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Cubs Trade Deadline Preview · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: If I'm in the trying to Blue Jays front office,
0:02
Speaker 1: I'm like, who are the Cubs? What do they think
0:04
Speaker 1: that they're like better than you know? To you?
0:12
Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory Foul Territory Network's Cubs podcast.
0:18
Speaker 2: I'm Sahadev Sharma with my co host Patrick Mooney. We're
0:21
Speaker 2: both beat writers for the Cubs at the Athletic. Thanks
0:26
Speaker 2: for listening. Make sure to rate reviews, subscribe all that
0:29
Speaker 2: stuff that you do with podcasts. Read our work over
0:32
Speaker 2: at the Athletic because you're gonna want to complain about
0:35
Speaker 2: the Cubs, because that's that is the thing to do
0:39
Speaker 2: right now. And who can blame you? This team lost
0:45
Speaker 2: in heartbreaking fashion yet again, can't drive runners in, can't
0:52
Speaker 2: come up with big outs from the bullpen. I think yesterday,
0:55
Speaker 2: you know Tuesday's loss. People want to the people that
0:58
Speaker 2: are focusing on the bullpen or missing the bigger picture here.
1:01
Speaker 2: This this team is in a rut when it comes
1:03
Speaker 2: to runners in scoring position. They got ten hits and
1:06
Speaker 2: scored two runs. They need to they need to do
1:10
Speaker 2: more with those those hits. They need to the you know,
1:14
Speaker 2: a council said it, Uh, what do you say? I
1:17
Speaker 2: think he said two runs ain't gonna cut it. That's
1:20
Speaker 2: kind of how he how he wrapped up his his
1:22
Speaker 2: summation of the offense. They're they're not hitting with runners
1:25
Speaker 2: in scoring position. Look, look, this this team is probably
1:30
Speaker 2: you know, better than their record states or should be
1:34
Speaker 2: better than their record states. They're not better than their
1:36
Speaker 2: record states that they are what they are. And I
1:38
Speaker 2: don't think they're playing better than their record states. They
1:41
Speaker 2: should be better. They expectations were higher, uh and and
1:46
Speaker 2: they're not good enough right now. So I think it's
1:49
Speaker 2: natural for us to get to a point like how
1:53
Speaker 2: do they improve and not just for the beyond in
1:58
Speaker 2: the future and avoid situation like this where we're talking
2:01
Speaker 2: about bad starts and everything. I'm talking about as soon
2:04
Speaker 2: as possible, right And that was kind of my question
2:09
Speaker 2: to Craig Council in pregame yesterday, Patrick was how how
2:15
Speaker 2: much are you guys talking about improving this team externally
2:21
Speaker 2: and in council? You know, you know how he is,
2:23
Speaker 2: He's not He's he's very down to earth with how
2:28
Speaker 2: he looks at things. He doesn't take like these insane
2:31
Speaker 2: like he's not reactionary. Yeah, yeah, he just so so
2:38
Speaker 2: he he was like, look it, that's their job to
2:42
Speaker 2: constantly look at look for ways to improve the team. Essentially,
2:48
Speaker 2: he you know, he's like, we're having those conversations constantly.
2:52
Speaker 2: But he also pointed out he's like the trade deadline.
2:55
Speaker 2: He's like, you guys are always ready to start the
2:57
Speaker 2: trade deadline way too early, Like it's just not how
2:59
Speaker 2: it works. And he's listen, when I ask those questions,
3:03
Speaker 2: I'm asking them because I'm curious what their point of
3:06
Speaker 2: view is and how he looks at it. Right, I
3:09
Speaker 2: don't expect them to make a trade today. The Dodgers
3:14
Speaker 2: just traded for Kevin Bigio. That guy was dfaid. The
3:18
Speaker 2: Cubs have traded for Tyson Miller. That guy was dfaid.
3:21
Speaker 2: There's been one big trade by the lone gunslinger left
3:25
Speaker 2: in baseball outside of Dave Debraski right, A. J. Preller
3:28
Speaker 2: and Dave Dobraski. A the guys that you look at
3:30
Speaker 2: and say, Okay, they don't care about I shouldn't say
3:34
Speaker 2: they don't care about They're not as attached to this
3:38
Speaker 2: value that everyone in front offices are obsessed with. Right,
3:42
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like Cleveland, Tampa, Bay, Milwaukee,
3:46
Speaker 2: Who's you know, not really running away with the division,
3:50
Speaker 2: but leading the division and continues to impress despite losing
3:53
Speaker 2: their manager, trading Corbyn Burns, losing their closer whoever else
3:58
Speaker 2: they lost, Brandon would Ruff is hurt. So you know,
4:03
Speaker 2: there are very few teams left that act in the
4:07
Speaker 2: way that the Padres did to make those moves. But
4:10
Speaker 2: I think it's hard to not start thinking about those
4:14
Speaker 2: things and figuring out how does this team get better
4:19
Speaker 2: because this is quickly on. This season is quickly unraveling
4:23
Speaker 2: and turning into one of those irrelevant ears. Yeah.
4:28
Speaker 1: I read the quote that you put in our story
4:31
Speaker 1: on the athletic of from Council. I like to think
4:35
Speaker 1: you guys jumped to trade deadline stuff by about five weeks,
4:38
Speaker 1: so it's about right. And so I read that with
4:41
Speaker 1: I can totally picture him delivering that line. I think
4:46
Speaker 1: in print it probably looks more standoffish than it actually
4:49
Speaker 1: feels when you're conversing with him. Just to clear that up,
4:54
Speaker 1: But you make a good point about the rest of
4:57
Speaker 1: the industry. I just think the frustration amongst CUPS fans
5:04
Speaker 1: is kind of like, well, why is this so paint
5:09
Speaker 1: by numbers or cookie cutter? Because that's kind of how
5:12
Speaker 1: it feels at time, and I think we are approaching
5:14
Speaker 1: that moment where Jed Hoyer and Carter Hawkins are going
5:18
Speaker 1: to have to get out of their comfort zone and
5:21
Speaker 1: that could mean making a deal that doesn't totally line
5:26
Speaker 1: up on the value side, but the moment kind of
5:30
Speaker 1: demands it. And that's what we got into today on
5:33
Speaker 1: the Athletic our kind of trade deadline primer of just
5:36
Speaker 1: three early storylines that we have on our radar. We
5:41
Speaker 1: can go in any order you want here, But since
5:43
Speaker 1: we're talking about Jed and Carter, I think it's kind
5:45
Speaker 1: of on them to deliver. And Jed Hoyer was on
5:51
Speaker 1: six seventy, the team's flagship this week, talking about efficiency
5:58
Speaker 1: and how everything can't be done externally. But I think
6:02
Speaker 1: what jumped out at both of us is we're looking
6:04
Speaker 1: for upgrades externally and that is it period. Of course,
6:08
Speaker 1: there's other stuff executives say about you know it all,
6:13
Speaker 1: you know it all can be done from the outside.
6:14
Speaker 1: Of course, you can't, you know, swap out twenty six
6:18
Speaker 1: for twenty six. But there are like areas of this
6:22
Speaker 1: roster that are just screaming for upgrades, and like catchers
6:28
Speaker 1: are kind of like offensive linemen, right, Like, you just
6:30
Speaker 1: don't really want to notice them, you know. It's like
6:32
Speaker 1: the offensive lineman they give up a huge sack or
6:34
Speaker 1: penalty and everyone's circling them on the telestrader. These catching errors, miscues,
6:42
Speaker 1: lapses are coming up an awful lot in low scoring,
6:48
Speaker 1: close games, to the point where this is kind of untenable.
6:52
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7:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it happened again yesterday. There was there
7:54
Speaker 2: was runners on second and third. I think Lighter was
7:58
Speaker 2: in or was it Wisnasky. I can't keep track of
8:01
Speaker 2: who was in, but uh, it was a pitch in
8:04
Speaker 2: the dirt. Amaya kind of blocks it, but it gets
8:08
Speaker 2: kind of a little bit behind him, right, but not
8:10
Speaker 2: that far away. The runners aren't moving and Amaya can't
8:13
Speaker 2: find it, and he kicks the ball and I know
8:16
Speaker 2: that's probably not you know, like an egregious catcher mistake,
8:21
Speaker 2: right that that's kind of bad luck. But when you
8:23
Speaker 2: add everything up, it just like feels like, man, they're
8:27
Speaker 2: just not doing anything right. Like here's here's another nitpicky
8:30
Speaker 2: thing where I wouldn't I wouldn't even bring this up
8:34
Speaker 2: if it weren't for seemingly every single game, something's going
8:38
Speaker 2: on with the catchers. Yesterday, two outs, Cody Bellinger hit
8:42
Speaker 2: ripped a double into the corner with Amaya on first
8:46
Speaker 2: two outs, run around first double into the corner. You'd
8:50
Speaker 2: hope a run scores there. It's I get it, it's
8:54
Speaker 2: the catcher. I don't want it to seem like I'm
8:56
Speaker 2: picking on a Maaya. He's not. He's what Him and
8:59
Speaker 2: Gomes are probably the slowest guys on the team. But
9:02
Speaker 2: it's just like this. It's like always you look up
9:05
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, the catcher is costing them a run,
9:08
Speaker 2: either allowing a run to score, or unable to score
9:11
Speaker 2: a run or unable to come up with a big hit.
9:14
Speaker 2: It feels like when when that happens, where every other
9:19
Speaker 2: game you're looking up and you're seeing something like that happen.
9:23
Speaker 2: It's happening too many times, and it's happening like a
9:26
Speaker 2: couple of times. You can excuse it, especially if they're
9:30
Speaker 2: producing in other ways. But right now, the catchers just
9:32
Speaker 2: aren't doing enough. I don't I think like a minor
9:36
Speaker 2: upgrade there, or like an upgrade in a very specific way,
9:41
Speaker 2: whether it be just like certain aspects of defense just
9:47
Speaker 2: slightly below league average offense, stuff like that. Something that
9:54
Speaker 2: most teams would look at it and it's like, I
9:55
Speaker 2: don't see how that's an upgrade. But when you're when
9:58
Speaker 2: you have a catching dual like this that's struggling so mightily,
10:02
Speaker 2: you have to look at how do you how do
10:04
Speaker 2: you take care of this?
10:06
Speaker 1: I mean, this to me is a matter of when
10:08
Speaker 1: it happens, not if it happens. I think you know
10:11
Speaker 1: you run the numbers and offensively defensively, they're in that
10:16
Speaker 1: twenty eighth to thirtieth range in baseball on both sides
10:20
Speaker 1: of the ball. Just that can't happen, particularly on a
10:25
Speaker 1: team like this that doesn't have the greatest margin for error.
10:30
Speaker 1: And so like, what if one of these guys gets
10:34
Speaker 1: hit with a foul tip or like gets hit by
10:36
Speaker 1: a pitch, like there's not a lot at Iowa either,
10:40
Speaker 1: that's going to make you feel great. And to put
10:42
Speaker 1: either one of these catchers in a position where they
10:46
Speaker 1: have to carry it even heavier workload just isn't realistic.
10:49
Speaker 1: So that that to me, I mean, even the best
10:52
Speaker 1: of times, the Covenant are usually looking for a third
10:54
Speaker 1: catcher at the trade deadline, right whether it's was it
10:58
Speaker 1: Maldonado or a rivera whoever. It was like, you want
11:02
Speaker 1: those last two months of the season to have some
11:04
Speaker 1: sort of solid backstop there, Alex Sabila, I guess that
11:08
Speaker 1: was after getting rid of Montero. I'm rambling about random
11:13
Speaker 1: kind of extra cups catchers, but clearly it's front of mind.
11:16
Speaker 1: I think we need to get to the question of
11:21
Speaker 1: where is the star? Where is the guy who anchors
11:25
Speaker 1: all of this? We are going to be hearing a
11:29
Speaker 1: lot about Pete Alonzo Vlad Guerrero Junior. And to me,
11:36
Speaker 1: this is one that I think could ultimately define this
11:41
Speaker 1: front office. And you know, do they kind of jump
11:46
Speaker 1: out and get a guy who can also help you
11:50
Speaker 1: next year? Does that make it more? You know, can
11:53
Speaker 1: you stomach you know, giving up more of your precious
11:56
Speaker 1: prospects if you have another year? And to me, like,
12:01
Speaker 1: if I'm in the Toronto Blue Jays front office, I'm like,
12:04
Speaker 1: who are the cubs? What do they think that they're
12:05
Speaker 1: like better than us? You know, like what would be
12:07
Speaker 1: selling to you? However, if it does come to that,
12:13
Speaker 1: like to melag lad's a guy you gotta jump on,
12:17
Speaker 1: Like I don't care if Owen Casey hits forty home
12:19
Speaker 1: runs six years from now in one season, Like unless
12:23
Speaker 1: there's something in your due diligence about that you think
12:28
Speaker 1: Flad's a bad fit or that some there's some sort
12:31
Speaker 1: of cliff that you can see already. But otherwise, if
12:35
Speaker 1: a guy is basically Christopher Morrell's age and could benefit
12:40
Speaker 1: from a change of scenery and has Hall of Fame
12:43
Speaker 1: bloodlines and like MVP caliber seasons on his resume, like
12:49
Speaker 1: that is kind of a no brainer. There are not
12:51
Speaker 1: many prospects in this farm system that I'm you know,
12:55
Speaker 1: clutching to forever. Like I think this is a moment
13:00
Speaker 1: where you can get that star because if you don't
13:04
Speaker 1: do it on the trade market, like those free agents
13:05
Speaker 1: don't always come around. I mean you you were on
13:08
Speaker 1: Raphael Devers a while ago, Like as soon as that happened,
13:10
Speaker 1: like Cups, who'd be like, oh man, that guy would
13:12
Speaker 1: have been a great fit. It's like, well, it didn't
13:15
Speaker 1: come close to your zip code, right, So, like this
13:20
Speaker 1: is an opportunity. There are not many times on the calendar.
13:23
Speaker 1: Jed Hoyras said this himself of when you can be transactional,
13:27
Speaker 1: and this to me could be a defining window for
13:30
Speaker 1: this administration.
13:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean and Patrick you're talking about like a
13:35
Speaker 2: high cost, right. I was thinking about it, like, if
13:38
Speaker 2: you're getting a rental, that's not going to cost as
13:41
Speaker 2: much as people want to think. Like, think about all
13:44
Speaker 2: the rentals that the Cubs have traded. They didn't get
13:47
Speaker 2: any players that were ranked in the top one hundred
13:51
Speaker 2: at the time, right, they got they got guys that, hey,
13:55
Speaker 2: they did a great job. They got like Peter Armstrong
13:57
Speaker 2: was hurt at the time, right, Nick Madrigal was hurt
14:01
Speaker 2: at the time. They got a reliever along with Nick Madrigal.
14:06
Speaker 2: Uh Al contra uhhh uh Owen Casey was the was
14:11
Speaker 2: the winter before and that was for two years of darbish, right,
14:17
Speaker 2: wasn't it three? Yeah? So I mean they didn't extend it. Yeah,
14:21
Speaker 2: but that was a weird time. That was a weird
14:24
Speaker 2: time in the country right in general, just with COVID
14:28
Speaker 2: and everything and money being an issue for for the
14:31
Speaker 2: Cubs being I'm using air quotes being an issue. Uh,
14:36
Speaker 2: but like these the cost to get these guys that
14:40
Speaker 2: are rentals is just not as high as as uh
14:44
Speaker 2: we sometimes assume. Here's something that I found interesting. I
14:48
Speaker 2: looked up what it what it was to get Trey
14:50
Speaker 2: Turner and Max Scherzer. So a couple months of Max
14:53
Speaker 2: Sureser and a year and a half of Trey Turner.
14:55
Speaker 2: So that's a guy, a stud pitcher and stud shortstop. Yeah, right,
15:01
Speaker 2: two studs. It was to top one hundred prospects in
15:06
Speaker 2: the back half, not like top ten prospects, not even
15:09
Speaker 2: top twenty five prospects. Kaber Ruiz and Josiah Gray, and
15:13
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure Gray's like stock was going down by
15:16
Speaker 2: middle of the season, but preseason they were both like
15:18
Speaker 2: in the fifties in most publications, right, and those are.
15:22
Speaker 1: Two players who might be like two of the ten
15:24
Speaker 1: best in baseball at.
15:25
Speaker 2: That moment, right, yeah, oh yeah, those yeah.
15:29
Speaker 1: Those the best players in the world at that moment, right,
15:32
Speaker 1: to top one hundred prospects.
15:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, two top one hundred prospects and two squires, two
15:38
Speaker 2: minor leaguers that I had, like I looked up. Maybe
15:41
Speaker 2: they're better now. I haven't looked that much detailed, but
15:44
Speaker 2: I haven't heard of them. They're not like these elite
15:47
Speaker 2: prospects even now years later. So it just it's the
15:53
Speaker 2: type of move right now where the system is at.
15:57
Speaker 2: I felt it in the off season. I don't really
16:00
Speaker 2: know if there was that move that they felt they
16:02
Speaker 2: should make, Soto was probably that move right, but they
16:06
Speaker 2: just didn't. They weren't ready to go there. I don't
16:09
Speaker 2: know when when it is when, when's the right time
16:12
Speaker 2: if it's not like if the player is available, if
16:15
Speaker 2: that player that's available beyond this season, that's under contract
16:19
Speaker 2: beyond the season, is available at the deadline, they have
16:23
Speaker 2: the depth, they have the talent. You need to be
16:27
Speaker 2: aggressive at a certain point. These players just aren't going
16:30
Speaker 2: to be as valuable to you. Yes, you don't have
16:33
Speaker 2: enough playing time, you don't have the spots on the roster.
16:36
Speaker 2: You have veterans under contract that you need to play
16:41
Speaker 2: and that need to produce. That's kind of what Jed
16:43
Speaker 2: Hoyer is also saying when he says internal improvements, He's
16:46
Speaker 2: absolutely right they need to be better, Like these players
16:50
Speaker 2: need to be better that they have on their roster,
16:52
Speaker 2: but they also need to go find ways to solidify
16:57
Speaker 2: this roster. I just don't I just don't think being
17:01
Speaker 2: patient and wading out with the prospects makes much sense
17:06
Speaker 2: for much longer you have about this deadline and next offseason,
17:11
Speaker 2: and if you have not used that system beyond just
17:14
Speaker 2: to produce talent for your own organization, like just you know,
17:18
Speaker 2: to have them play in the big leagues. I think
17:21
Speaker 2: you've made a misstep. There's no way all these guys,
17:24
Speaker 2: where's Owen Casey, Kevin o'contra, Pete Crow Armstrong, Jefferson Rohause,
17:28
Speaker 2: Moises Bellia Steros. Where are they all playing? Like when
17:32
Speaker 2: you have Michael Bush and Nico Horner and Dansby Swanson
17:36
Speaker 2: and Christopher Morrell and Ian Hap and Cody Bellinger and
17:39
Speaker 2: Saye Suzuki, Like, at a certain point you have to wonder, like,
17:43
Speaker 2: what's going on? I probably missed a couple prospects in
17:46
Speaker 2: that discussion. You have secondary pieces that are on fire
17:49
Speaker 2: right now, like Alexander Canario and Brennan Davis. Like those
17:53
Speaker 2: are pieces. They're not superstars anymore, right. You don't look
17:57
Speaker 2: at them as as like the pure Bill Bilding blocks
18:00
Speaker 2: at the heart of an order. But they are also
18:03
Speaker 2: valuable in a sense that at a certain point you've
18:06
Speaker 2: got to start moving these guys. You've got to start
18:08
Speaker 2: being aggressive at the deadline. They kind of were last year,
18:11
Speaker 2: right in a sense that they were buzz has.
18:14
Speaker 1: Kind of faded. The guys you just mentioned there.
18:17
Speaker 2: Right, Right, those guys aren't superstar prospects, but it's just
18:20
Speaker 2: like they're the type of guy that you move like that.
18:23
Speaker 2: They've become the types of guys that are the second
18:25
Speaker 2: or three piece in a deal. Right, So it's just
18:29
Speaker 2: like you got to start start looking to find ways
18:33
Speaker 2: you're not giving these prospects away. I'm not saying they're valueless.
18:36
Speaker 2: I'm saying you need to be aggressive and smart and
18:39
Speaker 2: find opportunities to improve this club now and hopefully for
18:43
Speaker 2: the future.
18:45
Speaker 1: And even those guys you're talking about, like what is
18:49
Speaker 1: their peak years are going to be like twenty twenty eight,
18:51
Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine, right, I mean, like what sort of
18:55
Speaker 1: like at that point, you know, twelve thirteen years after
19:01
Speaker 1: your last World Series title, And you know, I get
19:05
Speaker 1: what Jed's saying, like, certainly there's a cost to all
19:08
Speaker 1: of the short term deals that they did after the
19:13
Speaker 1: World Series, but to me, that was an issue of
19:17
Speaker 1: not being ready to backfill that. You know. Part of
19:23
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of Theo's time here was how
19:27
Speaker 1: conservative they're kind of pitching procurement philosophy was it was
19:33
Speaker 1: the chicken or the chicken or the egg thing of
19:35
Speaker 1: like they drafting the wrong players, were they not coaching
19:37
Speaker 1: him up the right way? That there was clearly kind
19:39
Speaker 1: of a disconnect that Tommy hot Tovey ultimately helped a bridge,
19:44
Speaker 1: and you know, later on Craig Breslo kind of ramping
19:47
Speaker 1: up the stuff and then some of their other programs.
19:52
Speaker 1: But like when you look at who they gave up,
19:56
Speaker 1: I mean, Eloy Jimenez was who they thought he was,
19:59
Speaker 1: you know, basic the designated hitter who has trouble staying healthy. Obviously,
20:04
Speaker 1: Dylan Cees has had some awesome moments and outperformed their
20:10
Speaker 1: thoughts of he's probably a lading reliever, like, of course,
20:13
Speaker 1: but he wasn't going to help you when you were
20:15
Speaker 1: making the NLCS, Like it took him a while to
20:18
Speaker 1: get up and running and wasn't lights out every single
20:22
Speaker 1: year from the White Sox. And then after that, it's
20:24
Speaker 1: like Isaac Parades is a really nice player who'd be
20:27
Speaker 1: great right now. And that was a guy when they
20:29
Speaker 1: gave up in the I believe Justin Wilson Alexabila deal
20:33
Speaker 1: like that was a good scouting move by the Tigers,
20:36
Speaker 1: but he ultimately blossomed with the Rays, not the Tigers,
20:39
Speaker 1: and then you know, Alex Lang has had some moments
20:43
Speaker 1: with the Tigers, but Nick Cassianos was awesome. Like, I
20:46
Speaker 1: just don't see the like, oh my god, they traded
20:52
Speaker 1: some future Hall of Famer for nothing, Like, No, they
20:55
Speaker 1: made a lot of really good deals. And that's why
20:59
Speaker 1: I think some of it is just stuff Jed says
21:02
Speaker 1: on the radio of like, you know, these are kind
21:05
Speaker 1: of things thoughts in their mind. I ultimately don't think
21:08
Speaker 1: that will prevent them because they have been pretty good
21:13
Speaker 1: at making those moves to upgrade the team mid season,
21:16
Speaker 1: and this is a roster that's kind of streaming out
21:19
Speaker 1: for it, and ultimately, these are the guys that they've picked.
21:24
Speaker 1: This is a handpicked roster and that like if you
21:28
Speaker 1: don't believe in them, then why should anyone else?
21:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think when when we talk
21:35
Speaker 2: about this and we listen to what Jed's saying, I
21:38
Speaker 2: think he wants to be careful to not trade the
21:43
Speaker 2: wrong He wants to trade the right guys, right, Yeah. Yeah,
21:47
Speaker 2: But it like at the time, like say we go
21:50
Speaker 2: back to the Kintana trade, they all knew they had
21:53
Speaker 2: no one else in the system. Those two guys. It
21:56
Speaker 2: was Eloy and see after that, it was nothing else
22:00
Speaker 2: they had to and they were in desperation mode. I mean,
22:02
Speaker 2: how long had THEO in the background talk to us
22:06
Speaker 2: about how we have to find a cost control starter
22:09
Speaker 2: somehow we either have to develop this guy or we
22:12
Speaker 2: need to trade for it. Yeah, yeah, right, Katana's contract
22:17
Speaker 2: allowed them to sign Darbish. It had been just like
22:21
Speaker 2: I've been talking, I've been talking about the middle of
22:23
Speaker 2: the order BAT for year, for years. Now, that's what
22:27
Speaker 2: that was. This is the next thing, right that it
22:30
Speaker 2: was back then. Back then it was finding that cost
22:32
Speaker 2: control starter. Now it's finding that middle of the order BAT.
22:36
Speaker 2: I like, I don't think I think this is a
22:40
Speaker 2: very different situation though, because like I said, they had
22:46
Speaker 2: those two guys at the time and then a huge
22:49
Speaker 2: drop off. They were not producing any even like middle
22:52
Speaker 2: tier talent. It was like David Body and nothing else. Yeah,
22:57
Speaker 2: and now you can go through the system and say, like, huh,
23:01
Speaker 2: bj Murray's interesting. You know, uh, here's here are like
23:06
Speaker 2: a list of pictures that are really talented. James Treanto's
23:10
Speaker 2: isn't like this impact bat, but he's a really talented,
23:14
Speaker 2: uh you know, really good prospect. They have guys like that,
23:19
Speaker 2: and then I mean you can go up and down
23:21
Speaker 2: the system and say, like, huh, that guy's interesting. They've
23:25
Speaker 2: got a steal in the fifteenth round for a guy
23:27
Speaker 2: that looks like he's on a trajectory to make a
23:30
Speaker 2: major league roster. Sometimes that those things just were not
23:33
Speaker 2: happening before. So in a sense like Jed's accomplished something
23:38
Speaker 2: that that he's wanted to write like that, they were
23:42
Speaker 2: unable to under in the THEO years to really create
23:47
Speaker 2: this system that it's not like, it's not just trades,
23:50
Speaker 2: it's not just drafting in the top ten. They're they're
23:53
Speaker 2: able to ab been able to create, uh, get some talent,
23:58
Speaker 2: whether it's improvement in player development or amateur scouting or
24:02
Speaker 2: a combination of the two. It's a better that's better.
24:06
Speaker 2: It's not fixed, it's not perfect. Yeah, they need to
24:08
Speaker 2: they need to Like this is ultimately it gets back
24:11
Speaker 2: to what I'm saying, now you need to do now,
24:14
Speaker 2: you need to do something with it. It can't just
24:16
Speaker 2: be like call up oh in casey and you have
24:19
Speaker 2: a superstar pat in the middle of the lineup or
24:21
Speaker 2: something like that. Has to be more right, it has
24:23
Speaker 2: to be start using these guys to to acquire talent.
24:28
Speaker 2: It's not you know, not every team does that. I
24:30
Speaker 2: can't think of like it has Baltimore made a blockbuster
24:34
Speaker 2: I guess they did. They traded for Corbyn Burns. So
24:36
Speaker 2: even Baltimore is doing it a very very conservative organization
24:41
Speaker 2: in the sense that they they love their prospects, that
24:43
Speaker 2: built through prospects, that built through the draft, and and
24:47
Speaker 2: shrewd cell trades primarily to the draft. Through the draft,
24:51
Speaker 2: I believe they've done a remarkable job with it. But
24:56
Speaker 2: you have to also use that to your advantage. And
24:59
Speaker 2: it's not like they gave up nothing for Corbyn Barns.
25:01
Speaker 2: Joey Ortiz has been a stud for the Brewers. So
25:04
Speaker 2: you have to give up talent to get talent. It should.
25:08
Speaker 2: You have to hope that it pays off. You have
25:10
Speaker 2: to you have to be convicted, right, Like maybe Kintana
25:14
Speaker 2: wasn't the right pitcher to do that for maybe. I mean,
25:18
Speaker 2: I guess in hindsight we can say, yeah, it probably
25:20
Speaker 2: wasn't the right guy. That wasn't the right guy, right,
25:24
Speaker 2: But you know that they have to like you can't
25:27
Speaker 2: be scarred by those moves. You just have to learn
25:31
Speaker 2: from them. That doesn't mean you can't make them anymore.
25:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it circle back to a good point
25:37
Speaker 1: you made that to acquire a Pete Alonso, the price
25:42
Speaker 1: should not be that prohibitive, particularly closer towards the trade deadline,
25:47
Speaker 1: and that one of the hardest things to find in
25:51
Speaker 1: the middle of the season is what the Cubs have,
25:54
Speaker 1: and that's quality major league pitching. Death that could and
26:01
Speaker 1: the time this episode publishes, obviously Ben Brown just went
26:05
Speaker 1: on the injured list, But broadly speaking, I don't think
26:10
Speaker 1: either one of us can remember a time when the
26:12
Speaker 1: Cups said this much like interesting young pitching, not like
26:17
Speaker 1: knocking on the door, but like you know, walking into
26:20
Speaker 1: the clubhouse every day and contributing at the major league level,
26:25
Speaker 1: and so that I think gives them a baseline to
26:28
Speaker 1: be competitive almost every game, means that you probably don't
26:34
Speaker 1: have to be as desperate at the trade deadline. But like,
26:38
Speaker 1: this is a moment to me that you circle of
26:42
Speaker 1: like will the front office deliver, Like can they bring impact,
26:50
Speaker 1: make an impact on this roster? And they have the
26:54
Speaker 1: trade chips to do it, they seemingly have the motivation.
27:00
Speaker 1: I think we both have been a little taken Aback
27:04
Speaker 1: by how quickly this has turned and how just how
27:12
Speaker 1: focused people are right now in the front office. I
27:15
Speaker 1: think that's what happens when you change managers. That's what
27:18
Speaker 1: happens when you get another year into this. And I
27:21
Speaker 1: think that has been the balance that Jen Carterff always
27:25
Speaker 1: understood of like what is like the absolute best version
27:31
Speaker 1: of the Cubs? Is that being competitive for X number
27:35
Speaker 1: of years? Is it kind of going all in for
27:38
Speaker 1: a certain year? And how do you find that balance
27:40
Speaker 1: of like even if you love prospects X, Y, and Z,
27:44
Speaker 1: like when are they going to be like ready? Because
27:47
Speaker 1: they have this major league core that's competent and competitive
27:51
Speaker 1: and I think we both would say are pretty professional
27:55
Speaker 1: in their outlooks, like in terms of how they prepare
27:57
Speaker 1: and how they are baseball rats. Like, how do you
28:04
Speaker 1: merge those two very different things? Obviously you always need
28:08
Speaker 1: a supply of young talent coming in, but like, how
28:12
Speaker 1: do you get that right synthesis of kind of the
28:15
Speaker 1: old and the new and the veteranize and the young
28:18
Speaker 1: guys who are learning. But that's a hard thing to
28:23
Speaker 1: pull off. And that's kind of where I think things
28:26
Speaker 1: are gonna collie for the Cubs here over the next
28:28
Speaker 1: several weeks.
28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't think we're on
28:33
Speaker 2: the verge of seeing any moves, any trades that is
28:36
Speaker 2: for the Cubs. Maybe something smaller may come in the
28:40
Speaker 2: coming weeks, but I would be surprised if anything happens
28:44
Speaker 2: before July, anything of significance. So we've still got a
28:49
Speaker 2: few weeks before you can really ramp up that talk.
28:53
Speaker 2: Council may maybe a little snarky with his five weeks,
28:57
Speaker 2: but maybe maybe Sorry, Craig, he's probably he's probably right
29:02
Speaker 2: about that in general, Like, we're not going to see
29:05
Speaker 2: a flood of moves over the next few weeks. It's
29:07
Speaker 2: just not how it works, especially with the way the
29:10
Speaker 2: game is now, combination of the front offices and and
29:14
Speaker 2: the fact that there's three wild cards. Everybody's in it this. Yeah,
29:18
Speaker 2: Like go look at the standings. There's like five terrible
29:22
Speaker 2: teams and then five great teams, and then a bunch
29:26
Speaker 2: of mediocrity where the Cubs are stuck. Who's who's going
29:29
Speaker 2: to make the move, Who's going to get out of
29:31
Speaker 2: the run, Because I guarantee you there's nineteen other fan
29:34
Speaker 2: bases that are screaming about how awful their teams are
29:37
Speaker 2: right now and how frustrating it is to watch them,
29:40
Speaker 2: you know, well nineteen because the other five that are
29:43
Speaker 2: so bad or just despondent, like white Sox fans, they're
29:46
Speaker 2: not even they're not even that they're so upset about
29:49
Speaker 2: it that they you know, they've moved on to other
29:51
Speaker 2: things in their lives. Uh, yes, exactly. So I mean,
29:59
Speaker 2: and we will, We will get to our our fans
30:03
Speaker 2: that the Cubs fans that are that are upset, we are.
30:07
Speaker 2: Hopefully our next podcast will be discussing your questions and concerns, uh,
30:14
Speaker 2: because I mean, you guys have a lot, and and
30:17
Speaker 2: I get the anger and the frustration. Hopefully. I don't
30:22
Speaker 2: know if we can fix that for you, but I
30:24
Speaker 2: think we can at least address address them as best
30:27
Speaker 2: we can and and discuss it. Uh and I and
30:30
Speaker 2: maybe it can be therapeutic for you. But we can't.
30:35
Speaker 2: We can't deliver wins. That that's not that's not part
30:38
Speaker 2: of our job description. Uh. If we went on the field,
30:41
Speaker 2: it would be even uglier. So you don't want that. Uh.
30:44
Speaker 2: But yeah, Patrick, I think this is we summed up.
30:49
Speaker 2: You know, we way too early trade deadline talk. But
30:52
Speaker 2: it's gotta something's got to happen at some point because
30:55
Speaker 2: this isn't good enough. I don't know when the spark
30:58
Speaker 2: is going to come, if it's going to come. It
31:00
Speaker 2: happened around this time last year. It felt like yesterday
31:04
Speaker 2: was headed towards a win and and you know, another
31:07
Speaker 2: gut punch for for Cubs fans and for the Cubs.
31:10
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe maybe that's what this season will be.
31:14
Speaker 1: We'll be back.
31:16
Speaker 2: To you guys soon, I believe almost. I think in
31:20
Speaker 2: a day or two we'll have another podcast for you.
31:22
Speaker 2: And thanks so much for listening. This is Northside Territory.
31:25
Speaker 2: Make sure the rate reviews, subscribe to the podcast. Greet
31:29
Speaker 2: Patrick and I work at the Athletic and do all
31:32
Speaker 2: that good stuff. Make sure you're reading and ranting if
31:35
Speaker 2: you if you feel the need. Thanks so much for listening.
31:37
Speaker 2: I'll take care