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A veteran therapist’s warning to parents about gender distress · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:06
  Welcome to the unto take a deep breath.
• 0:11
  Take the higher roles.
• 0:13
  It's what they always say.
• 0:14
  Let's see if they know the way.
• 0:16
  They won't take it from me.
• 0:20
  Don't have a dumb self with swiping juice to dream.
• 0:24
  You made your own.
• 0:25
  So kid can scream.
• 0:29
  With a never-ending force.
• 0:31
  You never had the chance.
• 0:33
  So watch away for my friend because this is whole.
• 0:44
  It's time since welcome back to the Nurses Report.
• 0:56
  I'm your host today, Gayet Nurse Gail McCray.
• 0:59
  And here I am again, going on and on about our children because it's so important to me having children of my own.
• 1:07
  This is the world we're leaving our children to.
• 1:09
  And what is that world?
• 1:11
  How has it become what it is today?
• 1:13
  And I am not gonna stop hounding along on this topic.
• 1:17
  So joining me today for a discussion more about this and about the direction that our children are heading, the uh potential indoctrination, the things that are happening to our kids in schools.
• 1:31
  I'm here to discuss those topics with me today.
• 1:34
  Is Pamela Garfield Yeager?
• 1:37
  She is a counselor and also uh runs a Substack, and she's doing all kinds of amazing things out there in the world to bring awareness to what's going on around the psychology of children.
• 1:50
  So if you could, Pamela, give us a little more background on you and why um what you're doing, why you started your substack and uh what your interest is in continuing to bring this work forward.
• 2:05
  Hi, thank you for having me.
• 2:07
  So yeah, I'm a licensed therapist.
• 2:09
  Um, my license is from California.
• 2:12
  I've actually since left California, but that's where I'm licensed.
• 2:15
  And I've been in the field since the late 90s, so 25 years or so.
• 2:21
  It's been a while, and I have a vast experience, kind of just live my life, and then you know, 2020 came and things went crazy, and uh, and I really noticed some changes.
• 2:35
  Really, what happened was I actually had a disability and I left work in 2016.
• 2:40
  And when I came back in 2020, 2021, I observed the madness.
• 2:46
  So I was in this new clinic with these teenagers, and half the girls were identifying as transgender, and all of my colleagues were completely supporting their identities, they were affirming it, and they were demonizing the parents for questioning it.
• 3:01
  And then, of course, all the COVID madness was still happening at the time.
• 3:05
  They were, I remember the vaccines were being rolled out at that time, and all the counselors were so excited to see these minors getting vaccines that they knew nothing about, and we were still masking, we were doing group therapy with masks on, which was insane.
• 3:21
  We were wiping down all the chairs, even though we knew that it was an airborne illness, but we were still forced to do it anyway, and nobody was saying anything, nobody questioned it, and I just I don't know, I was going mad.
• 3:33
  And then really what happened was that was a part-time job.
• 3:36
  I couldn't even work full-time because I was coming back from this nerve injury that I had, and I was struggling physically anyway, and they were imposed the vaccine on me.
• 3:45
  So I decided not to keep working there because I had to get vaccinated to continue.
• 3:51
  So I left feeling extremely displaced, extremely demoralized, and I decided I had nothing left to lose.
• 3:58
  So I started to speak out.
• 4:00
  I started to talk about these issues.
• 4:01
  I started to talk about how mental health has gone awry, specifically about the trans issue because that was the most glaring thing.
• 4:08
  Uh, but generally speaking, there's there's more than that.
• 4:11
  It's it's broader than that.
• 4:12
  But that's that's the biggest thing I've discussed.
• 4:15
  And that's yeah, my substack, I think started maybe a year later.
• 4:18
  But I started off actually doing Instagram reels, just event just to get it off my chest, and then people noticed me, and I started to meet people, other like-minded therapists, a lot of people who told me how I was helping them feel courage to say similar things, or at least help them feel less crazy.
• 4:35
  And so that yeah, and that motivated me to keep going.
• 4:39
  And I realized I found this little niche.
• 4:41
  Um, and I realized that there was a big gap in what parents needed, what families needed, and even what adults need within the mental health field.
• 4:49
  So I decided to start building materials for them.
• 4:52
  Yeah, wow, what a journey.
• 4:54
  And it's so interesting uh to hear from the perspective of somebody who was absent for that period of time.
• 5:02
  I think that that's a really important thing to touch on in the understanding of how we've gotten from where we were to where we are today.
• 5:12
  Um, and you it's it's almost like my experience being homeschooled and how it gave me a very different view of what happened during COVID.
• 5:21
  It it seemed it sounds like there was kind of a similar kind of circumstance for you having been absent during a period of time when I always refer back to the book by Matthias Desman called Mass Formation or The Psychology of Totalitarianism about mass formation and about how there was just there was an opportunity during COVID where people's minds, you know, they were traumatized and put into a fear response and then offered solutions that you know facilitated so many atrocities that you know and and losses of liberty that have taken place since then.
• 6:04
  And it's almost like you really got a front row seat of that, being absent during that time period when the craziness really got ramped up.
• 6:16
  What do you see as being the relation there between uh your absence and um and then the revelation of what was happening had happened during your absence?
• 6:28
  It's such a quick shift.
• 6:30
  Yeah, it was it was strange.
• 6:32
  I felt like I was in the twilight zone.
• 6:33
  I certainly had that feeling.
• 6:36
  And um, I think what was different about me, I realized than a lot of other people was my life didn't change a whole lot during the lockdowns and during the whole, you know, at least initially during the COVID era, because honestly, I had lost so much from being on disability and from being in pretty serious chronic pain.
• 6:56
  I had this nerve injury where um my brachial plexus was crushing on my nerves, and I had to get two surgeries.
• 7:04
  I had and I had to get my top rib removed.
• 7:07
  It's a rare condition called the Rasic Outlet syndrome, and it was pretty awful, and uh I went through an odyssey with doctors, so I'd already developed a mistrust in the healthcare system.
• 7:18
  So I think that piece blended a hand in my perspective, but also I think the fact that I was already sort of isolated from the world, and I didn't lose the rug was not pulled out for me in the same way as everyone else's because it was pulled out for me a few years before that.
• 7:37
  So I was already home, and I remember even I was in a lot of online communities and such with people who have serious chronic pain, which is really where I was at at that time, and a lot of people were putting out these memes like welcome to what it's like for us.
• 7:49
  We're oh, you can't go to your soccer game now because of an unexpected thing.
• 7:54
  That's what it's like when you have a chronic condition.
• 7:56
  You can't plan your life, and you become isolated.
• 7:59
  So we were, I remember a lot of us were kind of feeling like, well, welcome to our world.
• 8:02
  We're stuck at home, we've been stuck at home for you know, for me, it was already like three years.
• 8:07
  I was stuck at home pretty much.
• 8:09
  Um, when I tried to go out, it was difficult.
• 8:11
  So I just didn't have the same, you know, jolted loss, I think that the rest of the world did.
• 8:17
  So it didn't, it didn't impact me the same way.
• 8:19
  I didn't freak out because I was like, well, not much changed about my life.
• 8:24
  I was still home on you know, March of 20, the early March of 2020 and home at the end of March of 2020, and it was pretty much the same.
• 8:32
  The only thing that changed in a way was better for me, is then everyone else was home too.
• 8:37
  So I got to hang out with people because I was left behind originally.
• 8:40
  It was me and the and the pets before.
• 8:42
  Right.
• 8:43
  So um it's interesting.
• 8:44
  I didn't have that your response, yeah.
• 8:47
  Yeah, it's interesting.
• 8:48
  And that's another thing that I have really come to understand about the differences between the people who have the courage to speak up and those that don't.
• 8:58
  We have, in a sense, you know, every single one of us who have come forward to speak out about topics that contradict the norms of society.
• 9:12
  We don't do so because we're contrary, or because we're weirdos, or because we're crazy.
• 9:19
  What I've learned is that we do so because we've been through experiences that give us the practice and exercise and developing the um the mental muscle memory, or the mental strength to um withstand the pressure of you know being different from everyone else, or whatever the circumstances are, there's always some sort of trauma that's that's associated with the individuals who speak out with developing their ability to do so.
• 10:00
  So and so it it was well, one of the first interviews I went on when I was when it was shortly after uh COVID, I forget the woman's name, but she was in her late 60s and she was an international um psychologist, psychiatrist.
• 10:18
  Um I'm gonna totally blow it on who she is, but off camera, that's what she the first thing she said to me.
• 10:25
  She's like, you know, Gail, um I know that you're here to speak out, but I want you to spill the beans and tell me what was it that happened to you in your life that prepared you to stand up and speak out about difficult conversations because that's what she said to me.
• 10:42
  She's like, because what I've learned is that inevitably every single one of you has been through something that prepared you to endure.
• 10:53
  That's so interesting.
• 10:55
  And was what's amazing, and I have to really just remember and continue to have so much gratitude for the fact that I did find those specialized doctors and found the surgery.
• 11:05
  It was a big odyssey, lots of doctors never believed me, and I had to do a lot of self advocacy to get there.
• 11:11
  Yeah.
• 11:11
  Um, but I'm I'm not 100%, but I'm a lot better.
• 11:15
  I mean, during that time it would have been hard for me to just sit on this couch and talk to you without like my neck and everything my arms and hands screaming at me in pain.
• 11:23
  Yeah.
• 11:24
  Um, and I felt very uh powerless.
• 11:27
  I felt very just you know I did I felt like I had no voice whatsoever, and even in the initial days of the lockdowns as a mental health person, I didn't wasn't working or anything, and I I noticed that nobody was speaking out, and I felt so powerless, and I hadn't been in a job for a while.
• 11:44
  I couldn't talk to anybody, and now here I am, you know, talking to you and been on the news and things like that.
• 11:50
  It's it's kind of crazy.
• 11:52
  And it's a night, I mean, I have to just have so much gratitude that I've developed a voice because I'm you know, first of all, it's not my temperament to be outspoken.
• 12:02
  I noticed that too.
• 12:03
  That's sort of a trend.
• 12:04
  You think there's certain people I think that are looking for the microphone, but that certainly wasn't me, and it's not me now.
• 12:10
  Uh, but it it's because I just um had not much to lose anymore.
• 12:16
  I lost a lot of friends, a lot of people showed me their true colors and they weren't pretty.
• 12:20
  And then I lost my career anyway.
• 12:23
  I know people were really worried about their careers.
• 12:26
  I I had a big pretty thriving career.
• 12:28
  I was actually the job I had to leave was at UCSF.
• 12:31
  It was really the best salaried job I'd ever gotten with really good benefits.
• 12:36
  In fact, I was lucky enough to get disability payments.
• 12:39
  That's the other reason why I was in you know emboldened and able to speak out because I'm getting disability.
• 12:44
  Um I had all these great things I finally achieved, and then it got taken right out of me when I I it basically was a repetitive stress injury when I came up with that.
• 12:53
  But yeah, and then years went by and I was still struggling, and but here I am gratitude, and you're right.
• 12:59
  I I never really heard it framed that way before, but you're completely right, and I am a prime example of that.
• 13:05
  Yeah, yeah, it's it was she when she said that to me, it really changed my life because I was like you, you know, I was not ever born as one of those people to speak out, but then you know, at the end of the day, when you go through traumas and you learn how to use your voice, everything changes.
• 13:25
  So congratulations.
• 13:27
  Thank you.
• 13:28
  I know I've always been really shy and scared of public speaking.
• 13:31
  I'd say of all the things in the world, public speaking is was always the scariest thing for me.
• 13:37
  So that's why it's wild that I'm doing this.
• 13:39
  My parents still they're they're still shocked by it.
• 13:42
  They don't they're always like, Who is this woman?
• 13:45
  You're not my daughter.
• 13:46
  They yeah.
• 13:46
  Because I've always my mom is actually like a theater person, and she was like being on stage, and I was always the one that was like, I don't like that stuff.
• 13:53
  I don't like being on stage.
• 13:54
  And so the fact that I'm like sort of on stage more than her at this point is she's having trouble processing that.
• 14:01
  Yeah, and it's our passions and our love, really.
• 14:05
  That's what I what I have come to.
• 14:07
  It's like it that's it's our love that brings us to this place where we're willing to overcome our fears.
• 14:13
  And so I also want to acknowledge that in you, and and then in like stem that into the next question like what was it about your love and the love that you had for humanity that really inspired you to develop this um contrary skill which you're now thriving in.
• 14:35
  Well, I mean, I became a a social, I was a social worker, which now to me is not a good thing because social workers have been completely captured by like Marxist ideology, they're really more revolutionists as opposed to people that want to help.
• 14:49
  Um maybe they want to help, but I don't believe they are helping.
• 14:52
  And but I became a social worker because I believed in you know helping people who you know were struggling, people who needed more, you know, more help than others, and so on.
• 15:05
  I worked a lot with foster kids.
• 15:07
  I work with uh like people who lived in the inner city in New York City.
• 15:11
  I used to do home visits.
• 15:12
  I've worked in inpatient and outpatient programs in California for um you know mental health.
• 15:19
  I've done clinical supervision and in schools, some inner city schools, some more affluent schools, and I've worked with so many different kids and adults who've really struggled, and I've I've sort of seen that world and I've seen people really struggle, and then I saw how the mental health field has been captured, been overtaken, and is actually doing more damage in most cases, and I felt compelled, I felt called to have to speak up because I didn't want to see something that I cared about so much.
• 15:49
  Obviously, the people that I served and also the profession at large that is gonna serve the future people to just continue to do damage.
• 15:58
  I felt like I was I was almost called to help course correct.
• 16:03
  Right.
• 16:05
  It's a big following for us to step into that calling, and it's it's you know, it's the way I I'm happier.
• 16:15
  I I don't know if you can resonate with that, but I feel that when we answer that calling, we end up being more uh fulfilled and uh just feeling um gratitude for having showing yourself that you had the courage to do that and yeah, just move.
• 16:40
  I feel a lot of gratitude.
• 16:41
  Yeah, I feel really lucky that I'm in this position.
• 16:44
  I know there are a lot of people that would be in this position if they maybe were in the similar circumstances.
• 16:50
  I mean, I went through kind of hell and back with the disability, but to be able to kind of have this circumstance where I had less to lose and I could speak out.
• 17:01
  I could speak on behalf of other people that perhaps were more of the primary breadwinner in their home, and they it's they had more to risk, and I don't knock them for having to kind of lay low to provide health care health insurance for their children.
• 17:17
  I don't I don't I'm lucky I don't have that.
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:19
  Um so I was able to be a voice for others and also embolden others, which makes me feel really good.
• 17:28
  Right.
• 17:29
  So I'll you came you so you've been doing this now for several years, writing up on this Substack and speaking publicly.
• 17:39
  Um how would you say the your experience from then until now has shifted in the space of um I want to get into the discussion around our children and transitioning?
• 17:54
  Um what do you think has changed?
• 17:57
  It's like you've kind of seen it, like you said, you've been in it for 30, you know, 20 plus years.
• 18:02
  You've really seen like the full scope of you know what transitioning was at the beginning and where it's come to today.
• 18:11
  Um what do you think about how that process has happened and and where we might move forward from here?
• 18:20
  Well, I mean, if we're talking about like when I first started in my career, like in the late 90s, this was barely a thing.
• 18:27
  It was not something I had put a lot of thought into or really encountered.
• 18:31
  It's not something that most people really talked about.
• 18:35
  It was not mainstream whatsoever.
• 18:36
  I know it existed on the fringes, but it certainly wasn't something people were doing and marketing and it was not put on children for sure.
• 18:48
  Um I think it got it gained some steam during or most steam when I was on that disability period of time.
• 18:54
  I think between 2016 through 2021 is when it started to really pick up steam.
• 19:00
  That's what I hear.
• 19:01
  2015 was sort of the dropping point where trans became more popular.
• 19:06
  There was kind of kind of that mission drift in a lot of nonprofits when gay marriage became legal and they had to have a new campaign.
• 19:16
  That would that's one of the theories on why uh it's certainly a top-down operation.
• 19:21
  There's a lot a lot of funding that's been placed into it.
• 19:24
  It's not it's not natural that this has happened, but I think most people who are just really not paying attention or not thinking about it, and they just kind of go along with it, and then there is sort of that you know, mass psychosis thing that we just talked about before, like with COVID, but also like with the gender, where if you're the experts sort of just tell them something, they just kind of carry on.
• 19:46
  So that all just kept that all progressed.
• 19:49
  So I don't know what so from the beginning of my career, it went from like nothing to like craziness, and but now there's a couple.
• 20:00
  Lawsuits, right?
• 20:02
  Yeah.
• 20:02
  So for when I started speaking out till now, which is about a five-year time span, things have also shifted.
• 20:09
  I'd say for the positive in terms of awareness and more people who are willing to speak out.
• 20:14
  There's a lot more uh just there's a huge when it comes to the gender issue, there's a huge community now of people who are fighting against it.
• 20:24
  Uh bigger entities are behind it.
• 20:27
  We obviously now have the federal government that is helping uh the Federal Trade Commission is doing an entire investigation against the gender doctors who have misled their patients and caused harm.
• 20:37
  And yes, there are lawsuits.
• 20:39
  One lawsuit's already come through.
• 20:42
  A woman in New York has won two million dollars, and that has led two medical organizations to finally admit or like shift course a little bit.
• 20:51
  The AMA, the American Medical Association, the president made a statement saying something about how they don't think we should be transitioning minors, and then the American physical plastic surgery association.
• 21:05
  I'm not sure if I'm getting that acronym correct, but the association for plastic surgeons, they've made a statement that they do not believe in plastic surgery, or basically this is cosmetic surgery for children and turn in the name of gender.
• 21:19
  And so that's caused a huge rift, and that they've all been in lockstep together, all of these associations, and that's been one of the biggest challenges is everyone will just say, Well, the experts say this, right?
• 21:29
  Uh still the American Psychological Association is on board with it.
• 21:34
  The I'm a social worker, the National Association of Social Workers is on board with it, the marriage and family therapists are on board with it.
• 21:41
  Um the endocrine society is still on board with it.
• 21:44
  I can't think of all the other associations, but there are so many.
• 21:47
  Oh, yeah, the pediatric association, they're the biggest one.
• 21:50
  They're still very much on board with it.
• 21:53
  And um, they have a lot of money, they have a lot of funding, they have a lot of lobbyists behind them.
• 21:58
  There's a they have a lot of power.
• 22:00
  And they haven't budged yet, but I know that they're they're watching, and they I I believe they know exactly what they're doing, and we'll see.
• 22:09
  I'm not sure how it's gonna go down.
• 22:11
  It's gonna be very interesting.
• 22:12
  Um, but yeah, now I forgot what I was saying.
• 22:16
  Yeah, just along this path of getting there's been a shift, yeah.
• 22:21
  There's been a shift, and oh yeah, so now I was gonna say is there are 30 more approximately 30 more lawsuits in the pipeline for detransitioners.
• 22:30
  There are other lawsuits too for families who have been torn apart, you know, family rights type uh parental rights lawsuits.
• 22:39
  So there are legal companies that have been cut, you know, brought together because of this.
• 22:43
  There they're you know, like lawyers that have quit their jobs to dedicate themselves to this.
• 22:48
  There are a many more coalitions of more powerful people that are on our side, we'll say, or just on the side of truth and that are working towards us that even five years ago was not there.
• 23:01
  Right.
• 23:02
  Yeah, it wasn't there.
• 23:04
  I'm really excited for these lawsuits.
• 23:07
  Um you talk a lot about these kinds of topics in your substack.
• 23:13
  Um, what do you what do you think is the most important topic right now for parents to be paying attention to in terms of protecting and uh their children and understanding the impacts of the transgender ideologies?
• 23:32
  Well, the biggest thing I my I'd say my overarching message for parents is for them to always stay involved and to question experts and to never just you know give give their kids over to a professional, even someone that they really like that you should always be heavily involved and use your own judgment on things because I think the biggest problem, and I think one of the reasons we've gotten here is because so many people, and I'll even put myself in this category.
• 24:04
  We sort of uh export our own thinking to an expert and to academics and to someone with a lot of letters, especially when you're feeling vulnerable when your family's in crisis, something like that.
• 24:17
  You think, oh, well, this person's gonna help me.
• 24:20
  So my overarching theme is for you to just stay vigilant and stay involved and never let an expert take over your family.
• 24:33
  Yeah, it's it's so interesting because I feel like this bleeds over into every aspect of humanity where we give away our autonomy and our sovereignty.
• 24:44
  Um, a lot of the times we do it for the acceptance of our peers, or because we don't personally feel valued and um knowledgeable and uh you know, whatever the whatever the self-talk is that diminishes our own individual capacity that ends up leading us into giving away our power.
• 25:07
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  And it's so interesting.
• 25:09
  Um I talk, I I feel like there's so much relationship to that for me in terms of like how I was I was able to stand up against uh the things that were happening in the hospitals during COVID.
• 25:23
  Again, it was because I was homeschooled, but what I always come back to was that there was that time period in high school in my life where I didn't have the luxury of gaining approval and acceptance from my peers.
• 25:41
  Yeah, and it wasn't drive you to years, right?
• 25:44
  Where it really forced, yeah, it forced me to develop that self-autonomy.
• 25:52
  And I don't and then I look around and I see all of my peers, and it sounds it just sounds like this is the mindset throughout every field is that we have all these people, all these professionals who you know, they saw their their autonomy, they saw their value and self-worth for the acceptance of their peers, or for the um status status of their organization, right?
• 26:22
  Or for the um, you know, to help them get higher up in their field.
• 26:31
  And it's so fascinating to really pick that apart and just understand and try and comprehend like well, what is it that we're actually giving up and what are the actual deeper impacts?
• 26:42
  And that's where I feel like this conversation is so invaluable in in understanding how the transgender and transitioning conversation really came to be what it is today.
• 26:58
  It's interesting to hear you link it back to autonomy and family.
• 27:04
  Yeah.
• 27:05
  Because it's a lot about denying your instincts and denying what you know is true to be kind or to go along and get along.
• 27:13
  Yeah, just to skate by.
• 27:16
  And sometimes you have to choose your battles, that's true, but because we've given up so much, that's a lot of why we've landed where we are today, because people think it's not a big deal.
• 27:28
  I talk a lot about the pronouns, because even people who know that this is a problem, they would never put uh medicalize a child, but they might think about just allowing them to use across a different hor a different, excuse me, a different pronoun, or prompt them to do pronouns, or just let someone else do it and not think it's a big deal.
• 27:49
  But I talk a lot about why it is actually a big deal.
• 27:52
  It's a problem for those children that are choosing new pronouns because it's impacting their sense of identity, it's impacting their you know, their whole world view, but it's also impacting the children around them because then they have to adjust, and then they have to lie, or they have to figure out how they're gonna deal with that and how are they gonna relate to each other?
• 28:15
  You think about this is the time when they're learning how to be social with each other, and if they're having these pronouns and these new names and these news that new identities constantly changing, there's no way they can make genuine connections and learn how to relate to each other and connect with each other, you know, as they grow up, because that's what they're supposed to be learning as children.
• 28:35
  Absolutely.
• 28:36
  That is so fascinating, and it's such a deep discussion.
• 28:40
  And then I guess my question is like did anybody have these conversations and discussions before we started implementing transitioning and they and and pronouns into our younger children.
• 28:57
  I mean nothing was discussed, it was very tyrannical, right?
• 29:00
  Just like masks, you know, everybody just has to wear a mask, no questions asked.
• 29:04
  And I think it's very similar.
• 29:06
  And it's very similar in the same way, where I think a lot of us, myself included, were like, well, it's just a mask.
• 29:12
  I just have to wear it to just get my food in the grocery store and go home.
• 29:16
  But it's not just a mask.
• 29:17
  We all know it wasn't just a mask.
• 29:19
  And I lived in California, it went on for years.
• 29:21
  And in fact, right now, even my own health care centers requiring it for their employees to wear masks.
• 29:27
  And I mean, happily they're not enforcing it on the patients, but it impacts me when I can't see my provider's face, and when they're talking to me, it's it's a big deal.
• 29:37
  It's a problem.
• 29:38
  Absolutely.
• 29:40
  It's a big problem.
• 29:41
  And it's it's funny, you know, like with the mask thing, you know, Fauci was like, oh yeah, do it.
• 29:48
  It's it's evidence based, but then it comes out years later, Cochrane releases their study showing that there is no we I mean, we always knew that there.
• 30:00
  Was no evidence to support wearing masks.
• 30:03
  Especially these cloth masks or you know, the the gators, things like that.
• 30:08
  Oh, and people were so hard.
• 30:11
  It was so hard on my patients.
• 30:13
  Like elderly people who are already hard of hearing, and then having a practitioners, it's like there's it completely disconnects us.
• 30:23
  And that's one of the things.
• 30:24
  It's like we're not taking the time to really deeply assess and evaluate the intricacies of human engagement and connection.
• 30:36
  And it's importance.
• 30:37
  Yeah.
• 30:38
  And it's important.
• 30:39
  And on a on like this most subtle levels with our children.
• 30:44
  I mean, I would love to hear more about what you understand to be.
• 30:48
  Uh we'll we'll do we'll turn touch into this when we get back from break, but what you seem to be um understanding about those subtle impacts on our children.
• 30:59
  Like, what do what does what are the long-lasting impacts of those um those subtle changes and shifts we have on our we we put on to our kids?
• 31:09
  So we'll come back from break and answer that question.
• 31:12
  I really want to get more deeply into this and then talk more about your substacks.
• 31:16
  So we'll be right back.
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  All right.
• 33:42
  Welcome back to the Nurses Report with Gail McRae.
• 33:45
  I'm here with Pamela, a uh therapist who uh has spoken out loudly for many years about uh her experience and knowledge and background uh in her field related to uh the transitioning of children and the evolution of that uh process.
• 34:08
  And uh just before break, we were having a really interesting conversation about the details because this is really what made me stand out and uh stand up during COVID is that I always fixate on the details, and I was like, why are they telling us not to inject steroids like this makes no rational sense?
• 34:31
  And then I go down the rabbit hole and find the details, and then I'd be like, Well, there is no rational sense.
• 34:36
  Of course, we should be a highly in do in injecting high doses of steroids for the most inflammatory disease we've ever seen.
• 34:43
  So it's my it's my my my jam to get into this, and I really want to get into it and understand the impact on our kids.
• 34:51
  So we were talking about the messaging of using pronouns and all of these little things like wearing masks and what the deeper impacts of those kinds of of um violations, because that's kind of like what I feel about it.
• 35:07
  Like I started really deep diving into um ethics and courage and courageous engagement, and what I've kind of found to understand is that it starts when you're a kid and we allow or we're forced into these little ethical violations, and it really sets us up for a lifetime of allowing violations to occur.
• 35:33
  Do you think that that's kind of in a sense, like what a lot of these types of things like um forcing children to call each other a gender that they're not?
• 35:48
  Um just things like that that are clear violations.
• 35:51
  Is that what you experience?
• 35:53
  What do you what do you see as being some of the most impactful and long-term outcomes from these little subtle things that we're doing?
• 36:03
  Well, there's a lot of fallout from it.
• 36:05
  I think one thing we're doing is we're teaching children not to trust their own instincts, and that they're when they don't, when they have wrong think that they can't speak up and they're demonized for that.
• 36:17
  That is so dangerous.
• 36:19
  Yeah, so that's I think that's one of the biggest messages.
• 36:22
  Happily, some of them are breaking through.
• 36:25
  I think one of the areas we're seeing that is in the sports issue.
• 36:29
  We're seeing some more kids standing up for their rights in sports, especially the girls who have been forced to play with a boy on their team who calls themselves transgender.
• 36:39
  There has been a bigger support for that.
• 36:42
  So I think that's been a breakthrough.
• 36:45
  However, it's still really difficult.
• 36:47
  I think it really divides kids in a way that should they shouldn't be divided.
• 36:51
  I mean, I can't imagine it's hard enough when you're a teenager and you're just in your own different cliques and you're just trying to get along and figure things out, and then you're divided by who's an anti-masker and who's for pronouns and who's against pronouns and who's for this and who's for that.
• 37:07
  And the adults are egging it on, they're egging on this division, and they're raising certain kids for using the pronouns and demonizing other kids for not using the pronouns.
• 37:18
  And they're kids, they they shouldn't have to withstand that.
• 37:20
  The adults should be the adults in the room.
• 37:23
  It's also really reinforcing this sort of victimhood narrative.
• 37:28
  When you've got someone that's decided that they have an alternate pronoun that they should be celebrated for that, and if they're not celebrated for that, then they're a victim of some sort because they want to opt in uh to a victim's class.
• 37:41
  Perhaps if they have lighter skin and they're told that they're an oppressor, that's like a really good opt-out for not being this horrible oppressive white person.
• 37:50
  That's the narrative that they're giving.
• 37:51
  And these are such harmful messages for children, uh, both on the individual and group level.
• 37:57
  Uh, those are some examples, but I I yeah, we could think of more.
• 38:01
  It's I think it's just so damaging on so many different levels.
• 38:05
  It really is.
• 38:07
  That is such an uh profound uh thing to resonate with.
• 38:11
  I I feel that the biggest problem is is that we don't spend enough time really resonating in with the true impacts of these things that are happening.
• 38:22
  That's really the purpose for me for doing these shows.
• 38:26
  I really want my listeners to really deeply settle into the reality of what happens when you tell a child, you know, when you praise them or demonize them for things like pronouns and uh forcing them to call somebody a gender that they're not, like you said, not trusting themselves and the impacts that that has, you know, then we we grow up into adults that don't trust ourselves.
• 38:59
  And then what happens?
• 39:01
  We enter into professional fields where we don't we don't trust ourselves, we don't have the courage to um pursue higher goals because we don't trust our capacities and abilities to do so.
• 39:17
  I mean, there's such a huge fallout.
• 39:19
  I I can't really fully grasp um the potential damages that we're doing.
• 39:26
  And then on the other hand, what we're also doing is we're sort of encouraging this narcissism because we're teaching kids to constantly focus on our themselves that they're that the world needs to cater to them and that they need to use this new name and this new pronoun.
• 39:42
  And and if they don't, that makes everybody else like a bigot or a transphobe or something like that.
• 39:47
  So you you're taking these kids who already feel usually pretty powerless, and you give them this weapon that you know, I'm a trans person now, and if you don't do this, you're a bad person.
• 39:59
  I no longer have.
• 40:00
  To take responsibility for myself.
• 40:02
  And I noticed this trend a lot with the teenagers who were really struggling.
• 40:06
  They didn't, you know, they're they weren't bad kids, but they were given this message, and then they got to avoid their own issues, and they got to kind of boss around the adults because the adults were no longer the adults.
• 40:17
  And it actually created more anxiety for them because they needed someone to just set them straight.
• 40:23
  You know, sometimes they're testing you.
• 40:25
  They're like, come on, I'm playing here.
• 40:29
  Send me straight, right?
• 40:30
  Like, how far can I go?
• 40:31
  That's we know that kids do that.
• 40:33
  And when the adults don't do that anymore, it could cause real problems with them for them psychologically.
• 40:39
  So interesting.
• 40:41
  Well, I I feel your optimism in a sense, because like you were mentioning, like things are changing.
• 40:47
  And that note, like hot off the press with your new um article about um how those who were once marginalized are now leading the fight against gender ideology.
• 41:01
  Um I do feel that things are changing um with that lawsuit.
• 41:07
  Um but walk me down uh this this storyline.
• 41:12
  Um and you know, where you suspect we might be moving.
• 41:19
  Yeah, so for one, there was that uh lawsuit.
• 41:22
  There was a so that my article was about detransitioners, and for those who are familiar with that term, that means there are people that once believed that they were transgender, or perhaps they even believe they were trapped in the wrong body, which is a lie, and they were led down the path of taking cross-sex hormones and getting surgeries, and a lot of them have experienced pretty serious consequences, both physically and emotionally, and when they did speak out or even try to say anything in the past, they would get heavily demonized, they'd be told to go kill themselves, they'd be told that they're horrible, that they're liars, they told just awful, awful.
• 42:04
  Wait a minute.
• 42:05
  Can we stop there and just listen to that one more time?
• 42:10
  So the kids that transitioned, and then years went by and they felt and found that they'd made a mistake, and then they detransitioned and tried to go back to their gender, and they were attacked viciously and told to kill themselves.
• 42:28
  Yes.
• 42:29
  How many I mean, I because I've seen it pretty much everyone has said that.
• 42:34
  And I've seen the messages myself, yes.
• 42:37
  Every single one that we know of.
• 42:39
  Pretty much.
• 42:40
  Any anyone who specially has more of a prominent voice has been told that.
• 42:45
  Maybe even ones that aren't prominent, but I don't haven't seen everybody's DMs, but I've seen enough to know that that's a common thing.
• 42:52
  Why do you think our culture is doing that to these people who are coming back to uh redeciding?
• 43:02
  Well, the people who are doing that are the people that are continuing to believe that they are trans, and what's happening is the detransitioners they shine a really big mirror in their faces of truth, and those people who who are not ready and not able to face that truth, they get really angry.
• 43:19
  That's their response because that shatters their entire sense of self.
• 43:24
  And because they've created this whole false sense of self, and so they're kind of crumbling inside, and that's how they lash out.
• 43:33
  I've seen this too with parents.
• 43:35
  Actually, there was a viral video.
• 43:37
  A woman who I'm friends with, her name is Beth Bourne.
• 43:40
  She videotaped herself at a rally with a mom who transitioned her child.
• 43:45
  There's those parents too, and they're dysfunctional in a whole other horrible way where the parents are really the ones leading the charge, not the children.
• 43:53
  Yeah.
• 43:54
  And Beth was at this rally, it's all on video.
• 43:58
  It was viral on Twitter like a couple weeks ago.
• 44:00
  And she was basically confronting this mom about what her child was gonna go through and what the surgeries look like, and does you know what does this mean for your child?
• 44:11
  And then the the woman on the video said something like, go kill yourself, or you're gonna I'm gonna go kill you.
• 44:18
  Uh something, you know, some kind of attack to the point where the police actually had to get involved because it was on video, she filed a report for it.
• 44:27
  And it was an interesting dynamic because you could see what was happening was that woman who felt maybe that she was doing the right thing.
• 44:34
  I'll try to give her the benefit of the doubt.
• 44:36
  Right.
• 44:37
  Um at the very least, she wasn't facing the evil that she wasn't participating in.
• 44:43
  And Beth was putting that mirror up for that for that woman, and she couldn't tolerate it.
• 44:48
  So instead of saying, Well, thank you for showing me the light, oh, I'm so grateful.
• 44:53
  No, she threatened Beth instead, and that's what happens.
• 44:57
  So you've got these people who already are pretty mentally unstable.
• 45:01
  The people who go into trance, and this even includes to the detransitioners, they've gotten there because of a vulnerability.
• 45:07
  That all this is about is preying on some kind of vulnerability, right?
• 45:11
  And usually it's trauma.
• 45:12
  That's usually a theme.
• 45:14
  So you've got someone who's got some trauma, and instead of facing that trauma and working through it and you know, doing the hard work that that involves, they're told, well, if they do these procedures and they go through this new identity process, and they're they'll be fixed and they'll feel better.
• 45:30
  It's sort of like a magic wand.
• 45:32
  Right.
• 45:32
  And it doesn't work, of course, but they kind of have this, it covers it up.
• 45:36
  It's like kicking the can down the road.
• 45:39
  So you got these already uh in under the surface, people who are fairly unstable, and then you're shining this mirror in front of them because what detransitioners really are, they're not really trying detransitioning from anything, they're the same people, but what they're doing is they're shining a big light of truth out there, like they're basically showing not just that they've made a mistake or that they have some regret, but they're exposing the fact that the entire narrative is a complete lie, it's a complete farce, and it's all all a scam.
• 46:13
  That's what they're doing.
• 46:14
  And the people who see that can't tolerate it, so they get angry instead of facing the truth.
• 46:19
  Yeah, I definitely think it's really important that people understand that it's not that any of us think that they're the transitioning is bad, you know.
• 46:30
  I think like that's like a lot of the misconception that gets put on to this conversation that we're having.
• 46:37
  That really has nothing to do with it.
• 46:40
  This conversation is really about concern and care, you know, like from the outside, from people like you who are deep diving into the facts and the truth about the mental sadness and the neurological patterning and pathways that lead people to these choices.
• 47:02
  You're just trying to bring awareness to the fact that we might have it wrong and the cost of that um of that truth.
• 47:13
  Like it's a really heavy burden.
• 47:17
  And um, you know, and so that's something like I think it's really important for us to remember to to say is that we love transitioners, you know, like this is not like this is not so what I'm against.
• 47:34
  I am I think maybe I disagree a little because I do think transitioning is bad.
• 47:38
  I don't think the people who transition are bad, right?
• 47:42
  So I I it's I I actually when I speak out a lot of times, it's really I have concerns for the people who have transitioned because I now know what this means for them, that they've they've set themselves up for a cascade of health problems and a cascade of more psychological problems and isolation, and that most of the people that they think are their friends are really fake friends, they call them glitter families, and they're very conditional because they have to follow all these rules that basically very cult-like.
• 48:13
  So I feel for those people.
• 48:15
  Um so really we're not against trans people, but what I'm against is the ideology, the ideas behind it and the procedures and what you know, the barbaric surgeries that are placed upon them, and then they're given these false promises that these very painful surgeries are gonna fix their mental problems, and that we know that's is completely lie, uh not true at all.
• 48:39
  And you could even just pull it back and think about plastic surgery.
• 48:43
  Think about people who have like addicted to plastic surgery.
• 48:45
  It is a little bit of a similar psychology.
• 48:48
  If you look at most of people that have a lot of plastic surgery, like Pamela Anderson, for example, um, she's admitted this in a documentary she was in that she she's had sexual abuse in her past, you know, she had those uh you know breast implants and all that.
• 49:03
  I believe it's pretty connected to that.
• 49:05
  You know, you're trying to fix an inside job with an outside job, right?
• 49:09
  And it's it's a similar thing.
• 49:11
  You you just can't do that.
• 49:12
  You can't fix what's inside by fixing the outside.
• 49:15
  It doesn't work.
• 49:17
  And this is why I I talk because I want to help those people learn that, and we know that it's it's harder, it's not as easy.
• 49:25
  You know, it's easier to think that, oh, if I just do this surgery, I'm gonna feel you know, it's gonna fix me.
• 49:31
  It doesn't work out.
• 49:33
  Absolutely.
• 49:35
  Yeah, it's a very um it's a really tough road.
• 49:40
  I think that um we've gotten here by trying to take the easy road.
• 49:47
  I love what you were saying about how we got here because we were loving people trying to be gentle with uh with our children and
• 50:00
  With people who have been through a lot of trauma, and the answer to that through transitioning is to affirm.
• 50:13
  But ultimately, in the long term, uh that intention to love and be kind is really backfiring into creating a false reality that's uh facilitating massive short and long-term struggles and health problems.
• 50:38
  And then it's based on the lies.
• 50:40
  It's like a house of cards and the house of cards, you know, just false completely.
• 50:46
  They say they have these studies that it show that if you don't affirm someone that they will commit suicide.
• 50:52
  However, all those studies are just based on complete lies.
• 50:56
  You if you look at them, not you don't even look that closely.
• 50:59
  They have like very tiny sample sizes.
• 51:02
  They are there, all their data is collected by like you know, surveys, you know, self-surveys.
• 51:08
  Uh, none of them have a control group.
• 51:10
  So none of them have a group of people who identify as trans, and two groups of identify as trans, and then one that they affirm and one that they don't affirm, and then they compare the outcomes.
• 51:19
  There's no study that shows that.
• 51:20
  So, how are we supposed to say, oh, the data is settled?
• 51:24
  Whenever they say the science is settled, we know there's a problem.
• 51:26
  We've heard that before, haven't we?
• 51:29
  Yeah.
• 51:30
  That's a really good point.
• 51:32
  Um it's the same, you know, like it's poor quality research, it's poor quality data to push agendas.
• 51:41
  It's so interesting the way that that cycle seems to repeat itself in this world.
• 51:47
  And what and I wonder part of me feels that again, this stuff happens because of the uh weakness in the individual's character that leads to the production of poor quality research that we accept as strong enough to push an agenda.
• 52:13
  It's so interesting, you know, that it's like you can see the ripple of the character weaknesses throughout every step of the puzzle in society with our with our failings.
• 52:28
  It's like it's almost like everything always comes back to like you said, this ego issue where we're giving away um our autonomy and we're becoming victims and we're affirming falsities, and it all kind of comes back to these root character flaws.
• 52:50
  Interesting.
• 52:51
  Yeah, it really is.
• 52:53
  You know, I wonder like how much the world would all change if we just put a little more attention into some of the qualities within ourselves as a species that have led to these bad decisions, repeated bad decisions.
• 53:11
  Yeah, well, and power corrupts.
• 53:14
  There are a lot of these studies uh have a lot of money and power behind them, and there that's how they can carry that out.
• 53:22
  I don't know if you heard um there was a big study carried out by this doctor named Dr.
• 53:27
  Joanna Olson Kennedy.
• 53:29
  She hid this the results of it.
• 53:31
  It was supposed to show she did the study on puberty blockers and supposed to show that puberty blockers are supposed to help the mental health outcomes for children.
• 53:41
  Well, her own study didn't show that she the results, and it was a very, very expensive like billion dollar study funded by tax dollars.
• 53:52
  She hid that results for 10 years and it finally got exposed last year.
• 53:57
  Oh my gosh.
• 53:59
  So power corrupts.
• 54:01
  So this is one of the backbone studies for puberty blockers.
• 54:05
  Yeah, they're trying to, you know, all this time they say that one, that puberty blockers are reversible.
• 54:10
  That's just ridiculous, but they say that, and people believe it because it's been parroted enough times.
• 54:16
  And then they also say that it's needed for the mental health of people who have some kind of gender distress.
• 54:21
  And usually young children who say they have gender distress, it's usually not their own gender distress, it's usually coming from the parent.
• 54:27
  Like it's usually some narcissistic parent that needs to have a trans child for social credits.
• 54:34
  So there's there's all kinds of ick around it.
• 54:38
  Wow.
• 54:39
  So deep.
• 54:41
  And it's so fascinating.
• 54:43
  Um, we've got about five minutes left.
• 54:48
  Um, as far as wrap-up statements, um, and then you know, where people can get a hold of you.
• 54:56
  Uh, what would you direct uh people towards to really find more truthful information about uh transitioning children and finding therapists or counselors who uh can support in healthier ways.
• 55:20
  Well, it just so happened that I wrote a book on that very topic.
• 55:25
  Um it's called A Practical Response to Gender Distress Tips and Tools for Families, and it breaks down all of the different lies that the trans activists use to trick people to believe that they need to transition their children, and it helps uh it's really about uh learning how to communicate with someone who is identifying as trans so that you're not just hitting a wall.
• 55:48
  Well, excellent.
• 55:49
  I'm gonna put you uh the link for consultation for you in the uh show notes for this show so that people can access it because that's a big thing that I think families need is just some direction in vulnerable moments in this day and age.
• 56:05
  And I just want to thank you so much for having the courage to uh speak truth into the world and um and create such valuable content in these moments.
• 56:17
  Uh you've you're doing such a great service to humanity with your work.
• 56:22
  So thank you so much for doing that, and thank you for coming on here to share it with my audience.
• 56:27
  Thank you.
• 56:28
  All right, and we'll see you all next time, folks, on the nurses report.
• 56:33
  Have a great day.
• 56:39
  It's time at this point.