional stability.
3:03
How am I feeling about this whole situation?
3:05
Be able to check in with those parts that are like, this feels
3:09
wrong. This feels like I shouldn't be
3:10
doing this. This feels like this is the end.
3:12
So we're going to check in on a part.
3:14
We're going to bring some stability, emotional into that
3:16
situation. We're going.
3:17
To have can you? Can you slow that down?
3:19
Like how? What do you say to that?
3:21
I feel like this is going to be the end.
3:22
This feels wrong. This feels like I'm just going
3:25
to hurt them more. How do you respond to that?
3:27
Yeah, just validating that. Just validating just that how
3:33
horrible it feels to let go of that piece of if I go here, it's
3:40
going to be the beginning of the end, which sounds weird.
3:43
That's a stabilizing experience, but it is to go, how scary is
3:50
this? And then as soon as we do a
3:52
little bit of that and there's some techniques inside of that,
3:54
some grounding exercises, techniques we go through, then
3:58
that person tends to go, OK, connect back to my values, the
4:02
why, why am I doing this? Then we can get into the why.
4:05
Does that answer your question, Alana?
4:08
Yeah, yeah. I think maybe what I was hoping
4:11
for is even like speaking to those people who are listening
4:15
right now who are literally this second having those same
4:19
thoughts and fears. Like maybe can you validate
4:23
them? Because I know that there's
4:24
people listening to this, that their partner has said, I want
4:28
this. And they're like, OK, you know,
4:31
I want to save my relationship. But every part of me is
4:34
screaming, what the heck are you even thinking?
4:38
Why would I do this? Oh, and I I can and I would you
4:43
be open to talking to them because I love when I hear you
4:46
talk to them because you're actually the betrayed.
4:49
I do it. But do you mind talking to them?
4:52
Yeah, for sure. And what's interesting is
4:55
usually when I have somebody who has betrayed their partner and I
5:00
am working with the partner who's been hurt and then is
5:04
healing, I will take time to always go meet the person who is
5:08
doing this. And the very first thing that
5:11
I'll say in this, with all sincerity, is the fact that you
5:15
are considering doing this and stepping into this truth takes
5:19
courage and it takes bravery. And I am really proud of you for
5:24
being willing to do this. And I have to be sensitive with
5:28
this because as a betrayed partner, to have anyone take
5:32
time to slow down and validate the person who's hurt me.
5:36
That can be really painful, but it doesn't change the fact that
5:41
they are choosing to be honest in this way in front of these
5:45
people. And it is terrifying and it is
5:47
scary. And so it takes courage to do
5:51
that. And I respect this step forward
5:53
that you're considering. And so I do just like you, Luke,
5:57
I validate that we're asking you to let go of the outcome.
6:01
We're asking you to step fully into all of the fear and all of
6:06
the discomfort and to look at your shame and move forward
6:10
anyway. A because that's helium for you,
6:13
and B, because that's helium for your partner.
6:15
And both of you need and deserve that healing.
6:19
Yeah. Thank you for saying that.
6:21
Well, I'm glad that you said that too, because I you're a
6:23
couple, a couple who's stepping into this process is trying to
6:27
salvage their relationship. And so even though there's all
6:31
of this hurt and layers and layers of pain, underneath is
6:36
the hope and desire of love being restored.
6:40
And so I think it is important for those who are stepping into
6:45
this and especially just as a company, like people that come
6:48
to choose, I do feel like it's important to reiterate and speak
6:55
publicly about how we really view both partners.
7:01
And so I concur with what you're saying there, Alana.
7:04
It can be easily assumed that if I'm working with a betrayed
7:07
partner, that when I get in front of the betrayer, I have
7:12
daggers or I'm like, you suck or I can't believe you did this
7:16
because I've heard everything that you've done to her.
7:18
It can be easily assumed that that would be my positions as
7:23
working with betrayer's partner, but it's not at all how it goes.
7:29
There's a deep level of humanity that I hold for all peoples and
7:36
professionalism and a deep understanding of like used to
7:41
use that word, bravery, bravery and courage that it takes to
7:44
lean in to truth, to lean into vulnerability, to lean into
7:49
something like this. So I'm glad that you slowed that
7:52
down and brought that up. I didn't think about that
7:54
before, but I I feel like that is really huge to publicly state
8:00
as a company that this is how we approach it.
8:02
This is really how we think. And even though, as you
8:05
validated, it could be triggering to a betrayed partner
8:08
to show any type of understanding or whatever word
8:13
comes for you, like warm, but whatever you feel like is being
8:17
given to this betrayer. I also validate how that can be
8:21
triggering. And like I was saying.
8:23
Before. I do believe that underneath all
8:26
of the layers of that pain and hurt is love.
8:31
And if we are helping you facilitate your journey towards
8:36
restitution and reconciliation, then I think that the level of
8:40
respect for what you each are doing must be present in the
8:46
professionals you choose to help facilitate this for sure.
8:49
Absolutely. So we get that groundedness,
8:52
that emotional stability in place.
8:55
What we'll do is we'll walk through and give them what all
8:59
of a sudden starts to make sense, which is like, oh, I
9:01
don't have to just show up and come up with a whole bunch of
9:04
history because I can't remember this all a process.
9:07
So just want to introduce you to that and let you know a little
9:09
bit more about it. Those that are listening.
9:12
So the first thing we do is we start to talk through and go
9:15
through the tools and resources that are now available to them.
9:19
It's an online it's in something we call Portal.
9:21
I'll introduce him to that portal and what it will do is it
9:24
will start to introduce things like the template for the
9:28
experience, which is OK. We go through series of
9:32
different types of behavior and instead of having to comb back
9:35
through all of time, we'll go through different types of
9:38
sexual behavior and we'll go does this apply?
9:40
Does this apply and go through and help on gain understanding
9:43
because a lot of times it's like I didn't know that one matters
9:46
or I didn't even know what that was and we do some psycho
9:50
education slash. Does this apply when we go
9:52
through those one at a time? And then what we also do to
9:56
build out the disclosure is the betrayed actually has filled out
10:02
and and needs assessment. And what we'll do is we'll go
10:06
through and build in what they want to know in the disclosure.
10:11
They will go through and understand what the needs are
10:15
for the disclosure of like I want to know frequency, I want
10:18
to know types of behavior, I want to know who, if there was
10:22
other people involved. So we'll go through and make
10:25
sure we are in alignment and understand what's going to go
10:27
inside of that. And what we'll also do is
10:33
understand, and I mentioned this before the template, which is
10:37
how I build all this in because for example, with my ADHD, I
10:41
need to be slowed down through the process.
10:43
Say, OK, let's tackle this now anyway, so that's what we'll do
10:46
in preparation for the disclosure.
10:48
In what It's interesting, I don't know if this is a good
10:50
analogy or not, but picture something that you really want
10:53
to do, like spring cleaning or, I don't know, clean out a closet
10:57
or maybe a garage, something you only get to every once in a
11:00
while. You hate it, but as soon as you
11:02
start a day into it, you're like, oh, this is what I was
11:04
supposed to be doing. And it feels good to get
11:06
started. And that's typically what I get
11:08
is I don't know where to start. And then you get started.
11:11
It's like, OK, now I'm gaining some momentum, the pressure
11:14
starting to become lessened as we're walking through it.
11:19
When I imagine psychologically speaking to it's once you get
11:21
your brain in that space and that mode of digging up truth
11:25
and putting timeline together and looking at your behaviors
11:28
and really being present in that, then a lot of those of you
11:32
who are worried about am I going to remember everything or am I
11:35
going to leave something out? There is something to be said
11:37
about putting your brain in that space and things will start to
11:41
come, which is why the intentionality matters.
11:44
If you're my friends half assing this, then the likelihood of you
11:48
missing something is present. But when we've seen over the
11:51
years, betray partners do this and they they are putting the
11:55
time and the effort, they're coming up with stuff left and
11:58
right. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh yeah.
11:59
Because that the way that it works in the brain.
12:03
What I see in this process too is when you're doing a
12:07
disclosure that's a couple months out as you're doing this,
12:11
like you said, Amy, stuff will come up and you remember stuff,
12:15
but then there's processing that comes up around that.
12:18
So it is. Not uncommon to have shame
12:21
responses come up as they're preparing for the disclosure.
12:23
It's not uncommon for people to have relapses preparing for the
12:28
disclosure. And if you hear that and all of
12:30
a sudden you have the massive panic, it can be scary because
12:34
when we've spent so much time, I don't want to think about it.
12:36
I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about it.
12:39
And then now we're going to make space and think about it, which
12:41
we need to do, which is a healthy part of moving forward
12:44
and processing, but it will stir stuff up.
12:48
So even part of our process is creating a relapse prevention
12:52
plan. And what do we do if that
12:55
happens as we're preparing for disclosure because that's not
12:59
been heard of. And so it is really important
13:03
that we take this with eyes wide open of those potentials, but it
13:09
gives us this opportunity to process as we go.
13:13
When we do a Full disclosure in an intensive, that's something
13:17
that we have to notice and there's pros and cons.
13:21
If you do a disclosure where you're preparing for it for a
13:24
couple months, you come and we give it versus you fly in
13:29
somewhere and we're doing disclosure prep from start to
13:31
finish and giving it in like a three day window.
13:35
You lose some of that deeper level processing that you would
13:39
get over the few months, which that processing can happen in
13:42
the months following, but you lose that.
13:46
One of the benefits you gain is when you are away from your
13:50
everyday life and you are in this nonstop in an environment
13:55
that feels very safe and that's all you have to focus on.
13:59
You can't dig deep in a different way.
14:01
And so there's pros and cons to however you do the disclosure.
14:07
But I say that because you do have options on how you move
14:11
forward. But we give you this guidance
14:14
and this structure. And even, Luke, you mentioned
14:16
the template. That template has on it.
14:20
OK, here's where you put your history timeline.
14:23
Here are some of the things we need to make sure we're doing on
14:25
there. We're not writing a narrative.
14:27
It's not storytelling. We're not painting a picture.
14:30
We're giving facts. We're talking about frequency,
14:33
we're talking about when, where we're being specific.
14:38
If we need to have ages included, we put ages, we put
14:42
timeline of where this was, of where you were in your job or
14:46
your career, where you were in your relationship.
14:50
Those are all included in the timeline.
14:53
But then even with that, we also include finances spent.
14:58
We include types of emotional abuse that was used to protect
15:04
the acting out behavior. We make a list of lies that were
15:08
told to facilitate the lying and the hiding.
15:13
I want to highlight real quick how that is because I have met
15:17
with multiple clients who have done a quote disclosure and that
15:22
has not been included and it is still something that their brain
15:26
loops around or wishes they had some closure to or
15:29
acknowledgement of. So I just wanted to highlight
15:31
that that is something that I am proud of that we do.
15:34
That's not often done so. Part the emotional abuse.
15:37
Yeah, acknowledging abuse of behaviors and destructive
15:40
behaviors that hide and hid the the acting out.
15:45
So you'll notice, Alana, like you just rattled off like a
15:49
bunch of different things. So how in the world would you
15:51
capture that if you were doing that by yourself, right?
15:54
That's when I highlight there is that needs to be guided me as a
15:57
professional. You're here with me.
16:00
I'm guiding that process to uncover the different types of
16:03
abuse, to be able to uncover the different types of acting out
16:06
behaviors, frequency, duration, names of people as appropriate.
16:11
Putting that into a timeline. There's so much, so much that
16:14
goes into it. In like that, like the names,
16:17
there are times where we will use a name because it is
16:21
important if you know the person, we're going to use their
16:23
name. But if you don't know the
16:25
person, unless the partner has specifically asked for a name,
16:30
we do not use a name. Because now every Jennifer that
16:33
you'll ever meet becomes a triggering name and there's a
16:37
million Jennifer's out there. So little details like that or.
16:43
I just think about. The amount of full disclosures
16:45
from where it starts, when they first say, OK, I'm done, look at
16:49
my timeline and then they go through it with their coach or
16:55
their therapist who is already working with them and says, hey,
16:58
include this, maybe not this. Then it goes through who's
17:01
working with the B trade partner.
17:03
And when we come through it, that Full disclosure, our brain
17:07
is thinking what is going to be harmful and what is going to be
17:10
helpful. And so if there are harmful
17:13
pieces of information, like, for example, somebody put, yeah,
17:16
because I really like the color red on other women, I was like,
17:20
that's not helpful. It's not because now any woman
17:24
ever who's wearing red becomes a potential trigger for this poor
17:27
woman. And so that's not helpful
17:30
information. And so we then go through with
17:33
that lens, so from where it starts to where it gets, where
17:37
it is actually ready for the partner, where it's thorough,
17:40
it's complete, it is detailed to the level that she needs it.
17:44
But it is not going to create this moving her brain that needs
17:49
to and wants to relive it over and over and over again.
17:52
That's a really complex process that we do not want somebody who
17:58
has spent their life in hiding, using that brain that's still
18:02
healing, using that by itself to come up with all of this.
18:07
Right. And the part I wish you all
18:10
could just have a front row to the amount of back and forth
18:14
like Alana and Amy and I have through this process so much
18:18
because all I really want the person that did the betraying to
18:20
do is show up and brain dump, like just brain dump.
18:23
Just give it to me. Let me support you and help you
18:26
in that. And then we will guide you
18:28
through that process. So the bottom back and forth,
18:31
it's there's a lot that's about a good way, hours and hours and.
18:37
I want to validate how that could be frustrating to see the
18:40
betrayer when we are asking them to go back and redo this
18:47
section. There's blame shifting in there.
18:48
I need you to go back and I need you to redo this section.
18:50
This isn't helpful. I also want to just give you a
18:53
heads up like that can be really, really frustrating to
18:55
have to hear. You just gave it and now we're
18:58
like, for a lack of better word, nitpicking through it.
19:01
And so I want to prepare and just throw that out there.
19:04
That's possible. That's happened often when we go
19:07
through this. And I would just say, please
19:11
step into that process as well and take that as more additional
19:15
learning for yourself. We're doing it for a reason.
19:18
We're trying to help create and cultivate healthy thinking.
19:22
Like, I don't know which one of you said that, but if we're
19:24
bringing something to your attention, this is another
19:26
opportunity for you to go, oh, this is a healthier way to
19:30
approach or share or have empathy or be aware of my
19:34
partner. So it can be frustrating.
19:37
And I would just encourage you all to continue to learn from it
19:40
through the whole process. And we're doing it to protect
19:43
both of you. If I were about to.
19:46
Stick my foot in my mouth and my partner was going to get mad at
19:49
me and someone like went oh hey hold on a lot.
19:52
If you say that this is how it will probably come across.
19:55
Please stop me from sticking my foot in my mouth.
19:58
And so I do that to protect the person who is sharing in that
20:03
vulnerability, and I do it to protect the person who is
20:06
listening in their vulnerability.
20:09
Yeah, I what comes to my mind is I totally hear you, Amy.
20:13
And that's so right. There's men that are like, man,
20:15
I'm really trying hard to get this right.
20:17
And there's also a bunch of men that are like, thank you for
20:19
giving me some direction, Amy. I'll make sure I don't put my
20:23
foot in my mouth and Alana, so they're just the experience and
20:26
I was thinking about couples listening to somebody the other
20:29
day saying so grateful for a couple of therapists who self as
20:33
navigated learning how to talk. This is just another version of
20:36
this for the future like you're talking about, Amy.
20:40
Yeah. So all of that goes in like Part
20:42
1 of the Full disclosure, but we do for the person who is trained
20:48
to work their recovery, they have the Part 1, which was all
20:51
of that. Part 2 is creating a safety plan
20:55
and then Part 3 is the letter of restitution.
20:57
Luke, can you explain what you do with that safety plan?
21:02
Because I don't know of any other companies who are actively
21:05
doing a safety plan. Maybe you all will start doing
21:08
it when you hear this. And please do.
21:10
But yeah. Talk about that.
21:13
Yeah So what we build into that safety plans, he'll take his
21:16
history so he'll notice themes experiences and now since it's
21:20
all turned out and this is the beauty now I can build something
21:24
that's going to create safety for myself and my partner off of
21:27
my history. So what you'll build into your
21:29
safety plan of like my dailies so I recognize like orn isn't my
21:32
problem. That's the solution to my
21:33
problem. The problem is I don't know how
21:35
to get connection in a healthy way.
21:37
I don't know how to get feeling vigorous about life.
21:39
I want to tackle this so things that make me feel motivated.
21:43
I don't know how to get call and peace inside my body.
21:47
So there's daily things that are built in through a safety plan.
21:50
There's also things we call barriers, not like boundaries,
21:53
but we call them barriers, which are things that keep me from
21:58
understanding where I need to have locks in my life to keep me
22:01
from acting out. There are also in the safety
22:03
plan abilities to be able to see levels of behavior like what's
22:07
behavior that keeps me safe, what's stuff that's tends to be
22:12
close call behavior where it's my inner spherical behavior.
22:15
So what we'll do is we'll go through and also identify our
22:21
support network, our recovery capital and those people that
22:25
are going to help me on my journey.
22:29
That's not my partner that are going to help me stay sober and
22:32
and clean. So there are various things that
22:36
are created inside that safety plan.
22:39
So I don't just dump on my partner all these things that I
22:42
did that are crappy, but I also show up and say, hey, this is my
22:47
history, this is what I've identified as problematic and
22:51
this is what I'm going to do going forward.
22:53
So they are left with understanding of what this could
22:57
look like. As I'm listening to you, the
23:00
word that just keeps sticking out for me is the barriers.
23:05
Because I think as a partner, knowing that my significant
23:11
other were creating boundaries for themselves and having
23:14
barriers felt so much safer to me.
23:19
So I wanted to know, like what? There's different things where
23:22
it's like, I wanted to give you all the boundaries like don't do
23:25
this, do this, don't do this. But it is so.
23:27
Different when the person who has done the B train just like
23:32
you said, identifies them and then comes forward and goes,
23:36
look, here's the areas where I've run off the road.
23:40
Here's where I'm reinforcing, here's where I need to do all of
23:44
that. So Luke, do you mind just really
23:48
quick when you created that word barriers, you don't create the
23:53
word, but when you pulled that in instead of boundaries?
23:57
Will you just? Give the imagery around that
23:59
because that to me really resonated and it's something
24:02
that I want to retain for my clients.
24:04
Yeah, there's this thing for the whole time we've been in our
24:08
journey where men a weaponize this word.
24:11
And they say I need boundaries too.
24:13
Like my partner says they have boundaries.
24:15
When do I get boundaries? I'm like, OK, bear with me on
24:18
this. If you're the person that was
24:21
betrayed, yeah, you need boundaries, but in a way
24:23
different way. You need boundaries within
24:26
yourself to keep you from acting outside your values.
24:29
So let's give it a different word so we stop triggering the
24:32
heck out of everybody. So call the barriers because
24:35
that's what keeps me. Just like I'm driving down the
24:38
road. If I'm headed down the road, I
24:40
have something that might be a white line that determines like
24:46
me between me and when I leave the road.
24:48
Or but if I'm next to a Cliff, it might be a really giant piece
24:52
of cement, a barrier that keeps me from running off the side of
24:56
the road. So I've established and learned
25:00
about dangerous part or problematic parts of my life
25:04
where I need barriers that represent the danger that's on
25:08
the other side, that keep me in the place.
25:11
Those are called boundaries. There are things that help us
25:12
keep safe, but I wanted to use barriers because of more.
25:15
I think accurately depicts the journey of somebody's overcoming
25:20
compulsive behavior to create safety.
25:23
And I think about like the lines on the road, no matter how far
25:27
you go down the road in your journey, we're still going to
25:29
have those lines. We're still going to have those
25:32
guides that tell us. Here's where the road is.
25:36
Because I think sometimes we have this idea that we work this
25:38
recovery and then we get to this place where it's like, OK, now
25:42
we can just off road wherever we want.
25:43
We don't need to worry about it because we're good now.
25:46
But really healthy living is we do have these guidelines that we
25:51
live by, our values, our morals, what we're OK with, what we're
25:54
not OK with. And we know that there are
25:57
certain places that we just have barriers that are just more
26:00
unsafe. But we keep no matter how far we
26:03
go down the road, there's still places with barriers.
26:05
There's always there are lions on the road because that's just
26:09
healthy living moving forward. Yeah, totally.
26:12
I hear women. I, I can hear women saying, but
26:17
I want to be the one to make sure, yeah, you can go look.
26:23
I want to be the one to make sure that he knows what those
26:25
barriers are, because I feel like I know those barriers more
26:28
than he does. And I just, I want to #1
26:30
validate that, and I have done this in the past where I will
26:34
say, tell me what you want in that safety plan.
26:37
What would help you feel safe. And I would give it to, it's
26:41
usually a Luke that I work with. So I would give it to Luke to
26:44
help use that as a guide because I do think that it's important
26:48
to take your partner's fears and worries into consideration when
26:52
you are putting together this safety plan.
26:55
But I don't want to take away from what Luke was saying before
26:58
is this is part of the process for you as a betrayer to come up
27:02
with and know this for yourself. And there can be a little collab
27:07
here as well. So I don't want to leave the
27:10
betrayed partner out of this. Your voice matters.
27:13
And so if there is something that you're feeling like, look,
27:17
in order for me to feel safe and know that he is not going to
27:20
drive off the Cliff, I would like to see this.
27:22
And that is communicated as part of the process so.
27:27
I love that you talked about that collaboration because
27:30
that's really what it is. And it's a discussion because
27:34
the partners who I'm working with, who have betrayed.
27:40
Who are actually? Really working their recovery, I
27:44
hear. I want to create that safety for
27:46
my spouse. I want to create that safety for
27:48
my partner and they still need to do the individual work to
27:52
figure out what is in their value system, what is their
27:57
areas of weakness, what are their levels of denial, and all
28:00
of those things have to be taken into account.
28:03
But that doesn't mean we go, hey partner, I got to do my own
28:06
work. Sorry you're over here.
28:08
We absolutely hear from them what you need as a partner for
28:14
your safety and take that into consideration in the process.
28:18
Completely. OK, so then the restitution
28:21
letter, this is Part 3 of the work that the person who's
28:26
working recovery does, They create a letter of restitution.
28:30
Luke what? Does that look like?
28:32
So it's a letter that speaks to the betrayed saying, after I've
28:39
done all this work, this is how I see that my behavior has
28:42
impacted you and your life. And the betrayed gets a chance
28:47
to hear from that person what they're seeing.
28:53
And it's not what they're seeing, but they get a chance to
28:55
see the whole picture. I usually give a disclaimer with
29:00
this. I don't know Amy, if you.
29:02
Didn't. Say I was like this, I always
29:04
do. OK, this so Amy, tell me how
29:07
your sounds different, but my disclaimer to my betrayed
29:10
partner is look, this gives us a snapshot of where they're at.
29:16
Very rarely will this ever you'll walk away going, Oh my
29:19
gosh, they get it wonderful. That's not the normal response,
29:24
but the normal response is I can see where they're at.
29:28
I can see they're on that level of trying to get and it gives me
29:32
more information and it still is healing to have the level of
29:37
what I have. We still have the impact letter
29:41
later for the partner after that, which then they will get
29:44
to see and understand even more. But I give that disclaimer that
29:49
we're not going in this as a partner looking to just go, Oh
29:52
my gosh, they understand every ounce of my pain because one of
29:55
the hardest places of my own personal journey was letting
30:00
myself actually, I don't know what the word is, no belief,
30:06
actually understand that. He will never understand it to
30:11
the level I experienced it. He's not capable of it.
30:14
He can try and it's important that he tries and it's important
30:18
he taps into his own pain to be able to have empathy for my
30:22
pain. But in the way that I
30:25
experienced it, he won't ever be able to experience that.
30:28
And I had to let that go. That takes radical acceptance.
30:32
It's a hard one. Yeah, that's a hard one for a
30:36
lot of my partners, so. It's funny.
30:39
I want to, I like want to ask both partners, like how do you
30:43
feel about that? Like you're here?
30:45
Like how do you feel about the betrayer making an attempt to
30:50
share what he thinks you experience or what he sees that
30:54
you've been through? Like how do you feel about
30:57
getting that? And then I'd like them to hear.
31:00
I'd like to hear the other part of that too.
31:02
Amy, does your sound any different of what you talked to
31:05
your clients about you're a disclaimer?
31:08
No, this is seriously what I say.
31:11
I really do want to prepare them.
31:13
I want to prepare them for disappointment.
31:15
I'll just say it because the expectation that I see tends to
31:19
be higher than what the reality allows.
31:22
And we have to remember that this is not phase three work.
31:27
This disclosure is coming in between phase one and Phase 2.
31:33
And so I see a lot of grief that comes when they receive this.
31:40
And grief is space too, Grief that your partner doesn't fully
31:45
get it yet and like you said, might not fully comprehend the
31:51
level that I know you betrayed partners are wanting.
31:55
That's why it's so important for you to do your own work and
31:57
validate yourself in such big ways.
32:01
So I look at it as this I prepare them for grieving.
32:08
So can I let me ask a question on behalf of the betrayer if I'm
32:13
not able to really get it anyway, even after all that
32:17
work, why would they want to even know it?
32:19
Why? If it's just painful to hear,
32:22
why would you want it? Why would they?
32:24
Some attempt is better than none and it is a reality check.
32:30
It does show the betrayed partner where their partner is.
32:35
And I think that's important to moving forward.
32:38
And I think it's important for the betrayer to step into that
32:44
space. And that's where the empathy
32:46
piece is, right? Really not cognitive empathy,
32:50
but really tapping into more of that affective empathy.
32:54
Can you go there? And I, and that's a huge part of
32:57
recovery is to have empathy. So I think this is one of the,
33:05
this isn't a tool to help facilitate some of that.
33:09
I think what we're trying to do here is prepare that it's not
33:12
going to, it doesn't always meet the level of expectation that I
33:16
see a lot of my partners have. And so I, I think what we're
33:20
trying to do here in this episode is just caution or
33:24
prepare you for that expectation.
33:28
But when I say grief also, that isn't a bad thing.
33:32
That's necessary and part of the healing journey.
33:35
I think it helps facilitate that, which is necessary.
33:38
Along the way. There's going to be a lot of
33:40
grieving. I remember this, we've mentioned
33:43
this throughout our whole series, is that going through
33:46
disclosure doesn't just wrap this all up and we're good now.
33:50
And like Alana, your analogy, now we can go off roading and
33:53
we're fine. This, that's not what this is.
33:57
Your emotions that are still going to probably be big and
34:02
hard are part of this experience.
34:06
But Luke, you started off with helping them establish and
34:11
assess their emotional stability.
34:13
So that's that window of tolerance.
34:16
Can we process these hard emotions?
34:20
Can we feel them? Can we learn to navigate them
34:24
where it isn't destructive anymore?
34:28
Yeah, The thing that keeps going through my mind is my attic
34:31
brain goes even through the disclosure process, like what's
34:34
in it for me? What's in it for me?
34:36
Like I'll do the disclosure because I heard that's what's
34:39
healing is about. And then we can get to healing.
34:41
And I really want to be in that relationship with them.
34:44
And, and I think the restitution letter caps that off.
34:48
Like what's in it for me? If I do it right, then that
34:52
means that they will feel better.
34:55
And ultimately that means that we'll be able to work this thing
34:58
out. What's in it for me?
35:00
Nothing. Nothing like the What's in it
35:04
for me is nothing. It's giving her a look inside of
35:08
my brain to see what this is all about.
35:12
Now we're going to shift gears a little bit and what this looks
35:14
like for the betrayed partner. So if you have been betrayed and
35:17
you show up and now you and your partner are working towards this
35:20
disclosure process, what does this?
35:21
Look like for you. And I, I think the first thing
35:25
that will cover like what Luke was saying is the emotional
35:29
regulation. We got to work through managing
35:34
some big triggers, getting you into that window of tolerance
35:37
and staying there a little bit longer than maybe you have it
35:41
before when you have a lot of triggers that are happening.
35:45
It's not often in my work with clients where they're, we are
35:50
creating a little bit more separation through this process
35:53
to give more of that stability. It can be really easy to be
35:58
activated knowing that your partner's coming up with all of
36:00
this truth and it's there. It can stir up a lot of stuff.
36:04
Really working with my partner on getting that emotional
36:08
regulation, having them take care of that with support, other
36:12
resources, managing those triggers with what they can
36:16
control. And so that's a huge piece
36:19
because got to be able to hold that space to hear some pre
36:24
activating information. So learning coping skills and
36:28
tools to help with that is where we start.
36:32
Anything additional on that one Alana, before I move on?
36:35
Sometimes it will feel as AB trade partner like I'm not doing
36:39
enough working towards the disclosure because a lot of my B
36:43
trade partners can be very task oriented.
36:45
Yeah. And when we're doing emotional
36:48
regulation and working through the triggers and getting your
36:51
body regulated and grounding, sometimes I can feel of like,
36:55
no, I should be like creating some kind of list or I should be
36:59
like, give me the the tasks, which is all very cognitive.
37:04
The type of work we need to do with starting is that emotional
37:08
regulation. And so I just validate those
37:12
cognitive parts of you. That's like, no, give me the
37:14
checklist. I need to go on to the next
37:16
things. Sometimes this part of it can
37:19
feel like you're not doing enough, but it is exactly what
37:22
we need to do. That's my number one focus
37:25
overall with the B trade Partner is preparing.
37:28
Them and their. Bodies to be able to hear all
37:32
this information and be able to actually metabolize it, to hear
37:36
it. We were talking about full
37:38
disclosures in our training meeting at Choose, and somebody
37:43
said even if you've had a Full disclosure, if it was done
37:47
poorly, your body would have been so dysregulated that your
37:51
ability to metabolize all that information would be totally
37:55
different than if you redid it the right way.
37:58
And heard it. In a safe environment and was
38:01
able then to process it, your body would be able to move
38:05
through that so much better and differently.
38:08
And I just thought that was such a great insight.
38:11
It's a completely different experience.
38:13
And the other thing that the reason why I focus on this and
38:16
and I love that you brought that up, Alana, because yeah, it can
38:18
feel very frustrating and I've heard that articulated before.
38:21
But one of the reasons why this is important is when you can
38:26
shift your focus from your partner and what they're doing
38:29
as part of the disclosure and on to you and paying attention to
38:33
your triggers and your ruminating thoughts and the
38:35
things that are coming up and activating.
38:37
This is actually what's going to help you prepare the questions.
38:41
A lot of times I'll get clients that'll say I don't even know
38:43
what questions to ask, OK, we need to start paying attention
38:46
to you and pay attention to your body and your questions and your
38:49
rumination and everything that's happening.
38:52
And guess what? We're going to have questions
38:53
come up from that. And I know we're going to get to
38:55
that in just a minute. There's a reason also with
38:59
emotional regulation that for me, I have in mind, because what
39:04
you're going to be noticing most likely is is activation and a,
39:11
oh, it's the word I want to use it.
39:13
I was going to say stuck. Just this sense of feeling stuck
39:17
or like you're you just come up against this.
39:20
Wall and you just keep. Hitting it over and over.
39:23
There's a question there that your brain hasn't been able to
39:27
find the puzzle piece to most of the time.
39:30
So there's a reason underneath it too, why I push for the
39:34
emotional regulation piece. All of us here want to validate
39:38
as a betrayed partner, the anger that can come up for you when
39:44
you are stepping into this process around anger around the
39:47
money. Anger around how long it might
39:51
even be taking for your partner to give you truth when you have
39:56
begged for it, pleaded for it, when they've told you they've
39:59
given it to you and you're realizing you they haven't.
40:02
The anger that can come up from that, the anger around the
40:04
money, I just really want to highlight and validate.
40:07
And can we all just speak to that for a minute?
40:10
That's a big deal. When my anger stage hit, I sat
40:14
in sadness, like in deep sadness, for a long time, and I
40:17
remember being confused that I wasn't angry.
40:20
When the anger stage hit, for me, it came in like a full blaze
40:25
of glory. It was intense.
40:28
But one of the big pieces of that was the why do I have to
40:31
heal? I didn't do anything wrong.
40:34
Why do I financially have to pay for this?
40:36
Why do I have to take time out of my day to go to therapy?
40:39
Why do I have to emotionally hurt?
40:42
There were so many pieces of it that felt so unfair and I was so
40:47
angry about. And for a lot of individuals, I
40:53
see women especially with this, but I see this in men too.
40:57
But in a lot of individuals, I see a lot of fear around anger,
41:02
that if I let myself be angry, either I'll always be angry or
41:06
I'll just become a bitter person, or I'll hurt somebody
41:10
either emotionally or physically with the anger.
41:13
And so there's a lot of fear around the anger, but the anger
41:18
gives us information on where we need to have healing.
41:21
And anger is those that those feelings moving.
41:25
The emotions are moving, and that's good.
41:28
An action? Emotion.
41:30
Yeah, mutually it's because you need some boundaries.
41:33
And so even if that is I'm angry that the finance that I'm paying
41:36
for this, then we probably need to strategize on how that looks
41:40
for you individually. I was working with a client who
41:42
I've actually done this several times where at one point they,
41:45
she decided my client to separate checking accounts and
41:50
she's like, I, I just cognitively, visually need to
41:54
not see that come out of my like my account.
41:57
And so we went with it. I was like, wait, let's separate
42:01
the accounts. And that money for the
42:04
disclosure is not, you're not going to see that leave because
42:07
it was too triggering for her. And so that was an agreement
42:10
that her and her partner made. So we can get creative with
42:12
that. But I just want to, I just want
42:15
to really validate that when you didn't make this rupture in the
42:19
relationship and now it feels like you're literally paying for
42:25
it. Yeah, there's anger.
42:28
And like you're saying, Alana, it's a valid emotion.
42:31
It's giving you some good information.
42:33
Maybe we need to do some more protecting or moving in a
42:37
different direction or creating some boundaries.
42:40
And anger is part of the grieving process.
42:43
And so if we can remember it is part of the healing.
42:47
And then we can again work through that, channel it.
42:51
It's a good thing, it's not a bad thing, but it can feel
42:53
scary, especially when you're engaging in all of.
42:56
This. Yeah.
42:58
The next thing we do is just go through what you need, what you
43:00
were needing from this disclosure, validating that for
43:03
you, getting clear on that for you.
43:06
Again, there's a lot of collaboration as professionals
43:08
through this process. So I'm communicating that with
43:11
whoever's working with the betrayer.
43:13
This is what my client needs. This is what their partner needs
43:17
to see and what they're hoping for.
43:20
And then from that, we start formulating the questions, what
43:25
you need to know, because remember, this is your right of
43:28
truth. What truth do you need?
43:30
What information do you need? And I'm there to help guide
43:34
that. Because again, like we talked
43:35
about before, there are some questions that it may feel like
43:41
you need to know. And yet sometimes it's going to
43:46
do more damage than good. And so having someone guide you
43:49
through that a little bit more inquisitively can help define
43:54
whether it really is a need or not.
43:56
Well, same way with what you do, Luke and Amy.
44:00
I'm going to guess you do this as we brain dump the questions.
44:04
If it's a question, you put it down get.
44:06
It all out. And I don't even care if your
44:08
question is full of explicits, because you need to just get it
44:13
out there. What you put down initially is
44:16
not what we're going to send over.
44:18
We're just going to get it all out.
44:20
Then together we go through it and we make sure that we are
44:25
bringing the questions that you need to know and that will also
44:29
be helpful and beneficial to your healing.
44:32
Because sometimes there's questions we want to know that
44:35
we go, absolutely, I want to know this.
44:38
And then as we start digging into it, we go, oh, there's
44:41
actually a deeper question than this.
44:44
And then we dig down and what's that deeper question for?
44:49
One time I had a client and she had eight different questions
44:53
all around the same theme. And I could tell we weren't
44:58
hitting like there was something in each of they were all similar
45:02
but different. And so we spent a whole session
45:06
on just those questions. And by the end, we got down to
45:10
there was this war fert that she had that happened in her
45:15
childhood, that was presenting in her marriage.
45:19
And that felt especially painful with the acting out behavior
45:25
that was at its core. And so then when we really
45:29
discovered what all the other questions were about, she was
45:32
like, no, forget all those questions.
45:33
This is what I want to know. Yeah.
45:36
And so that's part of the process with the partner
45:38
question is there's a lot of healing and processing that
45:42
happens in your own individual sessions around the questions.
45:46
Yeah. Or that can happen, doesn't have
45:48
to. So then those questions, once we
45:52
fine tune them, those get sent over to whoever's working with
45:56
the betrayer and those are incorporated and included in
46:00
that Full disclosure. So you're going to get not only
46:04
what your partner has laid out and worked through with their
46:09
coach, their therapist, they are going to now include all of
46:14
these questions. And that hopefully feels
46:19
comforting, validating. This is your truth.
46:21
You are going to finally get this and to know that those
46:25
questions are being handed over. And then it's another process,
46:30
Luke, of then going through and I've seen this happen a couple
46:34
times. You all with me have seen this
46:36
happen where they get the questions and it's like, well,
46:38
I've already answered that and they can be dismissed or looked
46:41
over. But how my partner asks the
46:44
question, it gets dated and answered, not just, well, I
46:50
already answered that in Section 2.
46:53
No, you're going to read the question that my partner asked
46:58
and you're going to answer it. There's something so healing in
47:01
that rather than just being told, well, I already answered
47:04
that. That's one of those things that
47:07
we've gone through and fine-tuned.
47:08
No, as unhelpful, So real care is, my point is there's real
47:13
care. And I'm going to use the word
47:15
like a sacredness around honoring your questions and
47:19
having them answered because this is what you need.
47:21
This is what you have a right to like we talked about in day one.
47:24
Can I just put really quick too? One thing I always tell my
47:29
partners is you don't have to think of every question because
47:35
this is not a one and done. We close the book and you can't
47:38
ask more questions. This is such a fear that comes
47:41
up with almost all of them is this.
47:45
I felt so much pressure with the questions because I have to
47:48
think of everything because this is my only opportunity to ask
47:50
questions. And that is not the case.
47:54
This is the beginning of many more conversations and probably
47:59
other questions that will come up later.
48:01
And even in the Full disclosure process, if a question comes up
48:06
outside of what you've already thought of, we will ask that
48:09
question and you'll get that answered.
48:11
And so we can let go of that. I have to ask everything.
48:16
I have to think of everything that you have that support team
48:20
to help. And that's why this is the
48:23
opening the door for the two of you to continue in talking and
48:27
communicating and learning how to ask and answer these
48:30
questions. Yeah.
48:32
I'm so glad you added that. It's so true.
48:33
And we've seen that every single time, additional questions
48:36
throughout that disclosure process, and we honor that.
48:40
The last thing that we do with the betrayed partner is write an
48:43
impact letter. So like we were talking about
48:46
before, Luke, you were saying how you help your person, the
48:50
betrayer, write a letter of impact.
48:53
This is how I feel like my actions have impacted you.
48:56
Now, as a betrayed partner, you get to give actual voice to how
49:00
this has impacted you. Yeah, that's something that's
49:03
really important. And we'll talk just a little bit
49:05
more about that. But can I ask you a question,
49:07
Luke? Yes, please.
49:09
I would like to hear how you prepare betraying partners to
49:14
receive that. Yeah, just it's all the work
49:18
they've done just, I don't know, say culminating, but separating
49:22
yourself from your behavior. You got a chance to look at all
49:24
out of it, recognizing that you're not your addiction.
49:28
And the reason is, is because when you can show up, when she
49:33
read that impact letter to you, not making it about you, just
49:37
being there, being present with her.
49:40
This is about her and her experience, not about you.
49:42
And Alana, you looks like you want to say something.
49:45
You know, I just want to clarify, when you say not make
49:47
it about you, you're saying that person's not making it about
49:50
their shame. They're not making it about
49:53
their pain with how hard it is for them to hear about their
49:56
choices. They're not making it about.
49:59
I'm so sad because I realized how much I hurt you.
50:02
But now it's all about them again.
50:05
Yeah, thanks for. Clarifying all of that aside,
50:08
and you're just being there with the person who's been betrayed
50:12
and hearing their experience. Cause emotional immaturity would
50:15
be, oh, I guess I am really a piece of crap.
50:19
Like man, like I really screwed it up.
50:22
That's making it about me, right?
50:24
That's so for somebody that wrote an impact letter and you
50:27
just sit there in your own stuff and go on like I'm so separate
50:30
yourself from your behavior as far as like I can be with you.
50:35
Recognize and take accountability for my actions
50:38
and hear what this has actually been like for you and not go to
50:43
my own self loathing. Right.
50:46
That's separating my behavior from myself in my ability to be
50:50
able to connect to you in that experience.
50:52
Thanks. And more often than not, with
50:56
where the person's at and their individual work who's working in
50:59
recovery, they need the help of their support person to do that,
51:03
to stay regulated, to stay present with their partner, to
51:06
be able to stay in the present moment and listen and hear needs
51:11
to have that support person outside of them.
51:14
Otherwise, it is so easy to get emotionally hijacked because
51:18
when a partner is putting their heart and soul into the impact
51:21
and that impact is intense, it's not easy emotional work.
51:26
So this is again another reason why I really beg and plead you
51:29
to have good, solid professionals helping you
51:32
through this process. And then if the betrayer has
51:35
done that work, it is, I hope this is an OK word to be
51:39
beautiful. Watching them sit together and
51:44
heard the betrayed share that experience and then connect
51:48
around that experience. Oh my God, like painful and
51:52
beautiful. And for the betrayed partner
51:56
with the Impact litter, we just don't sit down and say, here you
51:59
go. We actually have guides and
52:01
prompts and slow it down for you to help you think about the
52:05
different areas you've been impacted and help you find ways
52:08
that fits within the way that you work in your brain, works in
52:11
your personality, works to write a letter that works for you, but
52:15
we just don't send you off, OK? Just write all your impacts,
52:18
you're good to go. That's so overwhelming.
52:20
I hear that all the time. Like where do I even freaking
52:22
start? And so yes, I'm glad you brought
52:24
that up. There are guides, there's Proms
52:26
you can put in categories, whatever works for your brain.
52:29
I like having my partner start this fairly soon because it does
52:34
take time and I think there's so much overwhelm, a tendency to go
52:41
into overwhelm during this process.
52:43
Often been left off of process unfortunately because it can be
52:48
so overwhelming. If it's left off, it's almost
52:52
always the betrayed partner in my cake that would left it off.
52:56
And what I have learned as a professional, I used to give
53:00
them and I'd say take as much time as you need.
53:03
But what was happening is it would become painful to go and
53:08
open that up and then shut it and then open it and shut it and
53:10
Nope. And so now I give them two weeks
53:15
from the time that we start till the time you finish.
53:17
We do 2 weeks, which then allows you to stretch it out.
53:23
But we're not going to spend the next six months constantly
53:25
having to reopen the wound. And so that's something I do now
53:30
is we have a window of time with guides to do the Full disclosure
53:36
or the impact letter. And that has now changed to now
53:40
almost all of my women do impact letters or might be trade
53:42
partners. Yeah, yeah, because it just kept
53:45
getting dragged out. Because it's hard, but we'll
53:48
guide you. Hey, so I this there's a lot
53:54
there's a lot of pieces that go into it and a beautiful thing is
53:57
if you're the one going through it, you just can trust the
54:02
process. Find professionals that you
54:05
trust and who understand. And if you're willing to bring
54:09
your walls down and do this work, then you can be guided and
54:14
you can trust the process and then let go of the outcome.
54:19
And there's a lot of pieces to it and each of these pieces as
54:23
blocks to that healing. So what we'll cover next week in
54:27
full disclosures, it possibly will be our last one.
54:32
We will re air the episode with Jared Rockwell.
54:37
He's our polygraphic examiner that we use here.
54:39
He used to be a therapist. We did a wonderful episode with
54:42
him. We're going to re air that one.
54:44
So it's with this set and you don't have to go dig for it.
54:48
But then we're going to do an episode next week on why
54:51
disclosure is not the end and what do we do next?
54:56
That big now, what we did, all this work, and then where do we
55:01
go? So stay tuned for next week.
55:04
As always, as listeners, thanks for hanging out with us this
55:08
week. Luke, thank you for bringing
55:09
your expertise and we look forward to seeing you all next
55:13
week. Hi, this is Hallie Roderick with
55:16
Jews Recovery Services and I wanted to share with you a group
55:19
that I run called Empowerment After Betrayal.
55:21
And this is specifically for men who are experiencing betrayal
55:24
trauma due to infidelity and betrayal in your relationship.
55:28
And in this group, I strive to create a safe space where you
55:30
can show up and be authentic and connect with other men who are
55:34
experiencing the similar things. I provide tools and resources
55:37
along the way that will help you in your own healing.
55:39
And we meet every week on Mondays at 530 Mountain.
55:43
I'd love to have you join us if this is something that would
55:45
benefit you. And you can learn more about
55:47
registering by going to the show notes below or checking out the
55:49
information on chooserecoveryservices.com.
55:55
Hey, thanks for joining us today.
55:56
If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
55:59
with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
56:02
chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
56:06
what we can do is set up a quick conversation.
56:08
Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
56:11
unmask the authentic self.