Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Gordie Chiesa on NBA season tipping off today, Jazz vs Grizzlies tomorrow, Heavy international influence on the league + more
Transcript
- 0:04Speaker 1: Peace out.
- 0:04Speaker 2: Let's get the latest on the Utah Jazz with former
- 0:07Speaker 2: Jazz assistant coach Gordy Chiesa. He's forgotten more about the
- 0:11Speaker 2: NBA than any of us will ever know.
- 0:13Speaker 1: Let's not get crazy. Come for the Hoops Talk.
- 0:15Speaker 2: Stay for his list of the day.
- 0:17Speaker 1: My list today.
- 0:18Speaker 2: Here's OC with basketball savant Gordy Chiesa on the Sean
- 0:22Speaker 2: O'Connell Show.
- 0:23Speaker 3: With your mind and your signing. Triple header to start
- 0:29Speaker 3: off the NBA season, Boston on the road at Detroit,
- 0:33Speaker 3: Philadelphia at the defending champions, New York Knicks. Now you
- 0:37Speaker 3: can get into the Madison square garden low for the low,
- 0:40Speaker 3: low price of $ 2, 163 for the first game of the year.
- 0:46Speaker 2: Wow.
- 0:47Speaker 3: Oklahoma city at San Antonio in a primetime game tonight.
- 0:52Speaker 3: Joining us to talk some NBA basketball, our good friend
- 0:55Speaker 3: Gordy Chiesa, resident NBA guru, longtime assistant coach in the association.
- 1:00Speaker 1: Welcome back, Gordy. How are you?
- 1:02Speaker 4: Sean, I'm doing well. Thank you.
- 1:05Speaker 1: So give me a sense of.
- 1:08Speaker 3: The anticipation felt by real basketball people when today rolls around,
- 1:13Speaker 3: when the NBA season finally tips off, because it's wildly different,
- 1:19Speaker 3: of course, than football season where... You get four months
- 1:23Speaker 3: of it and it's one game a week and you
- 1:24Speaker 3: hold your breath the rest of the year. So the players,
- 1:28Speaker 3: you know, they've got this kind of like body calendar
- 1:31Speaker 3: that goes with that and there's a rhythm to it and.
- 1:34Speaker 3: It just feels like it's less of a marathon and
- 1:38Speaker 3: it's more of a sprint when you're talking about football season. Basketball,
- 1:42Speaker 3: very much different. Basketball is absolutely a marathon. So the
- 1:46Speaker 3: first game, how significant does it feel for you and
- 1:50Speaker 3: the other real basketball people?
- 1:53Speaker 4: There's so much anxiety. It's the first real game because
- 1:57Speaker 4: in preseason, most of the key players only played sparingly.
- 2:01Speaker 4: So now it's for real. And so there's a high
- 2:04Speaker 4: level of anxiety, including LeBron James. It sounds crazy that
- 2:09Speaker 4: 24th season for Philadelphia, he's playing tonight in the Garden.
- 2:13Speaker 4: It's the ring ceremony. Mainstays tell me that the 76ers
- 2:16Speaker 4: are going to ruin their party, Knickerbocker ring ceremony. So
- 2:21Speaker 4: there's anxiety. They're waiting for their first dunk, their first
- 2:24Speaker 4: corner three, their first steal. And there's nothing like it
- 2:28Speaker 4: where it's real now. And then as the season goes on,
- 2:31Speaker 4: it's the rhythm and tempo of playing. And it's a grind.
- 2:35Speaker 4: But within the grind, though, there's just so many ups
- 2:37Speaker 4: and downs. And that's why it's so important that you
- 2:40Speaker 4: develop a bench step throughout the season. So we're finally here.
- 2:45Speaker 4: It's the NBA's 81st season in existence tonight. And it's
- 2:50Speaker 4: really going to be a lot of fun.
- 2:51Speaker 3: Utah does not start until tomorrow night. That'll be at
- 2:54Speaker 3: Memphis for the Utah jazz to begin their regular season.
- 2:58Speaker 3: We'll stay focused on today's games. First Boston at Detroit.
- 3:03Speaker 3: You already mentioned Philadelphia at New York ring ceremony for
- 3:06Speaker 3: Knicks and their fans. That's why the, the opening night
- 3:09Speaker 3: tickets are so expensive. Probably Oklahoma city at San Antonio.
- 3:14Speaker 3: So obviously the NBA rolling out some big games with
- 3:17Speaker 3: some star players and and some big teams that expect
- 3:21Speaker 3: big things this year. Let's talk about that San Antonio-Oklahoma
- 3:25Speaker 3: City game. Injuries have changed Oklahoma City, and San Antonio
- 3:30Speaker 3: was also close last year, but what's it going to
- 3:33Speaker 3: take for them to get over the hump and to
- 3:35Speaker 3: be a championship team with that roster?
- 3:40Speaker 4: Well, the Thunder right now won 64 games in 18
- 3:43Speaker 4: last season, and they lost that unbelievable game seven. And
- 3:48Speaker 4: so for the Thunder, they're right there with the Spurs.
- 3:51Speaker 4: You can debate it back and forth. And they'll eventually
- 3:54Speaker 4: probably play in the conference finals, you know, come late
- 3:58Speaker 4: May of 2027. So they're ready to go. You alluded
- 4:03Speaker 4: to Jalen Williams, who's an all-NBA performer, who I heard
- 4:07Speaker 4: during the season last year, and it set them back.
- 4:10Speaker 4: And now the question is always this. What team has
- 4:13Speaker 4: the best defense, is guarding each other, and the bench
- 4:18Speaker 4: play of both teams, which are really solid. Dispose it
- 4:22Speaker 4: of Tobias Harris, who's a 16-year veteran, formerly of Detroit Pistons,
- 4:27Speaker 4: and he'll help them very much. And for the Oklahoma
- 4:31Speaker 4: City Thunder, they're going to try to just hold the
- 4:34Speaker 4: course right now. But they have a really terrific team.
- 4:38Speaker 4: They need good play out of A.J. Mitchell, who came
- 4:41Speaker 4: through for them last year to continue. And there's this
- 4:44Speaker 4: young big guy from UCLA. I'll get some minutes, Sean.
- 4:48Speaker 4: He was the 12th pick of the draft via Michigan,
- 4:51Speaker 4: the NCAA champions, Adai Mara. He's 7'3, Spaniard, and he
- 4:56Speaker 4: will back up Hartenstein. And that will help Chad Holmgren
- 5:00Speaker 4: to play more at a stretch big man. So they
- 5:03Speaker 4: have these three, the two big guys, plus Holmgren, who's
- 5:07Speaker 4: really a primitive player, to try to compensate going against
- 5:10Speaker 4: Wimby Yamba.
- 5:14Speaker 3: For Victor Wimby Yamba, a lot of these preseason predictions
- 5:18Speaker 3: say he'll be a league MVP this year.
- 5:20Speaker 1: He could be a defensive player of the year.
- 5:23Speaker 3: Obviously, he's already just at the very, very top superstar
- 5:27Speaker 3: in the league. What areas of his game need to
- 5:29Speaker 3: improve the most in order for him to be a
- 5:32Speaker 3: championship player?
- 5:35Speaker 4: Balance shooting. He takes way too many awkward threes. So,
- 5:38Speaker 4: when beyond that, if I was.
- 5:41Speaker 4: Coaching him is that I would try to get him
- 5:43Speaker 4: more unbalanced. You see, he's gangly. He has those high hips.
- 5:47Speaker 4: So when he gets bumped off balance, I'm not talking
- 5:49Speaker 4: the lay, I'm talking on perimeter where defensive players stay
- 5:53Speaker 4: in his body and he's taking way too many shots
- 5:56Speaker 4: that are contested. So if I was him, I would
- 5:59Speaker 4: try to shoot more on balance, keep working on my
- 6:04Speaker 4: dribbling skills as I get step back three. And then
- 6:07Speaker 4: if I am going to post up, He'll be a
- 6:09Speaker 4: running post up, meaning what, in motion already versus stationary,
- 6:14Speaker 4: trying to slug it out against good defense, better physicality,
- 6:17Speaker 4: where eventually, again, with that angular body, he has a
- 6:22Speaker 4: hard time against tremendous defense to stay balanced. So, again,
- 6:26Speaker 4: what you want to do is stay gravity more and
- 6:30Speaker 4: get a wider base and try to finish over the
- 6:32Speaker 4: top of the really defense trying to stop you.
- 6:37Speaker 2: All right.
- 6:38Speaker 3: Let's talk about tomorrow. More complete slate of games tomorrow.
- 6:42Speaker 3: Those three matchups today. And then pretty much everybody else
- 6:45Speaker 3: plays before Thursday, Utah starts the season on the road
- 6:50Speaker 3: at Memphis. And obviously everything is different this time around
- 6:53Speaker 3: for the Utah jazz. You know, last year was sort
- 6:57Speaker 3: of like a formality. Hey, celebrate the basketball season coming back.
- 7:01Speaker 3: let's look and see what these young players do and
- 7:04Speaker 3: how they develop. But at the end of the day,
- 7:06Speaker 3: we knew what the results were going to be. Now
- 7:09Speaker 3: it's about chasing something significant. Now it's about seeing how
- 7:13Speaker 3: these young players develop, but in wins, we hope in wins,
- 7:17Speaker 3: they start against a vulnerable Memphis team who is favorites
- 7:21Speaker 3: here in this one. What do you need to see
- 7:24Speaker 3: in game one for this Utah jazz team to make
- 7:27Speaker 3: you feel like this season is going to.
- 7:29Speaker 1: Go the way we want it to go?
- 7:32Speaker 4: Defensively trying to create turnovers. And that's active defense and
- 7:37Speaker 4: being early help position. I always talk about it. If
- 7:41Speaker 4: you're late in help, there's really no help then. You
- 7:44Speaker 4: have to be early and help. So Zach Eadie, the
- 7:47Speaker 4: very huge person that played the starting center for the
- 7:51Speaker 4: Memphis Grizzlies, he only played 11 games last year. So
- 7:54Speaker 4: people forget that he wasn't there. So the Grizzlies, like
- 7:57Speaker 4: the Jazz, they were injury-prone, but also they set guys out.
- 8:01Speaker 4: The Grizzlies didn't. They were actually more injury-related. They won
- 8:05Speaker 4: 25 games. Jazz won 22 last year, but Zach Eadie's back.
- 8:09Speaker 4: Jazz don't play tomorrow night without Yusef Nurkic, who he
- 8:12Speaker 4: knows out for the first– 14 to 16 games, and
- 8:16Speaker 4: he's physical. Nurkic is out with a plantar tear on
- 8:21Speaker 4: his second toe and his right foot, which means now
- 8:24Speaker 4: that Jackson Hayes, who's a lightweight, more bomber, a little
- 8:27Speaker 4: more stronger, and just recently acquired Tony Bradley, formerly drafted
- 8:34Speaker 4: by the Jazz back in 2017, they've got a battle
- 8:38Speaker 4: against Zach Eady. The flip side for the Jazz point
- 8:41Speaker 4: of view is that They can score the ball, so
- 8:44Speaker 4: you've got to be able to defend it. Next part
- 8:46Speaker 4: about it, Cam Boozer. So it's interesting, Sean, in game
- 8:50Speaker 4: one of the NBA season, the second pick of the draft,
- 8:53Speaker 4: Darren Peterson, who we know is a major talent as
- 8:57Speaker 4: a I'll call him a guard. He's not really a
- 9:00Speaker 4: point guard. He's a guard that can score the ball
- 9:02Speaker 4: and can pass off the dribble. Now going against, not
- 9:06Speaker 4: head up though, but going against Cam Boozer, who's his
- 9:09Speaker 4: third pick at a draft. Also adding a palace intrigue
- 9:12Speaker 4: right now, his former jazz alumni, Taylor Hendricks, who the
- 9:15Speaker 4: jazz drafted back in 2023, Sean, ninth pick at a draft.
- 9:19Speaker 4: And they traded with Walter Clayton for a J for, um,
- 9:23Speaker 4: Jaron Jackson Jr. will play now also against the Jazz.
- 9:27Speaker 4: So there's so many different things that are going in
- 9:29Speaker 4: this game. The most important thing, though, is that the
- 9:32Speaker 4: Jazz defense has to improve and be more physical. So
- 9:36Speaker 4: we'll see if game one, if that happens right now.
- 9:40Speaker 3: Gordy Chiesa is our guest talking all things NBA basketball.
- 9:43Speaker 3: A lot of attention is going to be focused on
- 9:45Speaker 3: Darren Peterson as we watch this professional journey begin for him.
- 9:50Speaker 3: How close to the rookie of the year conversation does
- 9:53Speaker 3: he need to be for the Jazz to say, yep,
- 9:56Speaker 3: that was the right guy, that's exactly what.
- 9:59Speaker 1: We want from him?
- 10:03Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the contention, see, again, the Rookie of
- 10:05Speaker 4: the Year, usually speaking, it's someone that right away you're
- 10:10Speaker 4: going to be one of the primary scorers, like from
- 10:13Speaker 4: day one. So I just described A.J. DeBonser, who's hurt
- 10:17Speaker 4: right now, ironically.
- 10:18Speaker 2: A.J.
- 10:18Speaker 4: 's not playing tomorrow against Marky Buck. He has a
- 10:22Speaker 4: left sprained ankle. So his NBA debut will be suddenly
- 10:27Speaker 4: delayed some. So DeBonser, Dallin Peterson, they're all going to
- 10:32Speaker 4: score the ball. But part of that will be, can
- 10:35Speaker 4: I score... to help our team improve dramatically? That should
- 10:40Speaker 4: be the question. If you said to me right now,
- 10:42Speaker 4: rookie of the year who could be would be either
- 10:45Speaker 4: Cam Boosie, but he's going to be one of the
- 10:46Speaker 4: first options offensively, or Caleb Wilson of the Chicago Bulls
- 10:54Speaker 4: should be also right there. So the top four picks
- 10:56Speaker 4: last year, all four of them are going to get
- 10:59Speaker 4: playing time. They're all going to start, and they're all
- 11:02Speaker 4: going to be possibly playing either the second option or
- 11:06Speaker 4: maybe even the first based on how it plays out.
- 11:12Speaker 1: Who else are you watching around the league in this
- 11:14Speaker 1: first week, Gordy? What other teams? Because you can't watch
- 11:17Speaker 1: the whole slate, right?
- 11:18Speaker 3: Obviously, they're rolling out the three tonight because they want
- 11:21Speaker 3: to feature those. Tomorrow, it's a crowded schedule of games.
- 11:25Speaker 3: What teams have intrigued you with what they've done in
- 11:28Speaker 3: the offseason or maybe what they did last year and
- 11:31Speaker 3: you expect a big step forward?
- 11:33Speaker 4: Miami Heat. I'm looking to see with Giannis, who we
- 11:37Speaker 4: know is an absolute MVP candidate again, and what he
- 11:41Speaker 4: does with the Heat. They have a great system. They
- 11:44Speaker 4: used to play slower and defensive-minded. Last year, they were
- 11:49Speaker 4: first in the NBA in pace offensively. So they made
- 11:53Speaker 4: that transaction of doing it. Now they added Giannis, and
- 11:57Speaker 4: he added Klay Thompson as a shooter. So now the
- 12:02Speaker 4: question is, can Davian Mitchell, who's going to be the
- 12:06Speaker 4: starting point guard. Can he hold in there against the
- 12:09Speaker 4: other starting point guards? Can Andrew Wiggins make another step?
- 12:14Speaker 4: Can Tim Hardaway off the bench score the ball for them?
- 12:17Speaker 4: But Giannis is the biggest acquisition, along with Bobby Portis,
- 12:22Speaker 4: a part of that trade. And they left out purposely
- 12:25Speaker 4: the rocker Gibraltar, Bam Adebato. So the Heat could make
- 12:29Speaker 4: the biggest acquisition. underrated movement in the Eastern Conference because
- 12:34Speaker 4: they are talented. They have been one of the best
- 12:36Speaker 4: coaches in the NBA and Eric Spolstrom, and no one's
- 12:39Speaker 4: talking about them. So, again, I'm following the heat, and
- 12:42Speaker 4: especially Giannis. Can he be... mentally focused now with a
- 12:47Speaker 4: new team in South Beach, can it give them a
- 12:52Speaker 4: new energy level? You know, Sean, like any business, when
- 12:54Speaker 4: you change, quote, jobs, change teams, it gives you a
- 12:58Speaker 4: second chance now, almost like a do-over, the things they
- 13:02Speaker 4: didn't like or didn't do well based on you with
- 13:05Speaker 4: the new situation. I told you so I can still play.
- 13:10Speaker 3: Gordy, who's going to be the... League MVP, who's going
- 13:13Speaker 3: to be the defensive player of the year? Who's going
- 13:15Speaker 3: to be the coach of the year?
- 13:20Speaker 4: Let's go first. Defensive player of the year, Victor Wemby-Amber. Absolutely.
- 13:24Speaker 4: He will be. He changes every game defensively. He can
- 13:27Speaker 4: steal the ball, and he really plays hard, which is
- 13:30Speaker 4: actually commendable. All right, MVP. I'm going to lean towards.
- 13:39Speaker 2: Giannis.
- 13:40Speaker 1: Giannis.
- 13:42Speaker 4: Yeah, Giannis over Nikolai Jokic, who we all love also,
- 13:47Speaker 4: and Shea Julius Alexander. Again, all those guys are certainly worthy. Absolutely.
- 13:52Speaker 4: I'm just going to lean towards Giannis this year as
- 13:56Speaker 4: far as a rebirth. So it's going to be interesting.
- 14:00Speaker 4: I said coach of the year. Usually speaking, Sean, most
- 14:05Speaker 4: times it's a team that is a turnaround coach, you know,
- 14:09Speaker 4: where the team was struggling and then suddenly they turned
- 14:12Speaker 4: it around based on either injuries now came back, those
- 14:15Speaker 4: players came back, or it's a pop in the air
- 14:19Speaker 4: as far as just really getting better. So with that said,
- 14:29Speaker 4: I think it's going to be Quint Snyder of the
- 14:31Speaker 4: Atlanta Hawks.
- 14:32Speaker 1: Okay.
- 14:33Speaker 4: Who has a good roster, and they did very well
- 14:36Speaker 4: last year. Sean, I have a question for you, though. Sean,
- 14:38Speaker 4: do you realize that right now the NBA is the
- 14:43Speaker 4: 81st season and that it's been so many people from
- 14:48Speaker 4: different countries. This year, Sean, to start the season right
- 14:52Speaker 4: now today, they are 125 international players in the NBA.
- 14:57Speaker 4: including 41 countries and six continents. So, Sean, here's the
- 15:02Speaker 4: question to you. Name me all the continents that NBA
- 15:07Speaker 4: players are coming from.
- 15:11Speaker 3: Well, every one of them except Antarctica sounds like it's represented, right?
- 15:15Speaker 3: North America, South America, tons from Europe. Africa has a few. Asia, obviously,
- 15:22Speaker 3: is such a massive continent.
- 15:23Speaker 1: It spans.
- 15:25Speaker 3: all of those West Asian countries. And I don't think
- 15:27Speaker 3: there's many from Southeast Asia, but every single one except
- 15:32Speaker 3: Antarctica in Australia, right?
- 15:35Speaker 4: No, the answer is you're correct. Right. The only continent
- 15:39Speaker 4: not represented in the NBA roster is Antarctica. And so, yeah,
- 15:43Speaker 4: Australia with all the players. So this year in the NBA,
- 15:46Speaker 4: the leading country as far as with the most players
- 15:49Speaker 4: that are non-American. is France, led by Victor Wambayama. They
- 15:54Speaker 4: have 17 guys on their roster, and Canada is second
- 15:58Speaker 4: international players with 16, and Australia is third with nine players. So, Sean,
- 16:05Speaker 4: I'm impressed by your sixth-grade geography teacher that taught you
- 16:09Speaker 4: very well about Antarctica. I'm very impressed.
- 16:12Speaker 1: Yes. No penguins playing in the NBA, as far as
- 16:16Speaker 1: we know.
- 16:17Speaker 4: But you never know, Sean. The globalization, who knows, Sean,
- 16:22Speaker 4: someday you might own that team someday, you and James Peterson.
- 16:26Speaker 3: I could see putting an NBA franchise down there just
- 16:30Speaker 3: off the coast of Patagonia, Antarctica.
- 16:33Speaker 4: Absolutely.
- 16:33Speaker 1: There we go.
- 16:34Speaker 4: And, Sean, just one quick thing about it before I
- 16:36Speaker 4: get to the list. So now is getting this NBA
- 16:40Speaker 4: season starts, but also the sadness of some guys getting cut.
- 16:45Speaker 4: So locally here, Dylan Jones, a former first-round pick of
- 16:49Speaker 4: the Thunder via Weber State, got cut by the 76ers.
- 16:53Speaker 4: So this Saturday is the G League draft. So probably
- 16:57Speaker 4: Dylan Jones will be in the draft also. And Gabe Mattson,
- 17:01Speaker 4: former Utah standout, was cut recently by the Heat. And
- 17:06Speaker 4: then cut recently... Happened yesterday by the Grizzlies was Walter Clayton,
- 17:13Speaker 4: the 18th pick of the draft. So he'll be dropping
- 17:15Speaker 4: in the G League come draft day on Saturday. And
- 17:19Speaker 4: also cut was Dwight Powell, a 12-year veteran of them.
- 17:26Speaker 4: Dallas Mavericks got cut. And interesting with the Lakers, my
- 17:29Speaker 4: last one is the Lakers. Dalton Kinnick, who once scored
- 17:32Speaker 4: 40 points in an NBA game versus the Jazz, who
- 17:35Speaker 4: was the 17th pick of the 2024 draft, got cut. So, Sean,
- 17:40Speaker 4: NBA basketball is very exhilarating, but also the business of
- 17:44Speaker 4: basketball sometimes is very cruel.
- 17:48Speaker 1: What's your list today, Gordy?
- 17:50Speaker 4: My list today, Sean, is based on playing the game
- 17:54Speaker 4: as far as being available. All-time franchise leaders of the
- 17:59Speaker 4: Utah Jazz team of most games played wearing Utah Jazz uniform.
- 18:04Speaker 4: This is just only playing for the Jazz career games played.
- 18:09Speaker 4: I had to join to coach eight of these players
- 18:11Speaker 4: on this list. I cut it off at 10. The
- 18:14Speaker 4: 10th most games played by a Jazz player in a
- 18:17Speaker 4: Jazz uniform, number 10, Rudy Gobert, he played in 611
- 18:21Speaker 4: Jazz games. Number nine, his nickname was B.
- 18:24Speaker 2: Russ.
- 18:25Speaker 4: Brian Russell played in 628 games. Number eight, nickname was D-Fave,
- 18:31Speaker 4: Derek Favors, played in 644 jazz games. Number seven, the
- 18:37Speaker 4: jazz-owned Russian comet, Andrei Karolinko, he played in a total
- 18:41Speaker 4: of 681 games. Number six, Greg Ostertag, Big O, played
- 18:46Speaker 4: in 700 jazz games. Number five, all-time, Big T, Daryl Bailey,
- 18:51Speaker 4: played in 708 jazz games. Number four all-time, Dr. Duncan Stein.
- 18:57Speaker 4: Dale Griffin played in 765 games. Number three, Mark Eaton
- 19:03Speaker 4: played in 875 contests. Second player of all-time in jazz
- 19:07Speaker 4: history with the most games played is Karl Malone with 1,434 games.
- 19:12Speaker 4: But Sean, let's add to that. He only missed 13
- 19:14Speaker 4: games in 18 jazz career years. But the majority of
- 19:21Speaker 4: the game's absentee was based on being suspended for previous
- 19:24Speaker 4: game fighting. So Carl only missed 13 games, mostly because
- 19:29Speaker 4: of fighting. And the number one player of all time
- 19:31Speaker 4: in Jazz history for the most games played is John Stockton,
- 19:35Speaker 4: the Ironman. He played in 1,504 games quickly in his
- 19:41Speaker 4: 19-year-old brilliant career. 17 times he played in every game
- 19:46Speaker 4: that season. 15 times he played in all 82 games.
- 19:50Speaker 4: In the lockout year of 1999, John played in all
- 19:53Speaker 4: 50 games. So John Stockton only missed 22 games in
- 19:59Speaker 4: 19 years. Presently, the Jazz leader right now on the
- 20:02Speaker 4: roster is most games played in Jazz uniform is Larry Markkinen.
- 20:06Speaker 4: He played in 218 games. scrimmage at 2018 skirmishes as
- 20:11Speaker 4: a jazz player right now. Thus, that's my list of today.
- 20:17Speaker 1: Gordy, you're the man. Enjoy the opening night of the
- 20:19Speaker 1: NBA season. Appreciate you, my friend.
- 20:22Speaker 4: Thanks, Sean. Peace out.
- 20:23Speaker 1: That's Gordy Chiesa. Great stuff from Gordy.
- 20:26Speaker 3: Every time we get a chance to talk to him,
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