Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (2/4)

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Talks to Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blunt penknife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Quicker. Well, welcome back to Hamster
• 0:40
  with a Blunt Penknife, the commentary podcast where, well,
• 0:44
  I've seem to have taken over introducing this episode because
• 0:46
  the person who should be introducing it is Joe Ford, the
• 0:49
  actual host. My name is Simon Moore and I'm
• 0:51
  the guest for this story that we're doing, which is the
• 0:54
  absolutely awesome, utterly spectacular terror of the
• 0:57
  Zygons. And we are about to look at
• 0:59
  episode 2. That was adeptly done.
• 1:03
  I was just taking a swig of water there.
• 1:04
  That's why you were taking over my duties, actually.
• 1:07
  I think given that you were interested in now the host and I
• 1:09
  am now the guest. Well look, shall we skip
• 1:14
  straight into Episode 2? The cliffhanger was so amazing.
• 1:16
  I think it's amazing it picks up.
• 1:18
  Let's go then. In 321, off we go.
• 1:23
  Is this is this your absolute? Blu-ray remote has worked.
• 1:28
  Sorry, it can be tricky at times.
• 1:29
  Is this your favorite title sequence?
• 1:31
  I know that's an obvious question.
• 1:32
  OK, I look. I think in high in trying to be
• 1:39
  objective about it. I think it is.
• 1:41
  I do love the season 11 time title sequence because I do love
• 1:45
  a John put We shaped Time Tunnel and that was because Planet of
• 1:49
  the Spiders episode two was the first episode I ever saw.
• 1:51
  So that was and then it took ages for them to go back and do
• 1:54
  another Pertwee again. So that was always the Pertwee
• 1:57
  title sequence for me in my head.
• 1:59
  But I I think I think for simplicity and and and and what
• 2:05
  the show represents. I think you can't get away from
• 2:08
  this Tom Baker title sequence because much as I love the and
• 2:11
  the music of the of the like the Davison era, it doesn't reflect
• 2:15
  the time travel correctly, whereas this this is that old
• 2:19
  fashioned time tunnel. Spiders two was your first
• 2:23
  Pertwee. Yeah.
• 2:25
  So I worked out it was after the I've subsequently worked out it
• 2:28
  was after the would have been season 16 being shown on the
• 2:33
  first broadcast for us and so that's 1979 and then they go
• 2:38
  back as they do to they were showing just the 625 line
• 2:41
  Pertwee's back in the day and so I caught the very end of that
• 2:43
  which was Planet the Spiders 2 because well just reasons.
• 2:47
  It was a it was AI was being minded by someone because mum
• 2:50
  and dad were at the Symphony or the ballet or something.
• 2:52
  And that's where I was introduced for the first time
• 2:54
  and literally I watched every episode after that.
• 2:57
  You must have thought every poetry story was a self
• 3:00
  indulgent chasing after that. Well, it was kind of interesting
• 3:05
  because they were able to explain the person I was
• 3:07
  watching it with was able to explain to me who all the
• 3:08
  characters were, and I used to. I remember getting confused
• 3:11
  between Lobton and and the Doctor because they both kind of
• 3:15
  had Gray hair anyway. My friend Mark Dodic was chilled
• 3:20
  to the bone by the fact that Sister Lamont looks very like
• 3:23
  his mother. He's Scottish as well, so every
• 3:25
  time he watches this he gets the chills that his mother's there
• 3:28
  murdering people and behaving in a sinister way.
• 3:31
  But at the risk of sort of looking at sort of gender
• 3:33
  stereotypes and especially back in that era, I mean, she should
• 3:36
  we, you know, be concerned that she has this kind of slightly
• 3:40
  lesbian look because she's got a very masculine haircut and very
• 3:43
  sort of waxed down here. And therefore because she's got
• 3:46
  that lesbian look, therefore she's evil.
• 3:48
  You know what I mean? It's a bit unfortunate.
• 3:50
  I don't know if they were thinking on those lines at this
• 3:52
  point though. Well, probably not, but who
• 3:54
  knows. Now we have to correct something
• 3:56
  we mentioned during the first episode because my my husband
• 3:59
  has informed us in between episodes that one flew over.
• 4:04
  The Cookies nest doesn't come out until November of 1975, so
• 4:07
  this would have been filmed before that would have been This
• 4:12
  would have definitely been filmed before they saw that.
• 4:15
  So it's quite impressive that they have a kind of a similar
• 4:17
  looking and styled character. The evil nurse, Yeah.
• 4:23
  Evil nurse, Yeah, but with that kind of almost same look.
• 4:26
  And otherwise the Zygon, I mean, look at the Zygon hands on this,
• 4:29
  on those dials. They're just so this way.
• 4:35
  It's so it's so refreshing to have the the monster hands be
• 4:37
  dextrous enough to be able to operate things.
• 4:40
  It's unusual. Yeah.
• 4:42
  When the doctor says that that he picked up his trip in a
• 4:45
  minute from a Tibetan monk, we suppose when we work with the
• 4:49
  doctor during the Abominable Snowman that this is what he was
• 4:51
  up to. Possibly.
• 4:53
  Well, remember, he'd already been to Dead Sin Monastery.
• 4:56
  Not dead. Is that Dead Sin Monastery?
• 4:58
  Yeah, yeah, he already been there and so.
• 5:01
  It's a a sequel. A sequel to something that we
• 5:04
  never saw Zygons. According to Philip Hinchcliffe,
• 5:12
  originally Douglas Canfield wanted like a psychedelic series
• 5:16
  of lights for this set, and somebody pointed out that no,
• 5:20
  that's going to look like a disco.
• 5:22
  We'll go with greens and Reds. I'm pleased they did.
• 5:28
  This, I mean, that's supposed to be Sister Lamont.
• 5:30
  No, that well, that's OK, But no.
• 5:31
  So no, we must make this planet. I mean just that.
• 5:34
  The mouth is just so brilliant and I hate to say it.
• 5:36
  Now looking at it on a large television, like upscaled for
• 5:40
  the screen, you can actually see the the the gap between John
• 5:44
  Woodnutt's mouth and the costume.
• 5:45
  But. Back in more, they clean up
• 5:47
  these productions. Simon, the worst it is.
• 5:50
  I'm sick. I'm, I'm sick of like looking at
• 5:52
  the Romans and seeing the fact that they've got like, you know,
• 5:55
  a black glad bag in the fountain, you know?
• 5:57
  It's the cyclorama in the mind rubber for me, which on VHS you
• 6:01
  could never see. That you could never light.
• 6:03
  Up the floor. But now the light of the floor.
• 6:05
  But now you can. So it's like, you know,
• 6:07
  sometimes bad resolution is is something to be thankful.
• 6:10
  For detail in that Zygon mask with all the veins on the head
• 6:13
  and things like that, like they really put some effort into
• 6:16
  that. Yes.
• 6:17
  And as we said before, it's been spritzed, it's wet, it's, it's
• 6:20
  got this moistness to it, which I don't know, why don't the, why
• 6:23
  didn't the 21st century Zygons have that kind of moisture to
• 6:26
  them? Do you know what?
• 6:27
  It's the model. Of the Zygon spaceship.
• 6:29
  Just a brilliant model, sorry. It's exactly the same as what
• 6:32
  happened with the Sontaras. Lynx had a very moist head and
• 6:36
  then with every subsequent story they got drier and drier and
• 6:39
  rubbery. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:40
  And also the lips had a sort of a moisture to them and and and
• 6:44
  there were bits of hair in places which made them look a
• 6:46
  bit gross and so on, like little just tiny Tufts of hair.
• 6:49
  Whereas, yeah, they're they're just like, you know, clean
• 6:51
  shaven there. Elizabeth Sladen says no
• 6:54
  autobiography that, you know, you can put on a costume and it
• 6:57
  basically the character's there, you know.
• 6:59
  Well, I think John Woodknoff's put on that costume.
• 7:02
  He embodies it, doesn't he? There's kind of no positions
• 7:06
  that he looks ridiculous. No, no.
• 7:10
  And that's how you do it. But it's it's it's, I hate to
• 7:12
  say it is acting one O 1. Regardless of how ridiculous the
• 7:16
  line is, regardless of how ridiculous the setting is, if
• 7:18
  you play it with conviction, you bring people with you.
• 7:20
  And this is what I keep going on about the suspension of
• 7:22
  disbelief is that you know, it's it's obviously you're watching a
• 7:25
  television program and back in the day, you know it's on a
• 7:27
  small set in the corner of the room, probably with slightly
• 7:29
  dodgy reception. And that obviously hides
• 7:31
  multitudes of sins, as we were just discussing.
• 7:33
  But you know it's the fact that everyone's believing it.
• 7:36
  So you believe it. As soon as they stop believing
• 7:39
  it, you you stop believing it. And so it just looks it just
• 7:42
  looks ridiculous If if they think it's ridiculous, you think
• 7:44
  it's ridiculous. And he and even look at this
• 7:47
  with Tom, Tom's got this bit of moisture like he's got he's a
• 7:50
  bit of whatever it is on his face like he's he's I don't know
• 7:53
  what it is but it's. Yeah.
• 7:55
  It's worth noting as well I've I've done enough of these sort
• 7:57
  of 70s stories now where people that watched them at the time
• 8:00
  that even though colour licenses came in in the early 70s, a lot
• 8:03
  of people were still watching this in black and white, right?
• 8:06
  And. I can only imagine that makes it
• 8:08
  even. Yeah, even like right up until,
• 8:10
  I think, Toby Haddock said he didn't go to colour until sort
• 8:13
  of 18 or something like that, so oh.
• 8:15
  Dear God, wow. OK.
• 8:17
  But beyond the times. But I can only imagine this is
• 8:19
  even more atmospheric in black and white.
• 8:21
  Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean that's why it was great
• 8:23
  you know seeing seeing some of those Pertwee's in the 86 run
• 8:26
  that we got here, things like Ambassadors of Death, Siderians
• 8:29
  and Terry audience and stuff. They're all shown in black and
• 8:31
  white and I still there's still a part of me that thinks
• 8:35
  Ambassadors of Death is so much better than.
• 8:37
  Black and white? Yeah, I'm the same with Invasion
• 8:39
  of Dinosaurs episode one. Exactly the same.
• 8:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's there for a reason.
• 8:44
  John Levine, have you met John Levine?
• 8:47
  I have. Two years ago now he came, he
• 8:50
  came out to a couple of conventions in in Australia in
• 8:52
  the 90s that we were organizing. He was a lovely, lovely where he
• 8:55
  is. He's still with us, isn't he?
• 8:56
  Yes, a lovely fellow. Absolutely lovely fellow and
• 9:00
  funny and funny because we used to when we were doing
• 9:02
  conventions in the 90s we we do these plays, these comedy
• 9:05
  players. I take absolutely taking the
• 9:07
  piece out of Doctor Who and we'd always get the guest to have a
• 9:10
  cameo in one scene. So you had Mary Tam come on with
• 9:13
  like the The Tracer to to discover that someone was the
• 9:16
  key piece of the segment of the key to time and John Levine came
• 9:19
  on and I was playing Patrick Troughton in in this play and it
• 9:23
  was absolutely hilarious did. Anybody film?
• 9:26
  That went with it so much. Yes, there are.
• 9:28
  There are I, I, I, I regret to say there are video copies.
• 9:33
  Once he goes out, put it, put it on Twitter.
• 9:35
  All right, Once this. He's so alienated in his early
• 9:43
  seasons. I know that's a weird thing to
• 9:45
  say, but you know Davidson, he went a lot more sort of
• 9:48
  naturalistic. Yeah.
• 9:50
  Yeah, he's unpredictable. That's what I.
• 9:51
  Like he's got the freakiness with the eyes and you know and
• 9:55
  and just that little movement with the neck and he's almost
• 9:58
  threatening the way he puts his hands up to a neck, but gentle
• 10:01
  and. Well, it looks like he's going
• 10:02
  to go and snap her neck, doesn't he?
• 10:04
  Yeah, yeah, it does. And then he mocks Mr. Benton by
• 10:06
  going, Well, why are you whispering?
• 10:07
  When are you starting? Why are?
• 10:09
  You whispering? That's kind of an an old gag in
• 10:12
  those kind of things. Why are you whispering?
• 10:15
  Oh, we get our first shot of the Scarasan head in a second, don't
• 10:18
  we? Coming down.
• 10:20
  With the googly eye, I, I I've got the I haven't got the
• 10:22
  updated effects on mines. Here we go.
• 10:25
  Oh no, this is the and again this.
• 10:28
  I mean this is what I imagined when I was like, you know, I I
• 10:31
  loved watching this story when it was you know in the in the in
• 10:34
  the sort of the winter time here.
• 10:36
  And so you could you could watch it like in the dark when it was
• 10:38
  a bit colder and you you might have some mist or something and
• 10:41
  and then you could it really added to the atmosphere of it.
• 10:45
  I love the show in the second where they're looking at the
• 10:49
  soldier, the soldiers been trampled by the Scarasan and we
• 10:52
  never get a look at him. And what's in my imagination is
• 10:55
  far worse than anything they could put on the screen.
• 10:58
  I really, I I think that's an effective way of doing horror in
• 11:01
  Doctor Who. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 11:04
  And there's that roof that you were so fond of in the first
• 11:06
  thing. It's amazing which allows them
• 11:08
  of. Course to have that.
• 11:09
  Shot. No, no, no, you're absolutely
• 11:10
  right. I'd never noticed it before and
• 11:12
  it allows the shot to be lower looking up at them because it's
• 11:15
  the it's from the perspective of of the Brigadier or huckle or
• 11:18
  whatever lying on the floor. And so it's that kind of thing
• 11:21
  that Canfield does. It's just it's not it's not
• 11:23
  showy, it's just it's just it's just it's just right.
• 11:28
  You you do a a run through of Doctor Who again?
• 11:31
  Yeah. And do a ceiling watch and you
• 11:33
  tell me how you say it's not me. Very few.
• 11:35
  Very few, I imagine. Very.
• 11:37
  Few. We are pointing and shooting in
• 11:38
  One Direction for the most. Part in One Direction, Yeah.
• 11:41
  But that's, I mean, that's sort of theatre really, I mean.
• 11:43
  Yeah. They're basically filming a
• 11:46
  stage play most of the time, particularly which.
• 11:48
  Does give it an intimacy. I especially love it in the 60s.
• 11:51
  Yes, absolutely. Now they can do with next to
• 11:56
  nothing but. What do you think about these
• 11:57
  similarities between Terror of the Zygons and the Android
• 12:00
  Invasion which DWN also spelt out in a around about the same
• 12:05
  time as when the kids watch this, the plot similarities.
• 12:09
  In terms of the duplicates thing, the duplicates aspect or.
• 12:13
  And the scene set in the pub, the bug there.
• 12:17
  True. There was.
• 12:18
  There was quite a bit when you when you looked at it in some
• 12:21
  detail. That's actually true and they're
• 12:23
  actually only cause thanks to this being shown as part of
• 12:25
  season 13 they're actually only a few stories apart aren't they?
• 12:28
  But yeah in fact maybe I even back in the day I saying
• 12:32
  confused is is too strong a word but I always had a close
• 12:36
  association between this story and an Android invasion probably
• 12:38
  for for that reason and and especially cause like the crawls
• 12:41
  base is kind of similar to this in look and feel and and they're
• 12:45
  kind of green rather than red but you know and you've got you
• 12:48
  know duplicates as we say but different oh look I don't know
• 12:53
  they didn't. Oh, the big twist.
• 12:55
  And that is that it's a duplicate Earth, isn't it?
• 12:57
  It's not really about the characters.
• 12:58
  That's that's the big twist there.
• 13:00
  Whereas here it's like it's that old Invasion of the Body
• 13:03
  Snatchers. Who do we trust?
• 13:05
  Yes, exactly. Brilliantly.
• 13:08
  Absolutely. I mean, there's even a judicious
• 13:11
  use of CSO in a minute when the Zygon turns into the K bar, and
• 13:15
  even that I don't think looks pony.
• 13:18
  No, no, it doesn't it, it's it's perfectly fine.
• 13:23
  I mean, you know, here we go. So cut to, cut to Harry so we
• 13:25
  can cut back to a clean shot. Well, that's because there's
• 13:27
  very little background there and there is fringing.
• 13:31
  There is. I mean, fair enough.
• 13:32
  There is fringing, but it's not the fringing that you'd have
• 13:34
  noticed on on like a dodgy. Oh, OK.
• 13:38
  You OK? You might have noticed that
• 13:39
  fringing around. And there's when a Zygon turns
• 13:44
  into a duplicate, their fringing is all part of the process.
• 13:47
  OK. Yeah, but look, that's that's as
• 13:50
  the CSO. Like if you compare that to the
• 13:51
  CSO in in the Green death for instance.
• 13:54
  Yeah, this is great. Oh.
• 13:58
  Yeah, beating Hall. You know, it's just.
• 14:05
  I do like the sort of investigative nature of the
• 14:10
  first two episodes of this. You know, the oil rigs being
• 14:12
  smashed, the the teeth marks in it, the signalling device which
• 14:17
  then leads to the scarasound attack in the dockside.
• 14:19
  It's like an A to B to C, but it does work.
• 14:24
  And and and this is, this is the kind of plot development that I
• 14:27
  miss about the new series. I mean, yes, we have two passes
• 14:29
  in the new series, but in most instances they're kind of two
• 14:34
  linked episodes, especially as as the series gets going, it's
• 14:36
  only something like the Impossible Planet or human
• 14:38
  nature where you get the kind of a or silence in the library
• 14:42
  where you get kind of a progression of events.
• 14:44
  And I think it just, it just makes you feel epic.
• 14:47
  It makes you feel like you're actually on a journey with them
• 14:49
  learning things rather than everything kind of being in this
• 14:51
  frantic rush, which it. Surprised you to know those two
• 14:54
  are two of my favourites in the new series as well.
• 14:56
  But then I'm a classic series fan, so yeah.
• 14:59
  Right, Ditto. But but I do.
• 15:00
  I I I'm not saying the new series is is not.
• 15:02
  No, no, no, but. But those are those are amongst
• 15:05
  amongst my favourites, they. Do get to the point very quickly
• 15:07
  though, don't know they're pre task because often does the work
• 15:10
  of episode one in the classic. Series.
• 15:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's just
• 15:16
  something to be said for this kind of, I mean, you see, I
• 15:20
  don't want to call. I mean this is not slow.
• 15:22
  I mean for goodness sake, I mean you watch A Heart or 6 past or
• 15:24
  something, you know, they are slow where, you know, they're
• 15:26
  just walking around a microscopic session Episode one.
• 15:28
  This is not slow, but it builds it it it it, it, it allows you
• 15:32
  to breathe and wonder what's going on and and work out.
• 15:36
  See, the thing that you used to do when you you'd go to school,
• 15:41
  you know, after watching an episode, even if it had been a
• 15:43
  repeat, is you talk to your friends about what was, what had
• 15:47
  happened and what is going to happen next.
• 15:48
  What do you think is going to happen next?
• 15:50
  And you don't get that opportunity anymore.
• 15:53
  And I think that's that's sad. You don't get that opportunity
• 15:55
  to think and pause and allow your imagination to take you to
• 16:00
  places that the story might not take you, but nevertheless, it
• 16:03
  it it, it inspires that imagination.
• 16:06
  You know what's sad? Because I I came in, oh, I need
• 16:09
  to talk about this. But I came in in season 26 and I
• 16:12
  only watched one episode and then the show went off air.
• 16:14
  So I've never had that oh, what's going to happen next
• 16:17
  conversation? Because I never do it with the.
• 16:19
  New series. Can we please talk about Ian
• 16:22
  Marta in this scene? Who has asked me to collect it?
• 16:26
  I mean brilliant. He he's so obviously a different
• 16:29
  character and you know it's not important.
• 16:31
  I mean just awesome. He's so good.
• 16:34
  I was so I wish he'd done longer I I his stories.
• 16:38
  I mean, I I said season 13 was a favorite, but actually season 12
• 16:40
  is probably is my favorite Finchcliff season because I love
• 16:45
  Harry and Sarah and the way it all works and and and the
• 16:49
  stories that they're in, it's just so brilliant.
• 16:51
  The trouble with that is there's two stories in 12 where he's
• 16:53
  just sort of shunted to the sidelines.
• 16:55
  I don't think he does a great deal in Genesis or in Robot.
• 16:58
  What the others? I think he gets a nice enough
• 17:01
  role. Well yeah, I see.
• 17:02
  I'm thinking of of Arkan Space and Revenge of the Simon which
• 17:05
  and it's great but even in Genesis he does do stuff he
• 17:08
  doesn't do as much as Sarah. But I think, I think Genesis
• 17:12
  though you you're so carried away by the other characters you
• 17:14
  know Nyder and Davros and so on. But but even I think even Liz
• 17:18
  Slayden doesn't get the the the biggest role in in Genesis
• 17:22
  outside of the the being captured by the Thales and
• 17:25
  climbing the the thing at the end of episode 2.
• 17:27
  I was about to say it's Tom's piece, but it's more Michael
• 17:29
  Wish's piece really, isn't it? It's.
• 17:31
  Michael Wish's piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:33
  Now the shots in a minute of him inside this barn in the shadows,
• 17:37
  looking out at her. Very scary.
• 17:40
  Now you know that these were edited, for it is by the sensors
• 17:44
  in Australia. So the sequences in the barn,
• 17:48
  which we're coming to in a minute.
• 17:49
  So I didn't. I only saw them for the first
• 17:51
  time once I got I think the DVD release because I still had an
• 17:55
  off air copy so I didn't. I didn't bother buying the VHS.
• 17:58
  So this is an extended version as to what you would have seen
• 18:00
  originally. Exactly.
• 18:02
  Yeah, what was taken out then? So we'll come to it and yes, so
• 18:06
  just as he's climbing up there, it's just a couple of sequences
• 18:08
  where he's menacing her with the with the pitchfork.
• 18:12
  So we just got well I, I explains this company
• 18:15
  clattering. Yes.
• 18:16
  And just that look on her face like the the sort of she's such
• 18:18
  a good actress in that she can portray look at.
• 18:20
  Him. That that terror, but not in an
• 18:22
  over the top way, yeah. So we we still got all that.
• 18:25
  And he's frightened and you're frightened.
• 18:26
  You're kind of frightened for him almost 'cause you can kind
• 18:29
  of you, you're getting across at the Zygon inside him.
• 18:31
  He's actually also frightened. Yeah, that's all Harry.
• 18:35
  We love Harry, you know. Exactly, exactly.
• 18:40
  And up the light as she goes. I think this is the scene that
• 18:43
  most explicitly does the Invasion of the Body Snatchers
• 18:46
  thing effectively because it's one of our friends attacking and
• 18:50
  trying to kill one of our other friends.
• 18:52
  Other friends? Exactly, Yeah.
• 18:54
  And in a really sort of visceral way, with a pitchfork.
• 18:58
  And again, listen to that music the the flutes or whatever it
• 19:01
  is. It's just so eerie and not not
• 19:06
  in your face. What I love about what Douglas
• 19:08
  Canfield does, So what? We got so we got from that shot
• 19:10
  there where he's just running towards her with the pitchfork
• 19:13
  and then all this big bit here where he's where he's shoving it
• 19:16
  in her face and and all that goes in his original Australian
• 19:20
  and then it just goes to him running and falling off the the
• 19:23
  top. So it's just about is that 4
• 19:25
  seconds or five seconds there that we that we didn't get it
• 19:27
  still all worked. It's not one of the cups that
• 19:29
  looked ridiculous and the fact that he's a Zygon where he
• 19:31
  falls, you know, when he's at the at the bottom on his back.
• 19:35
  Brilliant. What's so effects about the
• 19:36
  direction there is? Harry is attacking us because
• 19:39
  he's coming straight at the camera, yeah.
• 19:42
  Exactly. Again, simple choices, but but
• 19:47
  not showy, but just logical to get across the terror.
• 19:50
  Get across the fear. Get across the urge to see the
• 19:52
  situation. You know, I saw those Australian
• 19:54
  sensor clips and I was like, yeah, OK, I can see why some of
• 19:56
  these came out. And then there were some bits
• 19:58
  where I was like, why on earth was that inappropriate, you
• 20:01
  know? It it depends what censor was on
• 20:03
  call that day, Simon. Thank goodness they did, because
• 20:06
  that's all we've got of some of those episodes now, You know?
• 20:08
  Exactly, exactly. I wish they'd been a little more
• 20:11
  scared, if I'm honest. Exactly.
• 20:13
  I always kind of dreamed that they they they'd say, oh, we'll
• 20:16
  we'll put the whole episode aside and put those in the vault
• 20:18
  and just give you and and then copy it and give you the bits
• 20:21
  without it. But unfortunately they didn't do
• 20:22
  that. They just cut it.
• 20:25
  Out. Yeah.
• 20:26
  Oh, OK. So Tom Baker is about to
• 20:31
  discover the Scarasan in a second.
• 20:33
  And I I really want to talk about those sequences insofar as
• 20:36
  how they're executed, because I don't think they entirely work,
• 20:39
  but I feel as if everybody is going to incredible lengths to
• 20:43
  try and make them work, and I do appreciate the effort.
• 20:47
  Yes. But we're not there yet.
• 20:50
  We're not there yet. Yes, great.
• 20:54
  Does the Brigadier have enough to do in this?
• 20:57
  No, but I don't care. I I I think he he's actually
• 21:00
  kind of fulfilling the role that I mean, I imagine that he should
• 21:03
  be fulfilling, which is just kind of being a a secondary
• 21:06
  background figure rather than an additional companion.
• 21:09
  Yeah, I I agree. Yes, it's Tom's show now, isn't
• 21:15
  it? Oh, yes.
• 21:18
  A bug. I love the way that Proton gets
• 21:26
  so pissed as well. He's.
• 21:28
  He starts. Attacking the console, doesn't
• 21:30
  he? Like, who is this man?
• 21:37
  Toy totally destroyed, that was. Incredible.
• 21:41
  Thank you. My favorite as I got line is oh
• 21:47
  put. This star.
• 21:49
  Oh yes. Oh, and of course, this is the
• 21:53
  clip that we see in Lagopoulos isn't.
• 21:56
  It. Oh, yes, of course, yeah.
• 22:00
  Brilliant. Artifact part organic.
• 22:03
  Organic. Come on, bring on the monster.
• 22:06
  I'm waiting. Isn't it great to have an extra
• 22:10
  or minor character? I do think he gets a line or
• 22:11
  two. Basically, he's giving his all
• 22:13
  just behind the Brigadier. Well, I like the fact that the
• 22:17
  bit where the Doctor says to the Brigadier, you know, you were
• 22:20
  asleep and he's like, oh honestly Doctor, what an absurd
• 22:23
  idea. And then?
• 22:25
  His, his second looks at him as if to say, yeah, that's just as
• 22:29
  if we would do that, you know, little details, you know.
• 22:35
  I'm from Sussex Simon. This Scotland atmosphere looks
• 22:40
  decidedly like Sussex to me. He's actually Sussex is.
• 22:44
  It it is Sussex, yeah. How?
• 22:46
  Do this. I'll tell you what, I have spent
• 22:48
  a fair bit of time in Scotland as well and he's chosen these
• 22:51
  locations brilliantly because this looks like Scottish
• 22:53
  Moreland, yeah. I didn't.
• 22:56
  I hadn't. I mean, I I don't really sort of
• 22:58
  pay attention. I I in all the things of Doctor
• 23:02
  Who about Doctor Who that I recall that I remember that get
• 23:04
  embedded in my brain like production codes get embedded
• 23:07
  but locations don't for some reason.
• 23:09
  I don't know. What's the production code for
• 23:12
  this one then? Oh, it would must be ABCDE F4 FI
• 23:16
  guess. 4F Yeah, I think it is. We've got so much use useless
• 23:21
  information lodged in there. Lodged in there and it's not
• 23:24
  going anywhere unfortunately. But yeah that Heather and the
• 23:27
  and the world. Oh he's he's the shot that I was
• 23:29
  talking about earlier in episode one.
• 23:30
  The over the top of the camera like that is that is just a sort
• 23:33
  of a film school 101 thing. But so few of the other
• 23:37
  directors do it in those kind of situations.
• 23:39
  It just provides depth. It's not just like here is the
• 23:42
  camera on a tripod, it's actually on the ground, you
• 23:44
  know? But just a second ago you had
• 23:45
  Tom Baker running towards the camera and then he turned it
• 23:48
  around and you had him running away from it, just to give it a
• 23:51
  sense of pace, whereas A lesser director would just do a long
• 23:54
  shot of him running across. The mall and the way he pops up
• 23:56
  through the head, behind the head, it's hilarious.
• 24:01
  I love and they even do shots right where they filmed it, like
• 24:05
  an aerial shot looking down over the scarasound shoulder.
• 24:10
  Oh yes, they have. That's true.
• 24:13
  So what could you? Say somebody here where he he
• 24:16
  Sorry, no. No, go on, I.
• 24:17
  Was just going to say this is the bit where you think he's
• 24:19
  swearing when he takes the, takes his hand out of his pocket
• 24:25
  and you could be. Saying you know.
• 24:26
  Yeah, yeah. Of all the doctors that's going
• 24:29
  to swear? And there's this garrison's head
• 24:33
  that you love and adore. Oh, well, you know, it's fine.
• 24:38
  It's, you know. Nathan said that it reminded him
• 24:41
  of his evil old dog because it has got the jaw of a a dog in
• 24:46
  there I. Think.
• 24:46
  Oh yeah. Here we go investigation and I
• 24:52
  know we we don't want this. We want more action.
• 24:54
  Go back. No, no.
• 24:55
  But it's it's it's great contrast because it's quiet and
• 24:58
  they're all concentrating and they're focused and they're
• 25:00
  using pencils on maps and it's all very serious.
• 25:03
  I just remember when I was 7, all I wanted was the monsters,
• 25:05
  You know, at 7 years old, yeah. That's true.
• 25:09
  I don't know what I wanted. It's difficult to.
• 25:11
  I can't remember there. Look at that.
• 25:13
  Shot there from above. Like, where the hell are they
• 25:15
  shooting that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:18
  They must have had a helicopter or something or no, they
• 25:20
  wouldn't have had a helicopter. What would they have done?
• 25:23
  But it's actually interesting you can see that it's actually a
• 25:26
  a back projection of the on the model.
• 25:28
  So it's you can sort of see that a doctor die.
• 25:34
  Fantastic. Sorry, sorry.
• 25:38
  It is brilliant, that great jaw opening up.
• 25:41
  Even that, Yeah. And it's moist.
• 25:43
  Again, it's moist even though it's obviously a model.
• 25:45
  It's moist. I mean, even at the background
• 25:48
  that that model's kind of been shown in sections, in a second
• 25:50
  it comes straight over the hill and you see it in all its glory.
• 25:53
  Yeah. I think we saw a brief thing
• 25:55
  before in the in the of it coming over the hill.
• 25:57
  Yeah, it's it's it's not. Yeah.
• 25:59
  There's only one point, I think. It's better than the dinosaurs
• 26:02
  were going to say. Well, why?
• 26:04
  There's only one point where it's unforgivable, and that is
• 26:06
  when it pops his head out of the terms.
• 26:08
  And then I'm like, yeah, OK, I cannot suspend my belief any
• 26:11
  further, but. We're we're we're kind of
• 26:14
  screwed there. It's.
• 26:14
  So I'm perfectly convinced that's why we spend episodes one
• 26:18
  and two doing an investigation, and episodes three and four just
• 26:21
  learning about the plan. Because when we actually see the
• 26:24
  invasion, we don't have the budget to do it.
• 26:27
  No, but it's not an invasion. It doesn't have to be invasion.
• 26:29
  You know, having, you know 10,000, if there were 10,000
• 26:32
  Zygons being CGI D so that they will kind of duplicate it, that
• 26:35
  would not for me, that would not make it more exciting.
• 26:37
  It's this is far more exciting and far more interesting the way
• 26:39
  it is. Well, that was Part 2.
• 26:41
  It was Part 2. Wow.
• 26:43
  I'm. I'm gonna go make a coffee and
• 26:44
  we'll start part. Three.
• 26:45
  I can see it. OK, I'll stop my recording.